a111: Logged on 2019-05-24 06:38 mircea_popescu: cuntfear, produced as the reflection of the (young) female coy behaviour in the (socially isolated) male, is the basic, universal driver of all the idiotic subcultural behaviour.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-24#1915445 -> dunno about reflection of coy because if not coy then they get even more scared.
mircea_popescu: aaand now that the log's been thoroughly destroyed for the day, /me shall go write an article!
a111: Logged on 2019-05-23 20:06 mircea_popescu: "NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum" roflmao.
mircea_popescu: then they get to be 30 and still stay mentally 16, and voila, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-23#1915400
mircea_popescu: anyway, the reflection's particularly amusing : 12 yo girl goes "hmm... i have this thing between my legs... wtf is it ?! seems pretty fucking weird... actually, this shit's scary holy shit" ; 16 yo boy goes "omfg, girls are so fucking great and bestest...hmm... and EVEN THEM in their divine perfection are still affraid of cunt ?! THAT THING IS MONSTROUS!!!!".
mircea_popescu: as far as "don't take your guns to town" dorky mcdorkenson is concerned, there's nothing scarier.
mircea_popescu: nicoleci, there's a lot of these schmucks, who "don't want to assume". shit's scary, what! imagine, it bleeds monthly and you don't die, it's always wet yet you don't rust, IT CREATED THE WORLD!!!
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 14:35 mp_en_viaje: he is the sort of guy who doesn't fuck a lot of women, doesn't speak a lot of languages, doesn't like reading things he doesn't know how to interpret and spends a lot of time fucking intricately with garbage.
mircea_popescu: cuntfear, produced as the reflection of the (young) female coy behaviour in the (socially isolated) male, is the basic, universal driver of all the idiotic subcultural behaviour.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-20 07:55 mp_en_viaje: they want to could have gotten laid.
mircea_popescu: but what he likes about it is the promise that perhaps sex isn't about sex after all, and thereby ye fearsome http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-20#1914729 might be had for cheaper by him ? please say he doesn't HAVE TO stick the member into the scary hole necessarily ? IT IS DANGEROUS!!!
mircea_popescu: though i grant, "there's no anal" is an exceptionally crafty summary of the problem.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the "debate" (between sex as a purely performative activity and "moral" sex) directly mirrors the older "purpose of literature" wank. it's a sure sign you're reading cvasi-literate morons when all their crap has a "clear moral tendency". which is actually the deep reason you don't like inane anglowank like jane austen, and ALSO why gay-in-denial us math grad / budapest "writer" does "like" it.
mircea_popescu: (for the needs of this discussion, ~all of the united states, excepting san fernando valley, some choice tinybits in san francisco, san diego, arizona and texas fall precisely under "ex-european colonies" heading)
mircea_popescu: cooption towards their preoccupations was already a clear sign of imminent reversion. after all, the savage finding a radio will first gaze in mindblown delight, then attempt to cure his warts with it, then go back to chasing squirrels. same here.
mircea_popescu: "fascinatingly threatening, so incomprehensible i can't even judge if the opinion i formed on it is meaningful"
mircea_popescu: thus pedestrian vomit like "pua" as well as reactive nonsense like "re-protestant/original xtianity", "straightedge" etcetera. they're all the ~same thing, epiphenomena among the inconsequential, and you'll readily notice the rlationship between peons' reaction to my showing up and these dudes reaction to porn as a cultural phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: the immigrant's experience of tearing, right, in the particular case of 1980s to 2000s immigration had a very strong sexual component that the poor fucks in question were eminently ill equipped to digest.
mircea_popescu: but in impoverished, rural, "traditional religion" communities, such as the european metropolitan ghettos / ex euro colonies producing their demographic support, it resulted in poorly expressed, highly tensed wank.
mircea_popescu: certainly. though the schmuck in question was never mainstream ; he's part of a specific outer cloud of wankers that never amounted to anything beyond sadness.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-23 16:30 BingoBoingo: In the ongoing saga of a bizarre character: https://archive.is/mOwmu
nicoleci: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-23#1915343 << so this is what you meant by reversion to the mean, Master?
