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mircea_popescu: just like phantomcircuit still goes around, an aethero waiting to happen.
mircea_popescu: the funny thing will be that this schmuck will still be going around pretending like he actually exists and so forth even after this idiocy goes the way of neobee and "bitcoin security experts group"
trinque: they're building it?
trinque: http://xtnodes.com/ << even their bullshit graph is on the descent
decimation: lol the problem was that buildroot was grepping 'locale -a' for utf8, while apple uses 'utf-8'
decimation: I'm sure the homos at apple support utf8, but apparently it doesn't work with whatever buildroot wants
decimation: maybe they can get into the space business too
decimation: it's kinda the same question as "what's apple gonna do with $60b"
mircea_popescu: decimation you kiddin' me, it could buy out all the russia!
decimation: nobody has offered to buy the thing for $2b as far as I know
decimation: well, it's all theoretical valuation
mircea_popescu: at the very least draw a schema of what and how needs done so people's offers to help can be plugged in
mircea_popescu: anyway, you should prolly take a bit of time away from the hands on work you love and do some management stuff.
mod6: i agree. i'm just being careful not to create more work for myself/others than necessary.
mircea_popescu: but i'm pretty sure can't simply abandon the entire userland question, it'd be a major strategic mistake.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i'm not entirely sure how the specifics should work out. bit of an open question atm
trinque: after all, that's apparently what it did for the kernel devs, haha
punkman: I'm willing to contribute Ansible scripts to deploy/build/debug instances of bitcoind via ssh to different machines. for automating some of the testing workload.
mod6: so should we still create scripts for people to build without buildroot (i.e. stator.sh/auto.sh) and then host packages for the ability to construct a buildroot with a drop-in of the foundation source?
mircea_popescu: and do not buy into the illusion that it was an isolated incident.
mod6: yeah I saw that about the eulora thing.
mircea_popescu: sourceforge goes down, there goes youre entire project, seriously ?
mircea_popescu: we will have to at the very least maintain packages we want to use, in the basic sense of, archival for download.
mod6: so i guess there is still a bit of a fork in the road; even if we do all of the hard work of ensuring peoples host dependantcies are installed before any compiling is even attempted, do we even want that to be a thing, as stan said, this is now obsolete. And do we now maintain a lot of other things for buildroot?
mircea_popescu: otherwise struggling with installers etc is a horrid trudge, but it is also an investment in human capital.
mircea_popescu: yeah. still, it's valuable to try, because if you help people they'll help you.
mircea_popescu: mod6 so far 90%+ of the problems have been with installation, from what i've seen
mircea_popescu: that said, obviously the effort to make anything work on the stack of shit we inherited from our retarded ancestors is nothing short of immense. but, chipping away at it is going to deliver, and confronting it is definitely going to show us a few useful things.
mod6: the idea was; put out this test bundle and see if we're on the right track and if anyone hits any problems with any of the patches.
mircea_popescu: you don't belong there, and moreover that's just not our company style.
mircea_popescu: mod6 just don't go to this dark place where "omg it's the 29th and i must have a working final version of bitcoind to announce
trinque: even among the smart people... :p
trinque: there aren't enough smart people in the world
trinque: yeah, I mean the thing needs a derpinstaller
mod6: which is why he said he wrote that in the first place.
mircea_popescu: sure, not to date. but we're not going by the criteria of what is easy, so we don't really care. if we won't have success for the next decade we'll be here trying it in 2026.
trinque: mod6: I've already been testing some of your stuff; if nobody else wants to manage the build script, I'm fine with it
mircea_popescu: why mix the two.
mircea_popescu: useful work is useful work. taking responsibility for the whole world is a different story.
mod6: well, i've been pushin pretty hard as far as work load -- what scares me is taking on buildroot and trying to bundle/test the entire thing.
mod6: we need something that people can utilize to make it work. i totally agree with that. and scripts and other widgets to make it work could even be a separate bundle.
mircea_popescu: more's the point here, i get the impression you're chaffing under too much workload.
mod6: you brought that up the otherday, agree 100%
mircea_popescu: mod6 actually... the ideal is something like http://www.eulorum.org/Installing_Eulora
decimation: british machines were brought to the us to undercut english goods
decimation: the US used to have a knockoff culture for its first hundred years or so
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
mod6: mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be just fine if we don't ship a "stator.sh" or an "auto.sh" in the source and simply just maintain a cookbook and preferred steps like I was saying here: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217135
hanbot: the choices you get are the choices you get. the choices you wish to make are something else.
