mircea_popescu: "Durkan proposed the incentive program last month, saying Seattle needs to jump into the nationwide competition for experienced police officers. Her plan came at a time when historically low unemployment and retirements of baby boomer officers, combined with high housing costs and a negative image of policing nationwide, are said to be driving competition for recruits regionally and nationally."
mircea_popescu: https://www.officer.com/training-careers/hiring-promotion/news/21070244/seattle-may-offer-15000-hiring-bonuses-to-attract-police-officers << in other lulz, http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/
BingoBoingo: Everyone in the US I've met that worked a "public contact/customer service" position has the same epiphany. None of them think humanity is bad or democracy unworkable, they fatlogic that everyone else is exactly as same age/gender/human as they are.
mircea_popescu: they['re fucking cattle, what.
mircea_popescu: the deeply "big zone bipedals ain't more human than any other cattle" feel of the pice is indicative. not of "police brutality", tho.
BingoBoingo: The police here are so much more pleasant than back home. Even in small town USA(TM)(R) new recruit cops would stop me during late night/early morning walks to ask what I was doing. Here if the police even care to address me, nothing more needs to be said than the traditional exchange of "todo bien? todo bien."
a111: Logged on 2015-03-26 20:43 asciilifeform: one to break doors, gates; one to threaten bystanders, if any, with 'accidental' fire; one to shoot; and perhaps one with a cage that arrestee -might- be permitted to surrender into, if the bot's voice-recognition system works and if orders included a possible live capture
mircea_popescu: i actually expect this will be a thing, did you see the very good walking robots they have now ?
asciilifeform: 'no one has yet created body armor with air conditioning built in' << iirc this was actually commissioned during usg's iraq adventure. ( or at the very least, a golden toilet contract was issued for it, i have nfi what the accompanying theatrical prop looked like, and whether anyone bothered to produce )
mircea_popescu: https://www.officer.com/on-the-street/body-armor-protection/blog/11537485/summer-stupidity << actually not even terrible "it sucks to be a cop, all you hear all day are idiots transparently lying to you" pov blog.
mircea_popescu: the cable of that earbud doing that rounded corners thing ? totally.
mircea_popescu: notice if you would the very star wars - esque look of the imagological artefact associated.
asciilifeform: ha loox like i had mircea_popescu's pictured earbud. it's the only thing that worked with my crystal set
mircea_popescu: and yes, back when mp was 12, that thing was the coolest of pubescent sex paraphenalia. YOU COULD OFFER A GIRL THE OTHER EARBUD!!11
asciilifeform has sovok pocket radio also ! was pretty great, actually , ran on 9v, and covered in troo leather, was a joy to hold in hands.
mircea_popescu: "Tucker mentioned possible Oscar nomination for the script, more than $200M at the box office and revolutionizing Hollywood." sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: because it never fucking did. it was temporarily "a thing", in the sense of, hyped up ~name~ for a category, about as inconsequential as whatever other name.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want one if you found one . they're the orig 'you must crapple to upload files' item.
mircea_popescu: mp was very confused. then mp was de-confused, by seller in stall in mall : here, this tiny little thing, it's an mp3 player.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. accumulates stupid , from all possible inputs , rather than somehow factoring out )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's other pt, tho, i gotta entirely agree with -- the item is a stupidity summer
mircea_popescu: ie, yes stillborn from birth, from an engineering pov. but these can and actually are fixed, if there's ideological substance.
asciilifeform: imho closer to the wing-flappy 'airplane'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it was, from a technologically perspective, about on par with the canvas-wing biplane.
mircea_popescu: much like the much earlier version libertard's notion of "god" or the classical libertard's notion of "freedom"
mircea_popescu: the whole wikileaks debacle demonstrated however not just that the web is not a thing, but rather that the libertard concept of "civil society" is actually ~a myth~ rather than an object
asciilifeform sees it as having been ~stillborn to begin with : ersatz pseudo-hypertext, with broken links, inability to link to fragments in any reliable way, megatonne of hacks req'd to overcome these while introducing novel and intractable breakages, etc
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, airplane, or radio, unlike "the web" or "the ipod" or "the smartphone" have definite utility.
mircea_popescu: obviously wikipedia did not live up to any of those promises. but then again, the airplane, or the radio also did not live up to the hallucinant "promises" as perceived by early "idea men" "working" on the topics.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-17 17:15 mircea_popescu: i never perceived him as anything other than or besides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM-2030 character.
