asciilifeform: (see the gconv-modules turd? fucking lamers)
asciilifeform: '(EXPERIMENTAL) Static Builder for TheRealBitcoin.'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm about to zip up the whole build tree so folks can test quickly
ben_vulpes: i wonder how long it'll take to duplicate the feat.
asciilifeform: There is no dynamic section in this file.
ben_vulpes: i am interested in things like 'literate programming' in the context of mathematical education, essay writing etc
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: because although you already know of these things, many people do not.
asciilifeform gave a good share of gabriel_laddel's material a fair, imho, reading, and still isn't entirely grasping how the proposed widget wins over classical linux box with sbcl on it
trinque: given that I'm already using an absurd compromise (stumpwm+emacs) I'd take something which measurably improves what I'm doing there already
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: that is the idea - but currently - no.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: does your sbcl userland for linux come with a physical box where i get guarantee that the, e.g., video board, works ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the last time i met folks who 'they'll use what's there', they were running... winxp
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: 'they' << your customers?
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I saw that in the logs earlier. It doesn't really matter - they don't have any other options.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: the boys have been talking shit about your lispos
ben_vulpes: the boys have been talking shit about your lispos
asciilifeform: trinque: move your abstraction level down to where the question makes sense
trinque: who says this guy wants to know some facts and not others
trinque: the routing is what I'm not clear on
trinque: asciilifeform: no, but water doesn't ever come out of the socket
gabriel_laddel: stas: dataflow never caught on because you absolutely need dedicated hardware. if you want real efficiency, you can’t even use standard RAM. so it gets dismissed as nuttery, on the rare occasions it comes up.
trinque: asciilifeform: so this circuit expresses a desire for the answer to some question, and some other circuit may or may not satisfy it
mircea_popescu: refresh me. what in ulimit discusses the i/o ?
asciilifeform: trinque: the whole concept of having von neumann's bottleneck, where you can't do anything at all on the machine without waiting your turn for the little airline latrine of alu, mmu, etc. is asinine
trinque: asciilifeform: so is it the synchronized nature of "modern" IO that is braindamaged?
trinque: asciilifeform: no, but sometimes there's a cat in it!
asciilifeform: trinque: when you plant your arse in your chair, does arse 'request access to the chair' ?)
trinque: is this a distributed thing, whereby one circuit requests access to another?
asciilifeform: approach has limitations, there are asynchronous things in the world (e.g., nic, disks)
asciilifeform: in extreme poverty of the 1950s - yes, it makes sense
asciilifeform: this is not the only way to build a computer.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: think of it, traditional cpu ~is~ cloaka, where you pgp with the same barrel shifter and adder that you play tetris and read lolcatz with
trinque: a data structure somewhere read by the switching matrix?
asciilifeform: these presently exist, you can go to store and buy. called fpga.
trinque: I could declare that the terminal circuit is now connected to (among other things) my circuit which logs terminal stuff?
asciilifeform: how to represent it is up to the operator
trinque: is there some data structure manifested in the lisp system which represents the state of the thing?
asciilifeform: it is the only sane i/o. what we have now is chicken's cloaka, which pisses, shits, fucks, and lays eggs via same orifice (why not also eat with it?)
trinque: gabriel_laddel: end of a circuit, so "circuit" is bedrock, or composed thereof?
asciilifeform: e.g., if a malformed packet appears, or connection breaks at any point in the process, or, or.
asciilifeform: trinque: for this one, symbolics lisp is not a bad example. the key being that ~nothing can happen~ short of the nic catching fire that would land you on any level of abstraction below lisp
gabriel_laddel: so, for instance, think of the terminal you are now typing into. on a true dataflow box, it would simply be the end of a circuit (screen memory) directly linked to a circuit with the keyboard matrix decoder on the other end of it. you thus also lose the concept of ‘interrupts’ or ‘processes’. a dataflow box doesn’t need a scheduler, or an interrupt
trinque: asciilifeform: yes I have, and grok the gist, I think
asciilifeform: trinque: there are no examples.
