decimation: land open to this is mainly west of the mississippi
decimation: asciilifeform: no mainly through nobody's doing, apparently it is still legal in the us to 'claim' federal land for mining
decimation: but since nobody is printing crystals, etc they can make $$
asciilifeform: l0l what do they get? tax break ?
decimation: apparently there are people who spend their time trying to find minerals on federal land
decimation: on a vaguely related note, I found an amusing show on 'the weather channel' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1gZSNdkajY
decimation: asciilifeform: if you had a winblows computer for malware, it would also be useful to hit another button and display a complete diff between running state and 'known good' state
asciilifeform: this did not annoy folks as much as it should have because until recently (linux ver. is new) everyone ran it on a designated turdbox with the other wincrap
decimation: or as in, can be exploited if reversing the wrong warez?
decimation: because it would be like paying for the sun
asciilifeform: afaik no one has ever bothered (why?)
asciilifeform: to really deal with this, would have to obtain a number of builds, and unravel the scheme
asciilifeform: vendor knows for whom the build (with particular order of static linked internals, etc) was built
asciilifeform: thing is, it's attributed whether it displays your name or not
decimation: why bother with attribution?
asciilifeform: didn't say they buy one for each man!
mats: most of the serious dudes i know have non-attributed ida licenses
asciilifeform: decimation: understand, every 'legit' corp. on the planet which employs reverse-engineers, incl. the arms of usg, buys ida.
asciilifeform: to which there is no realistic alternative
decimation: asciilifeform: once you add a few more zeros to your bank account, probably can't be bothered with a few extra $k
asciilifeform doesn't know the chap personally, can't help find him
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe wot is the pill to no longer be angry.
asciilifeform: the folks who own it now are profoundly aware of their position. you pretty much have to beg repeatedly to so much as be given an address to which to mail the cheque
mats: its pretty easy to say 'well i got hacked plz gief another one'
decimation: this sounds like the best mechanism for trying to enforce 'copyright' I've heard of
asciilifeform: but iirc he sold the firm years ago
mircea_popescu: if only the guy could join teh wot.
decimation: well, I'm also sure there's warez too
mats: i'm from the internets, why settle for free
decimation: mats: i think there's a free version of ida for download
asciilifeform: mats: if you have the stomach !
asciilifeform: decimation: whatddayaknow, there is emulator.
asciilifeform: mats: ida is a total monopoly on the kind of thing that it is, bar none. i don't know of any other product category anywhere in modern industry where there is ~ONE~ thing
mats: i want to easily see the values of all registers (as noted before) including bit flags, fp registers, ...
asciilifeform: at least in one form or another
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gdb is what the entire free world uses
asciilifeform: decimation: the folks who have 'must work' as hard requirement still prefer the whole 'spend ten years with magnifying glass' to 'rethink computing'
mats: while i'm on the subject here is there useful reversible debugging you're aware of, asciilifeform?
decimation: in fact, to even seriously consider writing software for which you are liable is to instantly consider dumping the existing c-machine
asciilifeform: the notion that any kind of animal is even possible other than rat, is held to be a lunatic fringe thing
asciilifeform: but if only this. since then, an entire class of vermin sprang up
asciilifeform: yes, they exempted software 'industry' from ~all~ consumer liability laws in '80s.
asciilifeform: so far, they ain't buying.
decimation: you could sell to another arm of usg
decimation: sure, why bother actually finding malware when people will pay you to pretend
asciilifeform: decimation: of course they are specially designated physical boxes.
decimation: asciilifeform: you almost need real metal box, because of all the vm detection
mircea_popescu: and you will be telling me about how hard it is to escape, right, because moving off windows will require "someone to provide the lost income"
asciilifeform: i have winblows box. solely to run malware. which is one of the things i am paid for.
asciilifeform: this is already happening. but, as william gibson wrote, 'the future is here, but not evenly distributed.'
mircea_popescu: which is the eventual fate of all government agencies.
decimation: the only thing I use winblows for is to record tv shows, because they give free listing service
mircea_popescu: perfect way for the living wage introduction.
mircea_popescu: and they will.
asciilifeform: the 'shrink dies' thing is pure sideshow.
