mp_en_viaje: but at the root of the becoming, in those who do become something, is the problem of perceived vulnerability. there's no such thing as "introvert" or "extrovert", simply, some kids are afraid, and thus seek outside ; some kids are too dumb to be afraid, and thus spend a lot of time in intricacy.
asciilifeform: iirc recent years' crops of reich.lawyers aren't esp. distinguishable from reich.engineers et al, also 'a lot of time fucking intricately with garbage' and the cultural level of sewer rat
mp_en_viaje: you can tell, within an hour or (very often) less, by observing 5yos, whether they'll grow up to be "intelligent" or on the contrary, lawyers.
mp_en_viaje: he is the sort of guy who doesn't fuck a lot of women, doesn't speak a lot of languages, doesn't like reading things he doesn't know how to interpret and spends a lot of time fucking intricately with garbage.
mp_en_viaje: there's nothing substantial about physics or math that make them any other way. it just so happens, for reasons entirely unrelated to math, that the sort of 5yo that will grow up into a technomoron will rather deal with math. had he preferred, for similar, purely subjective reasons, bricklaying or kite flying, THESE would be "advanced" and "require intelligence" and blablabla "stem"
mp_en_viaje: people keep heewing and hawing about "stem fields" and "intelligence". but neither correlates with reality. intelligence is immaterial, and the only meaningful definition of "stem fields" is after the fact -- "those fields which tend to attract technomorons, defined as those 5 yos who do not play well with others and think themselves invulnerable"
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, seems unlikely. the sort of fellow never surrenders, there's this deeply inborn sentiment of invulnerability burning deep in the technomoron. more likely, they're taking it as a "challenge accepted", came up with who knows what ratty, nigger-rigged paliatives.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i vaguely suspect that at this point, the other haroldmartins, entirely aware of the yellow dots, have burned their piles
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 13:51 diana_coman: it's the equivalent of "because some people are not worth talking to, you shall show me your passport/ID card every time you want to talk to me (and at every reply even)"
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1914947 << amusingly enough, trilema deals with a commentary flow i'd say about the square of the people trying to solve the problem of dealing with comment flow, and yet i dun have their problems.
mp_en_viaje: people more often do things to sate a gnawing perceived necessity to do something, than because they actually figured out a plan.
mp_en_viaje: follow the logic tho -- highly qualified tech did not get there through being gregarious or politically capable ; because his work is not readily replicable by the people who were gregarious and politically able, he is likely to be ordered things by them, which statistically will be illegal sometimes, and he is not likely to suddenly grow the missing parts and fix their stupid. so... red stapler exit.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 14:15 asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: we even have folx who dun have comment eater on their www at all. and iirc danielpbarron has only hand-cranked 'x wrote in re...' comments. but if you have automated comment box, imho the real win is to occasionally hear from intelligent heathens.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1914978 << aha. well, currently, if intelligent heathen really wants to tell me his thoughts, he can create an account.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-21 14:07 asciilifeform: (for folks who have not heard of this show trial - harold martin worked at nsa-tao and was arrested for, supposedly, taking the contents home by the crate.)
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 09:46 mp_en_viaje: meanwhile for the assange lulz files : http://archive.is/hSZDg#selection-81.318-81.344
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1914907 : the only reasonable construction on something like http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-21#1557757 (and there's A LOT of somethings like) would be "fellow was ordered to do something patently illegal, decided to stockpile documentary evidence".
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1914926 << might be interesting to look into how jp does ocr. (iirc they in fact have a working one for hieroglyphs, somehow)
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 11:37 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914400 << yes, tied to the UK. I'm currently looking for python dev work in Cambridge/Suffolk area.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: we even have folx who dun have comment eater on their www at all. and iirc danielpbarron has only hand-cranked 'x wrote in re...' comments. but if you have automated comment box, imho the real win is to occasionally hear from intelligent heathens.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: this is not deliberately a spam trap. i had a choice while working: to build an open-access-point to the wider internet, or not to do so. i chose - not.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 11:34 stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914395 << from logs + mocky's "why ada", i understand some of the technical merits of ada. however, my perception of the current job market is that trying to make a living at ada leads directly to a hardware sharashka.
mp_en_viaje: apparently they think "xxl" means 1 cm width and 25 cm length. cuz totally, my dick comes on a spool or some other european retarded shit
mp_en_viaje: THEN!!! i end up having all of fucking central europe scoured by my mounted slutlegions, which produces "masculan XXL", a german brand.
mp_en_viaje: land of small dicked morons! so, they don't import magnum, because hurr durr, economically independent colony, they got their own. then, they don't fucking have durex extra large. because hurr durr.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lol, didja find an unexploded ordnance in the blueberry steak ?
