Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-02-18 | 2014-02-20 → ↓
mircea_popescu: it would have been enough, yes.
decimation: the Romans managed to trade with China too
mircea_popescu: may i remind you that at all points of human history the chinese hel;d the upper hand.
mircea_popescu: chinese merchants shopwing up in europe would have disrupted the hansa
BingoBoingo: When aircraft carriers are a tenth of a BTC, I might pick one up and start an ocean voyaging farm
mircea_popescu: and their ships could have easily arbitered the 100 years' war
mircea_popescu: and in general, we could have been a subcategory of their culture much like they ended up a subcategory of ours.
decimation: but it was the Euros dreaming of sailing to China, not the other way
mircea_popescu: well euros can dream.
asciilifeform: easily. but they were a bit too 'cold'.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2163 @ 0.00021259 = 0.4598 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ;;google animaniacs ghost of magellan
gribble: Animaniacs - Ballad of Magellan - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM-igYjn6E4>; Animaniacs - The Ballad of Magellan - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg6pXhZxbOI>; Poem: Ballad of Magellan - HolyJoe.Org: <http://holyjoe.org/poetry/rugg.htm>
mircea_popescu: "you'll find the east indies, you just don't know where".
mircea_popescu: some people put up better with this bs than others.
decimation: I wonder if there is the same itch in China to try to gain alludial rights, like the English moving to New England
chetty: comfortable people stay home, the miserable go adventuring
mircea_popescu: i doubt they have the concept of allodial
decimation: yeah, the emperor or whoever has the mandate of heaven which is universal, why bother escape?
mircea_popescu: because fuck you, that's why.
mircea_popescu: i wonder how this even translates to chinese.
BingoBoingo: If only friedcat was in -assets
decimation: heh. I doubled my money with btct and asicminer, but then I heeded the warnings of mpoe-pr and bailed
mircea_popescu: and so you got to keep it ?
decimation: for the most part, yes
mircea_popescu: (ie, good for you).
BingoBoingo: I think I'm going to try sealwithclubs, been about 9 months since I've been there. Maybe I can make a profit or two.
decimation: unfortunately I lost a much bigger stash a few years ago when my hard drive died
decimation: taught me a lesson I will never forget
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imaginary physical, dead tree book or cardboard box that the product somehow “is”..These are required supposedly because “it’s professional” ..it helps the bullocks imaginary perceptions << the gold coins generated by the script all crapcoin artists seem to use. or the cardboard '90s software box drawn (identically!?) by all peddlers of winblows turdware...
BingoBoingo: decimation: That seems to be a common lesson.
mircea_popescu: it's a fundamental function of language, this symbolism.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: remember 'the camel has two humps' piece?
asciilifeform: re: the abstraction-blind.
asciilifeform: they demand these curious idols.
mircea_popescu: they're "professional" which really is just a shoddy translation of "civilised", ie, part of the polity
mircea_popescu: they display this by donning the polity's fashions
asciilifeform: i think these folks literally have to see a gold coin, albeit a cartoon gold coin
mircea_popescu: it is not nearly as silly as it seems. there's a fundamental tension at work.
asciilifeform: or they can't imagine concept of 'coin'
decimation: yeah electronics have to come in a box with irrelevant art
mircea_popescu: i have a set of three articles in romanian laying the foundation for understanding this and many other bullshits.
BingoBoingo: Oh Seals now says they require 2 confirmations to credit deposits while only actually requiring one.
decimation: you see this phenomenon with the Old Republican goldbugs who try to understand bitcoin
ozbot: Peri metaphyseos pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ozbot: Despre esente pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ozbot: Cele doua atot-esente pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
decimation: "we need bitcoin backed with gold" etc
mircea_popescu: possibly the most imporant articles i ever published but the shit's fucking abstruse.
asciilifeform: folks with fully-decked-out brains, who can reason in abstractions, can't really picture what it's like not to
asciilifeform: except perhaps with great effort, and if you remember early childhood exceptionally well.
mircea_popescu: but you are wrong to think that the language-servants are not proceeding abstractly.
mircea_popescu: they are proceeding on a radically different sort of abstraction than the number-servants
asciilifeform: seems to me like they are actually envisioning that cartoon coin, except somehow 'made of bit'
mircea_popescu: this, you will agree, is abstraction.
asciilifeform: witness herr dimon, believing that 'surely this cartoon coin can be copied just like mp3'
mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure that's his problem there.
mircea_popescu: i don't know the guy well enough to discern da fuck he's thinking under n layers of public communication bs
asciilifeform: leaving aside the question of whether a particular mouthpiece of the headless dictatorship believes this, it is clearly intended for the consumption of folks who do (or could, with the right prod)
mircea_popescu: dimon is actually smart.
mircea_popescu: there are, you know, even in soviet russia smart people.
asciilifeform: i doubt this is a surprise to anyone
asciilifeform: but, seeing only what can be seen in the infamous quote, it was a good show.
mircea_popescu: to me it is a perpetual surprise tbh.
mircea_popescu: like... suppose there's a club of shitbathers, who seek out filthy stables and other animal warehouses to bathe in the crap
asciilifeform: 'even' in the russian prison there are smart folks. some, perhaps not quite smart enough to spring loose, some that stay out of habit, some that have simply not located a sufficiently fat herd of bullocks...
mircea_popescu: then you discover some of those people actually heard of merlot, and even can distinguish it from pinot.
mircea_popescu: shocking.
decimation: bitcoin teaches that the valuable part of the gold coin isn't the physical coin but merely the information it conveys
asciilifeform: was this really a shock to anyone?
mircea_popescu: decimation are we sure this is actually true ?
mircea_popescu: it could just as well show that the pedestrian definition of "physical" isn't really as important as we thought.
mircea_popescu: what is more "physically yours" than something nobody can take from you ?
mircea_popescu: the laws of physics are after all maffs, all of them.
decimation: in the final analysis everything can be taken from you, except your soul
mircea_popescu: are you kidding ? the soul is the first to go.
mircea_popescu: just meet a nice enough pair of legs.
mircea_popescu: or eyes or w/e.
asciilifeform: if gold could be teleported at will, and likewise stowed in an inaccessible 'never-land' by the owner, one would need no electronic cryptocoin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the absence of both of these being long regarded as a bug in the implementation of physicality.
mircea_popescu: lmao, reading those old article, a romanian joke :
mircea_popescu: guy buys a new car. friend asks him what color is it ?
mircea_popescu: "well... do you know the color of the sky just as the sun is rising ?"
mircea_popescu: "just like that but green"
decimation: I was watching Top Gear last sunday and they were driving a Dacia sedan
decimation: it's amazingly cheap for what you get
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What protects the gold from malicious teleportation?
mircea_popescu: o it's back ?
ThickAsThieves: "This topic has been moved to Trashcan."
decimation: what if I teleported all the gold on Jupiter?
mircea_popescu: lol poor herbi
decimation: it seems inflationary
BingoBoingo: herbi needs so many learns
ozbot: MOVED: bitquant: Intrinsic Value and S.MPOE Market Implied EPS Growth
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: presumably it responds to the correct incantation only.
asciilifeform: (to follow the analogy)
decimation: and has limited range perhaps
mircea_popescu: decimation one of the advantages of au is that it being elemental, it's actually finite in any finite region of space.
asciilifeform: until people get eager enough to start throwing neutrons
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I mean we can add some crypto to gold teleportation, but at that point the gold may as well be superfluous
ThickAsThieves: thats quite a useful advantage
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fun fact : teleportable gold would be cheaper than gold as-is currently is.
asciilifeform: (see the 'price ceiling' discussion from a few months ago)
mircea_popescu: IN SPITE of being more useful
mircea_popescu: in the strict utilitarian view of utility.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how could it be otherwise?
asciilifeform: no need to pay for transport, etc
mircea_popescu: well wouldn't a car which also sucks your cock be naturally more expensive than one that doesn't ?
mircea_popescu: as it has more "intrinsic utility" or w/e ?
mircea_popescu: kinda shows why the entire utilitarian and monetarist stuff is nonsense with a dab of cream.
decimation: it's my understanding that sdcards are cheaper than the equivlient plain flash ships
decimation: chips
asciilifeform: this is the correct approach to explanation, btw: stuff a crowbar in the contradictions between observed reality and the extant crap
asciilifeform: and jump on it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think i may prove a metastability re neutronsa
asciilifeform: probably everyone here knows about modern 9 volt battery.
BingoBoingo: Oh the solar wind dude somehow managed to get scammier https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297334.msg5225572#msg5225572
asciilifeform: (go to your cellar, find one and saw it open.)
mircea_popescu: grossly stated, "seeing how the value of gold in a finite space would be a function of other physical processes in the same finite space,
ThickAsThieves: the one for your tongue
asciilifeform: then divide its cost by the five round cells inside.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0995 = 0.2985 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the trade value of gold may never exceed the energetic cost of gold"
decimation: it's cheaper, I presume?
asciilifeform: palpably.
asciilifeform: at least here.
decimation: this is why I find the "oh noes, the deflation" objection to bitcoin hilarious
decimation: as MP pointed out bitcoin is inflationary for a long time
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan hey, makes two of us.
BingoBoingo: Is kakobrekla Slovenia or Slovakia, I forget.
decimation: electronics have gone up in value & down in price for decades
decimation: yet people are not "waiting to buy" computers
mircea_popescu: they're all the same anyway
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: But which one.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu hi, I've been reading your blog and thought I'd check out the chat
ThickAsThieves: Kakobreklia would be a cool name for a place
mircea_popescu: "It is plain to see, from both sides of the issue, the troubles associated with PayPal payments. The problem SWMC would have with accepting PayPal payments is this: An investor purchases a Contract for X-GH/s using PayPal for the purchase. The mined BTC for the Contracts is paid to the investor over the following 6 months (for this example, the life of profitability of the investment.) Then, sometime between 6 to 12 mo
mircea_popescu: nths after the purchase of the Contract"
mircea_popescu: lol BingoBoingo, this guy understands things.
mircea_popescu: THAT is going to be his problem. definitely.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves prolly spelled kakobreklja
mircea_popescu: (they spell the ligature i as a j for some god forsaken reason)
ThickAsThieves: maybe i'll even remember that
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well he started with two other noobs. One had sense to quit hours after my blog post. The other didn't quit until a few weeks ago. The one unfortunately stuck with the forum handle has sent me so much angry correspondence.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves think marija
mircea_popescu: like Marija Lucija Stupica
BingoBoingo: So, I've bet on slovenia to beat Sweden in Olympic hockey to multiply my bet by 20
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did you see halep making #9 wta ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I did indeed
mircea_popescu: bitch wins ima be like rich and everything.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: If she matches up against WIlliam soon I'm going to make so much money and maybe kill a sportsbook.
mircea_popescu: i doubt miss williams wants to play a scrappy player from romania.
BingoBoingo: The Alma mater couldn't do it. Maybe this woman who turned tits into a rocket can.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In a tournament she may have no choice.
mircea_popescu: true true
BingoBoingo: The problem with boxing is the opposite thing. Where any party can veto any matchup. At least tennis forces these issues.
ozbot: Bitcoin startups
mircea_popescu: this shit is pretty epic.
decimation: it strikes me as unlikely that random fanbois were able to actually design and build asics
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo boxing has the problem that every fight kills you a little.
mircea_popescu: tennis is free from this. if anything, every match makes you better.
mircea_popescu: decimation notice that asic production only began in earnest once the set of fanbois crossed into the 100k heads territory.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: American handegg has the same problem as boxing. Amazing where ad revenue goes when fiat backs the ads.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's dubiously fiat's fault, seeing how the solidus and aureus backed the same principle.
decimation: I bought one of the knc miner neptunes, thinking they would deliver. In retrospect, it was a dumb idea. Now they want to deliver me rights to their "datacenter" that will mine for me
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, I think when herbi was trying to sculpt an orderbook I pointed out that in fiat world the cheapest part is the money. Maybe this week a trailer park sells for $200, maybe next for $200,000
BingoBoingo: I'd also like to remind nubbins' Namworld and truffles of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2014#510761
mircea_popescu: decimation "everyone's making roi" or how did the scammertalk go
decimation: yeah. they claim it's because they are having to delay delivery of the newer 20 nm chips
decimation: On the other hand, it's better than nothing at all, like BFL
mircea_popescu: o cause not having delivered anything else they're now delaying for better stuff to not deliver
mircea_popescu: this seems to me so familiar somehow...
BingoBoingo: decimation: BFL ships things... To Tiger Direct and newegg after their customers give up on them.
BingoBoingo: I only learned of this yesterday. That BFL has a 10 GH/s miner sold through warehouse stores.
decimation: who is going to go to Sam's club to buy a bitcoin miner?
BingoBoingo: decimation: People who lack the btc to overstock.com?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.0030323 = 0.4548 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "In 301, one gold aureus was worth 833⅓ denarii; by 324, the same aureus was worth 4,350 denarii. In 337, after Constantine converted to the solidus, one solidus was worth 275,000 denarii and finally, by 356, one solidus was worth 4,600,000 denarii."
mircea_popescu: i wonder what one could have bought with a denarius or two back then
mircea_popescu: but say it was like a dollar, you needed 5 of them for a cup of coffee
mircea_popescu: imagine walking around with ~50mn in the shape of ten coins, weighing 1/4 pound
BingoBoingo: Moar nao can fit on a microsd card. I'd like to feel that.
mircea_popescu: but the social implications
mircea_popescu: anyone could have taken your gold coins
mircea_popescu: yet society functioned just fine.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile today, abramovich visiting some london court has nowhere to eat.
mircea_popescu: i think one major point people fail to properly consider is just how unwarrantedly equalitarian society today is.
BingoBoingo: That point is true.
mircea_popescu: and just how unsustainable that theatre is, on the face.
decimation: it's a religion
mircea_popescu: decimation yeah, the religion of "views".
BingoBoingo: It doesn't even have the history to be religion.
greenspan_fan: alternatively, it's a cool-off
greenspan_fan: you're much less likely to get hassled as a billionaire if you pretend other people are worth as much as you by some metric
BingoBoingo: Fun would be taking a time machine back to 400AD carrying a pound of black pepper and an sks.
greenspan_fan: (just not the one you care about)
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: That is what your staff is for.
mircea_popescu: just the fact that someone'd even consider hassling you is indicative of serious systemic problems.
greenspan_fan: this isn't always the case though
mircea_popescu: ie, that tons of people are completely clueless as to their proper place in the world.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you recall that "come up with what you'd take back in time" contest on trilema ?
BingoBoingo wants expandable ASP style batons with inbuilt electroshock devices to exist.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, that may be before my time.
mircea_popescu: someone came up with tin foil iirc
mircea_popescu: i imagine tin foil'd make pretty good trade goods
greenspan_fan: I mean, if the true scope of the gulf between the average and someone in the 0.001% was really appreciable, the average person has so much less to lose
BingoBoingo: In Napoleon III's court Aluminium was worth everything
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan they all have equally the same to lose : their place in the world.
mircea_popescu: this notion that anyone could be anything is kind-of strange.
mircea_popescu: all comparison predicated on it even stranger.
greenspan_fan: true, but people have some grasp of how far the fall is for others
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8133 @ 0.00086557 = 7.0397 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: If a billionaire falls 99% in the forbes standings they are still richer than Rap Genius
mircea_popescu: cryptorush is a fine example in an endless string of fine examples as to why this nonsense is harmful to the stupid poor.
greenspan_fan: which nonsense? that anyone can be anything?
mircea_popescu: in general, if you're too stupid to make a pan, you're much better off thinking you're too stupid to make a pan thank thinking you're smart enough to make a pan.
mircea_popescu: arguably society as a whole extracts more benefits from the stupid who think themselves smart than from any other venue,
mircea_popescu: but this seems hardly sustainable.
mircea_popescu: no shortage of posts on the subject methinks :D
decimation: In old Japan, it wasn't illegal to be an asshole. It wasn't even illegal to be an asshole to a samurai. But it was illegal to be an asshole to a samurai - if you weren't a samurai. See how it works? You might say the samurai were a sort of protected class. A system not at all unique to old Japan. Always and everywhere, "microaggressing" against the protected class is hazardous to your health.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu: I don't understand-- why more benefits? why unsustainable?
mircea_popescu: decimation dunno how far i'd take that always and everywhere, i like say nigger and shit.
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan check the sling dope article ?
mircea_popescu: after which i'll gladly answer if you need further answering
asciilifeform: nobody cancelled this
asciilifeform: try microaggressing against herr dimon, should you ever chance to encounter him in a lift.
decimation: well, Herr Yarvin's point is that the niggers have taken the place of the roman duke
decimation: with all the attendant rot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform like what, say he is ugly and his mother dresses him funny ?
asciilifeform: yarvin also noted 'yi yi zhi yi'
decimation: yeah there's no doubt that the elite whites in America would import any barbarian available to level their redneck enemies
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform srsly, construct a microagression scenario.
mircea_popescu: call him a rapist ? what ?
decimation: I suspect that merely attempting to enter the same confined room with him would be considered a 'microagression'
mircea_popescu: you're nuts, i rode in elevators with all sorts of people, what
mircea_popescu: this pokemania stuff is very recent.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu: read it; still unsure why it's unsustainable-- 0->1 SD is always going to be about 18%
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan it's unsustainable because it creates frustration in the stupid.
mircea_popescu: frustration in the stupid can never be resolved.
mircea_popescu: thus the costs baloon to eventual doom.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu: they move on to a new fandom (catharsis!) or get a clue; new people are attracted by the same mechanisms as the previous cohort
mircea_popescu: this in the ideal, business plan rendition of the thing (infinite hitpoints etc)
mircea_popescu: in the real retelling of the situation, they start smoking pcp and quit showing up for work.
mircea_popescu: all the problems the us faces today are strictly an attempt to somehow manage the frustration of the stupid that the unsustainable system induced.
mircea_popescu: people much poorer who lack the delusions of grandeur are actually doing just fine all over the rest 19/20ths of the world.
chetty: well these days they try to exploit the frustration
mircea_popescu: so, unsustainable budgets because of "mandatory" social spending,
mircea_popescu: unsustainable budgets because no business whatsoever,
mircea_popescu: the country's nigh on ungovernable, and the reason is simply that the 4/5ths of the population that are the idiots believe they are not actually subhuman.
greenspan_fan: yeah, I sort of wonder how it will all play out
mircea_popescu: every dood with a ged and a history of shelf stacking thinks they're a person just as much as me. this bizarre state of affairs can only lead to fallover.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8819 @ 0.00086557 = 7.6335 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan well how could it play out ? teh fifth that matters tried to voice till they got bored, now they're mostly exiting
asciilifeform: for those who somehow avoided hearing of it, a basic 'newton's laws' of the degringolade: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/p/the-five-stages-of-collapse.html
mircea_popescu: to use decimation's earlier terminology.
asciilifeform: strike that
asciilifeform: (the original piece, vs. the ad for the book-length elaboration)
ozbot: The Five Stages of Collapse
decimation: I like to experience the fifth stage when I play dayz
greenspan_fan: thx, read it
mircea_popescu: uh orlov deleted it from his blog ?
greenspan_fan: the question is where can you exit to?
asciilifeform: it's just buried
decimation: there is no exit
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan generally, the third world or your dreams.
asciilifeform: inner emigration. works great until gasenwagen.
mircea_popescu: romans exited to gaul, byzantines exited to the arabs and northern europe etc
asciilifeform: (re dreams)
decimation: perhaps it will be possible that a group of pissed off Euros will invade some reasonable turd world country and create a colony
mircea_popescu: Solzhenitsyn spent a while exiting in his head then did it properly
decimation: except they would be the mortal enemies of the entire multicult
mircea_popescu: decimation like what, argentina ?
greenspan_fan: it already happened once
asciilifeform: orlov has a pretty good 'do it now, in the open, and they'll zap you' piece
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i believe that to be a lie. would you say i'm not personally an example of in the open etc ?
asciilifeform: re: en masse colonies
asciilifeform: rather than individual escapees
mircea_popescu: o i thought re exits
mircea_popescu: i sitll have my doubts tho.
decimation: bitcoin seems to be a charmed matter
asciilifeform: u.s. is Elphialtes 'with an army and navy.'
mircea_popescu: the us does not have anything like the projective powers it imagines it has.
decimation: it sufficiently conflicts the interests of the bureaucrats that they cannot see the threat clearly
greenspan_fan: military bases in half the world's countries
asciilifeform: fuck, not ephialtes
asciilifeform: but the other fellow
asciilifeform should go to bed
decimation: yeah me too
greenspan_fan: higher defense spending than just about every other country combined
asciilifeform: Ephialtes of Trachis
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan you know, anyone can bezzle.
asciilifeform: as seen in '300'
greenspan_fan: I think they do, but it would be politically complicated to actually deploy it.
mircea_popescu: haha where did i hear that last
mircea_popescu: wait, was it the soviets ? i think it was.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu: yes, but if they decided to actually get their money's worth it would be spectacular
mircea_popescu: "we could do it but we don wanna!"
mircea_popescu: no, it wouldn't be.
mircea_popescu: lemme tell you a story.
asciilifeform: the lepers will not suffer an identifiable colony of the healthy to live
decimation: all of that fancy military hardware would be gone tomorrow if the dollar collapsed
asciilifeform: if they have any say about it.
mircea_popescu: an old american moves to a thai village.
mircea_popescu: he has pension payments, and the thai are poor.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, he's a frail old man without a clue.
mircea_popescu: so he ends up "investing" : he buys a share in the local cafe
mircea_popescu: and i nthe local whorehouse
mircea_popescu: (but he still has to pay for service)
mircea_popescu: eventually he's out of money,
mircea_popescu: but he's too kindly to actually cash in on his investments that looky helped the village thrive.
mircea_popescu: if he did tho... well it'd be spectacular.
mircea_popescu: no, it wouldn't be. he'd just be stripped naked and anally raped with a pole for public amusement.
mircea_popescu: it is best for his future to stfu and kowtow.
asciilifeform: that's because he's piss-poor (in the non-monetary economy of the place, the one that actually counts)
mircea_popescu: exactly like the us.
mircea_popescu: as the entire snowden thing shows.
mircea_popescu: somehow it wasn't a north vietnamese that leaked the homemade porn of the fucktarded "supreme leader"
greenspan_fan: but in cases of embezzlement, they're wasting capacity
greenspan_fan: a national emergency (when government and contractor interests are aligned) would actually put that capacity to use
mircea_popescu: you are very naive indeed.
decimation: such an emergency is precisely the time that the unpayable debts become due
mircea_popescu: ever heard of the an lushan rebellion ?
greenspan_fan: that's pretty obscure
asciilifeform: what soviet arms, with the possible exception of trench-diggers at tbilisi, quelled the rebellions?
mircea_popescu: ok, well, it was a major rebellion in china
mircea_popescu: it shows that in a national emergency the govt and contractor interests are not merely not alligned
mircea_popescu: but actually not allignable.
decimation: plenty of rebellions were fueled by cheap ak's though
mircea_popescu: i suppose one could take the parliamentary wars in england too
asciilifeform: decimation: don't confuse the aftermath of the romans/soviets marching home from the colonies with rebellion.
greenspan_fan: like those around 1600-1700?
mircea_popescu: a, now in THAT case the interests allign.
