mircea_popescu: there is at least one million of them. i have stopped even trying to count past 100k last year.
mircea_popescu: dude get out, they're the website of 2015. every two bit 20something schmuck with two friends and a girlfriend has started one, last year.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 15:44:41; mircea_popescu: they're lucky anyone at all wants to work for them as it is.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193223 << there are not so many of these.
jurov: even if you specify in most precise detail how to do stuff without side effects, you still have to hold its hand in order to not exhaust the memory
jurov: if i learned anything from my haskell stint, it's how computer is utterly bad to manage its memory and other resources
williamdunne: One of the "lizardsquad" guys just got charged with 50,700 offences
gabriel_laddel: Now, I think the "language constructs" map directly to routing logic, so the AST "unrolls" onto the hardware
gabriel_laddel: jurov: the routing can't be that difficult
ben_vulpes: you say that as though there were an option.
gabriel_laddel: I suggest you don't contemplate the loper device.
ben_vulpes: now on one hand that this thing doesn't give programmers any handles to alter test data is fine, in that it forces one to either work in a js repl or you know /actually write tests/
ben_vulpes: one can configure post-commit hooks in git, but their logic importer a) only works with github and b) only works with public repositories.
ben_vulpes: their sandbox provides precisely one map of dummy data.
ben_vulpes: there is a SaaS that handles users for people who for whatever reason don't want to stand up their own services and servers.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: let me tell you of the salt mines of my homeworld...
mircea_popescu: the world is not my fault!
mircea_popescu: the sovietism is tovarash
gabriel_laddel: oh, sorry, I should have made it clear I was referring to the child pornography thing
williamdunne: You've got to connect the CAT 3 BSD cable into your Universal Parallel Networking port and install the latest ApacheBSD drivers, and then BGP route your HardDrive into the global local network, repeating these steps for each computer on the network. And once this is complete you plug cables into each of your available body holes and pray for IP issuance, prior to jamming each cable into your nearest USB hub
gabriel_laddel: what are cat cables and how do I network computers together without a web browser.
gribble: THE SCATMAN - Scatman John HD1080p - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6oXW_YiV6g>; Scatman (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-bop) Official Video HD -Scatman John ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8kmNEo1i8>; Scatman John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatman_John>
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skat | skat. taking a shit in someones mouth and having them eat it. I love getting a big load of skat in my mouth its so good. by skat eater September 20, 2003. 419 333.
williamdunne: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193046 << nah, I wasn't the one being asphyxiated, and the marks are not the result of it
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193153 << better than the queen gets.
mircea_popescu: they are the exact equivalent of materiel. the humvees the usg lost to isis work for isis just as well.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:24:07; asciilifeform: after the current set gets ddt sprayed on them
mircea_popescu: nah jurov i recall people using their own tools for that throughout
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would they fire anyone ?
jurov: mircea hit that with bitbet payouts, there's vitriolic trilema piece somewhere
funkenstein_: http://pastebin.com/EdtwCsw1 <-- just for fun i made signed 250kb TX sending 11 millies from "cat" spam address to thebitcoin.foundation treasury
mats: the end is nigh
asciilifeform: i doubt they need as many as 700
asciilifeform: decimation: just how many people does the redmond beast need to collect winblowz rent and craft 'bugs' ?
decimation: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/07/08/report-big-job-cuts-expected-microsoft/29853657/ "Microsoft's deal to acquire Nokia's handset business in 2013 -- one of the last acts of outgoing CEO Steve Ballmer -- has been a "head-scratcher" from the beginning, says FBR Capital Markets analyst Daniel Ives."
asciilifeform: but it will continue to suck in all sorts of other financial garbage and use it to spew forth Euros without comment, keeping other European countries on financial life support simply because they aren't Greece.'