mp_en_viaje: in other news, europe fucking sucks.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: i did consider both. ultimately, i decided to stay with identity-based commenting rather than take a sift-the-noise approach.
stjohn_piano_2: 3) there may be an approach to signed comments that does not involve the primary key: examples: a) sign with a subordinate key b) validate your current IP for a time period (e.g. a month / year) by decrypting an OTP, like deedbot.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-30 15:49 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in olds, asciilifeform's 'xor 2 small numbers'+'say fg baud' spam filter seems to be 100% effective (a 1st?!) -- 0 spams in trap since installed ( legit comments , not many , but work -- tho there were never many )
stjohn_piano_2: in future, this will become easier for established identities, as i work out how to automate parts of the process.
stjohn_piano_2: your comment has been published. i'm pleased that the comment system worked. yours is the first external comment.
diana_coman: it's the equivalent of "because some people are not worth talking to, you shall show me your passport/ID card every time you want to talk to me (and at every reply even)"
diana_coman: well yes, but think of it: you are effectively making it *hard* for people (with established identities so those you say you do want to hear from) to provide feedback to you on the grounds that you don't want to bother with everyone; i.e. you are effectively unloading your work onto those who may be able to/willing to help you; doesn't seem a winning strategy to me.
stjohn_piano_2: i add comments manually to the data at present. in future, i may construct an automated system that can accept signed comments.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 13:09 diana_coman: anyway, since I'm not going to jump through those silly hooks now, I'll leave it here: you can message deedbot/any user privately directly, you don't need to join some channel first; and re newcomers, it's usually safer for themselves to join one of the lords' channels first, really (e.g. #asciilifeform, #trinque, #eulora)
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1914934 << aha. yes, for the moment, this is how i can handle comments from people in the forum.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 13:06 diana_coman: also, this http://edgecase.net/pages/how_to_comment_on_edgecase_datafeed is rather anti-comment; why would anyone go through the trouble of creating an account and having their comment "discussed" to talk to you stjohn_piano_2 ?
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1914933 << this is the comment policy for the wider internet.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 12:51 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: re ^ , an OTP challenge is a way to check one's identity; hence, deedbot will not send an OTP in response to !!register but WILL send an OTP in response to ~any other command (technically to any command that is a request of *someone* i.e. that requires an identity)
diana_coman: anyway, since I'm not going to jump through those silly hooks now, I'll leave it here: you can message deedbot/any user privately directly, you don't need to join some channel first; and re newcomers, it's usually safer for themselves to join one of the lords' channels first, really (e.g. #asciilifeform, #trinque, #eulora)
diana_coman: also, this http://edgecase.net/pages/how_to_comment_on_edgecase_datafeed is rather anti-comment; why would anyone go through the trouble of creating an account and having their comment "discussed" to talk to you stjohn_piano_2 ?
diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: re ^ , an OTP challenge is a way to check one's identity; hence, deedbot will not send an OTP in response to !!register but WILL send an OTP in response to ~any other command (technically to any command that is a request of *someone* i.e. that requires an identity)
stjohn_piano_2: i logged and summarised my experience of joining the web of trust (probably of interest mostly to noobs): http://edgecase.net/articles/joining_the_web_of_trust
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 22:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914441 << this is good q imho. the only reason i can think of for 'throw dice on flat table', is to avoid 'came to rest sharp edge up', which can introduce 'must either throw again, or pick between numbers by hand ' etc
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 17:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914364 << this is quite similar to the direct ancestor of v , jurov's trb mailing list system .
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 16:42 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914363 << if you haven't already read, you may be interested in ben_vulpes' classic likbez on v
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 14:50 diana_coman: moreover, while it is doable (like ~anything else really), it's hard to really see the reason to *choose* to do it when one hasn't yet been sucked into it ; and stjohn_piano_2 strikes me as trying to NOT get sucked into it.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914408 << yes, exactly. sadly, small business was not the right path. i've observed firsthand the final stages of the integration of small businesses into the gov. the regulatory overhead is enormous and ever-growing.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 14:42 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: are you actually tied to the UK? and anyway, what sort of job/where are you looking for one?