mircea_popescu: at its origin, it was envisaged as this cvasi-magical "perfect systematic solution to a large set of previously ununderstood problems". part and parcel of this, the (in retrospect) ridiculous blather of the wikitard as to the "human knowledge" and other http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850928 slash huxleyan nonsense, "transhumanism" blablabla.
mircea_popescu: ftr, cuz this is interesting from a cultural history perspective : the "web", as an item in the socio-conceptual space, died ~with assange~, and not with wikipedia.
asciilifeform suspects that at some pt 'proggies for interfacing to heathendom' will become 'genre'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899937 << item of least concern currently, pretty much the only public use for a toiletbox is "web proxy the republic".
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/086-s-xml.html << The Tar Pit -- An XML parser for Common Lisp programs
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 15:04 asciilifeform: 'Topic for #musl is: http://www.musl-libc.org | Ask questions; treat others with respect; stop off-topic discussions for musl questions; do not publish logs; no sexism, homophobia, or other forms of asshattery.'
diana_coman: I was curious re activity @ musl so I joined the channel: the topic is same as http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188244
diana_coman: in other lolz, #musl has a "feepbot"
diana_coman: quite a bunch of issues on the arm it seems, yes
diana_coman: re sjlj and zcx and apache - the current RK use would be the only iffy current situation re banning zcx
asciilifeform: diana_coman: neato. tho i did find that the arm build won't build a x86 gnat ( still afaik mystery )
diana_coman: in good news, it seems that the static-only ave1-gnat builds itself fine (with the tarballs ofc so ultimately still relying on the corpse but at least that's frozen and the whole thing is NOT relying anymore on a deployed adacore)
asciilifeform: re those rivets : earlier this yr i tried to find where else used; turns out , hp ( who fabbed the bolix ) in late '80s also used on certain of their 'pa-risc' items, e.g. http://www.cpushack.com/gallery-1/hp/hp1fe4-0010-pa7300lc-b/
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 15:18 spyked: but after about three semi-automated passes through the texts, I'm fairly confident I got most of the crap out
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 15:09 spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 , specifically glibc is gonna go from my machines once I encuntooate them. it's not yet clear to me how this will impact e.g. apache, which calls dlopen for its loadable modules thing. google didn't turn out anything on the subj either.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 09:03 phf: this really has been a low priority item until i moved to russia, but now i'm stuck in secular hell, so this whole subject elicits only anger and i'd rather something good actually came out of it.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899898 << would be pretty great. i wrote to dks again re the PALs , and re whether he has any moar cpus , dead or alive, to sell, so far no answr
asciilifeform: the four rivets also of interest, they're transparent at 35kV, but would like to know why they are there, do they actually hold down the lid, or is there also glue etc
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 05:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899892 << the xray setup is really for the pcb (not done yet, but film is here.) the ic shot is so possibly to figure out where to cut, right nao i have 3 ~different~ packages, so if i cut one and smash it , doesn't tell me anything useful re how to try again, it's a 'measure 7777 times, cut 1ce' situation.
spyked: but after about three semi-automated passes through the texts, I'm fairly confident I got most of the crap out
a111: Logged on 2019-02-26 23:21 asciilifeform: !Q later tell spyked that gutenberg tarball -- didja get a chance to auto-kill all of the header liquishit ? i'd prefer to mirror a flensed copy, the 50kB of 'this text copyright wikitards(tm)(r)' is eyesore
spyked: update re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-26#1899440 : it's almost done, I'll document it and post the new archive sometime next week. long story short: the headers/footers are non-standard, so it's taken me a while to find the proper grep recipes.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899545 <-- ty, pill applied. tho I don't expect any automated attempts to get the thing occured, only the immediate post-publication 'imbulzeala'
spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 , specifically glibc is gonna go from my machines once I encuntooate them. it's not yet clear to me how this will impact e.g. apache, which calls dlopen for its loadable modules thing. google didn't turn out anything on the subj either.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 16:19 diana_coman: to my mind option b has the benefit that it concentrates the effort in the right direction at least
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897733 -> even stronger on this given the recent experiment since I can't see *any* reason for indulging zcx
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-19#1898005 -> checked and confirmed: the genesis.vpatch matches precisely the previous one; so at least it's consistent on the same machine with different versions of V
bvt: mircea_popescu: i guess the message did not parse correctly. i'm not proposing c the programming language; i meant something similar to "option c" from the list of possibilities you outlined in thread http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 16:07 mircea_popescu: c. ada-?-musl-static is the standard, either zcx or sjlj is acceptable (mostly based on what threading philosophy one embraces), with an obvious preference for zcx if one doesn't thread.
