mircea_popescu: mod6 _gcry_log_printhex instead of it.
asciilifeform: <asciilifeform> _gcry_log_printhex instead.
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how the x works.
mircea_popescu: it just passes the test but dies on make nm
mircea_popescu: mod6 edit configure, the test above with your path.
mod6: i can'gnupg-2.0.30 to build either
asciilifeform: not, at least, without some strange heathen magic, which i apparently lack here.
asciilifeform: now for the magic moment.
asciilifeform: presently testing on a box that had the deps crapolade
asciilifeform: _gcry_log_printhex instead.
asciilifeform: there's no log_hexdump in libgcrypt.
mircea_popescu: so now, if i put the path in autogen.rc, nothing happens.
mircea_popescu: ARE THEY MAD???
asciilifeform: hey there was a reason i did not start with gpg2.
asciilifeform: well if you want to do this the gentoo way, actually gotta build libgpgerror
mircea_popescu: they made dependencies like 1->2->3
mircea_popescu: you don't properly appreciate the chain of braindamage.
mircea_popescu: how do i build libgcrypt then ?
mircea_popescu: fucking nightmare. so the lib-error shit compiled, but obviously ./configure --with-libgpg-error-prefix="/home/mircea/gpg-2.0.30/libgpg-error-1.24/" does nothing, with or without quotes
asciilifeform: it will pull the deps you didn't tell ./configure about from the various pestholes they normally end up in.
asciilifeform: fastest way to get all the deps is to simply grab a sacrificial (e.g., 'african') box and let it install gpg2
mircea_popescu: is it going to walk me one by one through the entire list of loserdom, lib"assuan" and whatnot ?
asciilifeform: (grep 'configure' for 'with-libgcrypt', see how many other crud libs it demands...)
asciilifeform: you gotta build libgcrypt and then tell gpg's ./configure where to find it
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm not even bothering with that crapolade nao.
asciilifeform: the copy i happen to have pulled from my arse at this moment is 1.5.1.
mircea_popescu: there is no cipher/primegen.c in 2.0 ?
asciilifeform: in libgcrypt, the thing is in cipher/primegen.c
mircea_popescu: "put the key into an S-expression"
asciilifeform: so the lunacy isn't even CONTAINED in it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you built it, post the dump plox.
mircea_popescu: and you should see keygen.c THERE
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally their dumbass "manual" https://gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/gcrypt/Prime_002dNumber_002dGenerator-Subsystem-Architecture.html references /cipher/ which is gone in 2.0 trunk
asciilifeform pictures boeck, poor idiot, waking up at 4 in the morning, called to do his dooooty
asciilifeform: (the bound may conceivably be lower)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: so basically... the best key produced by stock gpg is... wait for it... about 700 or so bits strong.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/werner-koch-confirmed-usg-stooge/ << admire the FF FF pairs, among other things.
mircea_popescu: jesus mother of holy shit, two different problems.
asciilifeform: and this isn't even the koch scenario.
asciilifeform: then, build.
BingoBoingo: Do we break pinky for anesthetic value now or later
asciilifeform: it is quicker to throw in the extra 'hexdump' line by hand, than to get the patch ducks in a row, imho.
mircea_popescu: the things you're an expert on ...
asciilifeform: holy mother of shit.
mircea_popescu: at it means to be a blogger[7] . These essays and this writing style are tempting to people outside the subculture at hand because of their engaging personal tone and idiosyncratic, insider's view. But after a while, you begin to notice that all the essays are an elaborate set of mirrors set up to reflect different facets of the author, in a big distributed act of participatory narcissism. "
mircea_popescu: I blame Eric Raymond and to a lesser extent Dave Winer for bringing this kind of schlock writing onto the Internet. Raymond is the original perpetrator of the "what is a hacker?" essay, in which you quickly begin to understand that a hacker is someone who resembles Eric Raymond. Dave Winer has recently and mercifully moved his essays off to audio, but you can still hear him snorfling cashew nuts and talking at length about wh
mircea_popescu: pe I am not the only to find this highly suspicious.
mircea_popescu: " In Paul Graham's world, as soon as oil paint was invented, painting techniques made a discontinuous jump from the fifteenth to the twentienth century, fortuitously allowing Renaissance painters to paint a lot like Paul Graham. And the difficult problems the new medium supposedly helped painters solve just happened to resemble the painting problems that confront an enthusiastic but not particularly talented art student. I ho
mircea_popescu: this gotta be in the logs :
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is more to this yes/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: upon reflection, there may exist also a mathematical relationship which allows BOTH mods to be broken.
