asciilifeform: meanwhile, in argentine lulz : asciilifeform notices rubber leg from lappy loose on desk. thinks 'could've sworn i glued this one last mo'. grabs tube of cyanoacrylate, same as with which. then notices 'industria argentina' on tube, turns out it's the 1 bought in BingoBoingostan! i had nfi it was physically possible to fuck up even ~this~...
asciilifeform: it's imho small step from the current state of art ,
asciilifeform: e.g. at some pt they will hit on the idea of retro-reassigning publication credits to a properly orthodox http://trilema.com/2013/fried-chicken/ when a prof is defrocked, say.
asciilifeform: when patient dun seem to even blink from cone insertion , the natural response is to give him bigger cone. i fully expect the process will continue in this vein
asciilifeform: seems like 'respectable academics'(tm)(r) will put up with just about any diameter of spiked anal road cone tho, considering that they put up with 'pay elsevier page fees and in exchange they own 100% rights to errything you printed' etc
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 23:23 mircea_popescu: and no, oif course he doesn't "own rights". that's both why you're supposed to make y0our own blog, rather than rely on some usg.scammer platform (be it called "facebook" or "mit", it makes exactly no difference, all the products of socialism are the same product).
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904623 << on paper same in all of reich academitardia; but mit is specifically famous for enforcing the 'you dun own yer face' thing. it's how the bolix story came to be, for instance.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904605 << see also oblig. : >> http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 20:32 chonkin: Yeah well the methods were adopted by every economist after him. We still read articles about how "rent prices are driven up by the presnce of large tech companies" and we watch CNBC and BLoomberg on our flat TVs and they speak at length of the "unemployment rate"
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 23:06 chonkin: In the same 'venue' where I was called "shithead" and placed on "permanent ignore" I also tried to describe the use of eugenics as a method of healing disease
mircea_popescu: and no, oif course he doesn't "own rights". that's both why you're supposed to make y0our own blog, rather than rely on some usg.scammer platform (be it called "facebook" or "mit", it makes exactly no difference, all the products of socialism are the same product).
mircea_popescu: chonkin, the part that you're missing here is that "universities" are no longer doing anything. consequently, they no longer matters. this comes way before any "severed ties".
chonkin: In the same 'venue' where I was called "shithead" and placed on "permanent ignore" I also tried to describe the use of eugenics as a method of healing disease
chonkin: Well -- the universities got a ahold of this idea. And now a single flub-up by a highly respected and beloved professor was sufficent grounds fo immediate termination
chonkin: After being instantly fired for sending a naughty email, there was a debacle about whether he owned the rights to his own videos shot during his lectures
chonkin: mircea_popescu Well the cultural marxism (Whatever that is) sneaked into MIT when that one physics professor was instantly fired for sending something to a female student over email
mircea_popescu: so -- if you don't like the strange rules the old women at the canasta club came up with, one very obvious, wide and practical avenue would be to... find something more age, gender, circumstance and mental-nonimpaired appropriate to do with your evenings.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, i don't know anyone who seriously believes "universities" are either important, noteworthy, or influential. for ~same money could discuss "canasta clubs" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it'd be my considered opinion that humanities, as sadly represented by say that wykeham moron nevertheless are doing way the fuyck better than sciences. a 17% vs 2% sorta comparison.
chonkin: "Cuck, current contraction of older cuckold, is a male that deems what women have to say intrinsically importantvi. The term for a male that wants the women he owns fucked by others is pimp, and yes it's a kinkvii, entirely unrelated to economic exchangeviii. "
BingoBoingo: There were also all sorts of places on the campuses I wasn't "allowed" to piss, where I did indeed piss after spirited drinking.
