pete_dushenski: apparently 'not real' but who the fuck knows
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 19:13:28; mircea_popescu: ely almost entirely on expert opinion concerning the quality of the art, that is to say, is the quality of the art being examined of the quality expected of a painting by the artistin this case, Caravaggio.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248602 << my parents have a rather convincing 'kandinsky' at their place
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski goya is the definitive alf artist imo.
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 19:09:30; mircea_popescu: anyway, upon consideration venus does have to some degree the sharp features of the ideal fox. at least moreso than all the piefaces everyone wants to paint for some reason
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248594 << there's always modigliani if you're in need of a cure for 'pieface'
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248583 << my ol' romanian grandfather taught me this one... "non est disputandum" !
ben_vulpes: disease wasn't intentional at all, some vast majority was wiped out by unrecorded initial explorers of the americas
pete_dushenski: but speaking of goya, after the local art gallery was revamped a few years back, it finally snagged itself a goya exhibit, which was my first and only exposure to the spaniard's etchings
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 18:50:57; mircea_popescu: what part of doublethink you think got cancelled ? the man with two maja desnudas simply is twice as happy.
mats: state of the art -- muskets.
mats: err, for the white man*
mats: i dunno that guns were such an advantage against the white man.
pete_dushenski: 'indians should've never sucked so badly that they literally shat their skirts when they first saw a gun'
pete_dushenski: what is this, the right to be forgotten ?
pete_dushenski: 'as users try to remove their names' ??
assbot: Ashley Madison Suicide: Man On Hacked List Kills Himself As Users Try To Remove Their Names From Ashley Madison Leaked List ... ( http://bit.ly/1LrWvMC )
cazalla: http://www.inquisitr.com/2359051/ashley-madison-suicide-man-on-hacked-list-kills-himself-as-users-try-to-remove-their-names-from-ashley-madison-leaked-list/
mod6: Don't feel like it's a waste of time either to create your own method to generate these vpatches and see if we come out with the same resultant hash.
mod6: mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque & all: For your review. http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/orc.sh && http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/rel1.vpatch && http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/rel2.vpatch
mod6: This script is huge, but does quite a bit too. I'll post it and the resulting rel1.vpatch and rel2.vpatch here in a bit.
phf: "Normally this option is unnecessary, since patch can exam- ine the time stamps on the header to determine whether a file should exist after patching."
assbot: These people should be shot, basically. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLfqT6 )
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://trilema.com/2014/these-people-should-be-shot-basically/#comment-115108
mod6: oh the functionallity of "automatically pruning empty files" ?
mod6: dang, so close. i've basically got a rel1.vpatch and a rel2.vpatch all set -- but I'm seeing one strange thing... after doing the one-shot patching of either: rel1.vpatch leaves an empty 'makefile.linux-mingw' and 'qtui.h', while rel2.vpatch leaves an empty 'irc.h' and 'irc.cpp'.
ben_vulpes: which i suppose are nominally the same but raaaaa
ben_vulpes: dude autodesk fusion 360 does the DUMBEST POSSIBLE THING for EVERY constraint
mircea_popescu: gossipd the best i can think of.
mircea_popescu: l1 in the example
mircea_popescu: or as the case may be, specified by reference.
punkman: when multiple recipients, gpg makes a key, encrypts content with that key, the encrypt key separately for each recipient
mircea_popescu: via gossipd, is the closest i can see.
