ben_vulpes: and none of these fancy "wine" thingies - that's an opaque and stupid market to sell into full of branding and other crap.
ben_vulpes wants to own an alcohol farm
ben_vulpes: re grape market << what are the best plants to farm for turning solar energy into sugar?
ben_vulpes: hola pumperos
ben_vulpes: 'twon't even be around forever. it's part of bootstrapping a slimmed down codebase that doesn't need all the trimming etc
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] (build script, that is) << every time i publish a revision it gets shorter and more legible, fuck off
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: am i the only one who wonders why 1) checking hashes, inside a pgp-signed script, when patch sigs also are checked 2) patches & their hashes, sigs, listed explicitly, instead of iterating over directory << consider it an excess of paranoia
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> "blood pressure boost" << can't tell whether this is good or bad for your health
ben_vulpes: side note: that's the informal name for the infrastructure provisioning tool i wrote for internal use
ben_vulpes: man i wrote hairball a lot last night
ben_vulpes: eg "we ain't buyin yer shitcoins"
ben_vulpes: plot!
ben_vulpes: so xxxterm furned into xombrero which maintained by conformal?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> danielpbarron: and find out whether process actually died, or merely went into one of the up to hour-long fugues the bastard bitcoind goes into when everybody it connects to wants nothing but to supply bastards << in these fuges, does it report that "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade." ?
ben_vulpes: mnah i don't think that's actually going to work so well
ben_vulpes: i guess i gotta, huh
ben_vulpes: does anyone have a recommendation for an x11 friendly browser?
ben_vulpes: withdrawals are an antipatten
ben_vulpes: "why?"
ben_vulpes: question being the same as one would have for the matchstick eiffel tower engineer
ben_vulpes: it's not entirely out of the question that the ri could even be coerced into hooking onto arbitrary altchains with well-done configuration
ben_vulpes: PeterL: yeah, it'd be nice to get everything configified
ben_vulpes: sweet dreams, pete
ben_vulpes: lets not bother ourselves with 3/4 sigma shit tho.
ben_vulpes: sure, exceptions exist
ben_vulpes: i'll go further, PeterL, $myStatism is actually discouraged by *all* political groups.
ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/02/01_hacking-on-the-satoshi-codebase-some-pointers.html << to be outdated sometime in the next 30 days
ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot jurov
ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot mod6
ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot PinkPosixPXE
ben_vulpes: gets blocks, barfs blocks, relays transactions. i've not heard any serious arguments for inclusion of additional functionality beyond that.
ben_vulpes: truth be told, frere, the RI's just that. it's not supposed to be fancy or anything.
ben_vulpes: yeah, call it the wish list.
ben_vulpes: or if it's opening them it sure as hell isn't doing anything with them
ben_vulpes: lolno
ben_vulpes: (if multiple peers are available, and the implementation's coding is up to the concurrency)
ben_vulpes: dunno about how many n's would be involved but in terms of *should*, blocks *should* be checked against a few peers.
ben_vulpes: while we're on the topic, a single node should never be a single source of blocks.
ben_vulpes: what kind of chemistry d'you do?
ben_vulpes: trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/
ben_vulpes: $conference
ben_vulpes: PeterL: are you getting conned this spring?
ben_vulpes: you've been reading logs, haven't you.
ben_vulpes: PeterL!
ben_vulpes: !up samO_
ben_vulpes: *** samO_ (~samO@109-92-79-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) has joined channel #bitcoin-assets
ben_vulpes: samO_: your cloak is getting applied after you join channels
ben_vulpes: lol your grip on the fabric of reality isn't that stiff yet boss
ben_vulpes: (i roast none better than myself. it's a...skill.)
ben_vulpes: who said i wanted to wade hip deep into cpp or straighten out everyones mental models
ben_vulpes: who said i wanted to!
ben_vulpes: i'm not really that bright it turns out
ben_vulpes ponders the unintentional double entendre
ben_vulpes: control problems, control problems everywhere.
ben_vulpes: myeah
ben_vulpes: "one shouldn't be a doctor" << the doctoring's forced on one
ben_vulpes: a few are right on the cusp, but it's taken years to get them there
ben_vulpes: trick being to deliver the beatings without going to jail in this here country
ben_vulpes: yeah
ben_vulpes: the "objectification is part and parcel of having a cunt" line takes more delicacy and subtlety than i've yet cultivated.
ben_vulpes: i've been considering how to present this to the "feminists" in my vicinity
ben_vulpes: "deflation"?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: no way. it respondes to ./bitcoind -datadir=. -port=... -rpcport=... stop, but not to kill $BITCOIND_PID
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: having now sent kill $(cat bitcoind.pid) several times, i'm no longer so certain that the damn thing obeys SIGTERM.
