Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-11-02 | 2013-11-04 → ↓
mod6: i agree on philosophy though. why build something that is dependant on something undereath? how does that get one somewhere?
asciilifeform: mod6: see, i tell people, 'trinary logic, clockless Muller gates, direct execution of high-level language.'
asciilifeform: and they say 'you're a nut. we wanna get stuff done Right Now.'
asciilifeform: software sucks because hardware sucks. 'you can't pour a bullet from shit.'
mod6: haha
ozbot: Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it.
mod6: i mean, the idea of a 'successor of unix' is appleaing to me, eventhough I <3 *nix (in general compared to whatever, windows). it would be amazing to have something abstracted to the level where it can handle physical systems and be virtualized too and be next gen
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mod6: lol asciilifeform
mod6: err assbot
asciilifeform: mod6: once you understand how much of what you presently know will be irrelevant (actually, harmful) after a serious rethinking of computing, you'll shit yourself.
asciilifeform: don't worry, not much risk of it actually happening in real life.
asciilifeform: just try telling people: 'yes, you'll have to throw away your RAM. and every line of code anyone's ever written.'
mod6: isn't it exciting?
asciilifeform: exciting, until you realize 1) it won't happen, and 2) it must
mod6: if it must, it will
asciilifeform: qwerty's still here.
asciilifeform: people will put up with astounding levels of dysfunction because 'they want to get things done.'
mod6: hahaha. yah but people are creatures of habit. but thats only because it's been allowed to persist. if people were only given type A new keyboard (dvorak) then that'd be used. kinda like only left hockey sticks in soivet union.
mod6: i never personally switched to dvorak because the friend that i have who did had the issue of trying to constantly switch everyone elses computer to dvorak if he wanted to use it.
mod6: muscle memory is a bitch
mod6: i guess this might not be relevant.
mod6: so what if we got to a point where we needed to throw everything existing away (now), how we would we proceed?
mod6: we'd simply only have a lesson in what not to do.
mod6: but we wouldn't have a map in what to do, only what not to do.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00082163 = 1.6843 BTC [-]
mod6: asciilifeform: so we must go back to the form of the turing machine or DFA to re-invent the modern os? or do you think even that must be re-thought because of the possibility of quantum computers?
mod6: ( i like this thread, even if it leads no-where in particular. just curious, searching for ideas. )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 103 @ 0.05263204 = 5.4211 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.05260001 = 0.526 BTC [-]
mod6: ahh i see your comment and reply in that article: I believe that efficiency in computer design is a false god. Give me an “inefficient” but responsive and “Seven-Laws Compliant” computer any day of the week in place of the monstrous PC, that race car which regards steering wheel input as mere advice and so eagerly speeds off cliffs and into embankments. << hahaha
mod6: i agree, there has to be a better way.
mod6: anyway, i guess i'll get back to it. thanks for the convo.
KRS1: oops
KRS1: lul
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.8795995 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 14 @ 0.0079 = 0.1106 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 912 @ 0.00082163 = 0.7493 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.87963928 = 8.7964 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 111 @ 0.007909 = 0.8779 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.15 = 0.45 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.389898 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.389899 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 6 @ 0.0599 = 0.3594 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00814571 = 0.8553 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.80173333 = 4.8104 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.00815 = 0.1304 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00081943 = 4.7117 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00765473 = 0.3062 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6037 @ 0.00081794 = 4.9379 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 304 @ 0.00109498 = 0.3329 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 500 @ 0.00109498 = 0.5475 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 267686 | Current Difficulty: 3.9092878763808584E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 268127 | Next Difficulty In: 441 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 511949177.601 | Estimated Percent Change: 30.95714
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4033 @ 0.00081943 = 3.3048 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.8 = 2.4 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16424 @ 0.00081844 = 13.4421 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00765194 = 0.8264 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 136 @ 0.00762073 = 1.0364 BTC [-] {3}
truffles: someone's internet is broken
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11383 @ 0.00082169 = 9.3533 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 179 @ 0.00273072 = 0.4888 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 30 @ 0.0078 = 0.234 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.77000005 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.75933333 = 11.39 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.0076502 = 0.8033 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00765009 = 0.8262 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 96 @ 0.0076501 = 0.7344 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00082101 = 1.642 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 2000 @ 0.00109498 = 2.19 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00081929 = 9.6676 BTC [-] {2}
Diablo-D3: Ukyo: hey, at some point can you delist DMC? the nov 1st deadline has passed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 628 @ 0.00109 = 0.6845 BTC [-]
Ukyo: what does the us user deadline have to do with DMC ?
Diablo-D3: Ukyo: I set it to the same date.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.00762 = 0.2819 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 179 @ 0.0072901 = 1.3049 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.002779 = 0.2779 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 100 @ 0.00109498 = 0.1095 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.77 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00081632 = 5.3877 BTC [-]
nubbins`: ;;seen KRS1
gribble: KRS1 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <KRS1> lul
nubbins`: ;;later tell KRS1 professionally, i've coded in VB.NET, C#, java, objective-c, plus web-dev-related things like html/xml, js, and sql
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: i actually have no idea how ;;later tell works, you know
nubbins`: and as a further response, i'd sooner put my eyes out than work in IT again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.77 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.77000005 = 2.31 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.00779982 = 0.2652 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
mod6: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 217.10102, Best ask: 217.68451, Bid-ask spread: 0.58349, Last trade: 217.10102, 24 hour volume: 5123.54629150, 24 hour low: 211.25000, 24 hour high: 218.00000, 24 hour vwap: 215.26331
nubbins`: yes now
nubbins`: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 218.00001, vol: 5143.70604610 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 206.20, vol: 6099.18382697 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 203.112, vol: 6443.37397 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 215.0, vol: 2431.08005992 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 199.00, vol: 188.94107072 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 213.1181982, vol: 7764.44100000 | Volume-weighted last average: 210.280682296
nubbins`: not too shabby
nubbins`: AM1 made it all the way to 0.88 earlier, i guess people are really expecting a lot of suckers to buy those new box erupters or whatever they're called
Jere_Jones: I'm not even sure those are new. Sounds suspiciously like 3 blades in a box to me.
nubbins`: priced suspiciously like 3 blades in a box, too
nubbins`: same bad idea with a different pretty bow on it
Jere_Jones: Don't get me wrong, I want ASICMiner to succeed. But I don't think the box is news.
