gribble: brendafdez was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 14 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 33 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <brendafdez> mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering.
assbot: Ad fraud Trojan updates Flash Player so that other malware can't get in | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1HJwxkF )
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.itworld.com/article/2944275/ad-fraud-trojan-updates-flash-player-so-that-other-malware-cant-get-in.html < lulzy trojan uses flash exploit and then helpfully updates flash after infection
bagels7: well I was into IT then I got a sign from god and went a different path, physical, mental and spiritual fitness. body/mind/spirit all well
mats: how goes the money changing
trinque: huh... then when disconnecting and reconnecting with tmux, gone.
trinque: hm I wonder if this tmux session actually predates copying the termcap
trinque: copied over the termcap, which sort of helped
decimation: yeah it turns out tmux is very picky about the terminal you are using when you create it
trinque: I haven't been able to see non-ascii since I put the weechat instance on obsd
decimation: decided to shit web browser logs from another buffer into chan
decimation: I wasn't hitting anything other C-x b
decimation: alright, that's the end of my adventure with erc
BingoBoingo: Bouncer aimed in the wrond direction?
decimation: 00:06:36 mircea_popescu: leaving aside the inept spin they published, why the fuck are we pricing things in dollars.
decimation: 00:06:24 mircea_popescu: "Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so,
decimation: 00:05:37 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 19:49:35; shinohai: mod6: if you want another auto.sh, I'll try and help you when I understand this new build xD
assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 19:49:35; shinohai: mod6: if you want another auto.sh, I'll try and help you when I understand this new build xD
decimation: 00:05:37 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185652 << i really gotta post ak47.sh to the ml
decimation: 00:02:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187220 << so are they :D
decimation: 00:01:03 mircea_popescu: because yes, we're fucktarded enough to not notice what's proposed here is a closed f2pool - antpool loop. they're over there in their own
decimation: 00:00:40 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners
decimation: f2pool admin's explanation is "we got the bad block from antpool, who we don't know how they got because they told us they only follow us"
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...
decimation: 00:00:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187182 << add lying schmucks to a degree not experienced since kindergarten on pirate island. the
asciilifeform: decimation: one of them was 'radio room'
decimation: asciilifeform: no pictures of the radio room?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: unless i seriously misunderstand, 50%+ of the hash rate belongs to folks ~who aren't even running bitcoin~ but a toystore version
trinque: I like this approach because there's both an interface that is "fast" and also one that is accurate
trinque: mats: could write a view that generates your stats, then a materialized view which is refreshed at an interval with "refresh materialized view" or w/e it is
asciilifeform: incidentally, today i invented (hypothetical) very cheap 'clock': an sram with a beta source glued on top
mats: trinque: spec calls for displaying stats, which would probably require caching because pgsql reads from disk otherwise
asciilifeform: the thing barely survives today, much less ww3
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: or the survivors simply sign, on parchment, with their privkeys, ..., etc
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: in that scenario, bitcoin either dies with the last remaining man, or the beloved 'hardfork'.
asciilifeform: (in gedankenexperiment above, 'mine the remaining blocks' oughta be understood to mean 'mine all the blocks with substantial blockreward')
trinque: mats: in my experience postgresql can do anything those other piles of shit can
trinque: mats: depending on the situation, maybe a materialized view is called for
mats: i'm exploring the option of _not_ using additional things like redis or memcache
asciilifeform: i really fail to grasp for what, precisely, it is, that we need the possibility of falling difficulty.
asciilifeform: yes, this means that martians can land, mine the remaining blocks in five minutes, and leave earth a smoking and bitcoinless crater
asciilifeform: difficulty oughta have been defined in relation to the difficulty of the last solved block, solely.
asciilifeform: for the record, i think this design is asinine
asciilifeform: what was the ruined dream
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Really as fragile as the thing is atm fuckers ruined my dreams << twas a good dream
asciilifeform: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=/UMD-Coinscope:0.0 << node mentioned much earlier, the one run by the umd dept. of sc4mz4tr0n1cs
asciilifeform: on account of being the only node on the planet that passes the idiots' 70001 filter while ~not having a useragent string~
asciilifeform: in the list
asciilifeform: we are, apparently, the #43 '- (1)'
asciilifeform: nottooshitty: read the thread. it doesn't matter where you put it - it can't be believed
asciilifeform: putin, is claimed, was actually on the phone with obama, congratulating, while they buzzed the coast
funkenstein_ can't wait to buy USD by the kilogram
asciilifeform: there can be no useful immediate response
mats: or just piss into the void
mats: am i supposed to parse the html or something for a response?
