assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:49; trinque: the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225134 < this is uniquely impractical because a) an actually stared definition of laziness that fails to include most everyone otherwise occupied has yet to be seen and b) you'd better not dare create a system that insults the powerful.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:15; ben_vulpes: i can just imagine the arguments
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225130 << instead of imagining the arguments you two'd better quote them. THAT much of a process we do have, and it's both explicitly stated and in daily implicit visible use.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:12:14; ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:10:05; BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?
assbot: Athens 1944: Britain’s dirty secret | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1W17506 )
BingoBoingo: It was around then though that I realized that no amount of 1 on 1 coaching directed at unknowns could have the same impact MP had when he declared Max Keiser was a doody head.
BingoBoingo: It was an inflection point. I mean back then Eulora was jsut a jizzlet in MP's balls
shinohai: But no: "The app developer *assures us it is safe, so it must be*"
shinohai: n00bs generally go for the shiny and loud
shinohai: He definitely had a way with people. There are peeps to this day that still defend him and inputs.
BingoBoingo: Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally.
shinohai: I never used inputs.io though. The whole thing of not owning your keys seemed silly to me.
BingoBoingo: But MPT made it way to clear in his adverts that he did "dark web stuff" to address him as a person. That would be like buying a gram of blow from the white boy dressed as a pimp.
BingoBoingo: TradeFortress appears in retrospect to have jsut been another parasitic chicom
shinohai: Yeah it appears he got sloppy or just didn't care. I bought btc from him several times despite the war between him and TradeFortress.
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc. << I'd already met alf here. For all they know everything has the thermite.
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader << iirc he made it rahter clear he was shady. BTcPak had a .com site and everything I needed to believe in it at the time.
punkman: I'd sue them
punkman: girl's sister was at her parent's house for a night. parents were on vacation, so neighbor hears noise and calls the cops. cops show up banging on the door at 3am, she opens door and there were 3-4 submachineguns pointed at her.
shinohai: I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader
BingoBoingo: The exact service they asked me about was the late BTCPak operated by DBordello. All I knew was I used it and it worked.
shinohai: Musta been a slow crime month, they were looking to invent something.
BingoBoingo: But this is exactly how to handle an encounter of the Federal kind. You sweat them away and you disclose it happened.
shinohai: > "the FBI agent name dropped Coindesk as a thing he reads...."
BingoBoingo: It was hot, I didn't let them in so we had a pow wow on the front lawn until they quit.
assbot: A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared | Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2loNL )
BingoBoingo: Well it was one FBI agent and one Treasury agent. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/25/a-law-enforcement-encounter-if-you-ran-a-bitcoin-related-service-before-the-thing-hit-100-you-prolly-ought-to-be-somewhat-concerned-andor-prepared/ I still have the Treasury agent's card. FBI fucker never offered his.
shinohai: When you are unemployed and bored, naturally you want a wifi antenna capable of covering the whole neighborhood with internet.
shinohai: You had the FBI? You got more rep than me. I only had FCC come to make me take down my super yagi.
BingoBoingo: I've already had the FBI at my front door. I'd just like to become the sort of #b-a dragon who can embrace axe time
BingoBoingo entered into deedbot that condemnation for more than just "there exists" a misdemeanor charge
shinohai: In the real world I have to use Windows
BingoBoingo would have to relocate bu plans to get the beapest place that only requires two months rent on top of deposit
shinohai: Ah good luck on the job.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: I might have the rare opportunity to interview for a fiat job. If I get it I want a part of this window to get cheap coins.
BingoBoingo wonders if Byrne/Swanson et al ever wander here and see the hate I spew for far smaller problems and wonder... What if Bingo isn't just an MP sock puppet that emerges under the influence of coke?
BingoBoingo: patents are probably all on the binders, probably all borrowed from Eli Lily
BingoBoingo: For a 110 pound teenager to reach the poisoning level and hit the ER it would still take hald a poing of the stuff, plus binders.
punkman: of course it's the first best palchohol
punkman: "Mark searched for powdered alcohol and it wasn't available. Over a few years, with the help of scientists around the world, Mark was able to create powdered alcohol. So he began his quest to create it. After years of research, experimentation and consultation with scientists around the world, he finally came up with powdered alcohol and called it Palcohol."
BingoBoingo: punkman: Well consider a pint bottle of cheap vodka is 40% alcohol by volume, roughly the same by mass
punkman: I remember some discussion about how much the thing would weight
HeySteve: hi there
BingoBoingo: Also alcohol bound in carbohydrates? Prolly going to be a fat sack to the shit jsut to get buzzed.
