Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-04-05 | 2014-04-07 → ↓
mircea_popescu: decimation you saw that epic bridge jury rig btw ?
decimation: heh no what are you talking about?
mircea_popescu: o god lemme find it.
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decimation: as I recall you were hangoing around the northeast
decimation: that's so sad
mircea_popescu: i went from new hampshire to new mexico.
decimation: the engineer who designed that bridge is probably crying
decimation: the northeast is the worst in my experience
mircea_popescu: decimation maybe he suicided with a rivet gun
decimation: I thought he fell out of a building while being shot with a nail gun
mircea_popescu: he accidentally died of a self inflicted would while trying to propel himself with a nailgun
decimation: heh. Fred Reed's blog is pretty classic too: http://www.fredoneverything.net/
mircea_popescu: anyway, back in 2004 mass was fighting like 3 separare wrongful death suits arising out of chunks of concrete coming off the road and flying into people's cars
mircea_popescu: which was the first time i heard of that sort of shit.
tg2: we have that problem in quebec currently
tg2: overpasses falling down
decimation: yeah that was after they spent billions on the "big dig"
mircea_popescu: big dig wasn't nearly done yet
mircea_popescu: but no, these were just poorly maintained state highways
mircea_popescu: no fucking idea who told you people cement works for this application btw
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mircea_popescu: europe is all asphalt.
asciilifeform: so, there i was, checking out a potential replacement for my flat, and saw this, alive:
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
decimation: www.nytimes.com/2006/07/12/us/12tunnel.html
asciilifeform: first thought was 'gasenwagen'
decimation: I thought you were talking about that. as I recall it was because they used substandard adhesive
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty epic
decimation: ascii you should just rent a room in the marriott across from fort meade
chetty: hahaha save the man some travel $$
asciilifeform: perhaps those are... free.
asciilifeform: but 'one way.'
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decimation: ascii I do agree with your point about rental property. I recently moved from a house to a rental, and when I told the agent about my credit score she said " you should be buying"
decimation: the assumption is that only lowlifes with no credit rent
asciilifeform: on top of this, it is virtually impossible to rent a house at all where i live.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.05581 = 0.1674 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: they exist, but tend to be 'for students' (even when hours away from any kind of school) and full of antiquated crap
asciilifeform: imagine paying $3k/mo for a building with no garbage disposal
decimation: yeah in my experience most "landlords" are real estate agents who generally are happy with a zero cashflow - they write off the depreciation against their income
asciilifeform: actually, my understanding is that many of them are 'civilians' who went 'underwater'
asciilifeform: i know one fellow like that. just trying to stem losses
moiety: i would like to know how they expect you to build a credit rating when you can't get credit when you don't have a credit rating in the first place.
asciilifeform: man wants to move - can't, because no one will pay for his building what he paid.
asciilifeform: so he rents it out, often at a loss
decimation: yeah that's the other population. obviously, neither is interested in paying anything for property maintenance
asciilifeform: moiety: in the u.s. (no idea about elsewhere) - they have 'special' credit offers for the freshly bankrupt. with 40% interest, etc.
mircea_popescu: i don't get this "what hge paid" criterion.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck difference does it make what he paid.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it does - to him.
asciilifeform: chumper 'buys' a house, wants to move, discovers that he'll be stuck paying for the rest of his natural life for a house he isn't living in
moiety: asciilifeform: just seems so daft that you have to get messed up to get it and staying debt free actually harms you
mircea_popescu: moiety thats just the contemporary implementation of "every man needs a lord"
chetty: moiety, but thats the whole bankster trap, in a nutshell
asciilifeform: moiety: in u.s., folks with money traditionally keep credit cards, which are paid off as soon as they are used, for 'x percent back' crap.
moiety: i pay more for a one bed flat than colleagues do for three bedroom houses
moiety: you can't get a credit card in the uk without a credit rating
moiety: but you need a credit card to get a credit rating
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tg2: cellphone contract will usually build credit )
asciilifeform: i started looking for new flat soon after mp's essay on 'bezzle dollar' and thought it was hilariously fitting
decimation: yeah homes are definitely fully funded with bezzle
asciilifeform: 'i have $xxxx.' 'sorry, you can't get - shit - for $xxxx' - or for '$xxxxx'
asciilifeform: 'fish is what we don't have over at the fish counter'
tg2: you trying to buy shark with goldfish budget
decimation: not only that, the local governments lard their coffers with property taxes
decimation: which people just roll into the "how much do I have to pay per month" calculation
asciilifeform: tg2: more interesting than that. you can easily 'buy' the shark with the 'goldfish' price - because you are also paying with your arse virginity in that scenario
tg2: property tax is the biggest scheme
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4031 @ 0.00096492 = 3.8896 BTC [+]
tg2: there needs to be some recourse for home owners that get "reevaluated" at 10% more when their house has not inreased in value
asciilifeform: tg2: the folks who 'bought' during bubble peak, etc. are still doomed
ozbot: Prince George's County Public Schools - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
moiety: you can claim free land in scotland
asciilifeform: moiety: while you're at it, we can also note that living far out at sea is free
asciilifeform: but it doesn't exactly work for most people.
decimation: you can live aboard a boat docked at baltimore for a few $k per year
asciilifeform: decimation: last i checked, marina fee + utilities was close to the cost of small flat
asciilifeform: in most american ports
moiety: asciilifeform: one guy claimed 50 hectares, started to build, got some people occupying the land at a rented rate, paid for the build. free house, lots of land
asciilifeform: not to mention other interesting nuances (see herr orlov's blog, not me, for detail) - e.g. dry-docking regularly to patch/repaint the damn thing
decimation: yeah boats are a money pit
moiety: the problem being the land that is free isn't easy to build on usually
decimation: I suspect most "free land" in scotland is either on a cliff or in a moor
asciilifeform: and since when is construction 'free' ?
moiety: decimation: it all depends how long/hard you are willing to look. its not like its listed anywhere
moiety: not the construction being free asciilifeform but it was paid for by the money from the people occupying the land for him, which is actually part of the terms. win win
decimation: ascii I think to some extent living near a major metro area in the US is a chump's game
moiety: he just threw a post up on a forum
asciilifeform: decimation: i never said i wasn't a chump. but there are different species of chump.
asciilifeform: there is, for instance, a kind of gristly and sinewy chump that grinds apart in the chumpatron very reluctantly
asciilifeform: and there's the kind which crunches eagerly, like chocolate
moiety: and theres the kind that wind up there out of obligation
decimation: well, the us today is pretty much an enormous chumpatron
decimation: from which escape is neigh impossible, and alternatives few
asciilifeform: escape isn't impossible, but requires reaching 'escape velocity'
asciilifeform: like a gravitational 'well'
asciilifeform: best advice for folks not yet parked in the gravity well is 'stay the hell out'
asciilifeform: much cheaper/easier than having to rocket out later.
decimation: yeah, this is true. I wonder what all the europeans who came over in the 1800's would have made of this outcome?
ozbot: More than 3,100 Americans renounced citizenship last year: FBI - National | Globalnews.ca
chetty: when they actually build that border fence you know you are trouble
asciilifeform: the fellow who bought my 'urbit dukedom' for 4.5btc publicly burned his u.s. passport.
asciilifeform: (long ago)
chetty: well formal renounce costs money :P
decimation: I don't think that actually works
moiety: a lot of people seem to have turned their attention to canada thesedays
asciilifeform: the fun part is, no one will force the buggers to honour the renounciation, if they don't want to
asciilifeform: just as the escapee can't say 'i do not want to be in any database' and make it stick
decimation: true. just like the Royal Navy in the early 1800's
decimation: "oh, you've become an American now? good on ya - you sail for the King now"
chetty: yeah doesn't stop much, but mostly lets you open bank accounts (banks outside us are afraid of americans these days)
decimation: as if foriegn banks operate in the interest of their account holders
moiety: free guns with us bank accounts
asciilifeform: chetty: presently usg threatens penalties on foreign banks who 'hide' escapees
asciilifeform: now let's say they stop honouring renunciations
asciilifeform: plenty of historic precedent
chetty: exactly, I don't blame the outside banks at all, its prudent
asciilifeform: ;;google republikflucht
gribble: Republikflucht - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republikflucht>; Crossing the Line: Republikflucht between Defection and Migration ...: <http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199243280.001.0001/acprof-9780199243280-chapter-3>; Republikflucht - Wiktionary: <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Republikflucht>
asciilifeform: 'you grew up in our glorious motherland? still want to leave, bastard? fine - pony up $1mil, to cover the cost of building you'
tg2: thats how slavery started
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18550 @ 0.00096679 = 17.934 BTC [+] {2}
tg2: but the reverse
tg2: lol
decimation: right, my only point is that they are all fractional reserve banks on the British model. The bezzle follows you everywhere
tg2: canada has that
tg2: its called brain drain
chetty: but they reach out all over the world to serve those unfortunate 'unbanked'
tg2: education and healthcare heavily subsidized, then high talent individuals go to silicon valley and work there
kakobrekla: this brain drain thingy seems to be everywhere. but how could that be, it has to drain to something, unless its sewer?