nubbins`: i'm ambivalent about their success
nubbins`: do you want the banks who offered sub-prime mortgages to succeed?
nubbins`: take a moment to examine the parallels
Jere_Jones: In both cases, I believe my answer would be yes. Because my financial well-being is related to both.
nubbins`: your honesty is refreshing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.71795 = 14.359 BTC [-] {8}
Jere_Jones: I'm not *happy* about needing BoA to not fail. But I would be in a bad spot if it did.
nubbins`: i don't think that many of the people bleating in the AM threads on btctalk have the same level of clarity
nubbins`: in fact, if one were to suggest to them that they're attempting to enrich themselves to the direct detriment of others, they'd proably be very surprised
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.00729051 = 0.4593 BTC [-]
Jere_Jones: Let's be clear, I don't want BoA to succeed *because* they are issuing mortgages to people who can't afford them. I want BoA to succeed *because* they have my money.
Jere_Jones: And, as far as I can tell, there aren't any real good options when it comes to banks.
nubbins`: there's always credit unions, i guess
nubbins`: although i think the banking system in america is very different from here in canada.
nubbins`: we've got what, five or six banks? and a bunch of credit unions
Jere_Jones: We've got a ton of banks and they all suck.
Jere_Jones: Of course, the vast majority of them are really just fronts for the big ones. Switching to one of them would be the equivalent of switching from Sprint to Ting.
Jere_Jones: Different name. Same assholes.
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: and the oppressor grows larger still
ozbot: Look what came in the mail today. : Bitcoin
nubbins`: first comment, hahaha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 230 @ 0.00727665 = 1.6736 BTC [-] {4}
b0n1: :)
truffles: if only that bitcoin thing could be used as money
nubbins`: yes, if only
truffles: " a bitcoin condom machine.." that was a good one
nubbins`: there was a guy selling pregnancy tests on the forum
nubbins`: along with flush kits
truffles: not that many women on the internet
truffles: he is in for a bad time
truffles: oh wait nerds can has gf too nm
truffles: is nerd a negative word to nerds ?
truffles: i personally dont consider myself one ldo
pankkake: it's probably like nigga. nerds can say nerd
truffles: well some ppl like showing off their knowledge like on "king of the nerds" tv show
truffles: n word not on the same scale imo
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.0002445 = 0.3668 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0002445 = 0.2445 BTC [+]
truffles: well im not smart enough for the nerd title otherwise i see no probs with it, but ofc some ppl are sensitive about this stuff
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 246 @ 0.00109498 = 0.2694 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 360 @ 0.00109498 = 0.3942 BTC [+]
truffles: must sleep
benkay: nubbs how do you obtain food credits outside of IT these days?
nubbins`: i run a print studio
kakobrekla: did you do the snsa shirt?
nubbins`: printed them, yes. didn't design the image
nubbins`: agreed :D
kakobrekla: i heard im getting some!
benkay: bought some cardanos, kakobrekla?
nubbins`: ah! you must be one of the slovenia/slovakia packages i'm guessing?
kakobrekla: benkay not yet
kakobrekla: nubbins` yeah that one, somalia it was i reckon
benkay: i'm still mulling over how to integrate cardanos into my existing key mgmt scheme
nubbins`: i'm much more interested in flatstock than fabric these days
kakobrekla: like papery stuff?
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: paper, wood, w/e
kakobrekla: benkay yeah ill get one or two and then later figure out what to do with them
nubbins`: received a large order of paper on friday, can't wait to start testing it out
nubbins`: all 100% cotton. some of it is black :0
kakobrekla: cotton paper?
nubbins`: yep. acid-free, archival quality
nubbins`: none of this dead-tree bullshit ;)
kakobrekla: ok but you are not a treehugger or ?
nubbins`: no more so than the average sensible human
nubbins`: tree paper just isn't as nice
kakobrekla: well cotton is a bitch too
nubbins`: maybe so, but it makes fine paper
mod6: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 220.00000, Best ask: 220.09774, Bid-ask spread: 0.09774, Last trade: 220.00000, 24 hour volume: 7213.48975184, 24 hour low: 211.70001, 24 hour high: 220.09774, 24 hour vwap: 216.59082
kakobrekla: stamp is laging, not only teh cans and strings but teh price too
mod6: nice chart. someone has a pretty good bid in @ 195 on bitstamp.
mod6: well, guess its $193.03:
mod6: $193.03 3619.12508000 $698,599.71
nubbins`: oh my
nubbins`: never gonna get filled, that's just there to give people confidence that the ass isn't gonna fall out of it
Pantoo: I see ken was exaggerating about the SEC and mislead everyone who has been building off of his statement... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3430985#msg3430985
pankkake: ken mislead people? how surprising
Pantoo: hahaha
Pantoo: i was looking to see if he had said anything else about the SEC and noticed he made that update earlier. wonder how long till others notice
ozbot: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.78899999 = 1.578 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 8 @ 0.059 = 0.472 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 3500 @ 0.00109498 = 3.8324 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00081266 = 8.0453 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00081336 = 7.6863 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9074 @ 0.0008163 = 7.4071 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1000 @ 0.00109498 = 1.095 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00081258 = 7.3132 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 130 @ 0.00728141 = 0.9466 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: nubbins`: did you declare sufficiently high value for our watchful customs to intercept it and demand ransom?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.0072744 = 0.4583 BTC [-]
nubbins`: the postal clerk filled out all the customs forms for me. pretty sure they're all marked as "t-shirt", gift, no cash value
jurov: good. cuz americans like, in their blessed innocece, to declare $$$$ value and then it's headache
jurov: *innocence
nubbins`: i sold some poor EU guy a rare casascius coin a while back. he insisted on insuring it for its full value, and was very sad when he had to pay hundreds of dollars before they released his package
mircea_popescu: innocaecity
nubbins`: innococracy
pankkake: that's why I don't like to order stuff outside of the EU :/
mircea_popescu: btw i answered your comments noobins :D
pankkake: also stuff has a tendency to disappear at the border
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00759999 = 0.2356 BTC [+]
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: just finished; we're *all* misrepresenting the situation. the artists, the art dealers, the museum-going public, and every single person who commented on that post, yourself included. this is why "what is art" is an interesting topic for discussion; everyone colors it with their own experience.