asciilifeform: (well, the smp control gizmo)
asciilifeform: trinque: i/o in the very basic sense of talking to the framebuffer, nic, interrupt controller
trinque: I'm just glad I figured out I needed to relearn programming at 28 rather than 58
asciilifeform: 'lisp doesn't need i/o.' --my brother
asciilifeform: who doesn't believe me (and why should?) can go waste years himself. like the 'movitz' folks did
trinque: can't build a VM for some syslisp which is then implemented later as hardware?
asciilifeform: i.e. the hardware can't be meaningfully abstracted over.
mircea_popescu: in other news, women and incentives in tech. http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6uukgUutx1rayp8lo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: actually it's quite possible the eventual b-a distribution is a sort of lisp "java machine"
trinque chants "do not give in to astonishment" as he fires up the clim listener
trinque: ah, no it's doing fine there
trinque: but the clarity
mircea_popescu: the source matters first and foremost. just like you cant have "a message" without first having the key to decrypt the asc with
mircea_popescu: and no, the "opinions" of tim swanson are NOT opinions. because no wot. and so fucking on.
mircea_popescu: "oh, recognition has ocunter-productive effects". no. perelman rejected the recognition you were offering BECAUSE IT CAME FROM YOU
mircea_popescu: just like i wouldn't take a nobel on the basis that i do not wish to have the shiot they gave obama.
mircea_popescu: so no. rewards reward. being associated with the refuse of white civilisation does neither reduce to that, nor stand for it, nor is a basis of a conclusion. of course nobody sane or thinking wishes to be associated with the filth.
mircea_popescu: the shit the puritan us does for "rewards" is NOT the statu quo. it is just the retarded, intellectually bankrupt, morally offensive charicature of the world the usian puritans came up with.
mircea_popescu: "The recognition that rewards can have counter-productive effects is based on a variety of studies," << it is strictly based on a felonious substitution. it is exactly like saying "sex can be unpleasant for women" on the basis of the sex we practice being very violent rape.
asciilifeform: (and the ru translation is even better than original imho)
mircea_popescu: i am apparently unfamiliar with the sfs of your home world.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: vernor vinge's 'fire upon the deep' had just this
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> trinque: actually 'lisps' happen because the alternative would be a civilization that doesn't leak. and we don't have one of those to kick around << amusingly enough, re the earlier dog discussion : dog cunt seals, for this reason.
mircea_popescu: it's basically an implementation of racism. the presuposition being that the color of the skin conveniently summarizes the abilities of the thing contained in that skin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i find the proposition that "version numbers" are any sort of program signal utterly retarded.
trinque: I've heard it said that were the US to want to repeat Apollo, they'd have to practically start from scratch, as nearly everyone who had mastery over the processes used before are now dead
trinque: the vessels I meant were human heads
trinque: someone towering comes along and he knows how to do X; yet without enough others that understood him, it'd make sense that the knowledge ends up lost
asciilifeform: trinque: the ~other~ egyptians (today's) have zero to do with the folks who built pyramids
trinque: there were earlier egyptians supposedly that knew how to make the things, then there were later egyptians that basically squatted on what was built before, having no idea how it got there
asciilifeform: trinque: 'wanting' wasn't enough in the age of hand-copied text
asciilifeform: but then went away for a while.
asciilifeform: just as the slipless ratchet does not exist (and physically cannot. see feynman's perpetuum mobile)
asciilifeform: trinque: actually 'lisps' happen because the alternative would be a civilization that doesn't leak. and we don't have one of those to kick around
trinque: that to me clearly points out the role of power in human life
cazalla: jurov, those warnings are the fucking things i've been getting every 2-3 weeks for months
trinque: lisps must occur where there were men orders of magnitude better than their contemporaries, such that the contemporaries barely had any idea what they were doing there
asciilifeform: jurov: it isn't in therealbitcoin
trinque: I recall someone making the point that there can be greater distance between men than men and animals
asciilifeform: jurov: i spoke of this earlier. it isn't a gavinsignal in the usual sense, but is produced by the crud where version numbers in incoming messages are averaged and compared
trinque: asciilifeform: had a thought earlier driving around re: your observation that there are lisps in many fields: a high water mark reached, then from which retreated.
jurov: mircea_popescu: another 0.9.1 runs fine for months, only with "errors" : "Warning: This version is obsolete, upgrade required!"