kakobrekla: to someplace *
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the answer lies in the sewer.
chetty: going galt?
asciilifeform: high talent individuals go to silicon valley << world-renowned chumpatron. leaving aside the question of whether the folks there 'work' (in the sense of producing anything valuable) - they get sheared very properly, for much of what they make - at least the ones who wouldn't care to commute 4 hrs/day
kakobrekla: i was afraid so ascii.
decimation: yeah silicon valley is at least 2x worse than the DC area
decimation: no rational engineer would work there for less than $300k per year
decimation: but they make $100k
kanzure: kids out of school are making $90-$100k in the bay area
asciilifeform: 100k won't buy you a garret to starve in, there.
decimation: kanzure: how much do they make 15 years in?
kanzure: so anyone with an ounce of experience is making.. a lot more. :)
decimation: I bet not more than $150k
kanzure: well, from personal experience i'd say at least $.. oh, yeah, definitely more than 150
asciilifeform: incidentally, we are close to a useful definition of 'rich' - fellow is 'rich' if he can tell the man with the shears to go to hell, and make it stick.
kanzure: at *minimum* the metric is +$1k/month per year of experience
kanzure: and that's underperforming
asciilifeform: engineer who has to pay $100k to live within range of his $150k employer, cannot be described even as 'well to do'
kanzure: here is the survey i did,
decimation: no, he's effectively a wage slave
kanzure: anyway, 15 years of experience can easily get 25-30k/mo
decimation: right. because your poll said so?
kanzure: experience
kanzure: the poll is only to help idiots calibrate that $90k is low-end of the scale
decimation: okay, let's pretend that 15 year veterans are all making $300k - when a reasonable home is $1 mil, they are still pretty poor
asciilifeform: kanzure: the poll (even if we assume that every answer was truthful and representative of something) isn't particularly useful, because it lumps in things which are quite unlike.
asciilifeform: 300k vice president of widgets inc. is not a member of the same profession as his engineer.
kanzure: asciilifeform: i would say it could be useful for the idiot calibration
kanzure: and sure, i was focusing on people who write software
kanzure: or at least.. pretend to.
kanzure: <?= gox(); ?>
asciilifeform: 300k is, afaik, always a case of 'wrote'
decimation: these same $300k vp's famously conspired to underpay said engineers
kanzure: i was not a "vp"
asciilifeform: except in the wonderful case described earlier, where a chumper pays $250k to live near 300k job
kanzure: good gigs tend to be clustered around anything that says 'individual contributor'
asciilifeform: engineers, typically, sit in 'gravity wells' - because so long as you are bound to some geographic location, even a very large one, the folks with the shears come out
asciilifeform: and slice off your disposable income
kanzure: huh? all of my work has been remote.
kanzure: i guess you could claim gravity is impacting speed of light constraints on my work, but wtf?
asciilifeform: kanzure: you're in mp's weight class, then.
kanzure: magic pony?
asciilifeform: i'm speaking of me fellow zeros, not heroes
kanzure: haha you are a zero?
kanzure: what sort of fucked up math are you using?
mikaeldice: So, this guy who said that people who put money on an exchange are stupid sheep and that the next MtGox fiasco 'is coming' is now opening his own exchange.
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asciilifeform: i have to, after all, concede that folks who have escaped from gravity well, while i sit in, are more clever than i
asciilifeform: hard to think of a better 'iq test'
decimation: yeah, me too
chetty: mikaeldice, hahahaha
decimation: except, the case of those who immigrated to the US looking for escape...
asciilifeform: decimation: 20 yrs. ago it wasn't an obviously stupid thing to do
kanzure: the only problem with this conversation is that i can't figure out why would you want to be employed (of all people)
asciilifeform: kanzure: to eat?
decimation: kanzure, are you implying that one with suitable skills can easily make $300k without "knowing" the "right people"?
kanzure: hmm i don't know about easily, things do take "work"
kanzure: and you don't have to know the right people in advance, but you do eventually have to meet someone
kanzure: at least one person (namely the person who would be paying you)
kanzure: also you have to be able to provide actual value. no coding an airplane into the ground.
asciilifeform: kanzure: if you're the kind of hero who can demand 300k without ever having to physically meet a client, attend a whatever board, deliver physical samples in person, etc - more power to you
asciilifeform: but i dare say that you (and mp?) may be alone in this weight class, among us
decimation: my "experience" is quite full of people who are apparently quite intelligent and are unable to demand such a rate
kanzure: alas, on one of my recent gigs i somehow ended up traveling for a week every few months.. it was trickery. :(
decimation: I guess I just don't see the offers on dice.com or whatever
asciilifeform: i've often had 'interesting' conversations with people to whom i suggested calculating their wage 'per hour of actual work'
kanzure: knowing even just a little bit of programming puts you beyond the hope of most job sites
kanzure: so, what people do instead is more like in-bound marketing
asciilifeform: with the latter defined by 'doing anything that you would not do if you didn't have to'
kanzure: where their open source projects, blogs, conference talks/videos, whatever, serves as a way of directing traffic to them
kanzure: and then they get picked up by the industrial whales or do contracting gigs
kanzure: naturally this ends up causing some weirdness.. some people focusing on just hadoop or whatever. which is weird. but you can see why it happens.
asciilifeform: i don't dispute that there live unique specialists who are paid $xxx k for something that could be described as 'engineering.' but most of them are on some kind of physical leash, however long.
kanzure: oh, i'm not even talking about the people who started the projects
kanzure: not-highly-unique but really as soon as you know more than a handful of things, you're already likely something that doesn't exist somewhee else in aggregate
kanzure: ("did i mention that i cry myself to sleep while making shitty PCBs every night?")
kanzure: *somewhere
kanzure: now excuse me i must go cry over a shitty xml parser http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/p2pfoundation/dumpspot/pullparser.py
asciilifeform: kanzure: the way i understand it, this is not how markets actually work. if i'm the only one who knows how to build xxx, i don't get to collect $maxint for building an xxx. simply, xxx doesn't get made.
asciilifeform: (or, it is made - evenings/weekends.)
kanzure: it's more like.. finding companies with lots of money, and then solving their problems using what you know.
kanzure: and then selecting those companies more carefully so that the solutions happen to be things that wont bore you to death
decimation: there are many details missing here, but it seems to me that kanzure is basically saying that big gov't/corps are willing to pay $100x to get what they could otherwise pay $x to get
asciilifeform: i've yet to see a living case of this that wasn't in the 'pay 250 to live in range of the 300' territory.
kanzure: so wait, your thesis is that all highly-paid individuals are getting screwed?
asciilifeform: decimation: the parsimonious hypothesis is much simpler - some people get access to what drips from the money printer pipeline by having the right friends
asciilifeform: or sucking the right cocks
decimation: yeah I agree
kanzure: is it possible that there are people that are getting paid relative to the value that they create?
asciilifeform: a much smaller set actually provides $maxint of value
asciilifeform: but they aren't 'employees' in any sense
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kanzure: haha neobeeq
kanzure: is that faked?
decimation: I think it's true that a "web of trust" of competent individuals act as hired guns to do jobs for govt/corps
decimation: but I don't think that is a large population
decimation: and their pay is largely decided by their position on their wot
asciilifeform: decimation: this does appear to be the way it works, where i live.
decimation: note, that this isn't exactly a 40 year career plan
decimation: at some point the harvard MBA is going to ask "Why are we paying this guy $300k when we could hire 20 Indians for the same?"
asciilifeform: decimation: why would he ask this question about his best friend?
kanzure: because i've managed 20 indians and my quality and quantity of output was still better at the same itme
kanzure: *time
kanzure: (except it wasn't indians, it was vietnamese, and they were actually very good)
decimation: he wouldn't of course; but when he retires the next young gun trying to cut the bottom line would
kanzure: and then they'd wonder why their site keeps getting hacked etc
asciilifeform: next guy - next set of parasites (in the original, roman sense of the word.)
kanzure: and why the product is 18 months behind
kanzure: "but we added 200 people!"
asciilifeform: kanzure: i'd be surprised if anyone here hasn't read (or lived!) 'mythical man-month'
kanzure: actually, i haven't :)
kanzure: i just pretend that i have
asciilifeform: you just described 'living' it.