hanbot: obviously the whole ip thing needs you not to own your bank account to work. places where that's not available develop a knockoff culture and get pretty loud. see south east asia.
trinque: I only live that my thoughts may be less encumbered by morons by the day
trinque: I'm speaking about the cultural vulgarity of "I own that idea"
hanbot: you're fighting a strawman, really. might as well claim "nobody could truly own a cow". they just take the milk is all.
trinque: sure, and those are actions, and someone may or may not use their power to foil you
hanbot: well the way it usually works is that if you try to make the movie / tshirt / book of the concept you end up losing whatever profits.
trinque: yet I will use the concept any way that benefits me
trinque: to the extent that someone thinks they own a concept, I may lie and let him think so
hanbot: for as long as they stay there i doubt anyone cares.
trinque: I will revise to: no one can prevent me from making use of a concept; they live in the mind
hanbot: at the very least classes must own their names.
hanbot: i suppose this works ok up until one morning you wake up to find we've all changed nicks to trinque and there's just no way to make any sort of further sense of b-a
trinque: because they don't own the concept if that's what they claim they're doing
trinque: I reject entirely the notion that concepts can be owned.
decimation: ^ how could the constition give you your ideas if usg didn't own them first?
decimation: just like usg claims all your ideas: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"
trinque: no kidding. the resistance to intelligence is palpable.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:24:23; trinque: so the legal precedent here is that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and there isn't shit you can do about it?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217301 << the legal precedent is that if you're thye sort of guy that solves his own poroblems rather than seek the help of the state, you're a self-radicalizing terrorists and general wesley snipes of nato wants you in treblinka
mircea_popescu: that'd be the problem. too much convenience, and allowing women the illusion that anyone asked them for any input in the big question of whether their offspring survives or not.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:57:24; ag3nt_zer0: yeah we arent naive... and the fact that we preface our observations with these "conditions" indicates how fucking cancerous the psychic milleu is here in mcsoccermomland...
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:56:55; trinque: BingoBoingo: an excellent perspective on the news as ever.
mircea_popescu: "early experiments show that statically linked binaries are usually smaller than their dynamically linked glibc counterparts!!!"
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 00:02:16; phf: trinque: probably same reason openbsd is not the blessed b-a target platform
mircea_popescu: "cortana" the resurgent paperclip ? bwahaha
mircea_popescu: blergh, fucktarded sales copy, i guess i'm the dumbass for not noticing it's washitpo again
mircea_popescu: "In just five years, Uber has accumulated enough rideshare industry milestones to make your head spin. The total distance traveled by all Uber drivers would take you to Planet Saturn — and back. "
mircea_popescu: what sort of priorities be these.
mircea_popescu: in any case in the triangle "monthly releases" "mod6 does all teh work" "bitcoind is usable" i'm not going to pick the first two for fucks sake.
mircea_popescu: this "pure code" approach is no different from every other "pure research" proposition - sure, you're purely able to pursue pure goals now, but the cost is any conceivable relevancy.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:57:10; mod6: The Foundation isn't going to ship these builds scripts any more. We're just going to ship source code for bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: myeah, prime target for revolutionizing, they used to be big data in the 70s
trinque: so the legal precedent here is that your property can be violated by a low-flying drone and there isn't shit you can do about it?
ag3nt_zer0: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217253 << Not to mention the livelihood/employment problems or the international travel restrictions and all the other non-legal consequences doled out to this man by this vastly increasing type of abuse of power
trinque departs the bar
trinque: sounds like they barely know what they want politically
ag3nt_zer0: yeah beenlookinf there too.. and montana, and alaska
ag3nt_zer0: yeah the whole left coast
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: it's a truly beautiful state, but the people here are red-blooded communists
trinque: I loathe these people.
trinque: unimpressed, and he wrote the bot I based deedbot- on
trinque: punkman: I said to him that the guy who was run out of some ruby project for being catholic was wronged.
