asciilifeform: bvt: i still do not know whether socket 'was not closed, but wedged' somehow (in which case proggy oughta be made such as to find out, and close asap) or in fact closed but on acct of the idjit zombie-by-default thing, not reusable
bvt: asciilifeform: re SO_REUSEADDR - i don't see how it is applicable: as i understand errno 106=EISCONN the kernel believes that the socket is still connected (perhaps socket.timeout case in send()?); so if you proceed to connect without closing it, you'd get double connect on the same socket; and SO_REUSEADDR does not protect against this: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Zd3l
diana_coman: asciilifeform: for one thing it depends *whose* exam; for the other, the focus wasn't on "exam", no (doubt anyone would even "tune in" for... exam,lol); but anyway: another dose doesn't hurt, no.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: admittedly asciilifeform is not any kind of star pedagogue. but from own schooling, i found much moar memorable the lessons where 'and this is btw is also the tamper equation in hbomb!' than 'you Need To ... for exam!'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i actually dun know when/how precisely the fella tuned in. but will hazard a guess that it was because he had spark of 'hmm, these folx have working gears'. so i suspect best result with him might be to pour some kerosene on that fire. 'motivation from interest' is 9000x bigger fire than 'motivation from needs-to'.
diana_coman: eh, he needs to start chewing, not like there isn't *what*; but yes, I see what you mean.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i generally dun like to 'bring own vows to other's monastery' but wanted to try giving the fella sumthing to chew on. possibly is good idea .
bvt: ty; i wanted to download them via wget on remote machine, discovered bunch of .sig.1 files
asciilifeform: bvt: fixed!! and ty for the eagle eye.
asciilifeform: ( whether succeeded -- do not know yet. )
bvt: asciilifeform: the links to diana's sigs in your logotron post are wrong: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=aYq7
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934465 - from the point of view of achieving perfection - it definitely should be included. From the practical point of view -- noone would notice.
BingoBoingo: Here they make these nice little hand pies from the cow. Gotta reserve the pies baked in cow to feed the fields.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell nicoleci let me know what troubles you are having with your attempts to enter the shell. Also make sure you specify the right port.
diana_coman: eh, that's pretty much the ~only sort of pies actually available :p
mircea_popescu: nfi. maybe ask them
asciilifeform: ( for what are needed these 'new syntax, ...' -- aside from 'embrace & extinguish'(tm) -- remains a mystery to asciilifeform )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'wildmen attempt to tmsr' strange : 'Tauthon is a backwards-compatible fork of the Python 2.7.16 interpreter with new syntax, builtins, and libraries backported from Python 3.x. Python code and C-extensions targeting Python 2.7 or below are expected to run unmodified on Tauthon and produce the same output.'
mircea_popescu: get 'em while they're hot
asciilifeform would like another pie or 2
mircea_popescu: eh, i had all the pies i wanted anyways.
mircea_popescu: as i tell the slavegirls "when they most need my support", "do or fucking die ; and i don't particularly care which the fuck it is."
mircea_popescu: it'll solve all the world's problems regardless : either through zeroing, or else through solving.
asciilifeform: this algo does require a > 0 'the rest' tho.
mircea_popescu: stalin reference's not even wrong, afaik this was the historica conclusion of lenin-trotsky.
mircea_popescu: so -- yeah, hang all the promising adult-children by their guts wrapped around their ballsac, and see what you can do with the rest.
mircea_popescu: needless to say, i am deeply unimpressed with "promising", "famous" and the whole rest of the fucking cohort of fiatardation.
mircea_popescu: i hope to god they were just about to take a large bite out of a steel girder at high speed.
mircea_popescu: can stretch that "any minuite" cheese into two fucking years, and whenever you put a limti o nit, "oh, you fucked them up, they were just about to"
asciilifeform: fwiw i'm not even convinced that the 'human mushroom' lied in the customary sense -- but instead, fungus, i.e. passed off what his bob becks gave him, as fact.
mircea_popescu: problem are all the escaped puppets running about.
mircea_popescu: problem aren't all the tupolevs in gulag
mircea_popescu: just another dickpuppet, forget about it.
