BingoBoingo: I thought JCVD was supposed to keep these things from happening in Belgium because Action Movie!
assbot: Brussels airport: casualties reported after explosions – live updates | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1WEK0PK )
mats: oops... http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates
mats: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 00:16:30; asciilifeform: (the real question is why usg would ever admit to it - whole point of the charade was to build precedent-setting verdict. i suppose this outcome became in doubt, and whole thing was brought to what is intended as a quiet burial ?)
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437635 << They want a new test case. Dialectic continues.
ben_vulpes: motherfucking moving target
mats: a wasps nest could be good, however, i am not strong in the crafting arts
mats: (idea with prior is, folks see portrait, then coworker, wonder why a dead man is walking around)
mats: my best idea is to print a hi-res portrait of a coworker and put something like 'January 1985 to March 2016' at the bottom, then hide in the office somewhere
mircea_popescu: and we don't even have the fucking conceptual girder to even comprehend what the rationale'd be on (in terms of, what are the primitives)
asciilifeform: it was the rationale b000k that sold me on putting on the apocalyptic gas mask and doing ada at all.
mircea_popescu: and we won't even fucking know the standard is anything but elaborate cumcake until the rationale part stands up.
mircea_popescu: it needs the fucking standard AND RATIONALE book.
mircea_popescu: did everyone see the funarg funerales argentinos thing ?
mod6: right, they said something about C/C++/et.al that have a loop construct such as 'do/while' 'for' 'foreach' etc, as a defect in the lang. lol
asciilifeform: but not, for the most part, anywhere else
mod6: is tail recursion always defined such that there are O(n) steps in O(1) space?
mod6: yeah, flipping through the book -- it's pretty dense.
asciilifeform: (the ~actual~ canon is the standard and rationale books, but they are painful to learn from when n00b)
asciilifeform: i have the 2012 ed.
asciilifeform: the canonical text is by one barnes
mod6: eh, im sure if i get the hang of its conventions, etc., i'll get somehow masochistically into it.
mod6: i've bee working my way though all the examples in sicp
asciilifeform: i can almost guarantee you won't like ada then.
asciilifeform: (su, afaik, never took it up, but pascal was strong there)
mod6: yeah, i'd seen the name before, but never heard anything about it until you were talkin about it. now it interests me because bitcoin needs to work better than a goddamn 777
asciilifeform: it is a very painful thing, to work in. to the point that as early as the first months folks made jokes that it was a ploy to bog down soviet research establishment, plan being that they would copy it and grind to a halt !
asciilifeform: sorta why i unearthed it.
mod6: sounds like the right idea
mod6: kill or maim, Ada is the correct choice.
mod6: If the software must absolutely work wit
mod6: thanks for the pointer asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: like 60k of the things.
mircea_popescu: in other crazy news, i just popped (ie, got a major loot) in eulora. 1+ bitcent's worth of brave man's nosehairs.
mircea_popescu: go, tell three year old that the sky isn't a thing, pristina rosa, all that.
mircea_popescu: the child wanted to know "why sky".
mircea_popescu: much long ago, when chet was a young woman, with children like many here she tried to prepare herself, like many here try. so she had an answer all ready for the eventual inevitable moment her oldest was going to inquire why the sky is blue.
mircea_popescu: o wait, your brother ?
asciilifeform: somehow the notion entered my head that this was possible
asciilifeform: i begged my elder brother to give me, somehow, some ~numbers~
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's story re wanting the jewels reminds me of mine
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> now i want to find the cartoon! and watch. << http://documents.tips/documents/carte-balaica-si-bobocel.html
asciilifeform: the latest twist suggests this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> trinque: idea was to play stupid & set judicial precedent in favour of arbitrary do-what-we-say orders << i think trinque is much closer to the facts of the field. beast doth not know what it wants not merely for the provable impossibility of such a want, but mostly for absence of a want organ.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> phf: you may have been thinking of bash.org ? << i don't think he is and i have a vague recollection of this from the very early 2000s that i also can't place
asciilifeform: aha i found the thread
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs << you will find these useful, i did
asciilifeform: i'd like the badly unresolved eq on mine tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i once met a young girl who thought she is no good with math. she was creative you see, and on her grave was to be inscribed a vintage purse rather than a badly unresolved equation.
