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ben_vulpes: or "rad-hot"
ben_vulpes: unscreened solar flux or something?
ben_vulpes: mars is too hot?
ben_vulpes reconsidering that masamoone box
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591575 << no need to stop if there's more to say
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591571 << o hey, you found the oldest and most heinous sins i didn't fix
ben_vulpes: but i may catastrophically misunderstand
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591569 << i used http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/joF2F/?raw=true to convince myself that this is not true when writing the thing at first
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591550 << gotcha, it was an &rest before which may explain the contortions
ben_vulpes: phf: thank you very much
ben_vulpes: adlai: wordpress, my friend. wordpress.
ben_vulpes: must go async, ty to you both
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if you can get gpg to crash without exiting zero, i misunderstand much about how this world works
ben_vulpes: that inspection is only performed on a bad exit code
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: naively, i expect gpg to exit 0 if the signature is good
ben_vulpes: phf: ty, keep it coming if you don't mind, i must go async
ben_vulpes: tried to dial back the programmer-imposed unnecessary complexity
ben_vulpes: ty asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: answered
ben_vulpes: strikingly similar to some other description of how perl grew "object oriented programming"
ben_vulpes: because "HOLY GRAIL: ONE LANG IN BROWSER AND SERVER"
ben_vulpes: it is used to further drive down the cost of human cogs crapping out lines of code
ben_vulpes: it is called as the man says "node.js"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: lul away
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what, you want /more/ radiation damage?
ben_vulpes: dunno, don't care
ben_vulpes: jurov: didn't polarbeard or whomever threaten us with a js v?
ben_vulpes: i kid, i kid.
ben_vulpes: "i did not choose the nih lifestyle, the nih lifestyle chose me"
ben_vulpes: walked into that one.
ben_vulpes: aiui, my options are link or shell. is this incorrect?
ben_vulpes: rather
ben_vulpes: nutso
ben_vulpes: makes sense
ben_vulpes: is shelling in principle insane?
ben_vulpes: anyways, mircea_popescu says "don't shell out to sha512sum"?
ben_vulpes: i am willing to do all sorts of stupid shit, buddy
ben_vulpes throws a coffee mug at phf
ben_vulpes: not indefinitely postpone releasing this vpatch while i wait for stan to release an ada cryptor and link that from cl
ben_vulpes: i am trying to figure out how to handle widely-distributed versions of ironclad not working in the way i need them to work for my v to verify hashes on press
ben_vulpes: pump the brakes there idea man
ben_vulpes: might be more practical to make a genesis for the fixed version
ben_vulpes: have not looked yet
ben_vulpes: guy lays out in his "how ironclad came to be" that he doesn't really spend much time on it anymore.
ben_vulpes: the one time i want a package manager to have the most recent commits...
ben_vulpes: phf: not in whatever quicklisp builds though, right?
ben_vulpes: phf linked the patch, he fixed it
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, phf, asciilifeform, mod6: thoughts?
ben_vulpes: plan then is to grind this patch for my v out shelling out to sha512sum
ben_vulpes: i'm also not really in a mood to make ironclad_genesis.vpatch today
ben_vulpes: more likely to work* on $box
ben_vulpes: i don't want to say something like "ensure you have HEAD of the Ironclad library", i think it's more likely and more in line with waht mod6 is doing to shell out to sha512sum
ben_vulpes: so here's what i'm thinking re: ironclad
ben_vulpes: whoa trinque that js is snappy
ben_vulpes: i don't usually fuck with dependencies, but when i do i want my ide to fix all of the problems for me
ben_vulpes: > seamlessly integrates with cocoapods
ben_vulpes: ah tight
ben_vulpes: phf: even naive xcode shits whitespace all over the place
ben_vulpes: kinda think "not working totally incidental" has not been a favor to its recipients.
ben_vulpes: wordpress of ecomm afaict
ben_vulpes: (at least the magento folks have the decency to call their phpball a "site")
ben_vulpes: anyone ever see the hoops people jump through on large "magento" sites?