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914400 << yes, tied to the UK. I'm currently looking for python dev work in Cambridge/Suffolk area.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914395 << from logs + mocky's "why ada", i understand some of the technical merits of ada. however, my perception of the current job market is that trying to make a living at ada leads directly to a hardware sharashka.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 14:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914356 << plz don't bother unless you have one lined up already; i will prolly do it with own hands sooner
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:21 mircea_popescu: "the notion that airplanes could reproduce through laying eggs is merely a naive extension, in the vein of 'object A has properties a and b ; object B shares property a and therefore it is reasonable ~~~on a first approximation~~~ to expect it exhibit proerty b'. nevertheless, artifacts differ from nature in that one fundamental aspect, that they're inefficient, and therefore to achieve same ends end up heavy, and in the case
mp_en_viaje: lotta people had rather ridiculous notions about the internet, obtained through the usual means.
hanbot: "However, I must add that you have willfully chosen not to incorporate the dynamic nature of polity during the era in discuss."
mp_en_viaje: evidently, daytime soaps not entirely wasted -- various sets of africans in obscure shitholes imagine they're doing politics and such whiteman things thereby.
mp_en_viaje: true, then I can conclude that Akintola was always working with Zik and Bello to frustrate Awo's ambition."
mp_en_viaje: in similar news, https://www.nairaland.com/488532/samuel-ladoke-akintola/6 << "So why did Akintola place the call to Zik to warn him about Awo's attempt to deal with two parties? Was it not the same Akintola who went to Bello in the company of Rosiji? So how can we conclude that Awo sent Akintola to negotiate with Bello if Akintola called Zik before getting to Bello and then was in the company of Bello, when Bello called Zik? If what you allege is
mp_en_viaje: s loss mitigator" ? wtf, the office of sour losers ?
mp_en_viaje: i expect the form doesn't read anything like "fucker, i'm not digging up your underwater mortgage for you, get the fuck off that horse"
mp_en_viaje: in other purely ustardian lulz, https://journal.firsttuesday.us/brokerage-reminder-dont-be-coy-let-hardship-letters-tell-all/19202/ << the "hardship letter"
mp_en_viaje: it's exactly meat eliza, but with a sexual direction, rather than passive antenna.
mp_en_viaje: if not, might as well, has to my knowledge best cinematic representation of the approach.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-12 03:27 mircea_popescu: amusingly -- the chicken stealer (ro gainar, each language that saw them has its own word) is the lowest level of gypsy male qualification. a sort of transient baccalaureat if you will.
mp_en_viaje: it doesn't work nearly as well in pretty much any other field. excepting, perhaps, chicken theft, which is why it's called gypsy flirting.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-21#1914865 << it's an extremely successful strategy sexually (precisely because cunts run on perl, they're specifically optimized for just this sorta input).
a111: Logged on 2019-05-20 07:55 mp_en_viaje: they want to could have gotten laid.
asciilifeform would've asked 'why do they need to pay money and come to club to sit an' watch' but i recall mp_en_viaje [answered this puzzler][http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-20#1914729] earlier
mp_en_viaje: as long as it satisfies them and doesn't get in my way...
asciilifeform: fair'nuff. tho if the argentine club was anyffin to go by, most of'em dun even rent the old cars, but sit an' watch with open mouth
mp_en_viaje: for as long as they don't pompously move into attempts at "governance", or in whatever other way forget their place, who can deny peacible coloveks the quiet enjoyment of their aftertea dreamtime ?
mp_en_viaje: more affordable that way. and, in limine, i don't even see much wrong with it -- so some people who aren't f1 pilots gather around and rent the old cars for a few hours a few times an hour, spin them in an old salt flats. something wrong with this ?
asciilifeform: ( i assumed that in irc he was working 5-6 marks at same time, hence the flavour )
mp_en_viaje: makes the ~same wetware shannonizer impression irl.
asciilifeform: and pestered ben_vulpes , and possibly coupla other folx, out of band
mp_en_viaje: just because i go to budapest's finest and, among people taking one girl out for one cup of coffee, have the stephania steak / lamb in blueberries etc served TWICE, for my pair o fgirls....
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: nao i'm curious -- is hungary some sorta elephant graveyard where these go to die..?
mp_en_viaje: then, supposedly, we ruined his life (in part through he getting banned off whatever shithub)
asciilifeform: next mp_en_viaje will find that gavin et al are there also...
mp_en_viaje: THAT is what the missing link was. dork "critiqued" cardano.
mp_en_viaje: ok, so believe it or not, sluts actually solved the mystery!
asciilifeform: there was a...
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: which 1 ? there were 2-3 iirc
BingoBoingo: For the record DJI has a more honest commercial presence in Uruguay than Caterpillar. The DJI storefronts have drones. The CAT store fronts cannot even order earthmoving equipment.