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2013/me-aged-5 << got this in trilemarandom and it is mega-lulzy. now i want to find the cartoon! and watch.
asciilifeform: i esp. like the footer.
phf: asciilifeform: so i actually made an effort to go through my notes and found it immediately, http://2lmc.org/spool/. they nuked their entire log and just one static page remains, hmm
asciilifeform: trinque: and also to make some noise, and give the 'aspiring terrorists should buy crapple devices!' honeytrap a boost
phf: asciilifeform: nah, was actual blog, i started reading it when it had coherent topical posts, but studying their history, it started as snippets and gradually acquired features. like early posts were straight up logs, later names were stripped and only text from "posters" retained, etc.
trinque: incoherent that they ever made a public fight of it
asciilifeform: and so can 10,000,001 other folks
asciilifeform: trinque: no incoherence, i can remove the motherfucking nand ~here~ in this godforsaken hovel
trinque: absent that I have to assume sheer incoherence on the part of hitler
asciilifeform: trinque: nowhere in what crapple sells is there to be found anything posing so much as a temporary annoyance to hitler.
asciilifeform: trinque: how does a finger muppet 'privately' do anything to another finger muppet on the same glove ?
trinque: asciilifeform: perhaps usg's threat is they will shame Apple in public unless they privately bend over more obediently
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and yes i am an arse! with no social graces! but my aspiration is that when i finally go to the woodchipper, folks will remember the pile of dead nazis, and not how i was arse.
trinque: I'm nearly done with my deedbot- rewrite; I could add this as well. deed the list of tags per $interval or something
phf: there was a blog in the early days of medium, that was basically snippets from irc conversations. my impression was that the display software was gradually hacked into turning out increasingly cleaner posts through various in-channel annotations, like ;tag, ;post, etc. there was significant amount of editorializing though. so someone was responsible, at the end of the thread, to turn it into a post. we kind of have that adhoc, and md
asciilifeform: hanbot: to clarify, i meant that i cannot presume to speak for other people, esp. ones who i have not interacted with at great length
mircea_popescu: no, i'm not. i noticed it then, and was deeply surprised she was even considering doing anything ; not surprised in the end result.
hanbot: mircea_popescu you know that line gave me pause at the time, but i figured he was entertaining the noisebox so what do i know what he's answering to. all in all though, pretty odd.
asciilifeform finally grasps that mircea_popescu is going through the miserable l0gz
phf: prometheus was appropriately punished for his infraction, but little good that did
mircea_popescu: well it's good i said something then. anyway.
mircea_popescu: i was of the notion you two had previously met.
mircea_popescu: the all-permeating smell of the young male, eh ? supposedly the world is built on these, you know.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 07:43:11; mircea_popescu: hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ?
hanbot: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437059 << that sounds like the most sane solution on tap for efficiency & accuracy both. and honestly...crawling back through the last coupla weeks' logs to study this i couldn't really be paid. much as i'd like to lend some time to folks actually doing good work, this place is reeking rotten already.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the ~only way such an attempt ends up is into a f-35, sooner or later.
asciilifeform: (the real question is why usg would ever admit to it - whole point of the charade was to build precedent-setting verdict. i suppose this outcome became in doubt, and whole thing was brought to what is intended as a quiet burial ?)
mircea_popescu: phf there's no need to lean or anything ; but the fact remains that if you're unhappy with the way in which fights between toddlers and adults are coming out, giving the toddlers fancier rifles is not likely to do much.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437589 << l0l, mcafee finally desoldered the nand for them? or one of the other 10,001 folks who offered.
phf: <mircea_popescu> [20:02:06] i am currently of the " ' technology won't be solving human problems ' has been deeply abused and is taking its pound of flesh" school of thought. << i failed to parse, you saying "technology won't solve" has been overused, and there's need to lean in opposite direction?
mircea_popescu: i am currently of the " ' technology won't be solving human problems ' has been deeply abused and is taking its pound of flesh" school of thought.
