a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 21:06 ben_vulpes: in other brute force attacks, did we do http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/02/hacked-just-six-seconds-criminals-need-moments-guess-card-number/ ?
ben_vulpes: i don't usually fuck with dependencies, but when i do i want my ide to fix all of the problems for me
phf: ben_vulpes: well, that's why there's appcode.
mircea_popescu: ~same came of either +/- a blowjob or two.
ben_vulpes: phf: even naive xcode shits whitespace all over the place
mircea_popescu: of course at the time dev work was cheap. i had no interest, but this actually happened in del ray casino ; and the kids were asking for less than what people threw at the sluttier ticas in chips.
mircea_popescu: as in, you know, "i'm sure this is great and all, and the not working totally incidental"
mircea_popescu: he didn't even mean anything by it, he was using it ~to encourage~ the kids.
phf: ben_vulpes: it's actual the opposite lulz right now. intellij idea is excellent tool for shitstacking, but i know ok devs who stick to subltime text or vim because "lightweight" "real hacker tool", even though they lack discipline and skill to use those tools effectively. it's like "no, you should probably use this thing, so that i don't have to fucking deal with your inability to format your own source file"
ben_vulpes: anyone ever see the hoops people jump through on large "magento" sites?
trinque still cannot believe the immense effort that people put into making "dynamic" web page frameworks when the overwhelming majority of the web is static content.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591275 << except the russians will be more than happy to ship over excess grain, in exchange for the usual deal
phf: ben_vulpes: "i don't know what's going on here" "ok, let's see what the source says *opens source, starts reading*" "???!?!??!??!?"
ben_vulpes: in other brute force attacks, did we do http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/02/hacked-just-six-seconds-criminals-need-moments-guess-card-number/ ?
ben_vulpes: "wait, how do you even find the source code for stuff?!"
phf: asciilifeform: i literally don't spend ~any time~ learning web on my own. i simply have this unprecedented apparently ability to sit the fuck down and read the documentation/source code for longer then it takes to google twitch. spend 3 hours of reading docs??? forget about it, i might as well be a wizard of some sort.
mircea_popescu: or no wait, sanger did the retarded "citizen encyclopedia", the crazy "knowledge" job was something else
mats: watta privilege, getting shitfaced on the job
mats: heh, half a dozen folks i know at tripadvisor are likely still there because boss is ok with consuming a growler before noon
phf: asciilifeform: but i ~learned~ web 2.0 when it came out in 2004 or 2005 or so, back then because it was interesting new technology. literally nothing changed since then. so now web is an easy racket. despite all the "shitstack" cries there's no difference between it and other types of manure work, but the bar is so low, it is sometimes very convenient. if you're a ~good~ developer doing web, you can write your own check, write your own
phf: asciilifeform: i also did physical security, actually my biggest lisp project was modifying FREEDIUS to do perimeter security on multiple large south african compounds. they needed to do coordinated incident escalation and wanted something more sophisticated then a wall of monitors
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 19:36 ben_vulpes: did mircea_popescu think the piece was actually supposed to be useful for teaching noobz to c0d3?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591251 << it's ambiguous ; some of the things suggested actually are programming / learning how to do it yes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591248 << i dun see it. the whole fucking point of it is to solve the (interesting) problems selected by whoever is running it ; not the freeform "solve whatever problem you want" bs.
ben_vulpes: i'm also experimenting with alternative identities, imagining wearing a food truck, to see "how the other half lives"
ben_vulpes: ain't like alibaba and amz are going to stop shipping cheap petrocrap to the states
ben_vulpes: i have been considering buying a few beat up tow and box trucks and getting into the hauling of cars and storing of shit
asciilifeform: and hell knows where else, there is hell knows what else, for the easily physically mobile folk
asciilifeform: in trinquelandia, there is petro
ben_vulpes: i cannot stomach the security folks
asciilifeform: the seek000rity racket, for instance
asciilifeform: which others
ben_vulpes: there*
asciilifeform: it did not balance the horror.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i worked in an otherwise inexpressibly-dire and usgtronic shithole briefly where there was ~office with whiskey~
asciilifeform: i still wonder how otherwise-sane folx end up in wwwtronics.
