trinque: that is actually a very apt description of the medicinal effect of #b-a
seraminta: get them
BingoBoingo: trinque: yes, while looking at agricultural price trends for the past two decades
BingoBoingo: First step to learn Bitcoin is to put shoe on head, in private, and balance it there for much time. Teaches discipline necessary to Bitcoin.
asciilifeform: what is the modern experimenter expected to make by hand ?
asciilifeform: strong's masterpiece, among many other useful things, explains how to make optical fibers (by hand, naturally)
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform aws can definitely not be part of our canonical stuff huh. << agreed. i'll continue to get my sea-legs with what I've got so far, but what we end up supporting in the end will be a gentoo on a bare-rails environment. unless any objections?
jurov: they will import (unwashed! what horror) eggs from elsewhere
mircea_popescu: o.O the stuff qntra newses ?!
scoopbot_revived: US Poultry and Egg Prices Headed To The Moon http://qntra.net/2015/05/us-poultry-and-egg-prices-headed-to-the-moon/
asciilifeform: (botnet mining today is a fart in the wind)
trinque: I don't buy that either
trinque: I mean this assumes whatever sub-groups within the thing haven't been mining on their botnets for years
trinque: any consumer product derpage would just be cover for turning on whatever computing power the NSA has at its disposal
asciilifeform: 'eco lobby' is a usg tentacle like any other.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, even then.
mircea_popescu: but whatever, i'm not here to provide strategic consultancy for free to "the titans of sv". fuck them sideways, they can go hire harlan ellison to do that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not if they spin it as 'out coin is donated to offset carbon credits for mother gaia' or whatnot
asciilifeform: these folks fill the holy trifecta of 1) won't notice 2) if notices, won't care 3) if cares, impotent to do anything
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski they didn't do their homework at all. they're a very easy target for the "eco" lobby, and will be murdered as they can't afford to pay those leeches.
asciilifeform: and if he notices - then what? idiots will quit tv ?
BingoBoingo: With the power consumption of most cable boxes an extra 20-40 watts would probably go unnoticed by consumer
pete_dushenski: 21 will still plunk their chips in vcr's because of install costs for customer
pete_dushenski: ah yes, the tileable mining floor
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 12:22:05; *: Adlai desperately hopes that '21' are trying to commoditize asic mining, rather than just another mining ktulu
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 19:27:50; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050103 << don't be ridiculous. for one thing, commodizing asic mining is a larger task than commodizing cpu arch. for the other, they're a fucking sv corp, they're not going to DO ANYTHING. just sit around and talk about shit. preferably at "conferences", or else "liveblog" it.
cazalla: i'd rather move her kilns and tanks into the garage and turn that room into a computing space tbh though lol
asciilifeform: (among other skills)
asciilifeform: for this and other reasons - not a bad time to learn glass.
asciilifeform: then we got 'pyrex'
asciilifeform: no one should be surprised at the length of the section devoted to glass. in that period, folks were expected to do 100% own glass.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: into the depths i go.
trinque: the marketing side bleeds into the content side if there ever was such a distinction in the first place
trinque: as is the whole category of such "news" outlets
mircea_popescu: tis in the logs!
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: what's your take on 21 and their race to toasterise mining ?
asciilifeform: usg claims ownership of the sun, moon, stars. orders the sea whipped. news at eleven.
asciilifeform: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-rich-mastered-the-art-of-investing-190205874.html << who paid for that one
asciilifeform: so what is the discussion even about.
pete_dushenski: "And for the love of technology, please set up a strong passcode." << what strong 4-digit passcode ?
pete_dushenski: who writes these headlines ?
