billymg: i think i lean towards displaying code exactly as it is, even if this means some horizontal scrolling _within_ a pane, rather than machine-wrapped lines (which can be disastrous for legibility)
billymg: i think the most involved was the one about styling. it's tricky because the ideal width for a column of text in an article is not the same as the ideal width for a pane displaying code
billymg: jfw: thanks for the quick and thorough review. i left a response to your comments
jfw: ah, possibly trinque is correct too, the fix got fixed. http://thewhet.net/2019/03/mp-wp-patch-for-enabling-html-comments/
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:40:14 trinque: I can almost certainly steal someone's session cookie with a comment if they do what dpb suggests.
jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957361 - independent of the proposed session cookie change, in theory this is not so: there's a whitelist for the tags allowed in comments. In practice it seems to work too. It's in the ever so intuitively named wp-includes/kses.php
billymg: looking forward to being completely done with the move and settled in early march -- five short weeks away!
billymg: btw in a few i'll be in cr for about a week. this past week i've been setting up travel iron, archival and transfer procedures, etc. the digital part of the move proving much more complicated than the physical
billymg: those were some good reads and re-reads, this certainly eases the paranoia that still creeps up every now and then
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-23 02:18:41 mp_en_viaje: to be perfectly clear & understand each other : the ENTIRETY of stage, from "broadway" to "highbrow theatre" to ballet to ice skating to ~EVERYTHING ELSE~, the absolutely and strictly only reason ANYTHING like the stage exists in contemporary degeneracy,
mircea_popescu: feeding others always has the potential to produce socialism. one approach is to also give them something to do -- in which case it produces art, the best form of socialism avaialble.
mircea_popescu: there's a self-obvious reason socialism existed traditionally as the political mode of subsistence peasants, and then became an urban matter once industrialization produced of idle and useless vagrants in sufficient quantities.
billymg: and still requires the effort. it seems the further i get from the child-me the more aware i am of the child-me that remains
billymg: that certainly describes my own trajectory. developing out of the socialist mindset was like any other basic developmental process, in that it required some risk/initiative and continued effort
mircea_popescu: so i really wouldn't be worried about any eventual extermination of socialism. if you don't wash you become filthy, and if you don't think you become a socialist. these'll survive, being as they are the names for a lack. lacks are eternal.
mircea_popescu: in fact, i doubt if anything ~but~ socialism is even meaningful to small children, much like nothing but tit is meaningful to even smaller ones. by extension reproduction-as-only-function females, the dedicated mothers, grandmothers etc with no other activities or preoccupations besides the production and early rearing of children are liable to revert to their mindset and worldview.
mircea_popescu: all children are born socialist the way they're born dumb, deaf and iliterate, with no taste for food and no taste for music, with no sexual capacity or experience, acultural, amoral and so forth.
mircea_popescu: socialism can and will survive indefinitely. like ordinary filth, vermin infestation and so on, it's the natural order, prevalent inside graves, abandoned human dwellings, any other disturbed then neglected terrain.
billymg: how much longer can socialism even survive in a post bitcoin world? is the idea to scam as much as possible before it goes away forever? the failed forkcoin looking exactly like the failed state
mircea_popescu: less reading deng derpy-ping, more log reading. it ain't the 50s anymore.
mircea_popescu: " Non-debate theory is my invention. Non-debate, is to gain time to work hard. When you debate, everything becomes more complicated and it wastes time. Nothing can be done. Dont debate, and just try. Be brave and experiment." what ludicrous, half-literate, anachronistical nonsense. where's the gook dog been living under for the past decade, a rock in his native chinastan ?
billymg: hanbot_abroad: if you want to take a look i just published a draft of the vpatch. i think more can be done in terms of cleanup of the old code but i wanted to get some eyes on it before doing another pass
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:25:46 hanbot_abroad: billymg what *are* the options on footnotes, even?
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957376 << ah crap, sorry i missed this earlier. they are more like constants (for adjusting e.g. whether you want decimal or roman numeral footnote identifiers) that were stored in the db because the average wordpress luser can't be trusted to edit a few variables in a php file and needs checkboxes he can click instead
ericbot: Logged on 2020-01-27 13:02:26 mircea_popescu: why the fuck are you so dedicated anyway ? wrong place, ditch the heathens at the FIRST sign of trouble.
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957409 << I think I may have been a little blinded by my desire to not keep you waiting forever for this thing. But after actually talking it through (and getting proper sleep) I can see that trying to ride that rabid horse wasn't going to pay off in the long run
ericbot: Logged on 2020-01-27 13:01:32 mircea_popescu: http://www.krankendenken.com/2020/01/mp-wp-bot-my-current-problem-and-possible-solutions/ << just ditch the shithole host you ran into.
