asciilifeform: y'know, the 'hey d00dz i have steam engine' 'lol, why would anyone want this, we have slaves'
asciilifeform: speaking of greek-fu, what does mircea_popescu have to say re the traditional story of hero of alexandria's steam kettle ?
mircea_popescu: well he is entitled to his own aesthetic judgements.
asciilifeform: we - or at least asciilifeform - does not know this for certain. but the shape of the smoking crater -- suggests it.
asciilifeform: aristotelian postulates give you warm feeling of satisfaction; work-with-hands and observations-trump-theory give you ballista.
mircea_popescu: does this relate to the discussion in any way ?
asciilifeform: it ain't the deer.
asciilifeform: uncle al had imho pretty good 'cartoon' for this 'all philosophies are equally dead' red herring -- 'who holds the rifle during deer season? and why'
mircea_popescu: all philosophies are dead in this sense ; next you'll be asking "what is the sun's utility to us"
asciilifeform: dead philosophies do invite themselves to this reduction to cartoon, yes.
asciilifeform: but it is dead end in the sense where it does not produce diode.
asciilifeform: it wasn't simply 'they died', their approach to thought, as i pointed out in the start of this thread, is alive and well, 'allah farted and moves electron'
mircea_popescu: well wtf argument is this, "they died". sure, constantinople fell to the turks, and rome fell to odoacer. hurr ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i met two kinds of women in this life ; the kind that'd hang out with anyone just as long as they didn't go to jail/starve/whatever ; and the kind that'd hang out with me if it meant underground.
asciilifeform: it remains -- the folks with the linear-circles have ballista, while the ones with the circular linearities -- got anally waltzed by turks
mircea_popescu: traditionally, as well as here, the value of trying aristotle is that it allows one to expose his own cluelessnes, which is generally beneficial.
mircea_popescu: the problem being that no - circular motion is NOT linear ; much like a taylor sum is not an integral. yes they can be made arbitrarily close, sure, whatever.
mircea_popescu: rather.
asciilifeform: btw the modern greeks' attempt to unfuck (deturkify) their language, is rather lulzy to trained entomologist
mircea_popescu: and after aristotle was invented, the greek world had what, -20 years of life left ?
mircea_popescu: moreover the "physiologists" (term of art) went through anaximander's ionians AND pythagora's italics before socrates was even invented.
mircea_popescu: (also it should prolly be pointed out that aristotle was not that much of a star of the greek world, if for no other reason then because he was born realtively late. he was a major star of ~scholastics~, and discussions of aristotle esp in translation are more a discussion of early christian europe than of "the greeks" - which incidentally are also a complex thing, alexander for instance, who caused hellenism, was nevertheles
mircea_popescu: indeed, which is why it's the "greco-roman antiquity"
a111: Logged on 2016-12-02 20:44 asciilifeform: during dinner with hitler et al, speer (among other things, reichsminister of architecture) made a comment about 'one problem, our concrete houses will leave very poor ruins'
mircea_popescu: the first gives youy ballista AND REDDIT ; and the other gives you praxitelles and alf-s-gentoo
asciilifeform: the distinguishing cut is that one gives you the ballista (or diode, or nuke) and the other -- irigaray.
mircea_popescu: and sure, the greek style of deductive logic, from the all downwards lost in the field to the latin method of inductive "from the parts is made the ballista". i have no objections, but also can't pretend the alternative never existed.
mircea_popescu: when you go to school in 3rd grade or w/e the teacher tells you a line is "blablabla EXTENDS TO INFINITY"
mircea_popescu: should be pretty evident that a dimension defined in terms of divisibility is very fundamentally not the same thing as the latin notion of dimension-as-extensibility.
mircea_popescu: there's many problems ; it's not even the case that the greek notion of "dimension" at all maps to anything here extant. the discussion is carried on trilema on easier things such as "power" etc ; but in any case, it's rather like having lisp types arbitrarily sloshed around. you don't just add 5+5 like that, if they're different types.
