mircea_popescu: specifically, that if you wait for the "optimal" you're waiting forever.
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 19:29:12; mircea_popescu: the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:02:31; ascii_field: 'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193590 << he is basically saying http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-06-2015#1170141 and in that he is right. for the exact reason in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169850
BingoBoingo: <decimation> spacetime doesn't exist? << It isn't space or time, merely the manifold until it is intuited by the apperception
mircea_popescu: spacetime is an artefact of the observation being carried out.
decimation: also describing it as 'political time' when the policy is 'matches easily observable astronomical phenomena' seems a bit hyperbolic
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 18:06:08; ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193532 << no one can force them to know it was doxxed, either.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, nothing keeps you from keeping your own time.
BingoBoingo: I read the thread. closest I have to solutions are either Noping ft. meade off the earth into the sun or Noping out and taking stator to ALpha Centurai
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you have a tip re: how to make perfectly synchronized with one another rubidium clocks materialize in the existing $20 pogos, i'm all ears..
BingoBoingo: And the way to not drown might just be space ship
asciilifeform: right now we have the very different problem of how not to drown in own shit.
BingoBoingo: At somepoint though we will have the problem on when to start decelerating the starship lest we crashland into Alpha Centurai
asciilifeform: we, afaik, do not have those problems yet. must still graduate to them.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the fixation on physical clocks, astronomical magic, etc. is unproductive re: the original problem posed.
decimation: there is a description on how to derive time by measuring the moon's motion relative to other objects in the sky
funkenstein_: bad spellers of the world: untie!
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:03:08; mircea_popescu: "I've noticed certain repeating characteristic in the writing of many members of this forum: they construct grammatically correct sentences but absolutely disregard the underlying semantics: incoming vs. outgoing, local vs. remote, source vs. destination, etc. Here in regards to TCP/IP ports, but I observed that in regards to pretty much any technical issue."
ascii_field: funkenstein_: it's in the log
funkenstein_: i've never understood the philippino references i see here
BingoBoingo: Impact of my relay policy change on the network will be near nil, but policy is policy
ascii_field: rather than philippino meat puppets for-hire
ascii_field: thestringpuller: i'm not even certain that the 'ocean of complaint' consists of real people
ascii_field: thestringpuller: ask'em
thestringpuller: ascii_field: so what's the problem here?
trinque: the redditard mentality
trinque: ascii_field: reminds me of mircea_popescu's recent comments to the effect of roughly "We've done it! I exist!"
shinohai: sorry for the flood
ascii_field: when they cannot pay
ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them
ascii_field: for them, 'it broke'
ascii_field: trinque: not if you ask the tards
trinque: stress test seems to prove the system works from where I sit
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:12:24; trinque: it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193852 << the fucking market is there. nobody broke it. but to redditards, 'market won't supply me with free shit' == 'market has failed'
mats: 'i dun wanna hold gigs of "spam" on my drive, and nobody else does either'
ascii_field: as i pointed out before, it is being done for two disjoint reasons. one is so that hearn can write the turd linked above, re: 'it is crowded and we need blocks of $maxint size'
trinque: it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this
ascii_field: as per the protocol rules
ascii_field: (the tx sent to brainwallet('password') etc)
ascii_field: though gotta wonder if this is still fair to say re: a gigantic sack of shit with the words 'this is spam, and fuck you' printed right on it
trinque: "I suspect it can be mitigated through heavier reliance on coin age priority, as coin age is not something that can be trivially bought on the spot, unlike fee priority."
ascii_field: 'As you may have noticed, Bitcoin unfortunately has run out of capacity due to someone DoS attacking the network.'
ascii_field: as in, the one thing that is guaranteed to grow monotonically
ascii_field: now if the node is 'live' and has net connection, hears tx, suffers possible fragging (see old threads) - then even more consumption.
ascii_field: the thing here, as discussed in the past, is that 300 bytes (block header and overhead) are kept in ram at all times per ~known block~
ascii_field: (this was a node, i must remind the reader, with no mempool, on account of having no net connection and being fed blocks 'intravenously' if you will)
ascii_field: williamdunne: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150701/rss_d1746f76523316edcdc82326213f8953bf6f0d09.png
shinohai: And it is fantastic work, imho. My shell provider doesn't bitch at me about bandwidth anymore either.