decimation: I would recommend it
kanzure: well, yes, but i stole it from the book
kanzure: yeah i know i should read it, i'm just terrible
decimation: kanzure I presume this is you: https://github.com/kanzure/
kanzure: yes
decimation: I wouldn't be willing to develop in javascript for $300k
decimation: that's why I'm a zero I guess
kanzure: oh yeah, it's fucking awful
kanzure: definitely not high on my list of things i'm proud of
decimation: ascii if only some prince were willing to pay you develop your loper-os
kanzure: fuck that, i want my headset
kanzure: my saiyan viewfinder
kanzure: uh, scouter
truffles: time to level up to super
asciilifeform: 'I wouldn't be willing to develop in javascript for $300k' << this goes back to the original point i was trying to make, when i mentioned hunting for flat (i generally don't discuss crap like this without a good reason) -
asciilifeform: one man's 300k is not the same as another's
kanzure: sure. i wouldn't be willing to go into an office for $150k.
asciilifeform: in the sense that if you have to live in a particular place, or worse, become a certain kind of person, to earn it, you are in fact very poor
asciilifeform: poorer than a beggar, in some cases
truffles: what kinda baller r u dood
truffles: 150k id go in super early too ;D
kanzure: i smoke lines of code?
kanzure: it's not as great as you think
asciilifeform: likewise, one man's 300k may buy a palace (in costa rica), another's - a converted garage in palo alto
truffles: sure is, id live for like 5yrs + on that
kanzure: US salaries are discussed in pre-tax terms
kanzure: (i know, it's stupid)
asciilifeform: truffles: which is precisely why it is reserved for the folks who agreed to the conditions of indenture
asciilifeform: i.e. throwing most of the 300 directly to the vultures
asciilifeform: ;;google FIRE economy
gribble: FIRE economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRE_economy>; Official FIRE Economy site: <http://www.fireeconomy.com/>; FIRE Economy Definition | Investopedia: <http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fire-economy.asp>
truffles: not that id sign up for a job of u know e.g. killing ppl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.0009651 = 3.3779 BTC [-]
truffles: but ppl sign up to join the military daily..
truffles: do they even make 30k?
kanzure: is that a threat
kanzure: they actually make out ok depending on whether or not they dump it all into a corvette
asciilifeform: signing bonus alone, last i checked, was close to 30k
asciilifeform: (scratch that - re-enlistment bonus)
decimation: in my experience the rich around the DC area are mostly military http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2013BHA/a/13bahwdepofDC.htm
decimation: 27 year old with a wife gets $2800 tax-free per month
truffles: blackwater?
decimation: on top of free food and medical care
decimation: with the possibility of converting to a well-paid contract position upon 20 years of "service"
truffles: thought u had to be contracting to get decent money
asciilifeform: not sure in what sense a fellow who gets to not only do work which he doesn't necessarily feel like doing, but also get sent off as cannon fodder - can be thought of as 'rich'
MisterE: there are many reasons people join the military
MisterE: the most common is they have nothing else
asciilifeform: he's essentially a more physically-fit version of the palo alto programmer
MisterE: it's eithe rthat or the streets
truffles: sure u can have a pure heart going in
asciilifeform: does not own his arse.
MisterE: now with middle class in the dump it's looking better and better
truffles: we're not discussing that
kanzure: why didn't DPR blackmail the fbi?
MisterE: contractors make more for sure
truffles: <MisterE> now with middle class in the dump it's looking better and better>>> to join the US military?
decimation: the number who end up cannon fodder are very small
MisterE: yes
decimation: us military are mustly bureaucrats with coordianted clothing
truffles: u srs dood
truffles: arent they downsizing
MisterE: heh you seen their budget? is it downsizing?
truffles: i believe it will be
MisterE: US can not afford to downsize the military industrial comples jobs program
MisterE: instant recession
MisterE: complex*
decimation: not to mention it employs most of the scant 300k electrical engineers total in the us
truffles: guess we will see in the coming years
asciilifeform: growing mil budget does not necessarily translate to more pig slots at the trough.
MisterE: can barely stop QE without blood all over the floor it's a shaky house of cards
MisterE: $500 hammers :0
ozbot: 2015 budget released: How the cuts affect pay, BAH, per diem and Tricare | Military Times | military
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 16 @ 0.0075 = 0.12 BTC [+]
decimation: "The Pentagon is also mounting a new attempt to cut travel costs. Specifically, that effort will reduce per diem rates for troops on extended travel. It will also eliminate reimbursements for laundry services, bottled water and other ?incidental? expenses. Officials could not immediately provide details of the new per diem rates."
decimation: sounds like serious cuts
MisterE: this is only a proposed budget
asciilifeform: everyone loves the $500 hammer. but how many people who laugh at the hammer have ever built a one-off prototype of anything?
MisterE: by the time congress hacks it up military spending will increase
asciilifeform: what do you suppose it would cost to build your pc by hand, in a quantity of five?
asciilifeform: assume you don't have to fabricate the ICs - only mount them.
truffles: yea seems clear that downsizing is imminent
decimation: assuming you lack a competent technician, it would probably be $1000's
MisterE: we shall see
MisterE: history is not on the side of downsizing
asciilifeform: decimation: add a zero or two.
MisterE: one trumped up conflict between now and passing of a budget and that is all out the window
truffles: one of u painted vets as having a rosy time of it, not the reality for most afaik
decimation: for something complex or fancy, sure
MisterE: vets are really screwed now
MisterE: for many of the same reasons they go into the military they are screwed when they come out
MisterE: unless they can work for a private contractor
asciilifeform: the military folks aren't only being paid in money
asciilifeform: there are intangibles. quite a few people would - pay - to fight in a war.
MisterE: yea GI Bill (too bad an education is worth so much less now) and the home loan are good
truffles: id sign up to fight in a zombie apocalypse situation for sure
MisterE: healthcare is so-so if you're not messed up too bad
MisterE: aww hell yea!
truffles: not if its fast zombs though
MisterE: truffles: I would just request a flame thrower
MisterE: no only the slow lumbering ones
asciilifeform: 'fast zombies' - analogous to 'fast neutrons' ?
MisterE: with the retarded lurch
MisterE: best thing about the GI bill is they can let their kids use it
MisterE: few soldiers come off the front lines fit to enter college
truffles: society*
MisterE: not that they were fit for college before enlisting
MisterE: for being socially aware and having great control over our environment we are a pretty rotten bunch of animals
MisterE: considering how we treat each other
truffles: when parasites are in charge its expected ldo
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04898997 = 0.147 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.035 = 0.105 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.0009651 = 5.0668 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <kanzure> kids out of school are making $90-$100k in the bay area <<< sure. but the 10 year veteran is not making 5-10mn.
mircea_popescu: which is the problem.
mircea_popescu: <mikaeldice> So, this guy who said that people who put money on an exchange are stupid sheep and that the next MtGox fiasco 'is coming' is now opening his own exchange. << which guy ?
kakobrekla: wtf nonsense.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 3318 @ 0.00016453 = 0.5459 BTC [-] {6}
decimation: Mr. Fasbit is very proud that you can be short as well as long
decimation: that's apparently a special feature of his "exchange"
mircea_popescu: lol ok anonforum guy
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suspect the earlier lengthy discussion about money conflates two different uses of the thing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04898997 = 0.147 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.03461033 = 0.1038 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: money can be sustenance or control.
mircea_popescu: people who aren't in the business of control (such as engineers, say) wouldn't -logically- be paid enough money to go into 2nd category.
mircea_popescu: they'd be paid enough to support themselves.
mircea_popescu: in this sense the rate-control agreement of the employers in sv is quite rational and in effect socially beneficial
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.08299776 = 0.249 BTC [-]
decimation: I agree it is rational from their perspective. And clearly, there are loads of engineers and "engineers" who are ready to signup
mircea_popescu: if you overpay them the bezzle-usd just runs into inflation.
mircea_popescu: suppose tomorrow the agreement was that no engineer working in sv is paid under 350mn dollars a year.
decimation: except as I pointed out awhile ago, there are only 300k EE's in the us total
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.08299776 = 0.664 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: what other effects would you expect, except for rents being in the 20mn a month range ?
decimation: well, this is why rents in sv are already astronomical
mircea_popescu: yes, this is true. but they are not managers, they're not the sort of people who play the resource allocation game. thus they have no business handling money as a % of total supply.
mircea_popescu: they only get sustenance money.
mircea_popescu: there's two kinds of money see ? money-%, like btc. that's the money used by the people who allocate resources.
decimation: except, old republicans would point out that the managers used to not consider themselves worth of % of total business money
mircea_popescu: there's also money-flat, like what most people thing of "dollars". these are used to buy groceries with.
mircea_popescu: that may be.
truffles: 2 kinds of money like bills and coins?
mircea_popescu: resources still have to be allocated, somehow, by someone/thign.
truffles: prob mean 2 kinds of uses*
decimation: this whole "the ceo should get 1% of the business" deal is something that happened in the 80's with the increasing bezzle
decimation: greater bezzle leads to lesser bezzle
mircea_popescu: decimation looky : there are two types of questions before mankind. one type reduces to what ? the other type reduces to how ?