ben_vulpes: i am pretty sure this automated phone system just told me that there were 128 people "ahead of me in line", took down my number and then called me back immediately to put me on hold
asciilifeform: and there are multiple, redundant layers in the shit sandwich, after plowing they sow seeds that cannot be bought, only licensed, etc.
asciilifeform: jurov: possibly because they are sop since a couple of years ago ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 19:46 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << i intuited the same thing, but that it didn't sha512 properly until...last year? induces ye olde pucker
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc the one in gnupg is drepper's
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 16:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << i intuited the same thing, but that it didn't sha512 properly until...last year? induces ye olde pucker
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> dude... someone tell lafond if womenz dun listen it's not about the womenz. << he has comment box and I am busy with unprecedented USDA lulz rivaling unprecedented Israel lulz
ben_vulpes: "learning programming" is miserable and none of the things suggested "are programming"
ben_vulpes: did mircea_popescu think the piece was actually supposed to be useful for teaching noobz to c0d3?
mircea_popescu: as exemplified in the logs i have at least one example of guy learning to program on eulora ; and 0 examples in unity.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if the solution is in java, then it isn't a solution, and chances are that your 'problem' is also not a problem
mircea_popescu: is that the mandatory form of this problem ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 17:13 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pray tell why do you recommed unity in favour of eulora ? eulora bots exist as a matter of fact, with people hacking on them and repl-ing the results after a 10 minute compile. what equivalent to this does unity offer ?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591031 << eulora allows users to spawn n objects and move them around at arbitrary velocities? does physics sim with kinematics?
mircea_popescu: dude... someone tell lafond if womenz dun listen it's not about the womenz.
trinque: mod6: mind your step while I hose Unity's blood and piss out of the room.
asciilifeform: like the proverbial awl in a sack.
asciilifeform: american ceo is same street monkey but with added jet propulsion, as american street scum, and this is impossible to hide from the latter
asciilifeform: american 'ceo' frittered away 'mandate of heaven', just as african 'doctor' is the same monkey but with four story mansion instead of 1-story cement hut, but no detectable additional curative power, vs other monkey
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the distance people will run to avoid wot, you know ?
asciilifeform: in other lulz, some d00d is carefully, slowly crawling phuctor using ~dozen linode boxes (why the effort! why not write in, get a copy of the db, like normal people)
asciilifeform: 'Sorry, not going to do it. I know I'm going to hear comments from you: "it's no problem, just do it, works great, it's how it's done nowadays, the standard of practice, everyone does it, you're old fashioned, ignore the overhead, memory is cheap, blah blah blah." Sorry: no. No! This is software complexity pollution. You need one little thing, but then it requires another, and another, and before long you're installing (and maintaini
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 18:28 trinque: it's where you hax killer apps with other up and coming unicorn startup CEOs
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591202 << i have NO FUCKING IDEA why technical monkeys would wish to misrepresent themselves with this ceo business. being a ceo is entirely orthogonal on what they do, it's like a car mechanic claiming he's a fuel chemist. no good can possibly come of this.
asciilifeform: (it ain't a hare, the kind in the woods, but a beam of sunlight a kid throws around with something shiny, for amusement)
phf: well, these "without master" conversation always remind me of the conversations i have with uber drivers. "i'm my own boss, ese, can work whenever i want -- yeah, man, that's great, now turn left here"
trinque: it's where you hax killer apps with other up and coming unicorn startup CEOs
asciilifeform: is that where folx who don't ~have~ to drag their arses to an office daily, do anyway, like that fired japanese d00d from earlier thread...?
phf: it's active ~disempowerment~, because opengl is already a tricky state machine, but they are trying to manipulate it by controlling a puppet that's using chopstick to toggle switches on a pdp-10 that has effects on the environment state. i'm sure ~if you don't need unity~ you can filter out all the noise, but good luck if that's your first exposure to 3d
asciilifeform: ' ... and if you don't want the opengl's scaling to kick in you have to get the size just right ' << abstractions ftw! gabrielladdel forward and onward !
phf: tutorial and the say you need to enable FooSwitch in BarOptions, but this other tutorial says you need to use PNG, etc.
