mircea_popescu: what do you mean what's it ~do~ ? it's exactly like highschool sex, it doesn't ~do~ anything, except in the estimation of the boys who haven't yet.
asciilifeform: hrm so what's 'defection' actually ~do~ to them ? seems then that it's rather like firing pistol into slime mold
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever find out whether that branch tentacle ended up closing shop on acct of the escape ?
mircea_popescu: you realise, currently the stopper on "legislating" is that the few available interns whose brains permit the activity simply can't copy/paste at a faster rate ?
mircea_popescu: you really ~can't imagine~ how threadbare the reich insides are.
mircea_popescu: it's well dented lol. their whore hr was ~this girl.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-13 23:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform specifically : a) female b) moving away from femstate to c) patriarchy [where to happily live in d) new status and e) social media announcement of this that f) really insanely bothers femstate remnants]
asciilifeform: strictly re chix -- in '90s chechen harems filled up with chix from ru, on exactly same scheme of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895936 . but 'social media'ism not invented yet then, so the publication crown afaik goes to mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's extended meatwot, there was a greybeard d00d who agreed, in 1980s, to leave a u.s. semiconductor co and chair a jp one. (but was eventually lured back, quietly)
a111: Logged on 2019-02-14 00:00 mircea_popescu: head of nominally private raytheon nevertheless will defect to great acclaim.
asciilifeform: on top of this, backbone of bureaucracy is reddit-fat / old bags, these are safe from mircea_popescuation as i understand
asciilifeform: ( i suppose could empty it of chix, if there were 9000 mircea_popescu's , but there's exactly 1, at least in my light cone )
asciilifeform: to rewrite the eqn, how many nicoleci's would mircea_popescu have to lure off, to visibly dent the thing
mircea_popescu: "creating the future" or whatever the fuck. it's 100% as much crown as ye olde Министерство монтажных и специальных строительных работ СССР.
asciilifeform: mega-supplier of golden toilet. same folx who e.g. conned the ministry of subway trains into buying $maxint 'detectors' ( that later all thrown out, ~homeopathic )
mircea_popescu: "if you look closer, you will see them"
mircea_popescu: if the makers of the reich's airport security theatre crystal globes don't count as crown to ye...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the relation between "official" and "defector" is in your head because as it happened to work in the soviet union, all jobs were state jobs. the new soviet pretends "private", and so you can have non-officials that are nevertheless defectors.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-18 16:52 mircea_popescu: what've "they" fucking accomplished yet, with their ever-so-clever scapegoating merry-go-round ? economy flats around the ugliest, shittiest town in all of europe, and 12yos who'd rather be raped & set on fire by pakis than talk to "her majesty"'s clerks ?
mircea_popescu: this harsh reality whereby "nobody gives a shit about your '''career''' bs and she'd much rather http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888192
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform specifically : a) female b) moving away from femstate to c) patriarchy [where to happily live in d) new status and e) social media announcement of this that f) really insanely bothers femstate remnants]
a111: Logged on 2019-02-13 21:36 BingoBoingo: In other updates, selection working on Pizarro wordpress. Copy on the main page http://pizarroisp.net/#selection-65.0-119.32 contact page http://pizarroisp.net/contact/#selection-11.0-23.151 with ARM Server page added http://pizarroisp.net/arm-dedicated-servers/
asciilifeform: the particular meatbag ? or general case
mircea_popescu: as these things usually go ; i shall limit self to pointing out that time the ny times copied my paywall model.
mircea_popescu: and the bar for enough is dropping each day.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-13 20:49 asciilifeform: 'the Cyber Conspirators created a Facebook account that purported to belong to a USIC employee and former colleague of Witt, and which utilized legitimate information and photos from the USIC employee’s actual Facebook account. This particular fake account caused several of Witt’s former colleagues to accept “friend” requests' << lol! defectors aint what they usedto be...
mircea_popescu: speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895820 there's of course the http://trilema.com/2018/the-leak/#selection-361.64-365.46 lulz.