BingoBoingo: Since feedbot seems to be absent at the moment: http://qntra.net/2019/05/usg-now-targeting-chinese-toy-maker-dji-over-national-security-concerns/
asciilifeform: this is supposing you dun have a working one already ( gotta have the mutex, or lines end up munged, hence why i wrote this )
trinque: I'm going to catch all errors and have the thing log and restart, yes.
trinque: maybe the relevant bits are already gc'd
asciilifeform: trinque: back in the day i had catch-all condition handlers in main loop of thread, that shat to verbose logger
trinque: yeah, tried that, barfs about the thread already being toast
trinque: anyone know how to get sbcl to cough up the error that caused a particular thread to terminate?
mp_en_viaje: with the added shame, of course, that james a donald hasn't, five years later, yet fulfilled ~his obligations~, natural as well as legal, to that piece.
mp_en_viaje: fucking perfect, especially considering just how dependent "colonial empires" are on the inputs from the margin to mainain their "law" systems.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in "holy shit i kick so much ass" , http://trilema.com/2014/natural-law-and-the-problem-of-definitions/
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, hahaha, "the best vermouth here is cough syrup" style
diana_coman: re soy in salami + oils of all descriptions, I have this unforgettable experience of eating at one point some of those "salami" slices that ended up fried by mistake in... home-made daffodil syrup because it was actually looking more like oil than the oil and, well, mistaken bottle!
diana_coman: not sure truly alt, no; rather simply noting that it has been going that way for quite a while and not very surprising at that; by the time it's already the ersatz of an ersatz of a meanwhile forgotten replacement, well...
diana_coman: asciilifeform: possibly the "gdpr" data protection thing
a111: Logged on 2019-05-21 00:28 mp_en_viaje: 1980s ro complained that "poor quality", as in, "ceausescu puts soy in salami, chickory in coffee and corn flakes in chocolate". yet 2010s ro paid extra for outside terms, and the middle term item of hipster interest.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-21#1914756 - more observant people noted even then: nowadays one complains of sunflower oil for being "not what it used to be, not anymore" but grandparents used to complain that the olive oil was " not what it used to be, not anymore"; so, gradually boiling the frog makes frogs happy to be in the nice, hot water, what.
mp_en_viaje: in other news, apparently the guy in http://trilema.com/2019/wall-street-1987/ did the whole "paradise island with sluts" thing.
asciilifeform: zombiefication system worx pretty well tho to distract the shaped holes from looking inward.
mp_en_viaje: vanity ~= phantom pains of the self.
mp_en_viaje: can only has vanity after destruction of the self. of what use before ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They don't destroy the self. They preserve it in derealized selfy comfort bubble
asciilifeform: re 'vanity', not sure the usual word even applicable. can haz 'vanity' after destruction of the self ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, there's a pic with a can of folgers' somewher
BingoBoingo: California, land of the exquisite soy sausage and petrocheese picada
asciilifeform: ameri-sovok achieved the 'dream' of 'soy man', who ~demands~ soy salami.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'west reich' 100yrs ahead in zombiefication tech vs. 'east', evidently. 'soy salami' there, undreamed of in sovok, and 0 'mass' complaint, importers of genuine food from e.g. europistan struggle , rather than make mega-bank.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-20 22:54 BingoBoingo: So a local kiosko underwent a change in ownership. Went from being a husband and wife operation to a father son operation. Soon afterwards they hire... security!
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile, 1980s ro were actually upset because ~nobody could be arsed to advertise to them~. subjectively perceived ego wound.
mp_en_viaje: 1980s ro complained that "poor quality", as in, "ceausescu puts soy in salami, chickory in coffee and corn flakes in chocolate". yet 2010s ro paid extra for outside terms, and the middle term item of hipster interest.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-14 18:51 asciilifeform: 'sausage emigre' is stock term from rusphere , there folx chronically cited '50 types of sausage' as 'first impressions from new york' etc
a111: Logged on 2019-05-20 14:51 asciilifeform: i suspect that mp_en_viaje is right, and even the 'ai beautifier' thing is redundant, all the machine needs to do is to work like the mirror in brothers grimm, whisper 'you are the fairest of them all' to the sow, will suffice.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-20#1914738 << gotta whisper ~convincingly~, though, is the thing. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-14#1913304 is a process, "you are great and important and special" "how do i know ?" "because we went to trouble of making 50 types of sausage and printing this leaflet to let you know" "ah ok then"
BingoBoingo: Anytime they are open they have a big guy sitting out front dressed like a thug (to the extent folks can here) doing security
BingoBoingo: So a local kiosko underwent a change in ownership. Went from being a husband and wife operation to a father son operation. Soon afterwards they hire... security!
diana_coman: funnily enough I got the impression that ~nobody actually likes the ending (whatever it is, I have no idea re the whole "film")
BingoBoingo: Such is the derealization of socialisms today
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 07:42 mp_en_viaje: meanwhile the capitalists can claim to be marketing quality fiction, they've bridged the gap, see, they have both large herds of moomoos watching and also (plausibly-deniably) a good story being screened! and they even paid the author lotta money!