asciilifeform: the idea of '1,111 stones' is just as inaccessible.
trinque: just sounded like he was establishing an axiom, and would've said bring forth the man who has seen the 4th dimension if challenged.
mircea_popescu: (there is no such thing as an inaccessible physical system by the definition of the terms.)
mircea_popescu: note also that all sorts of insanities are "the most parsimonious know model" for various otherwise-inaccesible psycho-systems.
asciilifeform: it is not the greek rejections that make for circular logic, but what they did not reject.
asciilifeform: if the imaginary entity (e.g., n-dimensional space) is the most parsimonious known model of an otherwise-inaccessible physical system -- it is not purely imaginary in the irigaray sense.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the proposal to discuss a space one may never walk into may be seen with the same eyes
asciilifeform: the strings folx willingly put themselves in the company of irigaray et al when they explicitly pissed on parsimony and physical testability.
mircea_popescu: there you go - i haven't translated, but at least discussion allowed us to build a sufficient basis so at least a meaningful summary could be devised.
mircea_popescu: here's the thing : structure of knowledge and content of knowledge are different concerns. dutch erroneously represents a problem with the content in terms of problem with structure.
mircea_popescu: but you don't like string theory!
asciilifeform: but where does one meet these.
asciilifeform: i can picture one as a nonphysical boojum, like the imaginary solution to a quadratic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i;m not sure you grasp the point here. read it again!
mircea_popescu: (contrary to common belief, supernumeray probabilities are a major problem in theoretical physics ; much of the nature of the problems aristotle was struggling with in his discussion of heavens)
mircea_popescu has better greek fu than dutch, which allows him a better emulated aristotle than dutch's, which is neither here nor there.
mircea_popescu: and aristotle could read this log, smile broadly at alf, and say "hey, suppose someone comes up with a superunitary probability ; and you disqualify it for you know, being out of the defined bounds. my my aren't you a circular logician just like me!"
asciilifeform: i in particular would like to understand the greeks. but every time i go full bore and try, i end up with 'the arbitrary crapola i gotta load into my head, to properly sink into this text, is quite equally loathesome to, e.g., 'dialectic materialism', or obummercare, or american patent law, etc.'
mircea_popescu: the question before you is, were you trying to understand the greeks, or were you trying to explain to yourself why you aren't trying to ?
mircea_popescu: now we understand each other. dutch can't be "wrong" about aristotle per se. it is a fact he didn't much understand what the other said ; and it is a fact that in the dutch system, dutch's observations stand, however vaguely greek flavoured they may be.
mircea_popescu: suppose you excavate tomb in valley of queens ; suppose you find ~live~, talking, cogent queen in there. suppose you take her to the shelf of items, and give her a questionnaire. she is to select "dildo spatula or hat" for each present item.
asciilifeform: folks who 'can't be translated into idiot mongol' are guilty until proven innocent of playing glass bead games with words and pulling one another's cocks
mircea_popescu: as generally happens, mongols will comprehend the bums better than the middle class.
asciilifeform: then i ask for coherent picture of subj in some current living language -- and no dice
asciilifeform: not salvation, no. but a kind of hygiene. diagram forces the speaker to use fewer #includes and 'powers of greek' etc.
mircea_popescu: there's no "risk handling textbook" in finance.
mircea_popescu: and no, it's not at all harder to talk nonsense via diagram. more generally : there's no methodological salvation ; you won't go to heaven through not swearing ; you won't produce science by following "the science method" and so following.
mircea_popescu: which he did sound like ; and which is why he doesn't figure as proeminently among the greeks of his time as he does among moderns.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform euclid was considerably more portable, ironically, because he was considerably more alphabetic. he eschewed ~most~ of the power of greek at his time, and ate the downside of sounding like a literal retard.