phf: discussing the moon phases of successful appstore game releases with their shamans, i spent about an hour shoulder surfing one of the "main devs". guy was trying to get a texture to render without artifacts (ultimately it's a texture mapped to a surface in opengl and if you don't want the opengl's scaling to kick in you have to get the size just right), and literally everything that he was saying was in terms of "i read this one
phf: there's a gamedev coworking in philly, the space is primarily rented by some team that had a handful of successful releases in appstore. naturally games written in unity. they can't rent by themselves, but as a minor celebrity (game featured on appstore frontpage for a whole two weeks!1) they can share rent with a handful of other 1-2 people teams. i went there once before finding all this out, because was expecting a scene squat. after
a111: Logged on 2016-06-10 21:33 asciilifeform: for absolutely nothing, esp. if you can offload the cost of your turd being pwned weekly, needing 16GB of ram, crashing daily, etc. on OTHER PEOPLE
mircea_popescu: and the ~only way~ innocent grasshopper could even know about this is if graybeard can be arsed to go through these motions - which you couldn't pay me to do as a regular thing.
mircea_popescu: now the fucking code "that's easy to get up" will have to contain a pi radian check because otherwise clocks may be going backwards.
mircea_popescu: and of course b is in the fine print and of course this just became a fine example of the discussion itself.
mircea_popescu: oh, hey, I KNEW this was gonna be in there. a) "I recommend using quaternion variables to represent two things: an object's rotation, and/or a rotation which you'd like to apply to some object." ; b) "You cannot represent rotations of greater than 180 degrees with Quaternions, and when doing a Slerp() or MoveTowards() rotation with Quaternions, the rotation always take the shortest path. So if you need to rotate more than 180
mircea_popescu: with any luck there's a Heisenberg.ToSchroedinger first class function implemented in this unity thing and it runs permanently in the background.
mircea_popescu: these people can't find a simple limit in their head and yet fucking vectors are no good for them anymore.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck it's not exactly the mcdonalds hieroglyphic cash register is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: do you understand this Framedragger ? there is a ~COST~ to this "getting going fast", and that cost is - you give up ON UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE DOING!
mircea_popescu: ier to manipulate them using other representations [...] I recommend using quaternion variables [...]"
mircea_popescu: dude. quaternions. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME OMFG i'm hyperventilating over here. to quote their fucking manual, "Quaternions have some advantages when it comes to gimbal lock and smooth interpolation. Their main downside is that they rely on advanced math -- math that even experienced developers often find difficult and confusing. [...] People very rarely interact with quaternions directly. As it turns out, it's almost always eas
phf: there was an interview where he says that the design goal was to make the managers happy by making teams replaceable. widget driven development, where each widget is isolated from each other
asciilifeform: 'And you're right: we were not out to win over the Lisp programmers; we were after the C++ programmers. We managed to drag a lot of them about halfway to Lisp. Aren't you happy?' -- steele (yes, that one, of CLTL!)
asciilifeform: gosling gets the blame, but there were quislings, e.g., steele, see also http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg04045.html
phf: at this point probably apocryphal, but i'll try to find the origin
mircea_popescu is vaguely unfamiliar, is there a link ?
mircea_popescu: but they were.
asciilifeform: any more than the hieroglyphs on the mcdonalds registers were placed there by the cooks.
asciilifeform: the deskilling was not performed ~by~ programmers.
mircea_popescu: if the average programmer were literate as opposed to marginally qualified clucker, a) configuration wouldn't be confused with programming and b) vice-versa either.
phf: well, yes, but mcdonalds is not the best analogy. it's commodification. "buy this thing that all the pros use and be just like a pro! comes with EASY TO USE controls!"
mircea_popescu: and the whole thing relies on a certain blindness of "why is the tomato green on your cash register but blue in my plate and shouldn't tomatoes be red to begin with" which is the very bread and butter of both "mit is the premier science and technology institution at the world series" as well as "thank you for your leadership we will conqueliberate mosul in two weeks three years ago. or four."
mircea_popescu: phf i fear the matter was more in the vein of "mcdonalds has hieroglyphic rather than numeric cash reigsters because it uses monkeys not people to operate them"
asciilifeform: the key here, for n00bz, is that there is literally not 1 byte in there that does not have 1) a specific purpose, 2) that you can discern from looking at the cpu docs -- which fit on 1 a4 sheet of paper.