asciilifeform: ries in line... Add to this a double-helping of double standards. The IMF won't lend to Greece because it requires some assurance of repayment; but it will continue to lend to the Ukraine, which is in default and collapsing rapidly, without any such assurances because, you see, the decision is a political one. The European Central Bank no longer accepts Greek bonds as collateral because, you see, it considers them to be junk;
asciilifeform: '...Greece's creditors refuse to consider declaring all of this bad debt null and voidnot because of anything having to do with Greece, which is small enough to be forgiven much of its bad debt without causing major damage, but because of Spain, Italy and others, which, if similarly forgiven, would blow up the finances of the entire European Union. Thus, it is rather obvious that Greece is being punished to keep other count
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 12:18:05; funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin
thestringpuller: cazalla: BingoBoingo http://www.comcastro.com/podcast-virtual-currency-bitcoin-new-world-order-stevie-frederick/ << i did a qntra shoutout there
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Ten Years After - I'd Love To Change The World (lyrics) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NShKVE )
bagels7: Hi, does anyone happen to know the title of that trilema article that explains how women are immature and basically blame men for their shortcomings
punkman: kakobrekla: no, but I've been there a few times
funkenstein_: the problem of what kind of clock foot soldier P needs depends on exact specification of role foot soldier P needs to play
funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin
ag3nt_zer0: "But getting the game into a person's hands immediately after they have been raped, for example, won't always be practical, so the team tested whether it could still work a day later – after the memory had been consolidated and slept on." haha
mircea_popescu: anyway, hopefully they manage to prop it, because if they do not and people start unwinding us holdings on the grounds of the massive yuan profits to be thus made, that's that.
mircea_popescu: imagine what will happen if month later no china crash is seen? but USA has advantage that it will never feel shame. one lie does not come true, there is another one. and in the end they can still say china has hacked usa without any evidences. Repeating lies 1000 times, it becomes truth. that is how USA invaded Iraq.
punkman: lots of greek banks in the balkans, I wonder what's gonna happen with those
assbot: Tetris blocks traumatic flashbacks even after the memory is fixed - health - 06 July 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjR4mf )
punkman: I'll stock up on Tetris http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27846-tetris-blocks-traumatic-flashbacks-even-after-the-memory-is-fixed.html
punkman: "The eurozone has given Greece until Thursday to present new proposals to secure a deal with creditors, and has called a full EU summit for Sunday."
trinque: meanwhile they did not do the one thing that might've been interesting (that I can see), which would've been to fire pg_notify events when the results of a given view change
trinque: all they did can be done with triggers, background workers and materialized views
asciilifeform: until then, it's voodo
asciilifeform: what i meant was, i'd like to see a rational calculation of why the freq.
asciilifeform: essentially you want the entire network to have a 'resonant frequency'
ben_vulpes: players vs. the game. conversation in ars.
asciilifeform: basic idea involves 'left-handed' and 'right-handed' miners, with game-theoretical reward matrix of being one depending on the first derivative in the hashing power of the other.
decimation: sounds like it would involve incrementing the protocol version
asciilifeform: the solution is to force the miners themselves into behaving like a pendulum with a period from which they, collectively, deviate at their peril.
asciilifeform: i linked to it to illustrate the sheer batshit
asciilifeform: it is clearly not the solution
asciilifeform: at least, clocks in the usual political sense.
decimation: I have a few sketches for such a thing, but I can't get around the problem of fixed keys that need to be distributed to listeners
decimation: the idea of a crypto-radio-clock intrigues me
asciilifeform: i suspect that mircea_popescu might answer that it is for the next set of miners
decimation: if 99% of miners use usg time, what's the use of wot-time?
asciilifeform: and the wall time i want to know is specifically his
decimation: this only emphasizes the point that there needs to be alternate communication media available
asciilifeform: but these do not add up to a trustworthy clock.
asciilifeform: rsa also exists, and this prevents certain other spurious items
decimation: but is applicable to the entire bitcoin enterprise equally
asciilifeform: if we were in space war, could probably carry on with something like the naive notion of clocks
decimation: how is this not the case?
asciilifeform: chunk of meat in the desert, that flies have not found yet
decimation: if your point is that they are centrally disciplined that's probably true
asciilifeform: the thing is a house of cards
asciilifeform: try to grasp the difference
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> phf: No, not yet. On OpenBSD I'm running an 0.7.2 derivative with LibreSSL 2.0 just to see how it behaves. << how's the libressl build going?