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: it's deterministic, if that's what you're asking.
ben_vulpes: i wanted it running in the context of cron, so i'll probably have to do some shooping of stuff around.
ben_vulpes: gotcha, thanks asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've already lost days to shutting the thing down forcefully, i'm determined to not waste any more time with things that can be automated.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: thing is, i want it to shut down cleanly and reboot shortly after it exits cleanly.
ben_vulpes: not trimmed from the logs, but prevented from speaking during a roasting.
ben_vulpes: <phillipsjk> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2015#997252 << actually just shutting someone up temporarily
ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/3YZXENS << anyone know of a tidier way to reboot bitcoind?
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: best electric tranny is ICE powered.
ben_vulpes: ;;ping
ben_vulpes: now has qntra for poops
ben_vulpes: cannot poop without internet
ben_vulpes: yess
ben_vulpes: oh man argentine blood sausage
ben_vulpes: i'll settle for my mother's praise
ben_vulpes: that's for the sons of ishmael
ben_vulpes: someone remind me why i do anything
ben_vulpes: not only do you intend to pauperize me but also demoralize
ben_vulpes: not fair
ben_vulpes: practice and hone
ben_vulpes: my poor ego will never recover
ben_vulpes: you and hanbot get to dial yours in
ben_vulpes: you're so privileged, mircea_popescu!
ben_vulpes: man talk about insider baseball this shit's not even going to be proofable against other humans
ben_vulpes: mk i can probably cook something up
ben_vulpes: i think as host you should be c3's target
ben_vulpes: so is it a round robin roastage? everyone roasts in turn?
ben_vulpes: i'm not actually funny!
ben_vulpes: ugh
ben_vulpes: i gotta cook up some roasts then
ben_vulpes: oh ho ho ho
ben_vulpes: lordship list
ben_vulpes: cjc: wouldn't stand for "chicago journal of commerce" by any chance?
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: interesting hypothesis
ben_vulpes: cjc: there's also log.bitcoin-assets.com
ben_vulpes: cjc: which article?
ben_vulpes: i do so love nasty stinky cheeses
ben_vulpes: *sigh*
ben_vulpes: came back with tillamook extra sharp.
ben_vulpes: i sent one of the guys out to get me a cheese yesterday. "cheddar, sharp, really solid, aged."
ben_vulpes: it's downright heartwarming
ben_vulpes is trying to decide how much he cares about running btcd
ben_vulpes: fluffypony: doesn't really cover the apparently epic dependency graph of btcd
ben_vulpes: i'm no expert with their ecosystem, so i may be doing it wrong.
ben_vulpes: fluffypony: "go get ..."
ben_vulpes: turdlang indeed.
ben_vulpes: conformal, btcd, compiling << btcd won't even compile on a vps with ~600 mb of ram. OOM kill.
ben_vulpes: pics! nao!
ben_vulpes: SUBTERFUGE
ben_vulpes: for some reason the "upload a public key" feature for aws has gone missing.
ben_vulpes: huh
ben_vulpes: gavin andresen is unchangeably biased against solutions that preserve scarcity semantics.
ben_vulpes: "I feel bad suggesting that we limit the block size at all," << there. another knife.
ben_vulpes: buenos dias
ben_vulpes: inv cannot be used for block retrieval?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: pardon?
ben_vulpes: pardon?
ben_vulpes: should really ask for specific blocks and drop all unasked for
ben_vulpes: it's almost as though the satoshi codebase were a projection of software that knows how to talk to the one! true! bitcoin protocol.
ben_vulpes: kinda fascinating
ben_vulpes: "software never fails", and so on.
ben_vulpes: once it worked, though, it was doomed to work.
