ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: don't set it in stone, things move very slowly in the republic.
asciilifeform: 'I worry that people don’t appreciate how weird this is. I didn’t appreciate it for a long time. I guess I just figured that Grandpa used to talk about how back in his day movie tickets only cost a nickel; that was just the way of the world. But all of the numbers above are inflation-adjusted. These things have dectupled in cost even after you adjust for movies costing a nickel in Grandpa’s day. They have really, genuinely dect
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: good to hear. If you or anyone else has something they want the archiver to do, speak now.
ben_vulpes: sure beats reading the source on over-modal'ed websharts
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes only mentioned it in the sense of "worth it moreso than for stupid solar power bs".
ben_vulpes: oh god the microcontrollers
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, actually. i saw some harvest an acre of dicks, on their hands and knees.
ben_vulpes: depends on when mine come in relative to how strong the sun is at that time of year.
ben_vulpes: highly dependent on when the crop comes in
mircea_popescu: (in fairness though, inflation didn't go over 10 before the monkey went into office)
ben_vulpes: better throw out the family canning tools i guess
mircea_popescu: also there's
ben_vulpes: "why have healthcare costs quintupled over the past three decades?" "did you roll your children in dirt today?" "no?" "well there you have it"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 'we' are mitigating against the star topology in all sorts of stupid and entertaining ways
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: the current favourite, archive.is, is able to display the ~text~ of pretty much every linked turd (no matter how encrusted) without ~forcing~ viewer to enable js. can yours do this ?
gabriel_laddel_p: what I think: if someone has js turned on in their browser, it's because they want js. If turned off, they don't want it. I, at least, want an-accurate-as-possible archive of whatever shows up in the logs, including arbitrary files, videos etc.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so are we building the republican farms in costa rica ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is demonstrably impossible in the general case (unless you count html turd with img tags and pages as bitmaps as 'well-formatted')
mircea_popescu: i never watch them.
mircea_popescu: turning pdfs into proper (small, well formatted) html would be useful, cut adobe out of the document loop. videos meh.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: there are not so many youtube clips worth saving, and probably best handled on case by case basis, manually
gabriel_laddel_p: are there any links in the logs that need special treatment for archival? Current list: download youtube videos & pdfs.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes rando eyeballs webshit trying to pr on top of the newsfeed. been going on since forever, not specifically more related ot the topic than the coca cola xmas edition
ben_vulpes: of course to effectively transport the dirt i'm going to need to buy a trailer
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: funny you should mention raised beds, $girl finished the second yesterday.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Then make some raised beds and take it with you. Or buy bogmine in pete_dushenski fashion.
ben_vulpes: not particularly interested in large scale soil amendment projects largely benefitting others
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: More you buy it from a mine of sorts, usually in Canada, and the fact of its extraction is why you must buy it while it still is cheap
ben_vulpes: or does it come from some bog somewhere, extracted at rates far greater than the bog can replenish
ben_vulpes: in with these other words whose meanings have drained from them at the hands of leftists bloodletters
ben_vulpes: "when core democratic ideals feel under attack" << core democratic ideals! feel! a+ "assuming the sale" right there
mircea_popescu: these however are spuriounions.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 17:44 mircea_popescu: holy shit "Quaternion.Euler" is a full blown core function. and wait, there's more : http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/765683/when-to-use-quaternion-vs-euler-angles.html
ben_vulpes: "hi i have a rudimentary understanding that some words related to mathematics exist and have spent too much time glomming strings together. please kill me!"
ben_vulpes: what the FUCK
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: from your earlier rag : http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/13/rapper-busta-rhymes-slams-trump-as-president-agent-orange-during-fiery-grammys-performance/
pete_dushenski: in other teamwork, looks like j. trudeau didn't completely faceplant when meeting with agent orange today http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/02/13/joint-statement-president-donald-j-trump-and-prime-minister-justin-trudeau
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski first solid example of the tru power of crowd sourcing. except it's not exactly a crowd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was here for the past half hour, ended up witha pile of other articles. for instance http://trilema.com/2010/a-fi-fraier/ whiuch i think ima atranslate comments and all.