phf: this really has been a low priority item until i moved to russia, but now i'm stuck in secular hell, so this whole subject elicits only anger and i'd rather something good actually came out of it.
phf: asciilifeform: give me until end of march to resolve it one way or another, feel free to neg rate me then
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 day, 8 hours, and 12 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i hate to become 'thread necromancer', but would really like a resolution of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 & the related quandaries some time before i die of old age. plox to comment.
asciilifeform: as for server, iirc it's a pure diana_coman matter , and still in the worx
trinque: probably there ought to be some euloran folks weighing in, maybe shinohai or someone tells us whether it can be built atop musl
asciilifeform: trinque: i put it in its coffin in 2015, with 'rotor' , and wasn't even aware that there was contemplation of keeping it alive until mircea_popescu asked last mo
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 02:10 mircea_popescu: and speaking of that old discussion : let's remind the folk on http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 that there's relatively little point in being part of the lordship if one can't be arsed to at least say they don't wish to comment on some serious problem we run into.
asciilifeform: it's gotta be the single most functional artifact that particular batch of africans ever put together
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re adacorpse's standard & compiler, the marvel aint that it's broken in places, but that it was built at all, and is even largely usable
asciilifeform: ( and that the can per se was added in 'production' model to improve thermal transfer )
asciilifeform: loox exactly like the top side of the ceramic one. so entirely possible that ~bottom~ of die is under the can.
asciilifeform: for thread-completeness, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876504 << bottom side of the 'tin can' variant.
asciilifeform: ( how would cut ? for the tin can, diamond engraving bit on cnc mill will prolly do the job without cutting the bonding wires. for the ceramic -- currently nfi, seems to have 4 anchor posts, prolly these are the ticket )
asciilifeform: interestingly, there appears to be 0 useful info on the net re how to get these open. ( lotsa crud re opening recent intels, and various dissolvable plastic DIPs, but not applicable )
asciilifeform: compare with the fg xilinx die , the latter has no fancy package, and is entirely homogeneous at 35kV.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, certain streaking (like say 4230 1324 or 4554 1606) seems incompatible with actual circuit layout
asciilifeform: dun look anyffin like the published pic tho.
asciilifeform: pretty sure it's a noise, i.e. one can't usefully milk the circuit from it
mircea_popescu: is the hope that http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/xray/ivory/iron_ivory_die_large.jpg item is not merely noise ?
a111: Logged on 2019-03-01 01:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899802 << this ties directly into above. it's not a problem of "these engineers did not do enough". it's not an engineering problem at all. it's 100% political, "these sorry schmucks passed themselves off for an authority they could never possibly be". this'll never wash, and in particular indigence is the worst possible plea they could bring. if they ALSO are poor then THEREFORE even LESS q
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899843 << i dun expect they'll be showing up to 'bring plea' any time soon. instead they're rakin' in the heathen dough just nao.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 20:59 bvt: i can try killing that code to see what happens -- i don't even understand why zcx won't just work, and there is no information on this problem in the whole internet
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899816 << if you feel like tinkering with it, by all means ; but it's not liable to magically work just by taking out the takeout. it has to actually do things.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of that old discussion : let's remind the folk on http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 that there's relatively little point in being part of the lordship if one can't be arsed to at least say they don't wish to comment on some serious problem we run into.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 16:07 mircea_popescu: c. ada-?-musl-static is the standard, either zcx or sjlj is acceptable (mostly based on what threading philosophy one embraces), with an obvious preference for zcx if one doesn't thread.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899805 << the keks of all time. so basically they picked http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897694 ?
mircea_popescu: from 's not in the standard"
mircea_popescu: argentines do this, and ima fucking napalm that shithole for it. because it just can't fucking be done, what "zcx" ? the name they were looking for is "snot".
mircea_popescu: "how dare you even call your aborted glob of misdesign SOMETHING AT ALL!" is the question. kids don't go around giving names to their lego constructions and then hacking everyone's gps to point to imaginary "City Of Wonderful Wonderments" 2x3 foot square.