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957408 << roger that. Yeah, the 'oops suspended' thing was pretty odd. I'm fine just declaring "Shinjiru" a scammer and finding someone else then
BingoBoingo: The 2008 one apparently ended up thus far costing 8 times what they projected back in 2008
BingoBoingo: Here's there a lot of noise now about reforming the 2008 retirement reform that was itself a "reform" of the 1995 reform.
mircea_popescu: basically the place's been economically in the equivalent of "having just lost a major war" since 1880
mircea_popescu: The peso ley 18.188 replaced the peso moneda nacional at a rate of 100 to 1 and was itself replaced by the peso argentino at a rate of 10,000 to 1 (the thing the austral replaced)
mircea_popescu: before that there was also a "peso ley 18.188", replacing a "peso moneda nacional" und so weiter
BingoBoingo: The USG "World Bank" of all folks *encouraged* Argentina to embrace the convertability trap
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-15#1956896 << here's some lulz : in 11985, the "austral argentino" replaced the peso argentino at a rate of 1 austral = 1000 pesos argentinos. in 1992, the "peso convertible" replaced the austral argentino, at a rate of 1 peso convertible = 10,000 australes. therefore, between the pre 1985 peso and the post 1992 peso there's a relationship of 1:10^7
dorion: re overwhelming, to my eye the best thing you can do atm is make the work as public as possible so the people who want to help you can.
dorion: ave1 I hope those above lines didn't make it seem ~more~ overwhleming, but the bottom line I'd like to get across is yeah, there's a mountain of work and while it's all achievable it has to be sustainable. let's work with urguncy, but not haste and make sure our early decisions are properly weighed.
dorion: the summary there is 4.4.7 is what mp mainly uses and 4.7.4 is what Gales Linux uses. 4.7.4 is the last gcc version to not require any c++ to bootstrap.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 16:55:49 dorion_road: ave1 the latest on the gcc discussion is 4.4.7, 4.7.4 and 4.9.4 are up for consideration.
dorion: ave1 thanks for fixing the comment and likewise on the pushing/asking. way easier to deal with than silence :)
dorion: mircea_popescu np on the tags.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957474 - I didn't think I was pushing too hard, given his words. and thanks, I'm up for fun, but sometimes find being serious yields the most fun :)
ave1: dorion, I updated the comment
mircea_popescu: dorion, o damn, you're rifht, i fucked the tags myself. sorry.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-17 12:42:50 ave1: I was genesing it, and will continue to do so. But with feedback in the loop. So, for example, gcc comes with an old STL html documentation tree, can this be dropped? (I would say yes)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-17 12:40:02 ave1: As to ownership, I can own gcc 4.9 and would like to work with trinque et. al. on this. The problem here is limited time, so my primary input can be information/communication at this point.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 09:18:54 diana_coman: hopefully it's not *that prospect* that keeps ave1 from resurfacing in the first place!
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 01:23:15 ave1: dorion, I got the pingpack and the comment went into spam, retrieved...
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957374 - thank you. looks like I forgot the closing </a> tag on the link prior to the blockquote. do you mind fixing it ?
mircea_popescu: he's got all the shit from the school bully he's gonna take, for chrissakes! therefore he'll deal with policemen, officious intermeddlers, people in suits and all the rest. anything but some pimply faced, overweight sixteen year old, he's been stuck with him for almost fourteen months and he knows well by now NOTHING COULD BE WORSE!!!
mircea_popescu: this situation reccurs in the history of the young human male's tribulations on earth, whereby he runs away from school because the well familiar small difficulties are TOO MUCH TO BEAR, and "nobody really knows" whether the much larger difficulties are even large or difficulties or anything, so "let's find out"
ossabot: (eulora) 2020-01-27 mircea_popescu: ie, the kid who runs away from rural highschool to make it in town because he knows how hard multiplication or basic func analysis is, but doesn't know how hard making it in town is.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, it occurs to me discussion in #eulora is very relevant to the problem of bois, ie sexually and socially infantile but biologically overgrown males trying to "develop software"
billymg: mircea_popescu: sorry for that, i didn't mean to be so dramatic with the "fine, i'll just work by myself then" -- i think i'm still working out the balance between check in with a question vs. implement and seek feedback. though on review it seems in this case it was more a matter of the clarity/information density of the question/communication
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/01/power-rangers-pushing-taproot-into-their-bitcoin-network-client-fork/ << Qntra -- Power Rangers Pushing "Taproot" Into Their Bitcoin Network Client Fork
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 10:54:52 billymg: i will go ahead and remove the notion of options from the footnotes plugin and publish the patch for review. going forward i will make more of these calls on my own and let the published draft patches speak for themselves
mircea_popescu: in any case http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957437 is, however subjectively justified, nevertheless only a path to polarbeard sadness, it dun work out well.
mircea_popescu: and the way this is then easiest handled (at least in part for legacy reasons) is as an "object" which gets preloaded, options.hurr = "durr" and so on ?
billymg: the latter was my thinking. even for experienced operator having the magic strings together at the top of the file might be useful / make the code easier to reason with
mircea_popescu: in the (ideally few) cases this is not feasible, people tend to mark their comms as such.
billymg: understood. i think i'm also adapting to the async nature of IRC (you may not hear a response for a few hours, possibly days, so your communication should be clear enough to not require short-loop back-and-forth)
mircea_popescu: in any case, why do you want to maintain the "options" object ? too much hassle to take out entirely ? more elegant to have all the magic strings in one place ?
