ascii_butugychag: !s variety speak
ascii_butugychag: as if using longhand made text somehow magically comprehensible to all and unpriestlike.
ascii_butugychag: because we did not have any reason to agree on the hieroglyph.
ascii_butugychag: because it saves no space/time.
ascii_butugychag: which this
ascii_butugychag: the 'notation as obscurantist claptrap'
ascii_butugychag: let's have verbal quaternion ?
ascii_butugychag: verbalize the elements?
ascii_butugychag: what other notational element, i wonder, would he have us give up? matrix ?
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu doesn't do mathematics, this is evident. perhaps he did at one point, but not now.
ascii_butugychag: and needs to hold a MAXIMUM of thought from the page in his head
ascii_butugychag: but DEATH to somebody who needs to formally ~manipulate~ them.
ascii_butugychag: and yes, e.g., maxwell's equations stated verbally might be more pleasing to a n00b
ascii_butugychag: philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths that haven't been mechanized)
ascii_butugychag: will take my maximally-compact notations from my cold, dead hands.
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366851 << abuse is no argument. mechanic can bash in skull with wrench. does not follow that wrench ought to be soft.
ascii_butugychag: and i notice that mircea_popescu links to bitmaps of gurlz, not homeric descriptions in 10,000 words...
ascii_butugychag: then forum doesn't do maths.
ascii_butugychag: because 1-line equation can be 4 pages of sexp ???
ascii_butugychag: trinque: a good and necessary thing in mathematics. but i don't want to view them with eyes!
ascii_butugychag: that tower only gets so-high.
ascii_butugychag: mno.
ascii_butugychag: as if it were euclid's greece
ascii_butugychag: who wants to use motherfucking words
ascii_butugychag: find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on this.
ascii_butugychag: just like mechanic buys a hammer and NOT a brick.
ascii_butugychag: people who ~live and die~ by motherfucking compact equations, ALWAYS invent hieroglyphs
ascii_butugychag: just like perl is.
ascii_butugychag: now that's garbage.
ascii_butugychag: trinque: compact at a price
ascii_butugychag: and i'm not interested in writing word 'nabla' instead of ∇ every time !111
ascii_butugychag: but a 1 line equation beats two pages of ascii crud.
ascii_butugychag: and i don't always like the notation.;
ascii_butugychag: trinque: because it is compact.
ascii_butugychag: for ~authoring~ maths - absolutely, gimme sexpr.
ascii_butugychag: this is rather like asking why a heap of guts is the correct interface for a surgeon but not a lover !
ascii_butugychag: trinque: it is a good representation for directly manipulating ast
ascii_butugychag: 'i wanna hug a gurl not a set of loose guts'
ascii_butugychag: but UNDERNEATH.
ascii_butugychag: where you ~could~ search for 'red arrows' etc
ascii_butugychag: i agree, whole thing oughta be a sexpr underneath
ascii_butugychag: in those graphs.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: whatcha talking about, the text is selectable
ascii_butugychag: so there is sure as hell more than one renderer.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: mno. you are, for instance, using irc client, which is not same as telnet, isn't showing you (or making you manually type in) the PING and PONG, say
ascii_butugychag: if i can't read, say, http://www.complexity.ethz.ch/education/Lectures/ComplexityHS10/ScriptChapterTwelve WITHOUT ANY degradation in quality, searchability, without superfluous page breaks or line breaks, 'can't dance'
ascii_butugychag: by john m.
ascii_butugychag: read 'lisp-1' paper.
ascii_butugychag: yes
ascii_butugychag: to be rendered by machine into a preferred form
ascii_butugychag: they were meant as an intermediate representation
ascii_butugychag: not even mccarthy wanted to LOOK at sexps with eyes!
ascii_butugychag: trinque: absolutely motherfucking not
ascii_butugychag: but i have no interest in READING it with naked eye!!
ascii_butugychag: i'm all for latex-like animal in sexp representation
ascii_butugychag: trinque: again, rendered how
ascii_butugychag: everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen to own a convenient interpreter for it
ascii_butugychag: be fed baudot over smoke signal if you go in for that
ascii_butugychag: which always struck me as quite broomsticky
ascii_butugychag: but iirc mircea_popescu is allergic to the whole notion of vector graphics for-printer
ascii_butugychag: yes.
ascii_butugychag: it is ~allowed for~ by the format
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: pdf crapped out by latex is all of these !