ben_vulpes: "i tell ya tho, all that time you spend tweaking emacs is entirely useless." *navigates to precise spot of insanity* "well that's cool, but emacs is still a waste of time, i coulda found that on github in a few seconds"
ben_vulpes: "wait, how do you even find the source code for stuff?!"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: that'd be how i actually learned anything useful, finding a master jumping when told.
ben_vulpes: growing beards, wearing plaid
ben_vulpes: i'm also experimenting with alternative identities, imagining wearing a food truck, to see "how the other half lives"
ben_vulpes: ain't like alibaba and amz are going to stop shipping cheap petrocrap to the states
ben_vulpes: i have been considering buying a few beat up tow and box trucks and getting into the hauling of cars and storing of shit
ben_vulpes: whole racket is utterly abhorrent.
ben_vulpes: i once sat in on a sales meeting where this security gentleman terrorized a poor nonprofit into wasting tens of thousands of dollars on snake oil
ben_vulpes: i cannot stomach the security folks
ben_vulpes: 'something else'
ben_vulpes: there*
ben_vulpes: praytell what 'others' are they?
ben_vulpes: "just want"ing an office with a keg
ben_vulpes: i wonder what metrics are being gamed here
ben_vulpes: i am pretty sure this automated phone system just told me that there were 128 people "ahead of me in line", took down my number and then called me back immediately to put me on hold
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: you too
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: answered
ben_vulpes: dreppers and kochs and bears oh my
ben_vulpes: amusingly, sha512sum shows drepper as an author on this particular system
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591017 << i intuited the same thing, but that it didn't sha512 properly until...last year? induces ye olde pucker
ben_vulpes: "learning programming" is miserable and none of the things suggested "are programming"
ben_vulpes: whole first paragraph didn't register or what
ben_vulpes: did mircea_popescu think the piece was actually supposed to be useful for teaching noobz to c0d3?
ben_vulpes: collision detection etc?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591031 << eulora allows users to spawn n objects and move them around at arbitrary velocities? does physics sim with kinematics?
ben_vulpes: "just install a plugin!"
ben_vulpes: i feel a great disturbance in the force, as though a thousand seo experts were suddenly rousted from sweet slumber
ben_vulpes: !~google the problem of too much money
ben_vulpes: at this rate the kids will actually stop using google, as it doesn't show porn, point them towards pirated content or you know actually work at all anymore
ben_vulpes: in oooother lols, at least bing puts trilema on the first page of results when i search by article title
ben_vulpes: no, no
ben_vulpes: archived
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it was qntra'd
ben_vulpes: well i can't seem to get it to and now we have
ben_vulpes: have we done "sha512sum will not omit filenames from output" yet?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590797 << aye, although per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-25#1590640 you'll need to rename your seals as well
ben_vulpes: thank you phf
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-26#1590731 << i think maybe back away slowly from ironclad lest it blow up in my face then
ben_vulpes: ah, home sweet home
ben_vulpes: but it is not httptronic
ben_vulpes: !!key trinque
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: there is
ben_vulpes: trinque: ^^
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: kinda looks like it
ben_vulpes: ('it' == ironclad ?)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'll investigate
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: perhaps someday
ben_vulpes: well that'd be in stark contrast to the claim i remember
ben_vulpes: chaste hardware, promiscuous hardware
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590190 << ironclad claims to have a "pure lisp" implementation of rsa but i have not confirmed this for myself
ben_vulpes: it is a small but worth-noting difference between "put yer patches in this here directory, your signatures in this other, and your pubkeys in this third".
ben_vulpes: sorta
ben_vulpes: naw, kiddin
ben_vulpes: in which i realize that to get code review in tmsr you have to paste it into irc one line at a time
ben_vulpes: the naive o(n^2) calculation is to say "there is a signature for this patch" and not giving a shit about which signature, provided it corresponds to a key in .wot .