asciilifeform: actually the thing they put 'all their chips' is collaboration with microshit and the entire criminal pyramid
decimation: not that we would know it anyway, because of the nda problem
decimation: what I mean is that intel, for instance, just puts all their chips on the 'let's shrink dies' side
asciilifeform: decimation: if only. the 'intellectual property!!!111!!!!!' cancer has eaten most of it
decimation: asciilifeform: the electronics industry is still largely in that mode
asciilifeform: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/12/local/la-me-jack-tramiel-20120412 << tramiel didn't give a rat's arse re: computing 'big picture.' he was running a manufacturing concern, in the old 19th. sense in his mind, complete with 'muntzing'
decimation: "Like many other inmates, his father was reported to have died of typhus in the work camp; however, Tramiel believed he was killed by an injection of gasoline. " nasty
mircea_popescu: well not exactly. he was more into the "why should i punish google for google fucking up my email ?!?!?! i just want email to work!!11"
asciilifeform: (y'know, the fella who said 'why aren'tcha using gmail, terrorist')
decimation: "The disagreement between Tramiel and Gould was so bitter that, after Tramiel's departure, the Commodore magazine was forbidden to state any of Tramiel's famous sayings or even mention his name."
mircea_popescu: interesting how the twerps keep changing name, too. i don't seem to recall this particular extortionist.
mircea_popescu: the odds of me "visiting" some random agent in the "danegeld to email" scamring ? zilch.
trinque: but we're free! because anyone can have their own dismal bureaucracy
trinque: it occurs to me that the fraud dept of paypal may look very much like some soviet bureau's office did
mircea_popescu: "weird bad, stupid good! for weird is weird and stupid smells like the home stable!11"
mircea_popescu: im entirely certain they actually THINK THIS, too.
mircea_popescu: running off with payments and then blocking emails is a perfectly legit strategy.
mircea_popescu: apparently I'm the shady one for not using paypal and being romanian.
mircea_popescu: in other news : apparently blender has this official "marketplace" thing, which lists various assets for sale. so I go for a 16 bucks buy, on the theory that let's check it out. coinbase, of course. my payment is uncredited. they have a support email for just this case, i write to them... my email is rejected.
decimation: because the commodore board was full of retards apparently
BingoBoingo: decimation: And warm climate agricultual labor was the selling point of involuntary immigration of Africans, but only because Mestizos were too expensive at the time.
asciilifeform: eventually they diverted revenue into making items like 'c128' but it was too late.
asciilifeform: the death of cbm is a pretty well-documented subject, and revolved around their one and only unforgivable sin - royally pissing off their c64 install base by breaking compatibility
assbot: An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcPP1U )
decimation: http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claimed that 'basic' was the real selling point of the c64
BingoBoingo has never found a working Apple IIGS at an acceptable price. Played with one for a bit Phree then...
mircea_popescu: we did, they sucked, how it goes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno how documented it was, not caring for such thing at that age. i know however that the amiga guy never made anything like a game.
mircea_popescu: apple managed to somehow remain THE SAME assholes in spite of changing everything around jobs
asciilifeform: the difference is that cbm did not sell a cult, it sold machinery
BingoBoingo: Apple II's apple's swan song the IIGS was a great machine
mircea_popescu: and while i agree with you re the distinction, i believe it's without a difference.
mircea_popescu: they stand in my mind because when i first heard of apple i thought "hey... this is like... amiga ?"
asciilifeform: in any of the products sold by that firm
asciilifeform: there is literally no trace of it remaining.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: point was not that it was difficult to drill. aftermarket 'keys' appeared almost immediately. point was the symbolic meaning of this abomination
asciilifeform: (there were really four outfits under name 'apple' - the folks who sold apple ii series; the folks who sold 'mac' until '99; rebranded 'next corp.' under herr jobs; the present-day zombie.)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis << You mean apple provided a target for the drill
asciilifeform: cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:27:05; mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175101 << there was! but it is a mistake to lump in amiga. cbm was still under delusion that it sold ~computers~ rather than 'system' (that is, complete slave planet like apple, where peripheral makers pay danegeld, etc)
BingoBoingo: trinque: BeBox was the next gen victim of Mac survival
trinque: ultra-stable, high performance, was miles ahead of the game re: graphics in its time
trinque: BingoBoingo | It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died << heard "microkernel wank" a couple times round here, but I was a huge BeOS fan back in the day
decimation: and those poor whites were largely the targets of black immigration to cities
BingoBoingo: Mostly poor rural whites, southern optional.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Only when sane pale folk say whitey. When SJW's and the lower class blacks say whitey they mean poor whites.