mircea_popescu: no, you're all doing it except me.
mircea_popescu: you know this because i can enact my point in your system, but you can't enact your point in mine.
mircea_popescu: in all situations where a set of representations appears equivalent but one excludes all others, that's also the correct one, and the others are degenerate.
nubbins`: i'm still trying to figure out if i should determine the nature of your point or the nature of your system first!
mircea_popescu: lol good point.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.775 BTC [-]
nubbins`: anyway, certainly one of the more entertaining reads (article + comments) so far
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.77999998 = 3.9 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: By special request, the Imperial March on Kazoo - YouTube
nubbins`: *blink*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.7931355 = 5.5519 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: that's quite the outfit
mircea_popescu: it's kinda what i think when i hear star wars.
mircea_popescu: that guy.
nubbins`: a reasonable enough representation
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5899 @ 0.00021142 = 1.2472 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 826 @ 0.00081437 = 0.6727 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 17 @ 0.059 = 1.003 BTC [+]
jurov: the correct one, and the others are degenerate *rolls eyes*
mircea_popescu: jurov im super cereal.
nubbins`: i'm curious to know what your description of my system would be
jurov: "lurk moar"
mircea_popescu: he was asking you neh ?
nubbins`: nope, that was directed towards you
nubbins`: you can't claim to know a man's mind and not expect him to ask you to elaborate
mircea_popescu: ah. well i wouldn't know "your" system. what you've written so far is coherent with naive nominalism, ie the ideology of all youths. occam requires it be described as such.
mircea_popescu: (naive nominalism is the view that convention enacts existence, and thus forumers are "ceo"s and their harebrained schemes "companies")
mircea_popescu: that aside, there aren't really enough points given explicitly to make much of a call.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00726548 = 0.4359 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: and thus, random bozos are "artists"?
mircea_popescu: if you call them that.
nubbins`: if the random bozo creates something that i like, what else would i call him?
mircea_popescu: but there's a difference between calling a dude a nigger for convenience, as the shortest word available,
mircea_popescu: and calling a dude a nigger for racism.
nubbins`: i dunno, man. maybe i'm applying too much of my interpretation of your "system" into your words, but it seems like you're flat-out stating that it's not art unless someone in a position of power or influence over the artist decrees it to be so
mircea_popescu: no, i am flat out stating that.
nubbins`: and i find such a stance so bizarre that i'm not even sure where to begin picking it apart
nubbins`: about five years ago, i moved into an apartment and found a large piece of wall panelling with a picture painted on the back side of it. it's currently gracing the wall of my living room.
nubbins`: no name, no identifying marks whatsoever, no way for me to ever find out who made it or to contact them in any way
nubbins`: to propose that i hold any position relative to its creator, above or below, is simply nonsense
nubbins`: and yet, there it sits on my wall
nubbins`: unequivocally and inarguably a work of art
mircea_popescu: "unequivocally and inarguably a work of art" only in the republic of one constructed by your own living room, of which you are president.
nubbins`: my fucking point exactly
mircea_popescu: why do you expect solipsism to be considered by others ?
mircea_popescu: your problem, not apt to be brought to the forum.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, you may perhaps in time come to own a miniature of the eiffel tower, which you may emplace on your commode,
mircea_popescu: or in your rectum.
mircea_popescu: it'd be "the eiffel tower of my commode", but only inasmuch as you are concerned.
nubbins`: sure
mircea_popescu: it's not germane to call it "the eiffel tower" in conversation.
nubbins`: well, you're the one bringing definite articles into play
nubbins`: it's not THE art on my walls, it's A piece of art
mircea_popescu: yes, because i am the one discussing art,
mircea_popescu: not whatever irreelvant stuff you're personally dreaming up all for yourself.
mircea_popescu: the eiffel tower on yoru commode is not a piece of eiffel towers.
nubbins`: everything is irrelevant but the opinion of the observer
mircea_popescu: it has literally nothing to do with the eiffel tower.
nubbins`: yes.
nubbins`: universally, no
mircea_popescu: well so there you have it.
nubbins`: but as a matter of determining whether it's art, yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3216 @ 0.00081476 = 2.6203 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: there are qualifications needed to be an observer. you don't become an observer of the battle of thermopylae just by stating yourself as an observer
nubbins`: oh, you most certainly do
nubbins`: an observer needs no qualifications beyond the ability to observe
nubbins`: the validity of their observations can certainly be debated
mircea_popescu: this may be the best stating of the naive nominalism discussed above.
nubbins`: just as the validity of what my opinion of art is can be debated
mircea_popescu: you presume youy have the faculty to observe.
mircea_popescu: this presumption is wholly unsubstantiated.
nubbins`: art doesn't exist in a vacuum
nubbins`: you touched on this when you said it was inert
nubbins`: but that's just another way of questioning whether an event happens if there is no observer
nubbins`: trees falling, noises being made, etc
nubbins`: and that's fair in the sense that art is some sort of schrodinger's cat type thing
nubbins`: where it's neither art nor not-art until someone looks at it
mircea_popescu: nah, see, the equivocation at work here is that the requirements for being an observer in the foresrt with a falling tree are very low
nubbins`: but the difference here is that all can agree on whether or not a cat is dead
nubbins`: because that's quantifiable
mircea_popescu: one can't turn arround and expect all situations have equally low bars
nubbins`: none can agree on whether or not X is art
nubbins`: because it's simply not quantifiable
mircea_popescu: dexX7 jus' me an' my hat.
nubbins`: how many arts is Starry Night? how many arts is Fountain?
mircea_popescu: dexX7 whassat ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i dunno what cats have to do with this. is it an internet thing ?
dexX7: fringe is a us tv series
nubbins`: due to quantum physics gibberish, the cat is neither dead nor alive until observed
nubbins`: the natural extrapolation of your argument is that you can walk up to a woman weeping at the beauty of a painting, or of a spoken word, and politely inform her that what she has observed is, in fact, not art
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.15 = 0.9 BTC [-]
nubbins`: but the very fact that she weeps implies that she is having a strong emotional response to it
nubbins`: which in turn implies that she
nubbins`: oh fuck i smell smoke hold on
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you could slap her, or kidnap her to the same strong emotional response
mircea_popescu: "what literature pays best ?" "ransom notes"
mircea_popescu: more's the point : your example is counterfactual. i would never talk to some anodyne serf woman,
nubbins`: and there are those who would argue that such a kidnapping is "performance art"
mircea_popescu: you might as well propose the cancer walk in the front door one day and begin jacking off.
