gribble: RagnarDanneskjol was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 44 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <RagnarDanneskjol> trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. if anyone here's partial to the name I can pass it over. Wow that xm42
Azelphur: Was really unsure whether to place that one (badmouthing former employer and all) but figured he'll probably look here for someone to replace me, and other people might not be so financially secure as I am.
punkman: https://github.com/nothings/stb/blob/master/docs/other_libs.md "single-file public-domain/open source C libraries with minimal dependencies"
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:53:27; mircea_popescu: maybe 1% of the cost of a block, a day ?
kakobrekla: basically folks have been used as sort of catalyst for the reaction of them getting 16nm or so and are now no longer needed
kakobrekla: they sold until it was garbage, now that further decreasement in process size are hardly possible, they hold
punkman: "KNC are in a similar holding pattern, awaiting production of their 16nm ‘Solar’ chip, with astonishing claims of 0.07 J/Gh, They no longer sell to the public either."
punkman: "Bitfury recently announced their 28nm, 0.2 J/Gh offering (with some impressive efficiencies claimed) but have declined to inform us when they will be available, either-ways they do not sell to the public anymore. They also alluded to a 16nm chip with efficiencies as low as 0.02 due out later this year."
assbot: Thoughts on the current state of Bitcoin mining | Blockchain Stuff ... ( http://bit.ly/1PKP93J )
punkman: once the next price run up begins, there will be a frantic scrabble to re-power all the mothballed rigs lying around."
punkman: "It has been quite a while since any new hardware became available, it is reasonable to assume that most small miners will have recouped the majority of what they initially outlaid for the hardware, and are now disinclined to continue ‘supporting the network’, whilst incurring unnecessary cost. So: MegaBigPowers ‘land-grab’, to acquire all this idle hashing power seems like a smart move. As,
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382541 especially the earlier history, yes. possibly a good place to start: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14118;sa=showPosts;start=6160
mats: for some reason the abrams doesn't have it
mats: the autoloader is cool
assbot: Ukrainian Armor (The Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODX1WS )
mircea_popescu: depends how hard you push the "but why!" pedal.
ben_vulpes: perhaps i'll do that while i install os x on this laptop for the umpteenth time
mircea_popescu: arrived at through a lot of experimental as well as theoretical effort.
mircea_popescu: it's a complex topic but no, they're not fraudulent.
mircea_popescu: there's 3 or 4 principal ways to do it, 2 or 3 of which are very slight variation on the same theme.
mircea_popescu: this is a very neat way to solve an otherwise very thorny economical problem, and it will figure prominently in the future.
mircea_popescu: very simple mechanism to ACTUALLY improve your insurance : make a pool which pays 25.25 btc for the first block it finds each day.
mircea_popescu: of the subsidy of a block*
mircea_popescu: maybe 1% of the cost of a block, a day ?
gribble: (nethash takes no arguments) -- Shows the current estimate for total network hash rate, in Ghps.
ben_vulpes: did anyone ever run the numbers on what it would naively cost to lease the hashpower required to mint a block a day?
thestringpuller: always imagined some d00d with access to nuclear power building a reactor on some island and using all the power for mining
assbot: List of countries by electricity consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODTasQ )
mircea_popescu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption << the esteemed republic is #13, after italy and above most of the world.
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: 21co tried to make energy friendly chips, now they are trying to pawn them on users as "compooter"
mircea_popescu: currently we're only burning something to the tune of 30GW
mircea_popescu: "Hypothetically, according to Robert Engelman (Worldwatch institute), in order to prevent collapse, human civilization would have to stop increasing emissions within a decade regardless of the economy or population (2009)."
ben_vulpes: not then.
mircea_popescu: chips irrespective, be they z80s or whatever startrek
mircea_popescu: nope. stable situation is where nethash is half the power generation.
mircea_popescu: by the time it gets to 50%+1 all these approximations will be a lot less approximative
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the proper measure for nethash actually is PW or somesuch.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: schooled me rather hard on a good example around c3
mircea_popescu: neither is 144.
mircea_popescu: well, yes, if one's tolerant with the variance
mircea_popescu: that there's 6 blocks an hour and 24 hours in 24 hours ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was the calculation you ran to determine the hashpower necessary to nail a block more or less every 24 hours?
mircea_popescu: after all... we have fucking json in there for reasons!
ben_vulpes: yes let's compile libcurl into the reference implementation
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it could always curl deedbot.org for the latest.
ben_vulpes: the log history that you're missing is that blockheight is the only non usg-shared time.