mircea_popescu: so keep on talking about what you do an' use the experience to talk ever more clearly.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 18:06:46 billymg: my preference would be for replacing 'default_options' and 'current_option' with a single 'option' object in the plugin, no longer storing these in db, and letting users edit that 'options' variable in the php file instead of having to manually edit the db
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:59:07 billymg: mircea_popescu: to elaborate: the original version of the footnotes plugin also includes an options.php page for saving db-stored settings. the version that http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_add-footnotes-and-textselectionjs[ships with mp-wp] does not include this
mircea_popescu: there's notwring wrong with discussing the things, on the contrary. but let's read together what you said :
billymg: i will go ahead and remove the notion of options from the footnotes plugin and publish the patch for review. going forward i will make more of these calls on my own and let the published draft patches speak for themselves
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:58:29 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957369 << a png has the disadvantage that i can't tell, for instance, what's a link or how the url looks.
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957405 << i meant it only as a brief status update, though i should not have included the png without additional context (the line numbers are clickable and the URL anchors are to your spec, e.g. #S2-L10)
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:56:47 mircea_popescu: footnotes plugin original, one, only, etcetera, is the one on mp-wp. what other garbage idiots did is garbage idiots did.
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957403 << and this is the one, in mp-wp, that currently includes code that actively writes options to db. i was proposing to remove any remnants of this completely and only leave what would essentially be some constants at the top of the file (though it sounds like even predefining some of these values at the top of the file is unnecessary and can be removed as well
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:55:58 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957366 << how about your preference immediately becomes working on mp-wp as opposed to falsely claiming to be working on mp-wp while in fact trying to stick random unrelated garbage in there under this guise, because at the rate you're currently going im just about ready to set the bozo bit on whatever it is you do altogether.
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957400 << i was proposing removal of unnecessary code currently existing in mp-wp, not the addition of any. you can see from my patch history and communications in the logs that the removal of all cruft in mp-wp is what i'm working towards
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:36:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957358 << honestly, no. i think the "option" to "pick the special chars" was useful at the onset, when i was figuring out how the world should work, but double-parens is so well established by now, even etymologically! ("every time you go on a tanget, you have to decide -- is your paranthetical is simple or double?") that it needn't be misrepresented as an optio
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957382 << this was my feeling as well. i thought i'd check before proceeding to remove the code in case my judgement was incorrect. i will go ahead and remove it
mircea_popescu: 'sthematter mocky, do the girls let you off your baluba island cage half wour every other week ?
mircea_popescu: wth is that guy's problem anyway, keeps doing these drowning man bobbles
diana_coman: speaking of resurfacing, mocky.org is still down for me; Mocky, am I trying the wrong url/ip?
diana_coman: hopefully it's not *that prospect* that keeps ave1 from resurfacing in the first place!
mircea_popescu: i expect gcc will be the last owned portion, simply because of what horror it is.
mircea_popescu: also, nice that you've answered those two guys, but there's some waiting on the previous one as well : http://trinque.org/2019/12/28/a-republican-os-part-1/#comments
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-21 04:13:30 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-20#1951637 - ugh, I have them on my list & contacted them via email but they must-account (though they did at least say they weren't all that bothered about actual address iirc).
diana_coman: sadly lobbes's hoster there turned out to have been quite as idiotic as they seemed in the first place
mircea_popescu: how's about recent comments in sidebar and title slug in archives, no content, so they can be useful for their intended purposes ?
mircea_popescu: trinque, your blog is such a pain to navigate, dear god. so i want to see your previous article. well... there's no recent articles on the sidebar so i can't just ~see the title~ therefore eschew the need to click things. but let's see the archives... oh oops... this month's archive is entirely identical to you know, your latest article, for the first mile.
mircea_popescu: i walk out of shops / restaurants / whatever ALL the god damn time, for the simplest of reasons, such as "took more than thirty seconds to come for orders".
mircea_popescu: why the fuck are you so dedicated anyway ? wrong place, ditch the heathens at the FIRST sign of trouble.
mircea_popescu: http://www.krankendenken.com/2020/01/mp-wp-bot-my-current-problem-and-possible-solutions/ << just ditch the shithole host you ran into.
mircea_popescu: in other sighs, /me excitedly checked who the fuck that ИМ ave1 resqued from the spam que might be, went over to "knowen.org", turns out it's yet another dumbass pointless pantsuit platform-wannabe, "protected by recaptcha" to crown the shit in turds.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957369 << a png has the disadvantage that i can't tell, for instance, what's a link or how the url looks.
mircea_popescu: could be interesting for a lol. if you're using it for your basis you're way the fuck outta here.