pete_dushenski: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-watch-basically-hacker-proof-202725548.html << lulz. article goes on to mention all the ways apple watch isn't and couldn't be 'hacker proof'
mircea_popescu: he insultingly missed out the exact quote.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these usually specialize in selective quotation, rather than wholesale confabulation - but devil only knows.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aside the fact that deletant is pretty much a color revolutions expert in history rewriting, sure.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: hm i guess my hypothesis is that usg won't claim enough of remaining unmined btc to throw a wrench in the individual sovereignty of those in #b-a.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i am still curious re: your hypothesis. was it that usg will not claim the remaining unmined btc, or that it doing so is uninteresting to us ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently there's no russian note of this, at least on the web i see, but anyway : when patrascanu & co went to moscow to try and work out an armistice, molotov broke the drone with a very pointed "ce ati cautat la stalingrad ?"
asciilifeform: it is well-known that usg does. and that no such item makes it out of usa via the post unless usg wills it.
mircea_popescu: it's what the defeated side usually needs.
mircea_popescu: he will presumably need the same.
mircea_popescu: well, the romanians needed a peace that didn't consist of rape.
mircea_popescu: it's not like, oh, i need something from him. i don't. he needs shit from me, in the future, and he won't get it, and the reason is exactly right here.
mircea_popescu: dja know what stalin's representative told the romanian peace delegation after the war ?
mircea_popescu: the gall.
asciilifeform: and before, similar position also there
assbot: The White House Names Dr. Ed Felten as Deputy U.S. Chief Technology Officer | The White House ... ( http://bit.ly/1K73yJi )
mircea_popescu: does usg-effective mean "bitcoin needs a decision making process which a) doesn't include mp as we've been pretending was the case all along and b) overrepresents us, as we've idem" ?
SWARMsecret: the interwebs is a crazy place
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ok, then obtaining confirmations for said double-spend transaction ?
asciilifeform: (my 4 panels together eat about 100.)
asciilifeform: jurov: grid isn't pegged. not by a long shot. think of the whole affair as usg imposing a (comparatively, tiny) tax on its subjects with which to buy hash.
asciilifeform: speaking of which, there's a fella on 'ebay' claiming to sell new, virginal sony 21" trinitrons.
kakobrekla: there is always a chance for double spend, just a matter of how deep
jurov: asciilifeform: sry, my calculation is broken, it is 5W per 20 chips. but with the a/c and other overhead, can still be several times more
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: here's the test : within 12 months (or 12 years ?), the 'usg' will be unable to double-spend a bitcoin transaction.
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 19:16:48; lobbes: 'There’s a fairness issue involved here.' << there's that 'fair' trope again
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-05-2015#1130812 << damned straight. lazy, stupid dudes from africa should not get a salary, college degrees and free housing on the grounds that they're black.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i don't work with 'oh noez', but i like testable hypotheses
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: another problem with the "oh noes usg" card is that, as you well know, it's not monolithic. the infighting over any coins it gets its hands on will be considerable. and divisive.
mircea_popescu: so this stunner chick is working in a clothes shop. one day a guy comes in, goes straight for her,
trinque: asciilifeform: this is practically the salvation myth
jurov: asciilifeform: either your estimate expects 100W per household, or usd is not getting any significant poiece of cake
asciilifeform: trinque: it is simply the largest slave empire in history. sorta like egypt, or inca, with nukes.
trinque: I understand why people would want to think of the US as this fat, incapable beast that happened as some fluke
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: who leads ? i dunno. doesn't israel have some chip fab facilities ? other than that, china.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i'm trying to understand your counter here. is it that usg pocketing the last 1/3 of btc is not annoying? or that double-spends are not a problem ? or... what ?
trinque: lol working the land
pete_dushenski: showing up to the train station when the steam engine is but a distant memory and the caboose is over the horizon, with no other train on the schedule, means you either start building your own train (blockchain teckmologee) or you stfu and go back to working the land.
asciilifeform: jurov: if they're very creative, they'll have it rolled in with the 'tax-deductible' photovoltaic panel thing
asciilifeform: let's suppose 'everyone' - ru, cn - participates. and supposing the 'race is to the swift' - who leads?