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu is presently in the 'nothing to be gained from machine-readable encodings of signature meanings' school of thought ?
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 23:50:23; mircea_popescu: for the record, and to revisit that old definition of "public" ie the forum vs "private" ie the gynacaeum, something is public when it has what has been here referred to as a "real" part. ie, when it is possible to make a definition for it that is meaningful for everyone.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437604 << this is ~exactly~ what i was aiming at with 'v algebra' thing, to see if it is possible to expand the 'real part' of signature.
asciilifeform: which is why the gossip model of wot is the correct one, where there is no attempt at global/'canonical' state, but only a series of questions, which folks may choose to answer - or not - depending on who asks.
asciilifeform: who the fuck knows what so-and-so's ratings ~really~ meant, but him and his inner circle (if that)
asciilifeform: but the thing about 'may as well not be visible' is dead on
asciilifeform: well signature comes with a mechanical algo for verification; everything beyond that is 'promise', rather than protocol
mircea_popescu: a model mirrored in the itnended design of gossipd.
mircea_popescu: the wot is eminently private and so deeply irreducible to public that it doesn't even matter it is publicly visible
mircea_popescu: for the record, and to revisit that old definition of "public" ie the forum vs "private" ie the gynacaeum, something is public when it has what has been here referred to as a "real" part. ie, when it is possible to make a definition for it that is meaningful for everyone.
mircea_popescu: wot is not supporting of a single notion of identity. what x signature is varies irreconcillably among the users, by design and deliberately.
asciilifeform: i thought whole point of wot was to a) bare your chest to the knife and b) to even have a chest
mircea_popescu: it's stress syndrome already, lifeforms fully aware they live in shit. "i'ma make myself a house!"
mircea_popescu: FUCK every pissant proggy getting to have its own miniature version of the microshit winblowz 'registry'. << so true this.
mircea_popescu: the wot is not related to this discussion.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 23:11:33; mircea_popescu: in a different restatement, people "willing to take responsibility for their actions" only has an imaginary part, and no real part ; for the necessary reason that responsibility can not be defined coherently in the real space.
mircea_popescu: terrorists have iphones ? the weird world.
mircea_popescu: in a different restatement, people "willing to take responsibility for their actions" only has an imaginary part, and no real part ; for the necessary reason that responsibility can not be defined coherently in the real space.
mircea_popescu: ematics is known as a pole. attempts to create a netherworld between the sharply divergent f(x) and f(x+e) is what i've recently discovered - through the usual stepping on research process - to be a landmine.
mircea_popescu: mod6 << i think so too. but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. << there is no possible division between "punishment" no matter how defined and trust in any reasonable sense. either what you say matters, in which case the world rapidly evolves towards "too hard for peoeple, who just want to..." or what you say doesn't matter, in which case the world rapidly evolves towards welfare state. it is what in math
trinque puts pineapple on the end of broomstick, makes weapon
phf: i usually fail to come back to lists, but i think i've read most things recommended on b-a, the frequency is actually low enough that you can put things in a pile and catch up pretty fast
ben_vulpes: what is this automating of the mental reactor rods!?
ben_vulpes: what, people don't maintain their own list of books as suggested by the individuals in chan?
mod6: then maybe will be able to pitch in for adacoin
mod6: speaking of which... if we were still going to use scheme, long-term, i'd probably re-write my vtron in scheme -- if for no other reason, to learn it.
asciilifeform: i.e. to get to where i can just have the dos box.
phf: like if forced i could spend rest of life with a dos machine, can't say the same for os x 10.10, but that of course assumes that i somehow don't ever have to work, and in fact live in a "concent" for the rest of life
phf: i don't mean Emacs, but dos emacs is enough for the "i have text, i need to shape text into new text" tasks
asciilifeform: serious devs used turboc, or, in the very end days, watcom.