mircea_popescu: footnotes plugin original, one, only, etcetera, is the one on mp-wp. what other garbage idiots did is garbage idiots did.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is this nonsense, "the original" ? what fucking original ? the world starts here, not some other place.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 18:06:46 billymg: my preference would be for replacing 'default_options' and 'current_option' with a single 'option' object in the plugin, no longer storing these in db, and letting users edit that 'options' variable in the php file instead of having to manually edit the db
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957366 << how about your preference immediately becomes working on mp-wp as opposed to falsely claiming to be working on mp-wp while in fact trying to stick random unrelated garbage in there under this guise, because at the rate you're currently going im just about ready to set the bozo bit on whatever it is you do altogether.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:59:07 billymg: mircea_popescu: to elaborate: the original version of the footnotes plugin also includes an options.php page for saving db-stored settings. the version that http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_add-footnotes-and-textselectionjs[ships with mp-wp] does not include this
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957363 << i don't understand why you think we care about this. what is this, regress all the things day or something ?
mircea_popescu: as things stand now, 1 exists (though the hash could stand improvement) but 2 doesn't and 3 is sorta-implemented.
mircea_popescu: steall all the cookies you want ; and mp-wp can even dispose with the htaccess ip lockdown mechanism currently in place.
mircea_popescu: 3. users logging in get the cookie passed and a new record in sessions on the basis of the pw thei provided hash-matching the one in users ; logged in users get recognized on the basis of ip, user agent and session cookie identity (all three).
mircea_popescu: 2. there should be a sessions table, where logged in users time of log-in, ip, user-agent, session cookie are stored. sessions older than 24h should be deleted server-side. the session cookie should be a hash of at least the ip, the user agent and server date-microtime.
mircea_popescu: 1. there should be a users table, wherein existent users passwords are stored hashed.
mircea_popescu: the way mp-wp session handling should work is as following :
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:40:14 trinque: I can almost certainly steal someone's session cookie with a comment if they do what dpb suggests.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957361 << speaking of this in the foregoing context, the way mp-wp's ~only~ cookie works is well ripe for a rewrite.
mircea_popescu: so you know, for having had useful users, mp-wp-footnotes matured. and for the opposite, crystal space not yet.
mircea_popescu: this also means the code's a preliminary, mock-up. as the user uses, the "options" become resolved into actual correct functioning, and the option-enabling portions get rewritten.
mircea_popescu: and in general, this is how "offering options" even works : sometimes portions of code function can't be figured out by the writer, has to be figured out by the user. thus things like the eulora gfx engine scriptable parts, or the mp-wp footnote options.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:38:38 billymg: mircea_popescu: do you see any use for UI-set and DB-stored "options" in the footnotes plugin? the version in mp-wp has most of that commented out but it's still storing/referencing them which is causing weird behavior (and makes it so the only way you can override the options is to manually edit the db)
mircea_popescu: s it's n olonger naything but. footnotes go into (( )) and that's that, there's no further optionality there.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957358 << honestly, no. i think the "option" to "pick the special chars" was useful at the onset, when i was figuring out how the world should work, but double-parens is so well established by now, even etymologically! ("every time you go on a tanget, you have to decide -- is your paranthetical is simple or double?") that it needn't be misrepresented as an option anymore, a
mircea_popescu: so yeah, i'd very much prefer anyone doing anything for me treat a "suspension" for any term and for any reason as === a lifetime ban of the alleged "provider"/scammer.
mircea_popescu: the natural counterbalance of a hallucinated right to "suspend" is the very real freedom to treat the hallucinator as a common scammer, which is PRECISELY what they are.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 16:22:00 lobbes: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957332 << long story short I went to do a 'dry run' install of everything on the shinjiru server and uncovered a host of snags that I'm currently ironing out (such as ports being blocked, them 'suspending' the service in error for a day, and my general derpage with basic sysadmin)
hanbot_abroad: billymg what *are* the options on footnotes, even?
billymg: most of the time was spent looking up php functions
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/01/grave-authentication-vulnerability-in-cisco-firewall-management-tool/ << Qntra -- Grave Authentication Vulnerability In Cisco Firewall Management Tool
billymg: my preference would be for replacing 'default_options' and 'current_option' with a single 'option' object in the plugin, no longer storing these in db, and letting users edit that 'options' variable in the php file instead of having to manually edit the db
billymg: once set, the plugin loads these options from the db into 'current_options' which is used throughout the plugin
billymg: the footnotes.php plugin has an object with 'default_options', if the options are not present in the db (e.g. on first run), they are set in the db based on the 'default_options'
billymg: mircea_popescu: to elaborate: the original version of the footnotes plugin also includes an options.php page for saving db-stored settings. the version that http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_add-footnotes-and-textselectionjs[ships with mp-wp] does not include this
trinque: I can almost certainly steal someone's session cookie with a comment if they do what dpb suggests.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-22 14:25:30 diana_coman: trinque: that stripping of html tags sounds like the known bug related to php version; iirc it was included in some vpatch though.