ascii_butugychag: 'if i cannot dance, i want nothing to do with your revolution'
ascii_butugychag: does anyone recall emma goldman's famous words re: dancing & the revolution?
ascii_butugychag: ps is a 1980s thing, and was invented for perfectly valid reasons, the malicious bugginess of crapobat etc. are not inherent in it.
ascii_butugychag: (or rather, postscript, pdf is merely ps rebranded)
ascii_butugychag: and presently only achieved in pdf.
ascii_butugychag: first-class citizens.
ascii_butugychag: gotta be searchable, cut&pastable, etc.
ascii_butugychag: because that is idiocy
ascii_butugychag: and i am NOT interested in equations-as-bitmaps!
ascii_butugychag: trinque: i have yet to see even a sane implementation of, e.g., mathml.
ascii_butugychag: scaling down pixelwise is idiocy if it results in an equation where i cannot read the sub- and superscripts, say.
ascii_butugychag: or at least understand why tex is complicated ?
ascii_butugychag: ever read knuth's tex book ?
ascii_butugychag: and if 'this' exceeds the pixel count of the page ?
ascii_butugychag: that is fixed.
ascii_butugychag: y'know, rolls still have a horizontal width.
ascii_butugychag: and looks like shit
ascii_butugychag: but matrix printer tops out at 100 or so dpi.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i own a gigantic crate
ascii_butugychag has owned possibly every e-ink toy on the market
ascii_butugychag: and no colour.
ascii_butugychag: copypaste: tops out at 300 dpi or so
ascii_butugychag: and i'll begin to think about it
ascii_butugychag: eh make me a 1200 dpi screen then
ascii_butugychag: of dead wood.
ascii_butugychag: page.
ascii_butugychag: i own a printer. and i intend to keep owning a printer. i like paper. and i don't ever want to see a motherfucking pagebreak in the middle of an equation.
ascii_butugychag: i have yet to see a pill against pdf proposed here that doesn't reduce to mircea_popescu's broomstick.
ascii_butugychag: then and not before.
ascii_butugychag: pdf can die when i can type in integral sign and not have it EVER pagebroken.
ascii_butugychag: rather than natural crud as-found.
ascii_butugychag: mechanisms.
ascii_butugychag: mocsny had examples, e.g., man takes 'viagra', turning cock into a mechanism, in the sense that you walk into a forest and are not content to sit on ~any~ old surface, if you are there long enough you start making chairs, polishing the wood, etc
ascii_butugychag: (google nuked it)
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: dan mocsny had a spiffy essay on man and mechanism in this sense, but afaik it is lost to history
ascii_butugychag: hm?
ascii_butugychag: that's the whole notion of a mechanism - that it does something quite specific, in a quite-specific way, that is defined in advance
ascii_butugychag: just not necessarily the ones you want.
ascii_butugychag: and the abacus gurlz produced... numbers!111 reliably.
ascii_butugychag: produce shaved apes fairly reliably, sure
ascii_butugychag: depends what means 'work'
ascii_butugychag: 'assembly line with phds'
ascii_butugychag: this works for knights of the round table, but not so much for menial mechanics
ascii_butugychag: which is how babbage got his gig
ascii_butugychag: gurl hung over? wrong numbers come out
ascii_butugychag: and gurlz sat with abacus
ascii_butugychag: when 'computer' was a... job description
ascii_butugychag: know when?
ascii_butugychag: there was a time when alu worked the way upnp 'works'
ascii_butugychag: by being ~extremely~ tight, and, importantly, well-specified, in what input they accept.
ascii_butugychag: the few precious things that ACTUALLY WORK, consistently, every time - your cpu's adder, the bus, etc. SHIT on postel.
ascii_butugychag: 'Low-level things are likely to work correctly since there’s tremendous pressure for them to do so. Because otherwise, all the higher-level stuff will collapse, and everybody will go “AAAAAAAAAA!!”'
ascii_butugychag: 'How many problems did you have with hardware compared to OS compared to end-user apps? According to most evidence I got, JavaScript does whatever the hell it wants at each browser. Hardware is not like that. CPUs from the same breed will run the user-level instructions identically or get off the market. Memory-mapped devices following a hardware protocol for talking to the bus will actually follow it, damn it, or ge
ascii_butugychag: specifically y. kreinin's text,
ascii_butugychag: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=37 << related
ascii_butugychag: (in the genuine sense of the word)
ascii_butugychag: but leads to tremendous ecological catastrophe
ascii_butugychag: it has the smell of good engineering and thereby became enshrined in the old canon
ascii_butugychag: for n00bz, 'postel's law' went something like 'be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept.'
