asciilifeform: approx 0.2s is eaten by transmission on net from BingoBoingostan to my chair; the rest is eaten by the www server somehow
asciilifeform: err, nginx there, presently. interestingly, set up as experiment 'wsgi', python's equiv. of php's 'mod-php', and made ~no measurable diff !
asciilifeform: ... 100% of the time diff, apparently, in response req time
asciilifeform: culprit, apparently , the frontend
asciilifeform: but!! only via apache ! i.e. time curl http://127.0.0.1:5002/log dun show either the variance or the slowdown.
asciilifeform: interestingly, seems to vary there by factor of ~2x !
asciilifeform: ( on either log or phuctor )
asciilifeform: dulap aint currently swamped with loads, either
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-biology-is-destiny-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Biology Is Destiny. Adnotated.
mp_en_viaje: anyone recall the trilema article (maybe comment ?) where i was explaining that choice's not constructive, one gotta pick A-or-B or else C-or-D, can't pick imaginarily A-or-D because D doesn't exist in a system with A.
asciilifeform: dijkstra spent whole life killing trees on subj of deadlocking etc. but the subj is deep enuff for 9000 dijkstras.
asciilifeform: this is actually the interesting thing about multiprocesstronic proggies. as alluded to by spyked . the improbable -- is certain to eventually happen.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'delete file', it isn't quite a simple, cuz fs ops are potentially locking. i elided what means 'wipe the cache' for brevity, but there's a knob.
mp_en_viaje: then you can have logbot invalidate cache and wwwtron construct cache and happy life.
mp_en_viaje: point being, some duplication will hurt ~nothing anyway. you can keep them as they are, just drop the spurious design constraint
mp_en_viaje: could lib out the shared routines i guess
asciilifeform: that way reduce to 1 proggy, and all of the shared routines unduped.
asciilifeform: hm prolly i oughta have done it phuctor-style (where there's 1 .py and it can run either as wwwtron or 'eater' depending on cmdline params. )
mp_en_viaje: while it's sensible to have www and logbot separate programs, it makes stupid to have them on separate boxes.
asciilifeform: currently they do work separately, if one were to tunnel the pgism. but mp_en_viaje has the point, that 'who knows if this even will ever be needed'
mp_en_viaje: but it makes perfect sense to make them same unit, and make multiples of the complete unit if need be for reliability. it makes anti-sense to create "across-box" db edges, and try and maintain the nonsense army of unlilely units that don't work separately anyway
asciilifeform: cuz of the above.
asciilifeform: in that case may as well make'em same proggy. tho i like being able to reset the www displayer w/out affecting bot.
asciilifeform: currently they indeed do.
mp_en_viaje: but they share a db and a filesystem, and are on same box.
asciilifeform: to keep all wwwism inside the wwwtron, and all ircism inside irctron.
asciilifeform: the logger is built deliberately not to assume that it is on same box as www.
mp_en_viaje: have the logger simply delete the file whenever it runs into a logreference. eg if i say http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-08-12#1841030 it erases 2018-08-12.html
asciilifeform: ( currently the only means of communication b/w logger and www end, is (excepting the search fetch) -- the DB )
asciilifeform: i was baking the cache
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:56:38 mp_en_viaje: whenever they're linked
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927665 << this , btw, will require some thought -- presently wwwtron has nfi 'when someone speaks' , can only query the db ( as can be seen in the 'last time anyone spoke' section of proggy ) which itself takes time
asciilifeform: i made the coloured blocks the lightest shade that'd still be distinguishable on my displays, imho this is Right Thing
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 18:08:25 asciilifeform: nobody has said anyffin re the checkerboard, i'ma keep it as stands then unless someone reports that it makes eyes bleed
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 17:39:54 bvt: so far i've been doing everything manually. for 10 vpatches, i would start automating the process. typicall i'd run full test set for each vpatch
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928103 << in a word, i dunno it'd make a difference ; but it's the sorta thing only time will really tell.