billymg: mircea_popescu: do you see any use for UI-set and DB-stored "options" in the footnotes plugin? the version in mp-wp has most of that commented out but it's still storing/referencing them which is causing weird behavior (and makes it so the only way you can override the options is to manually edit the db)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-24 12:59:24 diana_coman: jfw: Keksum's 3rd genesis is now signed and mirrored; as you've gathered already the previous comments on your article directly, I linked that and there's no need that I see for an additional article; also, you messed up something with your Keksum's article title now.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-24#1956026 - thanks diana_coman, it's an honor. Re the page title, still not sure how I did that (part of the wp-admin url got prepended to the title when updating) but I fixed it.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 23:55:59 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957197 << indeed it has ; look into "strict liability" sometime
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957253 - I was due for a re-read on ye olde crime of being an american, huh. Reflecting on when the article first found me, probably 2015ish, my reaction was to continue the path of distancing myself from the mob, but also to keep a distance from this perceived cthulhu pointing the gun at me for the happenstance of birth. The hospital analogy makes
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 23:49:03 mircea_popescu: the fundamental problems are that cli-iliteracy is a serious, life-changing disability. in terms of severity, blindness compares, deafness does not. obviously the afflicted are scarcely aware, but this doesn't mean they're not afflicted.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957245 - prime words for the sales pitch right there, ha!
lobbes: I will keep you updated as the ironing continues
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 09:21:36 mircea_popescu: meanwhile http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-06#1956661 << dude, i had to actually go fish out see wtf, maybe i misread ? THE TWENTIETH WAS LAST WEEK!
lobbes: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957332 << long story short I went to do a 'dry run' install of everything on the shinjiru server and uncovered a host of snags that I'm currently ironing out (such as ports being blocked, them 'suspending' the service in error for a day, and my general derpage with basic sysadmin)
hanbot_abroad: yeah, i was talking to nicoleci about her "etymology" series, and didn't notice i was typing into #trilema rather'n #trilema-hanbot until she higlighted me there. it was...a confusing second and a half, lol
hanbot_abroad: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957331 << well and hopefully as something other than mischan haha
mircea_popescu: i've muted it for now. get back to me asap, once it's fucking fixed, and what the fuck bright idea was this to replace a working "bad" bot with a "better" one that a) dun fucking work and b) isn't even maintained.
ossabot: (eulora) 2020-01-22 lobbes: mircea_popescu: this was a bit of regression after rewriting bot from lobbesbot to auctionbot; I neglected to re-code in the "check if spoken previously before announcing" piece. I will put this on my list to fix
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-01-22#1001650 << look man, reversion or no reversion, it's been spamming the shit out of #eulora for the past three-four fucking days, this can't go on like this forever.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/the-woman-who-wasnt-insulted-the-lord-who-accidentally-unearthed-the-political-stone-the-scary-that-was-always-there-and-no-santa-moroze-whatsoever/ << Trilema -- The woman who wasn't insulted, the lord who accidentally unearthed the political stone, the scary that was always there and no Santa-Moroze whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: spyked, http://thetarpit.org/2020/botworks-ix?b=But%20what&e=if#select << ahaha ok that was lulzy. i confess it never occured to me it'd work.
ericbot: Logged on 2020-01-06 22:05:12 mircea_popescu: incidentally lobbes , now that i'm back @travelbase or how shall i put this, shall we get back to the logger thing ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-06 21:50:34 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-06#1956654 << this week I've commited to getting a Gales install and report complete, however next week I was indeed going to work on the final setup and testing for the mp-wp logger. If all goes well I should be free to give it another shot on around the 20th of this month
mircea_popescu: meanwhile http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-06#1956661 << dude, i had to actually go fish out see wtf, maybe i misread ? THE TWENTIETH WAS LAST WEEK!
hanbot_abroad: at which point i widen the freaking channel name column lmao
hanbot_abroad: Wiktionary provides us that the etymology of the word comes from << "provides that" is a strange construction; generally a provision is a thing (hence provides us with) rather than a fact (provides us that). an obvious exception would be "provides us that thing which is xyz". also a minor point, just, you know...making a point of pointing them out lol.
hanbot_abroad: the 'old' French word << the word isn't 'old' as in part of modern french, but just old. Old French is a language, like Old English; they're sufficiently different (in various aspects, from phonology to spelling to actual vocabulary) from their modern inheritors to warrant different classification. did they give you chaucer to read in school?
hanbot_abroad: " In the end, most of the changes I brainstormed regarding structure did not seem to benefit the content. " << inasmuch as you didn't decide to use those structural changes you contemplated, they did in fact benefit the content --you judged they weren't right, for whatever reason. they're negative space, but just as in a piece of art they're still *there*.
hanbot_abroad: BingoBoingo you're welcome to #t-h to your heart's content, and nothing stops you from using it for your goals before the month is out either, even if it's just to rant/wonder out loud.
hanbot_abroad: bvt, diana_coman tyvm for the links. none are the specific itam i'm looking for, though all could be used to segue into the discussion of such, so once i (probably) peter out on the search i'll pick from there...and naturally the re-reading is pleasant. this isn't even a bad reading compass, throw an idea into chan, enter the reading linkmaze thusly! :D
mircea_popescu: as per which foregoing coversation, the issuance of the long-overdue qntra quarterly is delayed yet again. what can i do, apologies to the interested parties.