mircea_popescu: the people answering how-questions don't need (or want) the tools used by the people answering what-questions.
decimation: except there are also who? whom? questions
truffles: why when
decimation: I don't deny that allocating resources is hard work worthy of pay
mircea_popescu: who is what.
mircea_popescu: not a matter of "worthy" see ?
mircea_popescu: it'll have to be done, and so it will be done.
mircea_popescu: and it's not harder than any other. if all we have are shitty engineers, are htey not worthy or less worthy of pay ?
mircea_popescu: you rule compared to roman engineers 2 millenia ago, and suck compared to derpistan engineers of 4015
mircea_popescu: what's that matter.
truffles wonders if any1 is following this rant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00096483 = 12.7358 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2655 @ 0.000164 = 0.4354 BTC [-] {3}
decimation: right, I get your point, but in the context of today the problem is that bezzle-finance has made the job of resource allocation niegh impossible
decimation: as we have covered before, what this ends up doing is favoring those who in the wot of those who control the printing press
decimation: as would be the case in any time or place I suppose
mircea_popescu: <decimation> right, I get your point, but in the context of today the problem is that bezzle-finance has made the job of resource allocation niegh impossible << yes, tis true, but also somewhat unrelated to the issue of engineer pay.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34059 @ 0.00096127 = 32.7399 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: in a sense, if one finds himself bored in the laser lab and looking at the stars, one should switch from solid state to large body physics
mircea_popescu: rather than try and make the laser shoot stars.
mircea_popescu: i personally think a grown man should possess a working knowledge of both fields, at least enough to make him conversant in either.
decimation: in the us it is very difficult to find these 'captains of industry' who are leading the exploitation. management talent is lacking more severely than engineering talent
mircea_popescu: absolutely.
decimation: this probably causes most engineers to have contempt for those over them
mircea_popescu: competent managers are always in short supply. engineers used to be, but 500 years of systematic how-to-twerk videos have managed to squeeze an astonishing amount of butt out of the ass.
mircea_popescu: management doesn't yeild as well to the scientific method, sadly, and spitefully.
decimation: yes, this is true, and thus most managers are simply born
decimation: or, were born with the predeliction to seek out experience to learn the 'trade'
mircea_popescu: or something.
truffles: nepotism is a great trade
bocobit: how do you guys feel about the private mission to mars
mircea_popescu: doubtful.
bocobit: would you sign up knowing its a one way trip?
truffles: if i were a con sure
decimation: what would such a mission be expected to yeild? knowledge?
chetty: bocobit, yup
decimation: what could be gained by sending humans than cannot be gained from robots?
mircea_popescu: decimation lawsuits.
bocobit: who was the four man on the moon?
bocobit: fourth*
truffles: dont think they have advance enough robots out decimation
mircea_popescu: i have some popcorn prepared for the opinions in the first wrongful death suit connected to private marsd exploration
decimation: well, then perhaps the right managers can allocate resources to build the advanced enough robots
bocobit: i'd do it if I was the first to walk
decimation: except, it isn't profitable
decimation: so that's dumb
bocobit: what else is there in life?
mircea_popescu: maybe it can be financed through a forum ipo
mircea_popescu: in which case the profit is not the point.
truffles: <bocobit> what else is there in life?>>> gambling
bocobit: I hear SD is even better on the martian surface
truffles: so they cant test it out with chimps 1st least it becomes planet of the apes ..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00096087 = 6.7261 BTC [-] {2}
bocobit: MP, I read that article you posted "Why I don't hire brilliant men"
truffles: sounds like something a lesser man writes :D
mircea_popescu: didja like it ?
bocobit: ya man I've been thinking about it the last week
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00313334 = 0.1567 BTC [+] {6}
bocobit: there are a lot of parallels with all the new start ups in bitcoin world
mircea_popescu: it's usually given as a textbook example of anti-intelectualism in the us.
ozbot: From the Stacks: Why I Never Hire Brilliant Men | TaoYue.com
mircea_popescu: anyway, the day is young. see you later all.
Duffer1: later man
bocobit: The world needs dreamers just as much as workers
truffles: i think the word needs more responsible leaders
chetty: truffles, it needs some
bocobit: do any of yall read epsilon theory?
truffles: ya prob impossible with current paradigm
ozbot: Salient
bocobit: this system is ripe for abuse at the top
truffles: one need not look further than a forum or chatroom to see that power corrupts
bocobit: would you rather have pure anarchy or pure authoritarianism?
truffles: hard choice
truffles: as a rebel without a cause id go anarchy way
bocobit: same
bocobit: although there might be similar traps to the individual in both cases
truffles: deal with 'em as they arise
truffles: "the only thing necessary to create the perception of being watched and monitored and punished for bad behavior was the constant possibility of being watched and monitored and punished for bad behavior," >>> this is turrble
bocobit: I feel this pressure everytime I am in a large crowd
bocobit: social mores
truffles: i like to give myself importance by thinking some1 is "monitoring" me heh
truffles: whomever has that job must be a loser heh
bocobit: but that monitoring isn't unique to you
truffles: still special (not in a retard way)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00096483 = 1.9779 BTC [+]
bocobit: everyone feels it ( at least subconsciously ) and expect others to act accordingly
bocobit: a nail left exposed gets hammered down
truffles: not in my house
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6081 @ 0.00096712 = 5.8811 BTC [+]
truffles: u can make other uses for it
bocobit: like blaming it for why you tripped?
truffles: well if im in a crowd my 1st thoughts are "do i have any cash on hand, oh no worries"
BingoBoingo: [KS]: Perhaps befor we talk levels of scams we need to talk literacy on the mechanisms
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.05581 = 0.1116 BTC [+] {2}
truffles: scammers gonna scam though
truffles: pretty sure theyll come up with new ones
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8240 @ 0.00096681 = 7.9665 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Ghostbusters 2: You don't want us exposing themselves
BingoBoingo: truffles: The important part is recognizing that most of the scams in BTC follow classic patterns developed in fiat
BingoBoingo: If you know how fiat scams work you can protect against many BTC scams
truffles: if ure gullible dont even need scams
truffles: btc is ripe with sharks
chetty: a catalog of classic scams ..who is helped most the scammers or the scammees
BingoBoingo: truffles: I dunno if you know what "classic" implies. And I thinkj you are trying to stretch for credibility but supposing "who could"
chetty: all scams depend on one thing: greed
BingoBoingo: chetty: What about the ones that require stupid?
truffles: i thought btc crowd was a lil smarter than gen pop..
kakobrekla: not anymore
chetty: even stupid won't get roped in unless they are also greedy - the whole concept depends on 'get something for nothing' - or at least for little
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.60694998 = 1.2139 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 20 @ 0.0075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00096712 = 8.7041 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 600 @ 0.00018961 = 0.1138 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4302 @ 0.00096776 = 4.1633 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3532 @ 0.00096878 = 3.4217 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4568 @ 0.00096941 = 4.4283 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 20892 @ 0.00019853 = 4.1477 BTC [+] {20}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1133 @ 0.00017498 = 0.1983 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 800 @ 0.000202 = 0.1616 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.04944496 = 0.4944 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.035 = 0.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19115 @ 0.00096968 = 18.5354 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3052 @ 0.00097017 = 2.961 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55238 @ 0.00097209 = 53.6963 BTC [+] {5}
random_cat: Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2787 @ 0.00097769 = 2.7248 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: random_cat: Greed is good, greed is a useful angle of analysis, but but what is greed compared to Putang?
BingoBoingo: Tcl interface unloaded
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 850 @ 0.00023981 = 0.2038 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: The new bitcoin police
jurov: "to patronize and annoy"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.08299776 = 0.249 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Why the fuck is everyone named Christian such a fucking Cho-Mo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00098471 = 12.9982 BTC [+]
keonne: Please tell me thas a joke...
keonne: I had no idea you could still make geocities websites these days btcpd.com
keonne: http://btcpd.com/picture_library/20140330_183756.jpg Sweet mustache. it must help him solve bitcrimes
jurov: it's very sensitive like cat's whiskers
keonne: aww adorable. I wanna be whitelisted so I get that bitching graphic
dexX7: > geocities .... ahahhahahaha =D
keonne: seriously, it has geocities all over it
dexX7: yes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.0075 = 0.75 BTC [+]
keonne: so...anyone else reduce their position in RENT before the IPO?
keonne: I have a feeling its gonna drop, i dont know where they came up with this 0.0075 price from, their asses it seems
punkman: something like they had a USD goal, they converted to BTC, got 0.0075
jurov: keonne, the20year was here few days ago and defended it, don't remember how
jurov: everything is out there in the logs :)
ozbot: birtchex - nextgen forex
keonne: Ill check it out thanks jurov
punkman: " Offering long and short positions, limit orders, and put and call options."
dexX7: what's so nextgen about it?
ozbot: R David Matthew Gambrell | LinkedIn
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.0075 = 0.1875 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: keonne: You will be a much happier person if you just lurk for a year before "investing"
moiety: does anyone here know who owns localbitcoins? their channel is dead
BingoBoingo: I doubt the commitment of everyone here to sparkle motion, especially moiety
Apocalyptic: moiety, jeremias used to hang out on IRC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0009895 = 4.3538 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Where is your commitment to sparkle motion
moiety: BingoBoingo: sparkle motion?