phf: license it you'd get source, technotes and some scripting thing. at some point somebody discovered that if you have enough of "some scripting thing", you can keep the engine closed source, thus creating a market of unity/unrealengine/etc.
phf: at some point you had engines, and if you wanted to license an engine you got the whole thing, source and ~technological~ notes. later engines started getting in-house nooks and crannies so that your wizard team of mainloop development can focus on squeezing extra couple of ms for a cycle, while your lesser mortals can write the scenario logic etc. there was a reasonable sweet spot there like Aurora or Gamebryo where if you wanted to
phf: mircea_popescu: that's not what i meant. there are others here who talk about good or bad, where's i don't care, because the cause and effect there is so far removed from where i'm standing i can only look at it in entomological terms
mircea_popescu: holy shit "Quaternion.Euler" is a full blown core function. and wait, there's more : http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/765683/when-to-use-quaternion-vs-euler-angles.html
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i guess the rurality point is actually very apt. just because the monkeys got force-moved to urban "developments" doesn't mean they're not still retarded.
asciilifeform: http://www.pagetable.com/docs/M6502.MAC.txt << the infamous microshit (yes, that one) 6502 basic.
mircea_popescu: inkey$ motherfuckers.
trinque: jump is at least something the machine itself *does*
asciilifeform: but the implementation.
asciilifeform: and not only the language
jurov: poor ben_vulpes, imo he meant the article for completely different demographic than present fine society. almost everyone i know began with barfalicious basic or turbopascal
asciilifeform: trinque: betcha ben_vulpes's 'xcode', or perhaps the latest microshit studio, does this.
trinque: someday they'll hook TAB directly into stack overflow
asciilifeform: about same as mcdonalds employee has input to the deep fryer machine.
asciilifeform: nah see head has very little input into the process.
diana_coman: there is no scheme and no notion of scheme, because only interface and you know a bit country style: what do you mean you don't know how to get to X? EVERYBODY knows
asciilifeform: under the vague, limp handholding of 'human' 'programmer'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when you read soup that makes 0 sense to unarmed eyes, the chances are that: it WAS NOT WRITTEN BY HUMAN HAND
diana_coman: getting things going is seen as "copy/paste stuff really, no need to come up with anything there
mircea_popescu: but it isn't. because the scheme's batshit insane.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naturally by hitting ctrl-spacebar after each vague guess, and reading off the suggested menu crapolade, 'hmm... datesomethingorother...ctrlspace..now...nowwhat...ctrlspace!!1111!111ctrlspace'
mircea_popescu: there's a problem with these "obvious" things that are only ever obvious in retrospect.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, how the fuck am i to come up with "DateTime.Now.TimeOfDay" ?
diana_coman: in other words, mircea_popescu, it is "accessible" and "easy to get things going" - in all the wrong directions, of course, but nobody mentioned anything about direction now, did they
mircea_popescu: it's very bad not because of the computer, which nobody fucking cares, but because it stupids your head.
diana_coman: Framedragger, it's not the syntax, it's the whole "approach"; though if you find *that* acceptable, I guess you'll find planeshift code just as acceptable with all its 20-level dependency hell, mix-and-match mess of concepts (hey, what IS a concept anyway and what do you mean there is something other than interface anyway)
mircea_popescu: and they honestly imagine THAT is what people use emacs for, also.
asciilifeform: then when (horror) it is time to ~read~ it, they use specially-made 'program analysis' tools to make wall-sized chart...
mircea_popescu: at some point someone recounted me an anecdote about the indian minded programmers using like a dozen empty for loops in lieu of sleep ; and then when one was hired to optimize the code he did a nested for loop, the inner being one of the previous and the outer equal to their count.
mircea_popescu: i suppose he has a point - and if you're trying to make one of those clock walls, you'll just you know, paste down the code three or five or n times with various offsets on the TimeSpan timespan = DateTime.Now.TimeOfDay; plus should one of the clocks have to go backwards you'll paste the code once more but put a minus somewhere (which maintenance will take off because automated bounds checking indicated they should - and befo
Framedragger: bbl, will try to respond then
phf: you ~script~ it in C#, by knowing just the right combination of widgets available out of a large collection of widget classes.
