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ben_vulpes: .net jokes
ben_vulpes: and in the general case, no.
ben_vulpes: which SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE omg
ben_vulpes: for what its worth emacs' eww was the most reliable tool for finding wacky line endings
ben_vulpes: yes asciilifeform telnet let's go
ben_vulpes: have fun
ben_vulpes: i couldn't rule out curl hosing my experiments, mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes: ahuehuaheauhuaehu
ben_vulpes: for as long as archive.is continues to be a thing.
ben_vulpes: wall scribblings meant for the ages should to into deedbot-, no?
ben_vulpes: seawater*
ben_vulpes: this is an argument for filtering the seawter for gold.
ben_vulpes: you can get it to do up to a year
ben_vulpes: notbad no
ben_vulpes: more state, huh?
ben_vulpes: ah no. nm. all my dumb ass.
ben_vulpes: it appears
ben_vulpes: (which itself a magical hellhole of stupidity)
ben_vulpes: --with-colons
ben_vulpes: fingerprint.
ben_vulpes: oh ffs whose idea was it to migrate from 'fpr' to something else in gnupg 2?
ben_vulpes: well don't get in the habit of failing to cite sources.
ben_vulpes: did you include a link to my version of the same piece that you wrote?
ben_vulpes: i saw material factual mistakes and kinda checked out.
ben_vulpes: oh it /was/ in there the first time?
ben_vulpes: well ofc
ben_vulpes: mostly to dismiss my own hypotheses
ben_vulpes: i'd love to hear how he got the mysterious, yes phriendz, rolled in.
ben_vulpes: anyways, the point remains. mircea_popescu did not select 0.5.3 as the root fork point.
ben_vulpes: and yet somehow trb forked from 0.5.3
ben_vulpes: notrly the latter.
ben_vulpes: "enumerating badness"
ben_vulpes: what next, rackspace?
ben_vulpes: and you propose to identify all such virtualized nodes somehow?
ben_vulpes: achtung achtung
ben_vulpes: trinque suggested not-trivially-enumerable endpoints for wotmembers, eg engage in a brief gpggram session one time, yields a wotpaste/my-difficult-to-enumerate-endpoint place for individuals to post textwads to
ben_vulpes: i am just looking for a sane balance between toilet for the mob and useful tool for the wot.
ben_vulpes: yes yes yes you drama queen
ben_vulpes: that i understand.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you accept use of a token in headers for use from cli?
ben_vulpes: jurov: why'd i not be?
ben_vulpes: (it's just a fucking latrine that needs digging)
ben_vulpes: which is why i think it should be hammered out and left alone at the earliest possible moment.
ben_vulpes: anyways jurov if i had an inkling that someone would do it besides myself i'd not have done it in the first place. if you want the thing on your plate, lmk, otherwise if you have an obvious solution you're not holding out for paste-opoly also let me know.
ben_vulpes: (it is the root of cognition, no?) "usually this makes the food happen"
ben_vulpes: (what else would it be the most serene republic of, though?)
ben_vulpes: yes boss
ben_vulpes: tmsr~ needs ui like it needs people who need ui.
ben_vulpes: megasuperdevstack only makes sense in context of insane complexity of ui development, jurov.
ben_vulpes: no js in tmsr~!
ben_vulpes: no js in this thing.
ben_vulpes: everything else is ego and vanity
ben_vulpes: all i want is a prophylactic against crlfs.
ben_vulpes: if you want it, take it!
ben_vulpes: try me, jurov. what's a better direction?
ben_vulpes: "but it still led to a $1.59 million increase in fees in one quarter" << how do you knoooow
ben_vulpes: "The results: about 9 percent more poor students matriculated." << how would you know it's attributable to your work?
ben_vulpes: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/10/obamas-effort-to-nudge-america-000276 << in which the department of statistics completely forgets about the challenges of untangling correlation from causation
ben_vulpes: nobody 'needs' a toy.
ben_vulpes: not selling, really. more of a toy for phriendz
ben_vulpes: well then what precisely were you proposing?
ben_vulpes: SO WHY THE FUCK WRITE SHIT FOR PEOPLE NOT IN THE WOT
ben_vulpes: isn't the classic answer 'the other gurlz'?
ben_vulpes: so riddle me this: why the everloving fuck *should* i make any tool usable for anyone outside of my wot?
ben_vulpes: yes well clearly when we actually have gossipd auth i can wash my hands of auth too.
ben_vulpes: if so i would like an introduction to this registrar, they sound like good people to know
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu proposes to manage dns without authentication? is this like the mythical bezzlebroker who only communicates in gpggrams with $maxint clients?
ben_vulpes: incl assbot
ben_vulpes: aight but before we go haring off completely is there an argument to be made in favor of wotmembers signing authentication tokens over decrypting authentication tokens?
ben_vulpes: well no it wouldn't be sensible things
ben_vulpes blinks
ben_vulpes: primes and not?