nubbins`: i disagree, but my disagreement merely illustrates my point
mircea_popescu: "jacking off" ?! it has no penis.
nubbins`: i'm merely offering the simplest explanation for the fact that there are so many things which some people call art and other people don't
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the miscasting as art as "that which yields emotional response" is roughly the reason trolling has become such a big deal culturally.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yes, but your explanation requires people be equal and interchangeable, which is beyond naive.
mircea_popescu: you might as well offer an explanation of art for spherical chickens that live in vacuums.
nubbins`: your explanation requires that some higher power declares X to be art and Y to be not-art
nubbins`: which is pretty lelly
nubbins`: suppose person X says "this sculpture i've commissioned is art" and person Y says "nay, you are my subject, and i declare it to be not-art"
nubbins`: well, obviously person Z (X and Y's superior) should be the REAL person to ask, right?
nubbins`: and so on and so on
nubbins`: and you arrive at the conclusion that art is declared by edict from god
nubbins`: or, y'know, occam's razor. it's art if i think it's art.
nubbins`: the obvious implication is that the words "to me" are inserted between "art" and "if"
mircea_popescu: except no one cares about any "to me" sentence. they're voiceless.
nubbins`: because there's no other way to quantify it, and if you can't quantify things, you certainly can't classify them
nubbins`: sure, but what does that change?
mircea_popescu: looky, this trick where you go "mpex is too hard, i don;'t understand it ; therefore we must all glbse because there's no other way to do it" isn't logically sound.
mircea_popescu: it is the avatar of youth, but so are many other illogical topoi
nubbins`: someone says a piss pot "is art to me". i don't care, because whether it's art to them has no bearing on whether it's art to me
mircea_popescu: the "to me" approach is unsound. this disqualifies it, perpetually and definitively.
mircea_popescu: the remainder is the "to whom ?" approach, which reduces to social hierarchy.
mircea_popescu: no problem here.
nubbins`: art acts on people. without "to me", it does not exist
mircea_popescu: you presume all action is with the voluntary subjection fo the subject
mircea_popescu: this may be true, but the subjection needn't be conscious.
nubbins`: agreed
mircea_popescu: you don't discuss surgery in terms of the subjective impressions of patients. a similar discussion of any other craft is similarly out of place.
mircea_popescu: obviously the surgeons are surgeons by decree rather than because "people" feel surgeonized by them
nubbins`: surgery definitely falls into the realm of the quantifiable.
mircea_popescu: only in the minds of people who have no idea what it is.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact it's about as vague as art.
mircea_popescu: which is why malpraxis is such a mess.
nubbins`: "you're cured if i say you're cured"
mircea_popescu: exactly.
nubbins`: "it's art if i tell you it's art"
mircea_popescu: if and only if, when and only when.
nubbins`: "i'm cured if my condition is gone"
mircea_popescu: does the oncology patient go "all is well doc, i feel cured" ?
nubbins`: "it's art if i say it's art"
mircea_popescu: no, they go o please divine my fortunes, good master.
nubbins`: "cured" has nothing to do with feeling
mircea_popescu: it's quite a case of "you're cured if and when i say you're cured".
nubbins`: art has much to do with it
mircea_popescu: with feeling, perhaps. with conscious feeling rarely.
mircea_popescu: when i say "it's art because X feels Y" i may be right. when you say "it's art because I feel Y" you're certain to be wrong.
nubbins`: mp says it's art because nubbins wept, vs nubbins says it's art because nubbins wept
mircea_popescu: to be formal,
nubbins`: same conclusion, different route
mircea_popescu: mp said it's art, and it makes nubbins weep, vs nubbins thinks it;'s art because that's why he thinks he wept
mircea_popescu: these are not the same. and for that matter the latter's logically unsound.
mircea_popescu: (in nubbins' instance, not in the general form)
nubbins`: you changed your example a bit there
nubbins`: you went from "because x feels y" to "and x feels y"
nubbins`: mp said it's art because it makes nubbins weep, or mp said it's art and it makes nubbins weep?
mircea_popescu: there is no because in the correct statement. in fact, we can judge how good a nubbins you are by how adequately you weep when art is presented
mircea_popescu: NOT the other way around, judge art by how it "makes" you weep or not.
nubbins`: well, obviously it's not the art but nubbins himself that is the cause of the weeping
nubbins`: but let's not get tangled up
mircea_popescu: this naive "man at center of everything" goes well with the naive nominalism, but it's quite as nutty.
nubbins`: let's examine "mp said it's art"
nubbins`: presumably mp has criteria?
mircea_popescu: none of your business as they may be,.
mircea_popescu: presumably he does.
nubbins`: sure. nevertheless, we can presume that he does
nubbins`: we can also presume that nubbins also has criteria
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00081405 = 20.3105 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: as a facile counterpoint, why not?
mircea_popescu: because it's not only facile, but wrong.
nubbins`: surely there must be something that makes mp a good judge and nubbins a poor one?
mircea_popescu: mp is one of the lords. he makes art be. of course we can presume anything.
nubbins`: ahahaha
mircea_popescu: nubbins is no such lord. we're going to have to explain why we presume.
nubbins`: it's art by holy edict!
mircea_popescu: that's the point of the article.
nubbins`: you're a complicated man
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> surely there must be something that makes mp a good judge and nubbins a poor one? << this implies that perhaps nubbins could move upwards in society, and contains implicit an equivalency of substance between the two. this isn't an accepted point between us.
mircea_popescu: so if it's true, you'll have to prove it.
nubbins`: ^ this implies that there's a ladder we're both on and you're above me on it
nubbins`: so if it's true, you'll have to prove it.
mircea_popescu: well not you and me personally
mircea_popescu: but the icons we're discussing
nubbins`: any two people
nubbins`: sure
mircea_popescu: i have to prove naught. i just make the art be art.
nubbins`: so you pop into someone's house, point to a painting, and say "actually that's not art at all", and thus it was never art
mircea_popescu: how would mp and nubbins socially interract ?