BingoBoingo: So the headlines in Pantsuit press today almost all relate to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914630 coming to an end. Turns out they did a modern democracy and made Sir Elliot of exquisite tastes king.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-20 14:46 asciilifeform: diana_coman: the inevitable association in my head re subj , is how in national museum of natural history in washington, there was at one point a coin-operated thing that 'see yourself as chimpanzee' .
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-20#1914735 - lolz, low and old tech! but yes, essentially the same thing, "see yourself as..."
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the oddities lint trap, 1 in 2^32 , elementarily, chance of this longfp 'naturally'. (did he 'mine' it?! lol)
asciilifeform: i suspect that mp_en_viaje is right, and even the 'ai beautifier' thing is redundant, all the machine needs to do is to work like the mirror in brothers grimm, whisper 'you are the fairest of them all' to the sow, will suffice.
asciilifeform suspects that they took out the chimptron after certain users complained that the 'before' and 'after' pics were not sufficiently distinct...
asciilifeform: i guess they built one that worx in 'reverse gear' nao...
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the inevitable association in my head re subj , is how in national museum of natural history in washington, there was at one point a coin-operated thing that 'see yourself as chimpanzee' .
mp_en_viaje: it's altogether about replacing precious cuntlet as-she-is with a virtual imago that's more in line with her self-expectations.
diana_coman: I thought those mirrors/apps/whatevs were about showing how makeup/whatever would look like on the looker's face i.e. with a camera/pic taken not on model; anyways, supposedly if the "could have" was enough, everyone has it, what's to say they could not have gotten whatever at any time.
mp_en_viaje: they want to could have gotten laid.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-19 20:18 mp_en_viaje: "Our in-store AR mirror software provides a universal set of features for the most popular smart mirrors on the market. Beauty brands and hardware manufacturers can choose any mirror hardware of their choice and can instantly run ModiFace AR technology adopted to their mirrors."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-19#1914711 << lol! variant of the phone thing?! 'old sow looks in mirror, magically transforms to beauty' ? mega-bizmodel
asciilifeform subscribed for coupla yrs nao; seems to be the only 1 that worx in orcistans (as modem) at 0 extra cost. and overall 'cheap & angry'
a111: Logged on 2019-05-19 20:29 mp_en_viaje: in other better living through technology, https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/04/t-mobile-deceived-customers-with-false-ring-tones-on-failed-phone-calls/
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-19#1914714 << to pile on this lulz: afaik that one's actually 1 of the ~least~ scammy carriers in this part of reich
BingoBoingo to the blogging desk to assemble more Uruguay perspectives with lobbes and whaack showing interest in visiting the place.
BingoBoingo: And the crime where all of the fine goes to the USG's extortion reception bucket with the matter declared settled after payment to not the injured parties.
mp_en_viaje: the system's meanwhile well expanded throughout europe and south/central america. fining these fucks has the perverse result that it gives them a datapoint, which they will then use.
mp_en_viaje: in other better living through technology, https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/04/t-mobile-deceived-customers-with-false-ring-tones-on-failed-phone-calls/
mp_en_viaje: better living through technology, providing answers to the burning "how does this mirror relate to me" question of the general public.
mp_en_viaje: "Our in-store AR mirror software provides a universal set of features for the most popular smart mirrors on the market. Beauty brands and hardware manufacturers can choose any mirror hardware of their choice and can instantly run ModiFace AR technology adopted to their mirrors."
mp_en_viaje: in any case, it's not suggested to stay in reich ; the discussion was rather "if you stay". much like advice for diabetics isn't "first, get diabetes", but rather "if you already have diabetes..."
mp_en_viaje: if you're dumb enough to think they're you're friends, if you're dumb enough to buy into socialism "futures" and assorted scams, or "statuses" and other nominalisms, you may not survive.
mp_en_viaje: this is the cornerstone of survival : the adversative relationship. as long as you know you're there to steal, you measure how much you steal, and you get out on some sort of time horizon, you may survive.