Framedragger: ok at least there's that
Framedragger: wtf people, yes java / c# syntax is not great, but srsly now. your aesthetic sensitivities
Framedragger unfortunately has to run, which has the side effect of delaying wrath inflicted by mp
Framedragger: tell me that at least it's not the syntax that you hate.
mircea_popescu: apologies to the participants, but this fucking belongs in here. THIS IS NOT CODE.
asciilifeform: my barf bag! overfloathes!
mircea_popescu: srsly, compare to eg danielpbarron 's implementing of the "drunk" method. http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-drunken-explorer/
Framedragger: http://catlikecoding.com/unity/tutorials/ << some nice shit. granted, not the same as me showing something impressive
Framedragger: you can build complex shit fast there. that's a thing.
mircea_popescu: "meanwhile actual life can wait on the shelf forever"
mircea_popescu: did you just say "it doesn't work but it's the usg.offer for the space and therefore it must be respected" ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: no repl but it's very easy to get things going in unity. though i found it to be clunky in the sense of not being able to contain simple project in one's head, as you have to look at parameters around the IDE/project as well as source code (parts of which are 'attached' to objects). but it's very usable.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 17:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << since theme of the day appears to be sidechanneling, commonlisptrons lacking a separate cons pool for crypto ops, noncacheability hints, etc. are ripe for the treatment
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591029 << that's already been mentioned in the blog post i linked you
mircea_popescu: and plox do not tell me "i just assumed it does because it is the usg.this-thing and i automatically assume the usg.this-thing in all cases and for all things offers".)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pray tell why do you recommed unity in favour of eulora ? eulora bots exist as a matter of fact, with people hacking on them and repl-ing the results after a 10 minute compile. what equivalent to this does unity offer ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 16:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << since theme of the day appears to be sidechanneling, commonlisptrons lacking a separate cons pool for crypto ops, noncacheability hints, etc. are ripe for the treatment
mircea_popescu: and in other well behaved party girls, http://68.media.tumblr.com/79ac8c9145897f1d57cd64858a723b0e/tumblr_odf7sfDuCf1qa7pxgo1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: fancy we're at the sad stage of decay where i am going to use a vague memory of another as to something i myself said as a reference point.
a111: Logged on 2014-12-10 00:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article (or perhaps a thread here? but can't seem to find it...) about an archetypical u.s. expat. fellow keeps a pub somewhere in thailand, or cambodia, etc. the locals - drink for free. he fancies that if he begins to run out of dough, he can always start charging. but somehow in the back of his head he knows what will happen to his sorry arse if he were to do so.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-10#949583 << not quite it, but the only mention i turned up in the l0gz
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 03:51 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590731 << i think maybe back away slowly from ironclad lest it blow up in my face then
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590876 << i suspect that ironclad is still one of the better platforms to audit and integrate into own ecosystem. short of waiting for p what other options do you have? ffi to openssl? the code is readable, in the past year munchkins have been adding various algos to it, so you know what to cut, but also gives you a nice blueprint of how to extend etc.
Framedragger: ah, i see kk re. ctypes vs the older interface..
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 15:20 Framedragger: (branch prediction side channels etc, dunno how feasible in the context of application using pycrypto..)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590975 << i know pycrypto sits on the wire in some of the twisted code, so side channel attacks are definite possibility. (however realistic they are in the wild)
phf: just to clarify it doesn't use ctypes, it's using the old https://docs.python.org/2/extending/extending.html api. which i suspect is faster, since you're constructing python objects immediately, rather than across the ffi boundry the way ctypes/CFFI would have to naturally do it
Framedragger: BingoBoingo: it's a single php file, relatively elegant i'd say. the logic is in redirect() (line 212 on v1.07 of plugin) if you want to verify lack of satan. seems ~relatively harmless but i no wp plugin masta
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 15:19 asciilifeform: why the livingfuck is there even c in 'pycrypto'..?!
