asciilifeform: now use flags only function under gentoo. but the way they work is to translate into particular configure args when building
mircea_popescu: i think i'll wait for the whole thing ?
mircea_popescu: i will have the harem hum your nick during sex for a week in recognition.
asciilifeform: in such a way that the ports tree remains untangled, and the crud is not constantly knocking at the door to come back in.
asciilifeform: the whole tumourous affair.
asciilifeform: or any other 100% source-based animal.
asciilifeform: should also be, theoretically, applicable to bsd
mircea_popescu: i claim no ownership interest in the notion. it's so outrageous a tree somewhere in the forest prolly said somethingat some point.
asciilifeform: anyway it's in the collected al.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is with these idiots. "oh, there's fewer of those" o ya ? guess what - there's fewer of niggers and jews, also.
mircea_popescu: somehow, the fact that any system trying to "include everyone" necessarily excludes the best and brightest is never a concern.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shush you, it's not supposed to make algebra-2-sense. it's from the statistics-and-citizensheep textbook.
asciilifeform: srsly, orphan-with-fee counts the same as real-thing-with-fee ?!
asciilifeform: incidentally, wtf does prb think it's doing re: tx fee ordering, when it ACCEPTS MOTHERFUCKING ORPHANS !??!!!
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:34:37; sturles: By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days. A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time. I'm sure there are an infinite amou
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421047 << the mempool system is screamingly idiotic, since day 1
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:42; mircea_popescu: yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:12; sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
mircea_popescu: right, there is that part.
mircea_popescu: also miserably implemented, but then again it is prb.
mircea_popescu: yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer
sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
mircea_popescu: been discussed a coupla times in the logs.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're curious, what trb is contemplating to eventually do is a ring buffer with a per-kb fee only as the criteria.
deedbot-: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The layman’s guide to salvaging bitcoins in the era of Chicom miner monopoly. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/03/the-laymans-guide-to-salvaging-bitcoins-in-the-era-of-chicom-miner-monopoly/
sturles: Back in 2010 there was no eviction in place. Valid transactions stayed in the mempool until mined. Various eviction strategies have been tried for the last couple of years.
mircea_popescu: it's a cheap hack, made sense at the time
sturles: By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days. A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time. I'm sure there are an infinite amount of them..
mircea_popescu: check that out, "TradeBlock serves financial institutions with execution and analysis tools that capitalize on the potential of blockchain technologies."
mircea_popescu: sturles from my own nodes' estimation of what the "mempool" is currently.
mircea_popescu: for the curious, mempool was as high as 80mb during february, but recently it's ~8 or so.
mircea_popescu: that ~could~ be the explanation, sure.
sturles: There was a spam attack, which stopped.
mircea_popescu: yeah, mempool is low now for some reason, across the board.
mircea_popescu: (obviously because no protocol there is no actual definition of "mempool size" other than rough consensus, but wehartevers)
mircea_popescu: of the ~50mb mempool, that is.
mircea_popescu: ie, 84% of txn in the mempool had a higher priority.
mircea_popescu: in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool.
kakobrekla: anyway, sturles is giving us his current mempoolminpriority, which doesnt mean it was the same a week ago.
sturles: The transaction has one 3 month old input of 15.898 BTC. This alone may be enough to push the priority high enough.
mircea_popescu: no, sum the product
kakobrekla: and just sum the discrete inputs ages ?
sturles: 0 fee tx are thrown out if the priority is lower than what is required. Currently 142186611.6926576.
mircea_popescu: if you recall kakobrekla at the time it was merely broadcast and "not yet included" (in the public version of the blockchain), it had a very low priority.
mircea_popescu: right. by this calculation, the tx in question would not have remained in your pool.
sturles: Standard priority calculations. size of input * age of input for all inputs, then divided by the size of the transaction.
mircea_popescu: and if it's a 0fee tx, thrown out altogether ?
sturles: Which means that every tx with priority below 142186611.6926576 will be thrown out of the priority pool, and into the fee based pool.