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: good idea except that syncing reference implementations to the best of my knowledge don't know the current blockheight
mircea_popescu: and for the love of christ implement either rolling or else a maxsize for files or something.
mircea_popescu: in any case, then you could start it with -logs=emcb for all 4, or otherwise whatever combo thereof.
mircea_popescu: (speaking of which - de-stupidification of the logging process would be a fucking blessing already. debug.log, srsly ? how about error.log mempool.log connect.log blocks.log for starters ?)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382232 << even the simple step of "add flag to trb to dump mempool into file each time a block is found" would be helpful atm.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382193 << i've yet to meet an electron who thought himself the ceo of the atom in question.
mircea_popescu: 0^61, which is one hell of a coincidence that it should allign so right now! (same results can be expressed looking at the schwarzschild radius, too). )
mircea_popescu: (the problem, in the simplest terms, is that for h to be constant energy and spacetime must stay coupled. as such, it's impossible to have an original singularity (aka the big bang) seeing how everything solves neatly for a radius of 0, yielding a pretty field of 0's and a pile of nondetermined constants. conversely : in planck terms, the age of the universe is about 10^61, its radius about 10^61 and its energy about 1
mircea_popescu: (actually the only sane model of physical cosmogony i know doth require shifting planck constant, if ever so shyly)
asciilifeform: i am picturing, one day measured value of plank's constant shifts, mircea_popescu goes back to sleep, says 'this shift was implicit all along, could not otherwise happen.' and will sleep until the very integers get up and walk around.
asciilifeform: and i suppose the egyptians must have known this
asciilifeform: (the former wrote a whole mega-l0ltron re: same, 'i am a strange loop')
mircea_popescu: contemplation. that's the divide. reflexivity. once the hardware started doing recursion, it split.
mircea_popescu: and then "omfg what have i done" slapping forehead
mircea_popescu: it's a visual joke. imagine me saying "hmm, i wonder how best to do this" whille scratching the top of my head
asciilifeform: so why the german goes bald ... ?
asciilifeform: in a car otherwise full of dour folk making angry eyes
mircea_popescu: or to put it in more familiar terms, you know why the german goes bald arouind the corona, and the romanian arfound the forehead ?
mircea_popescu: anyway. the difference between man and monkey is that man realises it's not actually worth the hassle.
mircea_popescu: lest the academic has to publish to justify his high station, an' the inventor must invent, hence so many new inventions all the time.
mircea_popescu: now, whether a natural tongue or one surgically bifurcated is a change worth the mention... well... i suppose we must leave this up to the inventor.
mircea_popescu: trinque well, an argument can be brought that yours are a lot more cleaved. like, you know, you can separately desire to lay with the woman as in cuddle, to lay with the woman as in fuck her brains out, to lay with the woman as to impregnate her and so on. whereas poor simple he, just lay with the woman.
asciilifeform: the b00kz become associated with thing-that-anchors-you, i suspect
asciilifeform: i suspect that i will go the same
trinque: why is the egyptian man's desire for food, a place to shit, and women to fuck different from mine? and if it isn't, whence this idea that my motivations are manifold (and advanced!), his few?
asciilifeform: my father had a world-class library, left it behind, today cannot stand the idea of amassing any such thing
mircea_popescu: possibly a contributing factor in my distaste with the damned things.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, not long ago had a brain-melting mindfuck, browsed maths crud on 'amazon' rec list, and noticed b00k, 'wait a sec, where did i see the author' - turns out, in email box
mircea_popescu: there's another great difference, which may be easier to ford. socialism - sacrifice now for later paradise. this - is enjoyable. now. so much so i have not the least care if paradise or no paradise, or as the old man of the mountain said to allah,
asciilifeform: wake me up when the he-men create so much as a 'aa' battery.
mircea_popescu: but no. your thesis is that "can only result in" goatfuckistan.
asciilifeform: thesis is that 'the spartan speaks with his sword', untempered, results in goatfuckistan.
mircea_popescu: but that's not your thesis.
mircea_popescu: and from a number of other things.
asciilifeform: and the sheer mega-virility of pashtun can be likewise measured in 1,001 ways.