asciilifeform: but i find it interesting that the buggers read the log and eventually learn something
jurov: actually is the 100W heat needs to be A/C'd out, it may end up 300-400watt per one box!
asciilifeform: shabby condition of transmission lines. but the 5-10W pales in comparison to the seasonal cycle when the ac units switch on
jurov: but i keep hearing how the grid is in shabby condition
jurov: asciilifeform: and where usg gets the extra terawatt?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu will probably suggest that cn, ru, etc. will follow suit with -their- tv boxes
pete_dushenski: and there's 7 billion mouths who want a bite.
trinque: that is not how generals speak to each other
pete_dushenski: in any event, if the usg ends up with 18% of hashrate, albeit briefly, and throwing the kitchen sink at the the thing in the process, it would be about time they did something so productive.
asciilifeform: see mircea_popescu's essay about 'they are fine with being late to parties, they know they can steal the cake whenever'
trinque: "victory is inevitable" is what you tell the soldiers, sure
asciilifeform: but let's suppose the conscript miners are for proper btc
asciilifeform: whether one cares - is a matter of taste
pete_dushenski: so the usg'd have 18% in this scenario.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i meant, for the prediction of increase
trinque: it's worth noting that anyone making declarations that come true is using his *power* to make them so
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: what is the basis for this prediction ?
trinque: as people would like their declarations alone to move reality
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: and what other player will catch up with this, do you suppose, and how ?
pete_dushenski: then we're at 200 mn gh/s in a year from now.
asciilifeform: there are no shadowy factories
trinque: well what I'm saying is they do both
asciilifeform: trinque: the elegance is that nothing is kept secret
trinque: the consumer product could just be cover for it
trinque: who will claim the NSA doesn't already have a metric shitload of potential hashing power to apply to this problem?
asciilifeform: i can even see the cable becoming 'phreee'
asciilifeform: why half? they upgrade codecs, 'new signal is not compatible,' want cable - gotta accept (phree!!111!!) new box.
pete_dushenski: so by this time in 2016 the usg has 10 mn gh/s at its disposal.
pete_dushenski: does that change the 10 mn figure ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: let's imagine that the only participating firm is comcast
pete_dushenski: and that they manage to deploy 10 mn units within 12 months from today.
pete_dushenski: let's say that these things are hashing at even 1 gh/s
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: so let's do the math.
cazalla: channel ban list is there for all to see anyway so why ask me
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, he isn't even in the new wot
asciilifeform: jurov: you could rate him and he could then speak, no ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: the stupid ones. the govs intent on slitting their own throats, sure.
cazalla: now as much as i love the ol' Vexual, i admit he does like to chat a lot and often makes no sense but by banning him, we now get to enjoy it on a more personal level via pm :P
cazalla: jurov, because we don't tolerate drunken behaviour around these parts!
pete_dushenski: trinque: depends entirely who it is making the declarative statements.
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 20:58:30; jurov: then maybe he prefers interviewing folks individually
trinque: pete_dushenski: the declaration of a thing is not what makes it so
pete_dushenski: trinque: bitcoin declares victory until proven otherwise ;)
asciilifeform: after this, the natural thing to do from hitler's point of view is - to go after conventional miners
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: sure, but this is hardly the way to go about it. even if it's all they've got left.
pete_dushenski: these things will hash like 500 mh/s
pete_dushenski: ok, so mebbe it doesn't burn houses down, and mebbe everyone has a half dozen of these chips wedged into their various appliances...
asciilifeform: for non-u.s. folks - if you subscribe to cable tv, you get the mandatory box. no choice about it.
pete_dushenski: trinque: then think it :D
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the only actual problem they will have is fighting over the coin itself.