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, egypt visa policy is the lulz of all time. afghanistanis, sudanese, yemeni and lebanese nationals can travel w/o visa, provided either >50 or <16 ; algerians, moroccans, tunisians if <14 ; chinese if got 5 star hotel reservation and $$$$$ (ie, 5 figure) in cash ; libya, if female, or else lives in tobruk ; jordan, if passport does not hold jordanian stamp on page 60 ;
BingoBoingo: In other lulz, Nuland denied a visa to Russia
asciilifeform: turned into messianic cult, of sorts, in '16, and then 'messiah' wiped arse with'em
mircea_popescu: something thereabouts. end of 1 start of 2
asciilifeform: is the period most of'em started in, iirc
asciilifeform: there usedto be a whole 'www ring' of folx like that
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dunno whether that d00d even had a 'scheme'. was generic loud redditus iirc
BingoBoingo: The evidence bears that out
a111: Logged on 2019-05-23 16:35 BingoBoingo: This problem seems to be why every popular effort at making a political right ends up turning into another socialist left
BingoBoingo: His audience is/was interesting for being the sort of alt-right which, had chance taken them saner... could have been a recruiting ground.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It is looking so. The switch is only a few hours old, but...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, so basically, moving into the switch phase of his bait and switch scheme ? didn't work for that other cocksucker, either.
mircea_popescu: "NEW RULES: Casual sex and hooking up can no longer be discussed on the forum" roflmao.
asciilifeform: yea dunno why no one does ( i dun buy the lamps, wtf, i have cork-lined steel chassis , where is the lamp to light )
asciilifeform: so was speaking of the lamp
asciilifeform: then oughta pwm, neh
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would anyone do this!
mircea_popescu: in other sads : amd fx proc has one helluva hea tsink. it even includes a cool light rim around the outside
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking of doing the summer-in-europistan/winter-in-americas thing ?
mircea_popescu: hello all, from the european castle mp!
BingoBoingo: ^ USG Pantsuits defeated on their home turf
asciilifeform: at 1 time asciilifeform worked in 'cpu-bound' protein modeling racket and salivated over 'possibility of qc' along with 9000 other chumps etc
asciilifeform: today i can't stomach, even the older ones, barfalicious shilling for 'd-wave' co. etc.
asciilifeform: lulzily, for some yrs i occasionally read his www, and all that time thought it was named for some obscure algo ( y'know, how there is 'ant-colony optimization', variant on simulated annealing with multiple threads and 'pheromone trails' , imagined there is perhaps also a 'shtetl optimization'... )
a111: Logged on 2019-05-23 16:38 asciilifeform did not read at length the 'red pill' people, but recalls that they had distinct streak of 'nostalgia' for a quasi-mythical past when 'would be issued a wife by village' etc
asciilifeform: 'i was all fuckedup on drugs; but then i found jizzus; nao i'm all fucked up on jizzus; but that's ok, i'm taking drugs for it'(tm)(r)(al schwartz)
BingoBoingo wonders how much of the turn involves shrooms and psychadelics turning into a fad among that set of kids
BingoBoingo: My impression is that growing up in a land of insanity they ended up searching for sanity and ended up wandering into a different insanity
asciilifeform did not read at length the 'red pill' people, but recalls that they had distinct streak of 'nostalgia' for a quasi-mythical past when 'would be issued a wife by village' etc
BingoBoingo: This problem seems to be why every popular effort at making a political right ends up turning into another socialist left
asciilifeform: 'acute christianity of the cns' ...apparently
BingoBoingo: A computer isn't the price comparison point here. This is Uruguay, they compare to the price of a motocicleta.