chonkin: These university 'cultural rules' are taken completely seriously and you can be fired , demoted, puniushed. expelled
chonkin: they also have these things called "micro-aggressions" where you are not allowed to ask an obviously forign professor with a thick accent where he "Came from"
chonkin: Universities don't operate by the rules of the outside world. They take affirmative action seriously and totally implement quotas
chonkin: There was push-back and drama regarding this issue of "affirmative action" in the workplace. And the Fox-newsy crowed bemoaned a kind of reverse racial profiling against white males
BingoBoingo: That they use a weird label doesn't mean the stupidity ratchet isn't being turned where it can be turned http://trilema.com/2018/the-stupidity-ratchet/
chonkin: Yeah Ive heard this "cultural marxism is invading the universities". But _whatever that means_ to those spouting it, it is only happening on the humanities side of campus
BingoBoingo: Anyways, cultural marxism is a thing where some group tries to apply hegel's dialectic but uses the more popular Marx brand
BingoBoingo: Peterson also tells kids to clean their rooms and eat nothing but beef. Weirdos do weird shit
chonkin: So Peterson is running around saying Marxism is a form of egalitarianism. And then saying that this stuff about non-binary genders with strange pronounds is "marxist feminism"
trinque: these are people who have reign within which to define someone?
trinque: what is it that lives behind the symbol "marx" in your head that you'd like to bring forward?
chonkin: Master Jedi Reagan drove his staff and parted the waters.
mircea_popescu: the future view on ww2
chonkin: Well, ya know Ronald Reagon rode to Berlin on a unicorn and knocked the Wall of Stalin down with a lightsaber,. (..or something like that)
mircea_popescu: hence both http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-20#1903638 and http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ or http://trilema.com/2013/the-endless-story-of-korea/
BingoBoingo: Most Americans in the 1950's live high on the hog because the rest of the Industrial world was bombed to shit in the 1940's
chonkin: Even to this day, when they place Stalin's coat near house plants they wilt and die in a week.
chonkin: Or you could do what most americans did in the 1950s -- which is to just run around saying Stalin picked up the Dark Side of the Force by reading Marx -- mystical books which "infused him with evil powers"
mircea_popescu: moreover, "the judiciary" doesn't exist and doesn't figure as a matter of course ; with the exception of a particularly tenous attempt at empire building by the anglos, coupla centuries ago, "the judiciary" is ~same as "the bugaboo"
BingoBoingo: Pepe Mujica went to prison for being a theiving terrorist, not for being a leftist
mircea_popescu: well, no, judiciary was entirely inconsequential. this is just you know, "liberal democracy" wank. the judiciary neither existed nor figured in either russian politicas or russian discourse. it was an army matter.
chonkin: You take over the judiciary and then weaponize it against your political enemies. Then you use it to protect your buddies in crime. I think jefferson called these 'mock trials' in the DOI
mircea_popescu: turned the item from state a, "a thin sliver of french-wankists atop a million village-sized ancestral communisms" into state b, "a thin sliver of rarara nation-of-soviet bureaucrats atop a unified communism 30mn strong"
chonkin: (To be more serious about this) Stalin didn't do anything really original if you look at how monarchs and other petty princes operated since Rome
mircea_popescu: it's unclear to me there was much strenght in imperial russia. seems more like a collection of rural mini-socialism ("mirvniki", w/e) which stalin integrated. kinda how this works, dropplets of the same thing join up.
mircea_popescu: the two aren't in any sense distinct anyway.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, the belief that "stalin learned dark arts from writing" is specifically why i mentioned roosh in the list earlier -- it's exactly like "ima learn how to get laid from writings", pure and simple http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904458 nonsense.
chonkin: I mean, before Lenin, the Russians were highly lliterate, they all owned their own land and drove their kids to soccer practice in minivans.
mircea_popescu: fiction is fiction, what's the problem with that. especially if it's entertaining.
chonkin: From this he gained incredible power to take over Russia and throw the countryside into darkness and misery
mircea_popescu: i mean, at some point there was this widespread belief that an island of warrior women exists somewhere.
chonkin: Stalin was trained in the dark arts of writings of Brother Karl Marx , in particular his principle opus, The Incantation of Lord Communis
BingoBoingo: I wouldn't either. It's just a destructive fad.
mircea_popescu: nor are they properly called names, really. the plebs don't get names per se, rather the ~names~ get plebs associated now and again.
mircea_popescu: and otherwise, what i'm saying that "the german economist karl marx" is not different from "the methodist minister john heyl vincent" or "the public woman simone farrow" or whatever. i guess if you're related you're interested in the epitaph, but otherwise the cemeteries are full of "names". these names do not bear any consequence, nor do they last all that long.
chonkin: Oh sorry. I happen to consider "Marxism" to be the writings of the german economist Karl Marx. I understand recent history has blurred this considerably.
mircea_popescu: "Wildly influential pop celebrity with absolutely no intelligence. This is usually from the perspective of the parents of kids who listen to / emulate the tard in question."