williamdunne: Oh, scoop is disconnected from IRC but not the internet. I'll look into it
assbot: I Can't Believe They Let You Do That! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MuAtba )
trinque: which dissolved, absent the political structures which conditioned them that way elsewhere
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: I have a half-baked theory that america was merely running on the fumes of the hierarchical beliefs of people that immigrated here
ag3nt_zer0: yeah we arent naive... and the fact that we preface our observations with these "conditions" indicates how fucking cancerous the psychic milleu is here in mcsoccermomland...
trinque: BingoBoingo: an excellent perspective on the news as ever.
trinque: and I know the answer to my own question but... damn.
trinque: maybe I'm naive, but I'm certain this was not always the case
trinque: when the fuck did america side with the pussies
ag3nt_zer0: maybe it was the drugs, but I remember the 90s being quite different
ag3nt_zer0: I noticed a huge spike in this shit post 911/patriot act fear + smartphone... seems these events combined to cinch the asshole up to inpenetrable proportion
trinque: oh, I've lamented the lack of eye contact on the street in Portland in the hallowed logs
ag3nt_zer0: I hear that people actually have the strnegth to acknowledge eachothers presence if, you know, colliding on the street
trinque: they worship capitalism
trinque: (I am the latter)
trinque: portland's ok if you can ignore or enjoy abusing the communists
ag3nt_zer0: aht part of the states you in trinque?
ag3nt_zer0: this room seems to be the only place wherein any type of free discussion takes place... not stultified by PC and other too-intense sentimentalisms
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: exactly... not to mention the twatbrains that constitute the majority of my contemporaries
trinque: I'd like to do the backpack thing at some point too
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: sounds like the ussa bureaucracy has been rough, yeah
ag3nt_zer0: which means it hasnt been that great haha but I am looking forward to getting the fuck out of here so there is a light on the horizon
phf: trinque: linux seems to support everything and with some effort you could strip it down somewhat. i think linux also has a policy of never breaking abi, so if you're into static compilation, like ascii said sometime ago "if stator binary breaks on your other linux something's very very wrong"
ag3nt_zer0: s'ok man... i started a countdown that clicks away until I plan to embark on a two year backpack around the world
shinohai: Hell, I even got it to build on Ubuntu, the dumbest of Linux systems I know of.
shinohai: trinque: *for* the pogo. *on* the pogo is just dumb.
trinque: I tried it for the hell of it a while back
trinque: because the latter results in oomkill iirc
trinque: shinohai: are you trying to compile for the pogo, or *on* the pogo?
shinohai: If anyone gets rotor to successfully build on the pogo, please, by all means contact me.
mod6: <+trinque> asciilifeform: I don't think he's saying that, merely that aside from the makefile, perhaps the larger build system should be a separate concern << exactly this. Makefile stays ofc.
BingoBoingo: linux per se doesn't seem to be the problem so much as linus, as traditionally implemented is
assbot: ONE MILLION new lines of code hit Linux Kernel • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1MuwCe2 )
trinque: I'm about ready to give linux the permaboot
trinque: I can see how the thing tends towards "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe" otherwise
trinque: but I'll let the man speak for himself
trinque: I think he's just trying to limit the scope of what constitutes a foundation release
trinque: asciilifeform: I don't think he's saying that, merely that aside from the makefile, perhaps the larger build system should be a separate concern
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
phf: trinque: probably same reason openbsd is not the blessed b-a target platform
trinque: seems most of their stuff would run happily atop it
trinque: the linux kernel is the biggest wad of complexity in... linux
trinque: given their expressed love of simplicity
trinque: I'm curious why these guys don't seem to have considered using openbsd as a basis
trinque: http://www.radare.org/r/ << another one of their guys
trinque: dude, there's a lot of talent in the suckless wot
assbot: I run a university. I’m also an Uber driver. - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1fIWHsO )
shinohai: I like everything except this goddamned pogo. If I had gasoline in the house I'd set it afire this very moment.
trinque: its clearly a separate concern from the source itself, aside from which roof it is under.
mod6: That all being said, I'm super glad that 'rotor' is out there now, and I hope to learn and use it one day myself. Maybe even this week! But that shouldn't be something that we deliver.
mod6: And if someone wants to run a dynamically linked version? Who are we to tell them 'no'?
mod6: If asciilifeform needs a fully deterministic static bitcoind for his use, then sure, he can use whatever means he needs to achieve that.
mod6: The rest is all secondary.