mircea_popescu: this defecting "to the civil society" or w/e snowden tried blew up spectacularly, when it comes right down to it there's no civil society left in the socialist gulags.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo seems like the designated victims already in the logs. plox to produce payload for spamtron and post for nitpick.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-13 20:43 BingoBoingo: While Snowden was defecting to no where in particular, it turns out other people were defecting to somewhere
a111: Logged on 2014-11-03 20:19 mircea_popescu: also, anyone own aged/trusted accounts on BlackHatWorld TrafficPlanet WarriorForum DigitalPoint SitePoint they might wish to sell or share ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i get this part. the q is , where is the equiv of fetlife that is to get this treatment.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-28 22:27 mircea_popescu: and i do mean ~every single last one~. i talk to every single chick on fetlife, meaning EVERY SINGLE ONE. that's the job of existence. nothing else passes muster.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 19:26 mircea_popescu: i expect if attempted it'll immediately run into the same problem pizarro is encountering, whereas bois will do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER, no matter how patently stupid and laughing impending beheading in the face, just as long as it's NOT "talk to a lot of people".
mircea_popescu: i understand why the "i'd like to talk to as few people as possible" is appealing to the fucktard^H engineer mindset. nevertheless, the only way to win this is to have the decisionmaking atomized as much as possible.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to expand this binomial for asciilifeform -- who are 'the individuals' ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-22 17:18 weevlos: trinque: we are a media publication. our power and capital comes from the number of visitors we have to the site. we aim to transform through culture. if normal people cannot visit our site we are not accomplishing our goal
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you will absolutely not get anywhere for as long as you continue with the braindamaged approach of trying to talk to their self-appointed "gatekeepers". do not talk to weev or w/e, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756992 braindamage ; talk to the individual individuals,.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895817 << pretty fucking lulzy. the "platform" / "social media" etc was SUCH A SUCCESS, for the first time in history us brass defecting to fucking iran.
mircea_popescu: "so now they owe me"
a111: Logged on 2019-02-13 19:06 asciilifeform: 'Facebook, Twitter and Google are actively restricting conservative content through biased algorithms. Silicon Valley doesn't want you to read our articles. Bypass the censorship, sign up for our newsletter now!' << BingoBoingo write'em a mail ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895814 << no but see, the thing eminently IS NOT that they have something to say. the thing is, that they misperceive there's a dole going on, that they're excluded from. their idea specifically is very much in the line of http://trilema.com/2011/antreprenorii-sanisedeie/ and so on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these folx seem to have a psychiatrically-classical 'царь-батюшка' imaginary friendship w/ trump
mircea_popescu: write fucking blogs, what "platforming". the sort of cuck that expects "president trump" to make him exist is just an alt-flavour transgender dork.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-13 19:05 asciilifeform: 'Tarrio believes that unless President Donald Trump steps in, the de-platforming and dehumanizing of conservatives will continue. “He needs to step in, not only because if he doesn’t he will lose in 2020 with all of his supporters being kicked off social media, but because it’s the right thing to do,” Tarrio finishes.' << lol!!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895813 << eh, what a fucking stupid idea. nobody wants anything with "social media", let the socialist tards & my bots have it.
diana_coman: it would have at most the path I suppose, if it's hardcoded somewhere
asciilifeform: no, and i'ma look on the build box
diana_coman: well, that doesn't have the scripts too, does it?
asciilifeform: ( in the built gnat )
asciilifeform: the only hit is x86_64-linux-musl/share/info/mpc.info -- a readme
diana_coman: i.e. where/if the trouble is not somehow just on my machine (though I got it on 2 machines...)