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan yes the stuff around charles
asciilifeform: orlov's point 'business-as-usual is a manufactured product' is a useful one
asciilifeform: once the collective hallucination pops, no amount of public beheading brings it back
mircea_popescu: moreover, finding agents to do the beheading becomes expensive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 7000 @ 0.0002 = 1.4 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: for they well know that the enemy may or may not be inclined to buy the nurnberg defense.
asciilifeform: usually, free agents account for most of the heads, though
mircea_popescu: the beauty of "national emergencies" is that even bureaucrats suddenly become free agents
mircea_popescu: which they live subjectively as a rape by reality.
asciilifeform: chechen: 'nice house.' russian: 'it's mine. wanna buy?' chechen: 'i'll talk it over with my chums, we'll see you at 0400 hrs for a chat' next day: chechens in house, pigs eat well
decimation: for the select few like Cromwell, they can ride the wave of terror to new heights
decimation: most end up dead
mircea_popescu: decimation the reference was pre cromwell tho
mircea_popescu: rump parliament et all. charles' problems.
mircea_popescu: obviously all power vacuums create plugs, much like all drainage pipes create clogs
mircea_popescu: but we're not there yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 301 @ 0.00086849 = 0.2614 BTC [+]
decimation: the Reformation is another example - once Luther revealed the lies of the church, hundreds of third parties immediatedly started to grasp for the raw power up for grabs
greenspan_fan: i'd still say that the u.s. could project more power but doesn't because the world is too complicated. Something might be a good idea tactically but terrible strategically, etc.
mircea_popescu: not sure that's the read i'd put on luteranism
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan it could project more power at the risk of having its arms broken off and used to beat it over the head.
greenspan_fan: in the event of some unifying scenario of principle actors (say, a world war) they'd be much more effective
mircea_popescu: consider the simple point of the wtc bombing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 1400 @ 0.00021 = 0.294 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ten arabs turned a spot of their choosing in manhattan from bank to mosque.
mircea_popescu: at a cost to the us of about billions in direct damages, and then billions more in materiel over a war they've yet to win.
mircea_popescu: soo... for the arab side : 1.enemies looses bank ; 2. we gain mosque ; 3. we destroy some enemy wealth ; 4. enemy destroys some more of its own wealth.
mircea_popescu: seems a win win win win.
greenspan_fan: ok, we cannot take the actions of george bush as an example of great or even good strategy
mircea_popescu: we can take the historical facts as historical facts tho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for the folks who actually run the place, this was an epic pants-creaming victory, rather than the apparent humiliation.
decimation: george bush was a figurehead upon a bureaucracy
mircea_popescu: it wasn't bush building a mosque there.
greenspan_fan: the smarter move would've been to mourn and then move on
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so for the folks running the forbidden city all sorts of things were epic pants creaming victories.
mircea_popescu: up until the time when barbarians stormed in and took a piss on their kimono
greenspan_fan: asciilifeform also, it lead to the election of obama, and some of those people (depending on proximity to political center) were terrified of what he might do
mircea_popescu: anyway. obama thought he's tough tits, talked shit to putin like any random forum retard.
mircea_popescu: he got beaten into a pulp. like any forum retard.
mircea_popescu: i don't see this exceptionalism of bush you propose.
greenspan_fan: his administration made exceptionally bad choices, is all
mircea_popescu: he seems more or less average.
mircea_popescu: not worse than the current
greenspan_fan: compare w/ clinton or nixon as executives, though
mircea_popescu: arguably clinton was a lot better than the lot of them, but hey. he didn;t in the end have the balls to come out and say "i am the president. i fuck whoever i want whenever i want in whatever manner i feel like. get lost twerps"
greenspan_fan: political considerations (can't do much if other democrats can't get elected). Which is the price you pay for living in an egalitarian society.
decimation: nixon was terrible; he fathered the modern multicult
greenspan_fan: his administration was one of the most well run in recent memory
mircea_popescu: nixon was pretty atrocious, politically speaking.
mircea_popescu: surprising you don't have reagan in there, really.
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan go into detail re: well run. use examples.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that yarvin piece is absolutely fuckingly hysterically funny, because :
mircea_popescu: " I was pretty amazed that he went for it. He flat out said that he wants his film to be funded and wasn't sure if it'd be possible after all of his, and I replied that it realistically wasn't going to happen without the say-so of someone like me, and I wasn't inclined to give some producer the nod on this. "
greenspan_fan: The ones that come to mind in terms of achievements: detente, opened relations w/ china, created EPA,
mircea_popescu: the "someone like me" is some nobody on twitter, whose claim to fame was "retweeting only women"
asciilifeform: wait which?
mircea_popescu: that such terpitude even exists in the open...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the bron scare one.
decimation: his post about Anil Dash
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan i thought we were discussing projection of power.
mircea_popescu: did the subject change ?
mircea_popescu: somehow somewhere in this world this fucktard exists, and he doth believe he meaningfully has any impact on anything whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: this is like dr greg to the power of ten
greenspan_fan: sort of-- you asked me to qualify "well-run" re: nixon. Who I had used as an example of executive quality impacting projection of power via strategic considerations
mircea_popescu: i asked you to qualify well run strictly in the context of our discussion.
mircea_popescu: which is how i took it you meant it.
mircea_popescu: otherwise you know... some presidents were really tall and handsome.
asciilifeform: discussions like this inevitably conflate '...was an effective ruler' and 'the buttons on his throne still worked in those days.'
mircea_popescu: again reagan
greenspan_fan: I wanted to avoid vietnam and associated regions because that's a debate quagmire
mircea_popescu: only debatable in the sense of debatably useful for your side in this discussion
mircea_popescu: otherwise it easily sums up to "example of the us failing to project its claimed power"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00086852 = 8.2509 BTC [+] {2}
greenspan_fan: but clearly, being able to get china/su to come to the table entails some projection of power, no?
asciilifeform: the buttons are a little dodgy nowadays. some clogged with spoodge, some connected to winblows '98 boxen, others miswired.
mircea_popescu: any woman can get men to come to her table,
mircea_popescu: all she needs is to lift the tail.
greenspan_fan: but for nixon it wasn't from a position of supplication
mircea_popescu: nor was it from its opposite.
mircea_popescu: nixon in china is nothing like breznev in china.
decimation: you should read what Chiang Kai-Shek thought of Nixon
greenspan_fan: so for the us to successfully projected power, it would have to treat china like panama?
mircea_popescu: that would be what you're proposing, n'est pas ? that it could do such a thing, "if need be"
greenspan_fan: chiang kai shek was a miserable bastard who was mad at the us because they got shafted after wwii and korea
mircea_popescu: wait, nixon wasn't a miserable bastard ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40790 @ 0.00086911 = 35.451 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: or brejnev or who exactly.
greenspan_fan: on my bookshelf, but haven't read it
decimation: the us abandoned china to Stalin and Mao
decimation: because FDR loved him some commies, more or less
mircea_popescu: jackshit they could have done, cmon.
greenspan_fan: no, it was truman's/eisenhower's decision
decimation: fdr's lackeys
mircea_popescu: it was plato's decision just as well heh.
greenspan_fan: post wwii, macarthur planned to open the korean theatre to include china as well
mircea_popescu: "i decide not to fly to mars"
greenspan_fan: he and chiang conspired to attack on two fronts
asciilifeform: decimation: problem with herry moldy & co. is that the west refrained from 'dulles plan' (rearm the jerries and play a rematch in '45) because they knew they'd have their balls handed to them
greenspan_fan: the joint chiefs advised against it so it ended up not happening
asciilifeform: and not because of the u.s admins being traitors in disguise
decimation: My objection is to FDR's "europoe first" strategy
mircea_popescu: decimation because why ?
asciilifeform: not enought nukes on the shelf at that point to make a meaningful difference
mircea_popescu: without that the us story would have ended in the 60s rather than 50 years later.
decimation: if china were secured, hitler would have been worn down
decimation: by internal squabble and bureaucracy
mircea_popescu: you have any idea what "china" cca 1945 means ?
decimation: right, it's basically a massive number of peasents
mircea_popescu: the only factory produced chewing gum.
decimation: eh, fuck it you're right
greenspan_fan: not really sure if that was winnable, and also, germany constituted a much greater threat
decimation: even 1942 US would have been able to marshal them to do anything useful
mircea_popescu: germany left alone to overrun england'd have been a royal fucking pain.
decimation: "would not have been"
decimation: ascii, do you believe in Moldbug's "Hitler invaded Russia in self defense idea"?
decimation: it seems a pretty big stretch
asciilifeform: lifted from Rezun
mircea_popescu: it does seem the sort of nonsense he publishes for the sake of being interesting to chicks.
asciilifeform: whose writings on subjects he was personally connected with (gru, spetznaz) were interesting and plausible, the other stuff, not so much.
decimation: it seems that there would be a pile of nazi intelligence or something that would substantiate the claim
decimation: I've no doubt that Stalin had the motive and opportunity
mircea_popescu: "You know, Goog, once you start lying, there's really no end to it. For one thing, even if your enemies ignore lying, defensive evasion, and other telltale "beta" behaviors, they still own you." <<< whoa.
mircea_popescu: so yarvin delivers. there, greenspan_fan is a short and sweet explanation of the concept.
mircea_popescu: whether its enemies actually bother to call the us on its gargle or not... they still own it.
mircea_popescu: and pretty much everyone knows.
decimation: yeah exactly. 1942 US would not have been alpha enough to marshal the oriental hordes into invading moscow
mircea_popescu: decimation average han guy marching ~1700 days on foot to reach moscow ?!
asciilifeform: the whole notion of applying concepts from 'human' civvie life, with various connotations, like 'self defence', to the doings of empires, is fundamentally disingenuous.
mircea_popescu: not for a thousand houris.
decimation: one laughs at the thought
mircea_popescu: decimation in one of the countless retellings of the entire nazi thing (a woman in berlin)
mircea_popescu: a russian officer makes the point that most of the russian soldiers didn't even know wtf germany is
mircea_popescu: before it had to fucking invade. and they likely wouldn't have cared to find out.
decimation: it's true. the invasion creates a Schelling point
mircea_popescu: hitler was, if my otherwise uninformed opinion interests, simply caught in a battle with his own demons.
mircea_popescu: the old plans (from ww2) called for germany to sweep west into france and then east to russia
mircea_popescu: this for very good reasons having to do with mobilization times.
mircea_popescu: hitler had an inferiority complex to the "old regime"
decimation: his betters?
mircea_popescu: and never was fully confident in his actually much smarter military advisers.
mircea_popescu: so he just tried to do what the pops did.
mircea_popescu: the old plans (from ww1) i mean
mircea_popescu: of course the great germany of ww1 fielded as many people as russia did,
mircea_popescu: and about 2x as many as france.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There is a huge gulf between an Officer and a Soldier though.
mircea_popescu: well, corporal as the case may be.
asciilifeform: everyone here read 'hitler's table talk' ?
mircea_popescu: i have not.
asciilifeform: recommended.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck am i going to read anything, im stuck here with you guise,
mircea_popescu: reading all the words
decimation: hehe yeah
decimation: speaking of which I must sleep or my mind will be useless
asciilifeform wanders off to read 1970s Наука и жизнь, on brand new 2560 x 1600 lcd.
BingoBoingo: Officer vs Soldier is Usagi versus Usagi's self image.
greenspan_fan: hey, I was wondering: is there anyone keeping track of mt. gox's inflows/outflows? or are those too hard to identify/untangle?
mircea_popescu: the thinking is that you're more likely to misinform than inform trying to do that.
greenspan_fan: I am assuming it's hugely profitable for those who have been keeping track
mircea_popescu: how you figure ?
greenspan_fan: it should be near zero or near the other exchanges, if enough people knew if it was (in)solvent, right?
mircea_popescu: so if mtgox recycles its deposits to its own addresses fifty times it now has paid out 50x its actual capital ?
greenspan_fan: the fact that it isn't (and assuming it's possible to trade in any volume) means that you'd be selling/buying from people who clearly don't know as much as you do
greenspan_fan: no, I mean, if you're able to buy from them and subsequently transfer from them
greenspan_fan: or alternatively, sell your account/wallet to someone else who thinks they're solvent
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 27500 @ 0.00018025 = 4.9569 BTC [-] {26}
Vexual: or have another milkshake and stay rotund
greenspan_fan: my personal belief is that they're fucked, but it'd be profitable to know one way or the other
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8840 @ 0.00086649 = 7.6598 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 760 @ 0.00087008 = 0.6613 BTC [+]
Vexual: thats prolly exactly what they're thinking greenspan_fan
Vexual: i wonder if they even know how much they double spent
greenspan_fan: here's all you need to know, haha : https://twitter.com/MtGox
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: There is a lot to learn from Vexual
greenspan_fan: sorry, wasn't trying to be rude
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 65 @ 0.00305 = 0.1983 BTC [+]
benkay: anything interesting happen today BingoBoingo?
greenspan_fan: my impression was that they're past the point of being a functioning business since they're not bothering to update/answer customers, and one of the public facing parts of their business (twitter) hasn't been updated and what is there is embarrassing, since, like a month ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8814 @ 0.00086509 = 7.6249 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: benkay: Just fucking with the car again
greenspan_fan: so the heuristic judgement suggests a significant amount of double spending
BingoBoingo: Fucking check engine light
greenspan_fan: slash double withdrawals, w/e
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: I suspect more just Mark has a touch of downs and imagines he can hug away his scams
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1292 @ 0.00086423 = 1.1166 BTC [-]
benkay: where's my berkely auto distribution
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 90 @ 0.0055 = 0.495 BTC
Vexual: hook it up to some interior disco leds BingoBoingo
Vexual: fixed!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.539 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: BingoBoingo his repeated lack of response to those protesters is not a good sign either
BingoBoingo: Vexual: The way the car is now, I might give myself epilipsy trying that.
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: Protesters are worthless unless they go as far as Ukraine.
greenspan_fan: BingoBoingo but you'd think that after the fifth encounter he might have something to say?
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: People have things to say. Scammers though prefer to say less.
greenspan_fan: exactly
BingoBoingo: From Mr. Ponzi to Mr. Karpales
BingoBoingo: Oh, how did this n00b post to a locked thread?
Vexual: coz disco lights
ozbot: BitcoinSports.eu - Bitcoin Sportsbook - Parlays & Teasers - No Registration
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 8442 @ 0.00017014 = 1.4363 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00303 = 0.2424 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00303 = 0.2727 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1558 @ 0.00017 = 0.2649 BTC [-] {4}
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @nntaleb Hey, I wanna give ...
mircea_popescu: taleb doesn't want bitcoins too ;/
Vexual: whos that guy?
mircea_popescu: he invented swans.
Vexual: he looks like a fuckwit
mircea_popescu: he's possibly the only smart guy on twitter.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Do you need someone to talk to 'Muricans?
Vexual: i could be wrong
mircea_popescu: that all depends.
greenspan_fan: did you read antifragile?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6522 @ 0.00086734 = 5.6568 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: it was really bad in comparison to tbs and fbr
davout: hi assets
davout: don't give dem coins away
davout: it usually goes that way in my experience
davout: "umm, well thanks"
Vexual: davout votes 4
davout: two years later, when price did x100
davout: "oh hey, remmember this bitcoin you gave me? lost it"
davout: and variations thereof
mircea_popescu: davout i wouldn't particularly mind having this to hold over taleb.
mircea_popescu: especially because of all the shit he's written.
davout: makes sense
mircea_popescu: omfg that is bad.
davout: "and these words convinced me to blog-pukku"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.0053 = 0.1802 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00086734 = 1.9081 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: davout which you mean ?
davout: blog-seppuku
mircea_popescu: uh what's that mean ?
davout: if the first comment i get about it is "omfg that is bad." :-)
mircea_popescu: dun tell me you deleted it, i just linked it from twitter
mircea_popescu: well, the thing you discuss is bad.
mircea_popescu: the blog post is fine
davout: ah thank you!
davout: it kinda looks like the store-your-porn kind of security device, not the store-your-bitcoin-wallet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00087057 = 12.6233 BTC [+] {2}
B007: haha I have an address
B007: 10 000 of them
mircea_popescu: B007 yeah but you don't have the name.
mircea_popescu: funny how nature works.
B007: mmhmm
B007: well im in cs so
B007: maybe someday
B007: after school
mircea_popescu: indeed so.
B007: And I met this pentester that works at hp
B007: kinda interesting
B007: he makes 100 000 + a year
greenspan_fan: isn't that kinda low?
greenspan_fan: or 100000+ from bounties alone?
BingoBoingo: Bar Rescue might be the second best education in BTC business
B007: greenspan_fan: I mean I don't know exactly how much he makes
B007: I was told around 100 000 so
mircea_popescu: so oprah rich.
B007: lol
greenspan_fan: someday, once my dogecoin mining rig comes in
B007: lol
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: That day you will ency BFL customers or what?
greenspan_fan: haha, who do you think I ordered from?
mircea_popescu: bfl makes doge coin miners ?
greenspan_fan: it cost a lot, but you have to spend dr. phil money to become oprah rich
greenspan_fan: it's a joke
mircea_popescu: well. "makes".
greenspan_fan: a friend of mine ordered a miner from them and now uses it mainly as a space heater
greenspan_fan: so probably a bad investment
B007: coinbase is surprisingly stable. been around 600 usd / 1 btc forever. artificial?
BingoBoingo: B007: Can it be anything else?
greenspan_fan: looking on their website, their charts stop in december: https://coinbase.com/charts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8693 @ 0.00087066 = 7.5686 BTC [+]
Vexual: nubbins' might get you some good organic bitcoins
Vexual: mircea_popescu, it stikes me that the collected works of this taleb fellow might cost less to buy than 1bc, have you tried his publisher(s)?
mircea_popescu: i am not interested in a) enriching foreign third parties or b) participating in relationships of any kind on any other structure than as designed by me.
Vexual: you could ask that they are sent in a carbon nuetral fashion and all
mircea_popescu: so no, the bitcoin only exists if he does what i say.
Vexual: lol
Vexual: but talking to the phone girls at publishing houses is so much fun
mircea_popescu: so talk to em.
mircea_popescu: jesus god, yarvin actually argues that the us invented communism ?
Vexual: they may have repurposed the word
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell decimation thanks for that link, i lold.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: this would be a fine example of why i hold the guy for a complete ignoramus.
greenspan_fan: the problem w/ offering to send people bitcoin is that the people who are doing it lately have like 0.001 btc to their name
mircea_popescu: the reality on the field is that france invented communism, and everyone tried to copy france to some degree.
mircea_popescu: to spin this into some sort of story of our pathetic colonies being relevant, let alone central...
mircea_popescu: it takes a lot of acid.
Vexual: not really an argument
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6581 @ 0.00087066 = 5.7298 BTC [+]
Vexual: communism might be one of those thing that one has to experience to fully understand
greenspan_fan: absolutely it is
B007: the commies are coming! hide under a desk
greenspan_fan: it just doesn't seem like enough to point out how it goes the same way every time
Vexual: i expect dreadlocked hippies living in a squat isn't the same
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan infinite hitpoints. the evisceration of each individual head of cattle is its own, private and special event.
greenspan_fan: Partly, you have to be restricted from opting out
mircea_popescu: it only goes the same way if you're not yourself a cow.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu I don't really get the "infinite hitpoints" thing
greenspan_fan: thx, brb
ozbot: Bitcoin ATM goes live in Albuquerque, more coming to Austin and Seattle | Ars Technica
Vexual: mirce do you think communism as it was in romania allowed more opportunities for people to be successful?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4248 @ 0.00086732 = 3.6844 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: communism is like cancer : at the very most it allows the fucked to appreciate how great it'd have been if they weren't so fucked.
greenspan_fan: on one hand, there are the people who just don't learn from experience
greenspan_fan: but there's also the people who don't respond to any sort of abstract counterargument
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00305 = 0.244 BTC [+] {2}
greenspan_fan: communism seems to attract the intersection of both groups
mircea_popescu: communism doesn't attract anyone really.
mircea_popescu: it's just the shithole in which the stupid fall.
mircea_popescu: i guess technically that may count as some sort of an attraction.
mircea_popescu: but no one goes there willingly. one is a communist that is too stupid, too lazy, or too stupid and lazy to be anything else.
greenspan_fan: low energy state
greenspan_fan: not a ground state, though
mircea_popescu: a jesuit, a pedophile, a wrestling fan, whatever.
greenspan_fan: Alternatively, you have people with great intelligence who support it because it's theoretically interesting, or controversial, or perhaps out of masochism
greenspan_fan: cf. zizek, who I can't really slot into one of the above groups
mircea_popescu: no, simply your categorisation of these people is flawed.
Vexual: they want everyman to have the same power or something
BingoBoingo: Zizek is a wrestling fan
greenspan_fan: vis. crediting them with intelligence? or describing why they might be interested?
mircea_popescu: either they are in fact intelligent but it has nothing to do with the shameful stupidity of communism, much like beethoven probably farted but this isn;t normally mentioned
mircea_popescu: or else they just weren't intelligent. at all.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo how very aspirational of him.
greenspan_fan: marx was intelligent, but defined communism
mircea_popescu: you familiar with saul lieberman ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I just going off of what I see. Zizek dislike the communism he grew up with, but instead prefered the still stupider communism advanced by Hulkamania
greenspan_fan: no, but I'll look it up
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: Are you familiar with Transnistria?