pete_dushenski: there has to be someone halfway up mt sinai, playing broken telephone between moses and the golden calf lovers.
pete_dushenski: hopefully others learning alongside !
pete_dushenski: one who enjoys making a public hash of things, just to let them breathe, then correct
mircea_popescu: he writes these posts in the full knowledge that they'll be like... "NONE OF YOUR DIGITS ARE RIGHT MATE!!!. it's not 4, it's 3. not .0 but .1. not .x0 but .x4. not .xx0 but .xx1. not .xxx0 but .xxx5. etc.
mircea_popescu: to encourage people not to drive themselves mad.
trinque: man I kinda like that... putting tasks which need done in terms of that which they deprive the republic
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol this break is exactly the point i'm making on my 'second crack' update
mircea_popescu: not unlike trying to approximate pi on the basis of fortran four.
mircea_popescu: much like bitcoin finance is so slippery, even for the best financial minds.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nonstandard stuff is nonstandard, disruption is disruption. the bitcoin (tmsr~) management model is simply difficult to grok
asciilifeform: there is so much 'to do' that you could eat with arse!
mircea_popescu: what measures could they be ? shift the active from this to that, therefore disrupting this now ?
asciilifeform is rather perplexed. who, exactly, is lacking for 'what to do' ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski as an exercise for you : what is the difference between the disruption caused by the absence of the comrade joke webcomic, which nobody has started yet, and the disruption caused by the absence of x service, which equally doesn't exist but at some point did ?
mircea_popescu: the chan is REPLETE with shit to do.
mircea_popescu: there, stuff for people to do. lol.
mircea_popescu: italians only woke up to the model a half millenium later, but basically doing the same.
mircea_popescu: spend persia's money, spend rome's money, spend turks money, spend british money, spend usian money, they will spend someone else's money.
williamdunne: trinque: Thought I'd read something about them not being willing to do so, can't find it now though so probably the effects of alcohol
mircea_popescu: the greeks have exactly zero incentive to do anything other than "housewife" and haven't, for ~2300 years now.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne no dude. greece has the african scam down pat.
trinque: from within the wotnet I may (depending on its design) be able to explicitly delegate the hosting task to some other trusted party should I be absent
cazalla: pete_dushenski, be specific because i go so far as to exclude the monthly reports from the word counts
trinque: pete_dushenski: part of the answer to the question of making the republic's bot services fault tolerant is getting them within a damn wotnet
assbot: Logged on 27-06-2015 21:21:25; mircea_popescu: yes, but the deliberate design of incentive structures is a bad idea.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1179302 << it certainly leads to, how shall i put it, "wordiness" on qntra. certainly not all the time, but that's the temptation.
williamdunne: Massive decline or outright collapse, followed by the rise of a Nazi party or similar?
asciilifeform: when they can - will.
asciilifeform: that they aren't breathing $5/litre air is only a matter of technological limitations.
asciilifeform: google folks should prepare for the 5000/mo tents.
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 17:05:14; mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174811 << ya << shit, there go my ocr skills!
pete_dushenski: either way, an *index* losing 19% in two weeks is 2008-level of panic
jurov: my favourite motto was lately "Historia meretrix vitae" .. on seeing these examples I'm thinking how to get it more...er.. penetrating
jurov: orly, nobody hunts the cocks?
mircea_popescu: the bison - genuinely died.
asciilifeform: genuine in the sense that 'i killed this bison myself'
jurov: dunno about reward there
mircea_popescu: rewards work well if they're genuine.
asciilifeform: hilde, the she-wolf of tildeschwitz
mircea_popescu: "I am Hilde, from the Most Serene Republic of Tilde"
mircea_popescu: The Most Serene Republic Of~ << this sounds great i gotta say.
mircea_popescu: (amusingly enough, romanian even has expression to describe this in man - "s-or catelit" ie, they've doggied themselves)
mircea_popescu: but very related. a spasm is always at the root of both
gribble: Vaginismus: Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment - WebMD: <http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/vaginismus-causes-symptoms-treatments>; Vaginismus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus>; When Sex Hurts – Vaginismus - SOGC: <http://sogc.org/publications/when-sex-hurts-vaginismus/>
mircea_popescu: (because of the tearing, vagal never innervation makes the smooth muscles over-reactive)
pete_dushenski: is providing something to hunt, or the directions to the hunting field, not 'incentive structure' ?