ben_vulpes: right right, just gleefully abstaining from helping lol
ben_vulpes: "i don't solve problems, i just make them"
ben_vulpes chuckles
ben_vulpes: useles, you are!
ben_vulpes: merry cribmusk.
ben_vulpes: from pasteshite design to "all you-sians are congenitally retarded" in less than 50 lines.
ben_vulpes: i'm not saying that they won't, i'm say that nobody appears to actually be doing so.
ben_vulpes: people aren't getting blogs and using them.
ben_vulpes: and miscellaneous other pasteshites who shit crlfs and waste precious trb time
ben_vulpes: people are still using motherfucking dpaste!
ben_vulpes: plus every irc community evolves until it has its own pastebin or how did that old saw go
ben_vulpes: that's what i've been doing, but it's not working and i'm still seeing heinous linefeed issues hamstringing and tripping up trb scouts
ben_vulpes: yeeeeeah.
ben_vulpes: but this is extremely inconvenient to use.
ben_vulpes: alternatively, rotate the pubkey every day, encrypting to l2 and hosting myself.
ben_vulpes: i did briefly consider letting people sub out a disposable key
ben_vulpes: and redistribute whenever someone pisses in my cheerios?
ben_vulpes: and having a known set of users rules out a whole class of misbehaviors.
ben_vulpes: because i have no interest in building things for the mob.
ben_vulpes: punkman, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: destestable though they may be for injecting state into the stateless protocol, would a single "signin" page with an assbot-style decryption of OTP that results in a session key authenticating the user to the perlwad be an improvement, and are there better solutions i'm not considering? anonymous drive-by pasting is not a better solution imho.
ben_vulpes: but i was up till 5 last night, so not really applying the razor
ben_vulpes: brief snippet sounded sorta with-it
ben_vulpes baffled that ipnohe coolie is starving somehow
ben_vulpes: there's an experimental aspect to it as well, in the vein of getting more signed msterial out in the world
ben_vulpes: k, noted
ben_vulpes: but i don't think you called out specifically that you can rewrite the whole file's line ending styles without invalidating it
ben_vulpes: ah that's right you beat me to this one by a long shot
ben_vulpes: isn't it grand!?
ben_vulpes: ahh i love shipping in the wee hours
ben_vulpes: jurov: while we're on the topic...
ben_vulpes: isn't that called a webserver?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell BingoBoingo qntra.net/contact/ << missed this one?
ben_vulpes: the link you cite as mircea_popescu picking 0.5.3 is a response to a request for a copy of the source of a particular vintage
ben_vulpes: eh gtfo pete
ben_vulpes: > 0.5.3 selected by Mircea Popescu
ben_vulpes: aha, yes.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there anything to this gdansk deepwater port nyooz?
ben_vulpes: there are specific heads i'm out for yet.
ben_vulpes: i dgaf about guards
ben_vulpes: this shit is enough to make me despair of anything but burning everything down.
ben_vulpes: how is it that place can get away without showing a profit?
ben_vulpes is surprised asciilifeform's parser can handle the title, much less the piece
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you want a rehash of the GUD stuff? a wholesale reexamination of every point in the piece?
ben_vulpes: rooting around in middens
ben_vulpes: "research"
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352445 << oh come on, no citation even?! i spent hours on that research.
ben_vulpes: or, talking about script?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352327 << wait, what has changed in the bootup process that would justify an update?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352122 << this was never actually on the table, the thread was war stories on my part and generalized architectural opining on mircea_popescu's
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352005 << neat! i would dearly love to see this.
ben_vulpes: nifty.
ben_vulpes: okay, this i now dig.
ben_vulpes: i am completely out of my depth here.
ben_vulpes: in that any byte array can be used to represent an integer?
ben_vulpes: please bear with me for a moment, hashes are then actually a sortable thing, a la...integers?
ben_vulpes: "keys" in this case would be 'txid's?
ben_vulpes: i must now admit to only a kindergarten level understanding of data structures, for any who remain un-clued-in to this fact
ben_vulpes: how then to sort transactions?
ben_vulpes opens the door, gestures frantically
ben_vulpes: sure, but did you miss the line where i asked "what data structure will work here?"?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1351815 << have i not yet achieved loglightenment on how to index the transaction set?
ben_vulpes: like i said, 'twill remain a mystery
ben_vulpes nods in appreciation
ben_vulpes: oddball pun
ben_vulpes: ages, ageists, women in tech
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re handwriting, it is a mystery for the ageists
ben_vulpes: yes but /have you run it under gdb/
ben_vulpes waves at Naphex
ben_vulpes: why the everloving fuck would trb care about rtrees
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1351774 << conversation wasn't strictly about trb but dbs in general
ben_vulpes: run it under gdb?
ben_vulpes: bloody wacky thestringpuller
ben_vulpes: i'm curious to know what data structures people who understand data structures would suggest for storage and indexing
ben_vulpes: try setting them in the config file
ben_vulpes: does it work with a getinfo and no rpcuser/password?
ben_vulpes: that's why eulora's looking for mapgen in $yourlang
ben_vulpes: it ain't hard
ben_vulpes: punkman: just write some cffi
ben_vulpes: external process
ben_vulpes: notrly a server
ben_vulpes: lol but should it crash with those?