mircea_popescu deeply regrets having spent the earlier 2010s in a "oh, stallman, famous"
diana_coman: asciilifeform: does it seem to you there's danger of "nothing counterposes leukocyte"? because uhm, I can't quite see it.
mircea_popescu: what, you thought it's an idle thing ? it isn't. being old means shit'll happen, you'll fail to follow and end up the example.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:25:00 mircea_popescu: all sorta chuck moores, "famous" and apparently ever so good and useful, just WAITING for you to give them a chance to strangle you.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935137 << i gotta ask, what did the old astronomer do to mircea_popescu , to become this example ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935132 << this logic is appealing on surface, but recall that stalin ended up retrieving half-dead korolev, tupolev, et al, from gulag, when failed to find the imagined 'we dun have any irreplaceables here'(tm)(r) replacements .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:21:49 mircea_popescu: imagine, all this flurry of exciting new development could have been occuring in 2017, if i had the sense to kick phf out on his rear in 2017, rather than let him sit his dumb ass on us for two years.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935124 << dunno re the other folx , but mine is set to 'lotto' atm, it uses fleanode's rotator. which is arguably unseemly, but i dun have a 'list of working fleanodes' atm. would like to obtain one. hence 'let's log ip'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935119 << this is a deeper africanism than mircea_popescu suspects , and sadly not even limited to pythonisms. it comes from when hands grow out of arses, and folx write libs where the namespaces cannot be mixed, so yer stuck lib_a.foo lib_b.foo , cuz can't import a + b . seen it in adaisms , cl, elsewhere.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 04:09:21 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935086 << because the descriptors are maintained by the kernel not the userspace.
asciilifeform: ( the 1 in lobbes's latest vpatch is proper )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 03:56:22 ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:01:18 mircea_popescu;thinks: asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 11:01:15 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935114 << the "bene" is exactly how you'd think. The "vides" is actually "veedees". I usually tell people it 'rhymes with "diabetes"'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 03:56:22 ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:01:18 mircea_popescu;thinks: asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935134 << I'll take a gander into that weird. Ty for the heads up
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-09#1935114 << the "bene" is exactly how you'd think. The "vides" is actually "veedees". I usually tell people it 'rhymes with "diabetes"'
diana_coman: pfff, didn't mean to trigger the bug on her, lol; sorry, nicoleci
mircea_popescu: well there's a * deedbot gives voice to nicoleci you prolly msiread as "removes voice" ?
mircea_popescu: if you're !!up'd and then self-voice... deedbot will devoice you ?
mircea_popescu: ahaha check out the bug :
diana_coman: nicoleci: alternatively for the functions.php iirc you should be able to edit it from the blog's dashboard too, there's and Edit option in there too.
diana_coman: nicoleci: ok, but he'll prolly need the concrete barf/how it fails to help you out anyway.
nicoleci: diana_coman, currently im having issues accessing the shell. this may be a BingoBoingo question. i'll provide a better answer as to which step im stuck on when i get inside.
diana_coman: nicoleci: where are you stuck with the steps in http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/ ?
diana_coman: and yeah, this one has some gems in it; I think my favourite is "Some more quicksighted, imagin'd these two children were, as useless shades sent to Charon by any means that could be made use of."
diana_coman: nicoleci: do you need help with setting the selections up?
diana_coman: hm, bimbo.club does not have the b&e selection mechanism set? I tried http://bimbo.club/2019/09/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-v/?b=Circassians&e=Asiaticks and it's not working
mircea_popescu: all sorta chuck moores, "famous" and apparently ever so good and useful, just WAITING for you to give them a chance to strangle you.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 03:56:22 ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:01:18 mircea_popescu;thinks: asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
mircea_popescu: imagine, all this flurry of exciting new development could have been occuring in 2017, if i had the sense to kick phf out on his rear in 2017, rather than let him sit his dumb ass on us for two years.
mircea_popescu is actually excited at how well things are progressing, once we got rid of the dead weight.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 03:56:22 ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:01:18 mircea_popescu;thinks: asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 22:13:22 asciilifeform: lobbes et al : another item i neglected to add, but really oughta have, is to log the actual ip of where connects. so can actually get some ~useful data re individual fleanode endpoints.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 22:11:25 asciilifeform: ( then in principle dun gotta make new. but oughta test. nao q , how to reproduce wedged sockets, other than by playing fleanode lotto ? )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935095 << log in as root, close the program's socket whileit's running.