ben_vulpes: a coherent vision of how all of the parts interact, the emergent behaviors of the system and a robustish bit of software that can make sense of the system.
ben_vulpes: if you'll forgive the rant, this is what the satoshi codebase lacks.
ben_vulpes: someone *designed* each and every mechanism to work together.
ben_vulpes: no
ben_vulpes: a thing i learned about engineering when i was...oh, six...was that the steam engine doesn't just work because doodz sat and tweaked at it until everything went around just rightly.
ben_vulpes: anyways, the parallels between how bitcoind only accidentally works and misc odd behaviors of this ancient floppy plastic toolbox are very apparent to me at precisely this moment.
ben_vulpes: i'd post a pic but...le "smart"phone.
ben_vulpes: resulting in the thing resting at the unstable point at the top of the arc.
ben_vulpes: there's an interesting configuration of the trays where the center of gravity of the top tray is balances the CoG of the bottom tray. this requires torquing the whole assembly such that the CoG's go in a funny place.
ben_vulpes: toolbox on the table has a top tray and a bottom tray, connected by parallel braces, mounted at identically-spaced points on both trays. trays move on an arc defined by mechanisms constraints.
ben_vulpes just observed an interesting
ben_vulpes: march *is* spring
ben_vulpes: "git" shows sun march 11 2012 as last commit at ref tagged as v0.5.3
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "block height" << excellent question
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform [] knows how/why but still bewildered that no one has at any point seen it fit to bolt on basic sanity << features, bro
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: dude from ro?
ben_vulpes: nah, give up trinque
ben_vulpes: don't call the funny stuff funny, midnightmagic, they might erect you your own gibbet
ben_vulpes: including not calling the funny stuff funny
ben_vulpes: you gotta swear to all sortsa funny stuff
ben_vulpes recently filled out passport paperwork
ben_vulpes: yup!
ben_vulpes: solar troughs don't build themselves.
ben_vulpes: nah, plenty of labor to go around.
ben_vulpes: shame, that.
ben_vulpes: it's your lucky day!
ben_vulpes: normally i'm brushed off like a fly.
ben_vulpes: you could be the first! best!
ben_vulpes: like the first time anyone's ever done so!
ben_vulpes: it'd be cool man!
ben_vulpes: HEY GUISE IM STRONGLY SOMETHING OR OTHER
ben_vulpes: i'm just amused at the presentation
ben_vulpes: <midnightmagic> uh. just for the record << lol what inspired this insipid bit of authority pandering?
ben_vulpes: satoshi the thought-criminal.
ben_vulpes: i wonder how that works.
ben_vulpes: former genius?
ben_vulpes: returnofkinks << bahahaha
ben_vulpes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2u7ddq/the_real_reason_ryan_charles_was_fired_from/
ben_vulpes: WHATEVER
ben_vulpes: hm.
ben_vulpes: it's actually a manual walking of the shop wot
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform clearly has no peers capable of reading his code
ben_vulpes: yeah i do it manually on walks with individual contributors
ben_vulpes: you stop it with your mad quest for metriced decisionmaking
ben_vulpes: NO QUANTIFICATION
ben_vulpes: i was just about to say.
ben_vulpes: i'm apparently in the unique situation of reading through all code that gets produced in my shop and having more or less everyone's eyes on everyone's product.
ben_vulpes: hmph. nevermind.
ben_vulpes: interesting hostname, berndj
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: you'll need a cloak.
ben_vulpes: so long as the fp doesn't change how does that matter?
ben_vulpes: changing names not a good practice?
ben_vulpes files it for peacetime
ben_vulpes: i'd like to be more familiar with that archive.
ben_vulpes: myeah.
ben_vulpes: we have relationships with our clients, get to know their business and make a nominal difference in how they do it.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: we definitely diverge from the original topic significantly here, but "community" and "belongingness" is a core part of what we do.
ben_vulpes: non monetary remuneration.
ben_vulpes: there's another side to that as well, which is that the people with whom I work who do things at the 2x-3x range of the others actually enjoy teaching juniors and collaborating on these projects.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'd love to read it
ben_vulpes: trinque: well if you know what you're doing, and you're climbing with Ballmer...
ben_vulpes: a bit of economics: in training those people, their value delivered goes up disproportionately to their wage hikes.