mircea_popescu: so then : in order to go from a string in greek to a string in english, one has to reconstruct the conceptual underpinnings, the "source code". and this is not trivial.
mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
mircea_popescu: now - translation operates not on the object code (ie, the string quoted, or a string quoted) but on the whole program : any string plus ~the totality~ of conceptual content of the brain that produced it.
mircea_popescu: and as to the problem of translation : source code and object code make together a thing. an item can not be said to be a program without either. their relationship is particular, you can go from one to the other, and ~to a very limited degree~ from the other to the one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as per usual, it depends on what is is. so - yes, pissed. you piss idem, when you say things to the tendency of "work - for tractors ; not humans". your dislike of perl and his dislike of "observation" in the sense of "handiwork" are very close ; and closer to my eye than alternatives.
mircea_popescu: jurov this is not actually true. but the falsity of the equivalency would be harder to pinpoint.
asciilifeform: because afaik this shows up again and again, and aristotle in particular explicitly pissed on the very concept of a thinking man working with his hands
asciilifeform: to revisit upstack -- yes, mircea_popescu's greek-fu is strong, and asciilifeform's -- weak. so, let's ask him, is it a misperception of untutored barbarians, that the greeks picked reasoning over observation , categorically ?
mircea_popescu: i hasn't the patience to go into detail as to echonton eisin & friends. not aristotle's fault.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to be precise : i can't turn the greek string into an english string for you for the same reason you can't turn trb into lisp code for me. "but alf, it compiles! a lisp version must exist!" hurr. i don't propose "because you can't take object code and make me lisp source it follows no c sources existed" do i ?
mircea_popescu: this is not exactly correct. they despised what you despise, which is to say sitting there and deleting 30-40 spam accounts/day
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if the rabbit cannot be pulled out of the hat, perhaps there is no rabbit in the hat ?
mircea_popescu: let's approach this from a more hospitable angle. dutch makes the charge (unsourced, but it's sheer anglicanism) that the reason the greeks didn't build ironclads is that they (like the chinese, natch) despised manual labour.
mircea_popescu: σίν." somehow comes to "There is nothing else beyond body (three dimensional solid) because if there were, then there would be something else beyond body." which... it doesn't.
mircea_popescu: (but no, steve dutch's reading of aristotle is not interesting qua aristotle, or qua greek thought. it's strictly the case of dutch speaks english and found an english translation of aristotle, so he imagines that "τῶν γὰρ φύσει συνεστώτων τὰ μέν ἐστι σώματα καὶ μεγέθη, τὰ δ' ἔχει σῶμα καὶ μέγεθος, τὰ δ' ἀρχαὶ τῶν ἐχόντων εἰ
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty much reduces to "the greeks went wrong in being traditionalist, ie, expecting their negative space is universal negative space".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes ; but coherence is also a very slippery thing. for one thing - the ask.fm cowsies are very coherent. bitcoin is ??
mircea_popescu: moreover - the real killer - this "catching up" needn't happen in any finite time. the atomists of athens never got the support coming their way ; it was a risible sect in the place and time.
asciilifeform: the 'intellectual coherence ranks above results' thing had not fully died in his time
asciilifeform: recall the gauss (specifically re euclid's 5th) thread ?
mircea_popescu: eventually "actual" science caught up with them and backed them up and here we are - but in other cases it didn't! the recon squad that sees enemy fortifying and raises a flag and calls for reinforcement may get them, and create a turning point in the whole war. or may not get them, and create half a dozen fresh graves.
mircea_popescu: just the problem of optics in the time of galileo - none of that shit worked in any sensible manner. very much like in the case of string theory - they dispensed with reason. they did.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather go far because if i stay close it looks too much like genuine science.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imagine someone who actually went to the trouble of rescuing - from an intellectually powerful, epistemologically informed position - all the insanities of history. "witches weighing doesn't work because witches don't have a float mass"
mircea_popescu: the fundamental reason weighing photons works and weighing witches does not work has nothing to do with anything inside the science ; they tried both, much like newton tried alchemy.