mircea_popescu: and how do you calculate the priority ?
mircea_popescu: if there IS a time limit, what is it.
mircea_popescu: so then how does A2 have a lower priority than A1 ?
mircea_popescu: so how long is the longest you keep a txn ?
kakobrekla: >If you are proposing that you are actually running a node which keeps all 0-fee txn for a week plus, I very much would like to know what machine are you running, and when's the last time you realised what an incredible DoS mechanism this is.
kakobrekla: i asked him to join to answer the questions from qntra
mircea_popescu: you have enough trust, whenever you want to speak here you should pm assbot "!up" and decrypt the dpaste.
mircea_popescu: there's no argument to be had with a could.
mircea_popescu: no argument that it ~could~ be a so and so node. all sorts of things could be all sorts of other things. like the moon landing photos could be fake, and so on.
kakobrekla: i find the comment from 'sturle' much more interesting.
asciilifeform: the solution to toddler-with-machinegun is not moar armour.
mircea_popescu: as usual - centralist power is the enemy of free commerce.
asciilifeform: i can think of 1,001 variations on this theme.
asciilifeform: and say they blacklist anything previously appearing as payout on bb.
mircea_popescu: of course large payments remain a problem - not so many double digit btc moving around to an address with the following 4 chars.
mircea_popescu: as the commenter says, this does nothing for bitcoin, merely for bitbet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whichever they happen to dislike.
mircea_popescu: and yes, publish a sha of the whole list as-is somewhere on page also. so people can then verify at tyhe end.
mircea_popescu: say paid out bets are published as now, but proposed bets only show first 4 chars of the address, and only first two digits of the payment. except if under 0.01 it's just replaced with D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they can still blacklist addrs
mircea_popescu: listen kakobrekla can we modify the way bitbet works to actually satisfy this ? something like
mircea_popescu: so basically, yeah bla bla, miners can force "either doublepay or never pay" dilemma, but ~not on everyone~. only on derps who, like mp, actually publish the whole story.
mircea_popescu: no but on second pass this is actually correct, isn't it. ~I~ have been breaking the protocol with that design, indiscutably.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:19:06; mircea_popescu: jurov is it actually the js interpreter that takes up the bulk of that ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420894 << the thing is larger than just about any os, possibly even microshit's, and who the fuck knows or whether it is even knowable.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:17:37; jurov: just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question
mircea_popescu: romanian school has a whole curricula in literature dedicated to making the kiddies cry. this is well and good and the ~only way.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:12:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420876 << many children cry into books, this is normal. but now there is 'advocacy!11111'
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:09:58; mircea_popescu: since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:07:13; jurov: asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:06:36; mircea_popescu: they got one for asciilifeform too : http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627895
mircea_popescu: ftr anacam was as close to driving culture as the times and potus aspire to be and occasionally manage.
jurov: now something for lisp afficionados: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues/225 #TheShitJurovDoes #BackdooringEulora
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420812 << cascadia coming to the mp notions of "What is art" i take it ?
mircea_popescu: like it or not, the tendons won't give unless you get physical. you can talk yourself hoarse, it dun do anything.
mircea_popescu: chick's tougher than coffin nails, right in there with the she-marine. heck, they still use beatings to this day to loosen the girlies up.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420806 << ironically, the shit they're talking about is some of the harshest, least touchty feely shit out there. ballet, seriously ? have these people EVEN SEEN a ballerina in their life ?
jurov: yes, surely all the HTML5 and older(like DOM) functionality
assbot: Logged on 23-02-2016 08:51:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-02-2016#1413406 << basically us "college" chumpatron still experimenting with "what's the lowest qty of candy bar we give the cattle to keep getting the sweet sweet usg funds for them. like, out of the 100k per capita we get in fed funny money, what's the least we could dole out to the maggots in whose name the whole scheme is run ? maybe -100`000 in paper and $
mircea_popescu: centralization of opinion mining being inevitable, given that the problem of university financing is irresolvable. (see for instance http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-02-2016#1413495 thread)
jurov: so it's prolly the same with chromium's javascript engine
mircea_popescu: "you can have your own opinions, but we want to move from this situation where harvard & mit lied to you about you being smart enough to resolve any real word conondrum 'if you just got the facts [as officially branded facts by harvard and mit]'" to a much more economical "you can have your own opinions just as long as they're what we say they should be".