asciilifeform: and i don't think i will live long enough to fully exhaust the excellent gamez.
asciilifeform: this, and also most of the games ever made that imho were worth playing, were on it.
asciilifeform: mod6: mircea_popescu had a good article, iirc, on this. it was the last gasp of the 'my computer is mine and i know how it works' era.
mod6: where does the love come in?
asciilifeform: there are reasons why my first act re trb was to exterminate all compatibility with microshit
asciilifeform: phf: you can always tell the smell of microshit
trinque: as long as the filesystem in question lets me find things rapidly by searching over metadata, I will happily give up my black boxes of such
mod6: haha, what you hear the bell and you mentally think 'food' and you see food dish and think 'bell' ?
asciilifeform: FUCK every pissant proggy getting to have its own miniature version of the microshit winblowz 'registry'.
asciilifeform: and if it doesn't come in explicitly and deliberately through the command line or stdio, it doesn't belong in the input.
asciilifeform: trinque: motherfucking KEYRINGS arrggh
asciilifeform: davout: if using format of classic gpg, there is no way to uniquely specify 'this is vtronically signed'
asciilifeform: and anyway why are you relying on the exit code ?
trinque: it craps an error message, yes, but otherwise exit 0
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437476 <<< why's that retarded? kindof the first thing i thought about when reading your piece
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 20:48:01; mod6: I like the idea though. We just don't have the tools yet.
mod6: but since you're writing one... you could wrap that in there perhaps?
asciilifeform: there is no clean way to do it with classical gpg
mod6: asciilifeform: if the various bits for hands/eyes/heart/brain are not to be in anyway invovled with a signature, any thoughts on how we pass these around with the signature?
asciilifeform: though i considered, brifly, hijacking the high bits of the timestamp 32b field for it
asciilifeform: if i'm gonna depend on an antique, i'd rather take one that was made in qty 500,000,000 in 11 countries. than 10,000 in usa-only.
mod6: this is all implementation and theory.
mod6: phf: well, other than saying "interesting" and "cool", i couldn't figure out how to do that either. unless we create a vtron signature style in 'g' or is it 'p'? i cant recall.. cause how will someones vtron be able to pull the bit string out to know how to categorize someones seal?
mod6: we'll get there.
mod6: -connect is great for getting blocks from a trusted node, but you're only connected to just that node. so if there is some sort of blocking issue... you might get starved.
mod6: once fully sync'd pete_dushenski, make a back up your your block chain, and then use -addnode
asciilifeform: y'know, the ones with 0 docs
pete_dushenski: mod6: to two of the b-a nodes and one of my own
asciilifeform: mod6: you could fit 500 of them on a cheap fpga. but you will be using an AMERICAN FPGA
mod6: is it crazy to think that said chip you're talking about be re-constructed on a fpga, perhaps many of them on one fpga?
asciilifeform: and carry out certain other operations
asciilifeform: i once decided to determine the simplest box that could be assembled from readily-available (preferebly, sov-block) components, that could GENERATE and OPERATE a reasonable onetimepad.
asciilifeform: this, i must add, is not an official s.nsa project of any kind. but it is there on my desk with a dozen other items of 'parachute' variety
mod6: pete_dushenski: i didn't see anything crazy in there. runnign with -connect or -addnode?
asciilifeform: in other instances, there are anachronisms that create wholly unnecessary problems, e.g., tape and extinct disk systems
asciilifeform: they also contained various custom i/o, that is gnarly, of heavy incidental complexity, and - importantly - cannot be had in new production
asciilifeform: largely because - while they were indeed built on top of some excellent 8-bit cpu, most of which can still be had -
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: the weirder thing is that the stuck node is on the physical box i have, not either of the two vpses i have. and all are running 99997k or 99996k.
mod6: ya. this hardware scares the bahjeesus out of me.
asciilifeform: mod6: until then - to excavate.