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform and whoever else is privately thinking of reimplementing pgp : one thing i'd dearly love would be the ability to encrypt not to X, but to "l1".
mircea_popescu: the lulz so produced should fill any lulztreasury.
mircea_popescu: <trinque> or if it did on some forkchain, who cares? that one will inflate << and for a while it will be "just as good as bitcoin" except "better", like all other scamcoins to date. like ethereum, and next before it, and aurora coin before it, and solidcoin before it and so on.
mircea_popescu: a retail payment system that isn't visa is going to be inferior to a retail payment system that is visa for the foreseeable future.
punkman: Szabo: "A retail payment system that makes the consumer worry about two prices instead of one is far inferior to system where merchant pays tx fee."
mircea_popescu: punkman yes of course. just as soon as there's observable value everywhere a horde of shitheads with spoons are moving towards it.
trinque: there surely will
punkman: there will be derps herping about 21m cap.
trinque: whether it can happen is by no means decided yet.
punkman: "What every digital goldbug should be thinking right now: if this can happen with block size, it can happen to the 21m supply cap."
mircea_popescu: #Made by MP, the 59675th item so made.
mircea_popescu: should we need a salt, in the shape of a #sigline for all authors ? something like
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 18:26:16; asciilifeform: my present understanding is that the only solution to this is that i intend to negrate anyone who EVER does this.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248467 << i'd like more explanation of how the fuck this could occur.
ben_vulpes: new theory: mpex price correlates with stans work on foundation client
mod6: oh this is pretty neat. so I got the mechanics tested & rebased for rel1 -- off of classic patches & genesis.vpatch to be sure. created a "rel1.vpatch" from that. then tested it, worked good on top of extracted genesis.vpatch. then did one of these numbers "cat genesis.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; cat rel1.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; patch -p1 < rel1-fromair.vpatch"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i was not reading messages at the time
phf: ben_vulpes: -p doesn't seem to do the same thing on os x as --parents does in gnu cp
mircea_popescu: could have just voiced the guy
ben_vulpes: pm'd me on the topic of --parents vs. -p and os x
mircea_popescu: first time the equivalent of turing's definition was constructed in practice.
ben_vulpes: it's a good and simple definition. "it must build bitcoin with V, it must sync a full chain verifying each block, and it must keep up with the main chain."
ben_vulpes: i'm rather enamored of how bitcoin defines computers now.
mircea_popescu: "There remains after today no alternative manner to deploy Bitcoin software, or indeed any software that is not a toy intended to be used by children playing, outside of this paradigm. May the switchover be bloody and painful in all the right places." is not some sort of a joke, and in no case can it be waved aside.
mircea_popescu: because the whitegoods are fucking made for a house with running water by people who have running water and intend to continue having it.
mircea_popescu: especially the dishwasher.
mircea_popescu: just like you can go make yourself a house on the prarie. it won't have running water. and all the whitegoods will work poorly fed from canister.
mircea_popescu: if it burns to the ground tomorrow it's about fifty million years too late.
mircea_popescu: humanity as it chooses to understand itself is the chief enemy, actually, and also the author of shit like the gnu diff. and everything else.
mircea_popescu: other projects can go get fucked.
punkman: no synergy plz, v will likely be used for other projects, without b-a wot, etc
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: and this exact scenario has played out a dozen or more times in the history of b-a
mircea_popescu: (really, V chiefly exists because we put other thibngs together a while back, and we didn't at the time know yet this is how it'll come out.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the graph thing is quite essential (and if no one else does it, i will) because it exposes the actual dependency flow
mircea_popescu: which is exactly a) what should be favoured (make it easy for the DEPLOYERS to sign, let the writers have to do all the hard work) and b) maximally economical.
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 16:05:39; asciilifeform: it is important that everyone who works on therealbitcoin sign 'genesis' and distribute said signature.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248374 << from my own pov it is very convenient, because it reduces to "sign the genesis and sign the meristems you are happy with in deployment"
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 15:53:24; asciilifeform: 'v' will recursively walk the hashes in the release and apply the necessary vpatches to produce the tree.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248343 << we still want the graph thing opf this btw.