mp_en_viaje: whaack, in summary, it's application of http://trilema.com/2018/the-principal-agent-problem-or-how-america-went-away/ ; "if you're not rich, pretending to be agent of imperial morons so as to separate them from their earthly goods is time-honored strategy"
whaack: trinque: i can't say i fully grok the advice, perhaps in part because i can't readily read the linked manual, and bc the advice seems to suggest staying in reich, which directly contradicts the usual guidance given here
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
trinque: and meanwhile maybe the fucking infects him, takes him early, as e.g. Framedragger, g_l, others
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 08:07 mp_en_viaje: not to mention poverty is an absolute obligation -- can't sit around going "meh" about saprophytism while being hungry. read ye poor people the 1860s manual, go forth and rob "your masters" blind. absolutely.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914643 << indeed, I encourage whaack et al to do the fucking, and not simply skip to the imitating having fucked, lest they entirely waste youth.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 06:43 mp_en_viaje: so strategically my notion here is to use a separated approach -- keep the theory clean and neat in one place, and encourage activity informed by it, but do not permit said activity to fuck up the theory.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914620 << it makes perfect sense, and I agree with the approach
trinque: I'm going to quickly restart deedbot in a repl session, so next time this hang occurs I can fiddle with the thing live.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 17:36 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914645 << not strictly correct -- consider how cheese, beer, etc. produced. or , in similar vein, how reich got 'phree' 30+yrs of life out of the 'yeast' digesting sovok
asciilifeform: or for that matter, the bolix thread.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 18:37 asciilifeform: and even if he believes that it ~cannot~ be further shrunk, it remains his job to die trying
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 07:48 mp_en_viaje: in which context, the way http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914461 rather reads to me is the direct converse, "most idiots wallow in their filth". this is even true, but i happen to be a zealot in the following sense : i do not admit any sort of proof can ever be brought so as to show the bad preferable to the good.
asciilifeform: ( whether 'worth mention' can be a question, but from pov of the folx who cultured the yeast for half century, certainly looked like a win )
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 08:10 mp_en_viaje: digestion never produced anything worth the mention. it's true that it can not be skipped, in the quest to "higher expression", but that's also as far as it goes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914645 << not strictly correct -- consider how cheese, beer, etc. produced. or , in similar vein, how reich got 'phree' 30+yrs of life out of the 'yeast' digesting sovok
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 06:43 mp_en_viaje: so strategically my notion here is to use a separated approach -- keep the theory clean and neat in one place, and encourage activity informed by it, but do not permit said activity to fuck up the theory.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 07:42 mp_en_viaje: it's win-win, see : the herd can "plausibly-deniably" claim to be watching "something cool". as far as every moomoo in the herd is concerned, they're not a buncha lamers. heck, they're almost cool, they sure as fuck watch true drama, where heroes die (sometime)!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914628 << iirc that thing was popular only ~after~ book2film , and strictly ~because~ meat grinder (iirc ~errybody gets killed or at the very least mutilated)
diana_coman: for all the good that accurate prediction (and the necessary clear and deep enough understanding of the matter) ever did as it were, esp re outcome.
mp_en_viaje: extremely difficult to dismiss a) text of b) clear ideological tendency which c) nevertheless makes statements as of the future d) at some time in the past which e) were borne by historical flow.
mp_en_viaje: yet the ~prediction~ it makes is entirely correct.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 15:08 mircea_popescu: romanian peasant proud continuator of rome, through the byzantium method. "we've been holding eyes closed to world for 2k years, because head does not follow reality, reality follows head!"
mp_en_viaje: in other obscura : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Imper-Barbar.jpg ; attempt at a map of "romania" as defined by stubborn traditionalism ; eminently excluding most of present day state of romania ; suspicious because over-centered on the somewhat arbitrary cutoff in 7-800ad. in practical terms surface extends today WAY past traditiona; mures-nistru space ; in the
mp_en_viaje: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html#selection-205.216-205.235 << yes but generous which way ?
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- Schedule for Republican work, May-June 2019
mp_en_viaje: digestion never produced anything worth the mention. it's true that it can not be skipped, in the quest to "higher expression", but that's also as far as it goes.
mp_en_viaje: not to mention poverty is an absolute obligation -- can't sit around going "meh" about saprophytism while being hungry. read ye poor people the 1860s manual, go forth and rob "your masters" blind. absolutely.
mp_en_viaje: moreover, it's an important rite of passage, it's something everyone should do, i have little faith in the born-impotent, people who never ran catabolic processes to a tidy profit, let alone know, relaxedly and from ample experience, that they always could.
mp_en_viaje: but this is a very personal thing -- i don't begrudge anyone left the interest his interest ; i'll even read the stories of faits d'armes, just because i'm too old to get it up anymore dun mean impotence is desirable now or some shit. fuck that world sideways, take all its money, by all means.