BingoBoingo: punkman: They tabled that motion so not banned.
assbot: The Top Ways Palcohol Abuse Could Present to the Emergency Department - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasJfk )
BingoBoingo: Also, how out of sync is the medical profession with the youth? http://epmonthly.com/article/palca-what/
BingoBoingo: punkman: Well hopefully they stop prescribing for their old coots threatening their licenses first
assbot: FDA Finally Approves The Ativan Diffuser for all Hospital Units | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPGdtQ )
punkman: http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ << the broadcast overflows and gets clipped, have to view source
BingoBoingo notes filings issued in venues other than a #b-a deedbot will from now and from twenty years in the past be treated as suggestions rather than orders.
BingoBoingo used to believe St Cliar County authorities might read this chan, now pretty sure they don't, but figure there is a lack of better public records so their doom if they don't read.
BingoBoingo: I might not remember why in the morning I decided tonight would be the night to file this, but I left myself copious notes.
BingoBoingo: My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability.
BingoBoingo: Also if anyone with a bunch of power words (danielpbarron) can identify either on any relevant Bitcoin related WoT I would appreciate a heads up.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: ;;later tell felipelalli you've spoken about the idea of rating people not in the WoT; there's a great way ^
BingoBoingo may be rather intoxicated
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases? << Honestly prolly. A recipe that provides ABI compatibility with 2.6.x Linux kernel is prolly fine. People can adapt to other environments.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects << Far worse in PoundNation 0.9+ where classes
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts. << And then shell changes
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log) << stator, rotor work to build a bitcoind on the "mint" ubuntu-like. Don't remember installing more dev tools after g++ for stator
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works << Ugliest artifact. MIN_RELAY_TXFEE and MINTXFEE live in main.h and init.h when patched. very volatile line numbers
ben_vulpes to have a brow soothed on a sweet busom
ben_vulpes: shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release << and this raises another question, shall mod6 and i now switch our build process to involve the rotor assemblage?
asciilifeform: (forgot this, and relearned the hard way, sat with gdb for a spell)
decimation: one would need to iterate through all of them and call delete
decimation: the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects
ben_vulpes: mine explode at the line that fails instead of airily carrying on as though nothing happened.
decimation: asciilifeform: one annoyance about the logs: missing entries
trinque: what's the social structure here, what decisions did it fart out?
trinque: what's needed imo is something which displays the history of *decisions* made, secondarily patches
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my patches are useless if folks can't build them and test
asciilifeform: not in the land of sunshine & kittenz, at any rate
decimation: and there is no tool (as far as I know) that automates this task
asciilifeform: does have the behaviour described earlier, though
decimation: one of the annoyances of c++ is that it is strongly typed and yet devilishly hard to tell *what* type
ben_vulpes: in the meantime, know that these few hours per day *i* do have might be put to better use than derping of dirs.
trinque the fatty who hasn't exercised in 6mos... talking about rock climbing...
trinque: sometimes you get a shitty handhold, but you don't immediately shout "fuck this!" and let go of the wall
ben_vulpes: trinque: was there, saw, comiserated
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: make use of the fact that i am yet alive! post errorz, logs
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log)
decimation: thus, you need the whole repo state per patch
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the antecedents thing for one
asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~
decimation: which you can't get unless you have the whole repo stepped forward to the state of ap articular patch
decimation: asciilifeform: for one thing, you would need to see the patch in context
asciilifeform: i said before, will say again: if the labour of crunching the patches looms large, it is only because folks are not undergoing the greater torment of reading them
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: (why aren't they?)
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah, but the patches are a tree, not a timeline
asciilifeform: trinque: i happen to think that throwing patches to ml, where they are all visible in chronological order, is a step forward from them living on my www
trinque: dev is its own concern which might have other processes; you could say that a particular feature branch eventually gets flattened down into a release patch
decimation: it would be nice to have a button to click: download the 'original tree' plus patches to get to this patch
trinque: the ML is imo for releases, which should consist of bundles of signed patches
trinque: however, these are separate concerns
trinque: git's binary db format is certainly *not* capable of being the canonical representation of the project
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper
asciilifeform: the tool that man can trust to replace his brains is not yet born
decimation: I can't think of an off-the-shelf tool that would do everything mentioned above though
asciilifeform: decimation: the context is typically filled in, in pedantic detail, here.
decimation: part of the problem with the mailing list I see is that it's difficult to reconstruct the context of patches
asciilifeform: 'why do i have to stand here and watch the hill'
asciilifeform: 'why do i have to move these sandbags?'
asciilifeform: and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc
asciilifeform: also the continuity of identity. if, for example, my patches at some point go from tiny to elephantine, from single-purpose to 'omnibus', from deadly-simple to 'wtf is that' - folks are to presume that i have been finally killed and key is in hands of hitler. and should then rate accordingly.