mircea_popescu: otherwise it's "in all my driving i never had to back up, so... never put a reverse setting for the gearbox in"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 22:04:14 asciilifeform: wait mircea_popescu , why can't be done ? seems like simple fix ( tho in my simplistic 'run on lappy & yank nic cord' reconnect test, never saw the state that lobbes discovered, so never implemented 'make new socket' )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935086 << because the descriptors are maintained by the kernel not the userspace.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:01:18 mircea_popescu;thinks: asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:16:52 mircea_popescu: thinks asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:01:18 mircea_popescu: thinks asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
diana_coman: lobbes: there's something weird with your loggger's treatment of ctcp lines, compare http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934613 with http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934613 and http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934613
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/
lobbes: asciilifeform: yeah, I also have no idea how to properly test the thing.. except wait for the right fleanode weather to come by
feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/the-mp-wp-bot-job-offer/ << lobbesblog -- The mp-wp bot job offer
asciilifeform: lobbes et al : another item i neglected to add, but really oughta have, is to log the actual ip of where connects. so can actually get some ~useful data re individual fleanode endpoints.
asciilifeform: ( then in principle dun gotta make new. but oughta test. nao q , how to reproduce wedged sockets, other than by playing fleanode lotto ? )
asciilifeform thinks 'at last, somebody finally exposed the horrid fleanode edge cases'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 20:39:51 lobbes: here's the snippit of the bot logs for these logs >> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=CAX0
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1935080 << seems like finally lobbes photographed that legendary ufo, the 'socket alive, but wedged tcp' state.
asciilifeform: wait mircea_popescu , why can't be done ? seems like simple fix ( tho in my simplistic 'run on lappy & yank nic cord' reconnect test, never saw the state that lobbes discovered, so never implemented 'make new socket' )
lobbes: roger that. I'll take a dive into the code and see if I can figure out the socket related bits
mircea_popescu: patch it so it releases the file descriptor and reconnects properly.
mircea_popescu: lobbes, the reconnection code is buggy. should create new socket rather than try to reuse old one.
mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lWOzm/?raw=true << in other lulz : new trilema select scheme fucked up spammers' trackback spinning mechanism.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty for the update
snsabot: Logged on 2017-07-15 12:48:59 asciilifeform: they wanna say 妓 -- let'em be stuck saying 32 bytes (16x16 bit matrix, more than enough for any hierohorror) rather than 2 bytes !!!
asciilifeform wonders how long before unitardation reaches the magick threshold when would be moar economical to simply encode bitmap of glyph
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 21:23:52 asciilifeform: 'I mean literally, the guy's from Washitistan, they write things with their own excrement there, and the Unicode Foundation introduced actual excrement in the standard so now whenever someone asks for the networking code in your project they are delivered physical faeces on cardboard. About fifty eight acres of it. Where would you like this put, sir ?' (tm)(r)(mp)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 04:19:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1934993 << that's nothing ; the fucking idiots put all the ~2k or so known (and quite possibly not even linguistic) harappan decorations into the unicode. inexplicably, they're ~proud~ of having done this : https://web.archive.org/web/20170306041359/https://www.mohenjodaroonline.net/index.php/indus-script
asciilifeform: + sigs for the patch, incl. asciilifeform's .
asciilifeform: achtung lobbes , diana_coman , et al : logotron www updated, nao includes latest lobbes & diana_coman contrib. errata fix . and link to new cookbook by the former.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking about it, it is possible that you 'got lucky' and caught the phuctor backup interval.
mircea_popescu: must be internet weather i guess
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: looked for evidence of outages, but on neither dulap or own console , found any yet ( no disconnects of bot ; nor drop of shell from dulap to own chair, it's been standing for month+ )
asciilifeform: i vaguely suspected btw that all the major bugs in bot would be found in disconnect handling. piz pipe is so stable that not seen naturally-occurring disconnect yet...
asciilifeform: at same time other piz boxes answered ?
mircea_popescu: can't say it's clear to me it's the box specifically.