trinque: mircea_popescu │ eventually, if nothing was cut off, duck in the yard can no longer resist the call of ducks in the sky and takes off. << I'm going to go ahead and carve this one into the inside of my skull.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:09:02; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381724 << if anyone in afghanistan etc were not fully employed in countig rocks and fucking goats thus managing to find their way here, i'd definitely finance a project to fly a quad to a drone and use the old komet trick
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:40:38; mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.
mircea_popescu: eventually, if nothing was cut off, duck in the yard can no longer resist the call of ducks in the sky and takes off.
mircea_popescu: but this is not unlike retarded mother bringing boy up in skirts.
mircea_popescu: now, it's true that miseducation can bring one up to think himself the other kind, whichg CAN be remedied.
mircea_popescu: it isn't up to them. some people dont' care. some do. they can't change this anymore than you can be a woman.
mircea_popescu: your earlier mistake was to suppose it's UP TO THEM.
asciilifeform: i suppose if asteroid cleaned everybody's clock but the hydrothermal vent microbes, mircea_popescu would (from his dirigible!) still say, 'nothing novel, planet still crawling with whatevers, snore'
mircea_popescu: the only news in the world is the history you didn't know and the measurements you took incorrectly.
asciilifeform: 'the 80th latin' or what was it
mircea_popescu: you ever read that thing on the latin language ?
asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu blasting off to mothership, tells chums 'this planet is a mega-snore, nothing ~ever~ changes there, let's get outtahere'
trinque notes the former SU guy's fixation on novelty
mircea_popescu: there's exactly nothing to change. what'd you change ?
trinque: it's simply staring at the tool and thinking of it in isolation, rather than inside the human process in which it is used
mircea_popescu: do you miss the things that'll be discovered after you die, perhaps ? nobody cares. you happen to have seen telegraph. they saw the complex calculation of how to pi, and counted them very civilised for it. big whoop.
asciilifeform: i know full well that mircea_popescu can arbitrarily redefine 'a thing' for there to be none.
trinque: they used to have feet. so what?
mircea_popescu: who cares, it's the same ass.
asciilifeform: but meanwhile somebody wiped arse with the papyrus.
mircea_popescu: "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind, to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them ?"
mircea_popescu: besides, the discussion in civilisational terms is besides the point. i guarantee that there was an alf in upper egypt bemoaning the vagaries of fate in the following exact terms :
mircea_popescu: their shit keeps better than your shit does.
mircea_popescu: you flatter yourself if you imagine there's more difference here than there, to an archeologist so distant in the future.
asciilifeform: perhaps a better example would've been the 10,000 yrs of australian abo.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the egypt point is in re: the fact that the 3000th yr was quite like the 4000th and entirely possibly indistinguishable even to pro archaeologist
mod6: danielpbarron: thx for the heads up
mircea_popescu: (if for instance your aim is "population", mind that they started on a very narrow base. hard to beat.)
asciilifeform: wake me up from my grave when, e.g., the gunpowder fashion, dies down.
mircea_popescu: fortunately or otherwise, few live the millenia required for most of it to wear off.
asciilifeform: otherwise, yes, 5000 yrs of egypt.
mircea_popescu: history is precisely an endless loop of the same thing. also, it has to be.
mircea_popescu: anyway - the exact same sort of people sifted to the top in the su as do anywhere else all the time. which is why yeltsin didn't survive and putin did.
mircea_popescu: right. but generally fambly kept the place, for mere conviction. it had to be political-wrathful to dislodge.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prison term didn't dislodge. people came back to their own flats.
asciilifeform: for the privatizatory to carve up
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:41:20; mircea_popescu: this is the cornerstone of any possible sociology.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382257 << this'd be rather like a pirate proposing that piracy is the only possible structure. if it were, what would there be for him to plunder ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: this is the cornerstone of any possible sociology.
mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.
mircea_popescu: then they'll rant and rave about "dupa ce i-a cheltuit vor merita sa devina muncitori ! Nu mai au nici o scuza ca au devenit saraci!"
mircea_popescu: two step process : a) make everyone ACTUALLY carry the burden of being the lord he was seeing himself as and b) allow the scum to shirk away.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382120 << there's no other way out of the idiocy of equality.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382106 "and the moon changes ever as his mind!"