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan "it is forbidden to have a course in nonsense. But the history of nonsense, that is scholarship."
B007: who is that quote by
mircea_popescu: B007 i just said lol.
Vexual: its new
greenspan_fan: BingoBoingo no, but I'll look it up
mircea_popescu: the quote was re kabbalah, of course, but it makes little difference.
mircea_popescu: lol poor guy will end up making wikipedia not load again.
B007: I sure will
greenspan_fan: it's a good quote
mircea_popescu: it makes the point. marx studying idiocy is marx studying idiocy.
mircea_popescu: some bovine being a communist is not marx, but some bovine.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 5000 @ 0.00300006 = 15.0003 BTC [-] {5}
greenspan_fan: but he genuinely believed it was the ideal system of the world
mircea_popescu: and quod licet marxi non licet bovi.
mircea_popescu: this you know because how.
Vexual: and your freind with the offer of 1bc?
mircea_popescu: Vexual taleb ? what of him ?
greenspan_fan: cf. communist manifesto
Vexual: this is my question, its very open ended as usual
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan theoreticians often get overexcited which makes them be stupid.
mircea_popescu: i'm not throwing out heidegger or husserl or hegel on the grounds of being involved in communism
mircea_popescu: nor eliade or whoever else.
mircea_popescu: (the proposed difference between fascism, national socialism, soviet socialism, communism, etc so forth is purely imaginary)
greenspan_fan: which is what I alluded to when I said one of the reasons smart people espouse communism is for theoretical interest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2825 @ 0.00086423 = 2.4414 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: yeah but what is excusable in the 1800s back when nobody could or did read and so you were able to count on a certain audience
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: Transnistria is the last surviving Soviet Socialist Republic
mircea_popescu: is not excusable in 2000s, when everyone THINKS they can read.
greenspan_fan: BingoBoingo "surviving"
Vexual: i think i can't , and dont
greenspan_fan: yet you see people who still claim to be "communist" and aren't easily dismissed
Vexual: i can save two hours ignoring a book by not picking it up
mircea_popescu: i have seen no such thing to date.
greenspan_fan: it's one of those things you have to experience in order to discover that no, it won't be different this time
mircea_popescu: you mean persuaded rather than dismissed ?
Vexual: you can buy into a commune in nimbin for about 150k
greenspan_fan: "dismissed as idiots/not capable of understanding"
greenspan_fan: ever heard the song "Holiday in Cambodia"? It's kinda apropos
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan i think i must be missing something.
mircea_popescu: rather banal punk, classical themes (fakers, real world, bla bla), what of it ?
Vexual: is he saying marx was chasing his tail?
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu the lyrics are addressed to the stereotypical college leftist
greenspan_fan: suggesting a holiday in cambodia (under the pol pot regime), because something short of actually being in a communist country is unlikely to make an impact
greenspan_fan: hey, did you write/translate the poem in "The Letter Third"? http://trilema.com/2014/the-letter-third/
mircea_popescu: since we're doing this, you ever saw One, Two, Three ?
greenspan_fan: no, but I'll look it up
mircea_popescu: you should check it out. cagney in west berlin, fixing up the slutty daughter of his us boss with a local nutty kid.
mircea_popescu: commie kid.
mircea_popescu: and no, the original is a classical romanian poem, for which asciilifeform ferreted out the old soviet translations. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2014#509201
mircea_popescu: i did write the translation ad hoc.
mircea_popescu: (it's rather loose)
greenspan_fan: It was clever. Not what you expect on a blog.
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: That's why MP can charge
greenspan_fan: so I may have to find some of my usb keys to actually subscribe, rather than pirating
greenspan_fan: The line about facing the "same one doom" in trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or-the-importance-of-blogging/ was excellent as well
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan what are you talking about, not on a blog.
mircea_popescu: where else ?!
greenspan_fan: normally, blogs have a really poor signal-noise ratio, you know?
mircea_popescu: but this is merely a side effect of them having the absolute monopoly on all peaks of human production.
mircea_popescu: the same was true on broadway, back when broadway still mattered : huge noise to signal ratio.
greenspan_fan: which is not to say that they don't have interesting/worthwhile things in them
mircea_popescu: not much of any value or import can be found outside of a blog these days, nor will be for a while.
Vexual scoffs
greenspan_fan: but putting an idea in its best terms is hard, and blogs are somewhat low effort
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: I'm guessing you are 'Murican
greenspan_fan: BingoBoingo Canadian
mircea_popescu: low effort as compared to what ?
greenspan_fan: low effort in the sense that you can tell posts are first/second drafts
greenspan_fan: there's not an incentive to perfection
Vexual: theres an irc man
greenspan_fan: and in particular, the image of everything great ever written starting as a blank page was perfect
mircea_popescu: so how many drafts does trilema average ?
greenspan_fan: idk, but it's actually enjoyable/interesting to read
greenspan_fan: rather than having to go through tediously to find what's worthwhile
mircea_popescu: so guess ?
greenspan_fan: I can't really tell, since you're not a native english speaker, but I'd say "one draft" because you're baiting me.
Vexual: mano you said you could see how many edits it had
Vexual: i'll guess one billionty
greenspan_fan: Well, one purpose of multiple drafts is to capture the best version of what you're trying to say
mircea_popescu: i never draft. i publish then i have editors edit my shit. maybe once in a blue moon i decide midway that what i'm writing is stupid and drop it altogether.
greenspan_fan: but if the ideas are themselves good, the product tends to be good.
mircea_popescu: either that or satan.
greenspan_fan: yeah, I wasted my deal w/ the lower power on violin playing skills
Vexual: oh play for us
mircea_popescu: lol srsly.
mircea_popescu: you play the violin ?
Vexual: i do love a fiddle
Vexual: what do you play?
greenspan_fan: not well; it's a reference to niccolo paganini who was reported to cause riots and fainting spells at his concerts
mircea_popescu: the pedestrian explanation, of course, being that he had a much softer crowd to work with.
greenspan_fan: he was the original musician (I believe) whose reputation had faust superimposed over it
greenspan_fan: yeah, I went to see joshua bell and I barely rioted at all
ozbot: Beethoven Notturno in D for Viola ,Piano op.42 mov.1 - YouTube
mircea_popescu: you know of his subway experiment ?
cazalla: that idea to charge, did you get that from NYT or some other news site?
mircea_popescu: i GAVE IT to the nyt.
mircea_popescu: i was absolutely the first to charge.
cazalla: i hooked a big one
Vexual: hey, i do the trolling here cazalla
greenspan_fan: people need to be told what's worth money
ozbot: Hello NYT - Goodbye NYT pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: (ie, the nyt system is quite pathetic)
mircea_popescu: "Cred ca asta ar trebui sa-mi scriu pe cartea de vizita : eu sunt un tip care-a conceput asa, de unul singur, un sistem mai eficient decit chestia implementata de New York Times, sase opt luni mai tirziu."
mircea_popescu: "i suppose this is what should be on my business card : i'm the guy who came up on his own with a better system than what the nyt came up with, six i mean eight months later"
Vexual: the content is often chewier
greenspan_fan: isn't theirs worse, though? I can get the news from anywhere, but to read your site I have to use proxies or wait
mircea_popescu: it was a purely technical discussion.
mircea_popescu: theirs does not in fact work as implemented, like a lawn mower that doesn't cut, you just follow after it with clippers.
greenspan_fan: it's more intended for the severely computer illiterate
mircea_popescu: right. kind-of a poor excuse.
greenspan_fan: I think chrome's incognito mode lets you read any nyt article you want
Vexual: no ensuring the mower blades are firmly attached can be detrimental to observers health
mircea_popescu: so basically moldbug's september 2009 write-up on communism and whatnot is chiefly notable for his very good points on charity vs w/e, "callous altruism".
mircea_popescu: which actually came to be because of a discussion with asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: so i guess the circle is complete, don't recomend yarvin to me, recomend trilema to his readership, which will result in him having more stuff to write in the future.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00086222 = 10.1311 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan or if not some trivial html editing
greenspan_fan: that's another good post
ozbot: Irish Fiddle : Frankie Gavin 1 - YouTube
r3wt: ;;authenticate
gribble: Error: "authenticate" is not a valid command.
Vexual: namaste r3wt
r3wt: namaste Vexual
r3wt: ;;auth
gribble: (auth <nick>) -- Initiate authentication for user <nick>. You must have registered a GPG key with the bot for this to work. You will be given a random passphrase to clearsign with your key, and submit to the bot with the 'verify' command. Your passphrase will expire within 10 minutes.
Vexual: how are you?
r3wt: ;;auth r3wt
gribble: Error: You have not registered a GPG key. Try using bcauth instead, or register a GPG key first.
Vexual: ill give you a minute :)
r3wt: ;;auth 1337xmR8JRzwKonFgd17dhVo9NHQiP7875
gribble: Error: This nick is not registered. Please register.
r3wt: ;;auth r3wt
gribble: Error: You have not registered a GPG key. Try using bcauth instead, or register a GPG key first.
mircea_popescu: i would say this is working splendidly.
greenspan_fan: I've looked at the welfare state as supplanting charity, but it's interesting to think that having charity function properly in practice hurts the rational for the welfare state
Vexual: yarr#]
mircea_popescu: r3wt use bcauth as the bot tells you eh
r3wt: hmm, i have not registerd a gpg key it says. i
r3wt: ;;bcauth r3wt
gribble: Request successful for user r3wt, hostmask r3wt!add82c3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.216.44.61. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:b992307b1d423773c3a0c60d25f61343c84dd35ee8dad48939e1eef1
r3wt: awesome, thanks man
Vexual: thatll do
r3wt is n3wb
ozbot: Subpar: Anti-Obama Street Art Covers Santa Monica | Washington Free Beacon
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan imo that's like perfume supplanting washing.
r3wt: so i should buy and sell here to increase my ratings?
r3wt: WTS: 10 LTC. .026 /ea.
Vexual: you can help me to increse your ratings
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu happens in practice, still kinda gross
cazalla: can havelock stop people selling shares that were privately held but than added to the exchange later (see casino bitcoin)
BingoBoingo: WTS 75,000 ATC 2,000 Satoshis each
Vexual: r3wt, i accidently sent a bunch of bitcoin to my altcoin deposit address, can you have someone trasfer they kay over?
Vexual: take a % for the cause
cazalla: i wonder how long until casino bitcoin offload them then seeing the privately held ones were added to the exchange
Vexual: shareholders, devs, whatever
r3wt: I'm pretty sure i can't transfer the key from ATC to BTC
Vexual: im pretty sure u can
BingoBoingo: r3wt: Exact same key format
Vexual: dumpprivkey importprivkey
mircea_popescu: r3wt same keys work ya
r3wt: ^different checksum
Vexual: nope
r3wt: tx id vexual?
BingoBoingo: r3wt: Not for ATC and BTC
Vexual: experience the atc power friend
r3wt: how much btc is it anyway?
Vexual: 0.08 and change, whats it worth to you? you have the key
Vexual: i was thinking 10%
Vexual: you can take the lot if you like
Vexual: but thats not my preference
r3wt: lol, i'm not goinna take your coins. i was just wondering. i'm not experienced enough to be sure if importing the key is the idea, especially with reported "Transaction malleability" vulnerabilities discovered in bitcoin recently.
Vexual: well have a go, 10% is a generous offer
r3wt: 10% of what?
r3wt: are you being serious?
Vexual: take 10% of the bitcoin for your trouble, it should take all of 5 minutes
Vexual: yes
Vexual: nope, sounds like 2014
antephialtic: I don't think the turkish president gives a fuck how many twitter followers he has
ozbot: Sheryl Crow - All I Wanna Do - Rare Original Video - YouTube
mircea_popescu: so basically if people who predicate their lives on twitter followers consistently act like anyone gives a shit about their twitter followers, somehow ??? the twitter followers will matter ?
mircea_popescu: the turkish president could buy twitter and bury it somewhere and nobody'd even know.
r3wt: ok vexual. better not be any surpises here
davout: mircea_popescu: "what's the inernet gonna do? blog about it?" <<< made me lol and looks relevant here
Vexual: r3wt, ask any of the more reputable players here if you like
r3wt: ;;gettrust Vexual
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user r3wt to user Vexual: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=r3wt&dest=Vexual | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Vexual | Rated since: never
r3wt: you have no ratings
Vexual: its true
Vexual: did you see my support request to this effect with another username?
r3wt: ok. post your openex deposit address for bitcoin.
r3wt: you're high if you think i'm going to just import the private key on the server. i'll make a new local wallet import it then destroy the privatekey after i'
r3wt: send the coins.
Vexual: thanks, is 10% ok?
r3wt: no percent, i send it to you straight minus the tx fee
Vexual: you're the finest
cazalla: turning down a vig eh
ozbot: How AirBnB Became a Billion Dollar Company - Dave Gooden
mircea_popescu: pretty funny shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9555 @ 0.00086244 = 8.2406 BTC [+] {2}
r3wt: looks like Vexual lost .08 btc to stupidity
Vexual: it may be tru
Vexual: if you can get it back, take some money for your time
r3wt: if i could get it back, the bitcoin protocol would be seriously flawed.
r3wt: you can defy tradition and even physics, but you can't defy logic
mircea_popescu: what he do ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.00086007 = 1.0751 BTC [-]
Vexual: i was overly typical
Vexual: i sent btc to my atc add on openex
BingoBoingo: Is this an ===== problem?
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @anildash Your self-absorbed ...
mircea_popescu: anyone wanna lay odds on the fucktard actually showing ?
ozbot: Positive Force - We Got The Funk (Original US re-edit version vinyl 1979) - YouTube
Duffer1: SJ crap?
cazalla: sjw
BingoBoingo: I'd only offer 4.5 to 1 in favor of no.
mircea_popescu: social justice
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo o im taking that yes. how much is your pleasure ?
cazalla: Duffer1: check your bitcoin privilege
Vexual: whenever you get a chance r3wt, theres no rush
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Give me time for a glass of OJ and some more thought on those odds.
mircea_popescu: i don't recall such insolence in quite a while.
pankkake: must be weird to be called self-absorbed by MP
mircea_popescu: this guy is a sort of chewed gum attached to someone's boot.
mircea_popescu: "There was also a pretty dogged pitch for his startup, which will get all kinds of warm huzzahs from the intersection of MRAs, Bitcoin fans, NSA critics and Redditors. I was pretty amazed that he went for it. He flat out said that he wants his startup to be funded and wasn't sure if it'd be possible after all of his, and I replied that it realistically wasn't going to happen without the say-so of someone like me, and I
mircea_popescu: wasn't inclined to give some VC the nod on this. On reflection, I'll be explicit: If you're a venture capitalist, and you invest in Pax's startup without a profound, meaningful and years-long demonstration of responsibility from Pax beforehand, you're complicit in extending the tech industry's awful track record of exclusion, and it's unacceptable."
mircea_popescu: this is what the fucktard said.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have to see who this Dash guy is
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo literally nobody.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I need maybe 20 minutes to see what kind of Nobody though.
mircea_popescu: no rush.
mircea_popescu: the kind of nobody who imagines that buying 500k worth of twitter followers and going to faggoty parties in CA makes him notable.
BingoBoingo: I might also have to finish the episode of Bar Rescue first
mircea_popescu: prolly wise.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It is almost as good as the Variety Speak. We need John Taffer in this channel.
mircea_popescu: so tell him
Vexual: i can piss a better bar rescue in 30 second
Duffer1: btw thanks for sharing that last one BB
BingoBoingo: Need to find him first. This Dash dude is a social media hot mess. A year a retweeting only women for some Doge article.
mircea_popescu: the raping that this entire establishment of nothings and nobodies is about to get all through the rest of the decade is unparallel in the history of rape.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ayup
mircea_popescu: but you know, whatever. they're asking for it.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I read the Doge article on the retweets before. Name was unnotable though.
mircea_popescu: which doge is this ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i gotta say there is one thing i love about twitter :
mircea_popescu: the fact that by starting your tweets with an @ reference you effectively limit distribution to only those who already follow the idiot in question allows one to engage idiots who otherwise you'd hesitate to engage for the last thing you want is publicise unremarkable idiots.
Vexual: totes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07211003 = 0.2884 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.07211002 = 0.649 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.07210801 = 0.7211 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The Doge article where he wrote about only retweeting women. It would have been a Bit article if only it wouldn't insult Bit, hence Doge article.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 24 @ 0.0720325 = 1.7288 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: i dun think he actually has the clue to see the difference, just, the doge troop of fucktards probably haven't bought his payola whatever yet,
mircea_popescu: donated to a kitten shelter or w/e it is they do.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 27 @ 0.07151963 = 1.931 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.07020004 = 1.755 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: what srsly ?!@
Diablo-D3: people give a shit about gender on the internet? lol.
mircea_popescu: i don't get why that's supposed to be a problem anyway. so he retweeted only women. i fuck only women. seems about even.
Diablo-D3: it was flamebait on hn recently anyhow
mircea_popescu: First, to recap: I had about 18,000 followers of my own back in October, when I got added to the suggested user list. (Let's call these "organic" followers.) If I'd have continued my normal rate of growth, i'd have about 25,000 followers today, but thanks to being on the list, I've got close to 300,000 followers. Surprisingly though, I only get as many retweets and replies as I'd get with my organic number of followers.
BingoBoingo: Lloyds might have to insure a bet on Dash. So much Hurp. I don't think I can price Dash.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there's a price.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.069 = 0.69 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: The more I read the more i think he might show for a derp piece.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.06841332 = 1.0262 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: Or he could be too high and mighty.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 45 @ 0.06032109 = 2.7144 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00086273 = 5.7803 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 330 @ 0.055 = 18.15 BTC [-]
Duffer1: *click link* A Blog About Making Culture ... *closes tab*
Duffer1: i get the strong impression that it's more 'tell me what to think' type blogging rather than 'teach me how'
cazalla: i don't understand why there are more and more of these types of people
BingoBoingo: Reading his mouth feces makes me want to see him stop by
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 it's a fine example of the us socialism. guy's an (unpaid) propaganda agent of stupidity.
pankkake: because they can afford to live in their bubbles, away from reality?
BingoBoingo: pankkake: Not forever
pankkake: I hope so
cazalla: it's popping up everywhere though
cazalla: more recently gaming
mircea_popescu: closer to leni riefenstahl on the riefenstahl-eisenstein scale of socialist propaganda.
pankkake: I've seen a few "enough is enough" about the supposed IT sexism. I think the nonsense worked so far because those are usually quiet communities, so they took silence as acceptation
mircea_popescu: moreover, fuckwits like this and whats-her-rapeface cause i forgot tend to live in their own realities
mircea_popescu: sort-of like little mtgoxes scattered around the land.
BingoBoingo: In the meantime a higher portion of MP's IT and coding workforce has vaginas than SIlicon Valley's
mircea_popescu: this happens to be true.
mircea_popescu: but you see, it HAPPENS to be true.
mircea_popescu: perhaps at some level that happening happens because actual women that are actually competent also... happen to be more comfortable with me than with fucktards like this and his ilk. nevertheless...
r3wt: ping>>(i++)
mircea_popescu: anyway, from reading his comments i get now why the low income housing for free stuff is so important to these people.
mircea_popescu: basically, all the fuckwits doing the retweeting, redditing etc are people with "liberal" educations and a ton of debt, no means of sustenance and a desire to live in manhattan
cazalla: sounds like a micro aggression
mircea_popescu: so therefore... OF COURSE they want low income housing.
mircea_popescu: so they don't have to go back to ohio and help pick up the potato crop.
BingoBoingo: Anils seems to realize that if he didn't accidentally into Six Apart he could have been an expert cashier too
mircea_popescu: this shit's so like romania cca 1983 it burns.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Idaho is potatos. Ohio is shitpits.
mircea_popescu: ony because all the ohio fuckwits and ESPECIALLY fuckwitettes flocked to ny to be
mircea_popescu: "writers"
BingoBoingo: Any Industrial chemical process that smells too bad for New Jersey happens in Ohio
mircea_popescu: The punk rolled up his big blue eyes and said to the jocker, “Sandy,
mircea_popescu: I’ve hiked and hiked and wandered too, but I ain’t seen any candy.
mircea_popescu: I’ve hiked and hiked till my feet are sore and I’ll be damned if I hike any more
mircea_popescu: To be buggered sore like a hobo’s whore in the Big Rock Candy Mountains.”
BingoBoingo: Great song
BingoBoingo: Never before has Bowlderization done as much harm as it did to the Big Rock Candy Mountain
mircea_popescu: well maybe once or twice
BingoBoingo: Definitely no more than thrice though
ozbot: Candice is making breakfast pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ozbot: Shel Silverstein - Who's your Daddy, Sue? - YouTube
mircea_popescu: that sad moment when your favorite read of the day is a year old articlke of your own
mircea_popescu: "This video contains content from UMG. It is restricted from playback on certain sites"
mircea_popescu: meh fucking asshats these people.
BingoBoingo: Asshats everywhere
BingoBoingo: Great point "Boys get caught and go to jail, girls get caught and go to the maternity ward."
mircea_popescu: so they do.
mircea_popescu: so apparently thailand is up in flames
BingoBoingo: Thailand and Ukraine in flames at the same time? There won't be any girls left for the cam sites.