a111: Logged on 2014-09-08 22:35 mircea_popescu: "Thank you for this clarification Mr. Nakamoto. It has been an honor to be labeled by my friends as "Satoshi's Drunk Uncle" and it's a moniker I'll wear proudly until the day I retire from Crypto. The Goldcoin (GLD) developers truly admire your work and strive to continue improving upon its design as a tribute to your unparallelled genius. Your admirer and relative in spirit, MicroGuy."
mircea_popescu: could be played straight, title, description of the event, last line is "by the way this happened in 2013."
a111: Logged on 2013-03-28 13:15 mircea_popescu: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/28/hundreds-of-armed-vigilantes-seize-mexican-town-arrest-local-police/
a111: Logged on 2014-12-10 00:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article (or perhaps a thread here? but can't seem to find it...) about an archetypical u.s. expat. fellow keeps a pub somewhere in thailand, or cambodia, etc. the locals - drink for free. he fancies that if he begins to run out of dough, he can always start charging. but somehow in the back of his head he knows what will happen to his sorry arse if he were to do so.
PeterL: Gotta run, will be reading the log.
PeterL: I'll put it on the list of stuff to think about.
PeterL: The early earth astmosphere has been speculated to have been non-oxygen, before we could have aerobic metabolism first we needed a bunch of anaerobes shitting out oxygen, E.G.
mircea_popescu: heh. but you understand what i mean yes ? biological processes are chiefly defined through turning one class of substance into a narrower other class
PeterL: but I get the gist of what you are saying
a111: Logged on 2017-02-13 14:25 mircea_popescu: !~later tell peterl since you're both in the field and unlazy, here's a thought - i would like to see a quantitative history of life in terms of biopumps. i dunno that this was ever done, and it's a crying shame.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2KZaD7hFSM << 2 ru d00dz call u.s. congressmonkey, role play ukr, and convince her of 'war of the worlds'-style lulz
asciilifeform: 'didn't somebody tell you which three chairs are sittable on, from the 500 ?' etc
mircea_popescu: bitch. what the fuck DID you think of using it as, a dildo ?
mircea_popescu: now, SOMETIMES, it's like in the case of the lisp ai, where i was lazy and didn't actually provision properly.
mircea_popescu: this sort of thjing happens to me about every other project.
asciilifeform: 'unix philosophy'!! includes 'it will break and you won't know why until the smell of cooked flesh'
mircea_popescu: apparently i'm the first lightbulb to have come up with the theory that IF (and this is a very doubtful if in the first place) your backup process should fail according to the size backed up, then it is logical for it to faill for it being TOO SMALL, not for it being too big.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-13#1613539 << hey, cvasitheoretical physicists will always exist. and they'll always say ~the same things.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-13 16:10 asciilifeform: in quite other noose, https://archive.is/l7LmL >> e. voorhees apparently had been a loud, unabashed gavinist for ages
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-13#1613530 << the experience with the sec formed him, i guess.
mircea_popescu: what, i'm going to engage it as if it were for reals, now ? they "posited" whatever random bullshit, might as well be on wikireddit for all the difference it can make irl.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the pseudoscientific gunk you reviewed does not form part of this discussion though, they're as irrelevant to anything to do with people as the chirping of the birds.
mircea_popescu: 7th year of nigger != 8th year of nigger. same as with prikoke, the lifespan of domestic animals is a very peculiar nonliniarity.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-13#1613534 >> 'We are a group of condensed matter theory. Our specific study targets are materials which possess novel quantum properties such as topological insulators, low dimension materials with strong quantum confinement, and new materials with excellent quantum transport properties. We focus on material electronic and phonon properties and their optical, electromagnetic, thermal responses. Our res
asciilifeform: in other possible BingoBoingo/qntra fodder, https://archive.is/jMxrw >> 'TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — A state trooper was justified when he shot a 76-year-old man last summer inside a home mistakenly linked to a 911 call, an investigation by New Jersey's attorney general has concluded.'
asciilifeform: in quite other noose, https://archive.is/l7LmL >> e. voorhees apparently had been a loud, unabashed gavinist for ages
a111: Logged on 2017-02-13 14:29 mircea_popescu: coal must be taken in the form of live tree, or live leaf, or recently dead tree, or leaf, or bug, or somesuch. not as charcoal.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-13#1613506 << in none of the experimentation and blather through which i dug did anyone posit 'coal' as a carbon source. my limited understanding is that its role is threefold: surface area for bacterial colonization; surface area to ameliorate fertilizer runoff and leaching into the ground; and to improve porosity.