diana_coman: on hold atm since a. for sjlj on smg.test yes, need gnat rebuild b. for the rest it's unclear if it's worth to run or which ones so rather pending mircea_popescu feedback
asciilifeform: ( or are these on hold pending gnat rebuild ? )
asciilifeform: of the remaining runs
diana_coman: the output?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: sleep, and i expect the output will come out before you wake up. meanwhile i'ma see if i can figure out wtf re the paths.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it's been a bit of a long day too, sorry; strictly speaking you are in fact right there: that line compares them yes,if only to stress that "ofc they are different"
asciilifeform: as i understand that's the 1 thing that's expected to slow
diana_coman: at least there are no more surprises of huge differences in timings; but I'd still test also with some exception handling since that's supposed to slow sjlj down
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: after mircea_popescu nitpicks, perhaps this oughta be used as a template for others
diana_coman: sorry, the ref to previous mess wasn't quite clear, you're right
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Dispatch sent via hEathenMAIL, content http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0crQm/?raw=true
diana_coman: there was the earlier mess-up with the 2 datasets hence my current stress of the fact, that's all
a111: Logged on 2019-02-13 18:41 diana_coman: anyways, I'll compile the dataset and publish it in a bit
diana_coman: coming back to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895807 aka http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1esL2/?raw=true if it converges, it seems to be diff on diff machines+diff gnat; I might note also ftr that the times there on very short runs (i.e. a few loops) are not reliable ; other than that though, so far with this test there doesn't seem to be much penalty on having sjlj
asciilifeform: whythefuq do they even include, the gimped 'zcx' variant, then.. ( aside from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895611 isms)
diana_coman: yes and moreover weirdly enough it DOES have the correct one too, but it comes only after the wrong/old one and so it fails 'cause it can't find that
diana_coman: specifically, here's an example (with the path marked by me for clarity): build/build-bootstrap/gcc-4.9.adacore2016/build1/mpc/src/libmpc.la:dependency_libs=' OLD_PATH/lib/libgmp.la NEW_PATH_CORRECT/lib/libgmp.la'
diana_coman: it seems to me that it's just a path/configure that remains /is carried over from where the gnat was built
diana_coman: I guess until now I always built ave1's gnat on a machine that had adacore's gnat installed with all the paths to libs like that quite standard so possibly that's why it never failed
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform was not able to build a working x64 gnat from the arm64 gnat )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this may even be the culprit behind ( still unresolved afaik ) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-03#1820460
diana_coman: since it seems it'll take a while until I can add to my data the numbers for sjlj on ave1's gnat as well, here's what I have so far: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1esL2/?raw=true
diana_coman: the script to rebuild ran?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is quite puzzling, esp. since i've built ave1's gnat on 1 box, and since copied to handful of others, on each into an entirely diff dir
BingoBoingo: More to be done on the website, but ready to move on to writing that email to the dissidents for asciilifeform
BingoBoingo: In other updates, selection working on Pizarro wordpress. Copy on the main page http://pizarroisp.net/#selection-65.0-119.32 contact page http://pizarroisp.net/contact/#selection-11.0-23.151 with ARM Server page added http://pizarroisp.net/arm-dedicated-servers/
diana_coman: t shows that it is looking for them in the wrong place and more specifically in the place where they were on the previous system where the working gnat was built! so hm, where and why does it store that path and how do I point it correctly?
diana_coman: ave1 or anyone else more experienced in rebuilding ave1's gnat with a previous incarnation of same: I'm trying to build using the scripts in ada-musl-cross-2018-09-24.tgz on a machine that has as only existing and perfectly working !) gnat a previous ave1 gnat version; I ran as the readme says simply ./build-ada.sh absolute_path_to_dir but the whole thing fails because it doesn't find some libs such as libgmp.la; a closer look at the outpu
asciilifeform: ( granted, they also selectively hire for this, even so much as having been off the reservation counts against candidate. but this is imho strictly secondary. )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, hard to say from here what seekrits she handed over that they don't want to print. Hence the focus on Facebook tardism.
asciilifeform spend yrs in the unfortunate company of erry known species of usgtard , and came to conclusion that the principal 'limiting reactant' for defections is... they ain't got where to. ~nobody outside the amerigulag needs ~any of'em for anyffin.
asciilifeform: 'the Cyber Conspirators created a Facebook account that purported to belong to a USIC employee and former colleague of Witt, and which utilized legitimate information and photos from the USIC employee’s actual Facebook account. This particular fake account caused several of Witt’s former colleagues to accept “friend” requests' << lol! defectors aint what they usedto be...
BingoBoingo: While Snowden was defecting to no where in particular, it turns out other people were defecting to somewhere
asciilifeform: 'Facebook, Twitter and Google are actively restricting conservative content through biased algorithms. Silicon Valley doesn't want you to read our articles. Bypass the censorship, sign up for our newsletter now!' << BingoBoingo write'em a mail ?
asciilifeform: 'Tarrio believes that unless President Donald Trump steps in, the de-platforming and dehumanizing of conservatives will continue. “He needs to step in, not only because if he doesn’t he will lose in 2020 with all of his supporters being kicked off social media, but because it’s the right thing to do,” Tarrio finishes.' << lol!!
diana_coman: anyways, I'll compile the dataset and publish it in a bit
diana_coman: at that specific shot I was exploring esp given the previous issue of "too long time"
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I found the key misunderstanding there (in addition to comparing different machines and all that): the 1.25value is when serpent is fully optimised for time i.e. it goes from ~8s to 1.25 for full 22 loops 1..10, mod 4; sorry for the confusion there, I was still in exploration mode.