asciilifeform: ( and it'll go into the next patch )
asciilifeform: nobody has said anyffin re the checkerboard, i'ma keep it as stands then unless someone reports that it makes eyes bleed
asciilifeform: will put this in on the staging box / bot
asciilifeform: re the 0x01 -- iirc these can't even occur in utf8! so prolly could simply filter'em out entirely
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 17:01:08 bvt: asciilifeform: re ctcp, you can spot /me messages in the curl output of your logger: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sUDA5/?raw=true (extra ' 01 ' byte)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928088 << i noticed the spurious 0x01, assumed it was py's utf heap o'rubbish improperly decoding. how do these appear from /me ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 16:44:50 bvt: asciilifeform: there is another thing that i just noticed that different between phf's logger and yours: single quote (') is encoded as ' in phf's logger, and as &apos in yours -- and &apos happens to be totally broken in links graphical mode (links -g). i can fix this on the links side, but i wonder if this is intended/acceptable behavior
bvt: so far i've been doing everything manually. for 10 vpatches, i would start automating the process. typicall i'd run full test set for each vpatch
mp_en_viaje: if you do a total of 100 unit tests, does it matter if you do them in sets of 9-11-9-11 for 10 patches or in sets of 23-27-23-27 for 4 patches ?
bvt: the two things for comparison -- less total number of vpatches at cost of vpatch size, or more vpatches, but smaller ones?
bvt: but again, i think the first to points are more important; the third one has less priority (at least for me).
BingoBoingo: Assorted news landings submitted for the historical record: https://archive.is/WYl3C https://archive.is/FxPWb Some lulz present including "The peso didn't fall, the USD just happened to climb 30% in a day"
bvt: and i know that when re-signing multiple vpatches, i would have done the same thing individually for each vpatch.
bvt: well when i was re-signing another vtools vpatch at phf's request (for keccak regrind), i did the full re-testing as when releasing it the first time, to make sure that everything is ok.
bvt: there is also an aspect of potential future re-signing work on regrinds, which forces bigger vpatches, but imo the first two are more important
bvt: mp_en_viaje: i think there are two aspects: 1. readability (whether readers would be able to understand what is going on; in that vpatch the changes are local enough); 2. atomicity (whether someone would ever want to have one fix without the other; here my position is much weaker -- perhaps someone would want to have a crash on empty vpatches?)
bvt: asciilifeform: re ctcp, you can spot /me messages in the curl output of your logger: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sUDA5/?raw=true (extra ' 01 ' byte)
mp_en_viaje: speaking of http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/vpatch-support-for-files-in-vtree-root/comment-page-1/#comment-57 what's even the guidance ? "fix one issue" ? something else ?
bvt: asciilifeform: there is another thing that i just noticed that different between phf's logger and yours: single quote (') is encoded as ' in phf's logger, and as &apos in yours -- and &apos happens to be totally broken in links graphical mode (links -g). i can fix this on the links side, but i wonder if this is intended/acceptable behavior
asciilifeform: achtung panzers : test of next ver of log www ; spyked you have the newtab thing ; mp_en_viaje you have the checkerboard (lemme know if would rather darker/lighter) ; asciilifeform gets http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log?rev=1 reversal
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-the-biggest-dick-ever-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - The Biggest Dick Ever. Adnotated.
mp_en_viaje: georgetown folk should have instead lobbied for "right to put any hobo found in driveway to work for the day". then -- subway could've brought all the hobos it wanted.
asciilifeform last yr had to take a crapple box in for warranty repairs there. garbage errywhere.
asciilifeform: today -- no subway there. but hobos a-plenty.
asciilifeform: there was a similar wank in usa, incidentally, in '70s when the wash. subway was built. there's a 'posh' neighbourhood, georgetown, where the locals successfully lobbied against subway stop. 'will bring hobos!111'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc there was a trilema piece re argentards protesting a... bus stop
mp_en_viaje: honestly i never followed the tardeluge that closely, somehow only ugly chicks live in the core. hotties universally peripherical.
asciilifeform: recall when 1 of these fired rpg7 at fr reactor ?
mp_en_viaje: the euro retardkids mostly complain that industry still exists.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: near as i could tell, they were 'protesting' the theoretical non-reelection of obummer. vanished within coupla days of 2012 continuation in office.
mp_en_viaje: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Against_the_Airport_and_its_World.jpg
mp_en_viaje: to protest "capitalism" and "the consumerist culture".