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590973 << hah, pycrypto is ~all~ c. python has this ffi mechanism, where import can work on an .so and there are standard hooks for registering/providing python object equivalents from your c code. in this case i don't think there's a single python line in pycrypto at all
Framedragger: i don't know if redirection plugin does that. if you mean that a plugin would add a new line to htaccess then yeah that's retarded. don't think that's how it works
BingoBoingo: but otherwise wordpress fights redirect and drops 404 page
Framedragger: there's a wp plugin but maybe policy against such works of satan
mircea_popescu: hm pretty sure there must be an option for redirects somewhere.
mircea_popescu: sooner or later the teeth show.
asciilifeform: it is not about primes at all, aha, but about the ancient proverb where 'you can't hide an awl in a sack'
mircea_popescu: (and no, the above truth isn't "about primes" anymore than the golden section is "about a4 paper".)
mircea_popescu: at least in my head this is the deep reason alf's hatred of arithmetic transfgorms makes sense to me.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, there must also be a "timing" attack that relies not on time but on properties of integers. and no i don't mean birthday attack - if your hashing is an arithmetic process then necessarily the fundamental fact that "primes count is log integers count" in some sort of restatement is going to bite you somewhere.
mircea_popescu: the legacy bdb is still in trb TO THIS DAY
mircea_popescu: OF COURSE there's going to be c code in python, what, are you racist ?
mircea_popescu: nobody fucking wants to REPLACE anything. they're just building an open society where everything can live side by side blind to any considerations of identity or heritage.
mircea_popescu: i don't think alf understands how the world works.
Framedragger: (branch prediction side channels etc, dunno how feasible in the context of application using pycrypto..)
Framedragger: there are some reasons for it i suppose? avoid timing side channels etc
mircea_popescu: why does "Apparently this issue is fixed on pycrypto's development branch with commit 8dbe0dc3eea5c689d4f76b37b93fe216cf1f00d4, but this change can't be applied directly to the latest pycrypto release tarball; too much has changed." not read "we should have fucking written it all in v last year" is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: for the desperate hearts
mircea_popescu: when in the blink of an eye you suddenly know it's fucked
mircea_popescu: anyway, i think it's poetic, like a month that keeps increasing in day count as i add more pictures. a sort of bizarre astronomy of a planet that slowly distances itself from the sun thereby decelerating and thereby more and more earth days are needed to complete its monthly cycle.
mircea_popescu: works on the basis of decimal(hash(date string)) mod banner count.
mircea_popescu: o wow look at this, etymolone.com has it! "Rare 17c., revived from late 18c. in sense "to strive (alongside another) for the attainment of something" and regarded early 19c. in Britain as a Scottish or American word. Market sense is from 1840s (perhaps a back-formation from competition); athletics sense attested by 1857." is exactly correct for once.
mircea_popescu: hence why it's even fucking called "competition", from latin for "to strive together", competere. same com as in commune.
mircea_popescu: fall behind them" version of mutual driving would historically be what competition meant. this mutual-inhibition style of competition where "we all try kissing girls when we're 7, then those who don't manage having been outcompeted by those who did manage retire to kiss playstations" is novel.
mircea_popescu: i suppose in a forgotten sense this is actually what "competing" means ; walk is "leg competitive" in the sense that the movement of one drags/forces/impels the movement of the other ; tissue growth is competitive in the sense that conjunctive growth drives medular growth and medular growth drives conjunctive growth ; the very chinese (these days) "barracks area B planted roses, can we from barracks area C allow ourselves to
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 01:44 mircea_popescu: Framedragger you're going towards the republican dns / unified name registry thing
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590857 << i guess so. i also guess that gns/gossipd are competing paradigms in terms of namespace / choosing how to name things. but they can also be orthogonal, i'd think..
Framedragger: it seems that tor main folx were banned from presenting at CCC this year (it's tradition that they normally do it every year), allegedly due to the appelbaum debacle..
ben_vulpes: oh hey i don't think we did the auttomatic pr plant: http://www.forbes.com/sites/montymunford/2016/12/22/how-wordpress-ate-the-internet-in-2016-and-the-world-in-2017/
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The Problem of Too Much Money | Bplans: <http://articles.bplans.com/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Why Too Much Money is Worse than Too Little | OPEN Forum: <http://www.openforum.com/articles/why-too-much-money-is-worse-than-too-little-1/>; What problems tend to come out of having too much money ? - Quora: <https://www.quora.com/What-problems-tend-to-come-out-of-having-too-much-mone
mircea_popescu: !~google "the problem of too much money"
ben_vulpes: i feel a great disturbance in the force, as though a thousand seo experts were suddenly rousted from sweet slumber
jhvh1: ben_vulpes: The Problem of Too Much Money | Bplans: <http://articles.bplans.com/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Why Too Much Money is Worse than Too Little | OPEN Forum: <http://www.openforum.com/articles/why-too-much-money-is-worse-than-too-little-1/>; What problems tend to come out of having too much money ? - Quora: <https://www.quora.com/What-problems-tend-to-come-out-of-having-too-much-money>
ben_vulpes: !~google the problem of too much money
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Slavery : the best thing for you . No, seriously . on Trilema - A blog by ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/slavery-the-best-thing-for-you-no-seriously/>
mircea_popescu: !~google Slavery : the best thing for you. No, seriously.