jurov: just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question
mircea_popescu: sort-of trying to chinese cartel the electoral process, pretty much.
gribble: Chromium (web browser) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)>; Out of memory handling - The Chromium Projects: <https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/out-of-memory-handling>; Hard Drive filling up? Check Chrome's File System folder - gHacks ...: <http://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/24/hard-drive-filling-up- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.
mircea_popescu: "Only mathematicians and some engineers actually use advanced math in their day-to-day work, Hacker argueseven the doctors, accountants, and coders of the future shouldnt have to master abstract math that theyll never need." [and could one day use to find out some unsavory facts about the best possible castle in the world!"
mircea_popescu: since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?
mircea_popescu: jurov wow, what the hell is in those 10gb ?!
jurov: so, it's there for a reason.
mircea_popescu fights the urge to skip ahead in teh log.
jurov: asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.
mircea_popescu: they got one for asciilifeform too : http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627895
kakobrekla: meanwhile http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sturles/ confirms he is the author of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420854
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 16:58:23; asciilifeform: d bet money that there is some peculiar mpbism that is being exploited here.
asciilifeform: the cockroaches, mice, and rats, have come to genuinely believe that they own the house.
asciilifeform: now the root of the matter is, the miners do not particularly relish being publicly called the vermin they are. and if they weren't specifically taking aim at tmsr, they will at some point work up the nerve, and do so. 'whatchagonnado about it.'
asciilifeform: (shows that the thing is actually real, in real time)
asciilifeform: 'You think Bitbet benefits from the open display of bets and payouts? Fine! Publish them for paid-out bets. Publish a shortened version for active bets, first few digits of the amount, a fragment of the address… publish hashes of the whole data, deedbot them, anything you'd like. Why publish the whole thing, plain text, all the time? What did you imagine would come out of that rabid, unthinking transparency besides empowered
assbot: In 1998 this webcam woman was the most famous person online | Dazed ... ( http://bit.ly/1UB7HK0 )
punkman: http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/29457/1/in-1998-this-webcam-woman-was-the-most-famous-person-online
assbot: Mosul dam engineers warn it could fail at any time, killing 1m people | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/21JqgxB )
punkman: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/mosul-dam-engineers-warn-it-could-fail-at-any-time-killing-1m-people
ben_vulpes: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/richard-serra-in-the-qatari-desert << another point on the 'what is art' curve and discussion
ben_vulpes: ballet is 'start when you're five and dedicate your life to it and 95% of you will fail to accomplish anything in the art even after doing so through your mid twenties at which point your body will be ruined and your mind will have forgone all education in pursuit of the art"
ben_vulpes: how the fuck is ballet accessible
phf: speaking of ballet, i went to see Mariinsky Ballet company perform at jfk center, place was packed, tickets were sold out months in advance, cheapest of them >$100. the company comes to u.s. once a year, brings one production, performs for one week. they are masters of their craft, with rigorous, brutal training regime and a demanding director. and it shows! meanwhile "accessible" american ballet is by and large mediocre, using
phf: "I hope that mathematics departments can also create courses in the history and philosophy of their discipline, as well as its applications in early cultures. Why not mathematics in art and music — even poetry — along with its role in assorted sciences? The aim would be to treat mathematics as a liberal art, making it as accessible and welcoming as sculpture or ballet."
phf: "It could, for example, teach students how the Consumer Price Index is computed, what is included and how each item in the index is weighted — and include discussion about which items should be included and what weights they should be given."