ascii_field: shinohai: most of what i've done re: therealbitcoin so far revolves around getting memory footprint under control
ascii_field: ported netbsd to the thing, too
ascii_field: just asked the question.
ascii_field: the answer turned out to be pogo.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu posed the question of what is the cheapest mass-produced piece of equipment that could be pressed into service to run therealbitcoin.
shinohai: Of your particular dealings. How the idea of using it came about.
decimation: but I do see your point, if we can make the hardware 'reliable'
ascii_field: just as usg turned their orbital nuke dropper into 'space shuttle'
decimation: su actually built 'manned spy satellites' - became 'civilian peace stations' in the 80's
decimation: yeah, that's true I think. the soviets believed it anyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaz
ascii_field: see, somebody's gotta change the vacuum tubes
ascii_field: well, afaik the 'precise' is not publicly known. but the ancient rumour that was taught to me was that it was a usg military propaganda trick
decimation wonders if skynet will need an 'economy' or will just directly solve the 'need things/have things' trade matrix
decimation: at any rate, I fully admit that bitcoin requires slaves to feed computers the right data and configure them
ascii_field: the unfortunate thing is that the 'easy to verify, hard to produce' thing very much requires machines.
decimation: why does the fact that your throat can be cut invalidate proof of work?
ascii_field: in my mind, that's sorta the whole point of bitcoin.
ascii_field: except that the attacks now include having one's throat cut at night, aha
decimation: well, if slave tells you time of day, the class of attacks you describe become much more difficult
ascii_field: and hashes with goose feather pen
ascii_field: decimation: now you have a human slave in the loop
ben_vulpes: decimation: but then people would have to touch it !!111twelve1
ben_vulpes: aha the one where you simply hold difficulty constant and mine a long-ass chain.
ascii_field: others - no
ascii_field: certain variants of the attack are prohibitively costly, yes
ben_vulpes: i'm sure you've gone into this in depth, but doesn't the length of the current main chain make that ludicrously expensive?
ascii_field: (will accept blocks that are not, by the traditional bitcoin rules, valid. and predicate acceptance of future blocks on these turds - which is what 'accept a block' means)
ascii_field: and to other induced forkage.
funkenstein_: consider a node that passes on valid TXs, checks new blocks for proper work and passes them on. it ignores timestamps and lets miners say what current difficulty is. useless or not?
ascii_field: and now compound the problem by supposing that it is not you and your best friend, but you and a network consisting, to an unknown degree, of devils
ascii_field: for the sake of argument.
ascii_field: say they own very poor clocks, which drift by a second - or more - per minute.
ascii_field: or sometimes 'losing' them entirely
ascii_field: let's suppose they traded pgp keys and can communicate securely. however, they cannot prevent the enemy from delaying messages
ascii_field: two (at minimum) geographically separated people, with enemies in between, wish to agree re: how much time has passed since they last spoke, 2016 blocks ago.
ascii_field: let's try to define the basic puzzle here
ascii_field: so we're back to clock, then
decimation: then you ought to have made preparations
ascii_field: and what of when you cannot see the sunrise ?
decimation: the sun does.
decimation: yeah. ultimately a thinking person can observe sunrise, sunset, set own clock (calendar might be another matter)
decimation: if usg can spam uv over a large area for hours, then you probably have bigger problems than money
ascii_field: not only because they are not reliably detectable (rain, clouds, being in a submarine)
ascii_field: natural phenomena don't fit the bill
decimation: perhaps the pogo should come with a sunlight detector
ascii_field: it just has to be a reasonably-periodic signal that all nodes can see, whose period is not affected by the aggregate hash rate, nor can be manipulated at reasonable expense by gnomes
ascii_field: anyway, since this thread came back to life, i will point out that mircea_popescu is right re: the notion of time being necessary for a bitcoin net. but it doesn't have to come from a clock as traditionally understood
ascii_field: (typically, abandoned mine filled with salt water and thousands of photomultiplier tubes on the walls, each the size of a man's torso)
ascii_field: examine the construction of a neutrino observatory.