mircea_popescu: also, i had never read that dabblers and blowhards essay before, but good god is graham unfucking bearable AND ALSO remarkably undistinguishable from every other foss idiot, from o reilly to who have you, if distilled like that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, seems proper tmsr-rsa will have to come sooner rather than later.
asciilifeform: (to the subkeys.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: remember, the ~initial~ contents of the pool are entropic (at least in as far as the os provides)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also importantly, is it the first 20 or the last 20 ? he's claiming the last 20.
mircea_popescu: situation : you go to make key with stock gpg, set it to 4096, ie 512 bytes. it makes you the sign key with 512 entropy bytes, then makes you the encrypt key wirth the remainder 68, and that's it.
asciilifeform: from my current reading, first 20 of every 600 is fixed, for the duration of entire run of process.
mircea_popescu: more's the point here : does that pos actually work so as to get any entropy past the 600 bytes pool ?
asciilifeform: their main function was, iirc, to curate the openpgp working group, to make sure rfc stays replete with braindamage.
mod6: "the PGP team at Symantec" << lel!
mircea_popescu: shitheads.
mircea_popescu: then they mysteriously kept copy/pasting the wrong digits off each other and i'm supposed to what, look the other way ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 because whatever inept handler was passing them the talking points didn't even have the modicum of know-your-bizness to get the actual number.
mircea_popescu: fuckign shithead, there he sits, going to himself "oh look, these kids are closing in on me, let me say publicly that it's "probably a software bug / cosmic ray".
mod6: just threw this out to the unwashed ^
asciilifeform: 'Bitcoin.org has reason to suspect that the binaries for the upcoming Bitcoin Core release will likely be targeted by state sponsored attackers. As a website, Bitcoin.org does not have the necessary technical resources to guarantee that we can defend ourselves ...blahblah... The hashes of Bitcoin Core binaries are cryptographically signed with this key. We strongly recommend that you download that key, which should have a fingerprint
mod6: <+asciilifeform> it isn't fixable while conforming to the rfc. << ah right. ugh.
asciilifeform: nevertheless.
asciilifeform: it isn't fixable while conforming to the rfc.
asciilifeform: most recently during the 'linus shortid' thread.
asciilifeform: this is in the l0gz on several occasions
asciilifeform: mod6: the fp calculation is not adjustable.
asciilifeform: this is one of the more egregious festering sores
mod6: and SHA1 checksums? wtf is this, the 90s?
mod6: any one able to get their hands on: "URL: </pipermail/attachments/20160817/9a9f4612/attachment.sig>" ?
mod6: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-announce/2016q3/000395.html << wtf. this guy doesn't clearsign these emails
asciilifeform: BLOCKLEN==64. DIGESTLEN==20 (working length of the retarded 'patent-free!11111' ripemd hash).
mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is a point that should be reviewed. is it the case that EACH 600 bytes lose 20, or is it the case that ALL bytes past the 580th are gone ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/08/17/the-road-to-the-future-is-paved-with-gravel/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The road to the future is paved with gravel.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform the incredible gall of the imbecile, to actually state it as "This bug does not affect the default generation of keys" << i mean srsly. since 1998!?
shinohai: mircea_popescu: she said does it count or can you see the letters?
BingoBoingo: comment field eats lots of things and then shits.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-6313 << ok, click on patches at the bottom, then 'diff', yields the diffs. << werd. thx. i had to resort to cloning the gnupg gitrepo and doing diffs.
BingoBoingo: Is that the revision?
phf: hold the presses!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the incredible gall of the imbecile, to actually state it as "This bug does not affect the default generation of keys"
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, whole point of perfecting the botworks layer by layer
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 21:30 phf: i believe, that there's a man, somewhere in the bowels of meta-nsa, who can see the entire puzzle picture
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 20:43 asciilifeform: would readily abolish the idiocy with 'wallet watch' mechanism etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 19:41 Framedragger: asciilifeform: grep is amazingly fast because it does it in a smart way (you prolly know). i can give some number but i expect the q is rhetorical (i.e.: it's fast) :)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523477 << believe it or not the grep trick was dissected in logs at length!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523472 << afaik it just imports the blockchain.info version.
asciilifeform: must be. unless there are authors not listed in https://www.gnupg.org/people/index.html .
phf: 98, that must be the man himself?
asciilifeform: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-6313 << ok, click on patches at the bottom, then 'diff', yields the diffs.
asciilifeform: phf: do you find it interesting that the particular patch is posted nowhere ?
phf: i believe, that there's a man, somewhere in the bowels of meta-nsa, who can see the entire puzzle picture
asciilifeform: '...bug in the mixing functions of Libgcrypt's random number generator: An attacker who obtains 4640 bits from the RNG can trivially predict the next 160 bits of output. This bug exists since 1998 in all GnuPG and Libgcrypt versions.'