punkman: just host the dependencis on therealbitcoin.org
mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
mod6: The Foundation isn't going to ship these builds scripts any more. We're just going to ship source code for bitcoin.
mod6: he expects everyone to pull down their own bundles.
mod6: because alf's original stator doens't have that in there.
mod6: punkman: did you try the line above it first? the first line: boost="http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/files/boost" << sets a environment variable. is required for the second part to work: curl -L "$boost/1.52.0/boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2" -s -o distfiles/boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
mod6: i put this in the stator.sh script. it pulls them down, have tried on 3 different environments of my own, and independantly verified 2x otherwise.
mod6: did you enter the line above it first?
mod6: and this is what all of my older v0.5.3.1 builds have pulled down for the .tar.gz:
mod6: i get the same thing on mine -- the (bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1.tar.gz has a script that pulls that one via curl command):
trinque: hanbot: ^ from the server
trinque: as far as I can tell their business model is extortion
trinque: what's the shasum you have
assbot: Watch Bryan Caplan and EconLog get their heads stuck in the sand. Like really, incredibly stuck. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzxXki )
assbot: Bringing the fight to the construction industry. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzxVce )
trinque: db and openssl are also there
trinque: I can put my copies of the distfiles on deedbot.org
assbot: The best Obamacare-makes-healthcare-affordable story you ever heard. Also, survivalism. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1U7IODO )
punkman: too bad I lost the bezzlebag :/
jurov: i got bitcents worth of nifty items, too, for free (and overpaid for others.. that's life)
mircea_popescu: she's the queen of whimsy nao, we all gotta bow to her for samovar goodness.
jurov: please don't, eulora is a plot to sabotage the foundation efforts
shinohai: I absolutely suck at gaming. The last thing I played and enjoyed was probably Mario Kart.
jurov: http://www.mod6.net/eulora/v0.1.0/eulora_010.png here's mod6 posing next to heap of them
jurov: btw williamdunne everyone is hating on eulora that it does not have official website, you're welcome to put together one
punkman: what's the purpose of this anyway?
phf: well, no, the approach would be to implement necessary drawing primitives on top of existing console in eulora (they are probably already there, just need to be catalogued), expose those primitives via python interface, and then hook the primitives into pyte's rendering callbacks. wxwidgets are not involved anywhere
jurov: CS does the latter
jurov: as it was said earlier when boost was discussed, either it gets used or some crappy homebrew replacement
jurov: phf that's the ancient thing with rotating letter i mentioned
mircea_popescu: let cs handle the canvas bs for you is by far the best idea. and only toucvh the radioactive pile of crap it is via the client api for oyur own safety.
jurov: oh i did not mean so lowlevel, there are already text primitives provided
jurov: i don't reject that altogether, will see how it goes
jurov: yes it is posible to place it as fixed X child window but then it's forever limited to linux/X
jurov: punkman the problem is, i need it to draw on opengl canvas
mircea_popescu: disarm the police, we'll talk. maybe.
mircea_popescu: "No political force should have, and will not have, any kind of armed cells. No political organization has the right to establish ... criminal groups," Poroshenko said on July 13.
mircea_popescu: burn moscow in the name of xtianity ?
mircea_popescu: "I would like Ukraine to lead the crusades," said Korchynsky, whose battalion's name is Saint Mary. "Our mission is not only to kick out the occupiers, but also revenge. Moscow must burn."
gernika: Seems like the fraud model took over in the 90s and resulted in the first bust.
mircea_popescu: every "ban" comes from the same happy place of insanity.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 18:11:58; trinque: this notion that it's even possible to ban a mathematical formula is insane.
mircea_popescu: or is that only if you bother some random anon faggot ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216765 << who's the nick denton of shit=po ? are they quitting ?
ascii_field: gernika: ultimately it is a set of pigs competing for trough of the u.s. fed arse-mouth-system printing usd to buy stocks with
mircea_popescu: gernika so there you go.
gernika: ascii_field is there a summary of sv idiot culture somewhere that enumerates the major flaws? My own experience of it is that it is sort of a fraud culture in which fraud "prototypes" are developed to be sold to google/facebook/apple for marketing purposes.
mircea_popescu: "Nordman and Heron have been cleared of all criminal wrongdoing in the incident and have received no disciplinary action from the department despite an internal review."