asciilifeform: ( if you walk into their store, the actual price iirc aint even printed on the sticker; instead 'monthly' rent )
asciilifeform: crapple, incidentally, jacked up the price not so that rich idjits would buy, but so that poor idjits -- rent
asciilifeform: if to think about 'price ceiling', there is of course not a ceiling, even in 1990s there was somebody who sold gold-plated, diamond-encrusted motorola brickpnoje
BingoBoingo: http://archive.is/bFJMj Apparently some of the iThings that don't sell go higher in price, but 4-figure USD prices
asciilifeform with great difficulty pictures anyone other than ameritards paying 4fig price for pnojeisms
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Huawei sells pNohe models that dwarf Apple in price. The own the high end with a strong presence in the mid range market
a111: Logged on 2019-05-23 06:14 mp_en_viaje: that bank very much buy the us, if anyone wanted suchj.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-23#1915314 << for all i know, long ago already bought. reminds me of a fella i knew who compulsively bought old cars ( and garages, all over town, to put'em in, in which for them to rust... )
asciilifeform: a la the old imperial civil service garb
asciilifeform: hrm i seem to even recall that 'retro' costume is nao in fashion there
a111: Logged on 2019-05-23 06:10 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, that;s nonsense. huawei currnently owns the "smart"phone market. it's their own phone, it's better than the reich phone, etc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-23#1915310 << certainly cheaper than crapple, who nao charges ~weight-in-gold for their brick. but afaik, both camps of 'smartpnoje wars' are of chinese iron with reich os.
mp_en_viaje: problem is, took empire decade.5 to start mumbling about it ; and by now it's way too late, and their mumbling is vaguely reminiscent of bush jr's arab genocide attempt.
mp_en_viaje: and yes, all of huawei was built on [http://trilema.com/2011/modelele-succesului-intelectual/#comment-46439]]straight theft].
mp_en_viaje: i get it, they don't do (enough) of what you want them to. but they do what they want to, for some reason they decided to go in through the phone hole. and they're in, orcs buy huawei, and declare it better than reich.
mp_en_viaje: that bank very much buy the us, if anyone wanted suchj.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-05 12:19 mircea_popescu: the icbc is quite present here, to the point they do consumer advertising either. yet the argentines don't seem to have created any sort of synthetic debenture based proxy for the chinese currency
a111: Logged on 2017-02-07 04:38 mircea_popescu: "Examples of existing business arrangements that constitute violations of the foreign-emoluments clause include: Chinas state-owned Industrial and Commercial Bank of China is the largest tenant in Trump Tower, and the state-owned Bank of China is a major lender to Trump."
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, that;s nonsense. huawei currnently owns the "smart"phone market. it's their own phone, it's better than the reich phone, etc.
asciilifeform: those empty blocks they mine, is as clear a symptom as any.
asciilifeform: we've seen this film before, sovok also had the notion 'software, eh, unimportant, let the буржуи write it an' we'll crib'
asciilifeform: ( fwiw they're all imported orc hands )
asciilifeform has had the misfortune of reading some of their attempts. ~same flavour as 'india coad' generally.
asciilifeform: chinese ~could~ learn to write proggies themselves, but for some reason afaik no signs of this yet.
BingoBoingo: Huawei already owns the high end fondleslab pNohe market outside the US. Not like they can't use owning the market to shift what the warez is.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik all reich designs. near as i can tell, china succumbed to the old sovok disease, where 'let's make reich-compat. chips so that we can use warez'
BingoBoingo: Huawei switches and routers however have some rather beefy MIPS chips
BingoBoingo: Well, what could have went into that would have not gone into eating the market
BingoBoingo: I mean its not like China has their MIPS alternative anywhere visible
mp_en_viaje: why did petrus play the servant for as long as he did ?
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, arm inc. is exactly microshit, i.e. somehow charging megabux for 'license' to use their megatonne of bugridden cisc ??? pileashit
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 22:27 BingoBoingo: I don't see why they'd do anything other than rebrand and stop paying licenses
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's brother fwiw similar
mp_en_viaje: bane of my fucking existence, the leds. twenty years ago i could safely go on greyhound trip around. not anymore -- every two bit blue collar driver thinks the best way to improve his life is add some 10 cent uv leds randomly aroundm.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, the mutantism is that i apparently see like parrots, ie, well into uv spectrum.
asciilifeform is not a professional colorizer, but has done this kinda thing before, and knows the obvious rakes that get stepped on
asciilifeform: no yellows, lol, they give headache
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, a weaker case of deuteranomaly than there displayed with an even weaker case of protanomaly.
asciilifeform: aite then
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 20:08 asciilifeform gently prods mp_en_viaje , the 1 fella i know to have mutant eye
asciilifeform: funnily enuff they're ~still~ shipping it.