BingoBoingo: I meant in the sense of someone slowed and crippled by excess communion with popular things
BingoBoingo: ty hanbot. I don't recall finding that one in the wild. May actually be new coinage.
BingoBoingo: Anyways chonkin, cutting out poptard noise is one of the biggest drivers here http://trilema.com/2016/ideological-history-of-the-republic/
chonkin: Alex Trebek: This German economist was the frist to utilize the unemployment rate. {Jeopardy music plays}
BingoBoingo: Getting up to speed with what us reasonable people do generally takes several months of reading. What we do is carve out space for us hygeinic reasonable people to live without suffering the unwashed poptards. http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/
mircea_popescu: anyway, as far as anyone currently knows, that is real. there's a lot of work undergoing to establish just how real it actually is tho.
chonkin: Yeah well the methods were adopted by every economist after him. We still read articles about how "rent prices are driven up by the presnce of large tech companies" and we watch CNBC and BLoomberg on our flat TVs and they speak at length of the "unemployment rate"
mircea_popescu: chonkin, most of that's your own read-in. i simply pointed out "marx" isn't somebody. you wanna carry a discussion with someone, you're stuck using mutual ground. you're more than welcome to think what you will, but to me marx is indistinguishable from any other blog spammer, for reasons explained. you're more than welcome to engage those or not, but that's about how far it goes.
BingoBoingo: I'm moving that to the table. Most folks here work on projects carving out fiefs in out brave new world. "What is your trade?" was intented to fish out what sort of things you do.
chonkin: My perspective is that we are concentraing on the role of police in society, which Marx had a very cynical take on identical to some postings here. I wasn't placing his bust on a pedestal or defending the body of his works
BingoBoingo: 2013-2015 they did, but now a lot of cajeras looking for a new home
BingoBoingo: Most of the Venezolanas immigrating to down here this year don't have thick resumes
chonkin: Well I have all the paperwork in order.
BingoBoingo: chonkin: What part of the world do you call home?
BingoBoingo: And that means filing Marx away to the "noise" namespace
chonkin: So if your ideas overlap with Karl Marx, you say "ON this particular point we agree about police and their use in modern society." Leave it at that.
chonkin: So I have no idea what all the public key register stuff was for
asciilifeform meanwhile finished massive rewrite of ch18 mechanisms, nao goes to rewrite the text..
BingoBoingo: "I am one such, if any others do indeed exist, because ~that is what I am~. Your existence, such as you perceive it, is a minimal side effect of the foregoing, nothing more than that. In the strictest of senses : your perception of your own existence is merely the shimmering, distant reflection of a coupling between the world and me, that is in itself self-sufficient and has entirely no need of you."
mircea_popescu: nope ;/ still not the one i had in mind god damn it all to hell, im turning senile over here.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, nah. it was quite literal, i just don't recall the nouns so my search dun work
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, do you happen to recall which the hell trilema article is it where i say that the illusion of existence or identity randos cherish is merely the reflection of my interaction with the world, an interaction to which they're neither party nor necessary ?
BingoBoingo: Back when the US read, "Hegelian" groups sprouted up in US cities advocating a bunch of stuff that now gets labeled Marxist, because the Spam was targeted to their level
mircea_popescu: it doesn't work for "RodneyOnern" earlier today and it didn't work for "Karl Marx" earlier this century. the irrelevant circumstance that some blogs publish spam and some morons became michael jackson fans or roosh v or karl marx or dale carnegie fans/true believers/whatever is exactly as the word says : irrelevant.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the ideological progenitors of Marxism are the Britshits in parliament setting the stage for Marx's spam attacks to work. Marx himself pretty much a non-entity beyond folks finding the spread of his spam reason to use his name as a label.
mircea_popescu: i suppose in a sense marx is the original, one-man "social media platform" slash spammer attack on the conversation. ie, "here's some bits of text i culled from the net, and here's some links, publish my comment".
BingoBoingo: The world working a certain way and Marx mentioning those workings doesn't make talking about those workings Marxist
BingoBoingo: guy's tools to tear down the functional world on the idea all bipeds are people while he failed to feed his children.