BingoBoingo: Give me one month to try to shed the alfisms, and make a hard outreach push to break the 'Qntra looks a whole like like BingoBoingo's other blog' appearance. I'll include a day by day in the weekly recaps, and if material improvement isn't showing in a month... I'll pledge to #ossasepia or #trilema-hanbot if they'll have me in their castles.
mircea_popescu: i dun have time for the retarded pre-teen's world model. either make that thing live or get off the horse so i know i have yet another job unhandled rather than think it handled while it's being slowly but "defensibly" driven into the very ground.
mircea_popescu: that's the fantasy is it ? something along those lines, that if one jacks of ~dedicatedly~ enough in solitude eventually the picture he's spunking all over will come to life ?
mircea_popescu: this has nothing to do with "how well you write". i'm aware this is the typical gambit of the being an engineer, he's gonna -- don't you know -- be SO GOD DAMEND GOOD at being funny/caring/whatever the girl he ain't said hi to yet is gonna... nfi, rematerialize our of his dirty sheets and start doing the laundry one day.
mircea_popescu: this situation where qnta is BingoBoingo's "other blog" can't well continue, it's neither interesting nor useful.
mircea_popescu: this procedure whereby you'll do whatever the fuck it is you feel like doing anyway, and expect the republic to feed and clothe you didn't work for alf, nor will it work for you. cuz it's pure hallucinatoria, it ain't how anything works
mircea_popescu: leaving aside what you say, which is as fine as any sayings ever were i'm sure, who you are (on the basis that is ever determined -- which is, WHAT YOU DO) is this dude who's lazily hitched his cart to what he perceives to be a moving beast of burden, and whatever, if we take it somewhere fine, and if not, i dunno... nobody could accuse you of being a lazy ineffectual fuck ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, well, yeah, that kinda was the conclusion once the original bitcoin isp went south, also.
mircea_popescu: dorion, sorry, left comment on wrong article. meanwhile added to the right one, mind deleting the spurious one ?
BingoBoingo: I'll work on cranking up the outreach now that Pizarro's dead, buried, and done. Last month I made an effort to bring the 'bicycle guy' who'd been doing Pizarro liquidity into the WoT. We met up a few times to talk Bitcoin and Republic, and the evils of socialism. He kept expressing interest, but around the New Year he went silent. I suspect spawnweight and nagwife did him in.
mircea_popescu: since you've been running things, you've done a little that ever diminished, and well... i dunno, never looked at it much, either.
mircea_popescu: from where i'm sitting, the matter's not by wednesday evening. qntra originally started in the other five year plan, you know, not the one ending recently, the one before that. cazalla did a little outreach, which is part of how eg you ended up there, but then found his way back to the spawnfarms.
BingoBoingo: I'll hammer a more refined plan out of the paper notebook on the desk and put it on the blog. Should be ready by Wednesday evening.
BingoBoingo: The only walk in on irc has been shinohai, but so far he's not come with written pieces in hand or expressed interest in trying to establish a disciplined writing workflow. He's just expressed interest without having one of the two things I can say yes to. I can say yes to a piece or I can say yes to the desire to put together a workflow to make pieces. So far he isn't bringing either.
BingoBoingo: It's been a while since I've done one of these sweeps, and I want to see what all the Latinos saying Bitcoin around me are doing, and if any might be able to do disciplined writing.
BingoBoingo: Well, next month I'm inclined to try to meet up will all the folks advertising local Bitcoin trades online. Letting them know what the Republic is, etc. The number advertising themselves here has grown as Argentina's shit itself out of being a place Venezuelans can do the remittance loop thing.
mircea_popescu: ideally, let's revisit the plans wrt attracting writers and improving circulation, and their respective state of implementation.
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/2020/botworks-ix << The Tar Pit -- Trilemabot and Feedbot V patches, the winter 2020 session
diana_coman: hanbot_abroad: I'd say more about some males not being and women doing but perhaps it might still be what you were looking for; specifically re being, I recall this comment
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, one of these days we're gonna have that talk about qntra already ; you around ?
diana_coman: at the same time upping the writing productions all around so there's *less* time to read it, too! :D
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 23:39:43 mircea_popescu: build it around the relationship, their building, their lifecycle, their needs. do not build it around the imaginary "point", that isn't.
bvt: hanbot_abroad: http://trilema.com/2018/the-lesbian-in-winter/ ?
mircea_popescu: heres an idea, let's standardize all terminals to 70 colons therefore
mircea_popescu: hanbot_abroad, did it use the example of kids pictures parents show ?
hanbot_abroad: meanwhile i'm on a multi-day search for a trilema piece that clearly delineated the male mode as "being" and the female mode as "doing"...the uselessness of these key terms makes the search a drag without some other anchor. anyone remember this/remember something else about it?
mircea_popescu: ave1, you know, uniquely among the lands tmsr actually has support systems for such problems. why not drop in say #trilema-hanbot try the working method, as opposed to trying to self-invent methadone by yourself alone ?
mircea_popescu: so you have some grounds to expect that indeed, "clearly labeling A" does soemthing. nevertheless, what it doesn't do is... solve the problem.