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: they had this in usa, massive public wank, 'occupy'(tm)(r)
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in "the orc future of the zeklands" lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_to_Defend quite illustrative
asciilifeform: ( no public word , naturally, in re how much coin the 'inspectors' w/ the prng key, walk out with, and with what regularity )
asciilifeform: typical cheats, in so far as they reach the open literature, involve the coin dispenser, rather than rng per se.
asciilifeform: the other interesting casinoism is that in usa, rng is a sealed box provided by usg. but iirc had already thread about this, in '13
asciilifeform: also, or goes the legend, anyone who was in some way party to the design of the game instruments, is persona non grata in casino (e.g., asciilifeform's brother, who has never set foot in a casino nor wanted to; one time his (long-defunkt) firm was contracted to make a pokerator... )
mp_en_viaje: after seeing the line-of-cabs edifice of socialism this doesn't even strike me as unlikely
mp_en_viaje: nowadays they don't even PERMIT monte carlo, the new (transparently java) craps have like 10-15-20-25 four options for a bid sort of thing
mp_en_viaje: i used these to great effect once, was on trip to serbia with then very recently enslavbed hanbot, proceeded to extract a few hundy out of the machines by monte-carlo-ing them out of their engineering assumptions. happened to be more than the whole weekend stay cost, gave her great story to rely the greatness of her master.
asciilifeform: was snoar ( to asciilifeform , who had to 'try 1nce' but otherwise indiff. to such pasttime ) . machine -- ate coin. left.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, oh, the slot things huh.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the 1 i actually went into, in timis, was in fact automated, like old arcades
mp_en_viaje: anyway, in my country you can just take the money and leave.
asciilifeform: the dumb shits build'em on outskirts of city, tho, where hardly anyone goes
asciilifeform: btw 'vhs' people think 'america -- casino -- vegas!111' but in fact most of usa has some form of (bureaucrat-run) casino, and typically is little diff. from the ro item, and fulla 80 y.o. pissing away their last cent to ~simulated, 3d~ horse race
asciilifeform: or what were they called in orig, i fuighet
mp_en_viaje: you know the fucktards in minsk ~actually asked me for id~ ?!
mp_en_viaje: finally everyone reached the same bottom, so there's little point in discussing romania apart from yurp
mp_en_viaje: then sometime around 2004 or so the ro bureaucracy started getting online, resulting in the usual shitfest, "online publications", all the pretense to "the guardian" and "new york times" etc.
mp_en_viaje: that was more substantially the 2nd ro internet generation, late 90s to mid 2000s
asciilifeform: incl. some spam/shitware folx who had... rather porous system , and could see their internal lulz
asciilifeform: phunphakt -- for many yrs, asciilifeform's only exposure to ro folx was -- inhabitants of virii-themed forums
snsabot: Logged on 2018-04-18 21:58:18 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : i can't recommend the dsc-rx100 quite warmly enough. it's a splendid sony compact with zeiss lenses that's easily the best camera i ever saw.
asciilifeform: early ro net is still largely 'dark matter' to asciilifeform ( tho moar penetrable than e.g. the finns; at least in ro human lang , lol )
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927942 << he made more bitcoin than ~all of romania (ever) via old mp-run digg thing, for instance. i dunno, he was one of the less-retarded kids blogging in romanian in the mid 2000s
mp_en_viaje: yeah, makes sense. as in -- i can understand the fungal path
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: thinking about it, it's outgrowth of tcp retardation, where having the client alive costs the server at all times
mp_en_viaje: just... there's the obvious cut that the server dpesn't specifically care whether ny client is up or down ; yet each client cares whether server exists or doesn't. well... so to the victor go the spoils then, let the curious ask.
asciilifeform: in trad irc, server periodically asks 'PING blah' and client expected to 'PONG blah' back (why? if it's a tcp pipe? what's the whole point of tcp, orig, if not to avoid this? dun ask me)
asciilifeform: rather than general case
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, laugh but it's the model im contemplating re eulora
asciilifeform: ( which dun mean it is illusory; snsabot has been on the air for <week )
asciilifeform: so far the only fleanode nail i've stepped on, is that 'maybe you joined chan or maybe not' thing
asciilifeform: ( nor do they have any relevance to how to write bots )
mp_en_viaje: part of them are baked in, freenode runs ircd 3
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: afaik we dun use these for anyffin
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927932 << holy hell, i'm not equal to that task. besides ctcp and dcc, there's even a microsoft-led attempt at embrace-and-extinguish from the 90s (it went nowhere) ; there was a broadly accepted pantsuitization of irc cca 2005 ("isupport"), various nsa-sponsored nonsense ("dancer", "hyperion", "protoctl")...