nubbins`: i'm not sure we would
mircea_popescu: i pop into someone's house by the intermediate agency of his wife which is now my slave
mircea_popescu: and she throws out all their old shit cause now she knows better.
mircea_popescu: "you know what ? my old junk wasn't art at all"
nubbins`: that could happen without any outside influence
nubbins`: and indeed it does, all the fucking time
nubbins`: in fact, it even happens in the other direction!
nubbins`: "hey, y'know, this album is actually pretty good"
nubbins`: "this drawing has really grown on me"
mircea_popescu: but this has little to do. you were discussing a particular application of the theory, with what i took as a view to reduce it to absurd.
nubbins`: everything is absurd.
mircea_popescu: i've shown the approach not to really work, we can move on
nubbins`: of course, absurdity is a spectrum
nubbins`: the entire sphere of art rests squarely on the more
mircea_popescu: the curse of this particular equalitarian-nominalism ogre is that it can't really make stateemnts.
nubbins`: "absurd" end of that spectrum
nubbins`: well, obviously, if you take my view, all art is a bit of a beat-off
nubbins`: an absurd, senseless beat-off
nubbins`: if one chooses to make himself an authority in such an arena, well, so be it
ozbot: Where's John K?
nubbins`: but he deceives himself if he thinks he can avoid becoming part of the beat-off
nubbins`: after all, what's a bigger beat-off than "i'm the guy who sez what's art and what's not"?
nubbins`: it's enough to make your sides ache.
mircea_popescu: you know that seinfeld episode when george is pitching to the network nubbins ?
nubbins`: vague recollection, specifics are lost in the haze
mircea_popescu: "so what's this idea ?" "it's nothing" "Then why am I watching it ?" "because it's on tv" "not yet."
mircea_popescu: that's it right there. i'm the guy who sez.
nubbins`: not the best analogy
nubbins`: tv has gatekeepers
nubbins`: you wanna air a tv show, you need the permission of your master
nubbins`: you wanna paint something or write a song, you're limited only by your own level of ambition
mircea_popescu: ah, and "art" is free,
mircea_popescu: you just put it on etsy ?
nubbins`: etsy has listing fees ;)
mircea_popescu: but this sort of drawer novel, as it was known, doesn't exist in the sense of art.
mircea_popescu: it exists in the sense of masturbation, or w/e the author does in his privacy.
nubbins`: so it's art if it reaches an audience of a certain size
mircea_popescu: think of an old painting being discovered in a stahs. what is the question first and foremost asked ? is it something as to the paionting itself or is it as to the pedigree of the owner ?
mircea_popescu: nobody goes "i found a 500 year old kinda cool painting"
mircea_popescu: it only matters once it becomes "an old da vinci has been discovered"
mircea_popescu: audience has nothing to do with it. this is wholly a medieval-inspired problem of probatory.
nubbins`: it matters to more people if it's an old davinci or what have you
mircea_popescu: if the shipwreck survivor found is a noble or a peasant, not if he owns a lot of farms and what havd you
nubbins`: but that doesn't preclude it mattering to anyone
mircea_popescu: if you insist to hold the utopian view.
nubbins`: oh, but i do!
nubbins`: we're all floating in a void
mircea_popescu: well the advantage of holding nonsense views (which utopianisms are by definiton) is that anything can be derived from them.
mircea_popescu: any conclusion is available to the inconsistent set of premises.
nubbins`: the magazines at the grocery store tell me that kim kardashian is very worthy of my attention, but that's simply false
nubbins`: well, yes.
nubbins`: what's more nonsense than debating whether or not something is art?
mircea_popescu: there can be no such debate.
nubbins`: or whether or not X or Y is a criteria for defining it?
mircea_popescu: art is art. you disagree, you may be punished by your lord. end of story.
nubbins`: or whether or not art exists?
nubbins`: or whether person X or person Y is an authority on the subject?
nubbins`: unadulterated nonsense, all of it
mircea_popescu: so if you don't really wish to discuss art, why are you ?
nubbins`: regardless of a self-appointed lord's opinion
nubbins`: if i didn't wish to discuss it, i wouldn't. this is great.
nubbins`: you assume that people don't wish to discuss nonsense
nubbins`: the length of this exchange implies otherwise
mircea_popescu: lol no, you can't "Discuss" nonsense. to discuss a topic you have to renounce nonsense.
mircea_popescu: if you wish to wallow in nonsense you're stuck doing it by yourself
mircea_popescu: whether you get some others to do the same in your general proximity is irrelevant, everyone's still doing it by himself.
mircea_popescu: bukkake like
nubbins`: nonsense. you've been talking nonsense with me for like two hours.
mircea_popescu: wait till i publish it :)
nubbins`: wait til i draw it ;)
mircea_popescu: cool, go for it!
mircea_popescu: ima add it to the article
nubbins`: great, gimme an hour
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.38989799 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: here you go.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 9 @ 0.059 = 0.531 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.007265 = 0.1162 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 24 @ 0.00726401 = 0.1743 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: gotta ask putin.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 44 @ 0.00725763 = 0.3193 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: that's the best representation of our conversation that i could come up with
mircea_popescu: just in time!
nubbins`: phew!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.15 = 0.3 BTC [-]
nubbins`: signed, numbered prints available; bare walls are for boors ;)
ozbot: You want to see reactionary ? I’ll show you reactionary. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 116 @ 0.00277899 = 0.3224 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.79699306 = 7.9699 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: made it a couple of paragraphs in before realizing that i already knew how the conversation would go
mircea_popescu: now you know how i feel.
nubbins`: to a point, perhaps ;)
nubbins`: now you know why i leave the drawing to others
mircea_popescu: actually i think it wasn't bad.
mircea_popescu: think about it : the first of your productions to be art,
mircea_popescu: as enacted by trilema.
nubbins`: unfortunately, not the first
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143 @ 0.00081717 = 0.1169 BTC [+]
nubbins`: although certainly the first time it's been featured in someone else's blog
pankkake: wow pretty good drawing. i think I would have trouble with the teeth
pankkake: you must be a real artist
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.79 BTC [-]
nubbins`: not sure, you'd have to ask mp
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1000 @ 0.001091 = 1.091 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1125 @ 0.001091 = 1.2274 BTC [-]
nubbins`: anyway, it doesn't even really matter what the specifics look like. it's all about layout on the page
nubbins`: how it reads
nubbins`: that's the first thing people see
bitcoin349: If the rat is on their computer from when I sent it without hiding my ip then I uninstall it before wiretransfering funds through bitcoin on a virtual machine with different settings and hiding ip on 3 layers would I be traced or would their not be a log in the ISP of the info about the rat.