asciilifeform: mod6: i am comfortable in the supposition that nsa cannot yet travel backwards in time.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: the most recent jam was at 403`396
mod6: asciilifeform: hm. im misremembering something. eitherway, outside of well, anywhere really, i can't think of a single place in the known universe where the nsa can't diddle your shit.
pete_dushenski: it's jammed twice in the last week now.
mod6: now i gotta dig something up on trilema. thought there was an article?
mod6: other than some otp
mod6: But my good man, a serious cornerstone / building block to sanity and in the direction of "workable" computer will come when your work is complete and I can get quality random numbers.
davout: asciilifeform: with tmsr~ spanning a few timezones, there's bound to always be someone with an open bottle
asciilifeform: am i the only one here right now who isn't sitting in a dark room with a bottle of vodka and loaded nagant ?
asciilifeform: !s the man who was thursday
asciilifeform: folks still gotta take the time to wash.
asciilifeform: whole point of the instrument is to ~make it possible for there to be such a thing as a Who~
mod6: I think if people can make punishment first, they will. cause no == yes && yes == anal.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437337 << the way i see it, the 'punishment' aspect of vtronics is secondary. the main thing is that ACTUAL PEOPLE, i.e. folks willing to ~take responsibility for their actions~, could find and recognize each other. << i think so too. but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
asciilifeform: i actually considered this, in the beginning.
mod6: maybe having different keys (key certifing "i read this" [eyes] / "I wrote this" [hands] / ... etc.) is an analog for the polyphase system that replaced it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437337 << the way i see it, the 'punishment' aspect of vtronics is secondary. the main thing is that ACTUAL PEOPLE, i.e. folks willing to ~take responsibility for their actions~, could find and recognize each other.
asciilifeform: in the same sense that, e.g., edison, half-solved electric grid distribution
asciilifeform: i keep getting the feeling that we only half-solved vtronics
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 19:49:37; mircea_popescu: yeah, sure, not a difficult one for as long as one lives on imaginary half mil a year and theorizes away. in practice, it will not be seen, nor has it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437334 << the distance from workable theory to cold iron here is quite short, and eminently bridgeable. if we had the usable theory. which is a problem i was taking a stab at.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 19:48:46; mircea_popescu: and, importantly, if it WERE to fail, how would we resolve the problem if it is or it isn't your fault.
mircea_popescu: not like the actual malibu dwellers are coerced to live in the vinyl sidings abominations. meeting of the minds.
mircea_popescu: the one problematic part is that stilts or no stilts, the product is actually very well adapted to the market it serves.
mod6: its like a house in malibu, built on stilts, on the side of a hill that mud slides after .25" of rain.
mod6: anyway, sorry for the rant. but it is not lost on me how hosed up "computer land" is these days.
mod6: is the 6502 those cocaine looking packages you got?
mod6: but until we all have shit that doesn't suck... we're kinda just waiting until it doens't suck. in the context of blame and "i don't have to /hope/ this thing works, I know mod6 said it does, ergo, it works."
mod6: well, maybe alf is farther along on this journey than anyone had thought. and maybe "sucks" is only very temporary.
asciilifeform: but you already have, chances are, a 6502 micro somewhere in the cellar.
mod6: until we have computers, and i mean "have computers" in the sense that alf would be happy to say he has a "comptuer", whatever that means.
mircea_popescu: and moreover, even with the best of intentions, the defense of the group is expensive and arduous, and everyone's got better shit to do.
nubbins`: asciilifeform this also opens up the option for interesting filters, e.g. no need to display "heart" field if "brain" is 00, etc
mircea_popescu: yeah, sure, not a difficult one for as long as one lives on imaginary half mil a year and theorizes away. in practice, it will not be seen, nor has it.
asciilifeform: imho the concept of taking responsibility for ~the material you wrote~ is not a difficult one
mircea_popescu: and, importantly, if it WERE to fail, how would we resolve the problem if it is or it isn't your fault.
mod6: mircea_popescu: well, indeed. i mean, i can "swear and affirm" that my code won't fail you, but really, I can't be certain one way or another. too many variables.