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: tried to make 'new tab'ism go this morning, when spyked mentioned it, but it'll take some fiddling -- interacts poorly with the regexp-based link highlighting i used in this hasty drumhead logger. so prolly won't happen until much later.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927928 << i'd rather you just leave links plain ; but i don't have that strong feelings on the matter.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, hi there.
mp_en_viaje: refered to as "a soul" when contrasted with that drawing of replicants, or "theorems to prove" when discussing the lost to nativity.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:02:39 mp_en_viaje: 3) the whole of it was always hanging out with the cool people. i don't mean, "cool", as in, swag. i mean cool as in david lynch quote above, dork bought a 12 room house for $3500 in th worst gangland he could find for his wife and newborn kid and lived there, "the fear was palpable"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 10:36:26 spyked: tru imaginar." which looks like the main issue: while scrolling on "fb feed" back in 2014, /me felt how he was becoming dumber.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927917 << i don't think that's the ~main~ issue. i think that's the secondary issue ; with the main issue being http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926670 -- specifically that anything crawling out of cunt can be taught to be polite, socially inocuous, culturally unobtrustive, etc. but NOT everything can be taught to have something to say, a driver inside, the thing here sometimes
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 07:24:23 mp_en_viaje: that guy was eminently ALSO capable, in the of-this-list sense fo capacity. he wandered off on his own power, there was no "meet mp" moment iirc. but there's inescapably, overpoweringly, a difference between the daimons (one of the first trilema participants, back in 2009), and the phfs (as it happens, the most recent "victim" of my "abusive" approach to disreality) of the world, and nicole on the other.
asciilifeform: wanted to nail down the basic knobs before any 'decorative'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 05:59:50 spyked: asciilifeform, minor nitpick re snsabot: I see no difference in the www interface between CTCP actions (the /me thing) and normal replies. e.g. I would expect ^ to be rendered as "spyked also tried ..." instead of "spyked: also tried".
diana_coman: spyked: fwiw re daimon - he came in and asked me for a rating years ago as if it was a village and I should know it was "him"; once I figured out which "Alex" he was, I rated him; then even pulled and pushed him to try eulora - he resisted it and never made it.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927864 << i must be the only 1 who runs a 7bit ascii shell...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 06:22:11 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927780 << I do not expect that's his blog ; item is work of (relatively) well known internet lulzcow, one David Futrelle, a one-time pick-up artist / big man leadership dood meanwhile turned on the other side of the "BUT OBVIOUSLY, do we still have to DO this" cvasi-debate.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927840 << vaguely suspected it was a trololol link rather than his actual www...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 06:08:14 diana_coman: I also ctrl-click so didn't notice but I don't see the reason to bake in "new window"
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927817 << it's actually on the list, simply didn't make it into the 1st ver. asciilifeform for instance sometimes reads log on pnojes and similar keyboardless terminals, it is handy there.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927806 << 'mplayer' is all i have on most boxen (the ones which even have sound..)
spyked: tru imaginar." which looks like the main issue: while scrolling on "fb feed" back in 2014, /me felt how he was becoming dumber.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 07:12:56 mp_en_viaje: in other news, holy shit spyked that daimon carcass is sad. whole thing fucking became an epitaph of derealisation. "gândește-te așa: dacă azi ai asculta Mafia pentru prima dată, te-ar impresiona atât de tare încât te-ai duce la un al doilea concert?" ; "mă simt oarecum … scos din schemă. Watching from afar, vorba francezilor. Zbaterile locale devin maxim amuzante. Vin firme noi pe piața din Timișoara, îmi inundă inboxul pe Linked
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927871 <-- also worx. afaik they use the same codecs for the most part, ffmpeg mostly.