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523264 << Trilema the blog already epic self help cyclopedia.
asciilifeform: would readily abolish the idiocy with 'wallet watch' mechanism etc.
asciilifeform: ( probably there is a 'last seen' addr-to-blockidx hash table, so we get something like O(n log n) lookup. )
asciilifeform: sooo either gribble (or whatever service is cribs from) did not actually chug through 100G, or the number is approximate ('in last n blocks...'), or.
phf: it's the same technique that log uses to search entries, but i lose becase individual chunks of text are not necessarily sequential or localized by page. asciilifeform's for question though is about the fact that simply picking up 100G, page by page, from disk into ram, is expensive
Framedragger: (re. grep, https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2010-August/019310.html << just for the logz)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: grep is amazingly fast because it does it in a smart way (you prolly know). i can give some number but i expect the q is rhetorical (i.e.: it's fast) :)
asciilifeform: (anyone have link to gribble src ? does it keep the 100+G in ram?!)
asciilifeform: there are ~100+G of blocks now.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 19:24 asciilifeform: incidentally it is the khadeer & co. modulus.
asciilifeform: we - turn them over.
asciilifeform: the cockroaches assumed, lived entire life, that no one will ever turn over the rocks.
asciilifeform: theoretically any ~inexpensive~ attack, such that i can do it against the whole collection of mods, is fair game.
asciilifeform: (e.g., the degenerate case, perfect square, as above.)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: obtw, did the breaking of that khadeer modulus come from you implementing the "check (NextPrime(2^1023))^2" heuristic? 'cause that's bound to yield some new results!
asciilifeform: the one where (NextPrime(2^1023))^2.
asciilifeform: incidentally it is the khadeer & co. modulus.
PeterL: what was the biggest it did so far?
asciilifeform: not to raid on the parade, but must point out, phuctor is not a collection of peculiarly-small keyz...
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523211 << seeing phuctor breaking things caused me to get off my ass and take the couple minutes to generate a bigger key
mircea_popescu: empire not doin' so hawt these days.
mircea_popescu: The stuff they have there is super-duper interesting, but it is by far not the most interesting stuff in the tool set, he said. If you had the rest of it, youd be leading off with that, because youd be commanding a much higher rate. << yeah... and then... SELL ADVERTISING.
mircea_popescu: The auction is a joke, Weaver said. Its designed to distract. Its total nonsense. He said that bitcoin is so traceable that a Doctor Evil scheme of laundering $1 million, let alone $500 million, is frankly lunacy.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty lulzy how butthurt they are at the fact bitcoin raped them, though.
asciilifeform: (not quite relatedly, why was gribble able to answer the 'balance' question so quickly ?)
asciilifeform: ( the thing that is not clear to me is what part of this leak prevents even a single parcel from being intercepted, with old ~or~ new cisco rubbish in it, and patched to admit the cock, supposing any of these devices even ~need~ such treatment, given that the master keys are escrowed already )
mircea_popescu: funny shit where the files usg stole from sr are supposedly being sold for x unless they were actually stolen first by freelancing agents etc ; whereas the files ? stole from usg are being sold for 100x.
asciilifeform: there were a few.
mircea_popescu: what, cookie overflow, ifconfig bug, plenty in there.
asciilifeform: in most of the samples, the actual exploit used to get control of the box is not stated, quite likely it consisted of 'interdict the parcel'.
asciilifeform: well, the ciscolade etc. is particular to 7+ y.o. fw.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol, what, you mean they moved from py ? to what, ada ?
mircea_popescu: these you somehow transform into i have nfi what, but the fact remains : whether the cock went through the cervix into the uter or not,
asciilifeform: ~none of the affected systems are in use today outside of the most godforsaken orclands.