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 14:31:53; fluffypony: so 6 hours till North Korea says they'll retaliate
ag3nt_zer0: good for the soul
mircea_popescu: b) you farm these and let them age, what's the big deal. 99% of all social media accounts are registered for the purpose of aging and then be used in a scam exactly like is contemplated here.
mircea_popescu: a) twitter is a piece of shit web 2.0 item. they are probably hacked by 4 different teams as we speak and they don't even known
punkman: antonosika: was the lost key also registered at mpex?
antonosika: Thanks for the sympathy mats
asciilifeform: antonosika: http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered << a less-expensive and altogether more diverting lesson
mats: poor guy does look like he may be the real thing. but, no private key, no futures :/
antonosika: take the action that you deem plausible
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: (they gotta be homogeneous, as in following the same dir pattern as in 'genesis', to avoid unnecessary complexity in my proggy)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: before you start recreating and signing 'orchestra' patches as well, also see the thread with mod6 where i explain that the paths need adjusting
antonosika: mircea_popescu: I hope you take a good ulterior consideration until then.
mircea_popescu: it starts with the whom.
mircea_popescu: antonosika no, that's not what it says. the contract creates no nude obligation to pay, which may be satisfied, and then a separate and ulterior consideration as to whom.
mats: how does that make sense? you may merely be the first to make the claim, and the genuine article did not yet get around to taking delivery
asciilifeform: antonosika: instead of making this argument, go claim the megatonne of gold sitting in zurich since ww2
antonosika: asciilifeform: hypothetically - as long as there is only one suggestion, from an impostor or not, for what account to make a payment to AND the contract finalises, wouldn't a future delivery contract state that a payment should take place?
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 15:41:34; trinque: I recall discussion of removing the timestamps, but didn't find a conclusion there
asciilifeform: or trinque rather
antonosika: hypothetically, as long as there is only one suggestion for what account to make a payment to and the contract finiliz
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: we zapped the timestamps
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to use 'git' or some other tardation knows where to find it.
asciilifeform: punkman: but if your alternative involves my signing of machine-generated code chimera, then ~i~ will not like it.
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 15:59:15; asciilifeform: creating the antipatch is likely to require some manual manipulation.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov what does your turdatron script do with attached sigs for which the message has no corresponding payload? looks through existing payloads ?
asciilifeform: i do not know whether he does this.
punkman: maybe because it already had the file
asciilifeform: punkman: actually you're right, i misread. assumed that the sig in the text is the sig in question
gribble: User 'antonosika', with keyid 86AC5789F93ED2E7, fingerprint 71A1EC4E1B6C7DD853FD856C86AC5789F93ED2E7, and bitcoin address None, registered on Sat Aug 9 17:27:20 2014, last authed on Tue Aug 26 10:21:38 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=antonosika . Currently not authenticated.
asciilifeform: that it, outside of the ----BEGIN .... ----END...
mircea_popescu: phf do you actually speak russian to the women ?
asciilifeform: punkman: a .sig file should consist wholly of the detached sig
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 16:18:02; asciilifeform: importantly, these need to be detached (own file) signatures. specifically ~not~ like this: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000150.html
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: can we wire this to !babbage or the like, l0l
asciilifeform: 'I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question!' (tm) (r) (babbage)
antonosika: If I do not have access to my backup key, and have a new comp - what proof would work to claim the long party as antonosika?
asciilifeform: consider posting in other languages.
mircea_popescu: "i am taking this from you because you're too stupid to have it". and they knew this is true, and SIGHED THEIR RELIEF.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do me a favour, read http://trilema.com/2011/de-pe-cind-eram-io-mai-tinar/ then we can continue this conversation
asciilifeform: iirc that was the biggest
asciilifeform: ^ aha, them too
asciilifeform: (yes, moar complicated, and could - and has - fill a bookcase. but this is the 1line version in my head)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, i know fdr and co.'s explanation of why they 'had to' confiscate
mircea_popescu: that's the thing. technology is intellectually sterile.
mircea_popescu: so much so they all had to bury it.