mircea_popescu: ualified to go about emperor-ing in the buff.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899802 << this ties directly into above. it's not a problem of "these engineers did not do enough". it's not an engineering problem at all. it's 100% political, "these sorry schmucks passed themselves off for an authority they could never possibly be". this'll never wash, and in particular indigence is the worst possible plea they could bring. if they ALSO are poor then THEREFORE even LESS q
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 20:47 asciilifeform: bvt: i started with the supposition that it was built for irons where there is no time slicer , but currently nfi whether this is so, or whether was simply a kludge for no particular reason
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899801 << it's a methodologically defensible "charitable read" ; nevertheless not actually supported by the facts, as it happens. this dun invalidate the method i dun think.
asciilifeform: i dun know ~anyffin about it, either. q is where the fuck standards-compliant soft are to come from, to begin with.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have no intention to comment on the "pro" whatever it is. the "authors" not in wot, item dun exist, wut do i care.
mircea_popescu: witness the reaction to the discussion of tcc very different to the reaction to this discussion of zcx.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the point you pursue would be A LOT more defensible among the honorable poor, people who say "we did this much and intend to do this much more when we can".
asciilifeform: well the 'pro' thing aint 'available to public'. but still africans ?
mircea_popescu: there's really no rule there must be crap "made available" to "the public". a) there's no such thing as "the public" and b) srsly now. do it right or go the fuck home, tell wifey your troubles.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-19 00:18 asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
mircea_popescu: why'd i have them do anything ? africa's fulla africans who don't go around pompously pretending they're white people.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's obv. vandalistic, what they do. but i'm pretty curious what you'd have'em do instead? maintain the standard on nights and weekends while writing java for microshit ?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 20:43 asciilifeform: those come with the opensores gnat tho ( i was never able to get it to run, seems to only work on winblowz and shituntu )
mircea_popescu: a most infuriating implementation of broken-by-design, ironically exactly the thing foss was supposed to prevent.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899779 << cuz he figures their "idea" of "make money by consulting! like red hat!" poisonous esr nonsense was in practice implemented by breaking the standard for free, so you "buy product".
mod6: Lords and Ladies of the Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation's State of Bitcoin Address [February] : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2019-March/000325.html
a111: Logged on 2019-02-23 05:28 mircea_popescu: in any case, the ownership of this entire thing is clearly established, and entirely nobody the fuck else outside of properly authorized republican hands may fucking touch it.
bvt: i can try killing that code to see what happens -- i don't even understand why zcx won't just work, and there is no information on this problem in the whole internet
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 16:27 asciilifeform: the only reason asmism even potentially invites itself, is that idjit compiler gives no primitive for add/sub-with-carry or full-word mul
bvt: diana_coman: it seems so, the code for ignoring aborts on zcx was added in 2003 and not touched since that time, so i agree with "broken by design"
diana_coman: well, at least that choice of only sjlj for certified profiles makes some sense since zcx is just not doing the full job as it were
asciilifeform: ( ye olde msdos did not claim to implement multitasking at all, so dun really belong in this comparison, but the various bolt-on tsr systems for same also had this property )
asciilifeform: btw there were a great many 1990s os that behaved exactly like zcx model -- no preemption, tasks run until they yield or self-terminate. e.g. win9x, crapple os <= 9, etc
asciilifeform: bvt: i started with the supposition that it was built for irons where there is no time slicer , but currently nfi whether this is so, or whether was simply a kludge for no particular reason
diana_coman: in truth, they do say "coding standard verification" but I suspect that means whether a piece of code follows whatever convention specified for that project, hm
diana_coman: ah, not with the standard, ofc not; with whatever certificate x measures (as they say: traceability, formal verification, stack consumption)
asciilifeform aint about to use a closed turd compiler , regardless, for any practical work. but still finds the q of 'is there a standard-compliant adatron somewhere' not wholly uninteresting
diana_coman: ah, hm, I thought there was some different version/moar features in the commercial version; anyway, I have to admit I did not really try to get it running as there was no ..need felt for it so far
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'compliance tools' aha. but , if not with the standard... then with what.
asciilifeform: those come with the opensores gnat tho ( i was never able to get it to run, seems to only work on winblowz and shituntu )
diana_coman: my impression was that their upsell was mostly on tools i.e. the IDE whatever-its-name-was
asciilifeform: currently i've nfi where, if indeed at all, 'pro' differs from the public gnat.