mircea_popescu: when plebs "own stock", the problem becomes unsolvable, because the ready answer is, "i can't blame myself, for i'm nothing - so i'll just blame the gods"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382094 << you deeply misunderstand what "investor grade" means in this context. the point is that he is RARE. you understand this ? the fundamental property of capital control in any functioning society without exception possible is that it must be concentrated.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382062 << but it does make a lot of difference. a rising tide lifts all boats, there was no admiral nelson of the mughal empire. certainly not at that date.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:58:10; ben_vulpes: clearly, there's no 'worthy' but 'demands'.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382056 << i have nfi. i think it's a lot of "how does one get a gf". not being worthy, per se. not demanding $randomfemale submit, per se. not that far off, either.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:03:27; asciilifeform: brunel was in the up elevator
asciilifeform: (no, you don't ~have~ to split the patches into patchons, to do this)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: apparently fella wanted to reimplement v in gnumake (as i once considered doing) but made some peculiar design decisions along the way
ben_vulpes: in the meantime, try to understand why we use 'v', and why your failure to do so has lead me to stomp on the ground like a petulant child.
ben_vulpes: anyways, interesting thing, polarbeard, perhaps i shall test it some day along side the tools written by people i trust like mod6 and trinque and asciilifeform.
polarbeard: you didn't read the script
ben_vulpes: but more importantly the patches
ben_vulpes: "i didn't know any better" is, for the record, an entirely acceptable response.
ben_vulpes: and for the umpteenth time polarbeard /why/ split the damn patches and introduce a million new dependencies?
ben_vulpes: i literally do not care and the spending of time figuring out why the derps do what they do is best left as an exercise to good men like mister backtick who actually enjoy hanging out on bitcointalk.org all day
ben_vulpes: the dependency chain of "well i work for satan because i got this useless phd that i got because i had a masters i didn't know what to do with because i got a bachelors that i similarly didn't understand the purpose of because i was told to go to college and" it never fucking ends and i don't really give a shit about the root cause for whatever retardation.
asciilifeform: the islamic world, for instance, never moved beyond this, and it shows
asciilifeform: i can't speak for ben_vulpes, but the idea that folks who what they do for some explicable reason, rather than because of daemonic possession, was - imho - an advance.
ben_vulpes is the undereducated american today as every day
asciilifeform: see the su privatization thread again, if this does not make sense.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: folks who have enough capital to eat the drawn dividends, eat that, and never eat capital. the rest of us, eat whatever falls into the hopper
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 00:33:02; asciilifeform: and to leave plenty over for the common piggy
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381913 << and that's eating the capital of all sins
asciilifeform: wait till polarbeard finds out what ~else~ we intend to implement for the n+1th time
polarbeard: why implementing toposort for the nth time
polarbeard: make is a build tool, it can build the press
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 00:03:11; polarbeard: you need the diff splitter, splitdiff
polarbeard: the script is 300 lines, not hard to review
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:55:19; polarbeard: there is no v
polarbeard: aggresive looks to the keyboard
ben_vulpes: editor of the dirigible
polarbeard: I use the only and true editor
ben_vulpes: the mind, it doth boggle.
asciilifeform: and too lazy to bust the idiot nagware
ben_vulpes: lol over there too?
asciilifeform: sublime dicks, on the other hand, is mega-popular for some reason, colleagues had it and i lullzed seeing the nag popup interrupt their session
ben_vulpes: you can smell the users of fashionable editors a mile away
ben_vulpes: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/90d9a921f084ed4ae942#file-buildgen-L30 << enough with the aligned shits
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and not actually similar, even where exist. american 'sec 8' leprosoria are not in any sense whatsoever owned by the inhabitants
ben_vulpes: we have yet to arrive at state-issued flats for all but the most deeeeeserving of poor.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381723 << which is mind-boggling given the thing has a what turbofan?
asciilifeform: ... ditto the flats, which were now owned by the residents, making 'insta-millionaires'
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:57; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: actually these are cheap, esp. in that when they explode, nobody's widow gets a pension
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381688 << 'tis just a step on the road to the obvious solution of entirely disposable versions of all the above
asciilifeform: so that folks could eat a little in the hungry '90s
asciilifeform: de-sovietized affairs of all kinds, from oil&gas to factories, etc. were turned into stock, 'vouchers', parcelled out among the peeeeeple
asciilifeform: re: paying non-investorgrade folks (as in, people who need to ~work to eat~) in stock, do you know the soviet voucher story ?
ben_vulpes: 'tis in the logs.