mircea_popescu: mod6 in any case, the idea of responsibility in software is a lot more difficult to implement than previously hoped.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since you caqn't stop talking to them.
mircea_popescu: basically giving the day to the usual obamas with simple ideas and an insistence to repeat their nonsense.
mircea_popescu: moreover, the issue of "it's kernel's fault" "no dude is program's fault" requires very complex analysis most people are unable to engage in, and in any case unable to finance even if they could somehow engage in it
mod6: we're all just rolling the dice.
asciilifeform: ~this~ being specifically the this that you wrote.
mircea_popescu: mod6 that is the crux of the problem. there is no such thing as separatability in software anyway.
mod6: but "i swear this werks!!", then someone runs your shit and it ~should~ work, but doesn't because of unforseen hardware, or configuration or cosmic rays.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> well, the implicit 'i swear with my life to this' - leaves me reluctant to sign anything i did not write 100% of << and who's to say, even if you wrote everything at one layer, that something doesn't fuck you in the butt from a layer below? we don't have computers. never did.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: because there is a very real problem.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i invite you to comment on my post, possibly suggest a cleaner solution to the problem ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho single-bit scalar pgp is rather like car with sole control being a gas pedal.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> right now, i expect to sign something half-baked that then crashes on some dirigible and gets me excommunicated << this is a very cogent point ; and i feel rather the same way.
nubbins`: went to fight a parking ticket today, the crown had no evidence and the cop who wrote the ticket didn't show up
jurov: thestringpuller: "complex vector space" sounds like fitting description of human attitude toward the matter being signed
thestringpuller: "In mathematical field of representation theory, a quaternionic representation is a representation on a complex vector space V with an invariant quaternionic structure"
ben_vulpes: "this may contain pernicious hdd-wrecking nasties i'm unaware of, but is the closest thing to a bitcoinator i know of"?
asciilifeform: see there we go
ben_vulpes: i was even uncomfortable signing the genesis vpatch. what does that even mean -- "this is actually some variant of satoshi's hairball"?
thestringpuller: so what else is there? linear? parabolic?
asciilifeform: no, there is more than one dimension.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: scalar is mega-inadequate.
ben_vulpes: there is, so far, no "this sucks, but it introduces no new lies" bit.
ben_vulpes: right now, i expect to sign something half-baked that then crashes on some dirigible and gets me excommunicated
asciilifeform: see there we have it.
asciilifeform: in the sense that it leaves no serious perma-record.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've been waiting for the "what does a signature convey" conversation to sign anything.
asciilifeform: well, the implicit 'i swear with my life to this' - leaves me reluctant to sign anything i did not write 100% of
asciilifeform: there was this notion that folks might read old stuff and sign a subset
trinque: I can see the pragmatism of it
asciilifeform: and i'm not trying to be an arse to folks re: signing, but would like to know some of the ~reasons~ things aren't getting signed
asciilifeform: mod6: definitely there are some i did not sign, i listed one earlier
mod6: jurov: your mempool work was important. reading the vpatches and the ml and the SoBA is important too -- and iirc doesn't take that long to get through most of them at this point
mod6: further, all other vpatches are signed by me and me and you. there are some you haven't signed either.
jurov: maybe i should have been reading and signing patches instead of doing the mempool abortion
jurov: i consider whole trb thing as something that demands my full attention, and there's always something more urgent to do...
asciilifeform: so what should i conclude, that no one bothered to read ? to sign ? or that folks had reservations? which is it.
asciilifeform: and this is a patch without which trb is ~dead in the water~
asciilifeform: NOBODY ELSE bothered ?!
asciilifeform: but there was no way to express this vtronically.
asciilifeform: nor do i have the stomach to sign v-genesis of ancient stuff, i struggled with the decision of whether to sign tinyscheme
asciilifeform: and the all-or-nothing factor, i think, is part of it.
asciilifeform: likewise it is possible to sign other folks' patches today. yet not so many of us are doing it.