BingoBoingo: Maybe we should make Wisconsin poorer
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 15 @ 0.06524102 = 0.9786 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.066 = 0.396 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.53999999 = 3.24 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00086085 = 2.7117 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.00529998 = 0.1378 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 20 @ 0.0055 = 0.11 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00086044 = 7.3137 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work....After eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started...and an enormous debt to boot!"
mircea_popescu: who said ?
dub: alex jones
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00086025 = 8.1724 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: actually henry morgenthau
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 49 @ 0.00305 = 0.1495 BTC [+]
lnovy: Hi guys, anybody willing to explain me that 2/4/2014 mpex puts in laymen terms? thx
mircea_popescu: lnovy why not read the logs of that day ?
lnovy: mircea_popescu: I'm reading that, but I guess I'm not that schooled in the terminology, therefore I'm asking for layman terms...
mircea_popescu: there's also bugpowder's explanation on the forum
lnovy: eg. that little [-] at the end of assbot line has a meaning of what?
lnovy: the thread that is linking the irclog?
mircea_popescu: the [-] has the meaning that the current trade is at a lower price than the previous trade
lnovy: from bitcointalk? or some other? can you point me please with a link? I'd be glad
lnovy: thanks
lnovy: ok, will dive into that, thx
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.00086085 = 1.3774 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.067 = 0.134 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00086085 = 6.8007 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 26 @ 0.07498882 = 1.9497 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.0749891 = 1.4998 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Mashtags have been salted and hashed"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07498994 = 0.225 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 56 @ 0.07499227 = 4.1996 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00086144 = 4.2211 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: denmark, struggling to be even more of a joke.
mircea_popescu: if that were possible.
davout: france is considering banning foie gras
davout: or so i heard
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 203 @ 0.003 = 0.609 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2250 @ 0.00085996 = 1.9349 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.003 = 0.18 BTC [-]
pankkake: then southwest will probably secede
mircea_popescu: it's really amusing to watch, all the bs.
mircea_popescu: about five years ago romania "banned" classic lighbulbs.
the20year: And in the US some want to make kosher/halal slaughters manditory
mircea_popescu: i still use them, they're still available for sale. not in the supermarkets, of course, which happens to be great : i never used them, but now more people have direct economic incentive not to.
mircea_popescu: about thirty years ago, some countries in the waszaw pact were a lot more zealous than romania in implementing the glorious directives of the eastern socialist brother.
mircea_popescu: they... didn't do so well.
the20year: Which ones?
mircea_popescu: bulgaria, for instance.
the20year: Moldova seems to be a shining beacon of economic and poltical freedom. But that's the only one I can think of
the20year: Really? My bulgarian contacts seem to make fun of Romania for being more commie than themselves
mircea_popescu: haha really ?
the20year: Yeah
mircea_popescu: in broad strokes, the soviet plan was to have industry concentrated in russia and agriculture in the west.
the20year: my one contact there keeps wanting me to come over and help with business development. He has a ton of cool stuff going on since they can export to the EU
mircea_popescu: it worked in the ukraine and bulgaria, which mostly made pickles all through the 90s.
mircea_popescu: and as a result, they actually had a famine, in the 90s
the20year: Pickles and hunger
the20year: Ukraine had a fammine in like 2004 or 2005
the20year: Nothing like the holomodor mind you, but they were worried about an agricultural collapse on a massive scale
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 23 @ 0.0053 = 0.1219 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: im aware.
the20year: That's when grain prices in the US started to boom which is finally starting to end now
the20year: Land prices went from $3k/ac to nearly $8k locally
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the same 2004, romania was one of the 3 countries the us was suspecting might have sold inertial stabilizers and other high tech gear to the evil arabs.
the20year: Yeah, obviously that's stupid because Romania can't produce things like that, they're more into producing shovels and cheap inaccurate guns
mircea_popescu: so mayhap said bulgarian guy is a little... you know, confabulating.
mircea_popescu: the20year actually, romania is exactly capable of producing them, and in fact it had sold them.
the20year: His statement to me was that all political officals are corrupt, but they're also cheap to buy, so you can get done whatever you want for a few hundred bucks
the20year: Compared to moldova, where it costs $1m to build a $50,000 building
mircea_popescu: yes, which is the gist of my earlier point.
mircea_popescu: romania is very corrupt, and much so to its benefit.
mircea_popescu: at the rate things are going france or denmark may be tomorrow's bulgaria and ukraine.
davout: yup
the20year: I don't know about that, it's going to be quite interesting though in 20 years
davout: i'm considering opening a bitcoin exchange in nigeria, thoughts?
the20year: Between negative population growth, rise of immigration and 75% taxes, it'll make for a quite interesting century
mircea_popescu: take some foreign legion folks with you.
mircea_popescu: they're well respected.
the20year: I just want to see how the map changes in Europe more
the20year: Maybe scottland, flanders and some of spain will break off
mircea_popescu: the20year i pay ~3%. i dunno where you got that 75% from.
the20year: You have assets over 1m?
davout: lived there, mommy still knows folks in various ministries, if they're corruptible that could become the main exchange hub in africa >)
the20year: The guys i've talked to in spain are all leaving over Hollande's big tax
mircea_popescu: hollande is taxing spain ?!
the20year: and if you look , holland's tax is just a throwback to mitterand's big tax in the 80s, which saw a pretty large exodus of business leaving the country
mircea_popescu: that's a good one :D
mircea_popescu: france is fucked anyway, i think pretty much everyone realises this by now.
the20year: I think that you could get good traction on african exchanges/wallets if you show the use of savings
the20year: Does germany?
davout: the20year: what do you mean? as in inflation-proof?
the20year: most africans don't save, saving money for the future is a good thing
the20year: financial independence is a good thing
mircea_popescu: germany is fine.
davout: the20year: the way they save is they make kids
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.0008592 = 4.4678 BTC [-] {2}
the20year: Correct
mircea_popescu: they don't actually have enough for any other saving to be worthwhile
mircea_popescu: fat in the kids first, then fat in the cattle, then real estate
the20year: I just get sad every time I hear about more stupidity in africa, i wish someone would do something taht might actually make the general populace act less retarded
mircea_popescu: then capital goods, then capital in cash. a full four degrees away from it yet
the20year: The resources are there
mircea_popescu: the20year the average of africa population is A LOT less retarded than the average of us.
the20year: A guy in my town exports farm equipment to south Africa, it's always depressing to hear how terrible things are getting for farmers there
davout: mircea_popescu: the proof is that they manage to survive in africa
the20year: as far as IQ goes or what?
mircea_popescu: as far as retardation goes.
mircea_popescu: the us folk are merely on the receiving end of a pillage system their grandfathers built and they can't support.
mircea_popescu: as conditions equalize it'll be indeed interesting.
chetty: Africa would do fine if people would stop helping them so much
the20year: Who is helping zimbabwe?
mircea_popescu: about the same people helping detroit.
mircea_popescu: broadly speaking.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
pankkake: many (all?) of the horrible african leaders have been western-educated
kakobrekla: davout i can cover nigeria from somalia just well.
mircea_popescu: omg competition!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 600 @ 0.00039 = 0.234 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: the20year if you're genuinely interested to go into depth re your example, http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/
davout: kakobrekla: it's on the other side!
pankkake: another good point for bitcoin in africa, is that using multiple currencies isn't something new
davout: when i was a kid i wondered why my mum had to buy dollars on the black market
mircea_popescu: you grew up in nigeria ?!
davout: now i get it :-)
mircea_popescu: and are now running a bitcoin exchange ?!
davout: sat on dutch school there for three years
davout: (the french school was too retarded apparently)
mircea_popescu: l’autre grand géant HBO domine le marché avec des séries de qualité, de Newsroom à Games of Thrones
mircea_popescu: oh fucking hell.
mircea_popescu: how is that quality. in what parallel universe. wtf.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1083 @ 0.00037255 = 0.4035 BTC [-] {18}
davout: it's like the onion
pankkake: name comes from le figaro
mircea_popescu: Trop de créativité d’un coup dans un épisode d’une série pourrait provoquer des dommages irréparables
davout: you can see stuff like "terrorist organizations on strike after the government complexifies the emergency plans color codes"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 556 @ 0.00036001 = 0.2002 BTC [-] {5}
pankkake: le gorafi is often close to reality, like the onion
davout: yup
mircea_popescu: complexifies should be a word.
davout: did i just teach mircea_popescu a new english word? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/complexify
mircea_popescu: soo... our good friend the irrelevant twitter authority has failed to actually back his bullshit. surprisingly enough.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i could so have taken your bitcents!!11
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00086214 = 2.6726 BTC [+] {2}
davout: "and are now running a bitcoin exchange ?!" <<< haha, missed this
davout: I LEARNED FROM THE MASTERS
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00086266 = 5.0897 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the forum never discovered this a year or so ago.
ThickAsThieves: I just want to note that briefly working with Jimmy @ cryptocointalk.com has been a pleasure and I like what he's doing with his forum
mircea_popescu: it'd have been funny.
mircea_popescu: forum sux at dox
ThickAsThieves: i'll try to get him in here too
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves which jimmy is this and what exactly do you work on with jimmy ?!
ThickAsThieves: he begins offering advertising opportunities soon
ThickAsThieves: to become a mod and manage the Altcoin thread he created
ThickAsThieves: he even verified I was me!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 201 @ 0.00084543 = 0.1699 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: ;;gettrust jimmyk
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user jimmyk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ThickAsThieves&dest=jimmyk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=jimmyk | Rated since: never
ThickAsThieves: basically he's made no derp noises since i met him
ThickAsThieves: is all i'm saying
mircea_popescu: cool beans.
ThickAsThieves: also stumbled on this blog by mislinking apocalyptic's exchange http://www.x-btc.com/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07689998 = 0.6152 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: tens of thousands of bird-counting volunteers?!
ThickAsThieves: yeha right
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 67 @ 0.07473133 = 5.007 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.07443332 = 0.6699 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00019044 = 0.2857 BTC [+] {6}
ThickAsThieves: unless only an idiot would make an account at wsj.com to comment....
lnovy: from that link it looks like that an idiocy is more than common there...
ThickAsThieves: right, but where are the bitcoin-loving idiots?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00086266 = 1.4665 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07 = 1.12 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10242 @ 0.00085746 = 8.7821 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: i dont even ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6179 @ 0.00017409 = 1.0757 BTC [-] {21}
ThickAsThieves: the irony(?) is that i wish your exchange with him had more substance
ThickAsThieves: but i guess that's the point
mircea_popescu: i wish exactly the same.
mircea_popescu: generally people seem uniquely unprepared to... you know, explain themselves.
mircea_popescu: sad state of affairs.
mircea_popescu: average joe blow banker can't articulate why he doesn't like bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: "dude, i hate it because it's a threat, what do you want from me ?" would be infinitely more respectable than you know... "oh, deflation"
pankkake: lol you quoted me
mircea_popescu: so i did.
pankkake: anyway I feel like you're discovering twitter
pankkake: it's always empty "witty" retorts, never substance
mircea_popescu: ironically, i had an account long long ago, then abandoned it because they did something stupid to the site. don't remember what exactly.
mircea_popescu: and now recently discovered that they fixed it.
mircea_popescu: so... i guess I am rediscovering it.
ThickAsThieves: do you think your style may not serve you in situations like this? as in, you started with farts and piss, and thus gave him an out to start talking like a child?
mircea_popescu: so he failed to establish his ground as a man, will do better as a child ?
ThickAsThieves: well it was easier and maybe youre just a troll
mircea_popescu: the difference between the smart and the stupid is simply that the smart can be stupid. the stupid can't be smart.
mircea_popescu: if we reduce it to the smart are smart, the stupid are stupid then there's no longer any clear hierarchy.
mircea_popescu: sure, maybe i'm just a troll.
mircea_popescu: problem solved ?
ThickAsThieves: some people require ritual in their debate is all i mean, i'm not saying it's justifiable, so much as if you talk to people the "right" way, the substance of the conversation can sometimes be allowed to surface
mircea_popescu: you know what barnacles are right ?
mircea_popescu: this particular ship you propose, which existed cca 1800, has meanwhile been infected by barnacles,
ThickAsThieves: ive injured myself often on them
mircea_popescu: to the point that there's no ship left. just an outline of barnacles.
mircea_popescu: this is what this guy is, and what i meant by "nigger" in that article : he's nothing more substantial than JUST the ritual in question.
mircea_popescu: in such a circumstance attempting to satisfy the ritual becomes an empty exercise in circularity.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2308 @ 0.00085746 = 1.979 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: but you reached out to him for a reason right?
mircea_popescu: "I offered you a chance to redeem your idiocy"
mircea_popescu: honestly.
mircea_popescu: it is literally what it is.
mircea_popescu: like some derp makes some ipo announcement on tardtalk and you or the girl or pankkake (who is just a troll right ?) or kako or anyone says some things
mircea_popescu: and the noob either withdraws the "ipo" (which i've seen at least once) or else goes on a derprampage.
ThickAsThieves: wouldnt that require convincing him of his idiocy at all
mircea_popescu: which i've seen a million times.
mircea_popescu: he convinced himself of it, let him unconvince himself of it too.
pankkake: I give up on the forum btw. it's hopeless.
mircea_popescu: any other approach runs straight into "i'll unconvince myself for five dollah mista"
pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426116.0 people trust "screenshots", get scammed, say "i just wanted to mine"
ThickAsThieves: maybe, something just seems ineffective about it
mircea_popescu: check it out : us supreme court rules that argentina must pay out in fulkl to holdouts
mircea_popescu: while europe is trying to restructure debt.
mircea_popescu: this is so much epic fail.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the most effective point in all of us foreign policy was when kennedy said "fu, we're ghoing to war"
mircea_popescu: in relations with agents you're stuck not being efficient but effectual instead.
ThickAsThieves: maybe use your mpex options problem as an example, it was brought up more than once that you had a problem and it should be solved, but only after preparing the information in a way you could digest would you acknowledge it
ThickAsThieves: maybe not fair to compare a room of smart people i guess
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but i did engage the substance.
mircea_popescu: there's a fundamental difference here in that sense.
ThickAsThieves: well what if i had come to you saying your options are shit cuz they a borked
ThickAsThieves: and thats all
mircea_popescu: the reason people could ever construct their arguments was that i was engaging the substance, and visibly so, which allows for retort.
mircea_popescu: and the reason they bothered is the experience/knowledge that i actually do act under my own authority,
mircea_popescu: so it's not wasted effort.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but that's not at all similar.
ThickAsThieves: i guess youre right
ThickAsThieves: if i had sais
ThickAsThieves: Here’s a challenge : defend the options crap. in public. Against me.
ThickAsThieves: it wouldve been settled even faster
mircea_popescu: we'd have ended up bogged down in the fact that i know who you are
mircea_popescu: he doesn't know who i am.
mircea_popescu: if random guy fell into the chat with that request i'd have probably linked him to jurov's manual.
mircea_popescu: see how he goes from there.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 662 @ 0.00036 = 0.2383 BTC [-] {4}
ThickAsThieves: being in the US, and a background in mktg & visual media, it's hard for me to avoid the desire to cater i guess
mircea_popescu: which is fine in many applications
mircea_popescu: but not in all.
mircea_popescu: no one strategy is good in all situations.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 944 @ 0.00085691 = 0.8089 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: in this case mutual catering is actually a large chunk of the problem.
mircea_popescu: not only and not especially because it inflates such bubbles of self-absorption,
ThickAsThieves: i just enjoy it more when someone is converted and joins us, than when we display one more idiot
mircea_popescu: but imo even more importantly because it fails to resolve tensions with the unknown
mircea_popescu: by which i mean : kids who hussle each other grow strong and confident
mircea_popescu: kids that live in the us schools today, forbidden to as much as touch, grow up with this HORRID fear of everyone and everything
ThickAsThieves: i agree that catering in general is a horrible snowballing thing
mircea_popescu: which is unnatural, to the point it corrupts dogs.
ThickAsThieves: my wife is writing her resignation pr for her job
ThickAsThieves: and i'm like why are you lying?
ThickAsThieves: she feels she must play the game
ThickAsThieves: i feel like playing the game is the problem
mircea_popescu: well, in her defense, women playing the game and men playing the game are different problems.
ThickAsThieves: indeed, her being a woman happens to be one of the reasons she's leaving
mircea_popescu: that's an entirely different style of suck.
ThickAsThieves: old man board just cant come to terms
mircea_popescu: what srsly ?
ThickAsThieves: yeah i never thought i;d see it
ThickAsThieves: but we got old south here still
ThickAsThieves: they just see her as the girl asking for the money
ThickAsThieves: (nonprofit org)
ThickAsThieves: but she's actually the boss
ThickAsThieves: they have secret meetings without her and such
mircea_popescu: hahaha why ?
ThickAsThieves: cuz they wanna be the boss
mircea_popescu: but why ? they're the board no ?
mircea_popescu: is this like a bunch of bored retired people ?
mircea_popescu: those boards suck.
mircea_popescu: she should quit.
ThickAsThieves: nearly doubled her salary too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1146 @ 0.00018 = 0.2063 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: she was doing it partly out of charity
ThickAsThieves: cuz she believed in the org
mircea_popescu: fcking condominium boards. they never go anywhere.
ThickAsThieves: our city is riddled
ThickAsThieves: many of my clients were nonprofits
ThickAsThieves: horrible horrible boards
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 48 @ 0.00527915 = 0.2534 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: where the fuck do you live, florida ?
mircea_popescu: o wait, yes you do huh.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00018 = 0.18 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07299997 = 0.219 BTC [+]
jayk: another jp morgan bank jumper
jayk: d'oh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299997 = 0.146 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i hear jpm is rebranding
ThickAsThieves: rebranding sure is brutal these days!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1005 @ 0.00300034 = 3.0153 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: "throw it all out the window"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00287002 = 0.1148 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 376 @ 0.00281257 = 1.0575 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 255 @ 0.0028002 = 0.7141 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (866 shares, 4.76300000 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (5326 shares, 29.29300000 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (34080 shares, 187.44000000 BTC)
Apocalyptic: "Dimon's hit squad at work right now....If i work at JPM, I would watch my back going to and from work just to be safe"
ThickAsThieves: ask for an office on a lower floor at least
jayk: oh there has been 6 in 3 weeks
asciilifeform: on lower floor people tend to slip and fall onto nailguns
jayk: at least 2 jumperd
jayk: jumpers
mircea_popescu: ;;google jumping jack z80
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.09975999 = 1.4964 BTC [+] {5}
asciilifeform: ;; google hardhat mack
gribble: Hard Hat Mack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Hat_Mack>; Hard Hat Mack Game Review (Apple II) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abOXbHPga30>; C64 Longplay - Hard Hat Mack - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1DLAHY8XeM>
asciilifeform: phun phact: that was where i first heard of 'osha'
mircea_popescu: jesus apple gayzorz
asciilifeform: brother and i played this on our 'Iskra' (xt clone) and combed three different dictionaries to learn what the fuck an osha is
davout: and wtf is an osha?
asciilifeform: ;; google OSHA
gribble: Occupational Safety and Health Administration - Home: <https://www.osha.gov/>; OSHA Law & Regulations: <https://www.osha.gov/law-regs.html>; Workers page - OSHA: <https://www.osha.gov/workers.html>
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.53995999 = 5.3996 BTC [-] {3}
jayk: ;;google custers revenge
gribble: Custer's Revenge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer's_Revenge>; Custer's Revenge - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY2AqKCpGkk>; Custer's Revenge - The 11 Most Racist Video Games - UGO.com: <http://www.ugo.com/games/custers-revenge>
jayk: i had that for the atari 2600
mircea_popescu: did any of you discover that the original civ could be forced into multiplayer mode
mircea_popescu: by altering a bit in the savegame
mircea_popescu: (the one that identified which civilisation you're playing)
asciilifeform: not only that
asciilifeform: you could play as the 'barbarians'
mircea_popescu: that was actually loads of fun
mircea_popescu: tho you couldn't build shit
mircea_popescu: As the mist leaves no scar on the dark green hill so my body leaves no scar on you and never will
mircea_popescu: what the fuck cockless inept lover is this cohen guy
mircea_popescu: who the fuck ever loved a woman and never left any scar on her.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00085799 = 4.1184 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.511 = 2.044 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.511 = 1.022 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07289998 = 1.458 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.07300014 = 0.876 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: he's even wearing google glass
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07499 = 0.5999 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ' he was the winner of the "nigritude ultramarine" search engine optimization contest,[5] and in 2005 he was photographed and printed in the New York Times on June 2, 2005, Fashion Thursday section in a Threadless t-shirt mentioning the web site Goatse.cx.'
asciilifeform: seriously?
ThickAsThieves: "... is a blogger, entrepreneur, and technologist."
ThickAsThieves: “It is important to continually improve Canada’s regime to address emerging risks, including virtual currencies such as Bitcoin, that threaten Canada’s international leadership in the fight against money laundering and terrorist financing,” said Flaherty.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 476 @ 0.00085799 = 0.4084 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00085751 = 9.647 BTC [-] {2}
bones`: So what is going to happen in Ukraine?
nubbins`: mayhem
bones`: Pretty sure they've made it to mayhem
nubbins`: more of the same
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36250 @ 0.00086029 = 31.1855 BTC [+] {4}
Chris_Sabian_: Apocalyptic: are you online?
Apocalyptic: Chris_Sabian_, I am
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: i'm now 0-2 after losing to you and Apocalyptic. D:
nubbins`: ;;later tell truffles CHESS
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: ;;later tell namworld CHESS
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3320 @ 0.00085687 = 2.8448 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform postmodernism. everyone's famous for nothing in particular.
mircea_popescu: hey assets, is cloudhashing.com scam ?
mircea_popescu: or what do we know of it ?
ThickAsThieves: it's been around a long time
ThickAsThieves: i always assumed they stopped mining and started faking it at some point
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 150 @ 0.16230094 = 24.3451 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: there are some stories out there of customer nightmares
ThickAsThieves: but i never saw anything definitive
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.70496334 BTC to 2`122 shares, 80347 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: kinda what i had too
ThickAsThieves: TF endorsed them
ThickAsThieves: and advertised there
ThickAsThieves: Deprived called it a scam
mircea_popescu: did he ever show anything ?
ThickAsThieves: yeah, but TF debunked it
mircea_popescu: well i guess this passes the bar for advertising, what can i say.
ThickAsThieves: a whole thread on the topic :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 150 @ 0.06271483 = 9.4072 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.5111244 = 2.5556 BTC [+] {3}
TomServo: asciilifeform: got a link to the monitor you mentioned?
asciilifeform: TomServo: it wasn't a proper monitor. tablet widget.
asciilifeform: kept around just for that purpose
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0975 = 0.39 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 57 @ 0.16230094 = 9.2512 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: TomServo: simply bought the highest 'dpi' screen sold, for reading scanned crap.
nubbins`: was it an ipad with retina? ;p
nubbins`: i've seen some nice usb monitors for cheap
asciilifeform: those are 2048 x 1536
nubbins`: nod. fine for the size, but if you want something bigger..
asciilifeform: one of the google tablet toys
asciilifeform: 'nexus 10'
nubbins`: ah, yes
nubbins`: i almost bought a nexus <size of phone>
nubbins`: 4, 5, something
asciilifeform: i literally don't need it for anything other than reading djvu scans.