asciilifeform: ^ iirc there are at least half a dozen of these nao, and these are just the ~known~ cases
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in monkeystan, https://archive.is/372OG >> 'Francis Rawls, a former Philadelphia police sergeant, has been in the Philadelphia Federal Detention Center for more than 16 months. His crime: the fired police officer has been found in contempt of court for refusing a judge's order to unlock two hard drives the authorities believe contain child pornography. Theoretically, Rawls can remain jailed indefinitely until he complies.'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'loudly doing nothing at all' is a privilege of the brass. to grunts it remains to 'loudly feign activity'
asciilifeform: now i dun have an intel agency, or even dirigible, but i did read mr.t's campaign brochure and 'surrender to bitcoin' wasn't in there.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-13 13:06 mircea_popescu: consider that this is done on the very last limb of a huge apparatus of idle losers, maintained at very great expense by a tooth and claw fight to prevent trump appointments! the spy ustate rebells! etcetera!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-13#1613468 << if mr.t on the throne for 8 yrs and at the end of the 7th same exact thing still happens -- still work of 'hangers on' ?
BingoBoingo: Anyway, what's the problem. California was dry, now has water. Problem solved!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Until the water does it's thing, topping and crushing dam with the weight of... mebbe 3 or 4 celestial hamplanets
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the part that matters is undamaged! celestial empire in the sky, untouched by the corruption of matter!
BingoBoingo enjoys reports saying "dam is fine, undamaged" While substantial parts of the dam (i.e. spillways) are damaged.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: The truly amazing part is that Los Angeles is just going to drink that puddle dry again
mircea_popescu: anyway, the advantage of the above approach, at least from a "teach smart kids biology, physics and systems design" pov, is that it scales extremely well. discussion can be made as short or as infinitely complex as the bright young mind has patience for.
mircea_popescu: shinohai the auschwitz reference is oddly on point, because it was the first large scale encounter with a problem very much in this vein : if body goes long enough without sufficient intake, it eventually digests the proteins thatmake up the intake manifold for its protein digestion cycle, resulting in a situation where the body is alive but not for long, even if you feed it it can't digest anymore.
shinohai: someone has to keep the fires of auschwitz burning
mircea_popescu: so therefore, a history of life in terms of "first, you gotta get natrium pump going, as seen in thiomargarita. then, when enough X is piled up, (no less than q) you can start xantophyl pump. when enough etc etc"
mircea_popescu: now some of these pumps i know, but some, especially at the very early bacteria/algae/protist early history we probably do not know.
mircea_popescu: coal must be taken in the form of live tree, or live leaf, or recently dead tree, or leaf, or bug, or somesuch. not as charcoal.
mircea_popescu: turns out that yes, there IS an endothermic reaction available for coal, but nevertheless that notwithstanding, there IS NO microorganism that takes soil coal and turns it into c02 and its own livelihood.
mircea_popescu: which is why that ancient trilema article about my encounter with the aliens and the discussions re the nth roman empire and the perennial nature of the english language as well as more recently http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612893 and the coal in soil discussion.
mircea_popescu: to have mammals, you need the citric pump. this may not exist, physically, until enough precursors have been built up. they can only be built up by specific metabolic processes.
mircea_popescu: but if i physically extinguish life, it will have to go through its whole ontogenesis, not strictly because of gnosis problem (ie, WHO is doing the jumps ? life's extinguished, there's n oreserve medium) but because of a purely physical problem.
mircea_popescu: what i mean specifically is that if we turned all biomass to ash today, life wouldn't be able to just start right back up with people in the way computers would. if i break all the computers nobody's making the pentium 1 all over again.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !~later tell peterl since you're both in the field and unlazy, here's a thought - i would like to see a quantitative history of life in terms of biopumps. i dunno that this was ever done, and it's a crying shame.
trinque recalls the epic video of portlanders sliding down an icy hill one by one
trinque: isn't there some bureau for this? call the ministry of inconvenient weather. it's not like we're some poor country without one.
mircea_popescu: if you do something now and again, flood can be welcome respite. if you do things all the time OR NEVER, floods are threatening, existentially.
mircea_popescu: well, perversely, it either presupposes THAT or else as the more commonly the case in socialist states (really argentina is what the us was aspiring to be with ronald mcclinton) that they have 0 business to do anyway. in which case not being able to do particular subset x of the pile of things you weren't going to do anyway somehow stands out.
diana_coman: they get...disrupted? from what? by the sound of it, they just get one day of tv out of it; only twice a year, too, how unfair
mircea_popescu: these idiots, they get entirely disrupted by admittedly heavy rains twice a year, they flail about helplessly on tv about it THAT DAY and that's that, that's it, go right back to their regularly scheduled dickholding and netflix.
mircea_popescu: and in other hippy dippy weatherman, it's raining here with a purely tropical intensity. the city's going to be flooded again.