dub: naturally
Kleeck_: How is your VM getting out to the internet, bitcoin349?
dub: how dare you ask such personal questions
Kleeck_: "_(
dub: rats are very private animals
dub: respect that privacy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00082024 = 3.6911 BTC [+]
Kleeck_: "Rats. I hate rats."
mircea_popescu: ;;google 7 proxies
gribble: Good Luck, I'm Behind 7 Proxies | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/good-luck-im-behind-7-proxies>; 7 Proxies - Encyclopedia Dramatica: <https://encyclopediadramatica.es/7_Proxies>; [ubuntu] 7 Proxies? - Ubuntu Forums: <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1679056>
mircea_popescu: 3 is wholly insufficient.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 900 @ 0.000243 = 0.2187 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00082258 = 10.0766 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.0073031 = 0.7303 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.79733002 = 4.784 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4565 @ 0.00082655 = 3.7732 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 520 @ 0.00024449 = 0.1271 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2380 @ 0.0002445 = 0.5819 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.0075499 = 0.234 BTC [+]
benkay: this art discussion, yo
benkay: ain't nothing to it, really
benkay: the only opinions as what matter terribly are those as what emanate from the powerful
benkay: which is baseline true
benkay: it's like the f=ma of power dynamics
mircea_popescu: i been tryin to tell him
benkay: i did find the line about equivalency between aesthetic value and caloric value amusing
benkay: and i only deploy capital against aesthetic things when it's going to have some sort of caloric return. eg: "babe, take this small pile of capital and deploy it making this space look nice. that way when clients come by they won't be horrified by my abysmal decoration and might actually be impressed by my aesthetic committee's performance"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.1251 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00277899 = 0.1112 BTC [-]
nubbins`: so you pay someone to buy art to put in your home or office or w/e in order to not appear like the sort of person who would be perfectly content inside a grey cube
nubbins`: in that context, yes, i suppose you'd only have the opinion of the "powerful" on which to rely
mircea_popescu: burn the heretical unbeliever!
nubbins`: some of us demand more from our surroundings!
mircea_popescu: like better masking for the impact of power.
nubbins`: "man, this benkay guy must employ someone who has really good taste in art"
benkay: nubs, why u mad, brizzo?
nubbins`: i thought we were all mad here
benkay: there's some irony in there.
nubbins`: best cure for anemia
benkay: i exercise veto all the time, man. neural nets need feedback to work correctly.
benkay: can't be arsed to go shopping though
benkay: very definitely a delegable task.
benkay: on an entirely different topic, i fly to argentina tomorrow. i'd be glad to act as a proxy in buenos aires for, you know, not *anyone*, but people in this channel with btc-related inquiries
nubbins`: honestly, the concept of going shopping for art hadn't occurred to me until now
nubbins`: you do it like you'd shop for pants or a new shower curtain or whatever?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.81424999 = 16.285 BTC [+] {4}
benkay: nubbins`: when a thing strikes me as being of high quality, i generally submit it to the aesthetics comittee for discussion and then instruct said aesthetes to purchase the thing
benkay: unless they have cogent reasons for to not, obviously.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.05410003 = 0.541 BTC [-]
benkay: (high quality and, you know, appeals to my taste etc)
benkay: but occasionally i find myself confronted by a wall insufficiently arted
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.84799165 = 5.0879 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.848 = 4.24 BTC [+]
thestrin1puller: nubbins` lol
thestrin1puller: you cray cray
benkay: cray like fox.
thestrin1puller: cray like kendrick lamar yo yo
thestringpuller: gold for BTC, perfect way to launder
nubbins`: pdftk is a great program
thestringpuller: sexy sexy
benkay: the bounce is back
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.05989999 = 0.599 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00024449 = 1.2225 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 500 @ 0.00109498 = 0.5475 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.859 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.86 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 112 @ 0.00277899 = 0.3112 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 94 @ 0.0075985 = 0.7143 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.87 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.86 = 8.6 BTC [-]
benkay: "commodity backed cryptocurrency"
benkay: given that i can take my buttcorns down to ye local banker and turn them into commodities, this is idiocy on idiocy, right?
benkay: "so far"?
benkay: meaning in the absence of a functional commodity-backed cc?
mircea_popescu: what you've said so far
mircea_popescu: mebbe there's more to it ?
benkay: not by my parsing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.73100011 BTC [-]
benkay: just thinking about the concept shows it riddled with the holes of weak minds
benkay: how does one trust the issuer of such cc to back it fully and not descend into fractional reserve behavior?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.0599 = 0.1198 BTC [+]
benkay: i'm still trying to formulate an argument against people who hold that bitcoin is fiat currency
benkay: 'cause "it's backed by math, idiot" isn't working
dub: erryday I hear, 'no really what are you really cracking'
benkay: i find myself trying to convince people of stuff again dammit :(
benkay: dub: as in "are you on crack"?
mircea_popescu: da fuck is "bitcoin is fiat currency" supposed to mean ?
benkay: i think the implication is that it's a currency by consensus
mike_c: it doesn't mean anything. What they mean when they say it is that it isn't backed by anything of value. you know, like gold.
benkay: which is moronic given that all currencies are only such by consensus
opc0d3: ofmogmozgml0lgz
benkay: enlighten me opc0d3
mike_c: it's one of those arguments that when you hear it, your ears start to bleed a little.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4796 @ 0.00084784 = 4.0662 BTC [+]
opc0d3: ICBIT.se 0% fees. mpex is going down the drain. ICBIT.se 2 years of rock solid trusted service. ICBIT.se futures much better then MPEX garbage with 40BTC signup fee
opc0d3: MPEX going to zero. how do i short MPEX. +1 ICBIT.se
opc0d3: that is all.
opc0d3: I doubled my BTC buying futures at ICBIT.se, the greatest and largest futures exchange of all time
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 49 @ 0.002779 = 0.1362 BTC [+]
nubbins`: art by consensus
benkay: opc0d3: what's the options volume on icbit?
opc0d3: 4:1 leverage. best way to make money with exchange rate going up
mike_c: went from 1 btc to 2? congrats!