mats: asciilifeform: how am i to submit keys to phuctor without an api for the keyserver? just post?
asciilifeform: the dough was found in bank boxes, wouldn't even fit in the vault, was stored all over the place
asciilifeform: the bugger was an infamous 'moralist'
asciilifeform: in other nyooz that you will never read in english,
asciilifeform: mats: tried it on the non-winblowz one ?
mats: the exploit is interesting
trinque: mats: and so nice of google to ship that with their browser
asciilifeform: the chart ~must~ be semantically correct. this is not negotiable
asciilifeform: but then learned that it is retarded
asciilifeform: thought about using the output of 'lxr'
decimation: someone else can do the dirty work
trinque: clang looks like it might be the thing
asciilifeform: i am definitely not interested in the output of any proprietary, closed (esp. winblowz) proggy that produces c++ callgraphs
asciilifeform: neither of which is useful to me
decimation: what about clang? I thought stuff like this was the 'reason' it was built
decimation: asciilifeform: one would think the compiler writers would need such a thing
decimation: the virtual functions thing probably eliminates all halfass attempts to use a C based-tool
asciilifeform: dynamic graphs are useful for certain kinds of work, but is more or less the opposite of what i need here.
asciilifeform: or, in the case of dynamic graphs, may omit some corner case which didn't get hit
decimation: another reason why C++ sucks
decimation: note that there are plenty of tools that would work for C
asciilifeform: unrelated: folks competing for mircea_popescu's 1 btc prize for therealbitcoin callgraph can strike 'egypt' utility off the list. it is a worthless pile of shit, which produces worthless piles of shit (at least for cpp proggy)
decimation: point being, someone derives time (the iers) from astronomy, sets the cesium, and broadcasts it
asciilifeform is aware of the 'leap second' bullshit
asciilifeform: (which is the actual iso std)
decimation: time (for the moment) still derived from the earth's rotation around the sun (and date by its orbit)
asciilifeform: entirely separate problem from the one we have
decimation: watching bodies pass in front of other bodies
decimation: asciilifeform: one could verify that one has the correct time by observing occultations
asciilifeform: chainph0rk never prospers, for the reason, that if it prospers, none dare call it treason (tm) (r)
decimation: pete_dushenski: I assume you are still using the stock uboot which ascii suspects?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Haven't seen people talking blockheight. Really as fragile as the thing is atm fuckers ruined my dreams of blockheight as "canonical" measure of time
decimation: interesting. I didn't see any updates on openbsd saying that the nfs turd was no longer needed
asciilifeform: ditto for their radio 'ufo', which i bitched about but then got 'openwrt' running on it
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo "The second fork persisted from 21:50 through to 23:40 on July 5th, 2015" << should include blockheight, neh ?
assbot: Unless all major miners begin mining with fully validating node software... users of the latest versions of "Bitcoin Core" are at risk of finding themselves Altcoiners : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1fiHTl5 )
assbot: its_bitney_bitch comments on How far behind are we due to the "stress test"? ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5m3Z9 )
trinque: asciilifeform: #2 sounds like another case of bad psych meds
BingoBoingo: ^ Hypothesis on one resolution path posited
scoopbot_revived: Another Post BIP 66 Fork Dies after 3 Blocks http://qntra.net/2015/07/another-post-bip-66-fork-dies-after-3-blocks/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190150 << not sure if this is technically correct - there is, i think, room for another leading '9' !
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i did my 'edgerouter' by building on pc and copying to the stick, yes
asciilifeform: which is why i'd like to banish the block index to disk. so that the 128m of ram can be freed up to cache disk ~as required~
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 23:23:15; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188147 << now that you mention it, it occurs to me that my 0.7.2 node had been fully synched (until the recent wedge) running on a single 5400 rpm drive and 8 gigs of ram
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190196 << it is very, very easy to use almost arbitrarily slow disk if you have ram for the kernel to cache it with
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190162 << please consider modifying the proggy to print running block count, so i can try to replicate
decimation: if you are saying otherwise than that is good
decimation: pete_dushenski: I thought that openbsd didn't support the usb storage driver for edgerouter
pete_dushenski: first you unplug the usb drive from inside the edgerouter, plug it into your computer, install openbsd on it, unpack it, reinstall the drive in the edgerouter, establish a serial connection, and start talking.
TomServo: But last I read booting OpenBSD required booting over the network, rather than install on the USB drive due to lack of a USB driver
pete_dushenski: TomServo i found another computer with a serial port that actually talked to the serial cable i have. the usb adapter i bought was b0rked.