ben_vulpes: in our snowflake of a case, that's more due to the difference between people who've seen things like the bug under the microscope before, and people who've yet to learn the myriad of tools and mental models to cope effectively.
ben_vulpes: perhaps 2x to 3x
ben_vulpes: i'd not go so far as to say "order of magnitude"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: several.
ben_vulpes: but what about the project whose maintainer has ghosted themselves off to the next interesting thing?
ben_vulpes: sure, for greenfield absolutely.
ben_vulpes: someone must foot the bill for that.
ben_vulpes: this takes time.
ben_vulpes: the source must be read, neh?
ben_vulpes: but someone must invest the capital to justify loading it into a team's shared understanding.
ben_vulpes: no doubt, asciilifeform, no doubt.
ben_vulpes: as we get up to speed on a given codebase/ops story, shit moves vastly more quickly.
ben_vulpes: each a snowflake with its own peculiarities.
ben_vulpes: well, we work with derpy web stacks man.
ben_vulpes: this allows the man who only cares to work for 15 hours per week to do so, comfortably, provided he's good at what he does.
ben_vulpes: some read and do (the correct thing) very quickly, and are remunerated in proportion to their time spent and speed at which they do it.
ben_vulpes: you're forcing a metaphor.
ben_vulpes: (is).
ben_vulpes: the fella who thinks for twice as long is generally not paid nearly what the one who can see it instantly.
ben_vulpes: others: read, think, occasionally produce a UI layout.
ben_vulpes: read, think. occasionally commit a line or two of code.
ben_vulpes: everything we touch gets the shit automated out of it as a precondition of touching it.
ben_vulpes: i've no business with "which screw" men.
ben_vulpes: i don't quite know if this is topologically different from an option pool with a vesting schedule, except that it provides some fairness proportionality to the time worked
ben_vulpes: i've been batting around the notion of a qntra-style stock pool, where stock in the operation would be issued in direct proportion to hours clocked on the project.
ben_vulpes: as an aside, the whole vesting thing is odd.
ben_vulpes: tricky, indubitably.
ben_vulpes: it's more like "dood i know and respect knows and respects this other dood, so i guess i'll give him a whirl".
ben_vulpes: mind you, coderwill "friends" is not the criteria.
ben_vulpes: wots rule everything around me
ben_vulpes: <coderwill> trinque: re: hiring, probably best to start small with people you trust almost unconditionally << i've had decent success hiring friends and their friends.
ben_vulpes: hence beatings.
ben_vulpes: fucked without external intervention.
ben_vulpes: short the shartups
ben_vulpes: yeah fuck equity
ben_vulpes: oh, mostly just trolling you
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: undergrads who 'rock the boat' end up 'having problems', one way or another. see also the folks who posted diffs b/w one semester's textbook and next's << can't say as that was my experience. i rocked the boat constantly and still managed to eke some funding out of the university for harebrained rocket schemes
ben_vulpes: i didn't even see the reorderings, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: RI, by my understanding: downloads and verifies blockchain; regurgitates blocks on demand; relays transactions.
ben_vulpes: not really the remit of the RI tho.
ben_vulpes: hear hear
ben_vulpes: !s getdata
ben_vulpes: have in fact complained about this in the past.
ben_vulpes: i.
ben_vulpes: 'pierce' << i think fondly of that time in my life when i had several holes in my face
ben_vulpes: any time anyone brings up brock i think of pokemon.
ben_vulpes: blocksam
ben_vulpes: the latter
ben_vulpes: obsessions of the unsexed
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski i'll be lucky to get my butt in a miata this decade
ben_vulpes: https://diafygi.github.io/webrtc-ips/ << and the demo (warning: hostile)
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/diafygi/webrtc-ips << well here's some strange
ben_vulpes: lost
ben_vulpes: hah lols
ben_vulpes: bastardblocks
ben_vulpes: but in keeping around orphan chains, the enemy can pollute ones disk trivially.
ben_vulpes: that, i do not know.
ben_vulpes: "reference node should only keep track of a single chain: the longest discoverable"
ben_vulpes: mk a contention:
ben_vulpes: i'll settle for stakes and sucking holes in everyones chest.
ben_vulpes: la vie, c'est le travaille