phf: andrew hacker wrote an opinion article in the new york times in 2012 where he did a test run of this idea, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html
phf: dana goldstein her husband andrei scheinkman, andrew hacker and his "domestic partner" claudia dreifus, just leave these names here, for the log
BingoBoingo: Its not the same, I told him. Reading fiction builds empathy.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_a_QXGA_display_in_a_R/T60_or_61 << in the same vein. also interesting, in the sense of what a strong fuck-you this is to modern laptop makers
phf: friend of mine coined a term "tech dykes" years before it became a thing. bossy mostly lesbian girls who are good at pushing nerdy boys around, so work as program leads and agile consultants. but that was before there was a strong political component
mircea_popescu: then again, gaming world is kinda opaque, who knows.
mircea_popescu: afaik eulora is strictly the only exception.
phf: ftr i've worked with female programmers, on average not better or worse then males, who would've thought. i've also briefly worked with "women in javascript" and they are predominantly wreckers
jurov has after maybe a week of full lisp immersion managed to write a function that crashes eclisp cold. details withheld till i reproduce on another machine
phf: pretty sure it's not these womens fault, eulora's upstream was "derps in gaming"
mircea_popescu: every farm hottie in the mud envies the old lady her complex undergarments. blessfully unaware that the old lady needs the complex undergarments to mask the fact that there's no activity they'd get in the way of.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> why - i do not know. <<it's the human love of variety. ends up making contrived shit seem appealing, especially to women (and castrated men, such as intellectuals and bureaucrats - which, by the way, are about the same thing)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Many are, but they first have to survive audition level appointment unless their scales are sufficiently silver
asciilifeform: where they come from.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: appointees are not fired in the usual sense, merely sent back to do some identical thing on a corp. board.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (for n00bz who think 'it is impossible to be sacked from usg' - it is actually very easy. one merely has to be employed as a contractor, of whom there is a dozen or two for every actual 'civil servant', and then you can be fired any hour.) << Or appointee (i.e. patronage position)
BingoBoingo: For some reason Birdfeeders remind me of the Maryland city known as "James Lafond presents Baltimore" http://feederwatch.org/blog/tell-us-about-bird-behavior-at-your-feeder/
asciilifeform: (for n00bz who think 'it is impossible to be sacked from usg' - it is actually very easy. one merely has to be employed as a contractor, of whom there is a dozen or two for every actual 'civil servant', and then you can be fired any hour.)
phf: i know a lot of career bureaucrats through my parents, and most of them tend to be very proud of chance associations, mentions, friendships, etc. "of note"
asciilifeform: i heard that when he died, the very few folks whose employment survived his retirement, were finally sacked.
asciilifeform: he was, (shock!) very boastful of being listed (at some, then recent, past) in it.
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2016 18:42:55; asciilifeform: '‘Ach, sir, it iss worse when they become refractory! One man, I recall, clung to the bars of hiss cage when we went to take him out. You will scarcely credit, sir, that it took six warders to dislodge him, three pulling at each leg. We reasoned with him. “My dear fellow,” we said, “think of all the pain and trouble you are causing to us!” But no, he would not listen! Ach, he wass very troub
phf: do you know what hurree babu really wants? he wants to be made a member of the royal society by taking ethnological notes.
asciilifeform: nobody would turn him out, he had the keys and - theoretically - outranked everybody, incl. base commander.
asciilifeform: poor fella, kept showing up even though he was no longer on the org chart.
asciilifeform: though he worked for 58 years for usg and was in 'plum book' (emeritus, or whatever the heathens call it)
gribble: Solving Squirrel Problems at the Backyard Wild Bird Feeder ...: <http://www.birdsforever.com/bird-feeder-squirrel-problems.html>; Tips for Outwitting Squirrels - National Wildlife Federation: <http://www.nwf.org/news-and-magazines/national-wildlife/birds/archives/2010/squirrels.aspx>; Keeping Squirrels Off of Bird Feeder - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaJL0fAARfM>
BingoBoingo: ;;google How do I keep the squirrels in my yard away from my bird feeders
asciilifeform: btw am i the only one who thinks of lumumba when hearing ubuntu ?