TomServo: pete_dushenski: Didja find a way to boot OpenBSD on the edgerouter from USB or are you using the nfs boot option?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:51:35; ascii_field: just opening that plastic box is already adding more labour cost than everything we previously considered to be involved in setup put together
pete_dushenski: looking forward to seeing tequilahead becoming the 8th greek finance minister in 5 years.
assbot: I'm the author of The Bitcoin Revolution: An Internet of Money and founder of Diginomics, Ask Me Anything! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5e12x )
pete_dushenski: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3cbuq1/im_the_author_of_the_bitcoin_revolution_an/ << oh travis tequilahead, how the mighty "thought leader" has fallen. you've stumbled from writing on your own blog to hacking up scamdesk, and now all the way down to the very bottom of the barrel with reddit. all in the course of, what, 2 weeks ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: "CoinbaseAdrian 30 points an hour ago* : Sorry guys, we're looking into this. It appears to be an issue with our network provider (Cloudflare). We have an urgent ticket open with them and I'll update here with any details." << response to coinbase being offline
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu please consider posting your blkxxxx which encompass the two most recent forks
ascii_field: incidentally, for anyone who missed, the public node is working and synced
ascii_field: punkman: keyserver is presumably for use as a keyserver, rather than place to hang the severed heads of pwned folks ?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 21:11:18; thestringpuller: ascii_field: did you get past the wedge yet in 0.5.3.x? or do you still not have access to a node?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo seems that the "yanis gaming industry" link was added twice in the same (3rd) paragraph
pete_dushenski: all that 'dignity' and yet no bread on the table
punkman: pete_dushenski: "in which Greek citizens refused to accept austerity measures" in case it wasn't clear, the referendum question was "do you like this deal? answer yes or no". and the next deal won't be much different either.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: did you get past the wedge yet in 0.5.3.x? or do you still not have access to a node?
punkman: I don't even want to know how much tax the owner is paying on that
ascii_field: the 'gutter oil' restaurants, etc
ascii_field: who hasn't seen the rivers (literally) of toxic sludge
mircea_popescu: ascii_field in fairness that's how they saw china too
pete_dushenski: "Most of those new lines of code come from “the new amd gpu register description header”, code that Torvalds says comprises “41 per cent of the entire patch” and has created a “... somewhat odd situation where a single driver is about half of the whole rc1 in number of lines.”"
ascii_field: a place to farm to death, to the bedrock
ascii_field: i suppose all the 'proper confucians' with millenium-long time cocks are employed as colonels in pla or whatnot
ascii_field: these folks' time horizon is perhaps... 2 weeks long ?
mircea_popescu: of course they are.
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 22:28:31; mircea_popescu: anyway, the main sufferance in my head atm is that reading the chinese stuff (in translation) clarifies in my head an objection that may well be a second major flaw to the protocol, after the "relay nodes gotta do it for the glory" : its altogether unclear a purely financial incentive is the correct solution for miners.
ascii_field: incidentally, does anyone else suspect that cn miners, on account of their microscopic profit margins, are ripe for usgization ?
ascii_field: trinque: because then you can be attacked in various ways
jurov: even if multicore, there's still i/o
trinque: ascii_field: http://deedbot.org/stator-lcov/bitcoin/bitcoin/src/main.cpp.gcov.html << line #1265 appears to check for being in the future, not past
ascii_field: as (i think it was) mircea_popescu pointed out, it looks like the miners have not been sufficiently darwined yet
ascii_field: 'Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining...' << can haz network without 50% hash power belonging to diagnosable retarded folks plz ??!!
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't make any further sense.
ascii_field: why couldn't the difficulty be set based on accumulated work ?
mircea_popescu: because bitcoin is secured by mining which happens irl and the difficulty of mining is set on the basis of irl entropy.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 20:03:11; ascii_field: probably the only Right Thing (tm) solution is to somehow cleanse bitcoin of its dependence on wall time entirely
trinque digs further
trinque: the message processing story in bitcoin is a shitshow
pete_dushenski: "Reports that the situation has passed are not correct. Please continue to wait 30 more confirmations than you usually would wait before accepting a transaction."