ascii_butugychag: looked for old work, found only this - http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1999945
ascii_butugychag: after the successful test of malleus h., i've been tempted to write one
ascii_butugychag: re: malleus thread: did mircea_popescu ever write an article about the error of 'postel's law' ?
ascii_butugychag: by the next usg stooge, aha
ascii_butugychag: how's that
ascii_butugychag: not by martians, no.
ascii_butugychag: how else.
ascii_butugychag: which? the chaos? or br still having an unraped pres
ascii_butugychag: afaik.
ascii_butugychag: chaos in the precincts, no presidential rape on camera ?
ascii_butugychag: consider brazil.
ascii_butugychag: (in the aggregate, rather than the particular.)
ascii_butugychag: local police are all that presently stand between average u.s. pgp user and a dhs torture chamber.
ascii_butugychag: !s gendarmerie
ascii_butugychag: the emphasis on local police is intensely usgtronic, however.
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366550 << this could almost literally be a quote from that fella on the train this morning
ascii_butugychag: re: earlier thread: for historian types such as pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922643 << my original source for concept in 'v'
ascii_butugychag: speaking of which - anybody else try my malleus mikehearnificarum ?
ascii_butugychag: the pestilence of faux nodez?
ascii_butugychag: wai wut
ascii_butugychag: the thing to understand is that we are doing something quite analogous to the invention of... SANITATION.
ascii_butugychag: but i was discussing a hypothetical v-tronic variant of 'portage'
ascii_butugychag: presently, 'make' only cares that a particular file name comes to exist
ascii_butugychag: you can think of this idea as a more fascist version of 'make'
ascii_butugychag: not same binary? won't hash correctly, flow graph cannot proceed.
ascii_butugychag: 2) make sure src is EXACTLY SAME on all boxes.
ascii_butugychag: you 1) patch gcc
ascii_butugychag: for so long as the crud gets put there, you don't have deterministic build
ascii_butugychag: needs to DIE
ascii_butugychag: CHECK is useless
ascii_butugychag: try it.
ascii_butugychag: it shits out system-specific crud into the build.
ascii_butugychag: because gcc is full of shit
ascii_butugychag: no, not trivial.
ascii_butugychag: as i said,
ascii_butugychag: (recall when we diffed rotor builds ??)
ascii_butugychag: all of the idiot indeterminate hiss on current boxes will have to go.
ascii_butugychag: as in, i build on nintendo, mircea_popescu on cray, we get same elf output so long as we asked for same target and used same src.
ascii_butugychag: and deterministic in the ~bitwise~ sense.
ascii_butugychag: gotta have this x before you can even think about y-ing.
ascii_butugychag: unfortunately this is not negotiable
ascii_butugychag: first need deterministic buildatron.
ascii_butugychag: but nothing that would add up to sanity
ascii_butugychag: it had, iirc, some (spotty) support for pgp
ascii_butugychag: because nobody has a deterministic builder
ascii_butugychag: the port tree does not specify the exact hash of executable built at each point
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: as for 'portage', think about it
ascii_butugychag: but less gain.
ascii_butugychag: approx same pain
ascii_butugychag: (for n00bz: lamport signature is to signing approx. what otp is to encipherment)
ascii_butugychag: (at least for now, at some point folks might start using lattice or even, fuck, lamport signatures)
ascii_butugychag: seal ~= rsa modular exponentiant.
ascii_butugychag: sigil =~= rsa modulus
ascii_butugychag: this is the proper meaning.
ascii_butugychag: let's sigils produce seals!
ascii_butugychag: (e.g., you don't know EXACTLY bitwise what you want at a step)
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366191 << complicated. v is deliberately unusable with 'fuzzy' flow
ascii_butugychag: let's
ascii_butugychag: but this is a good one.
ascii_butugychag: i dun think i named them
ascii_butugychag: possibly
ascii_butugychag: a sigil is a tuple of a seal & the thing-sealed.
ascii_butugychag: aha, only black fella i saw in b-a was a pilot
ascii_butugychag: sovereigns ?!!
ascii_butugychag: where was this
ascii_butugychag: cult film, what canyoudo
ascii_butugychag: ^ old nyooz ?