mircea_popescu: what, no thousands upon thousands of words in a deluge, transforming a pleasant morning into a mad rush to ingest novel after referenced novel ?! just eat like normal people, looking out the window ?!
mircea_popescu: hm, somehow the log seems sparse this morning.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/a-catagraphy-or-the-remains-of-a-bathroom/ << Trilema -- A catagraphy, or the remains of a bathroom
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 02:07:38 lobbes: oh incidentally, can ericbot be added to the autovoice list?
mircea_popescu: "language engineers" Amar Fayaz Buriro and Shabir Kumbhar my foot. they're execrable, odious shitmongers fit only to anchor participate in baboon gangrapes for the rest of their offensive lives.
mircea_popescu: the two "excited" imbeciles in question long vanished ; their "exciting" website's gone. but the radiation damage... it remains.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-08#1934993 << that's nothing ; the fucking idiots put all the ~2k or so known (and quite possibly not even linguistic) harappan decorations into the unicode. inexplicably, they're ~proud~ of having done this : https://web.archive.org/web/20170306041359/https://www.mohenjodaroonline.net/index.php/indus-script
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 18:19:52 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934492 - asciilifeform , as far as I see, there's a bug at setting the time_last_conn at a reconnection, hence the wrong result of uptime; irc() method is missing the "global time_last_conn" when it sets the value so the set is lost.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 16:56:13 trinque: I'd have to stress test the thing to say, but response time over here is about a half second. ignoring parallelism 172800 req per day (assuming pastes expire after 24hr)
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934968 << alright, i'm sold, make the id 5 chars. erryone's just gonna have to type the extra char and that's that. alphanum tho, no symbols.
lobbes: oh incidentally, can ericbot be added to the autovoice list?
lobbes: never did get to baking that post on mircea_popescu's ask... (I blame apache). Will have to tackle that in the morning. Until then, off to sleep!
asciilifeform: lobbes: there's 0 reason to 'wait for $nextpatch'. just turn errata into vpatches, folx
lobbes: if not, I have no issue with making a vpatch for the various fixes in that guide
lobbes: as for the vpatching, I wonder if it makes sense to just "lump them all in" with the quoted search patch?
lobbes: re: the database dump, that is
lobbes: ty. and interesting. Perhaps I just jumped the gun on that.
asciilifeform: lobbes: the max dump line limit is configurable. ( and i'ma turn the knob on mine if anyone finds the '500' inconvenient. plox to write in. )
asciilifeform: lobbes: otherwise a+++ cookbook, ty for writing.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 18:19:52 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934492 - asciilifeform , as far as I see, there's a bug at setting the time_last_conn at a reconnection, hence the wrong result of uptime; irc() method is missing the "global time_last_conn" when it sets the value so the set is lost.
asciilifeform: lobbes: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/logsericbenevidescom-is-born-compiled-notes-on-the-cloning-process/#comment-83
feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/logsericbenevidescom-is-born-compiled-notes-on-the-cloning-process/ << lobbesblog -- logs....com is born: compiled notes on the cloning process
lobbes: I'm off to eat some food, then make a "standing up a logotron" guide from compiled notes
lobbes: the "raw dump" knob works splendidly btw! was as simple as deleting from loglines table by index and eating where not synced
lobbes: (ftr, the cause of my apache access logs not functioning was indeed that I nuked a module in my attempts to get proxying working. Specifically, I nuked the "mod_log_config" and "mod_logio".. oy)
lobbes: I also am not sure what caused the reconnect (hence my tangent into the apache logs). However I finally got my access logs working again so I'll have those available the next time it disconnects at least
diana_coman: since it was quiet otherwise anyway, I made the change and restarted ossabot so I'll see the effect @ next socket error, I suppose
diana_coman: in any case, atm the bot's uptime command will in fact report "time since last run of the bot" rather than since last connection
diana_coman: as to *what* caused the reconnect, I can't say I know exactly: the bot's log duly reports a "listen socket error, disconnecting", followed by the expected reconnect but I can't see / don't know where to look, possibly for anything more informative.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934492 - asciilifeform , as far as I see, there's a bug at setting the time_last_conn at a reconnection, hence the wrong result of uptime; irc() method is missing the "global time_last_conn" when it sets the value so the set is lost.
trinque: I'd have to stress test the thing to say, but response time over here is about a half second. ignoring parallelism 172800 req per day (assuming pastes expire after 24hr)
mircea_popescu: previous set had 5 digits. i was thinking of saving the typing... but are you saying 2mn too narrow, ennumerable ?