diana_coman: anyways, back to it: for one thing you were comparing there numbers from different machines and I get the impression you got the "4 runs" in the 2nd report to mean different loops while they were not (it was same thing, repeated)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in unrelated lulz, http://trilema.com/2014/website-thou-art-lol/#selection-423.92-423.100 (believe it or not, "affirmed" is a term of art in the context, that's how cuntmagic works, by "affirmation".)
a111: Logged on 2019-01-03 19:24 stratum: Right now, for the billions, I think it is probably better than nothing, just like easily popped household locks.
mircea_popescu: did i ever link the obvious http://trilema.com/2018/post-malone/#selection-79.0-205.38 answer to the obvious if commonplace http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-03#1884205 idiocy ? i think not, and it'd be a waste.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is why i like 'run 9000 shots, and discard outliers' (granted this only applies when the item is expected to go in constant time, goes without saying)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that a set of up to 200s converged, and then a 1 1/4 s item diverged.
asciilifeform: ( depending on what you got in there )
asciilifeform doesn't like benchmarks where 1 shot takes moar than coupla min, for the reason that unix box is a shitfest, liable to decide 'hey nao is the time to munge the fs' etc. and suddenly eat cpu for multiple min, whenever
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly was 'the peak of insanity'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally and unrelatedly, since i'm fixing this other article : do you happen to recall the trilema piece where "middle age crisis" ie, dood getting rid of older wife hooking up with younger girl is explained in terms of "well, she won't be as fucking annoying" ?
asciilifeform: ( why -- cannot say until diana_coman returns with brief description of the irons )
asciilifeform: i'ma guess box ground to a halt during the 5-loops run, for a spell
mircea_popescu: right. point being, she did 1 to 5 loop sets of that, and the values converged.
asciilifeform: that's quite a few, even if you had nuffin in the middle of it
asciilifeform: so yes if you make 22, then 50 ^ 22
mircea_popescu: alright. and if there's 22 for loops, this means the correct count of "how many times serpent is run" is 50 ^ 22 then ?
asciilifeform: there are 50 even #s b/w 1 and 100 incl.
mircea_popescu: do me a favour first and let's nail the numbers down. so, for 1 to 100 if mod 2 results in the loop being run 50 times ? or 49 ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman , when come back, plox to briefly describe the box
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, we found i can't math ; that aside, we found that in one context serpent takes ~3us, and in another ~0.3us.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-10 14:08 asciilifeform: aaand to round off : it vanished on the test box also. culprit appears to have been a running raid-verify job...
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu : all of above is still just the baseline (no longjmpism) case ?
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-iv/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part IV.
mircea_popescu: we are currently entering the loop twice, and we enter a total of 22 loops. therefore the number of times serpent is run is 2 ^ 22.
mircea_popescu: is this faux convergence then ?
mircea_popescu: except the other set converged, look : 3.37786e-06 2.8855032e-06 2.812888584e-06 2.8384e-06 2.81584e-06
diana_coman: and both of them are likely to be more due to measurement error
mircea_popescu: this is degree of magnitude off, somehow. wanna walk through the math with me ?
mircea_popescu: on the basis of the previous timings you reported, we estimated it ~2.8 microseconds
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the problem is this : on the basis of this last run, we're estimating serpent to take 0.3 microseconds.
diana_coman: because the clock thing is not very precise; on 4 runs of same thing I got: 1.25, 1.27, 1.29, 1.28
mircea_popescu: there's something amiss here.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think her work above provides us with some useful data : it turns out it is reasonable to expect timings converge for measured intervals of at least 1/3 of a second, on the basis of the above.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman seems it stabilizes after 3 loops or so, if you look, it's within a few % with .007s and pretty much there at 0.35s
diana_coman: trouble is that it might be too fast for the sort of timing precision we have
diana_coman: on the slower machine too
diana_coman: a to j aka 10 loops from 1 to 10 only and then with if mod 4 -> 0.000855 s (no long jmp)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman idea was to go twice per loop, rather than 1nce. 2 will go in too many times still
diana_coman: see the timings above for 1-4 loops for some concrete idea
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you'll have to abort it, reduce the loops significantly. sorry bout that.