BingoBoingo: <chonkin> mircea_popescu Are you nudge-winking me that "every single sentence Marx put to paper was metphysically incorrect, so don't dare compare me to him in his wrong-ity"??? << You have to look at what the man was saying. Marx is a rather late fellow, 19th century. The world worked long before Marx. Marx cribbed a guy http://bingology.net/2016/01/24/the-theoretical-foundation-of-social-engineering-practice/ and tried to use the
mircea_popescu: i dunno i have to "deal" with it, beyond not giving a shit. again, some derp mouthing something or the other creates no point of interest.
chonkin: mircea_popescu YOU will have to deal with teh fact that Marx's ideas very much overlap yours. This is not *my* problem. It is yours. You deal with the obvious overlap in whatever emotional way you ened ot in order to sleep and night and get by.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, the dispute isn't whether "marx blathered in this vein". you know who bowdler was ?
chonkin: mircea these assertions are like marxism 101. (but I'm getting this bot all set up and I will get back to you in a few)
mircea_popescu: and a republic never was, nor ever could or will be anything else than a lordship. such as this one, such as the earlier venetian attempt a millenium ago, such as all others.
mircea_popescu: both antique and modern versions there covered.
mircea_popescu: "democracy" is, well, rank nonsense. here, have some items : http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/ ; http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/
chonkin: Im' GPG-keying with this bot right now.. and I will dig up the citations when I get around to it in a few minutes. So hold tight
chonkin: And there are actual pages of his writing where he says this
chonkin: Karl Marx goes -- hol 'up --- the feudal class hiearchy persists in capitalism with armed thugs protecting the landlord's cache of capital. e.g. "the police"
chonkin: mircea_popescu The idea was that democracy and republicanism replaced the monarchies and rigid class of the fuedal period.
mircea_popescu: you understand this, the peons ~can not be said to substantially eixst~! they aren't fucking here in any sense.
mircea_popescu: well what the hell else can it meaningfully be.
chonkin: But this is more like serve the muscled landlords and protect the muscled landlord's property.
BingoBoingo: US police pointedly do not protect "property" in the general sense. Ambitious College bound urban youth steals your bike. What follows is police steal the bike from the stealing kid, then sell your bike at auction.
mircea_popescu: much like a restaurant's "waiters" are the remnant of what used to be the lords' servants following them around, only mutualized, so is the police.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, that "the police" is the name for this historical institution consisting of the muscle lords pooled together is the plainest reality.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> chonkin, this seems to me sheer animism. for the same money there's shared ethos in all furniture, "because of the wood". if you must, as a literary exercise, why not. << Powder post beetles are a thing
chonkin: "I put my livecs on the line for" "I sacrafice for" etc
mircea_popescu: chonkin, this seems to me sheer animism. for the same money there's shared ethos in all furniture, "because of the wood". if you must, as a literary exercise, why not.
chonkin: Not "thugs who protect propery of the bourgeoisie" but "Hero protectors"
mircea_popescu: this and that are the same thing : groups of cows go moo! moo!
mircea_popescu: according to the "deeply held ethical notions" of south koreans currently living, sleeping with a fan on will lead to suffocation through the fan's "consuming of the oxygen".
chonkin: mircea_popescu Could you admit to some shared cultural ethos that elevates the Policeman Superhero to a person who reaches beyond themselves ina "call of duty" to "put their lives on the line" for the protection fo such-and-such
mircea_popescu: in a large enough collection of cows, be they bipedal or otherwise, there will occasionally be perceived synchronized mooing
chonkin: The law does not coincide with their deeply-held ethical framework here. (Cant think of a better word)
mircea_popescu: there's no ethics involved.
mircea_popescu: for the same money you're going to take ballots from "the collective stars" at night. what collective ?
mircea_popescu: i dispute there ever can be such a thing as a meaningful "collective" declared after the fact.
chonkin: mircea_popescu The outcry from the public over the sherrif's hiding in their cars while a school was shot up indicates that there is, at the least, a wound to people's collective conscience.
mircea_popescu: because i don't, to me it's all the same vaudeville.
mircea_popescu: you see some substantial difference between marx and any of the chautauqua retards, for instance ?
mircea_popescu: well, the reason'd be that i think it's inconsequential nonsense. marx, ziggler, joseph smith, whatever ustarded self-help authors are broadly speaking irrelevant in any conversation.