mircea_popescu: whites are like the jews, amirite ?
mircea_popescu: we find the following things suspicious : romania, paywalls, and bitcoin.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:10:44; BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175076 < actually whitey moved the black folk into the cities - to push out 'white ethnic' voting blocks
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes. << Sure. The biggest difference was Amiga paid more for parts on each box so they could get the niche live video production market. All the assholes, reamed on their chosen niches
mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:48:21; mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions
mircea_popescu: the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> in theory bsd and mac should be similar << BSD isn't all that similar to other BSD
decimation: in theory you could make an X11 version if it already works on X
mircea_popescu: "all girls are similar until they strip"
decimation: in theory bsd and mac should be similar
mircea_popescu: <waylow> I'm on mac so I couldn't figure out how to install the game
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:07:18; mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174805 < lol software is the only game that pays
asciilifeform: incidentally k. did 'win from not signing the papers,' in a way. after recanting his confession (given under torture, which mutilated him in ways which ultimately led to his death) his death sentence was commuted to life-at-hard-labour
BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american
mircea_popescu: i dunno that primary sources escape the suetonius objhection.
BingoBoingo: Gus the Christmas ornament of course being one of the antagonists in the original blockbuster film
mircea_popescu: well then we can't really say much can we.
BingoBoingo: Maybe this is the wrong epoch's fiction being contrasted. Maybe 'Uncle Tom' and 'Gus' the christmas ornament would cover a larger range of outcomes.
asciilifeform: yes, he was there...
asciilifeform: s. is approx. the same kind of guide to the subject as svetonius and '12 caesars' is to his.
gribble: Sergei Korolev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev>; First get your facts straight... - RationalSkepticism.org: <http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseudoscience/first-get-your-facts-straight-t46146.html>; How To Think Critically - RationalSkepticism.org: <http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-debunking/how-to-think- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: at least he WAS there.
asciilifeform: naturally i wasn't there, saying hello to k. in person
mircea_popescu: so we're switching "fiction as written by a respected source" to "fiction as alf feels like recounting it for the purpose of current convo" ?
asciilifeform: on the contrary, at the peak of his career, he had two goons stationed outside of his apartment door at all times.
mircea_popescu: pick one, they all have it, as part of being credible.
mircea_popescu: this is strictly different from "jewish princesses imagining themselves special in own mind"
asciilifeform: well, he gets caviar while the worst gets beans, sure
mircea_popescu: people naming their own terms were in there - provided, of course, they got to magic away problems.
asciilifeform: in sharashka, the very best rocket designer's terms are 'i get to eat'
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:46:57; mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.
BingoBoingo: Seriously people were like "It's a misdemeanor don't fight it." I'm like "It's a misdemeanor and I'm white. They prolly don't anticipate having to prosecute it"
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system. << This. On my misdemeanor charge which it was suggest I settle organizational incompetence on the part of the police and prosecution seems to be scuttling whatever case they may or may not have had. Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel. Alleged "victim" is reportedly now a joke subject to taunts from coworkers wit
mircea_popescu: nobody said you get to make all the choices you might wish to.
asciilifeform: or is there a colony of 'left' on mars.
asciilifeform: what is this 'left', when the bottle has no outside.
mircea_popescu: turning back on one';s choices later is not another's problem. i am not held to explain why the guy that changed his mind failed both ways.
mircea_popescu: anyway. see the married men article. they who wish to be exonrated left,long ago. those who stay ALREADY MADE the choice to max damage.
mircea_popescu: but broadly, "if the rule of law didn't suck, or if it did and nobody'd bother showing it - what then ?"
mircea_popescu: i don't think the connections will ever be certain.
asciilifeform: open to seeing the logic ?
mircea_popescu: or dja regard the present as unconnected ?
mircea_popescu: oleander blosom sees to it that's the last time YOU're running anywhere.
asciilifeform: leaving aside the fact that poor u. wanted to save own sorry hide, rather than 'damage system,' there is precedent.
mircea_popescu: the goal here is not to "Exonerate"
asciilifeform: herr ulbricht didn't have a 'lawyer problem,' he had a military problem. or could a sufficiently expert german lawyer have exonerated, say, the 'july plot' folks who failed to nail the fuhrer
mircea_popescu: "what's the point of donating - prolly go straight to a lawyer snake anyway"
mircea_popescu: but THEY know what they're doing. they are doing exactly tyhis : make the chumps helpless.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources << and the fact that kid would sign off on this - pretty disgraceful.
mircea_popescu: "this program does nothing" "yes, but it takes some time - like any other program!"