asciilifeform: i sign xxx. the readers are then free to rate me accordingly. this is how is works, by design.
decimation: my point is that it was made clear that anyone who signed something that fucked stuff up would suffer the negrating consequences
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << we're not signing because it has 'upside' now. but 1) because unsigned code is 'written by no one' and hence is a work of the great satan by default implication 2) for the archaeologists 3) for the revolutionary tribunals
decimation: asciilifeform: are the maps in question contained in your 'mempool zap patch'?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes i have nothing against 'git', 'mercurial', etc., and even sometimes use these in civilian life, there is even somewhere ~horror~ a 'github' page with my name and some old crud, yes. but the ~canonical walk from pedigreed 0.5.3 to therealbitcoin~ has to be in .patch form!
mod6: it does the same for me on multiple browsers too
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu your www layout somehow cuts the lines on s.nsa statement
trinque: the patches page helps a bit, but for example seeing easily from where various experimental patches derive
trinque: all I'm grumpy about is having something structured to put the patches in, really, with branching
asciilifeform: but yes, my particular ml posts are geared toward helping the folks i know to be presently involved ( ben_vulpes, mod6, trinque, mircea_popescu, shinohai, punkman, hanbot, who else?) to build.
asciilifeform: (iirc the 40000 was set prior to it)
asciilifeform: btw the db patch is not marked with antecedents because it has none (since last release)
ben_vulpes: patches and signatures in the repository itself. i'd not be averse.
trinque: you can do the same process better with a hierarchy of git repos
decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside
decimation: I thought ascii was okay with repos as long as it was clear which patches 'caused' the repo state
ben_vulpes: how much hell would i catch for sharing this with others?
ben_vulpes: i'm just trying to operate within these crazy boundaries. i don't have any process improvements that i'm sure wouldn't get shot down in a new york second from asciilifeform.
ben_vulpes: "what, you want to automate the nuclear power plant?"
trinque: then you can you know, use a power drill
ben_vulpes: "what, you want to automate this process that keeps the tards at bay?"
ben_vulpes: "a real contributor would write all of their own tooling to solve this"
ben_vulpes: i can just imagine the arguments
trinque: will either need tools built to support it, or will need to grab tools
trinque: the patch signing is great, but it's not a process by itself
trinque: then stepped back when shouted down
ben_vulpes: but this is bitcoin, where since time immemorial people have been shipping code that can only ever be tested in production and then standing by in amazement claiming that "nobody could have predicted!"
ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.
ben_vulpes: this makes for quite the testing nightmare. those interested in testing must reverse applied patches to your antecedent tip and then apply yours.
ben_vulpes: if you're up to date on the patching, submit a patch and note its antecedents.
ben_vulpes: last release, i'd prefer. asciilifeform tends to stack his patches atop one another.
BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?
ben_vulpes: nevertheless.
ben_vulpes is struck by the eerie resemblance to $dayjaeorb here
mircea_popescu: how about submiutting a "This doesn't work - don't use it" thing on the broken one
mircea_popescu: of course the logical approach would be to promote to stable ml patches that were signed
mircea_popescu: that stance may come with a cost to the ego.
mircea_popescu: the more common cop out is "fuck you, it's all testing".
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate the heroism of "fuck you, it's all stable". but then that comes at a cost.
mircea_popescu: the ml process needs some reviewing. it's sort of grown organically to a point where it's troublematic.
asciilifeform: at any rate, ben_vulpes is invited to fill in the gap and write literature for this piece
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if there is every any symptom of folks reading the ml but not #b-a, it might be worth considering to use the ml as something other than a file dumping ground for #b-a
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he does have a point. and normally i include some 'work of literature' with these
decimation: oh I thought this was all about the stl map, not boost unordered map
asciilifeform: srsly, ben_vulpes managed to install the uncorrected patch in the minutes between it and the new one ??
ben_vulpes: so i am to expect that patches arriving in the ML aren't even tested now?
ben_vulpes: that's the one i'm using!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: did you find a reason why maxint wouldn't work, or is the second patch just using mircea_popescu's lock values for 'myzteeri0us reezuns'?
mircea_popescu: the hash:sha512 line got mangled.
ben_vulpes: the first, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: i don't see it in the paste
asciilifeform: decimation: i often watch the trains go by, where i live. often, whole train is this.
decimation: my uni was across the river from massive hfcs plant. every day whole *trains* of hfcs tank cars would leave the station there
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Can make HCFS, but... less of it. Far less ears on the corn than I expect to see.
asciilifeform: of the recycled food - never
decimation: in which cpp file is the allocation stuff?
mircea_popescu: and besides, there's plenty stockpiled
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:36:09; BingoBoingo: I'd use a stronger word than terribly, but... local fields look like shit. Shit corn and god only knows if the soy will produce beans before becoming silage. I expect the mold to cause more than a few dairy die offs when it makes it to silage.
decimation: asciilifeform: did you figure out how you are gonna 'free' the data pointed to by map?
ben_vulpes: has anyone else compiled the maxint patch and received db.log errors of "unable to join environment"?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ? << Much of this demographic is USG. Not in the informant sense, but USG peeps needed meanign in their lives.
mircea_popescu: the problem is simply this : as you get successful you get fat, and that fat is then... coming to expect.