ascii_field: and, considering the famous formula ('50/50 interactions when passing through light-year of lead') portable detector is a questionable affair
ascii_field: afaik there is no useful timing info in solar neutrono flows
decimation: re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 00:44:36; mjr_: by the way, anyone gonna tell me if i can play this game where i can buy things with bitcoin?
decimation: who would be lost in the unwashed 1st std deviation anyway
decimation: (for whites in the us)
ascii_field: just the factory-standard mind
decimation: re: stupid breeding true < I thought 'reversion to the population mean' was the general outcome
trinque: maybe someone that secretly collects human skin furniture then
trinque: if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance
trinque: ascii_field: it would make a great deal of sense to me if there were a connection between this kind of intelligence and personality traits which cause him to have a much lower default level of regard for any particular human off the street.
jborkl: although I have just been watching from the sideline for a long time (not active)
ascii_field: the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it
trinque: then yes, I see your point
jborkl: The way it has been before, not all nodes have the same amount of txns in mempool - I never got enough of a explanation to discuss it
trinque: ascii_field: by good RNG do you mean that they are capable of novel thoughts?
trinque: and the latter has his own idea
trinque: sure, and the former is deeply embedded in a group concept of what he ought to be doing
trinque: I do not follow that definition either
trinque: ascii_field: I am promting you to define the term instead of merely restating it
ascii_field: nothing to do with relating to other people.
ascii_field: if you must reduce it to a soundbite - it is just a measure of the quality of the rng in your head
ascii_field: specifically, you can have arbitrarily high 'psychoticism' in the sense of being perelman and no 'dominance' or 'social supernode' to speak of.
trinque: ascii_field: something like the combination of dominance and being a social supernode?
trinque: old norse probably had an honorable term for the thing
ascii_field: which is the thing without which arbitrarily strong 'intelligence' ends up a chinese exam taker
ascii_field: far more interesting is the trait hasn eysenck called 'psychoticism'
ascii_field: trinque: also most folks who idly ponder the subject end up conflating several distinct things under 'intelligence'
trinque: mats: but then even if the stupid tend to die more often, it could still be so that the stupid back home fuck enough to replenish stocks
trinque: there'd have to be some correlation between an indicator of this redundancy before the war and which soldiers died
mats: the specific claim being made is 'redundant populations'
trinque: and they sustained huge casualties
trinque: mats: I am not finding a good graph of the russian population per year, yet I recall ww2 being a temporary blip downward that was rapidly recovered
ascii_field: 'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)
gabriel_laddel: Fukishima effluent on California's coast chews up the food chain to seals. 39 million person California, tremendously government subsidized, is collapsed. Its unsecured debt is the Saudi GNP while its $45 billion/year agriculture Central Valley has returned to desert, unemploying a million Mexican slaves with nowhere to go. Let's run the Battle of the Somme again, and soon. The jet stream dips south in autumn." (fr
gabriel_laddel: "The antidote to national social and financial collapse is war. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of social and economic realities. It rewards the creative, productive, and effective. It reduces redundant populations. North Korea, India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia (paid for Paki research, repaid by Paki nukes) stare down some 1000 exceptionally well-crafted and deliverable Israeli thermonukes.
ascii_field: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << l0ltr0n1c
williamdunne: Recently did some stuff for the BitFinex guys, that wasn't much fun but y'know. Pays for stuff. Think I'll have more with them in future
ascii_field: 'Be homicidally depressed and aim at the top. That is like voting, except the count is honest and meaningful.'
assbot: Disqus - The Strange World of “Reward Deficiency Syndrome” (Part 2) ... ( http://bit.ly/1TlSFWh )
ascii_field: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/neuroskeptic/the_strange_world_of_8220reward_deficiency_syndrome8221_part_2/#comment-2118094177
gabriel_laddel: doya have a cv or the like?
gabriel_laddel: Speaking of Uncle Al - not only did the 'gentlemen' at the eot wash group modify their URL scheme so that his links appear "dead", but Stanford has also moved the single link in qz4.html
williamdunne: IKR, the operator was a friend of mine, but he was very concerned when I sent him the details for a large transaction from themselves to a law firm they employ
williamdunne: gabriel_laddel: About 12 months ago I was tasked with checking the security of a fiat institution. Within three hours I had found two different bugs to send money from accounts that weren't mine, and two different bugs to view all account details that weren't mine, and another to see all transaction details that weren't mine.
ascii_field: in the case of the latter, it is necessary to have a ~complete~ picture of the vital organs
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: another detail that must be understood is that reversing for the purpose of programming is a very different animal from reversing for the purpose of rebuilding.
gabriel_laddel: someone needs to carry the water.