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
diana_coman: it's of course not exactly surprising, given that one goes from 50 serpent executions to 50mn rather quickly
diana_coman: 5 loops is already 15 minutes and ftr 6 loops is still running on that machine as we speak - by the looks of it, it'll be more than 1 hour
diana_coman: for completeness: the set of data above is from a different machine hence a bit faster than those of yest
diana_coman: hence my original only 3 loops really; but mircea_popescu asked for the full set of 23 loops so there it is, still running
diana_coman: so I'll post the testing code with full set of loops in a bit and then go and set up another run too
diana_coman: I think a gradual approach (i.e. run it & record results gradually increasing the number of loops) might be useful meanwhile
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895610 -> fwiw the thing is..still running given the full set of loops
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-vi/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part VI.
mircea_popescu: somehow the whole http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+%22opposable%22 slash http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+%22opposability%22 item just not native to most heads.
asciilifeform remembers the roosh-v d00d, but for something quite else, iirc it was him who at one pt had asciilifeform's www linked as -- insultingly but lulzily -- 'the mencius moldbug of computing'
mircea_popescu: for some reason i never named him in there.
asciilifeform: (~= 'the fuck you'll ever leave this shithole')
asciilifeform: or, say, pelevin's orcs sing their 'traditional folk song', 'Из этой жопы хуй уедешь'
asciilifeform: ( so far impression is, roughly similar to '80s su, tho with ~less~ obv. leakage of suppressed laffter through the pg , oddly , i expected moar )
asciilifeform: it's funny , when asciilifeform went to 'museum of communism' in timis, pawed through buncha ancient lulzlit there, and photo'd 'a la minox' to read through laters and chew on the 'limba de lemn'
mircea_popescu: in ro the expression'd be rather negative, "i got nothing". cuz "o pula" works also as universal negation, "do you have any money ?" "i got dick"
asciilifeform: am o pula << i automatically recalled the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-21#1486093 rhyme
asciilifeform: asciilifeform often points out that we have buffer overflows on acct of the iron having nfi what 'integer', 'character', 'string', 'code' are , just pushes untagged words around; but it is also the reason why we have e.g. thread deadlocks (on an iron which 'knows' when yer e.g. assigning a variable, deadlock is ~impossible)
asciilifeform: imho it is a curse on programming folx, that spackling seems to work as well as it does, really it is the equiv of eating 'tasty' pb paint chips, leads to grief always
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 19:10 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking about it -- 'zxc' strikes me as a classic case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191 and impedence mismatch generally. it was clearly written as attempt to 'deterministic scheduler on ??? iron/os', but fails, cuz you can't actually spackle away impedence mismatch b/w the underlying platform and the proggy
a111: Logged on 2015-03-12 01:50 asciilifeform: 'mil-std-1750a' for the curious.
asciilifeform: there's a lulzy 'pentagon standard' one, the name presently escapes me, iirc it is in the log tho
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 23:03 bvt: asciilifeform: sure, cpp code won't be instrumented. the 'polled' mode was iirc in the guts of the ancient linux threads implementation.
asciilifeform: tricky to even answer this definitively, the conventional debug facility is shite for thrds
mircea_popescu: possibru. not clear at all what's going on in there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't specifically know, but suspect that the eggog happens when parent thread dies and (for moment) the children keep fandangoing
mircea_popescu: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting/#selection-263.0-263.78 << rather agreed.
mircea_popescu: but seems he ALSO found a race condition in the handlers ?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 16:10 asciilifeform: in e.g. airplane, 'exception' should mean that the entire comp shuts down and transfers control to 1 of the hot spare duplicates.
asciilifeform: the avionics people seem to use it, but they (near as i was able to learn) dun kill tasks at all, and regard any detected wedge as a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895456 condition
asciilifeform: imho zcx isn't actually of use on the current gnat, at all
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if (and only if) yer scheduler actually runs on the naked iron, a 'polled' sys gives ~less~ nondeterminism than a fully asynchronous one. but nobody's got this iron of yet.
mircea_popescu: if there's a mechanism in computing that's supposed to be push not pull, that's exceptions. can't fucking have a pull mechanism for exception handling, and i see 0 gaisn from moving the honest braindamage of "if ZCX_By_Default then return;" into an elaborately & contrivedly hidden same exact thing.