ben_vulpes: if it's fine, whatever
ben_vulpes: look i'm pointing at a promisetronic bit of v and saying "hey look i think this is a bit floppy"
ben_vulpes: also that mothers know which baby is theirs and a signature can't tell me which patch it belongs to
ben_vulpes: i was holding that one in abeyence for lols
ben_vulpes: it costs in complexity, yes. could be argued that it is a very minimal cost, but i would still prefer to "pick any signature from .seals that verifies" instead of the by my read promisetronic "pick any signature whose filename contains the filename of the patch under verification"
ben_vulpes: i suppose there's no practical way around the patches and signatures sharing a prefix.
ben_vulpes: i've not yet
ben_vulpes: any suggestions on where up the tree to nuke a branch and reduce complexity?
ben_vulpes: i'll buy it
ben_vulpes: i was a bit surprised that sb-ext:run-program did not signal a condition when the program so ran exited with something other than zero.
ben_vulpes: i explicitly tested error code downstream of sb-ext. it's not that it "doesn't pass error codes" it's that error code is surfaced in the process struct that sb-ext:run-program returns
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: didja read it?
ben_vulpes: the situation's a good example of the tension between writing code that does one thing really specifically well, and fits-in-head, vs a larger program that handles eg conditions and the concomittant complexity
ben_vulpes: so i'm writing some trivial conditions for when it does fail, which means handling eg missing gpg keys
ben_vulpes: sb-ext, and rail at me for using an implementation-dependent sub program library if you will, does not seem to signal error conditions when external programs exit with nonzero code
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: only patch's fuzzy application, nothing more.
ben_vulpes: 'tis the obvious characters.
ben_vulpes: fuzz*-killer
ben_vulpes: fwiw i have a full-killer sitting in my workdir, for release later
ben_vulpes: mkthen
ben_vulpes: what guarantees have i of this "should"?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm happy to implement post-patch hash checks
ben_vulpes: hanbot: lol again?
ben_vulpes: "help" is the motherfucking dog whistle of the left
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: subject of "making things 1000x more complex" i embarked on handling various conditions a v might encounter (missing pubkey, unsigned patch, mismatched hashes after a press...) and i daresay the volume of code must increase!
ben_vulpes: nono, the diqsux comment
ben_vulpes: "in other word salad"
ben_vulpes: i only really know what one of the courses is, am content to let the chefs work their surprise magic
ben_vulpes: i'm not even going to start on the five courses currently under preparation
ben_vulpes: i assume good mushroom, $girl went out and selected them from the hipsters herself
ben_vulpes: there's one shallot, one cheese and sausage, one mushroom spinach, and one more plain
ben_vulpes: oya, ours is a veritably moist cake
ben_vulpes stares at the half gingerbread cake
ben_vulpes: gingerbread soaked in run?
ben_vulpes: where 'convince' is something along the lines of "no seriously you have all the ingredients it would be a sin to not make it. also i want it. so..."
ben_vulpes: and i have 'convinced' the girls to make the traditional family coffee cake
ben_vulpes: but this was not enough for me
ben_vulpes: there are several dozens of eggs worth of quiche in this house right now, and myriad cakes
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: quiche
ben_vulpes: in other nyooz, $offspring issued his first low-ambiguity ASL gesture this morning: 'food'
ben_vulpes: ah yes, eight is a better number than ten.
ben_vulpes: in ten slides
ben_vulpes: http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/1/211100-pure-randomness-extracted-from-two-poor-sources/fulltext << asciilifeform: in which the acm tells the world that fuckgoats was tin woman overkill
ben_vulpes: 'tis a fertile topic.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: perhaps
ben_vulpes: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/fancy-bear-hack-of-ukrainian-artillery-fighters-shows-future-of-war << android apps distributed over forums is some great indicator of how the world works
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: p funny
ben_vulpes: in "comparing made up numbers" news
ben_vulpes: haw haw haw btc market cap > twitter market cap
ben_vulpes: aok, so 1 then?
ben_vulpes: better to not offer that feature if that's how it works today, shinohai
ben_vulpes: o also vc
ben_vulpes: shinohai and Framedragger ?