mircea_popescu: sure, the expectation on the part of the naive patient that he may be healed might have to be disabused now and again ; sure, the expectation on the part of the naive doctor, that he may practice what he knows without getting killed by chtulhu for no comprehensible reason at arbitrary times should hold as much as it possibly can.
mircea_popescu: you're to come up with some way to deal with the psychological tension on your own, and sure, whatever works for you'd better be good enough. however, what he's saying, and correctly, is that investment in supposed "identity" to resolve the matter's a way to make yourself dumber than you need to be.
mircea_popescu: now, this baseline truth is psychologically painful to doctors, so there's two classes : the kind who go into research, and the kind who put diplomas on their walls. these might even overlap, but the point remains : as far as the people you can't help are concerned, you're not helping. there's no way out of this, and word magic, labes etc won't fix it.
mircea_popescu: this latter bit might even inquire "are you even a hospital then ?!", and the only proper answer's that... no, you aren't. you're a hospital for all those other people, but not for pancreatic cancer guy.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, from the perspective of the patient, he goes in wanting to be fixed. he's done his part. some of these patients who've done their part will hear "ok, do this, don't do that" and some will hear "we don't know"
mircea_popescu: as time goes by, the first list grows (though the 2nd list doesn't shorten), and so while any cultivared man of means could be a doctor in 2000, only ~i and such can be de facto "general practitioners" today... wait, nothing's changed.
mircea_popescu: obviously, people are complicated enough such that at ANY point (meaning, in the times of hipocrates as today) there's going to be a list of very easily remedied dysfunctions and a list of very unremediable dysfiunctions.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 20:23:06 jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955688 - do I understand this claim as: if A assists B to use known-bad software X as opposed to known-worse software Y, while clearly stating the risk, A is then to blame for what harm may befall B?
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957195 << take the hospital analogy.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 20:24:16 jfw: AFAIK even the ol' USA has not quite reached the point where you're still liable even if you put the "warning: hot coffee is hot" warning on the hot coffee
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957197 << indeed it has ; look into "strict liability" sometime
mircea_popescu: the difference between the subsistence hunter and the instagram foodie isn't merely that the subsistence hunter doesn't have marble countertops or cuisinarts. a point readily verified by giving him some.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 19:54:12 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957173 - regarding the "because" there: there was perhaps a degree of teaching it because we'd built it, but I see it more the other way - a text-only Linux being a good choice for the job specifically because it doesn't have the GUI crutch and CLI illiteracy is one of the bigger barriers that otherwise intelligent people face to using serious
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957189 << quite so. using tools, ~thinking in ways which make their activity amenable to useful tools~ and so on.
mircea_popescu: gales or no gales, the man who can't cat | grep is closer to a boy than any other man.
mircea_popescu: so you know, as far as the life prospects, the future evolution, however you will name the sum-total potential of a person's existence, understanding how to command line is more important than meeting their father. it'll certaily do a lot for them, and it certainly CAN do way the fuck more for them.
mircea_popescu: whole "work-years", entire "departments" could readily be replaced by you know, half hour's worth of sed ; they aren't because us corporatelandia mostly exists as makework, to create the illusion for millions of ambitious derps that they're "doing something" lest they take to the streets and start throwing rocks. nevertheless, even if the cutting legs is systematically needed in socialism, to crate the sort of helpless vat
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problems are that cli-iliteracy is a serious, life-changing disability. in terms of severity, blindness compares, deafness does not. obviously the afflicted are scarcely aware, but this doesn't mean they're not afflicted.
mircea_popescu: obviously to a large degree you'll have to support your people, so you'll be working with their things to begin transitioning to sane things as a matter of necessity.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there's a mandatory time where you must irc, anymore than i think there's a mandatory time when eg people from #ossasepia must trilema or anything.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 18:42:14 dorion: One middleground we've looked at pivoting to is using a server with tmux session sharing combined with a voice or video call. That will provide a "classroom" experience for both instructor and student from the comfort/convenience of the home office.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957178 << not like it's forbidden or anything. i'm not saying you should marry all these people or anything like that. i think the way of looking at it is the central problem, once that's well anchored the specific ways you go about it in a circumstance or another's you know, a matter of circumstance.
mircea_popescu: ask everyone, from obscure shitholistan small lawyers to lobbes or nicoleci or anyone you meet, they can tell you.
mircea_popescu: look at the expansion angle : if ten days after you've sat down, dude says, "um... so my whole business is fucked by this data conversion problem", as they ALL FUCKING ARE, you must have lived under a rock somewhere if you believe "western world" "business" in its daily practice at the office is ANYTHING but trying to deal with data formats
mircea_popescu: build it around the relationship, their building, their lifecycle, their needs. do not build it around the imaginary "point", that isn't.
mircea_popescu: so my proposal is rather to look at the matter not as much as you're in the business of TEACHING LINUX (while getting together), but in the business of GETTING TOGETHER (while for instance teaching linux, or gales, or bitcoin, or whatever is needed)
mircea_popescu: if instead of taking actual women to actual cages and stocks i joined the choir invisible, and "did" TWICE, whatever, ten thousand times "as many", except you know, "not physically" to use an euphemism... woudl you be impressed with how much i've progressed ? would i be ten thiousand times better if instead of being real i collapsed into wholly imaginaey ?