asciilifeform: l0l, reading the src, apparently I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING="true" cures...
asciilifeform: and who the fuck permitted this.
asciilifeform: * Space constraints set in the ebuild were not met!
asciilifeform: * There is NOT at least 3 GiB RAM
pete_dushenski: shinohai: heh. that dream has been deader than the animal fur on trump's head for 2 years and counting.
assbot: The Dream of Buying a Coffee With Bitcoin Is Dying, If It’s Not Already Dead | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVEat5 )
shinohai: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-dream-of-buying-a-coffee-with-bitcoin-is-dying-if-its-not-already-dead-block-size-fees <<< lol this article
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 21:52:34; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-02-2016#1415503 << mount her on a bicycle, pilfer a bottle from the office, mash around the city on bikes, break onto the in-decomissionment sellwood bridge and fuck on it? iono man what does one do with random girls anyways
punkman: pete_dushenski: the chiron is basically as close as one can come to riding in the atomic dirigible of land travel. << I'd take a UNICAT over the bugatti
shinohai: Bold design to say the least.
pete_dushenski: the chiron is basically as close as one can come to riding in the atomic dirigible of land travel.
pete_dushenski: to 9% average annual inflation before you even account for the 11% greater production supply of the new model.
pete_dushenski: http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/381/558/7/S3815587/slug/l/bugatti-chiron-12-1.jpg << in other news you can use, bugatti has a released a successor to the 'world's fastest car', the 2006 veyron (and sub-variants). the new car is called the 'chiron' and it gives an excellent view as to fiat inflation in the last decade : the chiron is 2.4x the list price of the veyron, which works out
shinohai: Seinfeld plays happily in the background as i do trb work.
mircea_popescu: i guess there's that.
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 17:21:53; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've been thinking about it, but i don't think this is actually resolvable. as it happens - the "magically working network - we don't know how it works" thing is much more appealing to the average joe than you know, "this is my node. i will defend it with my life". what life, are you kidding, got sitcoms to watch and shit.
shinohai: I forgot about the heathen bc,info allowing that pete_dushenski. Unfortunately too late now, my client went elsewhere and I do not have my coveted BTC today.
mircea_popescu: with tools like these, who needs a horde of stampeding bulls on ecstasy.
trinque: to live in such days as the era of software!
mircea_popescu: trinque> so then they all hit the same bug and chew their blockchains at once << no because heterogenous :D
pete_dushenski: shinohai: there's always (whisper it) bc.info. from there you can zip off the coins to whatever live wallet or other address you might so desire
shinohai: Now it works ok as a wallet if you use the generated keys, but that isn't practical on a live node.
trinque: I used funkenstein's, worked but the wallet's still unusable
trinque: unless there are two
shinohai: No I was using the pywallet method I have used before. Today it just decided it didn't like it.
pete_dushenski: shinohai: and were you using polarbeard patch for the privkey import ?
trinque: the whole wallet is severely fucked in a number of ways
shinohai: I didn't even get to the rescan part, just db error :/
asciilifeform: srsly, rsyncing the blockchain, wtfwhy
asciilifeform: and quite likely the easist variant.
shinohai: This time I am backing up the entire .bitcoin folder, space be damned
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the difference between kernel-mediated closedown and crash is that there's better handling of buffers.
BingoBoingo: The solution is brick chicom miners
pete_dushenski: if i may summarise the last 24 hours of logs, which i must say were eminently enjoyable save the lack of practical recourse discussed : bitcoin remains the world's worst payment network... except for all the others. and even still, not by much.
asciilifeform: they: 'for having such a big mouth'
asciilifeform: crocodile swimming in the river, sees monkeys beating a hippo savagely.
mircea_popescu: next the two meet him, they ask for a cigarette. which he gives them. so they ask for a light. rabbit is all like "sure, what'd you like, match, ligther ?"
mircea_popescu: so the rabbit buys himself a beret.
mircea_popescu: so wolf and fox walk around the forest and they see a rabbit. fox : "let's beat the shit out of this loser" wolf : "we need a reason..." fox : "we'll ask him where's his beret... and if he has none, we beat the shit out of him!"