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.
ascii_field: ('how it ends,' for the uninitiated, is that some time around when these fine folks are about half done, the chip will go out of print. and be replaced by an entirely incompatible one.)
gabriel_laddel: To any "hackers" reading the logs - rather than going after hackteam, try xilinx, lattice semiconductor next time?
ascii_field: i gotta take my hat off to these folks for sheer effort, but the fact remains that they are scooping out the sea with the proverbial thimble.
ascii_field: try synthesizing ~anything~ of any serious complexity without exact timing data for ~every piece of shit on the die~
ascii_field: 'Next on the TODO list: PLLs, Timing Analysis...' << ahahahahahaha
ascii_field: 'We have enough bits mapped that we can create a functional verilog model for almost all bitstreams generated by Lattice iCEcube2 for the iCE40 HX1K-TQ144, as long as no block memories or PLLs are used. ' << wake me up when that last part changes. and when i can get this chip from ten different chinese foundries.
mircea_popescu: the first part is right.
thestringpuller: i think the network just forked again
mircea_popescu: the congress library
ascii_field: it doesn't work unless you have access to the right cock
mircea_popescu: say "Very gifted reverse engineer, looking for outgoing, persuasive, experienced slut to start hackteam together. You'll have to suck bureaucrat cock to get us contracts, I'll fill them, we split the loot."
mircea_popescu: all you need is the girlie to suck sudan cock.
mircea_popescu: start one then.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: from what i can tell, the 'hackteam' folks were paid hundreds of thousands of euros to do things that i consider a weekend's work
mircea_popescu: these particular kids would have made more scamming in eve
mircea_popescu: what ear. they're americans.
mircea_popescu: it truely is the band of 2015.
mircea_popescu: dunno how much you know about how teenaged girls suck cock these days
ascii_field: and of course it was the крыша
mircea_popescu: the difference between this and an "etsy shop" is color scheme.
ascii_field: everything but the ashtray
mod6: follow this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/stator-buildlog-wDumpBlockAndEatBlockApplied.txt
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no, it isn't 'greatest leak ever' - but certainly the most complete gutting of a usg contractor in history
mircea_popescu: generally the difference between advertising set and porn set is that porn set cameras all set crotch height
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: let's have the finale of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193367 ?
davout: where's the stator tarball?
decimation: don't grab the wrong ones
decimation: just be sure to check the distfile hashes
ascii_field: davout: for now, skip the auto.sh and use my scripts
mod6: yeah, that auto.sh has problems there.
decimation: you probably have the 'realpath' issue
mod6: you need to use "stator.sh" that comes with the stator tarball
decimation: check the hashes plus sigs
ascii_field: there is a MANIFEST
mircea_popescu: also make sure you build the right one
ascii_field: davout: did you have the tarballs in place ?
williamdunne: Chinese dumping US stocks now, I'm presuming. Need to pump some filthy fiat into their own markets
davout: so i'm trying to build the stator, getting "headers.h:21:27: fatal error: openssl/ecdsa.h: No such file or directory"
mircea_popescu: anyway, they had no choice.
decimation: they totally know it's not a 'cyber attack'
ascii_field: i fully expected this after hearing the cn thing
mircea_popescu: the gall.
mircea_popescu: make it more like the fiat ponzi system
mod6: trades haulted, no suprise there.
ascii_field: the clocks?
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is what powers my disinterest in the matter. i saw in logs this pov is divergent with teh republic, so i'll entertain the alternative viewpoint, but just for the sake of records.
ascii_field: didn't see any obvious ones in the 'git' login config
ascii_field: there were girls ?!!
mircea_popescu: the boys made slightly more than they'd have made working for gawker, on the grounds that they're asocial weirdos.
ascii_field: (i assume the truth lies somewhere in those 500 GB...)
mircea_popescu: they never saw even a decent salary.