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: way cheaper than an ipad, too
asciilifeform: about the same cost
nubbins`: srsly?
asciilifeform: ~400 usd
nubbins`: <--doesn't keep up on tech much anymore
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 45 @ 0.06250007 = 2.8125 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i think my ipad was ~$700
nubbins`: but this was years ago
nubbins`: and a business expense
asciilifeform: if someone sold a screen with double the pixels for double the cost, i'd have bought that.
asciilifeform: or triple, quadruple, etc.
asciilifeform: djvu is a really spiffy format that uses wavelet compression
ThickAsThieves: the nexus 7 is pretty nice
asciilifeform: and the scans are usually taken in a ridiculously high res to begin with
nubbins`: what's the biggest res that HDMI can support at a reasonable framerate, i wonder?
asciilifeform: ('pdf' for such scans is virtually worthlessly slow)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You didn't get him in channel though.
asciilifeform: my one and only flirt with programming for apple crap was a djvu viewer for ipad (model 1)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo true true
asciilifeform: never published (i decided it was crap, and shortly after, someone beat me to the punch)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok 3k px but how big is it ? 10 inches ?
asciilifeform: diagonally
mircea_popescu: kinda small neh ?
asciilifeform: usable. originals were roughly a4.
mircea_popescu: even so. i make it my policy to never look at small stuff.
asciilifeform: the viewer auto-crops whitespace
mircea_popescu: i don't think i've read type smaller than about half an inch in the past decade
asciilifeform: so it looks more or less like the original page
mircea_popescu: but the original page is what, 12pt ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, everyone : the best thing you can do for your eyes is make all the text big.
mircea_popescu: and never look at small shit, like ever.
mike_c: aren't we all sitting in front of multiple 30" monitors that are blasting our eyes to crap anyway?
ThickAsThieves increases IRC font size
mircea_popescu: mike_c the eyes don't mind all that much just as long as you don't go all spinoza on them
Jere_Jones: Can/Should WOT be used for a business identity instead of the individuals behind that business?
mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones can you construct an example ?
Jere_Jones: Scratch "Can". Obviously it "can".
Jere_Jones: Coinbase (just an example) creates a WOT identity and puts the fingerprint on their website. Happy with the service? Rate it. Unhappy, rate it.
mircea_popescu: seems reasonable.
mircea_popescu: firm, comes from firma, which comes from signature.
mircea_popescu: the wot is the corporation register of bitcoin. whether you're a person or anything else, you're equally a corporation anywya.
Jere_Jones: Would there be an implied social contract to not transfer the identities private key if the business changes ownership?
mircea_popescu: you can effect key changes on the wot.
mircea_popescu: the outgoin gowner would sign in favour of the new owner's key.
Jere_Jones: I'm thinking more along the lines of the new owners not getting the benefit of the previous owners good ratings.
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mircea_popescu: when you buy a business you buy its goodwill too.
diametric: oh man so tempting a 3d printer I've wanted to try for a while can be bought with bitcoin now.
mircea_popescu: sometimes people fuck it up, like dice seems to have fucked up /.
nubbins`: one of my companies has a WoT identity
mircea_popescu: diametric and you want us to talk you out of it ?
nubbins`: to be fair i use it as well, but, shrug
ThickAsThieves: problem for the business is,
Jere_Jones: thanks
ThickAsThieves: people are way mor elikely to leave negative feedback
nubbins`: sure, but that's true of individuals too
nubbins`: how many people have a dozen "-10 FAGGOT SCAMMER" ratings?
ThickAsThieves: not sure i agree
mircea_popescu: what is this, php operators ?
mircea_popescu: everything's > than everything else ?
diametric: mircea_popescu: yes its probably wise
diametric: I've run out of real estate to put them
diametric: until I build out my garage into a machine shop this spring
mircea_popescu: diametric ok so i'll talk you out of it for a modest fee of 1 btc
nubbins`: diametric: for the sake of a differing opinion, i think you should purchase the luxury item you don't have room for
diametric: mircea_popescu: haha
diametric: nubbins`: i like your style
nubbins` buffs fingernails on lapel
mircea_popescu: didn't blow on them first, go straight to jale
mircea_popescu: do not pass go do not collect 1 btc fee.
nubbins`: joke's on you, my lapel is covered in petroleum jelly
mircea_popescu: diametric you could probably put it in the bedroom anyway
mircea_popescu: instead of a double bed
mircea_popescu: which is really not needed
mircea_popescu: you could have two cots
mircea_popescu: or bunk beds
diametric: haha
nubbins`: anyway regarding this growing weed business, it's probably not a great way to make money. so regulation, much red tape
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the co licenses are worth about 10x what they cost atm.
kakobrekla: based on what
nubbins`: are they xferable?
mircea_popescu: what ppl'd pay to get one
mircea_popescu: well, it's iffy.
nubbins`: iffy is a precursor to no
bones`: diametric, did you say what you planned on printing?
mircea_popescu: depends. people sell ips for instance.
nubbins`: the other thing is that all this shit is still 100% illegal on the federal level
diametric: bones`: lots of things, though i already have 9 3d printers
diametric: wait i think its 9, i lost count
mircea_popescu: the entire point is the destruction of the federal level.
nubbins`: DEA bandaleros can technically (if not practically) swoop in whenever they wish
diametric: nubbins`: i hope they would
bones`: Then you definitely should buy another, who has 9 of something? Have 10.
nubbins`: why? fuck the dea
diametric: nubbins`: not for the reasons you think
nubbins`: do tell
diametric: They need to do that, so someone with time and money can challenge that shit
mircea_popescu: but for different reasons altogether ?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, story of my life
mircea_popescu: diametric let them consolidate a few years first.
nubbins`: plenty of money then
diametric: yeah
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: I don't remember, but I didn't think Apocalyptic was in the tournament.
nubbins`: there's a guy in my city who has a massive hydroponic lettuce operation
diametric: I feel like the feds plan is just to loom over the industry to cast doubt on it, but only rarely try to enforce it at the federal level.
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: then my record remains 0-1
mircea_popescu: diametric the federal plan is to try and survive.
diametric: its fucking ridiculous marijuana is a schedule 1 drug
mircea_popescu: which is difficult already
nubbins`: and i know of several people who currently have grow licenses from health canada
nubbins` thinks
nubbins`: city bylaws would realistically be the only other obstacle
Apocalyptic: how come i'm not in the tournament ?
nubbins`: but i mean, just move the farm outside the city. 15 minute drive and you're in the sticks
nubbins`: security costs plummet then, as well
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic i thinkj they started it like 6 weeks ago
nubbins`: at least a month ago, likely more
nubbins`: anyway
Apocalyptic: I remember playing BingoBoingo well before that
nubbins`: you're looking at this from the perspective of buying a license and selling it, not from the perspective of actually financing a legal grow-op
KRS-One: city bylaws = ordinances
nubbins`: correct?
KRS-One: .bait
KRS-One leaves
nubbins`: .wait
mircea_popescu: nubbins` assets are assets.
mircea_popescu: seems it's a better deal than buy a miner, which is worth less in time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00085597 = 3.7663 BTC [-]
jcpham: aww snap we 'minin
jcpham: in the -assetsd
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic gotta ask BingoBoingo then, he's been butchering the championship management.
nubbins`: well, if you feel like doing it in .ca, you know a canadian who can wrangle things. got about 6 months to make a killing before competition pushes profit down to a minimum
mircea_popescu: it's an entire apparatus, not as simple as one guy sadly.
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: We played well before the tournament started I believe. It was this thing started on a whim as a four player round robin. truffles nubbins` and myself were in MP's spec I believe and then Namworld was online at the exact right time. Since we need some sort of three way tiebreaker if nubbins` loses to everyone... Fuck it, five way round robin.
nubbins`: oh, totally, you'd need a dozen or so people at the least
nubbins`: i've got a brown thumb anyway, the best i'd be able to do is pull together a team on your behalf
Apocalyptic: alright
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: "if" i lose to everyone
nubbins`: such delicate wording ;D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.063 = 0.756 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10890 @ 0.00085652 = 9.3275 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6323 @ 0.00085477 = 5.4047 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Well, truffles is in this thing.
nubbins`: on another note: "Pussy Riot members attacked with whips by Cossack militia in Sochi"
nubbins`: hahaha
nubbins`: don't even need to watch it
nubbins`: my sides
jcpham: water futures will one day be a hot market
jcpham: fresh water speculation
mod6: ahh cool, never noticed the "check GPG key quality" link on the WoT page for a certain registered person, it links to nosuchlabs.com's collider :)
nubbins`: that reminds me, i need to vault some backups
benkay: glacierrr
benkay: dude youse guys aws is so seductively awesome
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.07127777 = 0.6415 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: blob store? we got it. presigned urls for user content? we got it. cdn? yup. servers. auto-backing-up database servers. load balancers.
benkay: still want my own metal
kakobrekla: zomg "i believe that decentralization in the central theme of the century." dude, it aint funny!
nubbins`: generally i lose a little bit of interest in a sentence when it starts with "I"
nubbins`: and then a larger chunk if "I" is followed by "believe"
nubbins`: if it wasn't for peripheral vision, i wouldn't know what the rest of the sentence was beyond "decentralization"
kakobrekla: well the question went "do you believe that. ..."
kakobrekla: or maybe it didnt
kakobrekla: who knows at this point.
nubbins`: nobody D:
nubbins`: "central theme of the century"
nubbins`: i believe that he doesn't know what three of those words mean
benkay: idea combinatorics
benkay: thinking is hard to begin with
ThickAsThieves: what were previous century themes?
nubbins`: combinatorics, great field of study
benkay: but man you start /stacking/ ideas and people just trip over their own feet
nubbins`: makes you go a bit googly-eyed after a while tho
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: "centralization", i guess ;(
ThickAsThieves: we've been building things for so long, let's change it up!
nubbins`: or perhaps "hopefully we will survive long enough to reproduce"
nubbins`: that's probably the overarching theme
nubbins`: but hey, isn't that just a different way of saying "decentralization"? ;D
ThickAsThieves: "do not block or slow down access to any lawful content on the Internet."
ThickAsThieves: providers being recruiting as enforcers again
nubbins`: lawful content
nubbins`: seems pretty cut-and-dry
ThickAsThieves: recruited*
ThickAsThieves: yeah like weed dispensers?
ThickAsThieves: or maybe bitcoin miners?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000001 = 0.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 182 @ 0.0050309 = 0.9156 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 45 @ 0.06601487 = 2.9707 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00085568 = 6.332 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: Lawsky AMA 12:30PM EST tomorrow --- https://twitter.com/BenLawsky/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 29 @ 0.063 = 1.827 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 6 minutes and 17 seconds
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 50 @ 0.05830048 = 2.915 BTC [-] {11}
cads: hey guys, suppose a business is consulting me to provide them a fleet of 5 3d printers (which can be bought for around $4K a piece)
cads: What's the appropriate consulting fee, assuming I'm additionally training some workers and teaching them how to use the tech?
benkay: 2k/wk
benkay: ;;calc 2000/wo
gribble: Error: 'wo' is not a defined function.
benkay: ;;calc 2000/40
benkay: nah. 6k.
cads: okay, 2k a week while we're there doing the thang
cads: or more!
asciilifeform: re "do not block or slow down access to any lawful content on the Internet." << http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/netad.jpg
ThickAsThieves: that's a joke graphic though right?
asciilifeform: joke's getting less funny, though.
pankkake: some French mobile ISP did a similar thing
pankkake: and most mobile ISPs are doing a lot of crap
diametric: asciilifeform: I've seen that going around.
diametric: asciilifeform: what appears to be happening now, is verizon and comcast are pushing netflix through their already saturated links
diametric: and then going "thats just how the internet works, we're not throttling it!"
VirtaAssets: you can contribute to the Satoshi Project to receive a guaranteed 120% payout (34.1% funded on round 49) : http://cur.lv/7lc9r
diametric: and by netflix i mean amazon aws
VirtaAssets: I was not on private ? sorry :\
asciilifeform: spambot with built-in apology!
diametric: haha
asciilifeform: who said there is nothing new under the sun!
VirtaAssets: ignore my message
diametric: VirtaAssets: tell me more
kakobrekla: <VirtaEu> yes, you can contribute to the Satoshi Project to receive a guaranteed 120% payout (34.1% funded on round 49) : http://cur.lv/7lc9r
kakobrekla: <kakobrekla> or you can fuck off
kakobrekla: <VirtaEu> oups, I was not on private :\
kakobrekla: <VirtaEu> sorry
diametric: VirtaAssets: do you have any multi-level marketing opportunities?
VirtaAssets: have a look
pankkake: obvious spam trick is obvious
VirtaAssets: It works
diametric: VirtaAssets: it works! wow! tell me more about how it works
VirtaAssets: join me on private diam
diametric: let me get some popcorn first
pankkake: you send me 1.2 BTC and I'll send you 1 BTC
diametric: no no no, you invest 10 BTC, and get a monthly 0.1BTC return
asciilifeform: diametric: not unlike mining co.
ThickAsThieves: <asciilifeform> nsa settles lawsuit with comic nsa: http://cryptome.org/2014/02/mccall-v-nsa-dhs.pdf /// this is awesome
mike_c: w00t, $500 from the nsa
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if i could get away with selling NSA original logo shirts as parody too
ThickAsThieves: "are you trying to say the NSA is not a joke?"
asciilifeform: that cheque has got to be even more valuable then a Knuth one
asciilifeform: the bureaucrats got a good deal for that 500. case never went to trial, and so they'll get to pull this shit as many times as they like.
cads: wow my business partner sent me the email correspondence with the client
cads: he managed not to mention that he has a partner who's loaning him the computronium base of the business
Apocalyptic: cads, was there some "niggers.txt" attachment ?
cads: and he sent his resume
cads: for giggles :)
cads: the client thinks that it would be a good idea to instead retain my friend for 25 an hour while he helps them set up
cads: and possibly a permanent position
cads: I think if we manage this we can get more than that
cads: for now we're negotiating a first job - we're going to print a gun stock for around $700
diametric: print a gun stock?
cads: it's a prototype to testing fit and ergonomics
the20year2: Pretty expensive for a gun stock
the20year2: Unless it's free floating, unique and all that jazz
kakobrekla: can you also print a laughing stock?
the20year2: I imagine so
cads: I'm not sure why they would not simply mill it from wood
the20year2: Most companies do , or they use PIM to make one from say zytel
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07 = 0.42 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00085662 = 6.7245 BTC [+]
the20year2: But, as you said if it's a prototype it might make sense to test it before using. Granted I don't undersand how you came to $700 if that fee doesn't include the design work too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 6 @ 0.0561 = 0.3366 BTC [-] {3}
diametric: the20year2: 3D printing thats a bit high, but for traditional CNC its not.
diametric: the20year2: creating the toolpath from the design can be just as difficult as the design itself.
the20year2: 3d printing or cnc?
ThickAsThieves: sounds like the embroidery business
the20year2: For cnc it could likely be fine, for 3d printing i don't think it'd be right
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 30 @ 0.05180004 = 1.554 BTC [-] {7}
ThickAsThieves: with an extra dimension :)
the20year2: Big cost on the t
diametric: the20year2: yeah thats what i said
cads: we're figuring 200-300 for set up, 500-600 for printing.
diametric: most of the toolpath work for 3D printing is entirely automated
the20year2: The stock will be then creating the toolpath if they go wood, molds for dies ,ect
the20year2: I need to get into that business
cads: it's going to be a ultra tall format print and we're expecting it to fail at least once :P
the20year2: Are you talking full length stock, say 18"-24" long or just the end stock for like an AR/AK that's 6" or so
diametric: cads: FDM?
cads: yeah
diametric: yeah thats way expensive dude, but hey if you can get it, good on you
cads: right now they use a STL machine in italy
cads: and fly out a guy to check the prototype
cads: I think they want to see what a $1000 3d printer can do
diametric: If it were like an objet, then yeah $700 probably isn't enough.
cads: and want some local guys or indeed some inhouse capability and staff
diametric: The resins objet uses are stupid expensive
cads: objet would be at least 3500
the20year2: would seem cheaper to me then to create dies and just PIM it
diametric: the20year2: creating the die would cost a lot more than $700
diametric: I guess if you had some cheap sintered dies made
cads: I'm not going to lie, 3500 is a figure I pulled from my rear
diametric: that only would last a few runs it would be
cads: but you have less lead time and you're able to print really unmanufacturable geometry
asciilifeform: anyone recall the stories of u.s. soldiers in vietnam making fun of their plastic stocks?
greenspan_fan: yes, didn't they have to switch back?
cads: Hmm, it would be nice if we could print with fiber reinforced plastic.
the20year2: My dad was told by quite a few guys they hated their stocks
cads: I'm kinda worried our printer won't be able to do it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.513 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: I am just waiting for a $500 carbon fiber printer to show up on kickstarter
cads: the thing is a piece of crap
asciilifeform: pretty sure plastic stocks are SOP to this day
cads: and the control software is really lame
the20year2: For most firearms, yes
cads: luckily the parts we have to print are pretty printable
asciilifeform: i always thought this was odd. how do you club a man with a plastic stock
the20year2: There's a tube inside the aluminum stock that runs to the end of it
greenspan_fan: repeatedly?
benkay: "hold still! i must bonk you gently!"
the20year2: And you're not supposed to club someone with the gun, you're supposed to stab with the pointy knife on the other end
the20year2: Or , if you're gonna club someone, use the barrel, not the butt
diametric: greenspan_fan: theres CF infused PLA already
diametric: greenspan_fan: its junk
diametric: CF just isn't something you really 3D print with
greenspan_fan: too deformable, or what?
the20year2: There are some really good materials coming out soon that have awesome tensile strength
asciilifeform: i recall the relevant u.s. manual explicitly forbidding clubbing with the business end.
asciilifeform: bent barrels.
diametric: greenspan_fan: no benefit, any FDM style printer is still going to suffer from a weakness on the layers
diametric: greenspan_fan: whether or not its CF
the20year2: Those barrels are made out of steel proofed to 200,000PSI , you're not gonna bend them by clubbing someone
greenspan_fan: you don't have to bend it much to wreck it
the20year2: It just isn't possible to bend the barrel of a modern firearm
asciilifeform: the20year2: proofed by firing. directionally even stress, from inside.
asciilifeform: it isn't a crowbar
the20year2: or to damage it by a human being clubbing somoene with it
asciilifeform: and grunts are, afaik, severely punished for using it as such
the20year2: In a life or death situation i'm sure they don't care too much
the20year2: But at any rate, the military still issues bayonets to soldiers
the20year2: and those work typically much better than clubs
asciilifeform: manual for m16 (downloadable!) actually had a chapter on how to destroy the piece, if capture is imminent - instructed to scatter parts, and bend the barrel by jumping on it...
the20year2: Would be much easier just to separate the BCG from the bolthead and just throw it as far as you can
asciilifeform: if i recall that was part of the recipe.
the20year2: That would render the gun inoperable and virtually nothing usable for the enemy to use
asciilifeform: well, a useful barrel
asciilifeform: presumably valuable
the20year2: Depends
the20year2: Bending the gas tube would be pretty easy, and could potentially plug the barrel up in a way it wouldn't operate correctly in teh future
asciilifeform: all of this being rather funny in light of the fact that the vietnamese wouldn't pick these up, even when brand new.
the20year2: Not against us , but they used the heck out of them against the CHinese and conitnue to use them today
asciilifeform: [insert obligatory armchair generals' 'ak vs m16' flamewar here.]
the20year2: the AK and M16 are two different guns. One is for people who are educated and trained, the other is for everyone else
the20year2: I love my AK, but I can't say it's the gun I want to use if the world ends
the20year2: Additionally, up until the Sino-vietnam conflict, the Chinese doctrine was to issue everyone with T53 bolt action rifles because they were 'more reliable' than the AK
asciilifeform: when this is said, i always picture a game-like scene, where a godlike narrator proclaims 'world has ended! choose your small arms'
the20year2: I'm sure it won't happen like that, but the gun within grabbing ditance, ready to go in my house is a colt AR15, not my AK
asciilifeform: my understanding is that people generally get whatever's lying around in the ruins of whichever great 20th c. empire they happen to live in.
the20year2: Depends on the scenario
the20year2: Plenty of empires or smaller players have had time in the past to prepare for wars, ect. Many people in many nations have had time to prepare for civil wars
the20year2: The leadup to the yugoslovian wars saw some sides doing quite well with armament programs.....the ones that lost didn't prepare
asciilifeform: general rule for 'partizan,' historically, is to stick to the caliber of the prospective enemy.
asciilifeform: whose supplies you are to be plundering.
the20year2: That usually works quite well
asciilifeform: i'm told that yugoslavia still produces german 8mm rounds
the20year2: Yes, they still have the dies that the USSR plundered from Germany
asciilifeform: (well, what's left of yugoslavia)
the20year2: The USSR broke up much of the fabrication equipment from Eastern Germany and sold or gave it to client states
mod6: bought my buddy a mauser once, thing bucks like a mule.
asciilifeform: there are russian factories still running various machine tools with nazi eagles stamped on them.
the20year2: Much of the 8mm/mauser equipment ended up in Romania and Yugoslovia. The MG42 tooling ended up entirely almost in Yugoslovia, specifically the zavasta plant in Serbia. They still produce the MG42 and K98 on original german equipment
asciilifeform: 'works, why fix it'
asciilifeform: zastava?
the20year2: ascii, to a point yes, but the bulk of it was given to USSR client states
asciilifeform: interesting to picture future 'apocalyptic' war fought with ww2 arms.
the20year2: In future wars there will be plenty of ww1 era firearms used
the20year2: There are many, many firearms from WW2 and pre-ww2 eras still being used in most of the middle east, africa and asia
the20year2: And of all ww2 weapons, a great deal were made during ww1,
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 95 @ 0.0055 = 0.5225 BTC
asciilifeform: just rubs in the point that nothing fundamentally new has happened in the field since those times.
the20year2: And if you got surplus from ww1, means there's a good chance you have pre-1900 weapons too.
the20year2: Not really
the20year2: my favorite example is the colt potato digger
the20year2: Buy one without a ton of permits in the US and it's jail time
the20year2: Even though it's 120 years old, and made with hand tools
asciilifeform: heh, yet another reason for the immortality of vintage small arms
asciilifeform: people tend to bury or otherwise hoard them
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 4 @ 0.055 = 0.22 BTC [+] {2}
the20year2: That's why I collect them. There's something fun about handing a 1895 issued rifle to a person and reminding them it's effective to 1,000 yards
the20year2: There are few if any modern arms that are vastly superior to those made during ww2. Sure things are lighter today, but that's it
asciilifeform: people in the 'iron curtain' lands still often find 'grandfather's schmeisser' in the attic, etc.
the20year2: The US M240 GPMG is based off the BAR which was designed in 1918
the20year2: People do that all over the world still :)
the20year2: I always hear about hand grenades being found locally of ww2 vintage
asciilifeform: russian folk rhyme: 'Дедушка в поле гранату нашел. Взял он ее, к сельсовету пошел. Дернул колечко, кинул в окно. Дедушка старый — ему все равно.'
asciilifeform: 'grandfather found a grenade in the field. over to the town hall he went. pulled the pin, threw in window. grandpa is old, he doesn't care.'
the20year2: i just hate seeing people find and turn in $30,000 guns for destruction
asciilifeform: idiots will turn in $30mil rembrandts if those are banned one day.
mike_c: BingoBoingo: is there a btc line-betting sportsbook that isn't a total scam?