BingoBoingo: Movie reference
moiety: thanks for the name Apocalyptic
BingoBoingo: Knowing the reference is key to understanding contemporary 'Murican failings
Apocalyptic: a good movie btw
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Thx
keonne: BingoBoingo: you have no idea how long ive been around ;)
jurov: that's pretty useless advice, let me paraphrase mp:
jurov: You will be much happier person if you just sit on your dick for a year before fucking.
BingoBoingo: keonne: And you have no little child of mine
moiety: i love that film... how did i not get that quote
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 500 @ 0.00020014 = 0.1001 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: moiety: Saving grace of the scottish.
moiety: keonne: you dont like boats a lot by any chance do you? perhaps wrong keonne, sorry if so
keonne: i like sail boats
keonne: and i doubt there are a lot of keonnes around
moiety: we have met then i think :)
keonne: really?
keonne: in London?
moiety: mmhmm especially if you made a big move recently
moiety: not inperson
keonne: hah!
keonne: yes
keonne: im very curious
moiety: but youre on my fb lol
keonne: intriguing
keonne: this community is too damn small
keonne: and my name too damn unique
BingoBoingo: keonne: This space is too small to imagine niggers.txt is unique
keonne: good old niggers.txt
moiety: ohgod
BingoBoingo: moiety: Plz don't chimp out. Everybody came out of Africa anyways
moiety: chimp out XD nah the ohgod was because i didnt know what happened for sooo long XD
BingoBoingo: moiety: Be moar rx-list
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00098857 = 7.6614 BTC [-] {2}
keonne: gay.pl was better anyway
moiety hopes that wasnt a ragequit
jurov: who? mjr_1 ?
jurov: oh Bingo
dexX7: * BingoBoingo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
keonne: I like how he came in and gave me unsolicitied advise
moiety: keonne: logs
moiety: i always arrive>mew>catch up teh logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1193 @ 0.00098752 = 1.1781 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1000 @ 0.00020011 = 0.2001 BTC [-] {4}
moiety: wb BB
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 11 @ 0.04899999 = 0.539 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.035 = 0.385 BTC [-]
ozbot: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 563 @ 0.0009817 = 0.5527 BTC [-]
MisterE is watching "Idiocracy 2006" in VLC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13327 @ 0.00098114 = 13.0757 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 7000 @ 0.00023999 = 1.6799 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.00098525 = 15.9118 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18951 @ 0.00098225 = 18.6146 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60669998 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.000986 = 11.0925 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 170 @ 0.00088843 = 0.151 BTC [+]
[KS]: BingoBoingo: as long as there is no "scientific" pretense.
draino: i gotta say i miss MPOE_PR's sassy nipple more than i would have thought
mircea_popescu: keonne and who might you be ?
ozbot: Russians petition for return of Alaska - Telegraph
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 24 @ 0.08299776 = 1.9919 BTC [-] {2}
keonne: hi mircea_popescu
keonne: i am keonne
keonne: that is my name
mircea_popescu: abdul keonne ?
keonne: well abdul is/was my handle for years on irc
keonne: usually on gnaa or somewhere else nefarious
keonne: but i tweeted you yesterday about btc shop
keonne: and i did mention i would lurk in here now
keonne: so just making good on my twitter promises i suppose
mircea_popescu: so welcome.
keonne: thank you
bounce: re earlier topic, I rather think plenty poor management gets to hang on and management in general is overvalued because we don't know how to properly value management, or even properly evaluate management outcomes, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: bounce one aspect of it's pesky tendency not to lend itself to the scientific method well
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.08299776 = 0.166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.03501 = 0.105 BTC [-]
bounce: not directly, no. there's ways, though.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 29 @ 0.035 = 1.015 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.04875 = 0.195 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: just like the deceitful whore doesn't lend herself to marriage,
mircea_popescu: but "there are ways".
bounce: actually, more like the other way around: management fundamentally deals with people so scientific method has a hard time with it, but moreover too many in management don't even try
mircea_popescu: well that's also true.
mircea_popescu: anyway, brb cause im writing an article then we can beat it more.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.034622 = 0.5193 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SMG] 3030 @ 0.00007431 = 0.2252 BTC [-] {3}
peterl: is Havelock SMG convertible to actual shares of S.MG?
peterl: aha, to answer my own question, yes, but it costs 1 btc per transfer ... I don't think there is enough volume to make arbitrage worthwhile
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2000 @ 0.00024992 = 0.4998 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1811 @ 0.00023929 = 0.4334 BTC [-] {3}
Apocalyptic: truffles, btw you're on the permaban list of -otc since August 24th, what did you do ?
truffles: called a mod a pussy or something
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2250 @ 0.00015303 = 0.3443 BTC [-] {2}
truffles: he was crying about how he has to be on the phone forever etc
truffles: i was like maybe u should really commit to bitcoin
truffles: he got defensive
truffles: i forget the rest
Apocalyptic: looks like it was coingenuity
truffles: that douche
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 550 @ 0.00025906 = 0.1425 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 45 @ 0.00579456 = 0.2608 BTC [+] {4}
ozbot: Let’s try and understand this “no such thing as bad publicity” thing. pe Trilema - Un blog de
keonne: superfluous 'a' in the second paragraph after 'inept'
truffles: pretty sure there's more n migtve missed :D
keonne: yeah it doesnt bother me, just figured extra proofreaders wouldnt hurt :)
truffles: its prob a mindfield of them though
truffles: so if u start with that 1 heh
keonne: lol
mircea_popescu: keonne actually before very :D
mircea_popescu: fixt ty.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.04946739 = 0.1979 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.034601 = 0.1038 BTC [+]
keonne: ok work finished - au revoir!
mircea_popescu: now i can finally get to the best part of my day,
mircea_popescu: reading teh logs here.
truffles: rly?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4733 @ 0.00098698 = 4.6714 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: truffles dun worry, nobody's monitoring you.
truffles: im special !
mircea_popescu: everclear what's that ?
everclear: Mentality of your critics
mircea_popescu: it's a bizarre collection, that forum.
truffles: oh i didnt know extradition was an option hmm
mircea_popescu: truffles it's good you have the internet, because you can thus acquire even more parts you don't understand to build even larger the pile of dysfunctional junk that is your brain.
truffles: internet, i know its the best thing ever
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves thestringpuller http://ghettohikes.tumblr.com/
truffles: "This man is clearly a bit unhinged. He has no sense of objective reality" hehe
mircea_popescu: who, putin ?
truffles: no silly u
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1876 @ 0.00098698 = 1.8516 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but the leaders of the sheeple bleating this nonsense on the forum said the same thing about the man that spanked them.
mircea_popescu: i guess they in the end deserve each other.
chetty: is that forum page a guy talking to himself? sure sounds like it
mircea_popescu: when forumanon says of mp what obama&co say of putin, we know we're living in the best of possible worlds.
mircea_popescu: chetty the irony here is that whether he is actually physically distinct from the next derp or not makes little difference. stupidity is quite fungible.
chetty: ah - hahahaha
mircea_popescu: jurov lol seriously, random guy out of nowhere "has made teh policez" ? how very meek of him :D
mircea_popescu: punkman are you like on a special list or something ? where do you find all this stuff ?
truffles: the US "gave" the internet to the world so will it be as easy to seize domains?
chetty: I want to know why someone would want to 'win points with us regulators', but I won't dirty my hands actually posting on that
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell moiety localbitcoins had some technology-enthusiastic policemen pull some "sting operations", which were kinda lulzy in their braindead stupidity but probably spelled out actual financial and emotional pain for the unfortunate parties to get involved in the bureaucracy's quest to justify its continued existence. i imagine it's gone as a result.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
truffles: gotta let them wet their beaks
punkman: mircea_popescu: i have these episodes every couple of days, I see URLs in my epileptic visions
mircea_popescu: punkman you're the most gifted person i know.
punkman: also I think this is topace, http://weirdly.net/resume.php amirite topace?
mircea_popescu: "The CEO of GreenBank has over 40 years experience investing in small caps"
ozbot: Zara Resources Inc. ( C.ZRI ) stock message board and forum - Bullboard Discussion - Stockhouse C
mircea_popescu: kinda lulzy.
punkman: yeah mining that gold
mircea_popescu: QUOTE: "This is why the term "fictitious profits", definitely applies.
ozbot: Zara Resources Inc. ( C.ZRI ) stock message board and forum - Bullboard Discussion - Stockhouse C
punkman: they got like 5 of those
mircea_popescu: hard to call, really, because the minerals exploration business (as discussed previously here) is kinda builty to work like this and there do exist occasional legitimate corps that get the brush treatment anyway
mircea_popescu: still... i wouldn't trust the guy just on the grounds he exists.
truffles: punkman but where'd he go to skool!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13318 @ 0.00098703 = 13.1453 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: punkman incidentally, why not make yourself a career out of this ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you've the time, would be interesting to hear more re: the fate of the engineers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shoot ?