Reuel: I was looking for an article but forgot the name, in it you were talking about Eulora and most games being spreadsheets for people used to work spreadsheets or something like that
mircea_popescu: props to Reuel though, i think he noticed the same second it happened or some shit.
shinohai: !~weather
mircea_popescu: Reuel meanwhile confirmed, bout 20gpbs classic syn flood ; gear will be up and running in ~hour, come back then.
mircea_popescu: well, trilema has been online for a long time, eventually you get over the immediacy of it all.
Reuel: But it is some kind ddos then?
mircea_popescu: consider that this is done on the very last limb of a huge apparatus of idle losers, maintained at very great expense by a tooth and claw fight to prevent trump appointments! the spy ustate rebells! etcetera!
mircea_popescu: Reuel nah it's there. i suppose we've moved on to the 2017 testing of the infrastructure.
mircea_popescu: every dick and jane's expectation that "we did it reddit" is the faint echo of, man walked on the moon and generally speaking drove a wedge forcing a reevaluation of the celestial peerage. "as eternal as the nile flood" is no longer equal to "as eternal as the tide".
mircea_popescu: the great "march of progress" narrative is fed off discrete bits. for instance -- the nile created a flood plain. for tens of thousands of years. not anymore.
mircea_popescu: works where it works. not hydro power's fault all sorts of idiots wanna "make do with what they got"
ben_vulpes: stand back everyone i'm just going to deform the crust to perform a bit of geoatmospheric arbitrage
mircea_popescu: also cheapest power there is.
ben_vulpes: pretty serious risk of losing the emergency spillway apparently
BingoBoingo: toki: Solution is ???, Profit. Now for the important question: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
mircea_popescu: cue carlin's old "you go vote ; i'll go home to to approximately the same thing, but when i'll be done i'll have something to show for it."
hanbot: and the current star of my old trilema post appreciation: http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-we-pretend-to-be-miners-fo-real/
mircea_popescu: lol trump called cuban an-epithet-heard-on-trilema
mircea_popescu: in other desperations, "The Spy Revolt Against Trump Begins" http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-trump-administration-mike-flynn-russian-embassy/
davout: mircea_popescu: what was this article in which i remember you saying that the "super-rich" advocating for higher taxes was in fact a way to hurt the "reasonably-rich"?
mircea_popescu: and in other successful blowjobs, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e397539c09f19b121e357d2890dce6fa/tumblr_nst4f1ydiV1tcimvao1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: and in other shakes, http://68.media.tumblr.com/753256e456f2f4ea72cb4eb7fa893740/tumblr_odd9w7Oe9N1s4dxj3o1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: (trivial case : if d = 4r then l = r)
mircea_popescu: and for the amateur geometrian in attenance : given a radius r and a distance d, specify the length l of the average square a grille of total length d will cover the circle of radius r in.
mircea_popescu: yeah germany dropped foss these years.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/C0F5I >> '"The proposal aims to ensure that no later than by the end of 2020, a new Windows Basic Client should be the standard city client," a Munich city council spokesman said.'
mircea_popescu: linen is a pretty cool fabric altogether.
mod6: He said that it's very nice to hear someone wants one, he says that almost no-one even thinks about them or wants them. Which he thinks is crazy too, since it's so HUMID in the summer.
asciilifeform: china is 'black box' -- i for instance have genuinely nfi whether they nixed their equiv. of 'elbrus', or merely hid it. (and i know of nobody showing any symptom of publicly having half a clue re subj)
mircea_popescu: it was that rachel wouldn't shut up and wouldn't stop riding the cock.
mircea_popescu: or for that matter what sustained the jews through their 5k years. no, it wasn't "the sense of humor", LEL! no, it wasn't "the covenant"
mircea_popescu: sadly, the chinese are too smart to take them. that'd have been the historical way out of this predicament, and how venice survived eg, charles.