BingoBoingo: mike_c: I've found bitbook.biz reliable, but who knows if they will continue to be reliable.
mike_c: thanks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250 @ 0.00085662 = 0.2142 BTC [+]
mike_c: bitbet needs moar links. where's that list of proposed/rejected bets?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.00086158 = 0.7754 BTC [+]
pankkake: is there a way to download the bitcoin-otc wot db?
mike_c: yes.
pankkake: can I have a more detailed answer?
mike_c: yeah, sry. in the arguments the other day mp said the wot can be backed up by anyone (similar to mpex db). that is my basis for "yes". idk how, but it should not be fruitless to keep looking for how.
pankkake: yes, that's exactly why I was looking into doing that :)
mike_c: hehe
Apocalyptic: you'll probably have to write a custom spider
benkay: hey nanotube where do you stuff the wot backups again?
pankkake: that's what I feared. well, I'll eventually write a lib to explore it anyway
benkay: nanotube keeps backups in public, i knew where they were at one point. that memory block has been gc'd for more useful things tho
jurov: benkay, you don't have virtual memory?
nanotube: pankkake: ^
jurov: with swap configured :D
pankkake: thanks!
ozbot: Index of /otc
nanotube: np hf. doing anyhting interesting with it?
Apocalyptic: will backup that too
pankkake: maybe to link users between services, but for now just backups
benkay: jurov: i do have virtual memory, but swap is extremely manual
Mats_cd03: the20year2: r u cute in a uniform
ThickAsThieves: "According to our own internal audit we have never had a 2FA account compromised. We offer a BTC10 reward to anyone that can repeatedly prove that he can hack an account which has 2FA enabled." ~Havelock Investments
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19028 @ 0.00086158 = 16.3941 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: goodness 10btc you say
benkay: virtual memory pointer to web of trust backups updated: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/02/19_bitcoin-otc-web-of-trust-backups.html
ozbot: Havelock Investments - Exchange feedback/comments
jurov: *benkay swaps out heavily ;)
benkay: *noise of giant blocks getting shuffled around inefficiently*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.525 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: forum is advertising this http://makebtc.org/
mike_c: un-squickily. what a word :)
diametric: ponzi schemes, ponzi schemes everywhere
benkay: mike_c: thanks
benkay: mike_c: throwaway pun of the day ;)
benkay: "GET YER BITCOIN PONZI SCHEMES UP AND RUNNIN BOYS WE GOT A NEW CROP OF SUCKERS IN TOWN"
mike_c: i do like this new breed though that is upfront about the ponzi-ness.
benkay: ya well no shame in it really
benkay: like the lotto or anything with expected -ev outcomes
mike_c: no shame if you are upfront about it. some shame if you say its not and it is.
benkay: the scam is in lying about the reality
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00086218 = 3.966 BTC [+]
mike_c: yeah
diametric: good ponzi schemes always pay off for early investors
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00086345 = 9.6706 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: someone make an IPO that invests for 1 profit period in every ponzi that appears PDF - Ponzi Destruction Fund
benkay: man that's a risky play
benkay: lots of human in the loop there
ThickAsThieves: might be an interesting study across all bitcoin securities, how much would have been made/lost if you bought into every bitcoin IPO and sold the day after it's first payout/dividend
KRS-One: isnt it safe to say they'd all be a loss
ThickAsThieves: not at all
CiPi: here you go girls www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iGIcN4UFEA
diametric: KRS-One: good ponzi's last a while, and actually have ROI for early investors
diametric: its how a ponzi needs to work. If the ponzi shuts down immediately after it opens, its not really a ponzi, its just an regular scam to steal your money.
ThickAsThieves: search for AB-129
ThickAsThieves: to see details of the bill and votes
ozbot: Bill Search
ThickAsThieves: "A person shall not issue or put in circulation, as money, anything but the lawful money of the United States. Nothing in this section shall prohibit the issuance and use of alternative currency that is redeemable for lawful money of the United States or that has value based on the value of lawful money of the United States but a person shall not be required to accept alternative
ThickAsThieves: currency. "
dexX7: and that's from 2013? weren't there news recently that alt currencies are illegal and this shall change in the future?
diametric: the last part is probably the most relevant
ThickAsThieves: well it was created jan 2013
diametric: Theres also a subtle distinction. So long as goods and services sold for bitcoin, calculate their cost in bitcoin based on USD, all is fine.
ThickAsThieves: theyve been editing it i think
diametric: But if I decouple the USD value from bitcoin, and begin using it based on my own interpretations (or the community at large) then I'd be in violation I guess.
ThickAsThieves: how can one prove decoupling (or even care)
ThickAsThieves: like i do escrows for .2btc
ThickAsThieves: aside from legalities revolvong around escrow
ThickAsThieves: what if i dont list USD
ThickAsThieves: or adjust with fluctuation
dexX7: you read it as something like "you are fine with accepting btc as long as you also accept usd"?
davout: you guys seem to be confusing redeemable, and exchangeable
diametric: ThickAsThieves: individually its hard to prove that kind of decoupling.
diametric: but in a community at large, would be easier.
davout: "shall prohibit the issuance and use of alternative currency that is redeemable for lawful money"
diametric: you forgot the word not
ThickAsThieves: of course i do adjust my rates, but not often enough to be remotely "coupled"
diametric: davout: It says you can exchange bitcoin for money, and you can exchange goods and services for bitcoin so long as that bitcoin value is based in USD.
ThickAsThieves: seems odd
diametric: ie I want to sell you a $500 phone for BTC. I figure out how much BTC is worth about $500, thats fine. If I decide based on other factors then I wouldn't be.
diametric: ThickAsThieves: Its like a sleeper
ThickAsThieves: what if i offer 5% discount to bitcoin buyers?
diametric: its something that realistically won't come into play until Bitcoin becomes large enough that very large communities (in the US) begin transacting solely in bitcoin
davout: diametric: where does it say that ?
ThickAsThieves: what if i charge a service fee to accept bitcoin?
ThickAsThieves: or if i use a rate convenient to me
diametric: davout: "Nothing in this section shall prohibit the issuance and use of alternative currency that is redeemable for lawful money of the United States or *that has value based on* the value of lawful money of the United States but a person shall not be required to accept alternative currency."
diametric: davout: the "value based on" part.
diametric: The very first line prohibits an entirely alternative currency from existing, period.
diametric: The second allows it so long as its coupled to USD
ThickAsThieves: you could also read that as "it's legal until the fed says it isnt"
diametric: ThickAsThieves: you can read everything like that
ThickAsThieves: any state law at least
diametric: really any law at this point
ThickAsThieves: yeah but saying so makes you an asshole
davout: diametric: i read it as "issuing alternative currency based on the usd isn't forbidden"
diametric: of course, they have to maintain the theater
diametric: davout: thats exactly what i said.
ThickAsThieves: it says a lot more than that
davout: diametric: which does't imply that alternative currency based on the usd is forbidden
diametric: davout: If the alternative currency is based on the USD its okay. So you can buy/sell with bitcoin so long as the value you give to bitcoin is coupled to USD you're fine.
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if we're all interpreting it wrong,
davout: diametric: i didn't see any part where it said it *had* to be, it says it isn't forbidden
asciilifeform: the correct engineering philosophy here is to treat law the way satellite designers treat cosmic rays.
ThickAsThieves: and it's legalizing state-issued crypto
pankkake: you're probably all wrong
ThickAsThieves: to represent dollars
diametric: davout: lets break this down.
diametric: "A person shall not issue or put in circulation, as money, anything but the lawful money of the United States." first sentence.
davout: diametric: it doesn't say it's the *only* allowed form of alt currency
diametric: Bans alternative currency.
davout: nope
ThickAsThieves: note: they specifically edited it to say "person" instead of "corporation, flexible purpose corporation, association, or individual"
diametric: No it does, the first sentence clearly states if you put into circulation as money anything but USD, you're in violation.
diametric: Then the second sentence begins making exceptions.
CiPi: diametric; what r u doing here man? :)
davout: i'm putting it in circulation as valueless tokens
diametric: CiPi: ...do I know you?
davout: it *might* be used to outlaw mining, but nothing else
ozbot: Havelock Investments - Exchange feedback/comments
diametric: davout: I'm missing how you think the first sentence doesn't ban using something as money other than USD.
davout: what if i told you bitcoin was a commodity
asciilifeform: let them outlaw farting, as well.
ThickAsThieves: it is a commodity
diametric: CiPi: I'm at a loss
ThickAsThieves: it's also a currency and a platform
davout: case dismissed, a money requires an issuer, a central bank if you will
davout: it's used as a currency
davout: but it has the properties of a commodity
diametric: davout: I see what you mean
ThickAsThieves: like bottles of detergent for drugs
davout: diametric: good
diametric: davout: but the second sentence outlaws anyone using bitcoin if its not tied to USD.
davout: nope
davout: since the first sentence didn't outlaw bitcoin, the second sentence is just making exceptions
davout: it can't follow that the second sentence prohibits bitcoin
diametric: the first sentence outlawed the putting of bitcoin into circulation.
davout: or free barter of a commodity
diametric: the second says how it can be used
CiPi: diametric; i think you loose the train man. :)
diametric: ;;ident cipi
gribble: Nick 'cipi', with hostmask 'CiPi!~cip@unaffiliated/cipi', is not identified.
davout: no it didn't, like i said, bitcoin is a commodity
davout: the point is that this whole thing is irrelevant to bitcoin
davout: as much as in theory than in practice
diametric: davout: give me an example it is relevant to then
davout: diametric: what?
diametric: I'm curious what its relevant too if not bitcoin, or diametric-tokens.
diametric: What currency would meet the legal criteria of this legislation
davout: diametric: i have no idea, does it have to be relevant to something?
davout: diametric: it's relevant to the liberty reserve usd for example i'd say
diametric: davout: It doesn't, but those that enforce it will find something it is relevant too, and you're kidding yourself if you think bitcoin wouldn't be it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00298868 = 0.5977 BTC [+] {6}
diametric: Whats the legal definition of a commodity anyway?
davout: saying that law enforcement will fuck you regardless of what the law says is orthogonal to the thing being debated
diametric: I thought it had to have an inherent use
ThickAsThieves: yknow they do explain the bill in the PDS
ThickAsThieves: "This bill makes clarifying changes to current law to ensure that various forms of alternative currency such as digital currency, points, coupons, or other objects of monetary value do not violate the law when those methods are used for the purchase of goods and services or the
ThickAsThieves: transmission of payments."
davout: diametric: distributed timestamping is what blockchain is about, voting, you name it
ThickAsThieves: check the Bill Analysis tab
ThickAsThieves: for the rest
asciilifeform: contemplating design of btc-related anything while assuming sympathetic (or even grudgingly-cooperative) bureaucrats is like designing tanks and assuming a cooperative enemy.
diametric: davout: alright I'll concede then it may not apply
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00086219 = 5.3887 BTC [-]
davout: diametric: the whole point is that no matter the way you put it, banning bitcoin and pretending to be a democracy are mutually exclusive
ThickAsThieves: for some reason the Coinye story is in that pdf too
diametric: davout: I'm not disagreeing with that
ThickAsThieves: there's even a joke
ThickAsThieves: "Facing legal action, creators of COINY have ended the project and COINYE is now Lost in the World, but may have been nothing more than a Dark Fantasy."
the20year2: Which bill? The NY one?
ozbot: Bill Search
ThickAsThieves: then search for AB-129
Bugpowder: Time to update the MPOEbot settlement price index?
ThickAsThieves: winkdex?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00086219 = 3.1901 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.07 = 0.98 BTC [+]
the20year2: So what's your synopsis TAT?
ThickAsThieves: Winkdex is calculated by blending the trading prices in U.S. dollars for the top three (by volume) qualified Bitcoin Exchanges*
ThickAsThieves: * As of February 7, 2014, Mt.Gox placed a "pause on all [BTC] withdrawal requests” in addition to a continued "back-log of [USD] withdrawals”. As a result, it is no longer a qualified exchange for the Winkdex calculation.
ThickAsThieves: i dont need to make a synopsis, they already did
ThickAsThieves: it's in the Bill Analysis tab
the20year2: 'qualified'
pankkake: wankdex
davout: ThickAsThieves: i see two PDFs
davout: the one i'm reading mentions dogecoin
pankkake: by the way, I'd use other currencies converted to USD, too. otherwise, you're ignoring perfectly working exchanges
dexX7: nice chart
ThickAsThieves: one pdf is just a newer version of the other i think
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.07252099 = 0.7252 BTC [-] {5}
the20year2: localbtc price is pretty nice
ThickAsThieves: why not call it Windex?
FabianB_: Bugpowder: looks like it's missing a 24h avg
ThickAsThieves: The Industrial Strength Index
Bugpowder: FabianB_: tru
Bugpowder: TSLA
Bugpowder: oh my
dexX7: lol
ThickAsThieves: did they announce already?
Bugpowder: shorts penetrated again.
ThickAsThieves: i sold already tho :(
FabianB_: same problem as with the coindesk index
Bugpowder: I still need to get my bitcar
Bugpowder: I need to pickup the license plate from CA DMV...
ThickAsThieves: wait did tesla even announce earnings yet?
Bugpowder: up $30 AH... so??
the20year2: oh wow, i din't realize tesla was at $200
the20year2: good thing I bought at $135
ThickAsThieves: i played the waves for a bit, but ended up with cash
ThickAsThieves: made a few thousand
ThickAsThieves: was hoping to get caught long
FabianB_: Bugpowder: oh and: "Subscription to the API for Winkdex will be available soon."
ThickAsThieves: or Viindex, thatd be better
TomServo: lol they couldn't be bothered to have unique 'about us' descriptions?
ThickAsThieves: theyd have to be unique!
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if they only screw twins
ThickAsThieves: hanging out at Doublemint HQ to pick up chicks
Bugpowder: TSLA
TomServo: "You know, when I see those two twins on that Doublemint commercial? I'm not thinking of gum."
kakobrekla: is it a gun?
ThickAsThieves: i invited the cryptocointalk.com guy to IRC but he says he's swamped with working on the forum
ozbot: Still Report #190 Calif Assembly Passes Cryptos Unanimously - YouTube
dexX7: didn't watch it yet
ThickAsThieves: says he'll check out the WoT
kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves who is dat guy
ThickAsThieves: tryin to john galt everyone into b-a
ThickAsThieves: jimmyk, seems to be putting the work in
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00495 = 0.2475 BTC [-]
deadweasel: that's a fine cork.
r3wt: ;;bcauth r3wt
gribble: Request successful for user r3wt, hostmask r3wt!add82c3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.216.44.61. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:43ad94451c81549176cd11b6b741f22d8795f925a6f42e150382b652
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.10031999 = 1.0032 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00086081 = 18.1631 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 20 @ 0.0055 = 0.11 BTC
the20year2: We just posted a contract update on havelock
kakobrekla: oh changed the contract !?
kakobrekla: thats neat.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00086236 = 4.9155 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: mp can we do that too?
kakobrekla: i wanna take some things out
benkay: wat ams even contract
benkay: hey the20year2 what changes did you make?
kakobrekla: basically just grep for any utf8 char and replace it with space
kakobrekla: that will do
benkay: "we agree to!"
benkay: sold.
r3wt: anyone wanna buy some bitcoin-scrypt?
kakobrekla: what is a bitcoin-scrypt
r3wt: just bitcoin with the scrypt algorithm, you never heard of it?
ozbot: Twitter / cavirtex: Our site will be going down ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0631 = 0.1262 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: is bitcoin-scrypt compatible with my IP address?
jurov: no it's only compatible with ipv4 and ipv6
kakobrekla: anyone here selling those too?
the20year2: benkay: we're bidding on 3 different properties
the20year2: kakobrekla: it was a update on bidding on 3 different properties that we're looking at/conisdering with the IPO cash
r3wt: i'll throw in a dusty crackrock. its kinda old and stale but it'll getcha hi
kakobrekla: is that rock compatible with my ip address?
jurov offers r3wt bitcoin-rot13 for it
r3wt decliens
kakobrekla: every fool would decline that, bitcoin-rot13 is worth only as much as bitcoin-plaintext
jurov: as opposed to duty hairy crackrocks
jurov: *dusty
kakobrekla: but those getcha hi.
r3wt: true
r3wt: they do getcha hi
Apocalyptic: wtf is this
r3wt: i don't know i derailed the thread again. time for me to shut up now
kakobrekla: choo choo *BAM* in a rock of crack.
jurov: ok back to business: davout, why b-c isn't listed on btcmarkets nor bitcoinity?
r3wt: Someone i knew once blew their brains out yesterday. One of those people you'd never think would blow their brains out
kakobrekla: davout why b-c isnt listed on btcrt
kakobrekla: or rtbtc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 25 @ 0.06959971 = 1.74 BTC [+] {8}
r3wt: WTS: 32 LTC make offer
ThickAsThieves: rot, this aint the place
r3wt: who is rot?
kakobrekla: where is that herbi now
BingoBoingo: Probably hanging out with kangaroos
ozbot: Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock]
kakobrekla: PR solves all problems
kakobrekla: especially with missing monies.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00086115 = 3.6168 BTC [-]
ozbot: [ANN] PWNYCOIN [PWNY]
pankkake: I mined it, but it didn't make me rich despite the instamine feature
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2608 @ 0.00018108 = 0.4723 BTC [+] {9}
pankkake: they botched the pony theme, too… not cute, not enough ponies
pankkake: and rainbow dash is worst pony
Diablo-D3: dude
Diablo-D3: they're ALL worst pony
Diablo-D3: they're ponies
Diablo-D3: and besides, if we're playing that game
Diablo-D3: its clearly pinkie pie
pankkake ignores Diablo-D3
kakobrekla: so luke dash jr is a pony too?
Diablo-D3: fourth wall breaking gypsy arsonist murderer that is also the second companion to the doctor.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.06999995 = 0.35 BTC [+] {2}
deadweasel: jurov, you launched a coin?
Mats_cd03: This Cognitive guy is just starting college? lolol
jurov: deadweasel: no, why?
deadweasel: pwnycoin not you?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00086399 = 10.4543 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 122 @ 0.00299996 = 0.366 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 30 @ 0.07229998 = 2.169 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 8 @ 0.07299999 = 0.584 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.53499998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.534 BTC [-]
diametric: see they were smart
diametric: unlike groupon
ThickAsThieves: such signs if getting old, ive never heard of whatsapp before
jurov: it's funny i have met people that were using some IM app I never heard of, cuz everyone they know is using it
jurov: even yahoo messenger
diametric: i'm still rocking aol instant messenger
diametric: same account since like, 97 i think
ThickAsThieves: i did for a long while
ThickAsThieves: then google talk
ThickAsThieves: now everyone wants to use skype
ThickAsThieves: i just use whatever i have to i guess
diametric: ugh no
diametric: i prefer something that works with pidgin/adium so I can use OTR
ThickAsThieves: never tried using otr for chats
diametric: I use it pretty much all the time. Most of the people I talk to have an otr capable client so it just automatically initiates a session
ThickAsThieves: now it says $19b
jurov: haha. for one i know of no one using otr outside irc
ThickAsThieves: oh $3b in stock
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.10099999 = 0.202 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: skype is the evil of evils. proprietary encrypted protocol, so you're forced to use their crappy software
ThickAsThieves: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
ThickAsThieves: On March 1, 2014, TAT Investments will transfer control of the AM1, AM100, and [b]SMG [/b]listings at HavelockInvestments.com to the direct control of Havelock Investments.
ThickAsThieves: None of these funds are closing at this time. A new e-mail address for AM1 transfer requests will be provided at the end of this month.
ThickAsThieves: None of the fund terms are changing other than to replace TAT Investments.
ThickAsThieves: All underlying assets that represent these passthrough shares will also be transferred to Havelock. The direct shares will be held at 1J5fvfUrDcZj8rrpVHMgn8u7sXee84QkPd.
ThickAsThieves: This also means that ThickAsThieves will no longer hold a board seat with ASICMINER, and a representative from Havelock will instead.
ThickAsThieves: NEOBEE is not changing operators.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00086132 = 2.3686 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: sry i hit enter before cleaning that up
Chris_Sabian: why the change?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00086403 = 2.8513 BTC [+]
dexX7: are they buying you out?
ThickAsThieves: that's really a very long answer or very short one
ThickAsThieves: the short one is, i don't want to manage them anymore
dexX7: ah
ThickAsThieves: the reasons why are multiple, some fairly obvious, some not
ThickAsThieves: i'll keep it positive though and note i'm focusing on other projects instead
pankkake: I guess I was right saying Altcoin is the next AsicMiner
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.0008644 = 3.933 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: even shorter is answer: theres no more money innit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: amirite?
ThickAsThieves: there's certainly LESS money in it
ThickAsThieves: but still money to be made
kakobrekla: less enough!
kakobrekla: to be bothered.
kakobrekla: the pot is dry
kakobrekla: pass it quickly to someone else
kakobrekla: before they notice.
kakobrekla: havelock saves.