diana_coman: in fairness, I don't use python much - last time I used it was years ago for generating the Eulora cookbook aka a bunch of static html pages from various data
asciilifeform: ty diana_coman . i will mirror it & the sigs on my www also.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 17:09:12 diana_coman: ah, ah; if you want it there, I can add it (tomorrow though), sure; meant to ask: why no author field in your manifest?
diana_coman: I patched it on top of asciilifeform's tree as promised yesterday http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927521 (+ added the author field in manifest file) + mirrored the full logotron tree on my page
diana_coman: asciilifeform and anyone else interested in the awk log converter from irssi : http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-985.0-985.18
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 06:54:58 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927795 << nope, they're in my own logs too seeing how i put them into teh chat with my own hands.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927867 << this solves ~half~ of lobbes's riddle. observe that they work , when i throw'em in ( as well as all uniturds in phf's and diana_coman's dumps , imported w/out issue )
ave1: There seem to be 3 states; 16, with child, old
ave1: Yes, they all look like 16 year olds
mp_en_viaje: let them figure out how to grow girls that don't look like little boys.
mp_en_viaje: http://ave1.org/comments/feed/ << missed diana_coman not in the feed (and obv also not in the shorted list on blog side) so now i dunno what it was!
ave1: I am sorry, somehow between all the spam of "I like your writing style" it got eaten.
mp_en_viaje: ave1, your pics break across the blog
ave1: diana_coman: It seems one of your comments ended up in the spambox. Could you try again?
mp_en_viaje: that guy was eminently ALSO capable, in the of-this-list sense fo capacity. he wandered off on his own power, there was no "meet mp" moment iirc. but there's inescapably, overpoweringly, a difference between the daimons (one of the first trilema participants, back in 2009), and the phfs (as it happens, the most recent "victim" of my "abusive" approach to disreality) of the world, and nicole on the other.
mp_en_viaje: "oh, the notre dame burned down, huh", vorba francezilor.
mp_en_viaje: in other news, holy shit spyked that daimon carcass is sad. whole thing fucking became an epitaph of derealisation. "gândește-te așa: dacă azi ai asculta Mafia pentru prima dată, te-ar impresiona atât de tare încât te-ai duce la un al doilea concert?" ; "mă simt oarecum … scos din schemă. Watching from afar, vorba francezilor. Zbaterile locale devin maxim amuzante. Vin firme noi pe piața din Timișoara, îmi inundă inboxul pe Linked
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 04:39:45 spyked: BingoBoingo, re. linux music player: I was using cmus and rhythmbox at the time (and before that I used "banshee", some bloatware written in C#/mono) and they both eventually cracked under the pressure, in different ways (segfault or hanging). so I fell back to more lightweight frontends for mplayer, e.g. mpv, and found out again that scriptability far surpasses the need for any GUI/TUI
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 00:04:32 lobbes: could be... hence I think mp_en_viaje is right: I'ma have to publish so the real doctors can help me dissect it
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 00:02:17 asciilifeform: or hm lobbes , can you elaborate re the internals of your thing ? does it put into wp at some pt , and ~it~ 'smartly' replaced % with ÷ and so on ??
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927795 << nope, they're in my own logs too seeing how i put them into teh chat with my own hands.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 00:00:51 asciilifeform: how thefuq did that even come outta anybody's keyboard tho !!
mp_en_viaje: (i end up leaking these in because of other software written by finnicky people who don't like / or * because "there are correct signs for that")
mp_en_viaje: whole thing seems to be mostrly me using the proper math symbols of mult and division. i R-epent ?!
mp_en_viaje: also explains why it never goes that way, like you say. if it's something you only do when you're poor, there's never going to be olympics of it -- those guys ain't poor.
mp_en_viaje: this kinda proves the "fundamentally uninteresting" point to my eyes.
mp_en_viaje: see, daydreaming as an activity is a switchoff, always there when... reality goes under a certain threshold. daydreaming is the backup girlfriend, the one you call when better plans for friday night failed.
diana_coman: but somehow they still seem perfectly able to go about it until they die (and apparently they don't die of boredom either)
mp_en_viaje: the problem with daydreaming is that it's fundamentally uninteresting, even to the kids themselves.
diana_coman: it just seemed to me that Anon(s) was pouring so much effort into constructing all sorts of "he's bad" about anyone as soon as it seemed "safe" to do it that..well, maybe he finally gets the idea of pouring that effort into something more useful
mp_en_viaje: i dunno if the orig Anon still writes even.
mp_en_viaje: the Anon on trilema was for a few years genuine anon person, but then someone figured out the email, like in the satoshi incident later, so now it's in principle anyoen who knows about that.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 23:42:08 asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere, the 'chi non piscia in compagnia' anon in mp's comments apparently has this as his www ...