mircea_popescu: a) there is no dispute from you that this was actually their shit ; b) apparently so much is available some of actually their shit can be freely distributed, in gb sized portions.
asciilifeform: (and certainly not interesting enough to disclaim 'hangout' hypothesis.)
asciilifeform: i even believe in the authenticity of the cisco crud, it is simply not esp. interesting
asciilifeform: i'll believe, when, e.g., the recipe for taking 100MB of aes ciphertext and distilling out the key, is posted.
asciilifeform: 'crown jewel' is, at the very least, something nontrivial from cryptodirectorate.
asciilifeform: in other not-quite-noose, https://archive.is/gsdsL << summary of nsa turd. accurate per my own read.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-04 19:59 mircea_popescu: but it's certainly quite deep. the vermin doesn't merely aim to a comfortable existence, but more importantly to a memory-less situation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'split fuzzing', note, is how lizard folk approach virtually ~every~ problem - even the production of 'musicians' by disney, etc.
mircea_popescu: so now back to the issue : we have some semblance of defense against what is in fact a universal problem ; they don't, and are in denial. as per the cannonical expression of this situation, http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/#selection-147.267-153.105
mircea_popescu: which brings us full circle to why exactly it is that universal butchery http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523317 : by making fewer people you DO make the problem "go away" ; but you resolve naught.
mircea_popescu: nobody in the time of voltaire had retina burns from laser watching.
mircea_popescu: historically, it was ensured by exactly the same process that ensures you can find your goat in http://trilema.com/2012/anonimity-or-the-urban-versus-rural-dispute/ - which is to say low pop density and the necessary orcishness therein produced will "protect" you in the sense not having lasers protects you from shining them in your eyes.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 17:13 phf: Framedragger: i was young and a bum, i recognized all these people because my entertainment machine would reinforce their presence for me. "oh jwz is talking. oh now it's ptacek. oh it's paul graham! squee". but they were always in a different category from say norvig or knuth or naggum. once i started doing and learning (i.e. painfully read knuth, rather than just have him on my shelf) i finally was able to grok the difference.
mircea_popescu: this point is valid, the only problem is that it mostly discusses THE STATE. yes, every fiat entity has the incentive to eventually pivot ; and they all do. the derps are currently insulated from this by the momentary happenstance that the thieves are in a compact, called "the state", and everyone left outside is well... not someone you'll hear about. because exactly of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523303 "entertainment
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 17:12 mircea_popescu: this is ~half of the usg "national security" plan, except they suck at both modelling and implementation.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523293 << by the way, i don't think the implication of that discussion can't possibly be understated. for instance, it is a common etatist criticism of "what they call bitcoin" so really, tmsr, that "everyone running a business has an incentive to eventually run so eventually will" sort of thing.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 17:33 phf: but when i made it to the first startup school, my reaction was "nerds trying to be businessmen, stick to doing nerd things". it took me many years to understand how their fundamental views made them not only suck at life, but also fucked up the computing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523334 << the memory hole effect. un-fucking-washable, for some god forsaken reason.
mircea_popescu: actually, this guy died sovereign, over a rather enlarged moldavia (took mostly from poles, lithuanians etc). he left testamentarily that "listen to your old shepherd, deal with the turks ; unlike the russians, the turks keep their word"
asciilifeform: sequel: ... the general puts on brown pants, epic battle, he shits pants, loses half of army, but - just barely - wins. but next years... 'sir, whole army of the turk is here.' .... 'bring my miniskirt.'
mircea_popescu: next year, my lord, the turks are coming ? "a lot ?" well... suleiman himself, 1mn infantry, more horse than previously known to exist in the world, etc
mircea_popescu: so they go, beat the turks back over danube, take trophies, build monastery, rape the nuns etc.
mircea_popescu: but why the red ones majesty ? well... if i get hurt, the troops won't see the blood and won't lose heart.