diana_coman: last time I had to have any sort of idea what that meant, it was iirc having the stamp of higher-stamped stamp-stampers etc
asciilifeform: the 'pro' item is iirc advertised as 'certified', whatever that means
asciilifeform: diana_coman: only from entomological pov. i.e. do they break the opensores one deliberately , to upsell to the payware? or both equally braindamaged.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect this aint the last time we find that gnat breaks standard
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 17:51 mircea_popescu: in any case, there's no basis for a standard-breaking runtime here. "oh, it gains some speed in corner case", gimme a break, go implement the standard.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899741 -> this is imo the most puzzling part of it all: how, just how is breaking the standard justified in those conditions
asciilifeform: one interesting twist, the machine actually has an ionization gauge below the bottom, under the crosshair. and control panel allows to specify exposure in terms of the gauge output, but in nonsensical 'AEC' arbitrary unit
asciilifeform ~still~ frustratingly wedged with mircea_popescu's tube puzzle , turns out the 'S' constant for 35kV aint published anywhere, incl. the tube vendor ! and no info published re how to determine it from principles, seems like it gotta be measured by hand.
asciilifeform: ( and the various semaphorisms that it makes necessary )
asciilifeform: good % of the riotous complexity of the sadkernel, once you subtract deviceisms, is the slicer
asciilifeform: why the fuck machine even has an interrupt controller, if idjit programmers run slicer to continuously poll e.g. blocking i/o . it's ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: switching was necessary in the early days of computing, when one ox fucked many men.
mircea_popescu: then computers turn around and it's all "oh, you know, what, this compuiter could cook vegetables one slice of each at a time" "and wash knife in between ?!" "of course!"
mircea_popescu: entirely possible. there's a large tower of "too smart for own britches" usually hiden behind these "blac arts"
asciilifeform: and oughta have 1 thread per core, and the rest -- yield
asciilifeform: while on subj, asciilifeform aint even sure if the traditional slicing scheduler is Right Thing
asciilifeform: btw when we plant gnatism on bare irons, will have to implement a scheduler, and it is 'black art' of sorts ( how big to make the quantum ? how to apportion slices to cores ? etc )
mircea_popescu: replete with the "learned helplessness" condiments it's breaded with, for shame.
mircea_popescu: as things stand now, zcx meets exactly the wrecker's profile.
mircea_popescu: in any case, there's no basis for a standard-breaking runtime here. "oh, it gains some speed in corner case", gimme a break, go implement the standard.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've had occasion to move the stack limit ( when tested ffa with massive fz widths, recall , all allocations are on stack ) but not otherwise
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that diana_coman is the 1st to actually measure, since 1990s (if indeed anyone bothered then)
mircea_popescu: these, incidentally, are pretty brutal testing conditions. the average program isn't likely to go 20mn procedure calls deep (witness that almost nobody even knows how to move the stack limit in kernel).
mircea_popescu: in any case, it seems the heathen claim that "it is faster" is only true in a very narrow corner. otherwise--false.
diana_coman: the difference was big only on the 2-cores intel but then again, what tasks there anyway
asciilifeform: i dun recall whether i put this in the log, but asciilifeform found that if proggy does not use tasks, the 2 variants appear to build identical binary
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the present juncture i can't actually tell. it seems to (very slightly) slow down loops while performing merely slightly better than sjlj with no handlers set.
asciilifeform: wtf is even the point of zcx on pc ( not speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895611 horrors ) then.
mircea_popescu: the differences aren't huge, 121.9171600 vs 121.816518000 and 879.95117100 vs 879.7342540 sorta thing. but they are consistent.
mircea_popescu: so from the actual data : properly static sjlj ~actually faster~ than zcx, on various cases of tall tower of nested loops
asciilifeform: would look rather like the https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F8268825-01.jpg heathen board
asciilifeform: really oughta have a backplane connector, also ( the actual rk, takes up good 70-80% of enclosure space with cabling and legs )
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform would luvv a rk-like item baked by sane folx, could easily be half the size or smaller, i.e. w/out the useless ports, and perhaps with e.g. sata instead )
asciilifeform: rk actually has a video port, but asciilifeform baked the kernel w/out support for it
BingoBoingo: Well I plug the monitor into a blue VGA port
mircea_popescu: a well then!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899694 << it does, to what do you suppose BingoBoingo connects the console to see whether alive
asciilifeform: ( theoretically can do 70kV, per the sticker, but power supply deliberately capped by vendor, so as to get 100% absorption by the cabinet shields and sell as 'contained' or whatever oshaism it was called )
asciilifeform: the tube in asciilifeform's instrument maxes out at 35kV @ 0.3mA .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're commercially available , for cost of ~bmw , but i dun want one here lol
asciilifeform: i want lower/upper bound at least, or how the fuq to even know if could flip bit.