mircea_popescu: re polling and in particular http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting/#selection-197.0-197.47 : i fucking loathe the idea.
bvt: it won't we poll-killable if the whole loop is in cpp/asm. if just a linear code - should not be too bad; sjlj should still work better.
asciilifeform: errr, where yer proggy (rather than gnat) is on naked irons
asciilifeform: pollism may be suitable for an embedded sys, where gnat is running on naked irons, and the entire contents of the machine was built in 1 shot in the same gnat. but errywhere else it imho is liable to break.
asciilifeform: bvt: rright. my observation is, it aint suitable for a general-purpose kill switch , the prob orig. posed by mircea_popescu , cuz polled mode can only give ability to kill items which 'agreed' to be killable
bvt: asciilifeform: sure, cpp code won't be instrumented. the 'polled' mode was iirc in the guts of the ancient linux threads implementation.
asciilifeform: 'polled' mode seems to resemble the 'cooperative multitasking' found on ancient crapple and win9x
asciilifeform: bvt: my reasoning is based on the docs description of how implemented. but certainly worth a test, if anyone can be arsed ( given the 'all loops gotta be doctored' thing, my understanding is that 'polled' proggy would choke if wedges inside a cppism )
bvt: may be. tbh i don't think i can reason on this q based on only the test code.
asciilifeform: bvt: whole point of multithreadism is to spread out the cpu-bulky work over cores, so i expect most cycles would be spend inside where enabled
asciilifeform: not to mention, the s.mg folx invoke external cppisms , and these won't have poll markers inside'em no matter what you do
asciilifeform: currently i suspect that polling (even if can be made to work errywhere) will be 9000x moar expensive than longjmpism ( the latter only adds to cost of exceptions, the former -- to ~all~ loops )
bvt: no, they explicitly tell in the docs that you have to rebuild the runtime to use it on other systems
bvt: yes, the only reason i did not switch yet is the convenience of m-c-m for development (i.e. getting i386 and aarch64 builds ready using it took me a few minutes of config time)
asciilifeform: afaik there is exactly 0 win from gcc5+, and plenty of lose.
bvt: built myself, based on ave1s patches and musl-cross-make (https://github.com/richfelker/musl-cross-make/ , i had some experience with it so did the work rather quickly).
asciilifeform: gcc5 breakage extends into the Ada world << noshit, if yer on a gcc5istic gnat, all bets are off, they fucked the back end
asciilifeform: bvt: re the pragma polling bit : abort aint instantaneous, whereas the if A(I)'Terminated ... item happens immediately
bvt: ^ i got some really weird results here, would appreciate if someone tested the last snippet (constraint_error) on ave1's gnat.
BingoBoingo: (MAUs), this would make Reddit's average revenue per user (ARPU) about $0.30." From the report: "
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in the Heathen Studies department: "Reddit's latest funding round values its users at a lower price than any other social network. "The company announced Monday it had raised $300 million in its Series D investment round at a valuation of $3 billion," reports CNBC. "CNBC previously reported the company's annual revenue topped $100 million, according to sources familiar with the matter, and at 330 million monthly active users
BingoBoingo: Well with Trump's increasingly disappointing performance as "best clown in the circus"...
BingoBoingo: trinque: ty, Gotta keep the office of losers connected to Hillarity
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if select thing worked you could just put that link in the !!billing
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: couldja plox add the billing calendar (with the hash-pseudonymised subscriber names from earlier) to the public www ? so folx dun have to ask why they're being billed at time t and for what << We have customer accounts here on the public www http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/ listed just below the price points. I have been updating it as part of compiling the statements. I don't recall if I pass out
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 06:29 phf: asciilifeform: there's also sgi machines with their famously well built x11 implementation. i believe there's no source for that one though
a111: Logged on 2019-01-10 14:08 asciilifeform: aaand to round off : it vanished on the test box also. culprit appears to have been a running raid-verify job...