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: i'm just here waiting for people to type, not busy in any sense not able to go anywhere, life of dreamz.
punkman: mircea_popescu: I do some paid work collecting data, research, etc
truffles: confined to the home already mp
mircea_popescu: punkman srsly, make a blog, write up one of these a day, each day, for a year.
mircea_popescu: if by that year you're not fucking thankful you started, you may negrate me in all fairness.
truffles: this is one pleasing to the eye resume for sure
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok. considering the what/how debate as accepted foundation : at any time there's a number of turkeys and a number of engineers.
mircea_popescu: increasing the engineer's pay does not increase the number of turkeys.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00098756 = 11.0113 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: it does however stress the distribution of turkeys, if nothing else then because new price tags keep having to be printed.
mircea_popescu: tis all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they way i understood it, the sv folks aren't actually paying engineers in particular. they're paying the real estate industry to (inefficiently) house them.
mircea_popescu: a valid approach, yes.
asciilifeform: because they, for some odd reason, demand a ridiculous geographic concentration of engineers
mircea_popescu: efficiency is a COO not a CFO job. in other words, you don't reduce it financially
mircea_popescu: (you may at most increase it, but only somewhat)
asciilifeform: they might perhaps be better off 'vertically integrating' the housing bit
mircea_popescu: s/efficiency/inefficiency
mircea_popescu: well that's where they're headed.
asciilifeform: like chinese dormitories.
mircea_popescu: yoiu have to consider the history : only very recently have tech companies become "Respectable"
asciilifeform: the most frustrating part is the folly of the engineers, who salivate after the '$300k sv job'
mircea_popescu: buffett still does not invest in them because, politely, "he doesn't understand them", but factually "not in his wot"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why ? the 16 yo should salivate after the cock.
asciilifeform: as if the money is actually their own, and not simply put in their hands for a few minutes to salivate over.
mircea_popescu: what else in this world is there for her to salivate for ?
mircea_popescu: so anyway : only recently has tech become respectable, and as such it couldn't historically afford the huge bezzle-usd load of owning real estate outright.
mircea_popescu: it's getting there, and soon sv will be in fact chinese dormitory style.
asciilifeform: much of what the chumpers 'buying' houses in usa are paying for could be had for considerably smaller cost - e.g. physical security, caste isolation, etc.
asciilifeform: if it were vertically integrated
asciilifeform: as in 19th c. 'company town'
mircea_popescu: sure. to take things from yet another angle : you're familiar with greenspun's analysis of why women don't go into science.
asciilifeform: certainly. (i did link it here once)
mircea_popescu: the same shall soon apply to tech, we're witnessing a "professorisation" and "tenurisation" of tech.
chetty: asciilifeform, but but we must have diversity
mircea_popescu: soon it's going to cost you money to be "working for google"
mircea_popescu: for the same reason most girls with great fuck videos PAY to participate.
mircea_popescu: they can then use those on the stripper and prostitution circuits as extras "cause we're pornstars"
mircea_popescu: much in the manner hearn is using his "i was at google" thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a kind of phase transition ahead, when it begins to cost more to 'work for google' than... it pays
asciilifeform: where is the fool supposed to unearth the difference
mircea_popescu: hopefully he has rich parents.
mircea_popescu: but if not, there's always credit.
mircea_popescu: you remember my story with the jewish money lender taking a painting and other payment in kind for debt ?
mircea_popescu: so : the bezzle fundamentally is born out of and exists for the following reason :
mircea_popescu: while your ability to pay is finite, you being finite, your ability to underwrite credit is not finite.
mircea_popescu: the difference between these two is, obviously... your painting.
mircea_popescu: there's a very good fundamental reason to extend credit you know will never be repaid.
mircea_popescu: i did it myself, and quite publicly at that. remember the patrick harnett case ?
asciilifeform: this is, arguably, the oldest form of credit?
mircea_popescu: his asshole was the point going in.
asciilifeform: mr. dirt digger's horse dies. his neighbour lends him horse. 'now pay 1/4 of your crop, forever'
BrockH: MY HORSE!?!
mircea_popescu: now, when people such as me say the us agencies will have to learn to play ball or not exist,
mircea_popescu: people like me refer to a very specific thing.
asciilifeform: of course, there's a flip side to playing this game. eventually mr. dirt invents dekulakization.
mircea_popescu: the us has borrowed past what it can repay.
mircea_popescu: let me explain something about this dekulakization concept.
mircea_popescu: you familiar with buffett pretending taxes "at the top" aren't high enough, and with gates donating his fortune to "good causes" and so on ?
asciilifeform: technical term, i believe, is 'conspicuous benevolence'
mircea_popescu: not at all.
mircea_popescu: buffett structures the hell out of his deals to avoid taxation.
asciilifeform: game theoretically 'dishonest signal'
mircea_popescu: however, there exists a center of people who can't afford good tax shelters, and who could, if left undisturbed, come to one day challenge him.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 500 @ 0.00025793 = 0.129 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: see, the fact that i made the fu berkshire bet and the fact i pay about 2.85% a year on average are related.
mircea_popescu: i can accumulate. the average middle class guy in the chumpatron, can not.
mircea_popescu: buffett merely aims to keep it this way : high taxes means jack shit to him
mircea_popescu: other than "stansislav won't be the next buffett"
mircea_popescu: that he likes.
mircea_popescu: now, dekulakization is EXACTLY the same.
mircea_popescu: it doth not hurt the rich
mircea_popescu: it hurts the average who could in principle one day hurt the rich.
mircea_popescu: it's a middle pruning control strategy, the exact equiv of raising taxes "for social good"
mircea_popescu: sure, a tree with no middle one day collapses. but until such a day...
asciilifeform: can't see how anyone who ever so much as set foot in the u.s. could disagree here.
mircea_popescu: so that'd be that.
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-04-2014#604120 << dexX7 but i never got the same address from brainwallet as was actually used
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
dexX7: hm let me test it
mircea_popescu: and this actually comes to the core of the ideological opposition here. i simply do not like this "no middle" burned ground crap.
mircea_popescu: first off who the fuck is threatened by smart young people ?! and second off... jesus fuck i've seen their lives and their dens, they're boring and dismal.
mircea_popescu: i dunno who the fuck could bear to live there, that way.
dexX7: jurov: works actually
asciilifeform: speaking of dekulakization: has anyone considered the 'partizans' hypothesis re: the dead JPM folks?
bounce: "hold on to what you got"-reflex?
bounce: it takes real guts to just let be in such a situation
dexX7: jurov: in case you are looking for a general "get addr from msg+sig" you may take a look at: https://github.com/dexX7/mastercoin-faucet/blob/master/inc/verifymessage.php#L58
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.08299776 = 0.415 BTC [-]
jurov: ok if it works, ima find/make py equivalent
topace: punkman: no, you are not right. its widely known what my name is
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 15 @ 0.02849881 = 0.4275 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: anyway, it can be vastly improved, not just add blocktime but also start/end delimiter so copypaste failures can be spotted immediately
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 850 @ 0.00025996 = 0.221 BTC [+] {2}
dexX7: true. and especially with brainwallet.org there were significant problems
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.048 = 0.144 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Contact and Credentials | Bingo Blog
mircea_popescu: a final curlique on the dekulakization topic. asciilifeform you familiar with how socrates died ?
jurov: BingoBoingo signed messages should be protected as much as possible from mucking by blogging software
mircea_popescu: jurov> anyway, it can be vastly improved, not just add blocktime but also start/end delimiter so copypaste failures can be spotted immediately <<< this, very much so.
jurov: if it can't do <verbatim> just add there .txt to download
dexX7: yea, i'm not sure what the issue was, but brainwallet somehow had a problem with a special character in the message
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6774 @ 0.00098775 = 6.691 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3776 @ 0.00099003 = 3.7384 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: anything non-ascii is easily a problem. which is endless fun since various utf-8-ised s/w likes to insert fancy replacements for basic things like apostrophes that then get mangled in interesting ways in transit
bounce: s/since/even in english &/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 450 @ 0.00026 = 0.117 BTC [+]
dexX7: yea true. but you need to differentiate between the underlying "signing of some binary data" and an application on top which is used by humans. the later one would benefit from ascii only + some delimiter etc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 30 @ 0.0075 = 0.225 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0349 = 0.1047 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: socrates - sure
asciilifeform: who isn't
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.20765824 BTC to 5`373 shares, 41088 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.054 = 0.162 BTC [-]
robwhiz22: Good afternoon.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00099036 = 13.1718 BTC [+] {3}
keonne: If this weren’t the case you’d have probably seen good numbers of fourteen year old pasty ass boys from Ohio and Connecticut running away from home to “become Cowboys!!!” only to end up the cum rag of some hobo or other.
keonne: i think i love you mircea_popescu mircea_popescu
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 47 @ 0.0056 = 0.2632 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 300 @ 0.00550218 = 1.6507 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.054 = 0.54 BTC [-]
bounce: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/04/chinas_bitcoin_exchanges_begin_pulling_down_the_shutters/ -- ``The FXBTC exchange has posted a notice saying that it received the instruction by telephone [...]'' just call up, say you're PBOC, and tell'em to shed customers. done!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do tell.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as described in 'dialogues' ?
asciilifeform: am i missing something?