mircea_popescu: we're not fucking women. feelings don't enter into it. war before winter, and the wholesale of california 20yos to saudi princes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you drop the hand the moment you know it can't win, not the moment you feel you can afford to do so.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's a sort of refugarium were US companies that are too white to rassle Chinesium maintaim production under their own management.
asciilifeform: lel, war with the folx having planet's ~only remaining general-purpose industrial base. will go great
mircea_popescu: given all this : a) war with chinese must start today ; b) internment camp for us lefties should have already been a thing. the japs had no business being there in ww2. the us left has no business being alive.
mircea_popescu: the earth did open up, did swallow.
mircea_popescu: that's the whole "who could really imagine the earth could open up to swallow the immense resources of ingenuity of the us".
mircea_popescu: the latter spinner is spun from the former, but only as much as absolutely strictly needed.
mircea_popescu: and the "fake" spinner, which consists of turning the minds of the populace into dust, doing bizarro hollywood-like tournament markets.
mircea_popescu: the "real" spinner, which consists of turning the soil into dust to produce chinese real estate ; this is "farming" and "real estate development" and "mining" and etcetera. such as the soy production in argentina, now and again lulzed at in the logs. dudes totally gutted this place.
mircea_popescu: and the whole of the "us" ie really all nato ie really all white world - russia (and - the muslims, if you think they're wwhite) works a cycle which consists of two spinners
mircea_popescu: the chinese are at the same time pumping out manufactured goods. this is infinite quantity, as much as you can take, no problem.
mircea_popescu: the chinese are also willing to pay ~a little~ for umd services, namely, the stamping of "this chinese guy is as good as the best white man" on foreheads of their second sons.
mircea_popescu: so, the chinese are willing to pay for real estate ; either in the form of actual land, or in the form of distilled land as soy, mineral rights, etc. there's basically an infinite demand for this, they'll buy it all up, whole planet, no problem.
mircea_popescu: there is.
BingoBoingo: Well, there's still ass to mouth welfare cycle that feeds walmart and lowers farmers to pederasty
mircea_popescu: technically speaking the us economy is ~= egypt economy. the us has silicon valley, egypt has the luxor center for businessmen. fair crop.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "tech companies". basically all that's left of the us economy these days is inept dorks playing the "many web users matter!!11" roulette.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cook has a point. trump wh should launch a campaign (paid with public funds) denouncing the ~foreign propaganda~ pushed by the guardian and urging people not to read the libertard fishwraps, nyt&co.
asciilifeform: 'Just as major tech companies have accepted they have a social responsibility to combat piracy online and the illegal sharing of content, they also need to help address the spreading of fake news on social media platforms.' << didjaalsoknow.
asciilifeform: in other 'neinneinneinneinnein!'s, https://archive.is/q7bf1 >> 'Fake news is “killing people’s minds” according to Apple boss Tim Cook, who is urging the Government to launch a public information campaign to counteract the problem. Mr Cook called for a an awareness campaign similar to those which alerted people to health epidemics such as AIDS in the 1980s and environmental issues including the ozone layer in the 1990s.'
mircea_popescu: whole machinery's geared up to obstruct a naive nixon, trying to get shit done. it has exactly 0 solutions for the stark opposite.
mircea_popescu: his winning strat is to watch tv in bathrobe all day, and underline press reports. which is what's literally eating their hearts out.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's kind-of the hope, i guess, with all the "loyal disloyalty" and "leaks from wh" bs, that maybe he's doing something. except -- he isn't.
mircea_popescu: standard procedure. yeltsin bombarded the parliament building yes
asciilifeform: ^ is in the l0gz, was quite a read
asciilifeform: well what's the ??? step between 'they wouldn't let me!!' and the proverbial 'profit'
mircea_popescu: he doesn't actually need to do anything. all he needs is a good excuse as to why he isn't. so far - they're providing him it.
mircea_popescu: they're building up his cred, "hey, tried x, tried y, tried z, clinton wouldn't let me!"
mircea_popescu: way this works is as an empowerment engine. all trump has to do is keep a steady stream of loud but idiotic fixes coming ; for the judiciary to reject.
asciilifeform: if judiciary spins mr.t on its cock like propeller, however, it is not hard to picture obummercare, warmism, the whole orchestra, staying exactly where it is because 'customer has come to expect!' and 'they HAVE RIGHTZ!!!'