pete_dushenski: "but if we have ENOUGH slingshots and they're government mandated"
pete_dushenski: by the time they roll these out and get them into any appreciable number of homes, it'll look like trying to fight the nazis by arming every american with slingshots
asciilifeform: it'll be in his cable box, tv, etc. whether he likes, or not
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the beauty is that no one will ask the chump if he wants to cover the costs
pete_dushenski: i doubt even 25% of mining profits will cover the electricity costs.
trinque: so you just end up with a cryptoturd chip built into the intel processors, and you can't get other processors
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: burn their houses down how? these won't be packaged as traditional miners, recall. it'll be in cable boxes, etc. that folks get 1 or 2 of
pete_dushenski: because a few 'early adopters' will jump on board, burn their houses down, and the thing'll fizzle out
asciilifeform: it is precisely the kind of scam which has endurance.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: why not? classic, grade-a chumpatron. the actual costs (mains power) are 100% externalized to the chumps.
trinque: asciilifeform: I'd expect some broken off appendage of the NSA to accumulate a sizable stash of coin even if the rest of the USG falls apart
pete_dushenski: it's like the smartwatch idea.
asciilifeform: trinque: they read the 2013 #b-a log and accepted mircea_popescu's assertion that they will have problems keeping mining secret
trinque: so being a part of the NSA botnet goes from top secret to productized
asciilifeform: essentially, they wanted to pocket 100% of the miner output while throwing occasional bones to the idiot chumpers
asciilifeform: 'In the example, one user is able to use his BTC to skip 15 minutes of commercials on online video service Hulu.' << this is just too many lulz
trinque: lol, the houses around here are half a million or more
asciilifeform: 'By the time its chips were to be embedded into Internet of Things (IoT) devices, 21 projected its cost to produce 1 BTC could be as low as $7.45.' << somebody does not grasp difficulty factor ?
asciilifeform: jurov: that's for folks with choices. at the time i would've taken a job filleting the last remaining pandas with knives made from baby bones
asciilifeform: 'According to the overview, the BitSplit chip's key innovation was intended to be a hardcoded bitcoin wallet address that would give the user 25% of mining proceeds, with the remaining 75% going to 21. Each device would be built with target applications in mind that would then allow consumers to, in theory, spend any bitcoin earned for online content or digital services.'
jurov: they would have hard time to rationalize the money if it was not connected to some do-gooding, moving and shaking
asciilifeform: 'Also included in the overview is an email exchange allegedly taking place between Comcast West Coast strategic development managing director Francisco Varela and 21 CEO Matt Pauker in which the cable giant exec evaluates how its customers could benefit from participating in 21s bitcoin mining operations.' << aha, cable boxes.
asciilifeform: re: '21' etc >> 'The cornerstone of the strategy as presented would have been the release of consumer products that would turn power from wall sockets into bitcoin through the widespread dissemination of bitcoin mining chips.' << -somebody- clearly reads the 2013 #b-a logs.
asciilifeform: jurov: and money (yes, the rotten greenback fiat kind) works wonders.
asciilifeform: and articles like this, https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/jbonneau/be-wary-of-one-time-pads-and-other-crypto-unicorns which is a kind of 'mouse poison' in the sense that it combines perfectly valid observation 'don't use random bozo's java crypto turd' with 'one time pads cannot work'
asciilifeform: was a genuine annoyance to usg, in the courts, press, net
asciilifeform: this fella used to be the 'genuine article'
trinque: that's forward thinking of the white house!
asciilifeform: 'As deputy, Felten will report to former Google exec Megan Smith, the recently named White House CTO.'
assbot: Southern California Business Raided Over Alleged Altcoin Gambling ... ( http://bit.ly/1cxQLS2 )
jurov: then maybe he prefers interviewing folks individually
jurov: poor Vexual now sitting every day outside before the gate, if someone drops a word or a bone
trinque: t4nk: you're polluting the channel with joins and quits; kindly cut it out.
trinque: "The president called Saudi Arabia a critical partner in the fight against Islamic State militants." << yes, I suppose making sure ISIS exists is critical to the fight against ISIS.