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: check debug.log?
ben_vulpes: anyone recall offhand how to get gpg to crap out signed data sans header/footer?
ben_vulpes cannot recall what triggers this message
ben_vulpes: sounds extremely familiar
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c does your wot thinger spit out json anywhere?
ben_vulpes: you can do it!
ben_vulpes: tonight is whitespace night in the sweet republic of bitcoin
ben_vulpes: quelle mort
ben_vulpes: you're full of spunk tonight
ben_vulpes: i suspect maintaining that java/c layer would be more expensive than just beating adequate performance out of sqlite was
ben_vulpes: corvette is hiding from the rain, wife is back in the kitchen, and child is inflating at normal biological rates
ben_vulpes: actually what's an embeddable-via-c relational db that does r-trees besides sqlite?
ben_vulpes: i know first hand the costs of making it do...stuff.
ben_vulpes: aha yes
ben_vulpes: how the fuck on earth is one supposed to know if the original text had \n, \r, \r\n or whatever the original hodgepodge of linefeeds was to begin with?
ben_vulpes: armor -- most poorly-named flag in the history of nix tools.
ben_vulpes: i must be the last person to have figured this out or something.
ben_vulpes: and both fucking verify
ben_vulpes: 'cause i'm looking at 2 text files with different shasum 256's and the precise same text except for linefeeds
ben_vulpes: and whitespace on linefeeds in between blocks of text in signed files?
ben_vulpes: is it old news that gnupg dgaf about linefeed types?
ben_vulpes: backups, backups, backups.
ben_vulpes: i'm not actually serious mod6
ben_vulpes: eh, deedbot's an adequate pastebin
ben_vulpes: didn't someone figure out which pasteshite didn't?
ben_vulpes: every single time man
ben_vulpes: remind me why sqlite wouldn't have worked here?
ben_vulpes: death to all key-value stores
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-12-2015#1349743 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-12-2015#1349744 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-12-2015#1349873 << log grepping is becoming its own skill. i recently lost five minutes looking for "month" instead of "mos."
ben_vulpes: interesting to note the various timelines for replication of trb work
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-12-2015#1349573 << i could crap out a limited subset of toolchain adequate to demonstrate workflow with/out emacs if you'd like
ben_vulpes vanishes
ben_vulpes: in other news the incal's a not bad romp
ben_vulpes: i guess we don't need baby jebus to save the britneychain if the linux foundation's going to fork the phr33 w0rld off it
ben_vulpes: highest but invalid pow chain?
ben_vulpes: funny, it's like 90% of why i'm even here
ben_vulpes afk, will follow along via ipnohe
ben_vulpes looks forward to mp's contract for the death of modern web tech
ben_vulpes: i don't see a macri coming by to devalue the webstack though. have been struggling to cook up the scenario wherein the world's managers declare technological bankruptcy and completely failing.
ben_vulpes: the mess of complexity in development (not just 'web', chil'ren) is very very similar to the argentine problem of everyone believing their flats are worth all that us paper.
ben_vulpes: legend has it that he reprogrammed hung satellites on the fly with forth
ben_vulpes: god bless chuck
ben_vulpes: yeah i didn't hear anything from asciilifeform to the contrary
ben_vulpes: negative.
ben_vulpes will sign off on tarballs and v'd hashes thereof.
ben_vulpes: yeah we might get there and again stan might get hit by a bus tomorrow
ben_vulpes: and just the likelihood of that happening makes me want those under v.
ben_vulpes: et al
ben_vulpes: it's vastly more likely that someone's going to need to crap out a patch for eg openssl than replace it wholesale.
ben_vulpes: unless we want seperate v 'repos' for each dep for distributing patches to those libs
ben_vulpes: we'll need to v everything
ben_vulpes: implies deps on dns, net, a million failure points.
ben_vulpes: our current vendoring goes and pulls that from thebitcoin.foundation, right?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it's 2 that makes me want to vendor dependency sources.
ben_vulpes: how to bridge the gap between 'v means i read and agree' vs. 'we need the source for these deps in the v-tree'?
ben_vulpes: (shiva-verifiable, perhaps)
ben_vulpes: none of those are really human-verifiable either.
ben_vulpes: dependencies to freeze: bdb, boost, openssl
ben_vulpes: too much problem surface area!
ben_vulpes: (the kernel line was a joke, but whatever)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: so buildroot is out of scope then.
ben_vulpes: only question in my mind is if we stick linus' kernel in there too.
ben_vulpes: one could stick source dependencies into some "lib" dir, wire that into the builder, update the scripts and then produce some new patches with the entire world, right?
ben_vulpes: plus yeah, we have V, why not really tax it.
ben_vulpes: simply because every additional http call to get another bundle of source is another weak link, another hole for the night etc
ben_vulpes: i'm leaning towards a 'monorepo'
ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?
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