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In early february you paid the Janaury invoice issued in Janaury. It's the case you've come into post paying, but on the strength of your being mircea_popescu I have not found reason to be alarmed or fuss.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: ( 1 moar reason why i'd like that msdos cross-gnat.. on msdos, the wall clock time is invariant )
mircea_popescu: i do not believe larger experiment gets drowned. on the contrary, larger experiment ~drowns the churn~.
asciilifeform: it's perfectly good, but to get decent resolution you end up needing gigantic # of repeats ( and unixism machine churn begins to drown the signal )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you propose the init=clock end=clock method no good ?
asciilifeform: ( so as to get actual ticktimes for this & other empiricals )
mircea_popescu: might need some fiddling to get the numbers right, this one might only grow still. but anyways.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: couldja plox add the billing calendar (with the hash-pseudonymised subscriber names from earlier) to the public www ? so folx dun have to ask why they're being billed at time t and for what
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is the case i am actually postpaying rather than prepaying here and so early feb i actually paid for jan ?
BingoBoingo will add "concrete period" instead of billing cycle to the invoicing worksheet
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not, there are ancient moldy irons without interrupt controllers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: good chance to fill the stack
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 18:27 diana_coman: hence I wanted to actually add some handlers in there and see but atm it's still working on the full run loops-only so will see after that
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895474 << i suppose the next test is a multicall, keep calling two procedures from each other and returning randomly.
BingoBoingo: Pizarro invoices sent based off the auction settled price point of 1 BTC = 3247 USD
asciilifeform: currently i have 0 intention of supporting the thing on sad platforms, folx who insist on crapple or microshit oughta do it with own hands
asciilifeform: will be interesting to see what comes of this. if cost remains small , it hardly makes sense to bother with 'zcx' then
diana_coman: perhaps that's just because too few loops; I'll report back when I have the numbers though it might take a while
diana_coman: hence I wanted to actually add some handlers in there and see but atm it's still working on the full run loops-only so will see after that
diana_coman: according to ref manual, of handlers (i.e. regardless of whether exceptions are raised or not)
asciilifeform: i.e. only affects cpu cost of exceptions, rather than all jmp.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 14:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895234 << ffa uses exceptions strictly as 'fucking stop whole program (and if it's running on a micro, whole machine, and flash 'dead!' lamp) right nao!' , so won't impact. my understanding is that it'd impact only speed of the ~exceptions~, longjump is slower cuz it crosses pages -- cachaistically.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect then , that i was right re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895287
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that was just the 3 loops (a,b,c); over 1000 runs, the avg were similar with and without longjmp i.e. 0.46744 without and 0.46754 with longjmp; atm running the full version aka a-v and that hasn't yet finished
asciilifeform: diana_coman: when that thing is done running, plox to tar it up, i'ma replicate on other irons ( if effect is cache-sensitive, may show diff b/w irons )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895366 << hm what was the runtime ~with~ longjmp ? (or still going ? )
asciilifeform: ( fwiw i (and other ru warez folk) like ancient at&t 'djvu' format, it is moar or less jpeg with optional ocr searchable track. a 300MB pdf turd becomes a 2-3MB djvu. )
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 08:00 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895120 -> yep, that was precisely my ref when looking at Ada multi-threading and what support it offers; it actually reads a bit better than the barnes' progr in 2012 but it's more focused, obv
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895198 << btw diana_coman , if you know of other readables , plox to post (or at least the titles, i can dig up with own hands ) ; i oughta have posted burnes et al earlier, but seems like errybody is allergic to scans , so didn't hurry . and lemme know if you end up wanting others, i have the 'spark' text for instance.
asciilifeform: in e.g. airplane, 'exception' should mean that the entire comp shuts down and transfers control to 1 of the hot spare duplicates.
asciilifeform: ( at which point, the job of the proggy is to 1) tell operator ~which~ iron smoked 2) come to full stop, failing 'deadly' or 'safe' depending on design context )
asciilifeform: ( invoking coad ~can~ use handling, if it wants, the lib itself duncare about this )
asciilifeform: the part i dun use is 'handling', they dun get handled, they go to the last-chance trap where proggy stops.
asciilifeform: ( and since nobody asked 'where exactly does ffa use exceptions? i dun see any throws' -- answr is, ~all~ ada coad where bounds checks are enabled, theoretically 'uses' exception, if you break a bounds check what do you suppose happens.)
asciilifeform: btw, if you use exceptions, erry thread needs own last-chance exception eater (they dun cross thread boundaries)
asciilifeform: i usedta have a collection of these, threw out, got trdious
a111: Logged on 2015-06-22 21:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_field this goes right into our discussion about how the only reason lisp is ok where c is shot is that the hordes haven't sat on lisp but on c, would have been the other way around if they had sat the other way.
asciilifeform: 'my thesis advisor ate my pet fish'