mircea_popescu: but if you don't do that, "we don't know how to distinguish", "all abstractions are in principle just as good as any others" and so on.
mircea_popescu: so boggle with me at the sheer insanity of unleashed abstraction : the moment you put it in human frame, the moment you tie it down to the sanity engine of the brain, the part that ~actually~ works of it, having been honed into working through endless millenia of practice, having its capacity to distinguish right from wrong and correct from dumb evolved into existence, suddenly it's all fucking self-obvious.
mircea_popescu: there's no single kink, it's all straight as rain.
mircea_popescu: yet look at it in the cold, blue light of logic : between these three categories, (men and women in an atomic soup), (men jacking off in front of the computer to images of women it presents), (women cavorting naked in man's livingroom) and these three categories, (noobs and experts in an atomic soup), (noobs wanking on reddit to images of experts it presents), (experts teaching noob computers in noob's livingroom) the rela
mircea_popescu: honestly, i believe the being together part is actually more important than the "teaching linux" or "sticking it in her" or "playing with stocks and wheels" and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: yet what sort of fucking is that, ~if she's not even there~ ?
mircea_popescu: physical presence also limits me wrt to the sluts i can fuck, both in regards to variety (for instance, the typical redditard chronical masturbator "has sex" with a much greater variety of women that never heard of him) and in regards to whatever the fuck i can catch from them. like say the common cold, the fewer actual women you physically meet, the less variety of colds you'll get. obviously the subway is RIGHT OUT!!!
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 18:41:37 dorion: With that being said, physical presence limits us, both from clients we can work with and, as we grow, instructors we can onboard, e.g. spyked.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 18:42:14 dorion: One middleground we've looked at pivoting to is using a server with tmux session sharing combined with a voice or video call. That will provide a "classroom" experience for both instructor and student from the comfort/convenience of the home office.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 18:39:46 dorion: mircea_popescu I hope I've not waited too long, but I'm ready to ask you about the face to face structure jfw and I started with for jwrd.
mircea_popescu: mod6, alright then
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 20:23:06 jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955688 - do I understand this claim as: if A assists B to use known-bad software X as opposed to known-worse software Y, while clearly stating the risk, A is then to blame for what harm may befall B?
trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957195 << hm where's the line from mircea_popescu about the bum in the street screaming at you to get off HIS corner having more patriotism than "you've" ever had
jfw: Agreed then.
trinque: you must hear me with the series pounding on the fact that "found object, labelled" is not enough.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 20:13:36 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955683 - this is not necessarily the case though, no? lock in correspondent addresses up front, or gpg keys to verify delivery instructions offline, or send address by courier, whatever. Airgap does not solve all problems, obviously. Shooting yourself in the foot is not the gunsmith's fault is it?
trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957193 << you miss my point, which is not "and therefore never do things"
trinque: and I'd have said "mod6 what the fuck, there are already classes for keys" and then by god, we'd have babby's first culture brewing by lunch
snsabot: Logged on 2017-10-13 11:32:29 trinque: the introduction of new classes should be perma-banned
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 02:04:30 mp_en_viaje: i mean uh. the word's the same, ye olde beran, but the participle / past tense of it is "borne" in all cases when you're not talking of actual birth.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-19#1955775 - thanks, fixed. Indeed I recognized "borne" as correct once pointed out but then "wait, so what's the infinitive of born if it's not about the bearing?!"
jfw: AFAIK even the ol' USA has not quite reached the point where you're still liable even if you put the "warning: hot coffee is hot" warning on the hot coffee
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 22:37:41 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955617 << it solves only the pretense of being "not to blame" while still being very much to blame
jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955688 - do I understand this claim as: if A assists B to use known-bad software X as opposed to known-worse software Y, while clearly stating the risk, A is then to blame for what harm may befall B?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 22:36:14 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955615 << so then your inputs to the process are haxed, and you go diligently dispatch btc to 1HaxFuckYou
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955683 - this is not necessarily the case though, no? lock in correspondent addresses up front, or gpg keys to verify delivery instructions offline, or send address by courier, whatever. Airgap does not solve all problems, obviously. Shooting yourself in the foot is not the gunsmith's fault is it?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 18:39:58 dorion: To provide context, the main reason we started with this is because Gales as an environment is pure text, so the command line must be used. For the most part, the people we're prospecting don't have command line experience.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957173 - regarding the "because" there: there was perhaps a degree of teaching it because we'd built it, but I see it more the other way - a text-only Linux being a good choice for the job specifically because it doesn't have the GUI crutch and CLI illiteracy is one of the bigger barriers that otherwise intelligent people face to using serious
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/01/royal-yachting-association-discovers-their-database-was-leaked-in-2015/ << Qntra -- "Royal Yachting Association" Discovers Their Database Was Leaked In 2015!
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-24 13:14:56 mod6: The howto document now requires that you have Ada on your environment before you build, and the builder will also need to build starter_v_2 first, before any other steps are to be completed.