ascii_butugychag: -- direct quote
ascii_butugychag: 'don't believe me?!! look what's happening to yer greenbacks!!!111'
ascii_butugychag: no conductor
ascii_butugychag: enjoyed a good hour of this
ascii_butugychag: and usg spreading aids, chemtrails, etc.
ascii_butugychag: incidentally there was a ragged black fella preaching about 9/11 inside job
ascii_butugychag: aha i just got off a city train, likewise inherently statal, and advantageous
ascii_butugychag: i see names as necessarily a local (machine) matter.
ascii_butugychag: he probably also never drove a cart hitched to a pack of stray dogs
ascii_butugychag: the whole 'memorable centralized names' thing is inherently statal.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i can't speak for others, but i was always ok with '6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 likes to call himself mircea_popescu so why not'
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: 'wireshark' (read-only)
ascii_butugychag: well it is implicit in the reference to zooko's triangle
ascii_butugychag: i'm just not personally convinced that names gotta be automatic
ascii_butugychag: 100% filesystem-based
ascii_butugychag: my v connects nowhere
ascii_butugychag: how does updater know where to connect ?
ascii_butugychag: does anyone actually need ~more~ sweat on his box ?
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: can, but with a great deal of manual sweat
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 had a pretty good guide to v
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366374 << much as mircea_popescu dislikes 'must x before y!1111' affairs, this really oughta run on gossipd.
ascii_butugychag: usg knows very well who has any business writing off serious sums and who does not.
ascii_butugychag: and just about any serious deviation from your social stature in the spirit of 'peasant doesn't get to own a rembrandt, wtf' will attract auditors very, very quickly in usa.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu is correct. otherwise you could set up faux 'museum' and 'donate' junk 'worth' millions.
ascii_butugychag: adlai is correct
ascii_butugychag: so fuck that.
ascii_butugychag: and 'what i paid for it' is almost NOTHING
ascii_butugychag: my point is that museum can get it considerably cheaper.
ascii_butugychag: and more common.
ascii_butugychag: non-working but identically-appearing boxes are much cheaper
ascii_butugychag: adlai: this is a sad joke, the machine's value is more or less ENTIRELY in the fact that it WORKS
ascii_butugychag: dafuq
ascii_butugychag: 'apple always wanted an os' -- is mircea_popescu posting from 1995 ?
ascii_butugychag: because wtf
ascii_butugychag: would you also try to merge... the products ?
ascii_butugychag: also each relies on the good-cop/bad-cop symbiosis
ascii_butugychag: (ditto intel & amd)
ascii_butugychag: ceremonial antitrust
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: same reason today as in 1997
ascii_butugychag: i get paid to make xyz happen. and the budget makes provisions for shooting, say, up to six rabid weasels. BUT NOT 6,666,666.
ascii_butugychag: but that's ok, broomstick, aha?
ascii_butugychag: as in, NOTHING which i actually ~need~ on the job, works
ascii_butugychag: 'some pain'
ascii_butugychag: go generate 10,000 node flow graph in your sleep, thx
ascii_butugychag: and i can't maths in a terminal.
ascii_butugychag: keep in mind, if there aren't at least 2880 pixels horizontally, i'm not interested.
ascii_butugychag: does x11 run worth SHIT
ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: on WHICH portable gpu ?
ascii_butugychag: and i'm not interested in spending ANOTHER MOTHERFUCKING SIX MONTHS fighting the graphics card driver
ascii_butugychag: and if the windows don't go back to their places when different sets of monitors are unplugged and re-plugged, also not interested
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: desktop doesn't go in motherfucking briefcase
ascii_butugychag: zzz?
ascii_butugychag: and if your 'runs like a dream' doesn't include motherfucking suspend mode, i'm not interested
ascii_butugychag: this is butugychag laptop.
ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: this is not an old laptop
ascii_butugychag: doesn't so much matter that it is a paste.
ascii_butugychag: take the paste, take ohmmeter, see
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: what do you suppose a resistor is made of ?
ascii_butugychag: '... We knew this change would break other ports, but given that there are some 100 ports that depend on qt4-mac, we can't test them all. Thanks for your understanding.'
ascii_butugychag: 'It does install qmake, just not where it was installed before. ..... This change was made to allow parallel install of qt4 and qt5 (and, possible, other qt# variations). If you're having issues with other ports that depend on qt4-mac, please open a ticket for each and/or list them here & we will work hard to get them fixed promptly.