benkay: nubbins`: art because your lord said so. money by the same.
opc0d3: benkay: 170,000 volume on the futures contracts
nubbins`: benkay: i'm not the one with an aesthetics subcommittee.
benkay: it's not a subcommittee, it only reports to me.
mircea_popescu: start there.
nubbins`: consider the statement suitably modified
nubbins`: art by fiat!
mircea_popescu: i suppose the entire "bitcoin is fiat" argument fails to comprehend that the only true scarcity is mathematical in nature.
mircea_popescu: you can't get another number four.
benkay: i would put the a.c. outside for the night if that hit my radar unsolicited.
asciilifeform: what's next? some joker will say that an AK round is 'fiat' currency?
benkay: (^^ nubbins`)
asciilifeform: 'barrel doesn't /have/ to be 7.62mm! fiat!'
opc0d3: mircea_popescu: so you claim that they sell fake contracts down to force people into margin calls?? doubt it. i've been trading there for 4 months, in the black significantly, (im on this list https://icbit.se/WebTrade/top.aspx ) and have made multiple withdrawls.
opc0d3: Tycho is an ADMIN at bitcointalk and very trusted and is one of the owners.
benkay: admin at bitcointalk
benkay: well then give him all your isk
mike_c: no, an ADMIN
nubbins`: admin AT BITCOINTALK
opc0d3: mircea_popescu: sounds like you're just bitter that they had thin volume and someone traded against you
benkay: amazing options
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
opc0d3: point is, he's trusted
mircea_popescu: opc0d3 don't be an idiot. that article is older than your involvement in "finance".
opc0d3: laugh all you want. its like laughing at using John K for escrow.. you sound like idiots
pankkake: > trusting a website with urls in .aspx
nubbins`: trust by fiat
opc0d3: mircea_popescu: they have more volume now. you obviously bought futures in a thin market, and it moved against you.
mircea_popescu: i love it when 4 month old muppets imagine their short lifespan compensates for 2year+ history.
mike_c: is he kidding? or did john k show his face again?
nubbins`: pankkake: there's nothing stopping that from being a renamed .jspx ;)
mircea_popescu: opc0d3 mpex had months over 1mn btc nominal.
opc0d3: they're only getting bigger and bigger... so laugh all you want
mircea_popescu: the difference is that mpex uses actual figures, rather than running this thinly veiled scam you do.
opc0d3: ICBIT.se is the most legitimate futures exchange right now, and the largest.... so laugh at their success
mircea_popescu: they get bigger and bigger each year.
opc0d3: 0% fees also
mircea_popescu: then they magically don't have the dough to pay the winners, and go into a cone of darkness for a half year
mircea_popescu: then they hire some five cent an hour muppets and are again alll sucess and bigger and bigger.
mircea_popescu: and again and again.
mircea_popescu: unregulated markets have various advantages, among which the existence of such idiocy.
opc0d3: mircea_popescu: it's in your interest to slander you competitors. so, forgive me if I call you on your FUD and BS
benkay: "don't have the dough to pay the winners"
benkay: sauce?
mircea_popescu: benkay the article quoted, and there's periodic such reports on bitcointalk
mircea_popescu: last one was about 3 months or so. magically, his position was executed 10% under market.
Apocalyptic: opc0d3, ICBIT.se ? never heard of that
mircea_popescu: and to clarify, opc0d3 , you don't get to come in after a coupla years and call established fact "fud" and "bs".
mircea_popescu: if nothing else, because there's little doubt and even less uncertainity involved.
opc0d3: Apocalyptic: its the largest Futures exchange, and they have 0% trading fees right now... its awesome
benkay: ;;getrating opc0d3
benkay: ;;gettrust opc0d3
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user opc0d3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=opc0d3 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=opc0d3 | Rated since: never
benkay: ah well there ya go
opc0d3: MPEX is upset that they've stolen market share so they tried to slander them
benkay: come back with a wot identity opc0d3
opc0d3: too lazy
opc0d3: maybe later
benkay: a telling response.
mircea_popescu: benkay you're just angry because he's stealing your wot share.
Apocalyptic: well the fact site is running on ASP makes me chuckle a bit
opc0d3: mircea_popescu: even though i think you're full of shit.... your picture on that horse is hilarious. +1
mircea_popescu: opc0d3 you don't have what to think i'm full of shit with.
nubbins`: hey, asp *dot net*!
pankkake: oh a webchat user, the advance sign of retardation
nubbins`: there's an "x" in those extensions!
opc0d3: Apocalyptic: yeah, funny that most of the worlds corporate software runs on .NET , i wonder why multi-billion dollar companies use .NET... what idiots@!!
Apocalyptic: do they ? i feel more secure running a linux server honestly
Apocalyptic: but what do I know...
nubbins`: they do.
opc0d3: only idiots would buy windows. That Mircosoft company must be worthless.... let me check
pankkake: you know, multi billion dollar companies aren't a very good example of competence or efficiency
opc0d3: $300B market cap!
benkay: inertia, mostly.
benkay: and what's the fb market cap? and their competence/business acumen?
opc0d3: pankkake: doesn't mean that running a .NET site is stupid or bad idea.
pankkake: you'll figure it out when you get out of school
opc0d3: i run linux on all my servers. but can tell you from experience that big corps prefer MSFT
Apocalyptic: opc0d3, they "prefer" that's it
mircea_popescu: this is progressing nicely.