mp_en_viaje: i personally can't be arsed to extract money out of the decay of outside world. this is purely personal -- ive been doing it for a long time, marginal utility of more money for me personally is 0, intellectual curiosity left is nil, how shall this be best put ? fucked that
mp_en_viaje: certainly b is time-weak -- a body as humongous as the empire of the billion white men, built over millenia with great care, is quite capable of rotting for longer than a lifetime. fuck, it has in point of fact been rotting for longer than a lifetime, a few times over, even! both theoreticaly and from direct historical record it's clear enough : b is quite time-weak.
mp_en_viaje: in yet another possible (and idempotently equivalent) statement, the republic's a rare anabolic island in a wider body politic that went full catabolic. obviously our methods, our inputs and our outputs do not match the outside world. but a) we knew this going in and b) the premise is that catabolism does not last.
mp_en_viaje: stated by me, it sounds like a "no brainer", but it is in fact zealotry like any other : obviously "as a matter of definition" the good is better than the bad hurr durr ; the hidden coda is that i also hold these to be ~knowable~. suddenly, it's not so directly obvious.
mp_en_viaje: in which context, the way http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914461 rather reads to me is the direct converse, "most idiots wallow in their filth". this is even true, but i happen to be a zealot in the following sense : i do not admit any sort of proof can ever be brought so as to show the bad preferable to the good.
mp_en_viaje: (and really, only possible in fundamentally broken societies, and so much so that the mere presence of the mechanism is dispositive, not merely indicative, on the topic of social death -- once NH2(CH2)5NH2 is there therefore life already left).
mp_en_viaje: there's no argument that this can be done. it's a chumpatron, definitionally : get a buncha chumps gathered around an economically exploitable weakness, you thereby have a negotiable instrument that can thus therefore be sold for money. the argument is that doing this ~is not useful~
mp_en_viaje: and the author, who traded his work in for this exact usage (and, i'm pretty convinced, made it exactly to this spec in the first place), is "successful writer" -- the part that's a writer not successful and the part that's successful, not a writer.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile the capitalists can claim to be marketing quality fiction, they've bridged the gap, see, they have both large herds of moomoos watching and also (plausibly-deniably) a good story being screened! and they even paid the author lotta money!
mp_en_viaje: it's win-win, see : the herd can "plausibly-deniably" claim to be watching "something cool". as far as every moomoo in the herd is concerned, they're not a buncha lamers. heck, they're almost cool, they sure as fuck watch true drama, where heroes die (sometime)!
mp_en_viaje: once netflix or whoever bought it, they bought a very valuable franchise : now they can "continue" the "famous work of fiction" but ~without~ killing anyone anymore. this is what they're mass-marketing : "come ye herds, and watch the a) famous work of fiction where everyone dies but b) without anyone dying while you watch".
mp_en_viaje: perhaps the best example in latter this vein would be the case of the guy writing "game of thrones" -- he did two things : gathered a demo and provided an in. his in, craftily written in, was "everyone always dies".
mp_en_viaje: yes on occasion schmuck can sell his body with some political (like the caleb crain idiot hoped to do) or commercial success (like say that j k rowling retard, who "made a billion dollars" (in the usual manner) by "writing fiction" aka herdin
a111: Logged on 2019-05-18 00:23 asciilifeform: trinque: i once attended a gathering of 'writers'. one unusually introspective type uttered phrase 'do you all understand that we're competing for each other's beer money'
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-18#1914464 <<-->> http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-127.158-131.25 ; the situation is therefore precisely described.
mp_en_viaje: so strategically my notion here is to use a separated approach -- keep the theory clean and neat in one place, and encourage activity informed by it, but do not permit said activity to fuck up the theory.
mp_en_viaje: to widen the base you must water down the product, which exposes you downstream to the reversion problem -- even what appeared a bona fide revolution in the 90s could in fact be undone by the cunt process ;
mp_en_viaje: what's more, it's a problem that only can possibly have two classes of solution : either, like successful merchants, widen the base ; or else, like successful politicians, revolution.
mp_en_viaje: but from the pov of sane man -- everyone's in for having been caught, which is a stupid thing to do .