asciilifeform: not quite ~this~, naturally, but -- interacted. idjit sovok brass could've, e.g., left usg 100% without titanium any day of the week. ( but didn't , just had to have that delish usd.. )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: whole huawei episode seems rather like a replay of the 1980s 'ohnoez, mustn't sell pdp11 to warsaw pact' lulz
BingoBoingo: In other news, there was a general strike for a few hours today. Other than parade fucking with traffic the impact was ~0
BingoBoingo: The question is how long will it take the white worms to realize their "license" revenue isn't going to keep them fat anymore
BingoBoingo: Note ARM can't stop shipping chips because they can't fab.
asciilifeform: 'They’re not going to be able to easily replace these parts with new, in-house designs - the semiconductor industry in China is nascent.' << rly nao
BingoBoingo: I dunno if the "US sanctions" wank is going to survive 2025
asciilifeform: 'The ban also appeared to apply to ARM China, the China-based company in which ARM Holdings owns a 49% stake' << lol!
lobbes: As it stands I have two full pages of hand-written notes with various c and apache-stack likbez, and that was just so I could understand up to line 152 of https://github.com/mbattyani/mod_lisp/blob/master/mod_lisp2.c (only 900 or so lines left to eat). I most likely will publish these notes as a blog post once all is said and done
lobbes: http://www.thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html#selection-197.31-205.258 << I wager there's a good chance you'll publish a genesis of tbnl/hunchentoot before I eat through mod_lisp, but I agree: as pieces emerge, we can sync up, regrind as needed, etc.
asciilifeform: lobbes: i randomly pulled it off the net. at one time i had a lcd with built-in one, but sadly retired it coupla yrs ago
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 19:13 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915196 << if it helps you any, imo (as well as in the opinion of ~all successful merchants of the original most serene republic, along with ALL other successful merchants, up to and including the phanarioti Ἰωάννης Γεώργιος Καρατζάς), "saving" is a misnomer. you may expend a ~SMALL~ fraction of your income. not save a small fraction thereof. living on 1-2-3% of what you make, aged 20 to 30
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915203 << this does help, ty. And I guess at the root of it all is http://trilema.com/2013/regarding-money/#selection-107.66-107.411, of which a takeaway may be "don't render yourself lame"..
asciilifeform: ( hey mp_en_viaje , which 1 of the knob settings in e.g. https://www.color-blindness.com/coblis-color-blindness-simulator/ were you ? )
asciilifeform: the colours, note, are not strictly decorative, idea is that they will slightly make easier the job of reader in estimating the cpu cost ( and following the control flow ) of a given proggy
asciilifeform gently prods mp_en_viaje , the 1 fella i know to have mutant eye
asciilifeform: if anyone really loathes the given colours, nao is the time to speak, i'd prefer not to change these going forward.
asciilifeform: summary of colours: O(bitness) (i.e. the cheapest) ops are marked in green; super-linear but subquadratic ops (e.g. *, S) -- brown; the most expensive ops (e.g. MX), and ones with potentially 'infinite' cost (e.g. ?) , red; ops which affect control flow ( : , various Q ) are inverted-red ; ops which affect registers -- purple; constants - black; function defs/invocations -- blue/reverseblue respectively. errything else i think self-e
asciilifeform: ( for nitpickers : the last comment is a lie, screenshit is from uncorrected ancient draft )
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 19:39 asciilifeform: in other noose, finally fucking 100% correct peh colourizer (coded by O(...) runtime of command) etc.
asciilifeform: in other noose, finally fucking 100% correct peh colourizer (coded by O(...) runtime of command) etc.
asciilifeform: i look at his site erry coupla months. e.g. curious whether anyone bought his gold-plated fg.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( incidentally, given as there's a pete_dushenski thread in there -- loox like his www has been stone-dead for coupla wks nao ) << It recently started loading for me again
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje had a piece re how 'not even beelzebub can save the passive from the active' or how did it go.
a111: Logged on 2015-09-07 04:00 mircea_popescu: in the 50s a bank CLERK lived in roughly what alf thinks palatial.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 22:19 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: guess what else they taught in ameri-hs (e.g. 'if you put in 100 $ , yr later can have 105' , and other meanwhile-retracted 'communism by 1980' promiseisms )
asciilifeform: there was a time when plebe could 'compound' for 30+yrs , and leave a small fortune that buys a http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-07#1265005 for each of 3 sons. but this was a historical anomaly imho.