Apocalyptic: doesn't mean anything about the value of the product
opc0d3: you guys are lemmings to laugh at .NET
opc0d3: linux fanboys
mircea_popescu: opc0d3 where have you learned to win friends and influence people ?
mircea_popescu: it wasn't steve ballmer was it.
nubbins`: see, the thing is: coca-cola can afford to pay for gold-tier support contracts, so they can use .NET and if it breaks (which it doesn't), they have a big red telephone they can pick up to get it fixed
opc0d3: i personally don't use any MSFT products, but would never be so idiotic to laugh at developers that do
nubbins`: some random btc-related website likely doesn't have any sort of gold-tier anything
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 99 @ 0.0075988 = 0.7523 BTC [+]
nubbins`: and so if something breaks (it will), they're fucked until they figure out how to fix it
opc0d3: +1 nubbins
nubbins`: THAT SAID
mircea_popescu: nubbins` except a fictitious exchange with no volume could be just as well run off dreamweaver.
opc0d3: nah. .NET deployments are usually much more stable then linux ones
nubbins`: the support community around .NET is just as massive as the one around any other web dev technology
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: notepad, even
Apocalyptic: opc0d3, out of curiosity when was this trading plateform launched ?
mircea_popescu: it was, in 2001. maybe 2005.
mircea_popescu: it's nowhere near today.
opc0d3: what a load of BS>... ICBIT is not 'fictitious' nor does it have no volume.... so much misinformation and lies in here
opc0d3: you're just pissed you have competition -- successful competition
nubbins`: ah, i haven't worked with .NET since around 2005-07
dub: tycho is that guy that forgot how to run a pool yeah?
benkay: opc0d3 - it's an echo chamber in here. don't get butthurt.
mircea_popescu: opc0d3 dude, every mayfly in the book has said the exact same thing about me.
mircea_popescu: read moar.
nubbins`: left it behind when WCF started getting pushed
mircea_popescu: nubbins` from what i hear you weren't alone
opc0d3: benkay: MP talks, and pankkake echo's , seems like
nubbins`: the years of sharepoint development sucked my soul out, but being forced to move to WCF was the straw that broke me
opc0d3: a cute little parrot on his shoulder
pankkake: what you don't understand is that there is only one person here
mircea_popescu: opc0d3 you know you could save yourself a lot of embarassment by reviewing the logs for a few days before blindly jumping in.
nubbins`: everyone else is a robot
mircea_popescu: an approach which actually would make your life better in every aspect.
mike_c: then you would know how to identify art.
benkay: what ams art?
benkay: r options art?
pankkake: please not again :(
mircea_popescu: mike_c by the way, you do have a point.
benkay: i am making put arts
nubbins`: it's art if i publish it
nubbins`: should we get eskimo bob in here?
mircea_popescu: while the opex system works great in every aspect as it is, the underwriter has no actual way to verify when they were executed in fact.
mircea_popescu: so for all they know i could be making shit up.
mike_c: yes :)
asciilifeform: opc0d3: there are no people here. just a script, running on a PDP-8 drywalled into a closet, door painted over, at NSA campus.
mircea_popescu: it somehow never occured to me, this.
mircea_popescu: i'm lucky i'm not the only person reading these logs, it turns out. anyway, we're in the process of arguing about it.
mike_c: ah, glad to hear.
benkay: i think i have wondered at this myself
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0076 = 0.304 BTC [+]
benkay: ("me too! me too!")
mike_c: i will share all the prize money with you benkay
benkay: mircea_popescu: what do you think about ludwig von mises?
mircea_popescu: as what, a main course meal ?
benkay: you eat men
benkay: dear dog save us all
nubbins`: there is no dog
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, much more of an economist than a philosopher, for instance.
nubbins`: there is only natas!
benkay: nah i have two weeks of reading and boozing and wenching coming up and i want something meaty
benkay: something that'll stick to my brainbones
benkay: i've lined up the modern money theory stuff on the premise that coming through that'll inoculate me against some brands of idiocy
mircea_popescu: dubious proposition.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00759988 = 0.76 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: best stick to fiction
mircea_popescu: seeing how its entire appeal is constructed by ceaseless repeating
benkay: okay noted
mircea_popescu: the sad thing of money is that nobody really wrote of it well.
mircea_popescu: it's like this supermistress of most accomplished lures which goes wholly forgotten and ignored to the grave,
mircea_popescu: because the sort of men she loved and loved her back were too busy doing to harp about it.
benkay: (doing it)
benkay: i suspect i alreaady understand mises work just from the subtitle of that one book
benkay: how the middle way leads to socialism, bad policies following bad policies etc
mircea_popescu: instead phthisic "women" captive in the bodies of little boys like all the various utopian facets of socialism get tons of idyllic literature fashioned
mircea_popescu: by the sort of idle, pointless virgins that'd be interested in such crap.
benkay: plato, then?
mircea_popescu: btw pankkake you're doing a very small amount of parroting over here! i thought we had a deal!
pankkake: I need to insult you more
pankkake: or something
mircea_popescu: the one problem with these kids is... they have no endurance.
pankkake: I haven't read your latest blog stuff so I have nothing to disagree with
mircea_popescu: ten minutes later they're gone. how's one supposed to have fun ;/
mircea_popescu: hey opc0d3 come back! we weren't done!@
pankkake: well he probably came earlier and will come back later. I wonder why he picked me, I wasn't even parroting this time
nubbins`: once the conversation turned to books, i began silently lamenting my inability to finish reading one hundred years of solitude
pankkake: though it felt that way other times
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.389 BTC [-]
pankkake: I don't understand futures, options, and have no idea what icbit is :)
nubbins`: voodoo gibberish, stay away
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.0076999 = 0.1925 BTC [+]
benkay: black finance magic of the destroy economies kind
benkay: only allowed on buttcoin black markets
mircea_popescu: it's basically bitcoinica minus the relic hunting.
pankkake: "savage capitalism" as your socialists say
mircea_popescu: i don't recall now if it was written as a bitcoinica envy clone or not.
benkay: hey mircea_popescu what were you implying the other day when you queried for the s.mg price and then made a comment about an in-game thing?
pankkake: somehow when I see savage I think of a horse running free in the grass
pankkake: so I'm ok with that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 121 @ 0.00109498 = 0.1325 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: benkay just idle comment that the volume was apparently up
mircea_popescu: or i don't recall which
benkay: i'd started imagining game/stock tie-ins
benkay: hey mircea_popescu you have some education to perform: https://twitter.com/rabois/status/397075060499812352
mircea_popescu: what's the rush.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 193 @ 0.00769996 = 1.4861 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: joel spolsky
pankkake: it's part of his strategy though
pankkake: not posting stupid shit on twitter
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 0.05989999 = 0.2396 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: actually i think there's a rss to twitter feed.
dub: speaking of education
dub: groundbreaking stuff
mircea_popescu: mike_c probably not count because engineers aren't "successfull ceos".
mircea_popescu: or because july isn't current. or w/e.
benkay: dub: i wanted it to have a badbios
nubbins`: your chinese takeout box has had a badbios this whole time
dub: tl;dr? seen it mentioned a few times today
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