mircea_popescu: so joke is, vornic comes to stephen, my lord, the turks are coming. "a lot ?" well... there's the vidin pasha with maybe 100k jannisary + etc
mircea_popescu: this guy, legendary ro leader, fought something like 50 encounters with the turks, won over 90%. including you know, crazy shit with 1.x mn men on opposing side.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:43 phf: mircea_popescu: in orcland, we have game, we put colored pants on people, and let them be our heroes. their pants distinguish their status in hierarchy
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523186 << btw speaking of this, you know about stephen the great's pants ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:23 Framedragger: (also, ha, just saw the star wars parallel)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523127 << wasn't a star wars reference ; it was a concordat of worms reference. you know, with the guelphs ghibelines et all
asciilifeform: experimented successfully with storing a double-digit million sum of euros in cash at what the insurer describes as a manageable cost. A few other German banks, including Commerzbank, the country's second-biggest lender, have also considered taking the step. But when a Swiss pension fund attempted to withdraw a large sum of money from its bank in order to store it in a vault, the bank refused to provide the cash, according to local m
asciilifeform: 'After the European Central Bank's most recent rate cut in March, private-sector banks are paying what amounts to an annual levy of 0.4 per cent on most of the funds they keep at the eurozone's 19 national central banks. ... but private bankers and insurers are already thinking of creative ways to avoid those charges altogether. One way is by turning the electronic money they keep at central banks into cold, hard cash. Munich Re has
phf: but when i made it to the first startup school, my reaction was "nerds trying to be businessmen, stick to doing nerd things". it took me many years to understand how their fundamental views made them not only suck at life, but also fucked up the computing.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:31 mircea_popescu: i perceive the following problem : in my (rightful) bashing of idiocies (allinged around "colored coins", "dao" etc, that jazz) i distinctly hear the crushed hopes of people who look at those as a refuge from something else, specifically. i suspect it's hwqat you call "anarchists"
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523161 << you know, that's an apt characterization, and i think you're right re that second group of wanna-be anarchists; true, probably. and i am aware that tmsr regards bitcoin *quite* differently indeed, which manifests in the block size discussion etc. yeah.
phf: fractional snr, and only because there's a few paragraphs about how they used clisp at yahoo stores)
phf: i don't really think his message changed, it's just that he started talking about different things. there's the lisper period and then the hackernew/yc/startupschool period. i knew of him, because of the excellent On Lisp book, so i read hackers and painters when it came out, and read that dabblers and blowhards article when it came out, possibly because i thought that hackers and painters was awful (the book literally has low
Framedragger: (i may be mistaken about the actual number of years)
asciilifeform: i have them here.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: the man had two - entirely acceptable - school textbooks on common lisp, in 1990s.
mircea_popescu: which is how people end up with the notion of butchering most of the extant walkers.
Framedragger: phf: ha, nice. well, fair. (it made me warm inside to recall that i *never* took paul graham for much; anyone who reads only a bit by him on stuff that they know something about will realize this; e.g. http://idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm (this is the "website obesity" guy))
mircea_popescu: gets lulziest when they encounter people who do not want to exchange their life for a fetish, and then explode into "putin doesn't understand how the world works!!1"
mircea_popescu: ironically, people in the contemporary, anglo sense of that term WANT to be these empty identities. no idea why or how; but imo much more serious a threat to anarchism than any kind of authority.
asciilifeform: the particular flavour of tptacek's dismissal of phuctor suggests that it was his 'now do your duty' moment.
mircea_popescu: more like, a good chunk of what this stable of uselessness tries to argue its usefulness from, is their utter failure to do anything about things like phuctor, misrepresented.
asciilifeform: a good chunk of what the 'genius splitters' are kept around for is to be blown on annoyances like phuctor.
mircea_popescu: now, to be perfectly clear, i'm not either accusing or suspecting x guy of this, chiefly because i don't imagine he has the resources. nevertheless, phf's objection is much harder to reject than superficially appears.
phf: Framedragger: i was young and a bum, i recognized all these people because my entertainment machine would reinforce their presence for me. "oh jwz is talking. oh now it's ptacek. oh it's paul graham! squee". but they were always in a different category from say norvig or knuth or naggum. once i started doing and learning (i.e. painfully read knuth, rather than just have him on my shelf) i finally was able to grok the difference.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yes, it is unknowable. but the naive defense of the person first contemplating this issue is "oh, this is too noise, i'd hear about it"
mircea_popescu: this is ~half of the usg "national security" plan, except they suck at both modelling and implementation.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: the point is that whether the difference is from this kind of tree ordering, this is unknowable..
mircea_popescu: and this is just the first step. nothing forces your identities to keep playing ; you can retire them at any point you wish, and now you have a stable of "never wrong over n binary questions" respectables.
mircea_popescu: where's the difference from ? and if it were this, who'd know ?
mircea_popescu: what we ALSO know for a fact is that the count of people actually active on facebook last year (~10mn) is deeply dwarfed by the number of facebook accounts (>1bn).
mircea_popescu: for an observer, these being unlinked, there's "genius" identity 10111010001 which answered correctly to that many binary questions in a row.
mircea_popescu: consider the proper model for this : let there be an unknown endless list of binary questions. you create an endless list of identities, which you publish, 2^(n+1)-1 for the nth question. unknown to anyone but you, they are linked in a tree (ie, you know in advance identity 10111010101 will answer "yes" to q1 no to q2 yes to q 3-5 etc).