asciilifeform: fortunately (?) we still have a working model of the old school, preserved: 'atoms move because allah farts on them'
mircea_popescu: so, yes : science, and i don't here mean, globalwarmism or pseudoevolutionism or lulzgametheory or such ; but - physics. astronomy, things of serious. these didn't develop methodically, in history, but exactly through a process of "try random batshit and it sometimes works".
mircea_popescu: he tree, and you have no guarantee at all points you will have to resolve an epistemological dispute you will also have the political class available.
mircea_popescu: trinque the problem with feyerabend isn't even that he's an asshole, or whatever else. the problem is, his criticism of methodological science actually stands ; contrary to what people like to believe galilei's stance was a lot less defensible than the church's at the time ; yes he won, and yes he's from our party, so fuck the church - but this political approach to the problem is weak specifically because it tries to go up t
trinque: hm, we may have reimplemented evolution in this manner. breed incessantly, generate disjunctoins with reality at random in new meatsacks, older meatsacks that survived the last round kill the bad candidates, goto 10
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, the problem is not that it does that ; just that sometimes, it goes about it ineptly.
trinque: would befit the creature that found a life of sorts on every continent but the totally frozen one
mircea_popescu: (and if you're wondering - the hallucinatory perception of the other known objectively as "puppy love" is precisely an implementation of this principle. as it exists in all cultures [that i'm familiar with] it seems likely to be the definitionally human trait. man is the beast who, when confronted with a shortfall, dreams up a compensation.)
mircea_popescu: or to revisit the theme of http://trilema.com/2016/what-lasts-forever/ : notional valuations always supply the shortfall. how exactly one goes about getting those notions varies, but they will be got.
mircea_popescu: which is why insanity is usually the escape valve for desires incomesurate with possibilities. as alf says, nothing novel here.
mircea_popescu: but in any case - alienation and self-realization stand in an inexact opposition - if for no other reason then because derealisation often appears as a viable alternative self-realisation. "i am a pretty special snowball" is exactly the self-realised derealized individual, satisfied with his own self image in a wholly imagined world. while by definition maximally alienated ; he also is maximally self-realized.
mircea_popescu: evidently there's some expectation somewhere that the batshit insane terms of the empire will be taken at face value. by someone, somewhere. i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: yes, but "ask.fm has 150mn users" and shopify trades as NYSE:SHOP for 40bux and then some guy wants to discuss things about you know, "MPEx has no volume you have been warned!!11"
mircea_popescu: you'd expect basic numeracy to also be "perfectly adequate for all kinds of everyday work", except the kinds of everyday work in question are no longer done - the kids all see themselves you know, CEOs.
mircea_popescu: the robots are now doing that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no such thing as "everyday work" anymore.
mircea_popescu: anyway, while the quoted article is remarkable in toto as a fine sample of what wikipedia is, intellectually, the "break all the mirrors" fatlogic reaction is not limited to wikitards.
asciilifeform: the pedestrian notions of 'voltage' and 'current' also have problems.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the pedestrian notion of value and worth certainly have practical problems.
asciilifeform: 'those with title to something worthless will find a way to extract value from it, making it even more worthless. An abandoned suburban subdivision might be worthless as housing, but valuable as a dump site for toxic waste.' (orlol's discussion of 'asset stripping', in http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062805_soviet_lessons_part2.shtml )
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, things such as "buy up all the grain and lock it in the basement", which are EXACT equivalents - antieconomic underutilization, are... also "firmly negative". well which the fuck is it!
mircea_popescu: firmly in what sense ? if the company is worth less than its parts, then this is a case of underutilization of capital goods. someone somewhere is starving because you decided to keep the warehouse empty.
mircea_popescu: "Asset stripping has presented itself to be a highly controversial topic within the financial world. The positives of asset stripping generally lie with the corporate raiders, who can slash the debts they may have whilst improving their net worth.[6] However, the general perspective of asset stripping is firmly negative."