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, given as there's a pete_dushenski thread in there -- loox like his www has been stone-dead for coupla wks nao )
mp_en_viaje: , is the ticket.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 19:08 lobbes: Long-story short, I woke up one morning and came to the realization that I have not been saving and am headed towards ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1875979; panicked, etc. Then I cooled it for a second and continued reading, came across http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-19#1914702 and realized that me running to xyz without any idea of what I'd *do* is not any better than what I'm doing now.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915196 << if it helps you any, imo (as well as in the opinion of ~all successful merchants of the original most serene republic, along with ALL other successful merchants, up to and including the phanarioti Ἰωάννης Γεώργιος Καρατζάς), "saving" is a misnomer. you may expend a ~SMALL~ fraction of your income. not save a small fraction thereof. living on 1-2-3% of what you make, aged 20 to 30
a111: Logged on 2019-05-19 05:46 mp_en_viaje: this is the cornerstone of survival : the adversative relationship. as long as you know you're there to steal, you measure how much you steal, and you get out on some sort of time horizon, you may survive.
lobbes: Whether I like it or not, I am currently in a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-19#1914704 situation. Problem is that while I have been measuring, I have not been stealing enough nor have I set any time horizon for escape. It is now clear to me that I must remedy this before I can really do anything else.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-16 03:30 mircea_popescu: this should be approached rather thjan fled from
a111: Logged on 2018-11-29 17:10 Mocky: in truth i do feel like idjit for being old man without the brains to have saved anything. i don't even have a workshop full of shit like asciilifeform
lobbes: Long-story short, I woke up one morning and came to the realization that I have not been saving and am headed towards ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1875979; panicked, etc. Then I cooled it for a second and continued reading, came across http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-19#1914702 and realized that me running to xyz without any idea of what I'd *do* is not any better than what I'm doing now.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-19 22:17 BingoBoingo to the blogging desk to assemble more Uruguay perspectives with lobbes and whaack showing interest in visiting the place.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-19#1914718 << I will definitely read, and am still interested in eventually visiting. Though I will say after reading the various threads re:escape from last week I have a lot more clarity on wtf I should be doing in the shorter-term. I may have to wait a bit before a Uruguay trip
mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2018/lets-read-together-uncle-al-schwartz-hexadecimal-dependency/#selection-41.1-45.1
asciilifeform: if they're art experts, i'ma have to take mp_en_viaje's word, asciilifeform is not equipped to evaluate 'world class'
mp_en_viaje: if it were the case, then there'd be no such things as the doctor-turned-art-critic etc.
asciilifeform: the idea that it matters what happens to 6yo in the wild. entirely possib that all the interesting dice were rolled long before kid can even speak.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: indeed, and afaik to the point where the rest seems like hardly necessary hypothesis
mp_en_viaje: then successive steps change the situation, what was chosen before is both more likely to "work" (as the kid has re-defined working) and to be chosen.
asciilifeform: somehow, where the 9000 children and trainer with heavy spiked club, and reduced element of chance to the strictly biological, still 1-2 champs and not 9000.
mp_en_viaje: i'd say which is chance. step 1 of the markov process, even balanced, why not. for all the diff it makes, might as well be.
mp_en_viaje: something happens, right ? kid's gotta do something, not outwardly, but inwardly. put a label on the newly acquired sack of chaos. which label does his mind's hand reach for ?
mp_en_viaje: brain of kid ~is~ infinitely plastic, in the simple sense that kid who tries avoidant and keeps trying avoidant will grow up to be an excellent goth, whose poetry nobody understands ; had it tried opposite strategy would have been EQUALLY excellent cheerleader, whose sluttiness nobody understands.
asciilifeform: if brain of kid was infinitely plastic, as implied in the 'no such thing as talent' item, sovok would have eaten the 'civilized' world for lunch, like the neanderthals are thought to have been eaten by modern man. but for some reason nodice.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i'm saying that the guy who is within the top 1% mathematicians could also have been within the top 0.5-2% historians, dancers or public women, and that what exact words you use don't matter, because much before any substantial skill or craft there's the 5yo's set of choices.