Framedragger: phf: i'm curious, what was it that made you to originally regard tptacek highly? was it his words/discussions (and then later you decided that it's the only stuff that the man has actually produced - a fair point i guess, if you dismiss the crypto challenges, for example)?
mircea_popescu: understgand that the a/b split-scam scheme there discussed can do this with ~identities~ too. just create a tree of them.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: "the sequel - was almost wholly free of mathematics, and replete with 'best practice because my arse thusly spoke' crapolade." << okay, that's sad, and an educational case
mircea_popescu: on one hand there's the mfas, a number game, based on brute force. like say http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-25#1509965 (showaround). on the othe rhand there's "authority blogs", like say gawker.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i mean.. i agree; i just don't agree that tptacek fits the category. sure, there are analogies, but then there exist analogies with mircea_popescu, too.
asciilifeform: and hell knows how many other charlatans.
mircea_popescu: this is a "business model", and in the shit the us is these days, it's actually a "premium" business model : establish "authority" of the purely wordy sort, then pivot.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: (just ftr i don't think too much of bruce, either)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the reason there's a lot of credence in phf's perhaps harsh criticism is http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/
asciilifeform: the sequel - was almost wholly free of mathematics, and replete with 'best practice because my arse thusly spoke' crapolade.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: the original was written when he was still something like an honest man.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: ever see the sequel to bruce schneier's crypto encyclopaedia ?
Framedragger: phf: so you don't regard matasano crypto challenges as anything worthy, then?
mircea_popescu: "i could be mp, i read all he wrote" "and if tomorrow mizdra lands with an alien submarine, what will you say as mp ? this hasn't happened in the past ALREADY, for you to life the quote"
mircea_popescu: on one hand you have people with the fixed part "disagreeing", who dress it up as they dress it ; on the other, you have the people with the fixed dress, who call "their position" as they may call it. these are very different, and the latter's easily disqualified.
phf: mircea_popescu speaks from experience, of things that he have practiced. even mpoe-pr's rants were using internal mpoe practices as a model for argument. it's not clear that ptacek has any kind of similar standing, because we don't know what he did. he argues for best practices, which he could've as easily picked up from reading others. compare to, say, djb, who, when speaks about security, uses his extensive qmail (etc.) experience as
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: agree re no intrinsic value, incidentally. this does not nullify there being possible to distinguish valuable writing from shit writing, *within a framework of meaning* that we can all agree on.
mircea_popescu: "everyone who disagrees is usg stooge" <<< this is not the criterion. everyone who dresses his "position", which they don't even call disagreeing, IN THE SAME COLORED PANTS, evidently shops at the same shop. you see ?
asciilifeform: the latest derp pretended, quite vigorously, to have never seen it.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: observe the 'neverhappening' of the ssh key pops, which have 0 to do with gpg policy.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: one *could* maintain that there was no interesting finding for someone who trusts gpg import policy. and yes, a fool is he who trusts gpg; but a charitable interpretation of such an opinion is possible
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the reply isn't "this serves tmsr's purposes", but moreover, the reply is that he's in charge of his own household, and if he is making a mistake it'll hurt... him. and if the other made a mistake, evidently it'll hurt... the other.
asciilifeform: this is not 'disagree.' it has another name.
asciilifeform: 'there was no finding. and oh incidentally hanno boeck found the finding. and hey there was no finding.'
asciilifeform: 'disagree' is not the word.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ... "everyone who disagrees is usg stooge" is the vibe i'm getting; impossible to have an actual conversation then
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i went to visit the -otc heathen folk specifically to test my working hypothesis, of phuctor as an unfailing political litmus strip.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: look i won't fault you for pre-forming an opinion on tptacek and not spending your valuable time re-evaluating it. but such heuristic lumping of people into two camps is rather crude indeed. i know someone may reply "this serves tmsr's purposes well anyway, so what of it" - well, okay..
asciilifeform: all i solidly know of the tptacek fella is his reaction to phuctor.