BingoBoingo: And in the lulziest of local lulz https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Un-militar-profugo-condenado-por-Plan-Condor-hizo-un-tramite-para-cobrar-jubilacion-uc729212
lobbes: first though, I'm still log spelunking re: bot reconnect. Namely what is taking me so long here is that I went to check apache access log (to rule out a ddos) only to discover... it ain't logging anymore! I suspect I nuked a crucial module somewhere when I was trying to get the proxy stuff working
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934609 << ftr I am seriously considering bidding on this, but first I want to be clear on if I am understanding correctly all portions of the ask. I'll bake a post tonight breaking this down / asking smart questions for clarity
mircea_popescu: exact same formalisms, it was like a sorta joke / toast, in the akkadia of 3000 years ago, "oh, son of god herpy derp"
mircea_popescu: the only problem with this very specifically identycal jesus of the pre-xtian sectarian disturbances in the assyrian empire is that... well ? guy lived 8th century BEFORE the supposed appearance of... the son of
mircea_popescu: the name, however, translates as "my faith is in the son of the eshara". that'd be ashur, of course.
mircea_popescu: that's a name, in cuneiform, of a sort of akkadian lenin in the assyrian empire. he butchered the previous royal fambly and greatly improved the efficiency of the bureaucracy.
snsabot: Logged on 2016-04-01 12:23:55 asciilifeform: is on the spin cycle of the day's stake, when the barbs come out
diana_coman: asciilifeform: since you state it, I'm sure it's precisely that for you; and fwiw I'm sure you are not the only one in this either.
mircea_popescu: the extent of my lambasting was re dead bones fame, no more. i'm not impugning random lang here.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i can't speak for erryone, but found that ~whole of education consists in swallowing 'not likes' and ~then~ thinking. rather than how kid comes from cradle, 'i dun like, won't think'
diana_coman: obviously and proven the "don't like" is not good so ...
diana_coman: asciilifeform: but exactly because of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934910 I just can't get the idea of "don't like" when asked re forth
mircea_popescu could probably write a better router than whatever the fuck that was in bash
asciilifeform: possibly i did an epicly inept job in this thread. but was trying to say 'i dun like forth -- but may be condemned to it by The Essences(tm)(r)'
mircea_popescu: still doesn't make chuck moore's putative 1990s vlsi-er anything other than php. because what did it do, 15 cells ? o noes, centimetre process ? HARDWORK
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i have no objection to making the future tmsr iron run forth, as things stnad right now.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 01:04:05 mircea_popescu: there's further implications ; but, to fit the point back to narrow interest : saying the tools are already there is not even stupid, it's entirely besides the point. the only effectual question is, "has the lowest possible P in theory been actually realised in practice".
asciilifeform: as mircea_popescu knows full well, nuffin is 'simple' on pc. but there's degrees of bulk.
asciilifeform: sometimes the 'dun like' item is the only working tool known, to the point that if you try to redesign it from scratch, will end up with ~same thing but moar inept.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934889 << for the obvious fucking reason! rocker goes to mountain, "oh, i wish i could live here" "really bitch ? and what about tp ?" "oh, i'd use leaves!!!" after a week of wiping ass on pine cones... ready to grumbingly but grudgingly hit the first walmart
asciilifeform: what i wish i could do, is to catch moor and hang him upside down and connect to 220v, and get him to confess how he got vlsi fabbed w/out the 'mandatory' winblows mask liquishit.
asciilifeform: ( may in fact be the only non-winblows vlsi system currently in use , even. )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: primarily -- the intrinsic difficulty of reading. reader is stuck parsing out the ast using bare hands. it is possible to make the work easier, and i tried e.g. here . but remains painful for most folx.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform is originally a lisp crackpot, rather than forth crackpot. forth is arguably 'polar opposite' , there is no gc, or 'raw ast' syntax, in fact no syntax in the familiar sense ( since you've studied 'peh' this summary oughta make sense. ) so best summary would be, i dun ~like~ forth, simply keep coming back to it because it appears to be the only known solution point in the domain space of 'most physically-com
asciilifeform: iirc 1 of the meanwhile vanished folx ( mats? ) actually bought a 'greenarrays' board. hey mats, are you alive ? what happened to this?
asciilifeform: hmm apparently i was wrong re 'okad'. appears to be a circa-2012 snapshot. nao if i had the free hands to try an' run !