trinque: at least the socialist state claims to exist *here*
trinque: "not me but christ through me" even worse, I'd think, with apologies to danielpbarron. "I submit myself fully to the god of purpose."
mircea_popescu: recall the time when eu zone declared short selling illegal ?
mircea_popescu: which severance is reinterpreted internally as "liberating" - the same kids who ENJOYED getting out of the house when they were 18 then cry when their parents die. but why ? weren't you so fucking happy to be rid of them ?
mircea_popescu: ah. it is a failure mode ; the feedback is perceived by the i-subject as dolorous, and if there's too much of it the only way to rescue the ideology is to sever the feedback.
trinque: "no feedback between the hardware and ideology"
trinque: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38387530 << unrelatedly, guy was nice enough to leave his ID right there. tidy.
trinque trying to wrap brain around whether this is a failure mode or universally true, but will have to implement tail recursion optimization in his own head first
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, anyone looking for a good source of the subversion of "stem" in the us may as well go read feyerabend)
mircea_popescu: they seek self-actualization, not reality-adequation after all.
mircea_popescu: and so therefore - no, they're not doing anything in town but playing eulora. it has ~nothing to do with farmer, miner or soldier.
asciilifeform: hey, s. lem got there first, in 'futurological congress' !1111
mircea_popescu: there ISNT an outcome where they go on reddit and wikipedia to say the opposite of what they think, see ?
mircea_popescu: if luck/skill/process/whatever feeds them, they'll be fed and go on reddit and wikipedia to say what ~they think~ about it. right or wrong.
mircea_popescu: there is no feedback between the hardware and the ideology ; and consequently matters of existence are irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no actual link between these two planes, you udnerstand ? consider that the idiots who thought hillary will win, DIDN'T yield once she didn't win. consider the above story of dreamers, and ALL experience without exception.
asciilifeform: aha. or even the reaction to asciilifeform's 'what's a good flight sim' side thread
asciilifeform: well no shit, imaginary creatures of particular type, can indeed eat it. but they run on top of physical hardware, which eats entirely other things.
mircea_popescu: this is the fundamental syllogism that informs all the outwardly-insane human behaviour.
mircea_popescu: could you say "whenever someone clicks on some grass to make a bundle and process it into coarse frangible thread - they are gambling with the proceeds of the actual irl farmer and miner, and soldier." ? sure. does it actually say anything however ? i dun see what.
pete_dushenski: *the leavers
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really. in fact, they're just playing eulora.
pete_dushenski: they leavers still end up missing the quietude and tranquility of the countryside. there's no taking the rural out of the boy.
asciilifeform: (and of the soldier, etc)
mircea_popescu: this is the essential point, that shock of the alzheimer patient who sees self in the mirror and calls the police to report a burglary.
mircea_popescu: nobody has clean hands (go to a bio lab sometime, see). however - city gamblers feel their city gambling hands to be ~theirs~ to a larger degree than rural gamblers do.
mircea_popescu: (and yes farming is entirely chumpatronics, of the worst ilk. as dean martin once said, "my old man used to gamble that he'd get rain. i figure if a man's gonna gamble, might as well eschew plowing."
mircea_popescu: however it is telling that the leavers all seek the same thing - and it isn't the city per se. it's just "self-realization" ie, the opposite of the above alienation. essentially, they seek to not be chumpatron engineers.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski this is not universally true however. even in the narrow urban-rural-1970s universe discussed, there are some who are more alienated by the urban than the rural, prefer to live on the farm.
pete_dushenski: something like 4/7 kids had top marks in their respective years.
pete_dushenski: no one wants to go back to the farm. tis very true and the primary reason why my father's family busted their nuts to get top marks in county so as to get the fuck off the land and move to the city.