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions
asciilifeform: the solution of very expensive problems with no precedent is quite possibly a lemon market, yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the dratel example is particularly on point. what that man did was the equivalent of a bitdaytrade "platform".
mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.
asciilifeform: and any undergrad 'ee' student can draw you the muller gate standard cell in cmos.
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't give 50k to random unknown schmuck without a wot for the obvious reasons, regardless what they can or could do.
mircea_popescu: apparently they'd have to bake a whole new silicone process.
asciilifeform: plus lawyer was quite possibly the wrong tool for the job. ulbricht needed to hire 'blackwater' rather than lawyer.
BingoBoingo: Lawyers who can reliably contain problems don't const $maxint. The only lawyers who charge $maxint aren't charging for their lawyering, but marketing. Hence Ulbricht hiring the maliciously incompetent Dratel snake.
asciilifeform: ditto for surgeons who specialize in the nearly-impossible, etc
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:44:04; mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174921 << i don't single out lawyers from naive 'but mine has mercedes!' observation, but because the lawyers who ~actually reliably magic away problems~ are not dying in debt. or worrying about rent.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:52:54; mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174939 << the magic of bitcoin is that 100% can go to the fella who is willing to dive in a pressure suit below five kilometres of liquid shit and retrieve grandmother's dishes from the sunken h.m.s. shitanic
asciilifeform: and yes, the 'software industry' is so utterly rotten that an individual act of deretardification has to be contemplated on own merits, rather than as 'market action', modellable with the usual rules. sorta like buying a russian nuke. sui generis.
asciilifeform: but to bring it back to the 'dirty house, cleaners want wheelbarrow of gold, so must stay dirty' - i doubt mircea_popescu is suffering from any software problem that, say, terry davis (deliberately not nominating any of the folks here for this gedankenexperiment) couldn't or wouldn't fix for, say, 50000btc
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, i'll listen sympathetically to any programmer that can't feed himself ; and i'll be amused at any programmer that "but oprah!". the field's over there, and it takes all comers. don't mind the manure.
mircea_popescu: because their 2bn is conditionally theirs on the understanding not that it won't get used "for terrorism",
mircea_popescu: not like they can spend two billion to buy a hundred thousand aks and ammo for them and shoot the whole charade into the ground
mircea_popescu: and yes the trillion spent also means five people got two billion a pop give or take to be paraded across the country with a large jam tomorrow sign affixed.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the trillion spent means the govt got to offset 990 billion off another whatever indescript entry in its ledger,
mircea_popescu: and with math, too : if social expenditure for field is one trillion, and the headcount employed is one million, that means one million get to divy up a hundred million, thus making a whooping 100 a head. that's not even the fabled dollar a day.
mircea_popescu: then coders (unlike doctors! or lawyers! and the lawyers would JUMP at the chance, if it were somehow feasible - but so far it's only feasible in banking and finance, mostly) get the option to work for equity, but
mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation << Ah, the Roof problem. Rook shot up nine respectable civilized folk. If he really cared to address his precieved problem his target ought to have been a crack house.
mircea_popescu: nor is the laywer.
mircea_popescu: the same would have been true if they were fighting cancer as is true when they are fighting the usg.
mircea_popescu: the other one is that, the government. yes, fucktards like shrem end up selling the house to pay "the lawyer".
mircea_popescu: in fact. most of these girlies are in the shitter, consider http://trilema.com/2014/holy-shit-technical-analysis-is-real/#selection-85.0-89.62
mircea_popescu: there are two overlapping misguiding things here. one is, the tournament market. you wouldn't imagine singer/songwriters are better off than you because britney spears, would you ? nor would you imagine "pundits are rich" because oprah, or limbaugh or whatever.