mircea_popescu: the fact that the police exists to protect the powerful from the maraudingly idiotic is unrelated to marxism, and well predates it.
mircea_popescu: but this is like saying the color red has "some coca cola in it", because "coca cola uses red as part of its xmas nonsense". so ?
chonkin: Marxism suggests the police exist to protect property, not people
chonkin: But yeh, there is a little flavoring of Marx in the idea that police exist to corall and control the underclass. Flavorings that sort of rise ot teh top of the bowl and stick to the outer edges
mircea_popescu: the plebs are, always were, and forever will be, entirely incidental.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-10 19:28 asciilifeform: remember, this was the country where a man got 20 yrs for being found with a shoelace and a semiauto
asciilifeform: otoh if someone tips off police that you have a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-10#1654285 in yer closet, there'll be two dozen squad cars in 10 minutes.
chonkin: They did.
chonkin: Yes , they can.
chonkin: They can sit in their cars playing sudoku while a kid turns a high school into swiss cheese with his AR-15
asciilifeform: chonkin: both on paper and with naked eye, the 'what is police for' q is not any kind of puzzler. it is obv. other than to the willfully blind.
chonkin: NOt on paper they aren't.
chonkin: The counter argument to this cynical indictment of modern socity that police are there to "keep the proletariat in check" is to say, "No! Police are brave proud protectors of the public who put their lives on the line to blah blah blah and serve and protect and be Superman and Marvel Superheroes against the forces of evil and crime!"
asciilifeform: problem exists strictly for folx who didn't get the memo, aha
mircea_popescu: im not sure what the problem is. the police is organised by the king, and yes, its function is the maintenance of the kingdom in order from the king's pov.
chonkin: Now take that conclusion and put it in a bowl and mix with a beater until a fine foam is formed ---> [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
asciilifeform: chonkin: police have 0 to do with specific plebe and his problems with specific thief or axe maniac etc. they are there to uphold the regime. somehow this is clear to people in ru, zimbabwe, etc. but ameritards have various elaborate illusions on the subj.
nicoleci: in other lolz-- * Looking up chaostal.hackint.org * Connecting to chaostal.hackint.org (217.69.77.134) port 6667... * *** Notice -- You need to use SSL/TLS to use this server
asciilifeform: from horse's mouth, 'the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists'
mircea_popescu: well, yes. the matter still stands, police aren't held to specifically do anything. there's a lengthy string of cases going way past the 70s.
chonkin: Lawyers explain in their special language that the police ON DUTY POLICE OFFICERS WITH BADGES AND GUNS are under "no legal obligation to protect anyone from harm even when they are aware it is happening"
chonkin: People cried foul in anger and betrayal. They wanted the cowardly sherrif deputies to be "Charged with somehting" "Derilecion of duty." "Suspend and de-badge!" et cetera
a111: Logged on 2019-03-24 18:48 BingoBoingo lives in a city where motorcycle marines patrol the riverwalk
mircea_popescu: chonkin, why don't you use the proper format for logline referencing, like http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904339 ?
chonkin: so vis-a-vis : [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
BingoBoingo lives in a city where motorcycle marines patrol the riverwalk
mircea_popescu: chonkin, point still remains, security guards aren't there to get involved in shootouts.
chonkin: People wanted to the cowardly cop hiding in teh parking lot to be *charged with something* Derliction of duty. Something.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Your b was the Las Vegas one
mircea_popescu: so yeah. hiding in car is actually the official policy ; and for good reason at that.
mircea_popescu: well, a) mall cops aren't cops, they're security guards and b) the hotel security guard who pestered that guy in florida pretty much generated the shooting.
chonkin: The first reaction was "What a coward! How could he!" et cetera. After the emotional fire subsided to embers it was "Didn't that cop have an obligation to go in there and engage in teh shooter?" then it was ---
chonkin: Have you heard about the key court cases where it was legally shown that cops are under no legal obligation to the protect anyone from harm?
chonkin: [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
BingoBoingo: <chonkin> They could have just rolled in with atank and wasted the kid with a .50 cal << Bad optics. Gotta act startled when you shoot or you become just another inmate instead of a guard with vacation time.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-26 20:43 asciilifeform: one to break doors, gates; one to threaten bystanders, if any, with 'accidental' fire; one to shoot; and perhaps one with a cage that arrestee -might- be permitted to surrender into, if the bot's voice-recognition system works and if orders included a possible live capture
chonkin: they were like aiming for the kid with their pistols as their arms are like coming out of the windows
chonkin: The 12 year old black boy with the plastic gun in teh park. Those cops vehicle had not come to afull stop, and they had flun open the doors and where opening fire before their bodies had even really gotten out of the door
chonkin: The man in wal-mart was standing in a composed and lazy body position, pointing an airgun at the floor in the catfood isle. Talking on a callphone. And they jsut closed distance and murdered him cold.