pete_dushenski: trinque: you'd like their trucks. solid electronics (unlike ze germans), rock solid engines (unlike ze amerikans), but high resale value.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if the pig farmer didn't experience alienation the pig farmer's daughter would be under my table begging to suck my cock or anything else so she doesn't have to go back to the pig farm.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is not clear to me that a chumpatron operator has to experience any more 'alienation' than a pig farmer. the latter does not particularly care how pigs remember his work. nor the chumpatronist -- how the chumps remember.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: stealership wants 800 for part, 6.1hrs labour at $155/hr. also recall these are pitiful canuckbucks, not megaU$$$D here, so chop a full quarter when converting your bezzle outrage. but yes, civic tranny is cheap, toyolexus parts very spendy. anyways, my mechanic is doing it for closer to $1300. still a slap but not quite as dear.
mircea_popescu: while alienation is a fact of life ; i scarcely see the merit in building it in deliberately ffs.
mircea_popescu: how exactly does one defend against the very sartre-ian angoisses in this context ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but see the fundamental problem with this ? why should i wish to be far away from my life's work ? what am i, some sort of celenterate ?
asciilifeform: the builder, unless he is exceptionally stupid himself, understands that it will explode. his idea is simply to be somewhere far, far away, when it does.
mircea_popescu: food ; nor the fridge heat it.
mircea_popescu: that's, i suppose, the actual point here : that while building chumpatrons ~is~ feasible ; and in many actually encountered circumstances it ~is~ productive ; nevertheless a chumpatron is not a tank. not merely by coincidence of design, like a spoon is not a fork, but could pass for a fork in a bind. a chumpatron is not a tank fundamentally, nor could ever be a tank of any kind to any degree, much like a stove can't cool your
mircea_popescu: yes, and the average piece of fresh river mud can be fucked (in any hole!) even more times, even more before breakfast.
asciilifeform: the average 'human potential' furniture could probably be persuaded to believe everything, and its opposite, 'six times before breakfast'.
mircea_popescu: i was amused at what the us state dept imagines average romanian may believe.
mircea_popescu: well in retrospect it may be whatever, but at the time it was more of the same "human potential unlocking" gargle.
asciilifeform: i always parsed the aol thing as, from lizard pov, 'thinking folks are gettin' uppity, let's ddos'em'
mircea_popescu: evidently the correct solution is ~a correctly closed society~, not the hallucination of an open one. but then again the republic takes thinking, and so...
mircea_popescu: so it occurs to me that the ~only cold war ideological response to totalitarianism (more or less soros' mental construct of "an open society") is kneejerk nonsense of the prime order, very much in line with the proposition that "subverting cryptography increases security" or "gun bans increase security" etcetera.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/how-the-other-half-lives-a-very-seriously-funny-article/ << Trilema - How the other half lives - a very seriously funny article.
trinque: asciilifeform: https://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/curl_mprintf.html << they just have copies of all of them in libcurl ?!
asciilifeform: 'libcurl's implementation of the printf() functions triggers a buffer overflow when doing a large floating point output. The bug occurs when the conversion outputs more than 255 bytes.'
mircea_popescu: the rest... eh, whatever.
mircea_popescu: no see, that's about education. ie, equality ~of chances~ or whatever the fuck. the issue however is equality of substance.
mircea_popescu: "By adding "required" to the Answer box input tag solves the captcha requirement issue." is prolly the best part.