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2014 01:44:19; asciilifeform: or mrs. thatcher's 'we need no more than 15 mil. russians. to service the pipeline.'
asciilifeform: dope from 'favourite sons' - passes. from less-favourite - interdicted, to keep the jailatron lubed, and the high priesthood supplied with coke
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:24:30; asciilifeform: the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224797 << if you can you must and all that. recall the discussion.
mircea_popescu: pencildicks wanna use the heads. because dicks frangible.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my (admittedly limited) understanding is that usg play-fights with ~some~ organizations, and ~actually~ interdicts others
mircea_popescu: the idiotic non-violent behaviour of ruminants is not limited to ruminants. nobody really aims to gore the other party.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: for instance, where are the u.s. coast guard interdictors sunk by quadcopter-borne demolition charges ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224790 << the deal is, the us keeps pretending like it's fighting and in exchange the cartels keep pretending like they're fighting too.
asciilifeform: (i suppose the entrails of untermenschen differ from those of aryans, hence degree doesn't count)
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, same for pharmacists & other medical 'trades'
mircea_popescu: which is the very poiint of it.
decimation: think of all the bureaucrats that would suddenly be powerless
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is the basic 'orc' mechanism - someone had the liberty to say 'this kid passes, because fuck all of you'
mircea_popescu: nah, the idea is that if you get a good enough achievement, you get auto-diploma or w/e.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually in ro they let you do it.
asciilifeform: go and get license to practice medicine on the basis of, whatever, nobel in biology
decimation: asciilifeform: go try to pull an electrical permit from pg county on the basis of your degrees
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You don't understand. If Assad did this the rope would be on Ebay
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is about as 'shocking' as when usg 'surrendered' the 'strategic helium reserve' to smiths's detection corp. to make neutron detectors to sell back to usg/dhs
decimation didn't take power engineering in ee school; had other things to worry about
asciilifeform: or rather, the rms value is the one which makes any sense to use in calculation of wattage
asciilifeform: (1/sqrt(2) for the curious)
asciilifeform: e.g., rms(170) ~= 120, the u.s. traditional
BingoBoingo: And further a lol only socialism can bring http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-sues-own-civil-service-commission-over-reinstatement-of/article_ff9a4c8e-9783-5d43-aefb-f52aa07180d9.html
asciilifeform: this is the basic confusion of voltage oddities
asciilifeform: the higher, peak to peak sine
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the lower number is generally root-mean-square
asciilifeform: possibly all the police in the county ended up at the scene. largely standing around and looking busy
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely clear why the thiord phase is 160 rather than 110 in eu syste, but anywya
asciilifeform: according to fishwrap, some schmuck argued with gurl. policeman busted in. he snapped, drew pistol, shot gurl, then self in the head, brainz in all directions
decimation: us actually uses 240 for residential but it's delivered in two phases which are split at the panel. but it's common to use the full 240 for dryers and large equipment
asciilifeform: ^ in the city where i wurk
BingoBoingo: Ozone isn't as bad as the cigarettes I already smoke
BingoBoingo: Fuck it, I want the raw shit before it hits the transformer. I want to light my abode with an arc stretching across the room.
mircea_popescu: europe uses 220 for residential, 380 optional. or otherwise you can get a 2 or 5kv industrial line.
BingoBoingo waiting for mails. Doing the dance again with Uni to set up job interview. This time as customer service god. Would once again take cheapest of accomodations available for the lulz.
mircea_popescu: i imagine in the us it costs note from stalin
mircea_popescu: which, in europe, costs the asking.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> increasingly, becoming a problem i nthe us, too. << tell me about it
ben_vulpes: an surfeit of things to do and people to do them
BingoBoingo: Maybe? Or perhaps they just won't get apples because economy.
BingoBoingo: Winter 2013-2014 we got weeks of subzero weather, but no lasting damage. Summer 2012 mega-drought (by midwest standards) best peaches ever no lasting damage. This year with a bit cooler than normal summer and lots of rain... it looks like shit is going to be expensive for a while
BingoBoingo: If the apple trees start breaking up like the peach trees when they put out fruit this year that will be a double whammy rare, takes a decade to catch up damage.
BingoBoingo: Just like the rest of Aztlan