BingoBoingo: Or they could have though "If I talk he's going to talk back and that's work. If I shoot I get two weeks of paid leave"
chonkin: No "you are surrouned". No "hands up this is the police" None of that. Target was identified and *eliminated*. Dispatched.
chonkin: I made some facebook memes about both incidences. They cops basically said "This is bravo 6 to HQ. We have identified the hostile target in our AOR." "Roger that, bravo 6. You are cleared to engage." "Roger." RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT . " He's down! Target is down! Cease fire!"
chonkin: IN neither video was any attempt made to converse or 'engange with' the person. They just closed distance like soldier and opened fire
chonkin: White* police officers closed distance on the "scary black man with the gun" and murdered him
chonkin: A man was standing in a wal-mart holding an air gun he had grabbed from the shelf. He was standing in the cat food isle with said airgun pointed at the floor, and talking on a cellphone.
chonkin: There was a 12 year old black boy playing with a plastic gun in a park. There was a light dusting of snow on the ground
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
chonkin: BingoBoingo The "narrative" outside this chat room.. a mere mile outside it -- is that blacks do not commit more crime... rather they are "arrested more by racist cops"
mircea_popescu: yeah he has a point. chonkin get yourself a pgp key, a blog, the works. gotta do things right yes.
BingoBoingo: chonkin: Well, that's why we're here and not those other places.
chonkin: OUtside this chatroom, you can't even state the possibility that urban black youth commit more crime than their white counterparts.
mircea_popescu: "'Zounds, sir, you are one of those that will not serve God, if the devil bid you. Because we come to do you service and you think we are ruffians, you'll have your daughter covered with a Barbary horse; you'll have your nephews neigh to you; you'll have coursers for cousins and gennets for germans." an' all that.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but the cultural norms were for the old dood's house to not be ransacked for valuables (ie, cunt & gold).
BingoBoingo: Violent crime is what happens when there's no cultural space left for necessary violence.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's not crime. There's cultural norms and practices in Shakespeare's Venice.
mircea_popescu: chonkin, why is violent crime a big deal in the first place ? shakespeare's venice is all about young doods stabbing each other, so what of it.
mircea_popescu: i don't think that failure is either contentious or needs much elaboration. it's obvious enough, the socialist dreams have failed wholesale.
chonkin: The violent crime rates in ultra-homogeneous Japan and Finland should give pause here.
BingoBoingo: chonkin: I suspect it isn't as strong of a regional thing in the US as the media folks push with the red/blue state stuff. Lots of bipeds in the US are literate in exactly the same way 98% of Uruguayos are literate.
chonkin: Sure, there are people in the plain stats and the midwest (ana appalachia) who are poor, white, and uneducated. They "hate blacks" and their racism is simply bigotry and hatred. Yes. This exists.
chonkin: But if you look at what he says in context -- the entire statement --- he is neither senile nor racist
chonkin: mircea_popescu The award winning molecular biologist that discovered the structure of DNA (Francis Crick?) made some statements in public about African populations that got him called a "senile old racist coot"
mircea_popescu: which is kinda what race is, "behold, by the magical powers of my caliper i can meaningfully distinguish haploid groups".
mircea_popescu: chonkin, i used "racist" above to denote any theory that proposes there can be a fenotype-based partition on human population.
chonkin: They just kind of flatly admitted that the stats showed them that these groups were different, and in many cases said that social policy should "reflect" these differences rather than work to undermine and hide them
mircea_popescu: that much is true, eugenics was rather fashionable for most of the pre-ww2 modern period.
chonkin: While they would appear "racist" on modern Cable television, not all of their statements about minority groups were based on some kind of mystical white supremecy, white nationalism, or outright bigoted hatred.
mircea_popescu: what's "compleltely founded" ? a workable notion of number for eg, is early 1900s. most math could be said to only have a fundamental existence in the past century.
chonkin: 2. The principle developers of statistics were often part of eugenics groups.
mircea_popescu: speaking of virtue signalling : http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/
mircea_popescu: sounds like a run of the mill libertard venue.