williamdunne: The best off lawyer I know, made very little of his money directly from being a lawyer
mircea_popescu: "my grandfather was a senator, and my father made a billion, and i'd better do another line of cock^H^Hke before i think about this too muc"
mircea_popescu: as far as they are concerned, getting an even bummer deal than code monkeys. plus they have the family dynasties stuff to make it more painful.
mircea_popescu: there's no lawyer that walks away with a bn from a successful buyout.
mircea_popescu: generally, the prospect of being a lawyer is strictly speaking dimmer than the prospect of being a programmer.
mircea_popescu: and that's not even counting for the currently alive set.
mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs
asciilifeform: but computing in the modern, interactive-terminal sense came later.
mircea_popescu: not even true. computing appeared in the 50s.
asciilifeform: people ask why 'computing is different' and answer is that the field had the misfortune to appear at the same time as the great 'democratization' shit-lathering of the 20th c.
mircea_popescu: arguably intellectual problems, such as software, are easier to clean for being virtual rather than physically embodied
asciilifeform: it reduces the 'ocean of problems' to one particular - scientifically formulatable - problem.
mircea_popescu: if your house is fulla shit, the realisation that an idiot shat your floor does not clean it any.
mircea_popescu: this while true, makes the problems not an iota smaller.
asciilifeform: which is what the 'computing industry' is largely about.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody turned thermodynamics off, but it is entirely possible to have a room full of lunatics mumbling 'vroom, vroom'
asciilifeform: but the stink of ape-man shit
mircea_popescu: there's no option here, however. no way will be devised where the systematically wrong model can be employed. it's, essentially, what a scam is : the proposition that we've temporarily turned thermodynamics off.
asciilifeform: most of them are not actual problems
asciilifeform: ditto the 'problems'
asciilifeform: once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation
mircea_popescu: generally when people compare the present with the option they imagine, they take selected bits of each.
mircea_popescu: in theory it works out to better pay and better working coinditions than the alternative, but
mircea_popescu: this scenario only plays out in your own mind (admittedly poisoned by a lot of interaction with idiots). in reality it's like this : there are more jobs than people. the system where you pay people a salary only works when there are more people than jobs. when there are more jobs than people you essentially create a large excavator of sense on a large mountain of problems, and divy up the results somehow. such as they
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174884 << i can't pretend to any divine revelation re: the numbers, but what i do see is folks who pay lawyer $xxxxx to solve their problem, and offer programmer $xxx. and then wonder why their programmatic problems remain unsolved. they answer 'lawyer is a man and programmer is a monkey. and the latter gets monkey wage.' answer: you paid for monkey. so that's what you get.
mircea_popescu: this is the first seriouys problem we ran into, ever since this globalization paradigm.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem exists because it's global. not because "in this tiny island of rust beltlandia so and so rats".
asciilifeform: when will mircea_popescu be volunteering for rat shooting detail in the abandoned factories of leningrad ?
mircea_popescu: fnance is what it is, its own kind of thermodynamics, off of which it is actually derived.
mircea_popescu: it's simple, really : when jobs < people, you can pay. when jobs > people, you gotta let em volunteer. no other way.
mircea_popescu: now you bitch about their nonsensicalness ?!
mircea_popescu: you're the one forcing me to use nonsensical terms to humor you
asciilifeform: measuring software dev in 'man-time' is ~how we got a planet with microshit in the first place~
mircea_popescu: forget your own opinion, the thing trades on exchanges, worth what, 100bn ?
asciilifeform: and who's to say what weevils will breed in the crater
asciilifeform: if there were, e.g., a martian in orbit, known for his impeccable honesty, who offered to vaporize every last employee of microshit, present and past, for 10 btc - mircea_popescu would decline ?
mircea_popescu: tyvm. but... what fixed percent of all the money that's ever going to exist is microsoft worth ?
mircea_popescu: o, wait, "actual money" = "fixed percent of all the money that'sd ever going to exist" ?
mircea_popescu: for pay to work as you expect there's a strict requirement that jobs < people.
mircea_popescu: there's no way to pay five people to do six jobs!
mircea_popescu: that's the ACTUAL bargaining chip of the sv firms : if you ACTUALLY want us to pay market rate, market rate's infinity and we're paying it. get printing.