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, as you know the story, tell it to me.
mircea_popescu: keonne :p
asciilifeform: 'corrupting the youth', hemlock/exile, hemlock, 'give a chicken for asclepius for me', 'drink this & walk around a bit', croaks
mircea_popescu: you don't like telling stories do you ?
asciilifeform: damn i'm no good at this 'crib sheet' business
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, but an alternative retelling would be something like this :
mircea_popescu: socrates spent his life empowering the youth with the tools of the mind. once htey came of age that youth turned around and took over the city, ie, the world.
mircea_popescu: then they proceeded to implement their very own, context-adequate version of taxation/dekulakization : they ordered the citizenry to commit murders
mircea_popescu: so that nobody could safely extricate himself from their lot.
mircea_popescu: the outrage was eventually their undoing, they were banished, socrates was identified as the guilty party, one removed.
mircea_popescu: dekulakization is nothing novel.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.03410999 = 0.3411 BTC [-] {3}
keonne: Your credits for paid content isn't counting down properly
mircea_popescu: in this perspective, socrates is rightfully indifferent to any hemlock.
mircea_popescu: keonne that's a very bad bug report.
keonne: but I purchased my 10000 credits anyway
keonne: yes it was, mostly because i wasnt aiming to file a bug, rather, alert you that you should fix your shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10256 @ 0.00098614 = 10.1139 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: in other news, your wife is cheating on you.
keonne: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.03360003 = 0.504 BTC [-] {3}
keonne: I appreciated that feedback though - as it is clear you arent trying to get as much out of me as you can to make your product better
keonne: i was pretty successful slinging dope anyway
mircea_popescu: lol no but seriously, what am i fixing and how's it broken.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4661 @ 0.00098415 = 4.5871 BTC [-]
keonne: okay - I've read more than 5 articles today, however the counter says I have four articles remaining. Now about my browser config, cookies are set to destruct after tab close and javascript doesn't run unless I authorize it
mircea_popescu: you get 5 free each week, and 4 extras permanently.
robwhiz22: Hello, Mirceau.
robwhiz22: You wrote me: "The best approach would be to join #bitcoin-assets on Freenode. Both me
robwhiz22: and the chief engineer idle there."
keonne: Then my reading comprehension sucks
keonne: is what we learned
mircea_popescu: there's no javascript involved in any sense.
robwhiz22: May I write to you on private message?
mircea_popescu: robwhiz22 please don't.
keonne: Im assuming ill have to whitelist trilema to not self destruct cookies to keep my credit session alive without having to log in every time
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want either to rob yourself of the collective wisdom of this space, nor to rob the history of same of your valuable contributions
mircea_popescu: keonne that's entirely up to you :)
keonne: voila - thanks for quick processing
keonne: come on robwhiz22 i'm waiting in anticipation here
mircea_popescu: every customer either raped or satisfied within one hour.
keonne: hah
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, I submitted a specific, private, proposal to you last week.
robwhiz22: mircea_popescu, and would appreciate a response to it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00098415 = 8.2177 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: in other news, the commanding officer of the romanian special forum-extraditions-and-other-lulz unit invited me to his daughter's bar mitzvah unexpectedly.
mircea_popescu: so catch y'all later
keonne: bat
keonne: bar for boys
keonne: have fun
keonne: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0331 = 0.1655 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2611 @ 0.00023732 = 0.6196 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10863 @ 0.00098186 = 10.6659 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.049 = 0.196 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.03251428 = 0.2276 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1800 @ 0.00016491 = 0.2968 BTC [+] {5}
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 450 @ 0.00088843 = 0.3998 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.00088843 = 0.2221 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5287 @ 0.00097926 = 5.1773 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.05 = 0.4 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 700 @ 0.0002792 = 0.1954 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.03185 = 0.3185 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.0310625 = 0.2485 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0305 = 0.122 BTC [-]
jurov: i'd say mp is trollin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.032 = 0.16 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00098415 = 12.1543 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.051 = 0.102 BTC [+]
benkay: reputation/publicity/money
benkay: oen cannot create money
benkay: one can only build a reputation over time
assbot: Just-Dice stat: 15357 BTC profit, 32.0k BTC invested, 986.73 mio bets, 5.14 mio BTC wagered
assbot: List of commands:
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}
assbot: !last <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}
assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)
assbot: !rules <nick/chan> (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}
assbot: !exchanges <nick/chan> (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}
assbot: !jd (desc: returns relevant stats from https://just-dice.com)
assbot: !bash <lines> (desc: bashes last <lines> lines to bash) {short: !b}
assbot: !quote <lines> (desc: quotes last <lines> lines and returns dpaste url) {short: !q}
thestringpuller: is benkay still here?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 37 @ 0.02755619 = 1.0196 BTC [-] {9}
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 457.74, Best ask: 460.46, Bid-ask spread: 2.72000, Last trade: 460.57, 24 hour volume: 6286.91152494, 24 hour low: 450.2, 24 hour high: 465.0, 24 hour vwap: 457.170183167
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.08299776 = 0.166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.049032 = 0.2452 BTC [-] {4}
thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00096086 / 0.00097429 / 0.0009904 (493769 shares, 481.08 BTC), 7D: 0.00093355 / 0.00095284 / 0.0009904 (6446783 shares, 6,142.79 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00089172 / 0.0009904 (28076230 shares, 25,036.18 BTC)
thestringpuller: !ticker m s.bbet
assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00045 / 0.00049074 / 0.00059 (12152 shares, 5.96 BTC)
thestringpuller: ;;calc 4248 * 0.00056000
gribble: 2.37888
thestringpuller: ;;calc 0.2 * 0.00056000
gribble: 0.000112
thestringpuller: ;;calc 0.2 / 0.00056000
gribble: 357.142857143
thestringpuller: ;;calc 0.5 / 0.00056000
gribble: 892.857142857
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1000 @ 0.00028681 = 0.2868 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;calc 800 * 0.00000146
gribble: 0.001168
thestringpuller: ;;calc 2000 * 0.00000146
gribble: 0.00292
thestringpuller: ;;calc 5000 * 0.00000146
gribble: 0.0073
thestringpuller: ;;calc 6000 * 0.00000146
gribble: 0.00876
thestringpuller: ;;calc 10000 * 0.00000146
gribble: 0.0146
thestringpuller: ;;calc 20000 * 0.00000146
gribble: 0.0292
thestringpuller: ;;calc 172 / 1000000000
gribble: 1.72e-07
thestringpuller: ;;calc 0.000000172
gribble: 1.72e-07
thestringpuller: ;;calc 900 / 1000000000
gribble: 9e-07
thestringpuller: ;;calc 900 / 1000000000
gribble: 9e-07
thestringpuller: ;;calc 0.00000090
gribble: 9e-07
thestringpuller: ;;calc 68 / 1000000000
gribble: 6.8e-08
thestringpuller: ;;calc 0.00000034 * 50
gribble: 1.7e-05
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 42 @ 0.02649356 = 1.1127 BTC [-] {15}
thestringpuller: i totally thought this was pm with bot since it's so dead @_@ my bad ya'll
benkay: hey thestringpuller
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04800003 = 0.144 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 23 @ 0.02705216 = 0.6222 BTC [+] {4}
thestringpuller: hey benkay
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 30 @ 0.02583002 = 0.7749 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: yo yo yo
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 500 @ 0.00028681 = 0.1434 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ahh that wasnt so bad.
mircea_popescu: keonne that was part of the joke see.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.03121428 = 0.2185 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00097916 = 4.5041 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 342 @ 0.00088843 = 0.3038 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 615 @ 0.00016572 = 0.1019 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04720003 = 0.1416 BTC [-]
assbot: Just-Dice stat: 15362 BTC profit, 32.0k BTC invested, 987.08 mio bets, 5.14 mio BTC wagered
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.03126 = 0.1876 BTC [+]
chairman_meow: what do you think of just-dice?