mircea_popescu: for that matter, people also need self-esteem. i'm not about to "provide" it for them, in vacu-sealed packages. and they need to hunt, which does not reduce to "i'ma let a half dozen naked girlies loose in their room see what happens". that's how rich people destroy their children.
pete_dushenski: hm. i have more mulling to do on the topic, it seems.
mircea_popescu: because the only thing it does is select for and breed rats.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the deliberate design of incentive structures is a bad idea.
pete_dushenski: sometimes financial, sometimes honourary, sometimes a million other things in a million other ways
mircea_popescu: i don't see why i'd want to have an equivalent of the mcd supervisor, calling people at home to remind them they work.
pete_dushenski: insert "may" in there, mentally
asciilifeform: i propose the standard unit of measure be '1 moiety'
mircea_popescu: "the demands of meatspace readily overwhelm the demands of #bitcoin-assets" << this is everyone's own measure to measure.
asciilifeform: and they don't feel like answering, so we can sorta guess!
mircea_popescu: for artists i suppose it's eulora work etc. there's really no shortage o shit to do.
mircea_popescu: atm the entry level thing for coders is, "follow the pogo thing, build along, test cases etc". for non-coders is, qntra.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: nvm, got the post-gun thing now
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: here's an unassigned gun for some eager fella: crap out an ibmpc buildroot for therealbitcoin. as in, something one could throw in the iso slot at a datacentre
asciilifeform: turned out, the 'fold your own' thing resulted in too many (from pov of command) splats.
mircea_popescu: i think most everyone's using github or w/e - but it wouldn't maybe be such a bad idea to start putting deeds out with the code bundles. with instructions. "run this so and so"
asciilifeform: phun phakt: my father was conscripted into a parachutist regiment. and by that time (late '60s) schmucks were no longer! permitted to fold their own.
mircea_popescu: other than that, published code is a good idea, sure. but also - anything is its maker property, and the people in question makin things can best decide what to do with it.
mircea_popescu: which is why gi joe is so useless in the field.
asciilifeform: of course folks often forget the other thing about the parachute thing - in sov army, they usedta make you sign it, 'i folded this parachute myself. signed, pvt. schmuck'
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, there is great benefit to being antipattern countercultural when being a guerilla.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i have nfi what you're proposing, but my thinking is that it's more expensive and less productive to think proactively rather than reactively.
mircea_popescu: there is a "no undies - i wanna be able to fondle your cunt" rule, but s'about all.
mircea_popescu: at some point travelling i was like "fuck it, WHO CARES what time they thinkg it is."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's a wonder i even managed to make the conference at all. i haven't had a watch or aty allcared about time in a decade.
asciilifeform: or buried alive with the thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ahaha if it turns out this was actually written by poor ms indian slavebois, who kept anon simply because of the draconing IP contracts thery had signed...
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1179126 << i have them too, the result is that i sometimes forget to sleep./
mircea_popescu: i just amply dislike ~the design~ of it.
asciilifeform: if you just want it in some other dir, symlink...
mircea_popescu: this without going into why the wallet.dat, after being plaintext for a coupla years, was only half-ass encryupted.
asciilifeform: wallet has to be sawn off as discussed in the past
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw in the spirit of the "connect" issue : having public and private data separate is iirc not supported STILL. you gotta keep the wallet.dat in same place you keep the blockchain. gold help you if you want it encrypted.
mircea_popescu: as an absolute prerequisite to any sort of block increase we ABSOLUTELY MUST clean up these shit-stables
assbot: Smallest 80x25 PC display for less than $20 and other tiny screens ... ( http://bit.ly/1LuZkLq )
mircea_popescu: something to the tune of 30ish connections, which seems reasonable for a day old peer.
mircea_popescu: the advertised seeder has been working more or less ok - it's not being attacked more than is implicit in the protocol lol.
asciilifeform: there's precisely 1 thread that does actual werk
mircea_popescu: the cpu utilization is actually low, but the load is immense because i dunno wtf it does but something stupid.
asciilifeform: (yes, they're all porcine, but which hog? the little piglet, the muscular european boar, or the half-tonne monster fucked on midwest usa farms ..?)