mircea_popescu: i recall the roman REPUBLIC prohibiting gold
asciilifeform: which was really just 'fdr gets to do whatever the fuck he wants'
asciilifeform: so did the wickard v filburn
mircea_popescu: for the record, it's not even clear moving from bearer to certified insturment is anti-liberty. for insmtance - hansa used the certifierd instrument greatly, because as a merchant, giving your son a plain "pay the bearer so much silver upon presentation of this note in such town" was merely an invitation to any highwayman on route to "please fuck this young man in the ass and here's the pay for your trouble"
asciilifeform: though now i'm hard-pressed to see how fdr's confiscation of gold is illegitimate under the framework outlined in this thread
asciilifeform: but don't be caught with one on the street, yes.
asciilifeform: aha. i think every kid in usa knows of the $1000 bill, for instance.
mircea_popescu: technically money, in its circulatory form (ie, currency - to distinguish from the money as unit of account, for instance) was coins and bank-notes. coins are now disused, for entirely practical reasons ; and bank-notes come in those two flavours. moving from one to the other isn't THAT big a leap.
asciilifeform: (and this happens to be one of the reasons why many folks barf at bitcoin...)
asciilifeform: sorta like if a pauper finds a ring of keys - he doesn't get to own the house and car.
asciilifeform: it makes the subject click in my head.
mircea_popescu: "pretty miss dutchess found by peasants - they didn't get to keep her"
asciilifeform: the explanation involving cheques/promissory notes was pretty neat
mircea_popescu: which is quite contradictory with all the soaps the peasant women watch, which all reduce to
mircea_popescu: well the entire contention was the strange notion that peasant who "finds" vermeer and "has always had it in family" should get to keep it.
mircea_popescu: debate that teh peoples involved have little juice left in the ballsac.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there's any
asciilifeform doesn't object to elites per se (sorta like objecting to gravity) or to hereditary wealth (also rather like objecting to gravity) but arguing for the degeneracy of a particular set of people
mircea_popescu: sure, and exact same could be argued (and has been argued, by people arguing from your same chari) about trhe evil capitalists which "do not even see the common people they vampirize"
asciilifeform: afaik they don't see us at all.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu's intel tells him that the power rangers see us as locust plague, i'll believe him; but from my chair i cannot see this.
mircea_popescu: the class at issue is the class which includes that "they" and that other "they" and also "us".
mircea_popescu: you don't get to pick the class.
asciilifeform: but proposed a hypothesis about whole class here
mircea_popescu: special pleading is a category of pleading, which is a category of speech, which happens in the forum, where the speaker proposes that one member of a category be different from the others on no grounds.
asciilifeform: so 'social media' is a a handcrafted monster of very real elites, rather than a plague of locusts that came out of nowhere
asciilifeform: let's try example? the american universities who pioneered socialist claptrap. did they get cut off from endowments by american industrialists for doing so? 1900s
mircea_popescu: so. b-a is the irc channel where vampires of mankind gather, to discuss how to lower into pederasty the teenaged daughters of hard working social media wokers.
asciilifeform: and they do indeed peddle false inclusivity at every turn.
asciilifeform: (who said they couldn't have a wot?)
asciilifeform: naturally their wot is at work
asciilifeform: not quite best analogy - theoretically a plebe may drill for oil (if the local rulers permit it)
mircea_popescu: it used to be a regular occurence in the usa that some cowboy owned some land, got it taken off his hands, buyer became oil baron
mircea_popescu: nobody forces him to go through the "taken off" step.
asciilifeform: it is a regular occurrence in usa that some schmuck find $canvas at an estate sale, then cleans it, it gets taken off his hands for a few hundy, and then a blueblood naturally converts it to 40m by getting it WoTed.
mircea_popescu: in fact that's what the word even means.
mircea_popescu: i don't know that ever in the history of civilisation was fine art a bearer document.
asciilifeform: one where the lie is publicly told that 'if you have a picasso, it is yours, and you're worth 40m'
asciilifeform: in both cases there is a kind of sham going on
asciilifeform: and the vermeer was intended as a wall decoration ?
asciilifeform: 'in the family' 'stow it'
asciilifeform: so from the wot pov, it is not an atrocity that if usg enforcers find me with a metric tonne of benjie bills in bags, they will take'em ?