asciilifeform: just so happens that the universe is 'bad hardware' for that.
asciilifeform: i am trying - and apparently failing - to make the point that there is no such thing as 'good hardware' for finding out 'what time' it is on ~my~ atomic clock from across an ocean.
decimation: ultimately there's no substitute for good hardware
asciilifeform: decimation: re: 'round trip' ntp - you still are at the mercy of local clock's accuracy when computing the trip time
asciilifeform: then swear with your life that it's 100% covered
asciilifeform: this is what 25 yrs of winblowz did to the mind
asciilifeform: the reason, afaik, why 'defuse with key' did not catch on is a ~well-founded~ distrust of computer
asciilifeform: 'get killed 10 times' is actually doing pretty well ahead of the curve!
asciilifeform: there is a certain statistic for how many have, e.g., 1sec fuse
mircea_popescu: a 99.999% success rate is the last thing you want.
asciilifeform: rather, because winblowz
asciilifeform: the 'safe defuse with key' thing already exists
mircea_popescu: i'd like land mines like that. so would every army out there.
asciilifeform: decimation: not only classic, but so cliche that there are 1,001 commercial copies
decimation: maybe the land mine reboots you
decimation: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-mob-technology-consultants-help-drug-traffickers/ < "The device they built looked like a European version of a power strip. Tucked inside a 15-by-5-inch casing was a tiny Linux computer running powerful hacking software called Metasploit. The pwnie sent out data via cellular networks, which meant they could be accessed from anywhere."
ben_vulpes: and they *can* bless a pogo.
mircea_popescu: also in the news : the well rounded education. http://41.media.tumblr.com/00c3d0c2cdb22bedb8754888b020266e/tumblr_mtfjsjpKCf1ryftdoo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many, many more people who can 'commandeer' a broom closet with ethernet
decimation: I view the firewall/nat problem as much bigger
asciilifeform: and have them operate
asciilifeform: there is also cuckoldry aspect here
mircea_popescu: but notice that this does not run as far as the previous
asciilifeform: and if it has to be blessed with the magical breath of life of intelligence every time mains power flickers, it is a proverbial 'assembly line requiring ph.d.s' to borrow from al schwartz
mircea_popescu: what you want is the alleged minialfs who exist. people who supposedly could use the head, but somehow magically "not enough fuel"
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> point of pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin. << no. well meaning stupid is the LAST thing we want. i'd rather import us academia.
mircea_popescu: and if they fail to find it, or to take it, you have no case.
mircea_popescu: and the followin line does not follow. some intelligent people are poor, or more to wit : some poor people are (allegedly) intelligent. i doub this is true. but if it were, pogo is their way out.
asciilifeform: there is not actually a way out of this
decimation: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/onwire.html The symmetric modes operate using a sequence of rounds, each consisting of a transmit packet followed by a receive packet, but either of both of these packets could be lost. A round is correct if both packets are correctly received. In order to verify correctness of the protocol, it is necessary to prove a liveness assertion; that is, the protocol always yields a correct round even if after
asciilifeform: but as soon as you ask another person 'what time is it' you are playing political games
asciilifeform: it is possible to count the pulses of a pulsar, of cesium atom, of quartz, etc
asciilifeform: all of this goes back to the 'protocol vs promises' discussion
decimation: plus the behaviour of one node over time
asciilifeform: comparing a subset of your field of vision with the rest does nothing against the latter.
asciilifeform: in my expected battlefield, chances are that either none of your links are sybils, or ALL OF THEM ARE
asciilifeform: nor do we get the luxury of precise, predictable delta from that world.
asciilifeform: the accuracy doesn't matter because you have no way of knowing whether the above have been done to you
asciilifeform: picture the proverbial devil in the cable. he perhaps cannot diddle your packets (because you signed them, and have traded pubkeys in person) but he can... delay them
asciilifeform: and meet in the flesh to sync it ?
asciilifeform: (marvell chipset ~has~ rtc, but the vendor omitted the 32kHz crystal and power source.)