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927780 << I do not expect that's his blog ; item is work of (relatively) well known internet lulzcow, one David Futrelle, a one-time pick-up artist / big man leadership dood meanwhile turned on the other side of the "BUT OBVIOUSLY, do we still have to DO this" cvasi-debate.
mp_en_viaje: there's dcc, which while useless at least has historical logic, tryna compete in the field of the time, file transfer. because ~anyone wanted irc wanted so as to sext
spyked: diana_coman, ty for the reference. btcbase does distinguish ctcp from the rest of msgs by... removing the ":" after the nick. I don't think it's a big deal either way, just noticed it while reading html log.
mp_en_viaje: has this one visible tentac le here, otherwise does all sorta idioti things, i turn it all off on my clients
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: myeah, to me all www looks like "big pile of chairs that nobody ever cleaned up at all either"
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, do you see value in maintaining the "ctcp" pile ?
mp_en_viaje: wtf OTHER targets were contemplated such that target=n or target=new were both not good enough ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 11:03:43 diana_coman: asciilifeform: actions seem to show in logger as text said rather than in any way different; is that intended? I don't quite grok what's the thing with *nick then?
mp_en_viaje: "oh, so they were retarded."
mp_en_viaje: wtf pile of eyesore and assorted sadness html spec turns out to have been. all sorts of dangling nonsense a la above, it's the one midden that'll say the least flatterinfg things about humanity to the future archeologist.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i have been taking them out from tlp for instance.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927733 << there's certainly a size limit.
diana_coman: I also ctrl-click so didn't notice but I don't see the reason to bake in "new window"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 22:33:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't resist to ask, didja actually work through the ro, or relying on googlefish etc ? cuz if it's the latter, yer certain to step on some sharp nails
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 20:44:08 BingoBoingo: Ah, how much simpler the world was on its surface a decade ago http://trilema.com/2009/treceti-pe-open-source/
mp_en_viaje: let links be links and ctrl-click them when you want a new window, why not.
mp_en_viaje: and i always ctrl-click anyways so i don't notice ; but i suppose might be desirable for some ? though, why have it baked in when you have the ctrl key to make up your own adventure ?
mp_en_viaje: spyked, honestly i wouldn't support the distinction.
spyked: also, a matter of personal preference: I've grown used to the btcbase behaviour of links opening in a new window. is this desirable/annoying? does anyone else care?
spyked: asciilifeform, minor nitpick re snsabot: I see no difference in the www interface between CTCP actions (the /me thing) and normal replies. e.g. I would expect ^ to be rendered as "spyked also tried ..." instead of "spyked: also tried".
lobbesbot: spyked: Sent 7 hours and 49 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> re: http://daimon.me/blog/2012/05/winamp-ruleaza-cat-si-doua-vorbe-despre-linux/#comment-8147 the music player for linux is cmus
spyked: BingoBoingo, re. linux music player: I was using cmus and rhythmbox at the time (and before that I used "banshee", some bloatware written in C#/mono) and they both eventually cracked under the pressure, in different ways (segfault or hanging). so I fell back to more lightweight frontends for mplayer, e.g. mpv, and found out again that scriptability far surpasses the need for any GUI/TUI
lobbes: could be... hence I think mp_en_viaje is right: I'ma have to publish so the real doctors can help me dissect it
lobbes: asciilifeform: essentially, there's a ZNC logger and files. Then I have a cronjob that runs the heathen logs2html, then another cronjob that transfers these files to the /var/www/ side
asciilifeform: note also that ~this~ alone wouldn't turn it to barf, the above lines logged and display correctly
lobbes: in either case, re: upstack I'm going to take mp_en_viaje's advice and just genesis the eulora logger as-is. It is a good point that nobody has to use the genesis *as is* (and indeed, publishing today means I can look back on it tomorrow)
asciilifeform: or hm lobbes , can you elaborate re the internals of your thing ? does it put into wp at some pt , and ~it~ 'smartly' replaced % with ÷ and so on ??