thestringpuller: better than satoshi dice lol
mircea_popescu: doog's okay, site's backed by a good idea, tracking under ev for a while and maybe slacking a little in volume lately.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 3000 @ 0.00029137 = 0.8741 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 182 @ 0.00088844 = 0.1617 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.04638333 = 0.2783 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1761 @ 0.00016573 = 0.2919 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03131666 = 0.3758 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: mircea_popescu: dekulakization is nothing novel. << moldbug points out that FDR had the same motivations http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ca/2010/03/true-election-practical-option-for-real.html
decimation: "Nor was FDR, as commonly asserted, a "traitor to his class" - anything but it. FDR's beliefs, or at least his speeches (in one so seldom praised for candor, the inference of any actual conviction is at best an exercise of imagination) can indeed be studied as almost perfect reflections of the intellectual fashions of America's apex upper class, the socialite-socialist aristocracy. These fashions have changed somewhat since 1933, but not that
decimation: much."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 350 @ 0.0002998 = 0.1049 BTC [+]
decimation: one can sympathize with the impulse of the rich and powerful to keep the middle down, if only so that they are the only yacht-owners in the harbor
bounce: "'merkin crusty upper crust is crusty", or what?
bounce: shades of pterry's small gods. get unlimited power, spend it on garden gnomes.
mircea_popescu: i srsly dun see it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16418 @ 0.00097883 = 16.0704 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.05450001 = 0.4905 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1364 @ 0.0002998 = 0.4089 BTC [+]
bounce: oh probably differen title, actualy. mort, I think.
bounce: it's a matter of attitude. why even bother spend any effort, money, whatever, on keeping the (not that uncultured part of the) plebs down? so many other things you could do with your wealth and power. what do you value? well, those values apparently aren't that highfalutin', after all.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00098057 = 8.3839 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: to some it's not merely necessary to win, but for others to lose. turn a non-zero-sum game into a zero-sum game, why don't you.
mircea_popescu: bounce that's only half of it. suppose you have a daughter. who's she to marry ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0545 = 0.2725 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: suppose your wife cheats. who's she gonna cheat with ?
mircea_popescu: suppose you wanna go fucking watch a ball game or actually, strike that
thestringpuller: jurov: deposits
mircea_popescu: suppose you'd rather do something else with your free time than having to write fucking books because everyone else is too retarded to write the books on their own and they just flock to the fucking gamew instead
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.01242001 = 0.1242 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1086 @ 0.000325 = 0.353 BTC [+] {3}
bounce: gamification ftw
mircea_popescu: i can't even begin to imagine anyone'd actually want to be stuck having to do everything by hand because well nobody else does because nobody else can because they fucked it all up.
mircea_popescu: sounds fucking aeschil-esque, this shit.
thestringpuller: the people who can't write books shouldn't write books...
punkman: aeschylesque?
mircea_popescu: anyway, whenbever that idiocy breaks down you get a renaissance, it's uncanny.
bounce: what? you're rich and powerful. you could hire a competent writer, or ten, and only keep the best one or two books
mircea_popescu: people' fucking irrational fear of people being ironically the most notable obstacle for those same people.
mircea_popescu: bounce why should i hire them at all. why aren't they hiring me.
bounce: whatever you think important, eh.
mircea_popescu: no but did da pope hire da vinci or did da vinci hire the pope
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 12 @ 0.02010009 = 0.2412 BTC [-]
decimation: da vinci was in the pope's wot
mircea_popescu: partly because the pope was quite inefficient at either taxing or dekulakizing him out of existence.
mircea_popescu: i really should say "regulate" instead of "taxing" but anyway.
mircea_popescu: so suppose he were much more efficient at it. he had more money therefore. and now he could hire... condolezza rice.
mircea_popescu: to tell him about how "nobody could have drawn a rocket on the wall it just couldn't have been done"
mircea_popescu: derpyherp and tyvm.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 15 @ 0.02010008 = 0.3015 BTC [-] {2}
bounce: what ties leo x to necessarily have an adversarial motivation towards da vinci?
bounce: though I don't think da vinci properly classifies as upper middle class in context
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2315 @ 0.00098415 = 2.2783 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 33 @ 0.02707575 = 0.8935 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7156 @ 0.00098695 = 7.0626 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 19 @ 0.0259122 = 0.4923 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.0522985 = 0.7845 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.00088844 = 0.2221 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 15000 @ 0.00030066 = 4.5099 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 2000 @ 0.00039832 = 0.7966 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 50 @ 0.01246506 = 0.6233 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3913 @ 0.00016577 = 0.6487 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 12 @ 0.02010009 = 0.2412 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6574 @ 0.0001541 = 1.0131 BTC [-] {12}
davout: benkay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVKb3DwPFA8 his faces are almost as good as the music
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3426 @ 0.00014351 = 0.4917 BTC [-] {5}
benkay: nice, ty
benkay: great video work too
davout: lol yea, some wtf angles :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 12 @ 0.02010009 = 0.2412 BTC [+]
davout: benkay: tokd you
davout: s/tokd/told/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00098731 = 11.3541 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: thestringpuller aye
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00037966 = 0.1898 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00037801 = 0.189 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 3455 @ 0.00034989 = 1.2089 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00098562 = 16.5091 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1000 @ 0.000378 = 0.378 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1623 @ 0.00014452 = 0.2346 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.05238981 = 0.7858 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0510899 = 0.5109 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1545 @ 0.00039586 = 0.6116 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 12 @ 0.02011006 = 0.2413 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 3500 @ 0.00044924 = 1.5723 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00098385 = 8.0676 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1530 @ 0.00044999 = 0.6885 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 382 @ 0.00033004 = 0.1261 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2175 @ 0.00040013 = 0.8703 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 350 @ 0.00038884 = 0.1361 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.00098853 = 10.5278 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 425 @ 0.00044952 = 0.191 BTC [+] {3}
chatquack yawns
davout: chatquack: this'll wake you up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fX4XGoVgX4
chatquack: ooo I like it already
chatquack: Very ugly women though.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 317 @ 0.00040002 = 0.1268 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 400 @ 0.00040001 = 0.16 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 650 @ 0.00040001 = 0.26 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 5001 @ 0.0004 = 2.0004 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 700 @ 0.0004 = 0.28 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00098853 = 6.1783 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6545 @ 0.00099008 = 6.4801 BTC [+]
Foshizz: Can someone please explain why btc is dropping so much?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1597 @ 0.00014501 = 0.2316 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.00088844 = 0.4442 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1551 @ 0.00043911 = 0.6811 BTC [+] {7}
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 457.63, vol: 5296.08506762 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 463.23, vol: 7809.90042 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 458.9899, vol: 3441.52850173 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 465.25, vol: 25.69458947 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 458.85, vol: 2396.79880000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 461.81827, vol: 5.1169521 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 461.79725496, vol: 65.65648564 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 460.352078641
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43971 @ 0.00099083 = 43.5678 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 373 @ 0.00037501 = 0.1399 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03363332 = 0.4036 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.04999999 = 0.3 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1050 @ 0.00038737 = 0.4067 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.03399999 = 0.17 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.04999999 = 0.25 BTC [-]
KRS-1: .bait
B007: .bait
B007: .bait
B007: .bait
B007: .bait
B007: .bait
B007: how's it going KRS-1
kakobrekla: ill tell you how. spammy.
B007: just a side of spam
B007: my baits were hotter
B007: er
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.08299776 = 0.166 BTC [-]
MisterE: I'm downloading GoT right NOW!!!
B007: ok
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.03406666 = 0.2044 BTC [+] {4}
cazalla: MisterE: ty, forgot about that
cazalla: wife is off to mums group too so perfect timing
MisterE: nice!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00099262 = 20.6465 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36395 @ 0.0009953 = 36.2239 BTC [+] {4}
Mats_cd03: tonight's game of thrones spoiler: everybody dies
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.05580798 = 0.1116 BTC [-]
Mats_cd03: (not really, don't cry)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 230 @ 0.00209747 = 0.4824 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.031589 = 0.2527 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00099878 = 31.4616 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 45 @ 0.00310647 = 0.1398 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 861 @ 0.00087997 = 0.7577 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.05581 = 0.7255 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 18 @ 0.08299776 = 1.494 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 15 @ 0.0075 = 0.1125 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00100106 = 18.0691 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.05321432 = 0.3725 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05098995 = 0.153 BTC [+] {3}
benkay: mpoe above 0.001
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10093 @ 0.00100141 = 10.1072 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0513 = 0.1026 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22495 @ 0.00100202 = 22.5404 BTC [+]
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