ben_vulpes: at this rate the kids will actually stop using google, as it doesn't show porn, point them towards pirated content or you know actually work at all anymore
ben_vulpes: in oooother lols, at least bing puts trilema on the first page of results when i search by article title
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this does not answer the wtf question
asciilifeform: with the difference that coal actually exists, whereas 'in silico screening' typically yields rubbish.
asciilifeform: it isn't there.
asciilifeform: it is precisely to strip away the crapolade.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590885 << from where did you think the awk in 'vdiff' came from.
asciilifeform: and there is NO and can NOT be such a thing as a 'sane key fingerprint.' see thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-23#1572717
asciilifeform: where two keys where 1 byte of the selfsigned text (e.g., username string) differs, are to be considered distinct
asciilifeform: the linked item was made for a specific, narrow purpose, for butterfly collection of pgp keys as-found-in-the-wild.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590808 << ftr i will say that i heavily disrecomment the use of this or anything like it
a111: Logged on 2016-12-25 21:49 ben_vulpes: it is a small but worth-noting difference between "put yer patches in this here directory, your signatures in this other, and your pubkeys in this third".
a111: Logged on 2016-12-26 03:54 phf: asciilifeform: http://www.method-combination.net/blog/archives/2014/12/29/ironclads-history.html in case you were wondering "how the fuck"
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590731 << i think maybe back away slowly from ironclad lest it blow up in my face then
mircea_popescu: and in other teachable moments, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6ef391758bb0bd96c99fb35895f358a5/tumblr_nd1md1koxb1tgearyo1_1280.jpg
mod6: just workin on these v changes
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you're going towards the republican dns / unified name registry thing
jurov: that's up to you how you normalize it. i see three levels - the public key itself (N), any additional information needed to verify signatures (e), and everything else
Framedragger: thanks for clarifying... so then it's just the same key. and things like 'IP of this key' really is a separate matter. (it was put into gpg user field as a matter of convenience of course.) should have been obvious...
jurov: to say it from another angle, you don't (and can't) have persons in the database. it's all just a key with some tags attached, not the other way around
Framedragger: right.. "it's the same person, for our purposes."
Framedragger: with regards to keyserver, my use of them makes me biased in the sense of thinking of keys as necessarily having user IDs in them. "key has some particular holder". not really the case i guess :)
jurov: and what are you actually building here? what is the cause? to make ornithological observations "this key was spotted at address X at time Y" or something?
Framedragger: well. for one, it's nice if you can distinguish between different keyholders, no? in the particular case of ssh-rsa keys, "which ip used this key?"
jurov: have you considered using N alone as the ID? or it's impractically long?
Framedragger: kind of require the use of one*
Framedragger: (one more note, even if alf or sb protests use of particular hashing func for fingerprint scheme, the fact of the matter is that one does kind of require for a universal fingerprinting scheme to exist.)
mircea_popescu: ie, if P uses 8 boolean flags and 31 one byte settings then e can be a 32 byte value
mircea_popescu: in principle the e, N part can be arbitrarily lengthy, with the semantizating convention that "e" represents "settings" and N represents "values". should be perfectly possible to describe any future key in these terms irrespective of cryptosystem.
Framedragger: (well, the scheme as proposed does use a particular hashing func (sha256), so that part is contestable i suppose.)
Framedragger: in P, alf wants to have hashing func etc be defined within the key itself. but maybe all that is not relevant for the purposes of a universal fingerprint scheme.
mircea_popescu: would work. moreover the scheme is flexible enough to allow for later extension
mircea_popescu: may be an idea to use the same scheme yes.
mircea_popescu: note that because of alf's more complex hashing scheme you actually get closer to "permanent" urls than the imperial key servers can get.