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, isn't it fucking weird that the progre and libtard preoccupy themselves with economic inequality so, but never seriously considered intellectual inequality ?)
mircea_popescu: and speaking of facebook users etc, here's a reminder as to how the other half lives : https://archive.is/kFdOX
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 08:58 ben_vulpes: anyways the notion that anyone on facebook is anything other than a non-player character is hysterical on the face
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587072 << the evolution of paul graham's internet : first, ashley madison made a site where scripted "women" interacted with loser men ; then, a bunch of kids made a bunch of sites where scripted "users" interact with scripted "users" : facebook, reddit, instagram, twitter, you name it. ALL of them, simply put.
ben_vulpes: anyways the notion that anyone on facebook is anything other than a non-player character is hysterical on the face
Framedragger: "A sentence reportedly containing an expletive directly followed by a reference to a religious affiliation (for example: “f*cking Muslims”) is not allowed. However, the same does not go for the term “migrants,” as migrants are allegedly only a “quasi protected category.” Additionally, Facebook reportedly allows for posts that could be deemed hateful against migrants under certain circumstances. For example, a statement
Framedragger: http://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/facebook-leaked-docs/ << lulzy. "Facebook does not permit “verbal attacks” on a “protected category,” according to the documents. These self-determined categories are currently based on a number of factors, including: sex, religious affiliation, gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, national origin, disability or serious illness. Some of these groups contain sub-categories"
ben_vulpes: in which the inadequacies of wget for archiving an apache server become apparent or something
ben_vulpes: i had a full transmission swap done on the civic for less
ben_vulpes: do you also pay for oil changes at the dealership?
pete_dushenski: in its infinite wisdom, the city decided to turn the municipal airport into 'mixed use urban development', leaving only international airport 40km from house.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: mostly because airport is further from maison than offices and properties i frequent.
pete_dushenski: on a plane there's (ideally) no wifi, no one talking to you, just the pen and the page. i miss traveling as much as i did the last decade as much as anything for the rarefied air free from distraction.
pete_dushenski: there's literally nowhere better to think and write than at 30k feet.
BingoBoingo: Fron the Ark
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'm just trying to help you continue the natural order of things and move on to next car
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: ofc. discretion is the name of the game in jp, posturing the name in us.
pete_dushenski is currently discovering the not inconsequential expense of new starter motor in ls. $2k! how many g5s and ppcs is that, goodness.
pete_dushenski: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FgblF0NsG1A/WFmUcmNln1I/AAAAAAAAoGI/IsVf__4qaJ0p3vwc_ySI9mlq0qLm-NkcACLcB/s1600/Fz11DuI%2B-%2BImgur.gif << speaking of civilisation, this is how pm's lexus ls460 (same as mine, natch) merges onto freeway protected by small motorcade. note the utter fluidity of the white-gloved hand gestures.
BingoBoingo thought outside on Monkeystan everyone just had a room they surrendered to compact shelving.
mircea_popescu: (pretty clever design - you could hook the glass pane out by lifting it.)
mircea_popescu: hey, my own library housed thousands of volumes in the standard romanian bookshelf, which yes had glass
mircea_popescu: i saw such. not everyone's fond of the dust.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1586996 << how come ~nobody in usa has civilized bookshelves. the kind with the glass doors.
pete_dushenski: speaking of shortness and weirdness, happy longest night of the year! edm had just 7:28 of daylight today, so 16:32 of darkness. top that, equitarianists.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, they have this crazy shit here - picconia excelsa. the wood hardens SO MUCH as it dries you can't fucking work it
BingoBoingo leaning towards southern yellow pine
pete_dushenski: the 'd' in indiand is for 'original', like in bitcoind.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I don't think you know how wood is marketed. There SPF or "Spruce, Pine, Fir" for the ones that suck because the bulk of particular kinds of softwoods all suck in the same ways. Then you get outlifers which are also lumped together like Douglas Fir and Larch or the 3-ish species of Southern yellow pine.
pete_dushenski: in other canadian softness, looks like 'liam' and 'sophia' were the most popular baby names for newborn boys and girls, respecitvely, in 2016
pete_dushenski: ...the cedar sticks
pete_dushenski: they do whip-flick nicely
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: pretty sure the beating stick my old man used was cedar. metal tipped too!