asciilifeform: because the thing drifts to all hell
asciilifeform: except then danielpbarron reminded us that this will have to happen regularly
decimation: this doesn't solve the "pogo clock is shit" problem
decimation: ben_vulpes: it seemed that there was some some concensus around the idea of randomly selecting a small set of ntp servers out of a large pre-defined set
asciilifeform: (and don't forget the merely lazy)
asciilifeform: point of pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin.
asciilifeform: then shouldn't have any interest in pogo
ben_vulpes: the thing is miserably bad anyways, why would anyone want to use it?
asciilifeform: if you plug block times into wall clock, letting the former adjust the latter, you've plugged arse into mouth
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they take place with wall clock as invariant
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: for the same reason pulling one's cock doesn't work as a means of flight
ben_vulpes: http://people.csail.mit.edu/hofma/Assets/Thesis_12_02_2005.pdf << okay now this is cool
decimation: it's relatively warm because of the gulf stream
decimation: usg charges for their nautical almanacs
decimation: farther
decimation: yeah, and uk is even father
Vexual: decimation: sight redution tables for nother lats are avail from .mil in pdf
assbot: Long Term Almanac 2000-2050: For the Sun and Selected Stars With Concise Sight Reduction Tables, 2nd Edition: Geoffrey Kolbe: 9780914025108: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1HMFRnX )
decimation: you can calculate them yourself with winblows turdware and usg provided emphemeris data http://www.lunar-occultations.com/iota/occult4.htm
funkenstein_: for longitude, i believe there is a book by sobel or something
funkenstein_: well the latitude is easy
funkenstein_: reminds me of Eddie Murphy's grandmother: "What time is it?"
mats: i'm enjoying the tweets on that link, decimation
asciilifeform: perhaps it was the one who did 'across difficult country'
asciilifeform: i recall the liberast blogosphere laughing maniacally about this
asciilifeform: isn't that the fella who got 'beaten to death by accident' in a johannesburg police station ?
decimation: guy found tweets by black people in baltimore back during fourth of july 2011, when there was violence
decimation: funkenstein_: my favorite study of the issue: http://unamusementpark.com/2011/07/blacks-ruin-fourth-of-july-in-baltimore-media-censor-race/
decimation: so the self-serving bastards can come to the conclusion that those rednecks out in the sticks are the real racists
decimation: thus effectively discounting the liberal population centers
decimation: http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# < note that 'nigger' correlates with large black populations, similar for others
decimation: asciilifeform: note that the police are rarely punished for shooting innocents
asciilifeform: 'Mr. Schumer said a federal law requires toy or imitation guns to feature a highly visible orange mark at the end of the barrel to identify them as harmless. Since the phone case does not have the marker, he said, he would work with customs officials to block its import and sale.' << l0l! srsly?
asciilifeform: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/us/gun-shaped-iphone-case-is-a-terrible-idea-police-officials-warn.html << in other lulz
decimation: I guess it would be a useful as the map that nyt ran which indicated the density of racists over usa
asciilifeform: let's multiply width of unicorn's horn at its base by the length of yeti's cock
asciilifeform: what does one get from multiplying one work of fiction by another ?
decimation: but that would only capture a portion - it would exclude the portion magicked into existance by banks
decimation: you could multiply direct gov spending by the 'print factor'
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2014 13:57:29; asciilifeform: g: 'show me the real budget.' a: 'you're asking too much. that's off limits to you.'
williamdunne: trinque: Yes, his. Unless they're suggesting his stray garden chair could mysteriously strike someone down
asciilifeform: at this point, i don't regard any aspect of the whole orchestra as honestly measurable
decimation: that's theoretically measurable
decimation: the question is: how much of the money that is 'freshly printed' by the fed or a bank part of the wash dc bid?
trinque: "Mr Boria has been charged with mischief causing danger to life and could face further charges." << wait... his?
decimation: sure, folks would bid up assets, but the vast majority of bids in the wash dc area are 'zombies'
asciilifeform: the rent collectors don't sleep
asciilifeform: if folks moved there
decimation: trinque: sure, but it wouldn't be if people moved there
decimation: but 'cooperation' in moving together is much more expensive than 'defection' to the local area
decimation: everyone in your meatwot could probably get a better deal if they lived somewhere cheaper
assbot: The Market Place - An Anonymous Market Built To Enable Trustless Transactions. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZB4de )
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: I can't tolerate any of them currently. Blockchain.info is constantly broken, and all the others have these horrible gaudy interfaces.
decimation: wasn't that where the bctc guy lived?