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 13:01:50 mircea_popescu: isp will throw fit if you're even within 1% of 1% of this theoretical maximum, rated capacity.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 13:01:29 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934821 << not irl. large packet flow is, you'll perhaps discover, one of the most "oversold" ie fraudulently misrepresented items in nature. much like the city comes put faucets into yur house but you can't run them 24/7, except ^8.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934857 << why do you suppose piz pipe, 200Mb/s costs ~1k$/mo , while in timis 1Gb/s advertised at 10 $ ? the industrial pipe can, and in fact does (lately) run at ~100% capacity for weeks on end. which is not to say that there aint scam providers which will try to throttle a customer to less than he paid. simply, piz did not suffer the misfortune of sitting under any such.
asciilifeform: fwiw i suspect the fella would be here if he weren't 90 y.o.
asciilifeform: as described'. but cannot put the src in mircea_popescu's nose to prove point.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: half of this is fair cut. moor does in fact sell chip ( and incidentally comes, unlike ~errything else on market, with full datashit ). but afaik the full src of the cad system was not published, to date. ( it's how he eats. ) so comes down to matter of heuristic, 'does exist, or is charlatan ?' based on d00d's work to date, and the published material re 'greenarray' product on sale, i'm inclined to say 'exists, worx
mircea_popescu: why the fuck's this not connecting ?
mircea_popescu: which is why i'm famous for being tyhe guy that sent the irs packing / tore fetlife a new one. cuz ~it is actually there~. concretely.
mircea_popescu: you understand this ? http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/ contains ~THE ACTUAL EMAISL~. with the dumb bitches' name. and http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-i/ inclkudes ~the actual filings~. not "a summary", not some fucking whisperings.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:22:48 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934319 << not fucking famously. let me show you how famously works, in reality. "mircea popescu had, famously, naked bitches at his beck and call". that's ~famous~.
mircea_popescu: again -- http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934656 INCLUDES THE ITEMS. not a story of the items. ~THE~ items.
mircea_popescu: i mean the 3k lines of forth ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:13:38 asciilifeform: the orig q was re line rate of nic. but even the modest piz pipe , 200Mbit/s , is good for ~50k 512B packets / sec , when otherwise unloaded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there
mircea_popescu: isp will throw fit if you're even within 1% of 1% of this theoretical maximum, rated capacity.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:09:30 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934686 << yer figure is unrealistically pessimistic, 1k * 512b == 512kB/s . there indeed is overhead in nic etc, but udp packets can be received at very close to rated capacity of pipe.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934821 << not irl. large packet flow is, you'll perhaps discover, one of the most "oversold" ie fraudulently misrepresented items in nature. much like the city comes put faucets into yur house but you can't run them 24/7, except ^8.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:05:12 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934661 >> e.g. http://www.greenarraychips.com/ . or the fact that his book was translated and printed in run of 1e6 even in sovok. but i expect 'not famous enuff' to mircea_popescu , cuz aint in his personal kit ? or wat.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934815 << cuz where is the allegedly famous 3k lines of forth making complete vlsi plant.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:01:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934647 << thing has install base that dwarfs apache. ( it's in the bootloader of erry single sgi, sun, even crapple box sold to date; in 1e6 pieces of embedded equip., and whole buncha 'unsexy' irons, from mains transformers, burglar alarms, etc., possibly even in yer mercedes. )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934808 << was not discussing forth ; was discussing the actual item you applied the "famously" to, namely "complete vlsi production plant in iirc 3k loc of forth".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 11:57:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934607 << interesting idea, but plox to give detailed spec, i suspect no one can bake based on the 3ln given
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934794 << honestly i think the whole foundaton thing needs restructuring ; current structure failed repeated treboot attempts and does not look even theoretically rebootable.