mircea_popescu: i know they did ; but it's perhaps worth revisiting!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun have a 10MeV source ( do you ?? ) . tho i suppose one could float the thing on balloon and hope to get lucky with cosmic ray..
asciilifeform went to compute mircea_popescu's q, 'just how much did it eat', apparently it's a bitch : absorption constant varies by chip, and in heavy industry folx mostly gave up , they stick dosimetric film underneath the board. i'ma get an upper bound tho, it's important q when we do the bitflip thing.
mircea_popescu: now do me teh pleasure and do teh math alongside the practical work eh! what is this, alf-is-15 lab discussions ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, it's about 10MeV ; i am pleasantly surprised you know about it, but i am unimpressed with the 1e8 error factor!
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 00:29 mod6: If inquiring minds would like to know, happy to elaborate. But I'll put up a blog post about it sometime before the end of the weekend I suspect.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-28 06:37 mircea_popescu: i think it's unconscionable to be flying this blind/by seat of pants. speaking of that "gilding the lilly", did you even calculate the remanent activity by component for that half hour of exposure ?
asciilifeform: ( funnily enuff, old man edison thought otherwise, was convinced that one could 'alchemize' with xray 'if you just crank it up enuff' ! )
mircea_popescu: for all you know the fg in question is hot enough.
mircea_popescu: or at least put a geiger to the smoldering remains ?
mircea_popescu: i think it's unconscionable to be flying this blind/by seat of pants. speaking of that "gilding the lilly", did you even calculate the remanent activity by component for that half hour of exposure ?
asciilifeform thought 'oughta transparent..' and closed hole in the sample shelf with paper.
asciilifeform: last lulzbit before asciilifeform to bed : the fibrous crud in the photo ? is 1 sheet of printer paper !
asciilifeform: aha, is what the dentists do. i'ma gild that lily when it turns out to need gilding tho, so far can already clearly distinguish 2 layers of pcb.
mircea_popescu: so sit down once and for all and write your equations towards usable form and there you go, math undergirth.
mircea_popescu: but the overarching thing here : you can't seriously expect to be doing this x ray stuff WITHOUT blowing dust off either h's matrices or the wavefunction.
mircea_popescu: anwyay, your other point is also quite sound : can certainly use low pass filter, such as metal mesh or w/e, to filter out lower energy. yes lower instant energy, but if expose for longer in the end get same total energy, more conveniently distributed on spectrum
asciilifeform thus far can add only that the victim fg still worx..
mircea_popescu: which is my point here, half hour of math will give you rough guidance. it may well be the chip can reasonably take half hour in the oven.
mircea_popescu: yes, but nevertheless, still calculable within reasonable precision.
asciilifeform: normally the killing dose for $chip is determined empirically.
mircea_popescu: right, the ion w/e,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can calculate the probability function of a single atom being moved, which'd be the quantum of gate breakage.
asciilifeform: ( and even there, 'tomographic' pic, i.e. from range of angle, gives moar bang for bux , possibly )
asciilifeform: the multi-voltage thing will make serious diff when we reverse e.g. 6+-layer pcb and the like.
asciilifeform: in the bolix board, i'ma pull the ics before it goes into the oven, they're all socketed, so sorta academic.
asciilifeform: sorta why dentist stuffs aluminum filter in the muzzle when xray. < 20kV or so just cooks meat, without reaching film.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at long wavelength, all but epsilon ends up going to cook the chip
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as no penetration in nature.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you get "0 penetration" in X time, try with 3x the time and see if it changes anything. if it does, you can then sorta-calc what exposure time you need (see the curves) and then judge if it's safe to expose that long.
asciilifeform: will prolly look vehehehery diff with the scintillator cassette + proper fujifilm
mircea_popescu: "orlov either graduated or dropped out from college, and could turn competent prose if kept on a short leash, but he tended to believe he can actually be in charge of things. left to his own devices, he indulged in antireality boat designs and ridiculous sociopolitical systematization."
mircea_popescu: "Tom either graduated or dropped out from an art school (accounts varied) and could turn out competent artwork if given careful direction, but he disliked being told what to do. Left to his own devices, he indulged in drawing cartoons that featured grotesque caricatures of himself plodding through post-apocalyptic landscapes littered with wrecks of his old cars and wandering shadows of his former girlfriends."