asciilifeform: also i am quite amused thinking about how ben_vulpes quasi-offered me work in a shop where the toilet paper is supposed to be an appealing perk
asciilifeform: at least here in the reservation, this is so.
asciilifeform: BUT these folks are typically 'bred to be eaten', heavily selected in the first place for the kind of behaviours that preclude 500k-in-pocket.
asciilifeform: he ~could~ put the 500 in his pocket instead of mortgaging his anal virginity to a 10m cardboard 'house'.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:40:55; mircea_popescu: they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382021 << around here, there is no shortage of 500k/y,50y.o. mortgaged to the hilt, who would die ~faster than i would~ if income cut to 0
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:57:53; ben_vulpes: relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382055 << you kill the queen of the hive and eat the royal jelly. this gives you five extra appendages, with which to kill other pretenders, and +5 vorpal sword of virility, and a +3 willpower.
ben_vulpes: it's good for the envirowhatever
asciilifeform: in a sufficiently intense collapse one might expect the toilets themselves to disappear, eventually
asciilifeform: there are tales of truck stops in finland being picked clean, early '90s, even of fixtures like mirrors and toilet paper ~holders~, for a while. then they were re-equipped sov-style to have nothing worth taking
asciilifeform: oh and you're not running a proper sov-collapse shop until the workers have to bring own shitpaper
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 20:50:17; BingoBoingo: We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily
ben_vulpes: lol you didn't read the thread didja
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: living in a rising, rather than falling, empire
asciilifeform: brunel was in the up elevator
ben_vulpes: clearly, there's no 'worthy' but 'demands'.
ben_vulpes: relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?
ben_vulpes: i am now confronted with the difficult question of what the fuck i'm doing even owning my own stock.
mircea_popescu: yes but see, you get them as you need 'em. lyf.
ben_vulpes: rubs the wrath itch?
mircea_popescu: hey, i started low on the dirigible scale.
mircea_popescu: hey, they don't pay me $infinity + bonuses + golden dirigibles for nothing.
ben_vulpes: anyways, thanks for the insight.
ben_vulpes: i realized that the shartup bezzletron actually got this right
ben_vulpes: i just had the weirdest experience
mircea_popescu: even if through whatever arcana you get it "good enough" for the current context you happen to inhabit, such as your room.
mircea_popescu: you're trying to meld two things together that will never, ever stay put as temperature varies.
mircea_popescu: their needs (represented by copper in this diagram) and the realities of owning stock in a small venture (represented by iron in same) have very different reactions to a change in financial context (represented as temperature)
mircea_popescu: there is absolutely no reason people who make 30 an hour should own stock ; and if they did it certainly shouldn't be yours.
ben_vulpes: explain the parallel in a little more detail?
mircea_popescu: imo you're trying to make a copper-iron thermostable alloy.
ben_vulpes: and as a result, my equitizing the staff is miserably difficult.
mircea_popescu: but the alternative is drinking straight crazy from a toilet bowl.
mircea_popescu: the only correct solution is to pay in stock only. you do get alf moaning about his sad fate as an owner of his own fate,
mircea_popescu: the result is that they have to make an endless array of rules to approximate "not entirely fucktarded teen".
ben_vulpes: i had to explain how buy-and-hold of non-dividend-paying-stocks the other day wasn't forgoing compounding.
mircea_popescu: they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons
mircea_popescu: the problem here, and it's a fundamental problem, is that the derps that get employed aren't usually investor grade.
ben_vulpes: wall street and congress got a hold of the notion and now there are all sorts of arcane bezzle-quirements like "must get valued by a state-blessed valutron", "must be investment grade paper" etc.
ben_vulpes: the insane fucking rules around ESOPs. i tell you.
ben_vulpes: hey man i'm just trying to get cash in the kids pockets while paying as little taxes on it as possible
mircea_popescu: well, it's your fucking toilet paper and what sort of people are these.
ben_vulpes: i don't see the problem with embezzling a reasonable amount of toilet paper. it's a valid business expense, and the staff don't get taxed for it.
mircea_popescu: all of the defense (you know, picking up when people steal toilet paper), none of the offense, none of the good stuff, like making the team not suck dicks.
mircea_popescu: then again john was quite a miserable manager.
ben_vulpes: except for the ones who are not and who don't want anything to do with my asbestos gloves.
ben_vulpes: the salesmen are also entirely interchangeable.
pete_dushenski: off to the cinema. g'nite !