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/13/us-usa-gulf-idUSKBN0NY28U20150513 << seems the equalitarian president can't acknowledge what an insult it is for the king to send his inferiors to meet him
trinque: they're children; even their totalitarian day-dreams amount to "uh uh you can't tweet mean things about us!"
trinque: The package of powers, first proposed in March, would allow courts to force a person to send their tweets and Facebook posts to the police for approval.
jurov: “For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone',”
assbot: Britain is too tolerant and should interfere more in people's lives, says David Cameron - UK Politics - UK - The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1PH5OFv )
trinque: "Both services often find it useful to engage in public feuds ‘to cover their asses’, as the retired official put it, but they continually share intelligence used for drone attacks, and co-operate on covert operations."
assbot: Seymour M. Hersh · The Killing of Osama bin Laden · LRB 21 May 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1K6Ia76 )
trinque: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden << "The Saudis feared if we knew we would pressure the Pakistanis to let bin Laden start talking to us about what the Saudis had been doing with al-Qaida. And they were dropping money – lots of it."
trinque: it's easy to see that a culture which even considers "fair" a thing runs the risk of totalitarianism
trinque: "fair" may be one of the most narcissistic concepts in American "thinking"
trinque: no need to ban the word though; bitcoin will reduce it to ridicule
chetty: fair is the one word I might agree should be banned
assbot: Obama Dismisses The Wealthy As 'Society's Lottery Winners' | The Daily Caller ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBGujX )
mircea_popescu: lol jgarzik has a point. the difference between krugman and kaminska is slight at best. i'm not even sure what exactly it would be, specifically.
mircea_popescu: not that women can't do it, but it's an intensive thing and the atmosphere on a porn set is not exactly conducive.
mircea_popescu: tbh, most of the "squirting" porn is actually urination.
trinque: secure messaging solves the thing
asciilifeform: reduces, in the end, to 'gossipd'
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> anyway, this entire "send kids to oxbridge" meme is very novel, and it comes off the same trunk that made the "buy uk football teams". << i've always planned to hire tutors.
trinque: or so the idiot claims
trinque: because then I could control something connected to a computer remotely, and be sure that the machine controlling it was only accepting data from me
trinque: gpg encrypted file goes into one of the storage devices, gets decrypted and written to the other device
trinque: I was thinking you could connect two systems this way and still consider them gapped
trinque: I was wondering if I'd run across yet another thing that'd been done far earlier than I thought.
asciilifeform: 'when the output actually mattered: the bygone era of dependable computing' (book does not exist, aborted project of mine)
mircea_popescu: "Like so many, I planned to do many things with this. But I never had the time. Now I don't have the ideas, either."
asciilifeform recommends 'inside the as/400' (frank soltis) re: ibm design 'philosophy' in practice
mircea_popescu recalls the 31/32 bit thing could actually address an infinity of memory, in 2gb slicesa
mircea_popescu: os/390, then z/ system. which was... 15 years ago.
asciilifeform: even the laptops were spiffy
mircea_popescu: ah, the great days from before osama had sunk the us. back when ibm was actually making business machines.
asciilifeform: (theo de raadt, of course)
asciilifeform: what would be involved in virtualizing it, and if it was so simple, we would not still be fixing bugs in the exact same area in our operating system going on 12 years.'
asciilifeform: 'While x86 hardware has the same page-protection hardware that an IBM 390 architecture machine has, modern PC machines are a mess. They are architecturally so dirty, that parts of the video, keyboard, and other IO devices are interfaced with even to do simple things like context switching processes and handling interrupts. Those of us who have experience with the gory bits of the x86 architecture can clearly say that we know
mircea_popescu: thisis why people even have kids in the first place.
mircea_popescu: the way people explore new bushes today is, send kids over, see what happens.
mircea_popescu: the way people explored new bushes 50k years ago was sent children to eat them, see if they die.