mp_en_viaje: ~anything you want~. part of the saving grace of the ustardian formulation is that 6yos generally don't seek sex, etc. people tend to want things they can represent.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: you mean as a direct application of the previous one gets better at same rate no matter what choice they make?
asciilifeform: sovok was the ultimate test ground for this notion. take 9000 childrens and force'em from age 4 to chess, ballet, etc. and found that indeed from 1000, 1-2 will perform on world class. but certainly at no point was there 'erry child' delusion entertained.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, there's a group of people / cult that keep pushing this angle whereby kids can learn any skill or trade they want, and all that bla bla. there is ~some~ empirical support for their theory, tjough not nearly as much as they like to pretend.
mp_en_viaje: i have like dozen+ articles dealing with the converse strategy, all them fetlife lulz etc, you know. i'm fair and balanced!
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: do this clearly defined X here; something defined externally to the subject since "you can do anything" aka nothing to do with "you" as there is no difference between one you or another
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 14:39 mp_en_viaje: but at the root of the becoming, in those who do become something, is the problem of perceived vulnerability. there's no such thing as "introvert" or "extrovert", simply, some kids are afraid, and thus seek outside ; some kids are too dumb to be afraid, and thus spend a lot of time in intricacy.
diana_coman: except what is achievable is always a matter of what one can+has to pay for the achievement rather than the "worth" of the achievement so that worth 50 points total sounds dubious; sure, you can make progress in any direction you choose but that's about it
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 14:35 mp_en_viaje: he is the sort of guy who doesn't fuck a lot of women, doesn't speak a lot of languages, doesn't like reading things he doesn't know how to interpret and spends a lot of time fucking intricately with garbage.
a111: Logged on 2013-04-26 20:53 truffles: im focused on other times so its not a big deal
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje's hypothesis, like other 'freudisms', is 1 of those 'simple and clean' items that stands for just so long as you throw out the contradictory inputs. e.g. folx like that same newton, heaviside, tesla, etc who in so far as anyone knows, couldn't even get their cocks to stand on demand, yet still somehow added up to something, despite not fitting mp_en_viaje's [conception of ubermensch][http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915
asciilifeform: simply variant of soy sausage. 'you can [pretend to self] to do anything' is elementarily true. doesn't have much to do with the q of who can or cannot ~factually~ do sumthing.
mp_en_viaje: also explains the empirical support (such as it is) of the "you can do anything" crowd.
diana_coman files this under the "I don't yet know what it is; work in progress."
diana_coman: myeah, but that was I thought the starting point of the "differences" precisely that the requirements on the subject's mind are different i.e. that it's not just a matter of overall flexibility of the mind or whatevers but rather some more specific characteristics
mp_en_viaje: take this woman -- she "moved" from bethesda, md to ashton heights, va, to die. before that, from ellicott to bethesda, to "work" (from "govt" to "public sector"). before that she lived in urbana, went to school. neither intelligence nor personality are to any degree involved -- she just did what she knew how to do.
diana_coman: or coming at it from the other side that those choices (deny meaning of objective or pretend subjective has meaning to keep it within the model) do not have any significant difference of requirements
asciilifeform: ( there was a fascinating film clip i once saw, where raccoon was shot in the spine, in such a way that only bottom half paralyzed; and he happily attempted to eat own spilled guts. i could not help but remember rms and his 'toe jam'... )
mp_en_viaje: in other lulz, Teresa H. Shea, last mentioned in 2014 (for siphoning usg money through husban's inqtel) now "working" for raytheon.
diana_coman: hm, you are basically saying that there is only a... quality/speed of learning of the individual that applies equally to any choice they make i.e. there is no difference more specific than that?
asciilifeform: incidentally the smarts and persistence of raccoon , i suspect , are much overblown. at 1 time i had two traps set next to 1 another, and 4 out of 5 specimens ended up springing ~both~, 1 with each hand
mp_en_viaje: though in general, the same individual would get better at any strategy they'd happen to pick at ~same rate.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, agreed, not at the same rate.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: hm, the "personality/intelligence" part was to my mind related to *how much better does one get at x strategy if they pick it once vs at y strategy if they pick it once" i.e. sure, everyone gets better at whatever they pick but not at the same rate
asciilifeform: housefly even better 'scientist' them, can buzz in glass jar for days after mouse expires
mp_en_viaje: kinda how the whole theory ended up even stated, by pulling on "why" thread of that prediction.