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: When piuk rolled out blockchain.info it was the best block explorer. Once he stopped doing everything it swiftly went to shit and got Andreas'd
williamdunne: It really is remarkable how blockchain.info didn't go down the goxhole, they just consistently break
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i suspect that everybody who came from the factory with that vernier not glued down, is turning it, yes << 31337 social engineering
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: she will get laid that day. whereas 90%+ of normal-looking blokes - won't. << She apparently even managed to fuck this up. Reportedly gave friend sad handjob and blackmailed for attention the next day with promise of putting out eventually. Was driven to bar in the ghetto and left (could not run to vehicle in time to stop it)
decimation: 2 in the last 30 minutes
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect that everybody who came from the factory with that vernier not glued down, is turning it, yes
BingoBoingo: No, example. Drinking at the bar with some friends. One fire up "Tinder" girl with nice pictures takes a cab across the mississippi river and walk into the bar. Diameter more than half her height. Recognizes friend, friend has no idea who she is.
williamdunne: Drinking law in the UK is even more lax than I had realized
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: except none of that crud is operative, it works from an elementary 'pigeonhole theorem' - many cocks, few parking spots
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Are you suggesting that our tumblrina protagonist isn't witty, or special like the most specialist of snowflakes
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: hollywood gave them broken expectations. The moral they complain about is "look good get laid" when they take the worse insane moral of "the protagonist is witty and spechial"
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: I don't understand how they don't think "oh, maybe they'll be confused when they see me in person?"
BingoBoingo: I mean seriously here, the faces look different. Literally have to be using other people's pictures.
williamdunne: funkenstein_: In his defence, the litecoin solution actually seemed like a pretty good way to handle it
asciilifeform: https://blockchain.info/address/162TRPRZvdgLVNksMoMyGJsYBfYtB4Q8tM >> who typically gets these ?
williamdunne: Don't believe she was wearing someone else's face either
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Yeah, she was definitely the same person. Only the body was not what the angles would have you believe
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Here the pic/reality discrepancy is so bad in a lot of cases it is like a fat person killed a normal with similar hair and started living their life.
assbot: The current spam attack on Bitcoin is not economically feasible on Litecoin : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZywvF )
funkenstein_: speaking thereof: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ci25k/the_current_spam_attack_on_bitcoin_is_not/
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform changes gloves, gas mask filter << Shouldn't you step away from the cesium dust first?
asciilifeform: from ~other~ crackpot alt.
williamdunne: Aye, which was remarkable really. Didn't see any others. She was very nice and I still talk to her, but headshots and angles are good at lying
assbot: algorithms - How does the Kimoto Gravity Well regulate difficulty? - Bitcoin Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZy3tA )
asciilifeform: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21730/how-does-the-kimoto-gravity-well-regulate-difficulty << not related either to my idea or to pogo. mechanism used in one crackpot altcoin to dispense with need for absolute clock
asciilifeform: won't be earning any 'nobels', there is no way in heaven or hell that it could be retrofitted to bitcoin proper
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 02:03:34; mircea_popescu: decimation the problem of fitting real time to blocks is in fact going straight to the root of the world. solve it, get nobel.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1192570 << at the risk of 'fleischmanning', i will say a little about the concept even though i am not yet done working it out
mircea_popescu: the .. .baby face ?
ben_vulpes: and on top of that, his error rate cracking them open is probably zero. small sample size, but...
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> so much as opening pogo and touching inside multiplies the cost of the operation. << and yet mircea_popescu had this done
mircea_popescu: that'd be the problem.
funkenstein_: we can't know what procedure miners are using to set their own clocks
mircea_popescu: kneejerk the dwarf wtf!
mircea_popescu: the longest ACCEPTABLE chain wins.
funkenstein_: the longest chain wins