mircea_popescu: but nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: i still can't believe they actually opted to engage the judicial system. that was supposed to be the reserve. they've no reserves now.
mircea_popescu: they're not even going to try and defend obamacare ; or global warming. that's pretty much it. they're being outflanked on education $$$, there's literally nothing left. desperation moves from umd or the conclave of "tech giants" are just that, beaten dog sqealing because stepped on.
mircea_popescu: so far they're losing pretty badly.
asciilifeform: in other oddities, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607665 apparently picked up by the 'pantsuit' folk, https://archive.is/WnaUg >> '...and the nation sometimes needs them to check the president. James Schlesinger’s loyal act of disloyalty...'
asciilifeform: apparently the only evidence used in the arrest was the mention of this schmuck's name in logs stolen from some other dekulakization candidate.
asciilifeform: but stayed the man’s release pending a government appeal, set to be heard in Virginia on Friday. The feds are urging that Tverdokhlebov be held without bail, claiming that he has few ties to the U.S. and enough underworld contacts to flee to Mexico and from there to Russia.'
asciilifeform: but meanwhile, elsewhere in vast monkeystan, https://archive.is/lJxIm >> 'The indictment against Tverdokhlebov is based entirely on the years-old chats, with no hard information about specific thefts, suggesting that the feds are using it as a wedge to try and pry more evidence from Tverdokhlebov’s arrest and the search of his computers. Over government objections, a magistrate judge set Tverdokhlebov’s bail at $100,000 last week
asciilifeform: and -- i shit thee not -- 373M of src.
asciilifeform: and holy shit WHY IS ALL OF GCC IN THERE
asciilifeform: http://developer.amd.com/tools-and-sdks/cpu-development/x86-open64-compiler-suite << still has (what purports to be) the circa-2013 tarball.
mircea_popescu: me either. i suspect it's high time to copy everything one might ever need. because...
asciilifeform: (if archive.usg is to be believed, it disappeared from the net some time between march and june of 2015)
asciilifeform: http://www.open64.net << one of the few actual competitors of gcc (started life as sgi's compiler, published openly, retargeted to x64) VANISHED
mircea_popescu: "there's a difference between what you want and what you need ; and google will insistently, relentlessly give you what you want"
phf: holy fucking shit, i'm doing cursory google searches on the subject. "tree shaking gcc" results in all javascript articles. google helpfully expands gcc to "google closure compiler"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have the bins, with symbols, dwarf debug tags, etc. and this is a transformation i can do by hand in, say, ida. but the only reason i even have to think about it is that gcc is MILITANTLY stupid and gloms in trivially provably unused routines
mircea_popescu: if you don't have the binary's source, let's say you're holding smoke.
mircea_popescu: yeah well. can;t win them all.
asciilifeform: or for whatever other reason.
asciilifeform: the annoying part is that there is no reason at all why i should not be able to do this TO AN EXISTING BINARY
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is actually how the heavy industrial realtime ada folx do it. fork the standard lib.
mircea_popescu: take linking out of it altogether
mircea_popescu: seems the only approach is to simply not include not used functions.
asciilifeform: phf: rop is the bread, there is also the butter of actually nudging instruction pointer (stack/heap smash, overflows, etc) but sure.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-11#1613177 << http://phrack.org/issues/49/14.html (classic paper, in logs), then http://seclists.org/bugtraq/1997/Aug/63, then http://phrack.org/issues/58/4.html, then you can apply for a job at NSA, since that's basically all you need to know :p
phf: i thought that was the case since forever, last time i asked a question why gcc can't tree shake (10 or so years ago) i was told that i don't understand..
asciilifeform: 'This problem can't be appropriately solved with a linker, particularly not the GNU linker. GNU ld can only throw out sections, not unused functions or global variables; so if you've got a file containing 10 functions, 9 of which are unused, all ten will still get linked.' << for the imbecility museum
a111: Logged on 2017-02-11 00:27 asciilifeform: ROP is why you want not only 'fits-in-head' source of proggy, but the smallest binary physically possible.
asciilifeform: srsly forfuckssake if routine cannot be JMP'd into, i want it GONE FROM THE MOTHERFUCKING BINARY
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 17:24 thestringpuller: Maybe if log search was better ;)
BingoBoingo: Anyways, what'c the native soil like in your parts?