mircea_popescu suspects "his acquaintance Tom" is rather autorepresentational, for this reason.
mircea_popescu: this is actually a great orlov piece ; once he abandons his nonsensical hallucinations of "having grasped the big picture" and takes up simple description he's actually quite readable.
mircea_popescu: ^ the us "right", by and large.
mircea_popescu: s an avid conversationalist and could easily be prompted to hold forth on any number of subjects, although his poor grasp of the facts and numerous delusional convictions invariably caused his narratives to become mired in internal contradictions."
mircea_popescu: "Another housemate, George, had a vicious temperament and had been in and out of jail many times. He was permanently one parole violation away from ending up back on the inside and had long given up any hope of getting his drivers license back. He had been virile and fecund and had a couple of former wives who had taken out restraining orders against him and several children whom he wasnt allowed to see. George wa
mircea_popescu: maybe the next one.
asciilifeform: ( typically this involves 150kv+ xray, which goes straight through the film w/out exposing it, and film is then exposed by electrons emitted from ~underneath~ )
asciilifeform: the ~real~ gold would be if could emissograph it. like those rembrandts. but i dun think my current gear is up to it.
asciilifeform: really oughta ~lap~'em off, rather than conventional end mill
asciilifeform: if i had 9000 units to work with, then defo would
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from the lit, seems like it's an iffy way to take off layers, tends to induce thermal cracks
mircea_popescu: yes it will take more time / cost reagents. nevertheless, "here's my micron-by-micron decap of bolix."
mircea_popescu: you knjow, the micron at a time might be a good thing to do ~anyway~.
asciilifeform: it's not even clear that this dance is req'd, of yet, seems like there's a lid which simply needs to come off, on these
mod6: If inquiring minds would like to know, happy to elaborate. But I'll put up a blog post about it sometime before the end of the weekend I suspect.
asciilifeform does not know why this had to wait for 30 YEARS, but dun intend to let it wait another 3
asciilifeform: ... after that, perhaps xray backscatter on the exposed die, or similar exotica.
asciilifeform: ... with the finest-grain film available , naturally, + http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875800 .
asciilifeform: ( cut and then what ? then -- (trad chemical!) photography. there aint nuffin in there that's any smaller than visible wavelength. )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:56 asciilifeform: phf: and wasn't 'week ago', but year + 3mo ago, when i took delivery of the 2 raw ivories.
asciilifeform: ( not today. and not tomorrow ; but asciilifeform would ~really~ not rather end up having a second http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881965 thrd ! when revving up the saw. )
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 16:26 phf: asciilifeform: before you agree to a decap, give me some more time to get you the docs, maybe they'll be enough to get things going. i'd hate to lose an ivory to get some pretty but useless pictures, i'd rather it fry on a breadboard in the process of directed discovery
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i hate to become 'thread necromancer', but would really like a resolution of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 & the related quandaries some time before i die of old age. plox to comment.
asciilifeform: holyfuq the mustache on that d00d
BingoBoingo: ^ Tried digesting the situation in greater depth, but speakers of Alien languages where one side pretends to do English
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: did not know. but it's a fairly basic observation, and i expect it occurs regularly to mircea_popescu & other thinking folx when seriously thinking re 'wai pc sux'
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 15:35 mircea_popescu: the only way to have sane republic is precisely the http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ which specifically here means, NO CALLS BACK UP THE TREE.
mircea_popescu: very much apropos, that discussion of the error of going back on the tree, which now i can't find.
mircea_popescu: whereas there's also a proper technology, which does not.
mircea_popescu: in short, there's a kind of "technology" that produces recursively these sorts of nooks and crannies for "nature, by itself" to return
mircea_popescu: note how "nature" aka shit fails to "make its way through the window" and still nevertheless give the woman peripueral fever even if you ~properly~ wash your hands.
mircea_popescu: certainly not. yet -- it makes a point, specifically that the whole "natura expellas" is a problem not so much of nature but rather of the nature of the expeller.
asciilifeform: iirc there was a site that had this js dosbox thing, for old games, some even ran. (it's no way to live, imho, tho)
asciilifeform: lol, even boots, but then 'Emulation aborted due to nested emulation timeout.'
mircea_popescu: right. but -- and this is the truly painful part -- for a ~defensible~ reason. he was doing it instead of tcc ~for rms's failure to rule~.