pete_dushenski: anyways bb, if you missed trump's campaign rhetoric, he often called nafta 'the world deal ever made ever, like ever ever' and much of that is focused on the softwood imports from canada 'undercutting good white american biznizmen and their upstanding famblies' etc.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: we grow pine, fir, cedar, and spruce, most of which come from bc. ontario and quebec grow some hardwoods like oak and maple but these aren't as practical or affordable for general construction so they're exported in smaller volumes relatively speaking. so depends what you want your shelves made out of. pine can work but obv the hardwoods are sturdier if also commensurately spendier.
ben_vulpes: now for my next riddle, what solstice gift do you get a woman who already has a baby and doesn't want another yet?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i expect once the land/ownership update makes it in, eulora will give a run for their money to a lot of peoples.
mircea_popescu: hey, gotta leave some room for future growth lest the webcommenters win the webattle.
mircea_popescu: do they have science in your country ? how about tedx ?
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Land Area / Countries of the World - World by Map: <http://world.bymap.org/LandArea.html>; Geography of Canada - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Canada>; List of Canadian provinces and territories by area - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_area>
pete_dushenski: o hey 800 on the stamp
pete_dushenski: keystone, at least not at the national level. but then again, whotf cares about the national level ?
pete_dushenski: "The value of Canada’s natural resource assets stood at $287 billion in 2015, down 73% from 2014, largely due to lower energy prices. […] Timber resources accounted for 55% of the value of all natural resource assets in 2015, followed by minerals (26%) and energy resources (19%)." << in other news, trump's looming war on softwood lumber is going to fucking hurt. and no, it won't be balanced out by
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 21:49 trinque: seems deeply political. what you've got there is a consent bit.
asciilifeform: i can picture variations that increase cost (e.g., higher bitrate, and internal battery) but the basic idea cannot be improved, no.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 22:11 phf: i'd imagine in sane world they would have something like FUCKGOATS or an expensive variation of (like john walker's hotbits) so can publish schematics all you want. in reality it is probably a prng with a seed under two keys
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586849 << the thing with fuckgoats is that, much like in the case of, say, dildo - more expensive variation doens't usefully exist.
asciilifeform: but there were (and, not too long ago, i saw -- still are!) 'security'-flavoured talismans.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586838 << you mean the "blogosphere" prizes from like 1999 ?
mircea_popescu: phf but if you're up for some utter wtf, can always try "this must be the place". i have no idea what i saw.
mircea_popescu: (this, i come to realise, is a major block for my watching ~any video sf. back when the people involved weren't idiots, the machines weren't yet capable.)
mircea_popescu: i just don't go for the whole carny show with the facepaint and the star wars papier mache models.
mircea_popescu: phf i tried recently and couldn't stand it. the cheapo roadshow really irks me. it's almost like watching that dude "commenting", what's his face
phf: mircea_popescu: while you're in that french mode you should watch (or rewatch?) fantômas. there's the three 1960s ones, with de funes. i have no idea if they are any good, because i haven't seen them for a very long time, but i suspect that they are sort of comedic 60s take on james bond.
mircea_popescu: the insanity of this boggles the mind, if the mind can be bothered to stop and think for a minute.
mircea_popescu: yeah, he's not a very good actor, but a fine icon. in the vein of brooms that shoot once, a picture of a car can count for a car from the right angle once ; and a stopped clock still shows accurate time on occasion.
phf: i always thought of him as a pretty boy who can hold a certain pose. that's why i think purple noon is great, where he fits perfectly because he looks young, fresh, aloof and arrogant. but his other stuff is forgettable. i think he had some tv show where he played a middle aged detective, where he was great again, by virtue of being the right age
mircea_popescu: la zizanie certainly got the trilema treatment.
mircea_popescu: fwiw de funes shows the same tragic character, except he's more of an engineer at heart, a great administrator, a sort of fouquet rather than you know, piaf's legionnaire.
mircea_popescu: phf possibly not. but yes, not ~entirely~ bad, and as an actor certainly better than whatever dorks available today, so he'd still win a "what do we watch" competition. the period though... ah, ah.