asciilifeform: how thefuq did that even come outta anybody's keyboard tho !!
lobbes: asciilifeform: re: that upstack Q, perhaps you are right. There was a link to some shithub source iirc
lobbes: Hopefully someone else has cleaner ZNC logs. But fwiw in the meantime, I've produced a list of the problem indicies/original logdate/loglines >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3yWtw/?raw=true
snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:43:58 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: regarding a) it is because even if genesis-ed the user would need to install and use pip >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-28#1925233
asciilifeform: climbing upstack, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927615 << lobbes why is this ? i haven't encountered yet a pythonism that actually ~demands~ 'pip', they're all installable manually (and/or, on older gentoo boxen not yet hosed -- via 'portage' )
lobbes: As for *why* these have rotted so: I am not sure. My best guess is that it is because my current #e logotron does many copy operations per hour from the ZNC files (though this is just a stab in the dark; I really don't know if this would cause bitrot)
asciilifeform: 'We Hunted the Mammoth is an ad-free, reader-supported publication written and published by longtime journalist David Futrelle, who has been tracking, dissecting, and mocking the growing misogynistic backlash since 2010, exposing the hateful ideologies of Men’s Rights Activists, incels, alt-rightists and many others.'
asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere, the 'chi non piscia in compagnia' anon in mp's comments apparently has this as his www ...
asciilifeform: we'll 'manual clean' if there is 0 other choice, but presently would rather know wtf happened to this thing
asciilifeform: lobbes: i recommend to instead find out how the fuck it got into this condition
lobbes: I'm going to do some manual cleanup of the ZNC logs that correspond to the indicies you mentioned at least. Noted on the 983234 stop point
asciilifeform: lobbes: there may be others after 983243 also (current proggy stopped there cuz null line, will fix in coming days, had nfi fleanode permitted lines of length 0)
lobbes: oh wow, yeah I'm seeing the bitrot in the ZNC logs I fed to the thing. Very weird. But ty for the list of indicies; this will help
asciilifeform: the culprit will have to be found before this archive can be eaten, lobbes ; i suspect that the bitrot aint limited to uniturds
asciilifeform: take a look at the listed indices
asciilifeform: lobbes: interestingly, the uni-spam aint where choked
asciilifeform: there's no dispute that py sux
lobbes: just more to add to the 'python sux' pile I suppose (or perhaps just my coding sux pile)
lobbes: ftr, here is the current incarnation of the eater.py : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0DrbZ/?raw=true
asciilifeform: lobbes: i am not gonna try to clean this, unless there is no other log, i suspect something unspeakable happened to it somewhere in transit to my desk
asciilifeform: however, lobbes , these all seem to contain mysterious unibarf
asciilifeform: lobbes: i'm getting buncha utf8 eggogs when trying to eat in the staging box
asciilifeform: sigs are for to verify, they aint decorative, lol
lobbes: though still puzzled why last clearsigned version didn't deed... I checked a few more times for sanity and the sig verified for me
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't resist to ask, didja actually work through the ro, or relying on googlefish etc ? cuz if it's the latter, yer certain to step on some sharp nails
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell spyked re: http://daimon.me/blog/2012/05/winamp-ruleaza-cat-si-doua-vorbe-despre-linux/#comment-8147 the music player for linux is cmus
BingoBoingo: Ah, how much simpler the world was on its surface a decade ago http://trilema.com/2009/treceti-pe-open-source/
asciilifeform: * deedbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) << trinque ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-05-07 22:06:11 asciilifeform: nao! there ~were~ text processors designed by thinking people, where it ~was~ possible to write a readable proggy with predictable failure conditions. e.g. 'snobol'. but these, buried under 30yrs of sediment, will take serious archaeology to unearth.
asciilifeform: ... or, on the other end of things, snobol for string-wrangling instead of regexps...