ben_vulpes: what'd the repulic accrete this year, 2 new faces?
ben_vulpes: i did mistake that to mean "vs the public is pointed to as example vs. vs whose operations are private to the owner"
ben_vulpes: aaaah
ben_vulpes: very much a harem-v. but -- works for me.
ben_vulpes: and yes, thing has sharp edges, betrays exit codes for some unix processes
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that genesis is mildly diddled from the earlier paste
ben_vulpes: do let me know if you find anything odd about it
ben_vulpes: ty asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: crazily enough, pingbacks work when issued from my own wp instance
ben_vulpes: phf: and how!
ben_vulpes: rebase/regrind to move the patch in the tree and seal to...seal.
ben_vulpes: reseal, what is this. signed same matter again?
ben_vulpes: all are seal imho
ben_vulpes: whence 're', though. that other key was 'derpderp ben_vulpes', not 'foundation chair ben_vulpes'
ben_vulpes: what's wrong with 'signing'?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588519 << 'rebase' in my mind entails changing vpatch to have new hashes, or some other mutation. just transmitting a new sig does not change where a patch might lie in the tree.
ben_vulpes: can you cook a diff between v9..5 and v9..4 ?
ben_vulpes: mod6: appears to address concerns
ben_vulpes: and yes, phf, when i am not exhausted i will also produce a genesis.
ben_vulpes: from 340 lines down to 224.
ben_vulpes: mod6, asciilifeform, trinque, phf, mircea_popescu, and anyone else tracking vtronic gnashing: i dusted off and rewrote my cl V implementation. i'll follow up sometime tomorrow with more demo usage, and a more robust demonstration of wot-variant pressing. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/juTpM/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo, pete_dushenski: in re graphite, "meaningfully stand behind their Q" perhaps?
ben_vulpes: jurov: sql just falls out of "i shall make tmsr a block explorer", no more, no less.
ben_vulpes: dun worry, no such is on the table
ben_vulpes: a few minutes of thinking while working on something related did clear this up for ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: no pressing drunk
ben_vulpes: that'd be why it's fine
ben_vulpes: without a flow that renders all patches. but fine
ben_vulpes: i expect it to be a royal pain to run down "which patch is missing sigs and breaking the flow from genesis to whatever"
ben_vulpes: it gets resolved
ben_vulpes: 'twas a joke
ben_vulpes: someone else entertain the man
ben_vulpes: it's a very special haskellian snowflake that makes it so i don't have to think about that so nyah
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm going to need that gas mask
ben_vulpes: they're barely-compiling c tools in unix land
ben_vulpes: quit fuckin with my head
ben_vulpes: dude cat and ls are not relational algebra
ben_vulpes: there *is* an ansi standard for sql
ben_vulpes: that is a very liberal use of the acronym
ben_vulpes: few hundred?
ben_vulpes: surely a symlink wouldn't eat more than a few bytes now would it
ben_vulpes: lol yes, most boys
ben_vulpes: fill, sure. but an /infinite number/ thereof?
ben_vulpes: a rough heuristic, granted
ben_vulpes: because every open source anything i've ever touched has failed in precisely these sorts of extreme use cases
ben_vulpes: knowing nothing about fsen, i doubt even reiser can handle infinite symlinks.
ben_vulpes: million flies, maybe. infinite symlinks, guaranteed not.
ben_vulpes: sure yeah, i remember the design pretty well
ben_vulpes: chiptune christmas, if you want to give any olds a migrane
ben_vulpes: bloodsports
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586531 << i don't recall the proposed tests, actually. i mulled on this for a bit, am reluctant to try any sort of implementation until i finish the sqlator which a) is probably just sunk cost fallacy rearing its head, as i've done not much there but design the schema and prep a massive ingest job and b) has now been bumped down my todo list *again* in favor of vtronic
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587935 << upon review of mine, it simply sucked horrendously and i suspect that i knew at some level at the time.
ben_vulpes: biz-commentary-cum-agricultural-fanfiction is my favorite new genre of 2016
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