ThickAsThieves: worth more to them
ThickAsThieves: good thing Deprived wasnt around to pass it to!
kakobrekla: [Zapp Brannigan has just piloted the Titanic straight into the path of a black hole]
kakobrekla: Captain Zapp Brannigan: Don't blame yourself, Kif. We were doomed from the start. I guess all that remains now is for the captain to go down with the ship.
kakobrekla: Lt. Kif Kroker: That's surprisingly noble of you, sir.
kakobrekla: Captain Zapp Brannigan: No, it's noble of you, Kif. As of now, you're in command. Congratulations, Captain.
kakobrekla: [Zapp runs off]
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'in the game of chess, you must never let the enemy see your pieces!' (from same.)
ozbot: I was just threatened for exposing a scam on r/bitcoin : Bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: seansoutpost gets warnt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.51251667 = 3.0751 BTC [-] {4}
pankkake: "Scammers used to be gentleman and just disappear from existence" oh really?
ThickAsThieves: and then make new existence
ThickAsThieves: over and over
ThickAsThieves: sometimes more than one at a time
ThickAsThieves: cryptostocks is cranking them out lately
pankkake: scammers are cocky and get mad when you expose them
ThickAsThieves: S.EXISTENCE
pankkake: S.EX
pankkake: S.EXIST
ThickAsThieves: S.EXCORCIST
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.51200001 = 4.608 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 'SEX EXISTS' (graffiti on an abandoned warehouse in wash. d.c. area.)
ThickAsThieves: AM1 crashing on the news!
pankkake: well the thing is… if Havelock falls, the operator is havelock
ThickAsThieves: flipside, one less counterparty to worry about
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.512 = 2.56 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: nah, even i dont buy that
ThickAsThieves: the risk of Havelock affects all on Havelock always
ThickAsThieves: can't remove that really
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.512 = 10.24 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.51115 = 5.1115 BTC [-] {4}
Namworld: Don't issuers have list of holders?
ThickAsThieves: on Havelock, yes
ThickAsThieves: i can access it live anytime and get autobackups twice each day
Namworld: Sounds good.
ThickAsThieves: not sure what youre getting at though
pankkake: it means havelock was kinda irrelevant as a counterparty
pankkake: we trusted you!
ThickAsThieves: Havelock is far from irrelavant though
ThickAsThieves: even a shareholder list cant prevent many things
ThickAsThieves: but no i agree that it's better to have the middleman
ThickAsThieves: assuming there's trust to be gained
ThickAsThieves: now, i believe Havelock and Panama Fund might be separate things
ThickAsThieves: Havelock, the investment bank
ThickAsThieves: or whichever category they claim
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.511 = 1.022 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 137 @ 0.00299998 = 0.411 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.00492307 = 0.2117 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.50701 = 6.0841 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00491707 = 0.9834 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.50560167 = 3.0336 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.0680575 = 0.2722 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 33 @ 0.05672483 = 1.8719 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50510002 = 1.0102 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.50510001 = 5.051 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: on another note: "Pussy Riot members attacked with whips by Cossack militia in Sochi" << bwahaha
mircea_popescu: mod6 yup :D
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this "theme of the century" bs is greatly loved by libertards, because it pretty much works like global warming.
mircea_popescu: there's very little data, and the data that is unwarrantly overrepresents what they like (ie, their own eco chambers) and fails to represent or misrepresents what actually happened.
mircea_popescu: o look, the "i didn't know i was on private" bs made it to here.
mircea_popescu: about five years ago an affiliate manager came up with the brilliant idea of doing two email blasts instead of one, because the first "had some mistakes" that "were corrected"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00482502 = 0.1206 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it became fashionable because affiliate marketing is a very fashion driven <del>industry</del>, occupation, and so for about a year no email blast could ever be sent by anyone that was "correct".
ThickAsThieves: i never met an affiliate marketer i liked
ThickAsThieves: both web and irl types
ThickAsThieves: cue mp "That's how I got rich!"
mircea_popescu: nah not rly.
mircea_popescu: i did meet some i liked,
mircea_popescu: but what do you know, they were all women.
mircea_popescu: generally the affiliate marketing guy is a combo of sleazy car salesman and otaku fatso.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] [PAID] 11.00391760 BTC to 18`616 shares, 59110 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: cads: I think they want to see what a $1000 3d printer can do << by paying 700 for an itam ? wouldn't it be easier to just add 300 and check the printer at home ?
ThickAsThieves: surely not easier
ThickAsThieves: it's the easy that theyre paying for
mircea_popescu: i never paid 700k for a consome just to see waht a 1mn restaurant can do, i'll tell you that :D
ThickAsThieves: very fair comparison
mircea_popescu: totally.
ThickAsThieves: i stand erected
cads: I mean, these guys currently... fly a guy overseas to look at a part.
mircea_popescu: cads i get it, i get it, burning through all that vc money is a fucking tough job.
mircea_popescu: hey cads, you had a blog did you ?
cads: nope, I was playing with one for some of my math stuff but I never published anything worth reading
cads: I keep wanting to get back to blogging
mircea_popescu: so then, here's your big thing : make a post introducing social justice as if it were set theory.
ThickAsThieves: WhatsApp had one investor, at $8m in 2011
cads: hehe, I do love moral calculus.
ThickAsThieves: coke and whores for the whole team!
mircea_popescu: i'll argue the shit out of you, if nothing else then so anon retards have a model of how it works.
mircea_popescu: and maybe, who knows, understand actual generosity,
mircea_popescu: as opposed to their contemptible slimy thing.
mircea_popescu: the20year2: In a life or death situation i'm sure they don't care too much << did this guy just argue with a bunch of people about using the rifle as a club ?
ThickAsThieves: uh oh ""In terms of value creation, this is the biggest on record," re: WhatsApp
ThickAsThieves: what about teh buttcoinz?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves see ? all the forum signs of greatness.
mircea_popescu: it's too easy for us. we are incredibly fucking powerful, just for having been here and seen it first hand.
benkay: ;;market
gribble: Error: "market" is not a valid command.
benkay: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 627.85, Best ask: 628.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.62000, Last trade: 627.85, 24 hour volume: 10920.95006922, 24 hour low: 617.0, 24 hour high: 636.0, 24 hour vwap: 626.88346818
ThickAsThieves: how on gods bloody earth is a chat app worth $19b
ThickAsThieves: especially one i never heard of
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves in exactly the same way it's a good idea for businesses to ask for "affordable housing" instead of tax rebates.
mircea_popescu: you have to have a special worm in your head, like tequilla.
ThickAsThieves: that's 19 Instagrams
ThickAsThieves: well maybe not anymore
moiety: mew all, how goes?
ThickAsThieves: probly lik 87 Instagrams now
mircea_popescu: pew moiety. just fine.
cads: ThickAsThieves: so.. whatapp?
mircea_popescu: which one is instagram ?
mircea_popescu: tumblr is different right ?
ThickAsThieves: the photo filters
moiety: look at my feet through a weird filter = instagram
mircea_popescu: definitelly worth 19 billion DOLLARS.
cads: mircea_popescu: instragram is photography for hipsters and hiphop kids
mircea_popescu: not likely worth five bitcoin, but 19 bn dollars...well...
ThickAsThieves: they basically put photobooths in an app and called it a day
moiety: tumblr = heres pics of everything in a back-to-front blog setup
cads: tumblr is miniblogging
mircea_popescu: i think that's where ozbot gets all those bad pictures of naked teenagers.
moiety: lol!
mircea_popescu: cads so do we got a deal or are you too loath to commit ?
mircea_popescu: lmao the prostitution rests.
ThickAsThieves: perfect compliment to my erected joke! if only we planned
mircea_popescu: pankkake you shall have a more detailed answer in a second.
mircea_popescu: o nm you already had it
cads: mircea_popescu: I'm not sure where I'd start to be honest
moiety: lolol talking of prostitution
mircea_popescu: you too ?
mircea_popescu: dude what's with you people, seriously. you believe in this, right ?
mircea_popescu: it's no shame, people believe all sorts of weird shit.
cads: I do want to do a mathematical treatise of some austrian school economics
mircea_popescu: but how can you go through your day not understanding what you believe in ?
mircea_popescu: i mean even the flat earth folks can EXPLAIN it to you if you ask.
ThickAsThieves: the earth is flat, it just appears spherical
moiety: lol this girl tries upmarket selling herself on a forum basically. you should see who replied http://www.hellou.com/2014/02/apparently-young-woman-posted-following-forum-title-marry-rich-guy-2049/
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves do you know who was the biggest believer ?
ThickAsThieves: napolean?
mircea_popescu: o no. almost contemporary.
mircea_popescu: the kruger guy for whom the krugerrand is named.
mircea_popescu: staunch.
wao-ender: very loyal and commited
wao-ender: instersting
benkay: o/ moiety
mircea_popescu: i tend to ask people with gold coin collections (which obviously WILL include some) "but you don't think the earth is flat, too, do youi ?"
mircea_popescu: absolutely nobody to date knew the reference.
moiety: \o aye up benkay :) how's you?
mircea_popescu: wao-ender no i mean about paul kruger
cads: mircea_popescu: I dunno, maybe I could do a situation with agents that act under various ignorance or misinformation constraints.
cads: I'm trying to think of the simplest measure of the fairness of a situation.
mircea_popescu: cads don't be bullied into it, but just consider that a) you really can't go through life like this and b) you definitely can't write the austrian thing for this reason.
mircea_popescu: sooner or later it'll have to be well resolved.
wao-ender: oh, we believes in that war with England, right?
ThickAsThieves: i think i just found a havelock bug, i sent a deposit to two different security accounts using 1 tx, it only deposited one amount
wao-ender: that his army can resist?
mircea_popescu: wao-ender they did it just fine for a while. but yes the boors.
ThickAsThieves: no way to exploit such thing, but annoying...
wao-ender: interesting life story
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves reverse-malleability.
wao-ender: well, but kinda it's true
mircea_popescu: moiety oyu know that "please allow me to analyse your situation" post is about as old as the internet ?
wao-ender: all we have, is the Hope.
wao-ender: Hope for next day.
mircea_popescu: i distinctly remember readinf the exchange in the mid 90s, thinking "look how retarded the mericans actually are, they believe this crap is respondent"
moiety: of course not! I've been banished from proper internetting for years! I loved his response though, fresh to me.
moiety: aw i think i find something good and it just turns out ive beenunder my rock for a while again lol
mircea_popescu: if i recall the original actually had good new england grammar
cads: hmm, so the service boasts half a billion users
mircea_popescu: cads AND VIEWS! pls do not forget the views.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.50277 = 10.0554 BTC [-] {7}
cads: yes, the views, the views, gotta count the views...
cads: .... views....
cads twitches
moiety: i also learned today that ABBA admitted they wore the outfits they did for tax deductions
mircea_popescu: ... abba ?!
moiety: yeah lol
mircea_popescu: just how young are you darlin' ?
moiety: 29 years, a lot younger worldly. fair?
mircea_popescu: hehe i'm just pestering you.
mircea_popescu: you see, bois are fully allowed to love mac clintock, but god forbid a woman mentions abba like she heard of it.
mircea_popescu: gotta keep the double standards.
moiety: ah i forget those, go wandering into all kinds of sentences unwittingly
mircea_popescu: diametric the other interepretation is, that as long as you price your goods in dollars you're fine, and as long as you accept someone';s offer of doobaloos for your items you're also fine,
mircea_popescu: but you're not allowed to open a shop on 5th avenue which lists all prices in bitcoin and doesn't take usd,
mircea_popescu: nor are you allowed to pull the "this is just as good as usd" liberty dollar scam.
mircea_popescu: the way to skirt this, for fun and profit, is obviously to open the 5th avenue shop with prices prominently displayed in bitcoin and a tiny print usd value underneath, like "We also take this shit if you absolutely must"
mircea_popescu: which will likely get you sued and congress pass a law saying dollars have to be just as big as anything else on the tag!!1
cads: Hey guys, are you familiar with the multi-armed bandit problem?
moiety: lolol
mircea_popescu: cads yes
moiety: i thought most bandits had multiple arms
ThickAsThieves: Dancing Queen was the first cover song in my first punk band
moiety: please say its online somewhere ThickAsThieves !
moiety: aww
mircea_popescu: moiety it's a formulation of the explore/exploit dilemma
cads: moiety: A one armed bandit is a slot machine, while the multi-armed bandit problem considers the best play in a situation with multiple slot machines with uncertain odds.
mircea_popescu: like suppose you're naked outdoors circa 4500 bc, and very hungry.
mircea_popescu: you find a bush with berries.
mircea_popescu: how long do you spend grazing and when do you leave looking for more bushes ?
moiety: when you have collected them all from the first
mircea_popescu: yes well, it gets more complicated than that.
moiety: ik sorry i couldnt resist
mircea_popescu: god forbid someone marries you.
moiety: i think we can all safely assume thats not going to happen
mircea_popescu: attn all present jpm bankers. the girl won't leave till she's bled you dry!
moiety: LOL
moiety: but..she bakes!
mircea_popescu: do you pole dance ?
moiety: i feel my art is restricted with equipment
moiety: no
mircea_popescu: supposedly it's great exercise.
moiety: the actual pole spins itself doesn't it, its not as difficult as it looks
mircea_popescu: it can be about as difficult or easy as you want to make it for yourself.
benkay: i think not. strippers can't handle rotational inertia.
mircea_popescu: benkay they actually have both versions.
benkay: o of course
benkay: but you know
benkay: somewhere there's a cutoff.
benkay: 5%
benkay: 25?
benkay: 2%?*
mircea_popescu: the problem with fixed poles is that girls want to lube it up
benkay: matter of taste.
mircea_popescu: which then gets kind-of disgusting
benkay: which is why they wipe it down with solvent between performances, non?
mircea_popescu: someplaces.
mircea_popescu: the problem with that is the solvent isn't so kind on the sensitive skin of the thigs
benkay: so let it evaporate
benkay: disease transmission's it's own peculiar set of tastes too.
moiety: looking at wiki, i think it just depends on the venue
mircea_popescu: you generally need a bill of health to work anywhere.
moiety: chinese pole dancers use two
mircea_popescu: re winkdex : myeah, we have a serious problem with indexes.
mircea_popescu: lol @ reddit link
mircea_popescu: "ono, someone said mean things to me ON THE INTERWEBS! PLS CARE"
mircea_popescu: and the shit got like 200 votes and comments and whatnot. which clearly shows the importance of social media voting.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 46 @ 0.49771739 = 22.895 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.51 = 1.02 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is old news; 2nd tournament is mostly done now, too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.07495 = 0.1499 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: basically the appeal of civ was exactly this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: contest inspired by Axelrod's prisoner's dilemma tournament
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know this inspires me ? one could formalise the problem with strings.
asciilifeform: they sorta did.
moiety: thats just along the road from me!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hear me out :
mircea_popescu: you define actual words in the dictionary as "good stuff", and each player gets a selection of poems to complete. words themselves are worth points, filled lines are worth more points, filled poems even more.
mircea_popescu: then you give everyone strings, and they can read one char at a time
mircea_popescu: for a cost. or skip the string, for a larger cost.
BingoBoingo: I just caution against the spring anchored portable poles unless you like driving drunk girls to the ER at odd hours of the morning because they flew into a wall.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nttawwt.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obviously player can only eat a word if the whole word has been read.
asciilifeform: this sound like fun, but the contest was a robot-writing one
asciilifeform: rather than between players directly
asciilifeform: the final reports are worth reading
mircea_popescu: you have to write the scripts for this.
mircea_popescu: i was just describing what your bot is supposed to do.
mircea_popescu: well not your your. one's.
asciilifeform: what's the goal? to reproduce the poem before the other players?
mircea_popescu: get most moneyz
mircea_popescu: the key here, of course, being that the strings are not all created equal
asciilifeform: 'read one character at a time' << from another player's slate?
mircea_popescu: each string has its own per-character entropy, from epsilon to 8-epsilon
mircea_popescu: no, the string is in the middle.
mircea_popescu: "all players get copies of the same strings" say.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: might want to describe this for the simple (i.e. mathematically)
mircea_popescu: that'll be hard ;/
mircea_popescu: ok but let me try.
mircea_popescu: the game board consists of an endless set of strings, which all start as natural language constructs and are "decayed" by bit flipping by an actual rng.
mircea_popescu: once the decay is complete the game board is ready.
mircea_popescu: any number of players can play.
mircea_popescu: each player gets the same copy of the same list of strings. at any point each player has the choice of either reading one more character from their current string or advance ot the next string.
mircea_popescu: each player has a pre-given "Table" consisting of a number of natural language poems. these are actual literature.
mircea_popescu: whenever a player has read a natural language word (ie, from the dictionary) out of the string (exact match, no mixing of letters or anything scrabble-ish) he now has that word.
mircea_popescu: the word on itself is worth something. if the word is actually part of one of the player's poems on their table, it's worth more.
mircea_popescu: if the player completes a line or a poem, more bonuses.
asciilifeform: sounds like a variation on 'Erudit'
mircea_popescu: he wins with the highest score once all players have read all strings.
mircea_popescu: does it ?
mircea_popescu: cause that's what i was wanting, to see if this is original or i'm just ineptly stumbling on well known (to everyone else) history.
asciilifeform: and it's not clear, from this description, that the ideal strategy is any kind of problem
asciilifeform: s/erudit/scrabble
mircea_popescu: why is that ?
asciilifeform: well, consider a bot. he can contain whatever, so he has an embedded dictionary (for the natural language of the poems)
asciilifeform: or, failing that, simply the set of necessary words (all words from his poem slate)
mircea_popescu: no problem. so ?
mircea_popescu: it is a given the bot would contain the dictionaries, sure.
asciilifeform: if the current buffer at any time does not match the beginning of any useful word, switch.
mircea_popescu: so you switch on character 1 of all strings ?
asciilifeform: unless i'm missing something
asciilifeform: not all, but once 'x' becomes 'xy' and there is no 'xylophone' in the table...
mircea_popescu: seems to me a better strategy may be to stick with a not-so-entropic string
mircea_popescu: than to switch and perhaps get a very entropic string.
asciilifeform: illustrate?
mircea_popescu: even if the xy atm has no xylophone.
mircea_popescu: ok. string one : xygfredfoxjumpedoverstan
mircea_popescu: string two acadafabadabababbadaafa
asciilifeform: from whence do the strings come?
mircea_popescu: they all start as natural language constructs
mircea_popescu: and are fuzzed to different (and unknown to players) degrees
mircea_popescu: some are very badly fuzzed. some very slightly. some in between
asciilifeform: random selections from dictionary, then permuted a character at a time before start?
asciilifeform: and with varying degrees of noise?
mircea_popescu: random selections from the poems given out,
mircea_popescu: and then noised.
mircea_popescu: basically the player becomes an exercise to measure the fuzzer parameters
asciilifeform: but noised to differing degrees, deliberately?
mircea_popescu: in a half-blind fashion.
asciilifeform: then strategy is clear, measure the noise.
mircea_popescu: that in principle is clear, but it helps as much as "capture enemy pieces" helps in chess
mircea_popescu: i suspect.
asciilifeform: certainly.
mircea_popescu: because measuring the noise has a cost in itself.
mircea_popescu: moreover, take our original two strings.
mircea_popescu: when do you measure the noise ?
mircea_popescu: xy is noisier than ac
mircea_popescu: sampling problems.
mircea_popescu: xyg way noisier than aca
asciilifeform: noise being 'frequency of substrings that contain no valid words,' perhaps.
mircea_popescu: 2nd still less noisy
benkay: hey mircea_popescu where's the essay in which you explain why proles can't afford privacy?
asciilifeform: fuck, i've played this game!
asciilifeform: with genetic sequences.
asciilifeform: long story.
ozbot: Anonimity : not for the poor. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was going to say, basically this game is the game of fucking life.
mircea_popescu: every programmer ever has basically played this with compilers and errors and blabla.
benkay: thankee sir
mircea_popescu: every engineer idem.
asciilifeform: i meant, literally this game.
asciilifeform: with homology modelling.
mircea_popescu: o wow srsly ?
mircea_popescu: is it named anything ?
asciilifeform: not afaik
asciilifeform: but an actual expert might know. (i was thrown into that line of work by accident.)
mircea_popescu: i guess ima clean it up and put it on the t.
asciilifeform: i also have a hunch that it is a variant of Knapsack Problem
mircea_popescu: it certainly is.
mircea_popescu: im just not sure it's reducible to i.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.00494 = 0.1037 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: incidentally
asciilifeform: consider this knapsack packer:
asciilifeform: you want, from a set n1, n2, n3, ... nk, a subset such that sum(...) = S
mircea_popescu: blackjack ?
asciilifeform: that was just a simplified restatement of problem;
asciilifeform: now consider a source of light, of known polarization, shining into a tube
asciilifeform: on the other end of tube, a filter which passes only light polarized P degrees.
asciilifeform: in the pipe, slides containing each a matrix of regions of optically rotating substance (chiral whatever)
asciilifeform: each region rotates the light by d1, d2, ... dk degrees.
mircea_popescu: "make porn appear on the screen"
asciilifeform: endgame is an exercise for the alert reader.
asciilifeform: (incl. how to get the answer out.)
asciilifeform: (and how to attach 'weights' to n1, ... nk)
mircea_popescu: your reader needs to be mighty alert.
asciilifeform: result: machine solving knapsack problem in polynomial time.
asciilifeform: (source: my turdbook, circa '08)
mircea_popescu: i bet you the most that comes out of this is some new quantum effect.
asciilifeform: this is a strictly 1900s contraption.
asciilifeform: (basic principle due to herr pasteur)
benkay: see asciilifeform even MP thinks your readers gotta be super alert.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's sans the chiral bits :)
mircea_popescu: you will end up with separation issues at the region boundries i bet.
asciilifeform: damnit, you want that i draw the whole picture, and then some bozo maps knapsack to the discrete logarithm problem
asciilifeform: and then we can go cry
mircea_popescu: derp, they never do.
mircea_popescu: i tell you, the most happening is "wow, look, likght does THAT too ?!"
asciilifeform waves to dr. evil reading this
mircea_popescu: recall the early highschool physics "and now the light makes spots, and now the light makes lines"
asciilifeform: it's a brute-forcer for n-SAT, too
asciilifeform: because you can perform modular arithmetic using rotation
asciilifeform: idea is, some scattered light will take the correct path through the rotators
asciilifeform: if you can determine the path, you have answer.