asciilifeform: erryone is walking around with 'sense of invulnerability' in this sense tho. incl. the squirrel crossing road.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 14:32 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, seems unlikely. the sort of fellow never surrenders, there's this deeply inborn sentiment of invulnerability burning deep in the technomoron. more likely, they're taking it as a "challenge accepted", came up with who knows what ratty, nigger-rigged paliatives.
asciilifeform: there aint necessarily 'problem'. the described theory doesn't immediately contradict observables. but where predictive ?
mp_en_viaje: i somehow fail to see the problem.
mp_en_viaje: in order to learn a foreign language, you must first and foremost lie to yourself : by pretending others can make sense to you.
mp_en_viaje: 5. the strategies in question are few enough to be readily enumerable ; 6. chief among them, the strategy in dealing with the subjective-objective disparity : either deny the meaning of the objective (which is how you get "scientists") or else pretend subjectivity is meaningful (which is how you get "scholars").
mp_en_viaje: 3. there is no such thing as "a personality" ; 4. what passes for any individual human's personality is the result of a markov process : certain strategies, once made, increase the choosers' skill, thereby increasing the probability of the same strategies being deployed in the future. thus, properly speaking, a list of strategy-skilllevel would completely describe (in the sense of predictability) the individual
mp_en_viaje: 1. there is no such thing as intelligence ; 2. the humanities-divinities divide, however redefined (whether you call divinities "natural sciences" or "peri-physeios" or "stem" or whatever else) do not translate a difference in degree of brain function, but merely different patterns of behaviour ;
diana_coman: I suppose I don't grok what the equivalent of the heliocentric system is here, precisely.
mp_en_viaje: i dunno it gets mired in anything ; obviously if one uses copernican model to discuss ptolemaic astronomy one will end up with a lot of ptolemaic astronomy discussion. doesn't invalidate the heliocentric system tho.
diana_coman: as with the deciding factor for young researcher's lifetime: it is even true for current "research" , sure but...
diana_coman: it seems to me that it all gets mired into the current use of "personality" and "stem" and "introvert" to mean nothing at all/anything that is convenient; essentially I don't think they are what is currently claimed (intelligent -> stem!!! or whatever other nonsense) but I don't think that there is nothing real otherwise, either (rather: I don't know).
mp_en_viaje: anyway, kid picks one, gets better at it, keeps picking it again and again and there you go, "personality"
diana_coman: among other piles of nonsense, I've heard this one too, yess
mp_en_viaje: yes, in and of themselves, of course they are. all natural numbers are equally natural as such. just, nobody tends to ever pick 11103048503480534588333
mp_en_viaje: you familiar with the theory saying that the one deciding factor of a young researcher's lifetime field of study is "what provides results first" ?
diana_coman: yes, but both choices are as natural as they get
diana_coman: so the afraid divide would be this sort of technicality? it's not that some are afraid so seek outside while others are too dumb to be afraid and focus on intricacy but rather that both are afraid but some deal with it by different pretending?
mp_en_viaje: technically you could say the negative statement requires less bearness to manufacture.
mp_en_viaje: well, it's a misstated question, "who's the more bear-aware, he who says there's no bear or he who says that bear's a cat"
diana_coman: quite; part of why I don't get it: the former examtake so it's not like they are actually any more reality-anchored as far as I can see
mp_en_viaje: they have comparable nuptiality rates anyway
mp_en_viaje: not really, nobody's manageable, the former examtake.
diana_coman: i.e. this bunch will do as told, this bunch won't do as told? are they manageable or aren't they?
mp_en_viaje: well, you distinguish by prediction. "this bunch of lawyers will 100% change their behaviour on the slightest whiff of '''guidance''' ; this bunch of engineers will NEVER change their behaviour, no matter the fuck what happens".
diana_coman: not even sure how exactly do you distinguish between the two; this pile of X is more important than me; sure, X might be garbage but then perhaps obvious only later.