BingoBoingo: Well, here you can draw conclusions and present them for some back and forth usually leaning to refinement. Occasionally enlightenment.
chonkin: mircea_popescu Well -- I didn't even draw any conclusions. And because I did not virtue signal and chatter and state the colonizing oppression theory, I was called "shithead" and put on permanent ignore.
mircea_popescu: i'm pretty sure "white colonizing oppression" is rank nonsense, on the level of "buddha".
chonkin: If prison incarceration rates "scale" with levels of white colonizing oppression, then Aboriginal incarceration rates should be low and African American I-r should be skyrocket high. THe opposite is true in relaity
mircea_popescu: chonkin, as a factual matter, it's unlikely any live human being had a majority of ancestors who were not slaves at some point in their life. now, most of this is undocumented, but slavery is about as fundamental as eating.
chonkin: Certain theories make predictions and this is a matter of whether those predictions match what is measured or do not match them.
mircea_popescu: you can see this fundamental behaviour among children. nothing is easier than for a group of pubescent boys/girls to agree "girls/boys are retarded / not worth bothering with". then one with nice tits, or a fellatio inclination, or whatever, an impressive hairdo or a skateboard shows up, and suddenly there's an exception. before you know it, within the decade everyone's married and their pubescent kids agree on the agreeme
mircea_popescu: ie, racist arguments do not generally fail at the core, they generally fail at the skirts. you can always get broad agreement on "oh, blacks are tards". that never was problematic, it's a fundamental portion of human behaviour. the problems begin when you'\re asked to establish the limits / produce a "yes/no" answerer to "is this person black" format questions.
chonkin: mircea_popescu You can justifiably place such statistics alongside the incarceration rates, crime rates, and prison conditions seen in nations that are extraordinarily homogenous
mircea_popescu: but the irish and the italian historical migratory waves were of european descent. at least sorta
chonkin: The united states could be included here, while even thouhg the African American minority there are recent immigrants, the pattern is that they are of "non-europe descent"
mircea_popescu: chonkin, not to mention historical waves of incarceration as seen in the "melting pot" aka ny. first, jails fulla irishmen, locals saying irish is the new black. then their sons moved on to being the cops, jails fulla ets. then their sons moved on to being cops, and so on.
chonkin: With australia having the greatest disparity. Indigenous aboriginals make up P = 7.9% with a staggering incareration rate Ir = 89%
chonkin: The same pattern is seen in Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia
chonkin: Indigenous populations make up a minority percent of the popuulation P < 20% and their incarceration rates fall somewhere between 80% < Ir < 90%
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I did not, now Imma have to find dalnet and hope that is where the Gauchos are hiding
mircea_popescu: since we're doing "what did the girls find sifting" BingoBoingo, didja know there's an #uruguay on dalnet ?
chonkin: This took place on another network. I didn't draw conclusions, I was told "Welcome to permament ignore, shithead"
BingoBoingo: Far too slow, late rather than early
BingoBoingo: The folks outside
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other items of possible interest, http://freedns.afraid.org/domain/registry/
mircea_popescu: can use the http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/top100.php thing for network list, and then of course each network will list its channels for you.
mircea_popescu: speaking of federation and stuff : hey spyked phf ben_vulpes : how much trouble would it be to log every channel in every network over 50 users ? item shouldn't be publicly exposed, but as a fullsearch query (say limited from l1). something like !Xircs "naked sluts" nin?s returning all the lines matching, in a paste encrypted to caller.
billymg: might also be the v you're using, as mircea_popescu suggests. the old patches should press fine too
billymg: hanbot: let me know if trying to press again with the patches from http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ doesn't work and i can look into it
billymg: the post has been updated to be clearer for readers scanning quickly to get the files they want
billymg: this was somewhat my fault as the most recent post on my blog discusses the updates to the two patches but then links to the old versions (yes, they were labeled as old but were also the most prominent links on the page)