mircea_popescu: but you can't determine the path for very good reasons
mircea_popescu: known since about the 1900s
asciilifeform: not directly.
mircea_popescu: you won't be able to establish the path of light after you've measured its position
mircea_popescu: (tyhrough the rotation)
asciilifeform: no need.
asciilifeform: pull the rotator slides one by one
asciilifeform: and measure the error of the 'answer'
mircea_popescu: i tell you, this is a perpetuum lightmobile.
mircea_popescu: i'm a very theoretical physicist. i have no fucking idea of the formulas involved in physics, but i can tell you when you're wasting your time.
asciilifeform: i don't insist that this is a useful mechanism, that necessarily does 'the job'. only that 1) i never found any trace that it was proposed before 2) i cannot see a 'textbook' reason why it ought not to work
lnovy: (tldr, but...) conservation of energy?
asciilifeform: lnovy: please elaborate?
lnovy: sorry, off-topic problem, as i've said, tldr
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i for one certainly would like to see it built.
mircea_popescu: lnovy nah, that was just a metaphor.
lnovy: mircea_popescu: :)
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'there are no new ideas', etc. and this is but a minor generalization of shamir's TWINKLE/TWIRL
asciilifeform: which i realized the next day.
mircea_popescu: not so minor.
mircea_popescu: it's actually pretty good sarcasm, re twinkle.
asciilifeform: i only brought this up because armed bandits and knapsacks.
asciilifeform: there's a whole field of weird analogue computers using light, that mostly died out some time last century
asciilifeform: it could use a little help from modern electronics, and come back with a vengeance
asciilifeform: (from the 'weird soviet crap' dept. of my brain)
asciilifeform: people did amazing things with optics, without any access to coherent light, much less computer
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
greenspan_fan: for instance, fresnel lenses-- a thin sheet that magnifies surprisingly efficiently
moiety: lol duffer thats brilliant
Duffer1: ^.^
asciilifeform: pop quiz for whoever: how did the discoverer of the 'LED' die?
greenspan_fan: heart disease? cancer? automobile accident?
asciilifeform: no/no/no
moiety: i thought he was still alive
moiety: wiki lies to meeeeeeeee
asciilifeform: starvation.
moiety: starvation?
greenspan_fan: vis a vis, leningrad. Wikipedia lists three discoverers though
Duffer1: ww2
moiety: im just catching up i see there are three guys
chetty: A Fatwa has been issued against living on Mars by clerics who say that trying to set up home there would be un-Islamic.
moiety: wah i didnt realise it was as early as 1927 he started documenting
benkay: chetty: did you ever read the Red/Green/Blue Mars books?
chetty: nope never heard of those
Duffer1: i've read them, proud to say i didn't skip any pages
benkay: Kim Stanley Robinson. he gets a wee-bit preachy and long in the mouth (like Rand) but has a very vivid story about the different groups who emigrated and why and what they all did with themselves.
chetty: haha just reading about them, seems very timely stuff
Duffer1: the over all story is well worth the overlong theories of possible future technical/civil/economic possibilities
Duffer1: i wonder what KSR would extrapolate from blockchain tech
Duffer1: kim stanley robinson
benkay: it was interesting to see the Accelerando guy take his stance on bitcoin being evil
Duffer1: charles stross
benkay: yeah, him.
benkay: when A. is basically all about what the world looks like after the hidebound states fall over
benkay: although in his vision it was the reputation system that cracked 'em open, not the breaking of the fiat bank.
benkay: makes sense, right? nerds want to have other nerds idolized by nerd-tokens.
Duffer1: which is ironic since his latest book (which was frankly aweful) featured the cryptocurrency idea prominently
mircea_popescu: benkay tell you a secret : if all the people who had been up to this point claimed to be employed at or interested in bitcoin's business had recognised it and moved over,
benkay: not this power-concentrating pure money technology bullshit
mircea_popescu: i'd have been well fucking worried it's all a plant.
asciilifeform: stross, if i'm not mistaken, is the 'other kind' of writer
mircea_popescu: as it is, it's all fine.
asciilifeform: the kind with 'kolhozes on mars'
benkay: ;;ud kolhozes
gribble: Google found nothing.
mircea_popescu: OF COURSE they would fight it tooth and nail. imagine someone invents a solution to all X problems tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: who do you think will fight it in the US ? those currently involved in X right ?
asciilifeform: ;;ud kolkhoz
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kolkhoz | trending. hipster · neknominate · lumpatious · tittybong · poopsterbate · dtf · spectaphile · bae · yolo · pussy. categories. gaming · sports · food · sex · tv · film ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: kolkhoz
benkay: this is no secret to me, mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: i know :)
Duffer1: ;; tittybong
gribble: Error: "tittybong" is not a valid command.
Duffer1: ;;ud tittybong
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tittybong | tittybong. a place in Australia but also the act of the female appendage leaping from it's cotton, underwired prison. Can be used as an expression of pleasure...or  ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: tittybong
benkay: it's great right?
benkay: bitcoin stable for spring 2014 at 650
benkay: everyone thinks its crazy and or stupid
benkay: the ones who argue a) satoshi hoard and b) implementation-as-specification are right
benkay: but sadly also wrong
benkay: i have no idea how a) will resolve, but b) cannot stand.
ozbot: Bitcoin Beauties
mircea_popescu: "our project". wtf ?
ThickAsThieves: address starts with a 3?
mircea_popescu: fucking weirdest thing i've seen so far today.
benkay: they're excited about growth
benkay: my kinda babes.
pankkake: P2SH address
mircea_popescu: and i mean who wouldn't be.
asciilifeform: the '3' was a monkeywrench thrown by their monkey
asciilifeform: who resented being put to such a task.
benkay: "we appreciate your your support and stoke"
ThickAsThieves: there's something missing too
mircea_popescu: well they're ok girls, whadda ya want.
benkay: great tits, too.
mircea_popescu: supposing of course the tiny shitty pictures aren't lifted.
ThickAsThieves: i can see a shape of a nipple!
ThickAsThieves donates it all.
benkay: blew your wad, eh?
pankkake: girl pics for btc is something reddit is actually useful at
moiety: i go for hot chocolate and miss tits and bongs? ffs ping me next time
mircea_popescu: incidentally re p2sh :
asciilifeform: moiety: you also missed n-sat solver.
mircea_popescu: gavin put in code that made everyone downloading the latest versiion vote "yes" cause he wanted to see a yesz.
mircea_popescu: this got him exactly squat, showing about how important control of the new releases was
mircea_popescu: back in 2012.
benkay: whaaaaat
pankkake: well, pools don't really apt-get install bitcoin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some braindamaged extension of innate scripting capabilities
mircea_popescu: which was put together suspiciously quickly.
pankkake: but it allows to decentralize everything!
asciilifeform: bip-16 ?
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr was all against it iirc.
pankkake: see, you shouldn't hate Luke-Jr
ThickAsThieves: like against it with his crotch?
mircea_popescu: then there was bip-17, an entire drama.
benkay: saw that
benkay: man if you delete shit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
benkay: relevant to past business/coding exploits
benkay: u ams scam.
moiety: went looking for that asciilifeform lol
benkay: what was this forced voting thong?
mircea_popescu: it is pretty fucking stupid.
ThickAsThieves: are bitcoin software updates even going to be possible for much longer?
mircea_popescu: in his defense they "updated" the site like 5x in the interval, because you defo need moar logos and shit
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is a sore spot power rangers would rather not go into.
asciilifeform: trying to figure out the point
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look into bip-12 too while you're at it.
moiety: i still cant figure out the btcbeauties project apart from trying to hide the fat one
ThickAsThieves: she's just big-boned!
moiety: it's a trap!
pankkake: I like big boneds
mircea_popescu: me either, but i told em to drop by here.
mircea_popescu: maybe they do and then can explain.
moiety: i love how they went on location as probably too embarrassed to strip pff anywhere else
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.05329996 = 0.3198 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: lol i would love it if they did
moiety: drop by i mean
mircea_popescu: you ever been nude in public ?
benkay: don't they know the assettes only get off on public nudity?
moiety: let's define public. do you mean in view or just in a public place?
mircea_popescu: either way.
moiety: yes but not in view
mircea_popescu: just establishing your credentials to bitch at them >D
asciilifeform: cursory reading of bip-12 suggests that it gives you a coin that sits on a magic addr, from whence it can, say, move to A1, A2, or A3 but nowhere else
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ono. it pulls up something from the stack.
asciilifeform: but i'm trying to enumerate the possible cases
mircea_popescu: it could do pretty much anything, such as never stop.
mircea_popescu: (turing complete)
asciilifeform: given that most of the opcodes in the classical client are commented out
asciilifeform: (or were, last i checked)
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, pissing on this particular electric fence is strictly voluntary.
asciilifeform: bip-12 appears to specify a max recursion depth of 2
mircea_popescu: the argument isn't "o wow look btc is broken", the argument merely is "o hey, remember when gavin was a total asshat in 2012 ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform admitting it is actually enforced.
asciilifeform: the devs stay on their ceremonial throne until the first bugocalypse.
asciilifeform: after that, they go somewhere else...
asciilifeform: will be interesting to see what becomes of the empty throne.
moiety: how many bips are there?
moiety: thank you asciilifeform
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: wait a sec
moiety: jesus, lots
asciilifeform: 'standard' and link -> 404 ?!
moiety: sorry you guys hearts must sink when i come in
jayk: i really hate commercials that have a doorbell
jayk: especially ones that sound exactly like mine
benkay: my heart sinks when truffles comes in.
moiety: lol i had a parrot that meowed and did the phone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50004999 = 1.0001 BTC [-] {2}
bloctoc: I apologize if it's already been discussed, but does anyone seen significance in mtgox stopping the drop today?
benkay: "stopping the drop"?
benkay: ;;ticker --market mtgox
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 262.345, Best ask: 264.695, Bid-ask spread: 2.35000, Last trade: 262.345, 24 hour volume: 33931.23630368, 24 hour low: 257.10001, 24 hour high: 298.0, 24 hour vwap: 265.3911
Duffer1: did they suspend trading or did the market stop selling?
jcpham: Winkdex!
bloctoc: if you look at 24 hour chart, there seems to be a willingness to buy at 261
bloctoc: wondering if that's where mtgox needs the price to be to recapitalize.
moiety: this is how gox is protecting itself from closure. If they don't let anyone withdraw ever again, they can't ever really close
moiety: (kidding)
benkay: not that good of a joke
benkay: too close to home
benkay: at least in their minds...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 39 @ 0.00494 = 0.1927 BTC [+]
mike_c: 1) stop withdrawals. 2) use your 'unlimited account' to buy btc at 260. 3) use whatever you have left in the sofa cushions to process some withdrawals and restore some confidence 4) sell some of your cheap coins and use funds to process more withdrawals. 5) goto step 4.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24814 @ 0.00086611 = 21.4917 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37950 @ 0.00086614 = 32.87 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: amen.
moiety: i nabbed that
mircea_popescu: nice album art.
mircea_popescu: "A number of government lawyers involved in lawsuits over the NSA phone-records program believe federal-court rules on preserving evidence related to lawsuits require the agency to stop routinely destroying older phone records"
mircea_popescu: aka the "We must spy because you're sueing us about our spying" defense.
ozbot: Panacea Opens The Books - Btc Alpha
benkay: well done mike_c
mircea_popescu: is this an exclusive ?
mike_c: you didn't even read it yet benkay!
mike_c: mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: so say so in the piece noob :D
mike_c: srsly.
mike_c: pr fail
mircea_popescu: next time.
mircea_popescu: i hereby summarize assets for all future times :
benkay: talking about the scoop, mike_c :0
mike_c: oh :)
mircea_popescu: "hey guise! check out this neat thing i did" "x" "o fuck me".
mircea_popescu: through its first five months of operations
mike_c: August through january. i think that's 5
mircea_popescu: but first five months of operation neh ?
mike_c: fuck
mike_c: that's 6
pankkake: great article
mircea_popescu: nice data.
moiety: that's very nice mike_c :)
mike_c: thanks. credit to kakobrekla for sending that along. very cool of him.
kakobrekla: o very cool
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 108 @ 0.003 = 0.324 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: nice article mike_c
moiety: there he is lol hi kakobrekla
kakobrekla: yes, here. hi!
mike_c: Apocalyptic: thanks. also, i believe awhile ago you mentioned you were interested in the income investments section, so check out http://www.btcalpha.com/income/. it's version 1, but still some useful info i think.
Apocalyptic: just reading it now :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 54 @ 0.00482148 = 0.2604 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.48103001 = 4.3293 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: i think the assettes crashed your server, mike_c.
benkay: leastaways /income/ isn't serving anything for me.
benkay goes back to the ragel documentation
mike_c: browser?
mike_c: sry chan, i'll pm.
benkay: yeah it may be a browser thing
benkay: no man fuckit! debug in -assets! this is how we roll.
mike_c: ok! so what browser/os we working with here?
benkay: os x, firefox.
mike_c: oh, i don't support mac
mike_c: (kidding)
benkay: highchart js is the long-loading one.
benkay: and nevermind.
mike_c: loading?
benkay: nondeterministicwebbug.
mike_c: cool
benkay: mhm
benkay: "did you clear your cache?"
benkay: "did you restart your browser"
benkay: "did you restart your computer"
mike_c: you don't have to clear cache. i version my static files like a good webdev.
benkay: "are you running ie8?"
moiety: i was just reading the income page - nice page mike_c
benkay: lost an ie8 argument recently
greenspan_fan: what's an ie8 argument?
mike_c: thanks moiety. there is more to come on that page.
mike_c: should we support it.
moiety: bookmarked you!
benkay: that'd make you a better dev than most webbers.
mike_c: awesome
benkay: mike_c: you're still serving directly from highcharts.
mike_c: yes, that one i didn't want to bother serving locally. but i will probably change that b/c their server is down more than mine.
benkay: and i think it's a blocking call.
mike_c: ok, maybe i'll change it now.
kakobrekla: well since you are already taking complaints, in opera next witch already uses webkit, some charts get broked
kakobrekla: but i understand if you will not fix it
mircea_popescu: drama chick after performance : "how come people on stage never throw tomatoes @ the audience"
kakobrekla: i prolly wouldnt
mike_c: i already installed opera just for you kako. opera next is probably beyond your service contract.
Apocalyptic: who does use opera these days anyway
benkay: mike_c: did you see mircea_popescu's point a few days ago about the flipside of "you can raise it but you can't spend it"?
kakobrekla: LMAFO
kakobrekla: hats off mike_c
Apocalyptic: *except in somalia
mike_c: benkay: recently? don't think so. i've been around for a couple discussions on the topic.
Bugpowder: Semi-rational mutagenesis
benkay: mike_c: the basic gist is that you can't spend it when btc price is going up 'cause derp, but then when you don't spend it in time you get a reaming from investors.
benkay: for failing to capitalize on high price.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 239 @ 0.00299999 = 0.717 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: hah, yeah, i read that. but that is a minor consideration against the order of magnitude changes when it goes up.
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: I played that game quite a bit in grad school.
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder o hey so it has a name and everything ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check it out
Bugpowder: Well, it's not exactly the same game but similar enough
Bugpowder: You use degenerate PCR primers to evolve and screen fluorescent protein genes
mircea_popescu: shorter alphabet basicall ?
Bugpowder: trying to find an new one that matches
Bugpowder: well... 4 characters
mircea_popescu: shorter alphabet / longer verses.
Bugpowder: but you mutate base on the codons
Bugpowder: so 3^3 'letters'
mircea_popescu: interesting
Bugpowder: since you need 3 to actually code an amino acid.
mircea_popescu: but isn't it 3^4 then ?
Bugpowder: uhhh
Bugpowder: yeah
Bugpowder: though some represent the same letter
Bugpowder: So you can specify ATGC
mircea_popescu: well cool!
Bugpowder: OR you can specify a blend of two, three or all four randomly assorted at that position
Bugpowder: Say you want to evolve a fluorescent protein to glow a different color
Bugpowder: you suspect that a few amino acids near the core chromophore will influence the color
Bugpowder: So you do a PCR reaction (make billions of copies of the DNA), but use primers that have these selective random patches at the points in the sequence you want to sample the variation space in
moiety: thats ace
moiety: why are oxford uni using comic sans
Bugpowder: your new gene sequence now has randomizations at those spots, as specified by your primer blend
Bugpowder: then you mix the genes into a bunch of bacteria, and dilute the solution really far down, then spread it over many agar plates
Bugpowder: each bacteria that got one of the mutant genes in it will grow an independent colony
Bugpowder: hundreds or thousands on a plate
Bugpowder: and you can put them under a fluorescent light to see if you A) fucked the protein up or B) changed its color slightly. Take your best hits, sequence the gene to see what you've got, then repeat the process.
Bugpowder: This is how one gene, GFP, the green fluorescent protein
Bugpowder: Turned into many colors.
Bugpowder: Here is a painting of various color fluoresncet bacteria on a plate... created by this game...
Bugpowder: Most mutations kill the fluorescence (they don't match literate word, as a metaphor)
Bugpowder: but a few work... Just need to find them.. by flipping 2-3 letters at a time
Bugpowder: Alternatively you can use error-prone PCR, which makes random mutations everywhere
Bugpowder: instead of targeted
mircea_popescu: ok that's pretty cool
Bugpowder: OR you can insert the gene into the hyper somatic recombination region of B cells (this is how antibody diversity is generated in your own immune system), and then let the B cells mutate the protein for you
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder did you obtain the painting by smear selected bacteria or by smearing uniform bacteria with particular mutagen ?
Bugpowder: Then you just sort millions of cells over and over again till you enrich the color you want.
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: That was made by the former
Bugpowder: different colors has already been evolved
mircea_popescu: i can't help but think you're pretty close to biofilm 3d printing.
Bugpowder: Then a friend made a pallete of different color bacteria and painted the plate with a dilute solution of them. Waited 48 hours and that was the impressive result
Bugpowder: (its under UV illumination)
mircea_popescu: which... you know, if galateea ever happens...
moiety: Bugpowder, may i please use this picture?
Bugpowder: It's on wikipedia
Bugpowder: I think.
moiety: fab
Bugpowder: I think I put it there many years ago
ozbot: Green fluorescent protein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
moiety: it is really cool, i started an album after the illustrating science challenge last year
Bugpowder: BTW this work won the 2008 Nobel prize.
Bugpowder: in Chemistry
mircea_popescu: pretty cool.
moiety: i need glofish in my life
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48103666 = 1.4431 BTC [+] {3}
moiety: A Japanese-American Team created green-fluorescent cats as proof of concept to use them potentially as model organisms for diseases, particularly HIV.[42] I volunteer to look after them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for your warez pleasure: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lightproc.djvu
Bugpowder: downstream application... Total brain network activity imaging.
ozbot: Flashing fish brains filmed in action : Nature News & Comment
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'optical methods of signal processing.' v. d. svet. 1971
Bugpowder: Works best in fish tho
Bugpowder: transparent
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: example, p. 69, optical 'correlator'
Bugpowder: Also
ozbot: Watching a mouse's brain think about running with GCaMP3 - YouTube
asciilifeform: pure gold
Bugpowder: Need sleep. Laterzzz
moiety: thats incredible
moiety: cya Bugpowder thanks for le links!
mircea_popescu: for a glimpse at my forum digests :
Bugpowder: I built the gene in the mouse video... the fish video is 2 more series of evolution better...
mircea_popescu: crypto-trade (neotrix's deal that used to be an altcoin marketplace, and
mircea_popescu: which i beat the shit out of when they decided to start letting people
mircea_popescu: list securities, and which has been fucking up massively since, and which
mircea_popescu: i've been back to say hey next time listen to me before you get into this
mircea_popescu: sorta mess) is jumping on board the "o no malleability is preventing us
mircea_popescu: from paying out" wagon
greenspan_fan: anyone seriously concerned about a price collapse if it turns out most exchanges were as incompetent as mt gox?
mircea_popescu: not really.
Chris_Sabian: dont think that is possible
mircea_popescu: people thought silk road is fundamental to bitcoin value. it closed, no ill effects recorded.
greenspan_fan: there were ill effects, but it was kinda priced in at that point
mircea_popescu: people imagine exchanges are fundamental to bitcoin price. they'll close, no ill effects to be recorded.
Chris_Sabian: save the drop in price from 135-88-120
asciilifeform: (for anyone unfamiliar with 'djvu', it's an old but irreplaceable format specifically for warez scans. wavelet-compressed images. no turing-complete vector rendering as in pdf.)
greenspan_fan: people immediately bought on the dip
greenspan_fan: the concern is that speculation is pretty fundamental to current price and exchanges facilitate that
mircea_popescu: speculation of the sort and type that the exchanges enable and reddit/forum/.etc support is about as fundamental to bitcoin as druggies were.
Chris_Sabian: look the last 2 steep rises, april and nov-dec. the price shot up then peaked and dropped to ~1/2 value
Chris_Sabian: it stayed that way for several months
greenspan_fan: it kinda depends if it's past the point where adoption is widespread enough to sustain an economy w/o needing easy conversion between fiat and btc
asciilifeform: perhaps if the public exchanges perish, people will be cured of the habit of treating 'btc price in X' as a scalar.
benkay: dat fuzzy probability zone
benkay: "how much does a bitcoin cost?"
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan "adoption" means something strictly different from pageviews
mircea_popescu: bitcoin's adoption among people worth six digits or less is irrelevant.
benkay: "how good is your WOT?"
ozbot: CoinMap
asciilifeform: what does cocaine cost. or, for that matter, aluminum.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and perhaps we'll be fucking rid of all the forum investors.
mircea_popescu: im all for it.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu worth how? I have less than 100 000 btc, for example
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan dollah i meant.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is like, you know, reactionary, conservative, evil, sane. you're either rich or smart or invisible.
asciilifeform: the answer here, i suspect, depends on whether you like the taste of bullocks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more like cats.
mircea_popescu: bullocks would be ok, but the "six digits or less" is equal to saying in that other context "60 kgs or over"
greenspan_fan: but it's also pretty experimental, is the thing
mircea_popescu: so is atc.
greenspan_fan: there's a few things like mathematical breakthroughs re: hash functions or serious bugs in the client that could tank the price
mircea_popescu: definitely.
mircea_popescu: serious bugs not so much, really.
greenspan_fan: (or, if you prefer, value) and it's hard to account for those
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