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2014 01:31:44; mircea_popescu: mkay. so in th forest there lived this very horny, huge schlong bear. sort of like one eye pete of the beardom.
asciilifeform: i only recall the hedgehog.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone know the joke with the rabbit and the bear ? the one with the beret
asciilifeform: not familiar with the case, but plenty of this in ww2 ?
asciilifeform: (though, in pathological cases, the dead can rise again, say chetty wrote down her key somewhere, for whatever reason, and it is found)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes seems exactly the same thing.
asciilifeform: lost - can reappear. theoretically.
asciilifeform: i might be mentally overextending traditions from the meat world, but wouldn't a lost key be different from a dead lord's in the sense where a man lost at sea differs from one buried with witnesses ?
mircea_popescu: wasn't there some guy with a lucrative eth contract that lost his key ?
ben_vulpes: where in the log might inquiring minds read this caselaw, mircea_popescu ?
ben_vulpes: the account persists on mpex until mircea_popescu cleans it out
PeterL: so really, asciilifeform's question is: what happens to shares if the key is lost?
mircea_popescu: i could see the deedbot will thing.
asciilifeform: if somebody has the key, 'you' are still alive...
PeterL: put the dispensation of your shares into a will, stick it in deedbot?
mircea_popescu: in general, unspecified, in particular cases, as agreed with the previously living.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i gotta ask, what happens to shares owned by the dead ?
mircea_popescu: trinque doesn't like that there's multiples ? or what did i do wrong ?
mircea_popescu: in other news at 4:42 - all money systems significantly more broken than previously realised.
trinque: As long as they keep their PINs secret, they should be safe from fraud. For this master plan to work, though, the IRS would also have to keep the PINs secret. << oh my god the win
PeterL: wasn't the bitcoin foundation going to produce a protocol spec at some point, or is that on the list after the reference implementation is more developed?
assbot: The IRS is using a system that was hacked to protect victims of a hack—and it was just hacked - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1nietXu )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, http://qz.com/628761/the-irs-is-using-a-system-that-was-hacked-to-protect-victims-of-a-hack-and-it-was-just-hacked
mircea_popescu: there's a significant difference between "this cave is infested with spiders" and "this cave is home to a spider queen the size of a camper van". at least to my eyes.
ben_vulpes: give the show away?
mircea_popescu: can give the show away etc.
mircea_popescu: because you can't measure all things at the same time, basically.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: did you pay to have a block mined including your transaction before sending the dup?
mircea_popescu: PeterL that's an anachronistic argument. merely because they included it once B, you infer that they would have included it wherher B or non-B. this both fails tgo explain all the points prior to B that didn't include it (standard lifetime of mempool tx is about half the interval contemplated here) and the fact that you're drawing in the conclusion in the presumptions.
asciilifeform: not big brother.
asciilifeform: and it's 'grandpa of the iron ricebowl' in cn.
asciilifeform: don't want another.
mircea_popescu: i don't want a fucking big-brother-bitcoin-from-china-san to pray to.
PeterL: but if there is wait-time-weighting being done by miners, then sitting for a week would make the transaction viable when it was not before
mircea_popescu: this is the core of shipwrighting as a science
asciilifeform: and if it even worked like the ocean,
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420457 << this is specifically NOT the assumption. bitcoin being a working protocol however DOES mean that you should be able to assume that if a transaction is rejected, or not included, or delayed, or in any way treated or not treated it is solely on the basis of data COMPLETELY contained in that transaction.
ben_vulpes: so far none of the bag^H^H^Hshareholders seem to give a shit
punkman: I don't think this experiment is worth, say ~6 months of profits, but that's strictly the BB's board discretion.