mircea_popescu: one of my dearest teachers in college, at the time a respected doctor, retired
phf: "You? Impossible! A mason?" "A mason," I replied. "A sign," he said, "a sign." "It is this," I answered, producing from beneath the folds of my roquelaire a trowel.
asciilifeform: i'm not sure how an algo that requires me to get reborn as another person can be described as 'trivial'.
asciilifeform: hanbot: are you in their wot ?
assbot: Part 2: Looking at the art world over Adrian Ghenie’s shoulder and why I hate it or love it. Not sure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1WLEk84 )
mircea_popescu: http://www.jeg.ro/part-2-looking-at-the-art-world-over-adrian-ghenie-s-shoulder-and-why-i-hate-it-or-love-it-not-sure/ < kid in question
mircea_popescu: the test still is "who among you has a wot account"!
hanbot: <asciilifeform> it is the man who is tested. << http://trilema.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/#comment-90231
mircea_popescu: you'll notice however that the debasement is very well controlled in the same manner fed controlls the dollar.
asciilifeform: my other, separate statement was 'godspeed to anyone successfully faking and debasing their inflationhedgemachines'
mircea_popescu: yes, people will consider you're abject, after this claim. but the claim was disposed not on the grounds of who you are, but on the grounds of what proof was had.
mircea_popescu: she did, with others ?
mircea_popescu: against the nonsensical vacuum of anyone ever having seen this ?
mircea_popescu: if you claim that "hilary clinton is my wife" on the grounds of "she was always in my family" should your claim stand ?
asciilifeform: with their idiot rituals
mircea_popescu: so then what do you protest ?!
mircea_popescu: the WOT is tested.
mircea_popescu: it is wrong to say "the man is tested
mircea_popescu: not anymore than there's a way for him to own plutonium.
asciilifeform: it is the man who is tested.
mircea_popescu: there isn't a way for peasant to OWN picasso
mircea_popescu: so then what are you saying ?
asciilifeform: not saying that somehow there ~ought~ to be a way for the peasant to cash his picasso in
asciilifeform: except that the two situations are dissimilar
asciilifeform: to the inquisitor - naturally nothing
mircea_popescu: we reject these here on a daily basis!
mircea_popescu: let me show you "in the family".
mircea_popescu: now suppose i "own" the same, "in the family", but my family is a bunch of poor peasants from honduras.
mircea_popescu: except this "through family" claim is documented through five different testations, and it so happens that my uncle was a picasso expert who wrote extensively of this picasso work his brother owned.
mircea_popescu: suppose i have a work picasso himself signed with the title "stanislav's teapot shaped head"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you understand what i mean by "in the wot" in that context ?
asciilifeform: phf: yes, in the logs; a german fella
mircea_popescu: but there is no liberty outside.
mircea_popescu: understand : we have the liberty to decide tomorrow that gavin was right. or that bitcoin is stupid. or that whatever else. all this because liberty AT ALL.
asciilifeform: what does their refusal to do so make'em ?
asciilifeform: at any rate, what, the rembrandt owners couldn't sell the crap off (to usg, even. it's buying), buy btc, and send to isis?
phf: (was it in the logs, guy brings authentic X "passed through family", gets accused of stealing, because "you're poor, so can't possibly have X")
mircea_popescu: and the german uprisings during calvin before that. and so on.
mircea_popescu: and the napoleonic wars before that.
mircea_popescu: they are punishing me, see, like they punished the gold standard. in their own heads.
asciilifeform: these folks - own rembrandts.
mircea_popescu: exactly like they go "oh, why should i read trilema if trilema says i'm broken"
asciilifeform: somebody took'em off the leash.
mircea_popescu: who went by the "why should something be a standard if what it says is, we don't get any and stfu"
mircea_popescu: gold standard was cancelled by the mass of idiots.
mircea_popescu: these people don't have a forum.