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 22:30 asciilifeform: i imagine all of the holes look quite similar from mp_en_viaje's olympus tho -- sorta like stones on the ground, mountains to ant, all look ~same from man's height
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914457 << rather, a holes a hole. no doubt makes a difference to prisoners themselves, as well as to professional prisoner herders, what everyone's in for.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, quite exactly. a re-read of the ingenious nobleman sir don quixote de la mancha through this critical lens might be most informative. note how panza is ~not hired~.
mp_en_viaje: now, there's nothing wrong with one who just happens to be a hero. EXCEPT if he has such poor grasp of money, inkeeps start laughing at him.
asciilifeform: ok then makes sense
mp_en_viaje: market is that situation where you can price things. the exact opposite of heroics.
asciilifeform: aa in this context 'market' as an artificial object, of civilized life, like 'plumbing', vs. merely the set of all possible interactions (incl. 'dumping', burning down competitor, etc. ) ?
a111: Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck didn't i think of that.
mp_en_viaje: in other words, market is what's left once the minimax approach was defeated. much like water doesn't burn -- because it has burned already -- minimaxing in context of money, language, human relationships does not work.
mp_en_viaje: not even a matter of predictable (as in, will be defeated in future). it happens to attempt to go agains tthe specific gradient of what the whole system does. market ~altogether exists~ so as to close the 0-infinity gap
asciilifeform: i.e. working strat in game theor. context
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc the trad term ( for what 'doesn't work in used cars biz' ) is not, is 'robust'
mp_en_viaje: in markets, the minimax strategy is universally inept, specifically because you lose through average losses not through catastrophe.
asciilifeform: as in the plant
mp_en_viaje: this strategy works sometimes, but it never works in the context of used cars, because ~many other agents played the game already~.
mp_en_viaje: this is the strategy of blondy : the wildest possible edge of "40Gs" as a price would be if the G's were those found in Kellog's. to ~insure herself against the maximum loss where that's what the yactually were~, she proceeds to cut them out, and see.
mp_en_viaje: minimaxing works fine in engineering and d&d. it is not a workable strategy in energy exchange, be it in the form of boat-on-sea or in the form of picking-up-chick or in the form of find-jerb etc.
mp_en_viaje: this is fine and dandy, but you have to look at the thing, and evaluate it, and improve it through the usual rational process. rather than pretend it's not even there.
asciilifeform: ( orig. iirc persia, 'to idiot, i gave an axe, so he would cut some wood; but went instead to mosque, the door he smashed best as he could' )
mp_en_viaje: which is the substance of my objection : that on certain topics, which aren't randomly distributerd but structurally related to money (in the sense of social interaction) you tend to apply such wildly inadequate macroexpansions.
mp_en_viaje: then latter is quoted in k
mp_en_viaje: tv show. not really : blondy public woman, very dim, decides she wants car, asks how much, is told 40G's, starts cutting out the letter g from cereal boxes
mp_en_viaje: because it takes a certain dose of insanity to think the equation you solved was the equation that was being presented. you recall that episone in married with children when christina applegate was saving cereal box K's to buy car ?
mp_en_viaje: nevermind what to disagree. stop sliding around all the time, it's like you have a cuntprocess in your head, the moment money starts being discussed you're suddenly an octopus on ice.
mp_en_viaje: well, broker more than breaks even. so he does have the caragea argument, "i'm trying to steal enough before they steal it back to take off"
mp_en_viaje: man who makes 1mn a year on wall street has THE EXCUSE.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, "if you're not making bank on wallstreet, you have no excuse to be there ; and even then, it's an excuse."
mp_en_viaje: but the fact that the man selling you a job is using some "unrelated" accolytes to collect the cost of job, and the fact man selling you job pretends he's collecting "rent" which is totally no cost of job makes no fucking difference. and the fact man selling you job tries to pretend you gotta buy it, to "have status", much like engagement ring salesmen try to pretend, also make no difference.
asciilifeform: ok, take the succesful broker, 1m/y in. that same brick house, 900k. what is output of algo ? ( per my reading of orig - 'not scam' ? )
mp_en_viaje: like a pair of shoes, which is WHAT THEY ARE. a job isn't who the fuck you are, a job is ~something you bought~. like a tv set or a couch.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, the discussion was aboout trying to help him evaluate jobs.
mp_en_viaje: and yes, this happens to be the two-pronged approach of socialism : tryina make the job about you, and tryna making the payment about something else.
asciilifeform: aite, so ~was~ strictly re the sums in given units ?
mp_en_viaje: if you lived off photosynthesis, the scamjob still stays a scamjob. because whether job is scam or not ~is about the job~. NOT about you, in any capacity.
mp_en_viaje: where you live makes no difference!!! for as long as "the job" is something which does not pay enough to buy ~house~, THEREFORE you pay to go. wherever you live, whatever your conditions.
asciilifeform: so , to expand this binomial, 'if yer living in cardboard, thereby you pay to go' ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, this is the difference. job == where they pay you to go ; scamjob == where you pay to go there.
mp_en_viaje: i pointed out to you that this is not a valid response, you ~moved on to attacking me~. guess what, wehther i'm rich or poor, happy or unhappy, tall or short, it is STILL not valid to go into a discussion of 1+2 when i point out to you you did something stupid.