mircea_popescu: (not fluff, either, 500page folio backbreakers)
mircea_popescu: nfi what anyone;d do with a lang that requires a literal meter of shelf for the dict ; nor do i know many people who ever read twenty english dictionaries. but there it is nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: https://oi.uchicago.edu//research/publications/assyrian-dictionary-oriental-institute-university-chicago-cad << in other ways to spend lots of money, how about 20 volumes worth of dictionaries of proto-hebrew
asciilifeform: ( 'peh', fwiw, is NOT a standard-compliant forth, i committed quite deliberately war crimes against the classical standard in order to make the parser as simple as physically possible, to make all operators weigh 1 or 2 chars )
billymg: without going into too much detail my current mp-wp roadmap is: 1) finish writing tests, 2) mass delete cruft/unnecessary "features", 3) formalize a republican theme (or a few themes)
asciilifeform: re forth -- it's cemented in ANSI X3.215 (1994--current) (1st in 1980!), ISO/IEC 15145 (1997--current) . rather like ada, dead tree standard. and quite unlike e.g. python, php. ( and unlike cl , is actually possible to program in the lang as specified in the standard. )
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 04:37:22 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-04#1933694 <-- ftr, I'm pretty sure that the same coat can be applied to mp-wp without much effort. so if e.g. billymg is interested, I can provide him with everything he needs; tho the blog is online already, not especially difficult to see how the webpage is structured.
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1933994 << completely true, and i agree with asciilifeform, i'm a fan of The Tar Pit's theme (i'm also partial to trinque's theme)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934772 << neato, trinque . plz consider to genesis the thing, so can have multiple redundant pastetrons, as with logger
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934699 << in the orig. '17 thread re 'make cpu', mircea_popescu made the observation 'the sticker prices have 3 or 4 extra zeros on'em', i.e. pointless to even ask the q before we have penetration into the asian snakepits where iron is actually baked. without such, we're stuck looking at the chump ratecards.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 08:39:00 mircea_popescu: b) SELL IT to them. forcibly. i do mean, at the point of the sword, rape them with it.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934692 << the tricky bit is that to sell sumthing, it gotta exist 1st. ( granted various hucksters manage to 'sell' thin air, but this is outside the scope imho )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934677 << this is entirely troo ( recall the infamous ibm derp's 'there is a world market for perhaps 6 computers' ? )
asciilifeform: the orig q was re line rate of nic. but even the modest piz pipe , 200Mbit/s , is good for ~50k 512B packets / sec , when otherwise unloaded.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 08:36:48 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934382 << practical network rates are more in the 1k/s or threabouts, certainly if sustained. 2*18 is not seen even in dedicated interchanges.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934686 << yer figure is unrealistically pessimistic, 1k * 512b == 512kB/s . there indeed is overhead in nic etc, but udp packets can be received at very close to rated capacity of pipe.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:26:50 mircea_popescu: chuck moore can be famous when he meets the bar to existence. when you can fucking LINK to the god damned "famous" things.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934661 >> e.g. http://www.greenarraychips.com/ . or the fact that his book was translated and printed in run of 1e6 even in sovok. but i expect 'not famous enuff' to mircea_popescu , cuz aint in his personal kit ? or wat.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:18:44 mircea_popescu: i don't specifically care if they become things or not -- but i'd much rather not be asked to foot the bill for their becoming. let them do the work themfuckingselves, which is why i say : piggybacking even more stupid shit atop a tower of stupid shit we're allegedly trying to clean up is... well ? it's stupid!