BingoBoingo: Also aero/hydro-ponics are for the poor (i.e. stoners)
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Other decent substrate is softwood bark composted to consistency of smooshed chocolate cake
ben_vulpes: in *entirely* unrelated lols, it turns out that various tribal security directives are to "use ms products and keep all data on local disk because we don't trust cloud because obvious tool of ministry of wtf." meanwhile, it dept struggling to wrap heads around how all of their files ended up on the ms cloud.
ben_vulpes: is he really selling that so hard? looks more like the organized organs of the left are pushing that angle and he's not fighting it terrifically hard, because why bother
asciilifeform: betcha all of their pay doesn't buy ~one~ discounted-f35
mircea_popescu: and consider -- he's selling the supreme strength of NOT having a bunch of these useless dorks employed as... a weakness.
ben_vulpes: plus that master stroke of "anti human trafficking" + instantiation of the gendarmerie-as-municipal-officer-coordination-office recently
ben_vulpes: these days, everyone watches twitter to see how donny's going to respond to something happening on the teevee, while he waves the red cloak of nordstrom or even just "make america great again" (which i fucking die laughing every time he tweets that phrase naked), while the white house press bureau releases some very well-written copy on "failure(s) to enforce sovereign duty"
mircea_popescu: obama fucked the left more than it fucked the us ; left them utterly incapable of mere survival.
mircea_popescu: and most amusing - they thought that's a show of strength.
ben_vulpes: the trifurcation of media, white house proclaimations and social media drivel compared to the last administration is very interesting
mircea_popescu: meanwhile gramps goes along with the charade, "for as long as they think i watch tv, what can they break"
mircea_popescu: so now they want to discuss whose ties are bad, who has bathrobes, and whether trump cares or doesn't care about the latest saturday night live.
mircea_popescu: the truth is after eight years of monkey in chief they're scarcely capable of anything but monkeying about. the dem party that lost to bush is such a sad memory for the democrat party of today. like 50yo sinatra to 90 yo sinatra.
asciilifeform: in east usa there is an infamous cable tv&modem monopoly, 'comcast', it renamed itself to 'xfinity' to fool idiots into 'ooh NEW ISP!'
asciilifeform: brands die, idiocies -- less often. they'll rename it, and hum along
mircea_popescu: or eight years of hussein bahamas the democrat party ?
asciilifeform: consider, fdiv bug did not end intel; the 1,000,001 remote 0days did not end microshit.
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, wind blows, bridge rips itself apart.
asciilifeform: intel's a crown-owned affair, effectively, it can only perish together with the crown. like, e.g., 'elektronika' did.
ben_vulpes: i wonder what the 'tacoma narrows' moment looks like for intel and friends.
asciilifeform: (in short: if somehow -- through whatever means -- enemy can nudge the instruction pointer, it has to be nudged ~somewhere~. if stack is not executable, or he cannot put anything useful there, the next best thing is a kind of 'junkyard wars' consisting of ~what is already loaded into your process's address space~.)
asciilifeform: ROP is why you want not only 'fits-in-head' source of proggy, but the smallest binary physically possible.
asciilifeform: (not an esp. good one, but apparently there is not such a thing as a good one)
asciilifeform: (same folx as were responsible for 'prohibiting' static linking. see, if no dynamically-linked crapolade in process memory space, AND deadcode eliminated, then ROP will be quite painful to arrange !!)
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: b-but free energy from the soil timecube
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Anyways if you want to promote "the right" bacteria in your dirt just grow legumes and do the whole crop rotation bsns
mircea_popescu: wasn't it of the future ?
thestringpuller: ironically there is still no steamos box
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you find that they are playable on a box with soft-emulated ('mesa') gpu, i will be pleasantly surprised
asciilifeform: but pointing out that the 'camel's nose' already long ago entered on any box where running, e.g., 'steam', is contemplated.
mircea_popescu: this isn't a theoretical discussion. i'm not about to upgrade libc.
asciilifeform: incidentally it is quite debatable imho whether a 'linux box' with closed-turd gpu driver is in any useful sense a linux box.
mircea_popescu: basicallyt the great success of the FOSS was that corporations used them to spearhead cost reductions. no longer is there any need to, for instance, offer any support. they're open source! except not.