mircea_popescu: ahh, the primary driver of usg agent behaviour - that ever present gnawing fear at the back of the skull that who knows, maybe someone somewhere is laughing at them
mircea_popescu: "When asked why he jumped into the window by investigators, Nordman responded, “[to] make the driver stop the car. He didn’t seem like he was gonna… tak[e] me seriously enough – me being outside the car and telling him to stop – so I figured I’d get inside and make him stop.”"
phf: mircea_popescu: in the duct tape programmer spolsky used jamie zawinski, jwz, as his main example, and i think it's an odd, backhanded characterization, that's mainly there to drive a point about something that spolsky imagined
ascii_field: in my mind he represents the sv idiot culture
ascii_field: jwz took a big, fat shit into the software ecosystem
mircea_popescu: phf "you may have your thing revolutionize the world provided you agree to make it not change anything".
phf: systemd was really the last nail in the coffin, this stuff was going on for a while, like freedesktop.org which is a open standards body (?) for all the retardation that came out of kde/gnome and "linux on desktop"
assbot: The Duct Tape Programmer - Joel on Software ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2snmV )
mircea_popescu: ok, i like these people.
mircea_popescu: "We believe this should become the mainstream philosophy in the IT sector." << it IS the mainsteam philosophy. just a bunch of barnacles hanging on.
shinohai: I was just about to respond to the pic mircea_popescu posted. Such sanctimonious horseshit makes me sick.
ascii_field: but they link to it
ascii_field: not, afaik, affiliated with the musl folks in any direct sense
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 15:55:28; phf: i remember, musl is pretty cool, it's part of the whole suckless movement
mircea_popescu: better than the one in quake.
ascii_field: lol, like the one in 'quake' ?
jurov: ithings just came down into adding terminal emulator to eulora and i'm weighing down the options
ascii_field: i literally can't recall any other than these 3.
mircea_popescu: screen for the ween!
ascii_field: the only other one i've used in the past decade was 'minicom'
mircea_popescu: whatever they can afford.
mircea_popescu: check it out ascii_field, everything's rosy over at nigger house! they're so happy with the way shit's going they're gonna buy everyone a round!
mircea_popescu: Last week, Retired General Wesley Clark, who was NATO commander during the US bombing of Serbia, proposed that “disloyal Americans” be sent to internment camps for the “duration of the conflict.”
mircea_popescu: the mpsecution rests.
mircea_popescu: lol wait, gmaxwell and mike hearn bitching at each other on reddit as to who should go do an altcoin ?
mircea_popescu: the shortage is i can't get enough people
mircea_popescu: anyway. there's no shortage of work to be had here. and i mean serious work.
mircea_popescu: govt is essentially running a 60% arbitrage on the last remaining productive leg of the place, which is fucking soy farming.
mircea_popescu: otherwise not meaningful.
mircea_popescu: dollar trades 13.8-14.2 atm, "officially" at 8.whatever, in the sense that if you're a farmer and you sell soy, you're going to be paid for the dollars you bring in at that rate.
mircea_popescu: phf the idea is to basically work as an exchange, yes.
phf: mircea_popescu: so the idea is to basically work as exchange, but with black market rate premium, whatever it is 30-40%, and a wider buy vs sell spread?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: cow is stupid. still learns to avoid the barbed wire
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i don't think you understand what the word "stupid" means.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: cools the ardour of the enemy, cheaply
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: game-theoretical instrument
punkman: !up thestringpuller
mircea_popescu: why blow money over some twerp ? blow the twerp.
ascii_field: incidentally, i've wondered when u.s. folks travelling with cash usd will learn about thermite as countermeasure to 'confiscator'
mircea_popescu: and any other places inhabited by the sort of retard.
mircea_popescu: (new chinese smg! shoots every other bullet!1"
mircea_popescu: anyway. bring some friends, the hos you can't do without, some money and i guess handguns if you don't care for the chinese half-and-half crap.
mircea_popescu: no, you shoot them.
punkman: if they catch you with half-a-mil do they just confiscate?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the half mil fits in a large travel bag.
ascii_field: if the $mil fits in your pocket, you probably won't have to shoot anyone
mircea_popescu: some people prefer to not bother. either way.
punkman: are there euros in .ar black market?
mircea_popescu: some people bring half mil to a mil, but then you run the risk of having to maybe shoot the dummies.
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