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934655 << appeal of forth is that there ~aint~ a 'tower'. i.e. can stand up all the compiler you need in coupla 100 bytes.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934654 << if you dun see sumthing with naked eye, dun mean it aint there.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934647 << thing has install base that dwarfs apache. ( it's in the bootloader of erry single sgi, sun, even crapple box sold to date; in 1e6 pieces of embedded equip., and whole buncha 'unsexy' irons, from mains transformers, burglar alarms, etc., possibly even in yer mercedes. )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:10:00 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934318 << nevermind "martian". the table ante for this discussion is "perfectly functioning webserver with two decades history of the same". if it dun have that, it's not a fucking thing.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:14:04 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934312 << how did you counht ? to reiterate the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934257 point.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:01:18 mircea_popescu: thinks asciilifeform should also get something ; though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: the line where it was mentioned as text and the url to the logotron ; and c) deploys this to pizarro box (should be getting one presently i'm understanding) -- this step will also include putting a trilema clone in there (i'll provide the mp-wp install/db dumb, all that's needed is a mysql glue such that local myql server slaves trilema.com mysql server ; i intend to make a one line edit to the forms, such that comments le
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934607 << interesting idea, but plox to give detailed spec, i suspect no one can bake based on the 3ln given
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 03:51:59 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934288 << you're not thinking this through. what's a page, <100kb ? what's the daily output, 100 of these ? you're comitting to 10mb / day thereby ? ie a hour's blockchain ? this too much to ask for the republic ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934537 << this is troo, could cache search pgs at the current rate and not fill disk in 100y
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:50:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934268 << ok, so did you also inherit the code/domain etc ? or should i rush through some replacements, eg spyked's imgpaster ? or what here ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:04:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934252 << lol what is this, fallout the rl game ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934477 << archaeological find. manufacturer was 1 of the 2 castles where sovok built nukes , accelerators, related hardware.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:01:04 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934257 << there's a lot of cvasi-effort/idle pullulation in the wanna-be cloud sharply directed at "being mp on the cheap". he figures he'll be cool if he says that, which is why he does.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934474 << but, lol, actual mircea_popescu never says anyffin of the kind -- always gives concrete barf when finds bug. so why then.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 01:28:50 mircea_popescu: anyway, biosacks only need names if they're about to log here. both hanbot an' nicoleci are on, and so far what you lot wanna use them for is rather punching bags, from experience, so i don't see the urgency in naming anyone else.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934457 << in orig q i was thinking 'does this personage correspond to a wot key', prolly oughta have said concretely. ( if mircea_popescu had revealed the chix's human name, this would not have meant anyffin to asciilifeform et al )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934436 << the american generals of '50s had somewhat similar concept, 'ooda loop'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-02-03 12:27:29 mircea_popescu: in other news, mp's own bash grenadiers regiment suggests an ad interim solution for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891951 in the shape of ls | grep ^x..$' | while read line; do curl -Ls -o /dev/null -w %{url_effective} -X POST -F "pastebox=@$line" http://p.bvulpes.com -w %{url_effective}; done
trinque: I'll stick it on the page here in a bit, gonna snag coffee and be back
mircea_popescu: also what's the bash snippet to write to it ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:50:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934268 << ok, so did you also inherit the code/domain etc ? or should i rush through some replacements, eg spyked's imgpaster ? or what here ?
hanbot: btw, since i have your ear: is the harappan reference a nod to all its extant scripts being very short?
hanbot: 'cause it seems you reliably get exactly the kinda "camp follower" that goes along with girls; some angry old dude comes to trilema like *once*, leaves rambling comment, dissipates back into the biomass.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 13:08:32 asciilifeform: meanwhile in vintage oddball spam via mircea_popescu's link.
hanbot: speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934455 lulz: wasn't that chick from the same Evanston, IN mentioned in ye oddball spam?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:23:01 asciilifeform: will comment on mircea_popescu's other observations when wakes up.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:50:06 asciilifeform: trinque: i found , when experimented, that you have just about half minute! to answer their ping
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934414 << prolly a baked in fixnum from the days of the ancients no current scriptkiddy can touch. i say this because the identify nick response also 30 seconds.
mircea_popescu: but, what ca you do. i wasn't an adult in the 80s.
mircea_popescu: aaanyways, uk is dissolved almost entirely, yes 1980s thatcher's uk would have fucking imploded if we did something like this ; whereas 2020s may uk... well... just look at the whole eu debacle, they're a joke.
mircea_popescu: funeriu was pretty boiled back then.
mircea_popescu: well, surety's for the grave. but anyways.
diana_coman: I would surely hope so; though you know, seeing how the bac data stuff went with those concerned focusing on "why are you doing this??" and ~nothing else, I wouldn't even be sure of anything.
mircea_popescu: basically, we've been diligently building vapors over the years. looking for a spark.