mircea_popescu: we fucking forget. omfg the thing... no wonder nobody runs it. i doubt very much it can be run. like, at all.
mircea_popescu: the stock one.
mircea_popescu: in other news, omfg bitcoind is a hog.
asciilifeform: whatever happened to the dark future of robot slaves
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1179112 << don't be a noob. dishes are merely the expansion of an invisible slave empire. if you have jets you better have slave hands to go to the farmer market, and to fill the dishes, anbd to wash the dishes.
jurov: well. i am sending hashes in headers too, but getting anyone to use them...
mircea_popescu: assbot: Unwind Better on the Balcony of This 1BR/1BA Apartment Today! <<< ahahaha omfg.
mircea_popescu: what's the actual ux case for shortening it.
mircea_popescu: not like anyone types those by hand or tries to memorize them jurov
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1179158 << it's a hash. and chopping hashes is quite possibly how we ended up on planet with phuctorable keys in the first place!
mircea_popescu: Trustcenter_EU <trust@mch.sbs.de>; among the lulziest.
mircea_popescu: and in other news... 73.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1179073 << hey could it link to the actual key page rather than the rss ?
shinohai: @ asciilifeform I made a phuctored command for my bot so I can always see the latest keys
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell lobbes can haz the url of phuctored key preserved in bot ? ty
asciilifeform: the ones for live customers in jp are a bit cushier iirc
jurov: and i do use them to have darkness like in coffin :D
jurov: when i got a window fixed some months ago, asked them to add external blinds
asciilifeform: well yes. sleep in coffin, then get up, pub.
asciilifeform: open vault, squeeze in, sleep (or watch movies on the little screen)
asciilifeform: looks sorta like the multi-'resident' mausoleums in b-a cemetery
asciilifeform: jurov: the bleeding edge of this, as i understand, is jp, where you can live in a kind of 'coffin'
asciilifeform: yes, you can live there...
assbot: Logged on 06-04-2014 14:59:26; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok. considering the what/how debate as accepted foundation : at any time there's a number of turkeys and a number of engineers.
asciilifeform: l0l the folks in 'silicon valley' live in a flophouse
mats: you won't get the lifestyle seen on HBO's Silicon Valley but it is workable
mats: there is not
asciilifeform: there's gotta be a catch
asciilifeform: mats: if you're willing to spend half the day in a car
asciilifeform: mats: many of the arguments against 'google dorm' don't hold water. e.g., the current 'collect 200k/y salary, give 180k/y to housing racket' system is just as impoverishing; 'lose your job, lose your housing' is just as true now for the fools paying those 180k to live in auto range of palo alto etc.; the squalor is just the same in the palo alto 'efficiency' flat as in any dorm; and so forth
mats: software company that puts interns in such dorms for the summer
asciilifeform: 'giving the handle' is how pedos came to play their seemingly disproportionate share in all american structures, from sport clubs to state governments
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2014 00:04:59; asciilifeform: pierce << ideal example of the animal described on one of mircea_popescu's essays - he could be packed into prison for life, any time, based on what's in his file. so he does as instructed.
assbot: Logged on 27-06-2015 03:32:52; decimation: he has some interesting posts relating chinese history: https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2015/06/06/giving-the-handle/
punkman: common in china though, works well for them
mod6: when I get a chance, i'll see if there is anything to be done about it. (if anyone has any suggestions, let me know)
asciilifeform: chetty doesn't need one, lives in the meat b-a
mats: it helps that i have a window open for this channel most of the day
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: bitcoin v0.5.3.1-RELEASE + patches { http://thebitcoin.foundation/doxygen/v0_5_3_1-wPatchesApplied/v0531-wPatchesApplied.txt }: bitcoin/src/protocol.cpp File Reference ... ( http://bit.ly/1eP1XeR )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/doxygen/v0_5_3_1-wPatchesApplied/protocol_8cpp.html << do you know of a way to constrain the width of the graphical diagrams ? (such that they might fit on a reasonable display...)
assbot: The Dukes of Hazzard S03E18 By-Line, Daisy Duke - Video Dailymotion ... ( http://bit.ly/1JpzrgF )