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski will the lulz never cease.
ascii_field: there's gotta be a way out.
pete_dushenski: "6 July 04:00: A new fork occurred starting 5 July at 21:30 with three blocks before the valid chain again became the strongest chain."
mircea_popescu: so it does. there's no way out,.
mircea_popescu: just as long as we put THE REAL TIME as a txn in every block, pogos can be fine
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189862 << you know there COULD be something here.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:53:03; ascii_field: right now, our pictured supply chain looks like 'any pogo -> any ethernet jack'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189820 << well, and some "follow this text file with instructions for the software part". but yes.
ascii_field: did nobody ever discuss the time thing? i have trouble believing this
decimation puts 'celesial navigation' on the library list
mircea_popescu: he thought that everyone will run one and so it'll be too noisy to follow them.
decimation: ascii_field: I wonder if satoshi thought that these nodes would be anonymous?
trinque goes to inspect the function which does this
trinque: anyone clear on whether it's +/- 2hrs or what I said?
ascii_field: and the 1% - .cn
decimation: in the existing network, I suspect 99% of the miners are using ntpd traceable to some usg organ
decimation: right, but that requires a trusted way to ask a bitcoind "what's the timestamp of the last verified block'
ascii_field: is there a notion of p2p time.
decimation: essentially there isn't such a thing as p2p time
mike_c: markets break over the stupid leap second
ascii_field: they will get apologies and a coupon for free blowjob at community whorehouse
ascii_field: decimation: other users might not even notice
decimation: ascii_field: but that would come at the cost of fucking *all clocks for all users*
ascii_field: i would like this to ~not~ be the case
ascii_field: because right now, hitler has, essentially, a button that makes just about the whole btc network shit its pants
ascii_field: this is who owns them ~now~
trinque: you can of course accept a block from the past
trinque: ascii_field: is it +/- 2hrs or is it no more than 2hrs in the future?
mike_c: i was trying to think of some way to use the block hash to determine "who" you ask for timestamps, but the list of "who" is unknowable/proveable.. ends up in the same place.
ascii_field: but in ~both~ cases there is no protection from mitm
ascii_field: there is only 'addnode' and 'connect'
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:27:32; ascii_field: jurov: realize that, at the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from the seedlist
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189717 << i have no idea why the 2nd set would even exist.
trinque: ascii_field: and then going down that route, anyone can diddle his pogo soon as it's in hand
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:54:46; ascii_field: they could still attempt to filter, but it would have to be an open declaration of war. something the gavinists are rather averse to
ascii_field: if they all give the same time, it is probably because hitler killed the others and took their keys
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, I think that is the only possible way to avoid having a magic central something
decimation: not sure about the signed part though, need to look into that
ascii_field: the point i've been trying to make is ~not~ 'let's all go eat our pistols' but that the entire fiction of political time is poisonous when applied to bitcoin
ascii_field: decimation: the point is that these 'places' are central points of failure, and are even now controlled by the enemy
decimation: I find the magic box unneeded when I can get rsa signed time from a variety of places via ntp
trinque: could you encode the time into it?
trinque: ascii_field: the script itself could be both properly signed and invalid right?
ascii_field: and now you've throttled the pogo to 10/100
ascii_field: and what is the thing to do until it hears it ?
decimation: that serves time via ntp server and has a push-button input on the front panel
trinque: ascii_field: what's wrong with the idea of signaling via specially crafted txn?
decimation: if we are this paranoid about it, the only solution I can think of is to ship a separate box with an ethernet port
ascii_field: probably the only Right Thing (tm) solution is to somehow cleanse bitcoin of its dependence on wall time entirely
ascii_field: i am looking forward to hearing of some answer other than soldering iron or gossipd
decimation: okay if we are taking it that level, then you really need non-network time
jurov: then you painted yourself to a corner and need tiny webserver for user to set time manually
ascii_field: whether a block can be 'latest' depends on local time!
ascii_field: there is no such thing as a 'trusted node'
decimation: why not write a lightweight client that gets the time from trusted bitcoind node network?
ascii_field: jurov probably noticed that just moving one of these from america to europe doubles the cost.
ascii_field: if there is 'monkey' in between those, add many times the cost in transportation at the least.
ascii_field: right now, our pictured supply chain looks like 'any pogo -> any ethernet jack'
ascii_field: jurov: involving ~any~ monkey at all is astronomically outside of what we expected the cost to be.
decimation: sorry for the munged spacing :(
decimation: actually happens on linux as I understand. there's a thing
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:49:17; mircea_popescu: ascii_field i have nfi why unixtime "locales" are implemented so braindamagedly anyway. all machines should have the same exact integer for time. then if you wish to localize it, localize it on top of that
jurov: surely there are monkeys around that can solver that
ascii_field: just opening that plastic box is already adding more labour cost than everything we previously considered to be involved in setup put together
jurov: http://www.dx.com/p/ds1302-real-time-clock-module-blue-151999#.VZrNH5R9zmE and plenty of others there
ascii_field: and shows that the gavinists are busy bees, stuffing the britneychain full of liquid shit
kakobrekla: the chain is down, not site
kakobrekla fuckin hates the days when he has to worry about britneychain
ascii_field: it appears to be utterly impossible to obtain the key components outside of cn