diana_coman: because no, there is certainly no correlation "maths -> introverts" or any such nonsense
diana_coman: I suspect there is, but - as usual, I should say - not what it's nowadays "meant" by the terms; pretty much the usual capture-words-and-rend-them-meaningless as with love and everything else; a misnomer at best.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i did say " there's no such thing as "introvert" or "extrovert"" as my only reference to the terms.
diana_coman: and no, nothing to do with intelligence either, sure
mp_en_viaje: intelligence has naight to do with this, however defined (leaving aside how it can't be defined) ; this divide correlates better with reals/humanities than any other.
mp_en_viaje: while walking down the street, walk up to someone coming the other way and suddenly slap them hard. some will cry, some will yell.
mp_en_viaje: walk into a packed metro train, pull out a machine gun, hold everyone hostage for a few hours. at the end of the hours, some people in there will know everyone's names, and some other people there will know how many of everythings there were -- windows, cig butts on the floor, etc.
diana_coman: well ok, how do you distinguish then?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 14:39 mp_en_viaje: but at the root of the becoming, in those who do become something, is the problem of perceived vulnerability. there's no such thing as "introvert" or "extrovert", simply, some kids are afraid, and thus seek outside ; some kids are too dumb to be afraid, and thus spend a lot of time in intricacy.
mp_en_viaje: but to bring this full circle -- the stockpiling fellows did not burn their stash, irrespective of what happened, what they were told happened, etc, because, fundamentally, they do not think reality applies to them. because if they had thought that, they'd never have been in their current position -- not for 20 years, not for 20 weeks, in point of fact not even for a week of their schooling. aged 5 they'd have opted off this path.
asciilifeform: in this scheme, recall the lulzdetails of how (in actuality, not his 'retcon') solzhenitsin ended up on all-expenses vacation
mp_en_viaje: i'm not, after all, saying whether the invulnerability delusion's reality-adequate or reality-inadequate. like all illusions, it proceeds irrespective of such considerations.
mp_en_viaje: you will definitely notice how my vulnerability/invulnerability divide well underscores, both the situation of zee invaders (why did they invade ?) and of the invaded.
asciilifeform: rome -- a++ soldiering. 'while supplies lasted' (of easy pickings.) but will note that central event of 20th c was that time when ~all of europistan went to go soldierin' , to get their 'land and young cunt serfs', and instead of lands and serfs ended up having arse handed to'em by ploughsmen , and went home to rebuild berlin, budapest, etc with 1 hand and 1 leg while learning to recite marx and lenin in translation
mp_en_viaje: though admittedly most soldiers don't know what to ask of the cunts.
mp_en_viaje: judging by the recent charlie sheen lulz, still going now.
mp_en_viaje: long time. they were still doing it during venice (note that at the time merchant was how you said soldier)
asciilifeform: soldier sometimes get home. ( in old ru empire -- after 20ys . ) then -- back to plough
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 14:05 stjohn_piano_2: 3) there may be an approach to signed comments that does not involve the primary key: examples: a) sign with a subordinate key b) validate your current IP for a time period (e.g. a month / year) by decrypting an OTP, like deedbot.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1914957 << understand the problem -- if someone wishes to sign something, they're probably making a deed, which they'll publish on their own castle walls and on the republican deedpost. they
mp_en_viaje: so yes, the kids that didn't make soldiers, made ploughsmen. often, the exact same kids.
mp_en_viaje: this is the glorybook of romanian history, "at some point in 1600, romanians suddenly and inexplicably stopped taking it up the ass, instead of 1ton of gold/year sent rape & pillage party to istanbul, got within 10 miles of city walls."
mp_en_viaje: quite -- the ones who didn't make soldiers.
asciilifeform: the same folx today 'go to engineer school' as became shoemakers in earlier times.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-18 22:29 asciilifeform: '... what was once dedication is replaced by greed and sometimes sheer need as the motivation to enter the field.'
mp_en_viaje: and yes, the welfare state has produced a lot of really dumb engineers, through the simple process of making a lot of parents comfortable. their kids become engineers not because anything to do with either engineering or intelligence -- but simply because that's the sort of thing kids with an invulnerability delusion do.