Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-05-06 | 2019-05-08 → ↓
mp_en_viaje: fucking cold snap in yurp, brrr.
mp_en_viaje: it's like 8 here. i had to cut my belgrade stay, wtf may! i r disappoint!
diana_coman: about 14 degrees here in suddenly-sunny england, lolz; tbf at 6am there were only 8-9 but that's ...refreshing at that hour.
mp_en_viaje: it's still maybe 10.
diana_coman: well, spring, unpredictable.
mp_en_viaje: seems insane for may. even in the snowy north im from.
diana_coman: cluj is snowy north? ahahaha
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, well ? no olive trees / figs grow there yes ? that's the criteria.
diana_coman: no penguins, arctic foxes and northern lights there either, according to the other-side criteria
diana_coman: ahahah "giant of fun, adventure and science"
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/rastko-nemanja-and-things-like-that-somewhat/ << Trilema -- Rastko Nemanja and things like that (somewhat)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lol, cluj is on same parallel as asciilifeform's homeworld. what 'snowy north' .
BingoBoingo thought http://trilema.com/2013/fire-in-alabama-lets-make-the-most-of-it/ is the cannon shot, but is the cannon seat.
BingoBoingo: lobbes: Seems auction bot has run away and stayed away
PeterL: so how does the auction work if auctionbot disappears? Wasn't it supposed to be ending about now?
asciilifeform: PeterL: i expect we'll find out, when lobbes resets the bot, whether it handles this case correctly
a111: Logged on 2019-05-07 14:37 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lol, cluj is on same parallel as asciilifeform's homeworld. what 'snowy north' .
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, holy hell, you born librarian you. pretty sure that's it!
PeterL: asciilifeform: what would haldling correctly look like? it just declares the last bid it saw as the winner, or extend the auction based on the time it missed?
asciilifeform: imho oughta extend. otherwise vulnerable to some pretty ugly strange (say, there's just 1 lowball bid, and then fleanode drops the bot until end, etc)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc you had a much older alabama piece, with moar photo of same item, also
mp_en_viaje: possibru
asciilifeform: in other lulz, microshit w10 nao ships with optional 'linux kernel'.
asciilifeform: dunno why this took 20yrs from the famous 'embrace & extinguish' leaked memo, but there it is.
asciilifeform: !!up lobbes_field
deedbot: lobbes_field voiced for 30 minutes.
lobbes_field: Ty asciilifeform
lobbes_field: Sry about auctionbot downtime. I shoulda checked before I left for the mines. Will bring back online tonight
lobbes_field: Data is safe, auctions and bids preserved
lobbes_field: As for extending, it seems that the bot went down with 12 hours left, so I could easily extend it another 12
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^ plox to comment
lobbes_field: In either case will not charge BingoBoingo the traditional fees for this auction due to all the derpage
lobbes_field: *I will not charge (this pjhone "keyboard" is truly maddening)
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell lobbes Another 24 hours is probably better than 12.
BingoBoingo: Give everyone around the clock a chance to bid
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I could have swore seeing a picture from the same angle on a trilema post somewhere.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> imho oughta extend. otherwise vulnerable to some pretty ugly strange (say, there's just 1 lowball bid, and then fleanode drops the bot until end, etc) << Also there's the 90's Ebay factor. People counting on doing bidding during the final stretch.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in speshul heathen lulz, https://archive.is/wMhh2
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/portuguese-national-flying-mirage-jet-downed-in-libya-by-general-haftars-forces/ << Qntra -- Portuguese National Flying Mirage Jet Downed In Libya By General Haftar's Forces
BingoBoingo: ^ For the burden of keeping fighter jets file
mp_en_viaje: spyked, chock-full. though it's unclear to me how you reason re "having beaches", and in any case the fucking of eastern girls was more the 90s than the 70s.
mp_en_viaje: nobody fucked anybody in the 70s.
asciilifeform: 'в СССР секса нет!'(tm)(r)
mp_en_viaje: quite so.
mp_en_viaje: it's easy to play along and pretend, "oh, there's all these people getting their dick sucked nowadays, it's almost as if mine's sucked too", electron-cloud sorta reasoning.
mp_en_viaje: nevertheless, large objects are discrete, no quantum mechanics applies. as a factual matter, ~nobody had any fucking sex until we came around and taught teens to shave the bush etc, late 80s.
mp_en_viaje: there ~was~ some ongoing bestiality previously, engaged mostly dressed, with the light off and the eyes closed -- in any perspective a shameful act.
asciilifeform: iirc ancient egypt was into shaving, iirc
asciilifeform: possibly elsewhere ditto
asciilifeform: or wat, it still 'aint sex' unless under blue led lamp, in suspension swing made of purest 1060 aluminum ?
BingoBoingo: Welcome back auctionbot
lobbes: !Xview 1047
lobbes: ah whoops, need to voice it. one sec
lobbes: !Xview 1047
auctionbot: Buy order # 1047: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Opening: 154mn ecu Leading Bid: 106mn ecu Ending: 2019-05-08 11:56:28.887251 UTC (24 hours 18 mins)
lobbes: BingoBoingo extended 24hrs ^^
lobbes: sorry again for teh inconvenience
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell pete_dushenski Contravex doesn't seem to be loading normally
lobbes: hm, lemme get the lobbesbot back
BingoBoingo: Ah, I forgot you split the bots
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, well what, ancient history now ?
mp_en_viaje: sure, rome had the fux.
asciilifeform: rright but mp_en_viaje orig. made it sound as if fux were a recent discovery, like vlsi, lol
mp_en_viaje: well, recent in modern world.
mp_en_viaje: like warm water bath.
asciilifeform grunting out a wp colorizer mode for peh, and it's maddening, php is ~undebuggable garbage
asciilifeform: just like perl, if you violate some expectation of orig author's, you get arbitrary barf, rather than eggog even.
mp_en_viaje: examples ?
asciilifeform: difficult to give meaningful example w/out detailing the MB+ pile of shit that is the plugin. simply, config written seemingly according to docs, but there is html barfola in the output.
mp_en_viaje: possibru problem is not php but the plugin
asciilifeform: but it being ~in~ php makes the thing undebuggable.
asciilifeform: there is afaik no equiv of slime/macroexpand/etc system for php
asciilifeform: so only way to learn wtf proggy does, is to allow it to run
mp_en_viaje: it's a script processor, wtf other way is there ? not like it compiles anything
asciilifeform: right, processor, but w/ no provision (afaik) for asking it to process individual expression in realtime
asciilifeform: it's rather like debugging gnumake.
asciilifeform started by taking the included 'ada mode' and modifying. but thing seems to choke on the single-character keywords of peh
mp_en_viaje: that's weird.
asciilifeform prolly doomed to write a 'peh2html' batch proggy, and fughet about wpism
mp_en_viaje: you have this very ineffectual approach to things where you'll try either a very high level thing from first principles (usually, as applied to some extand software) or else a handwritten-on-knee minimalist thing. there's space in between these two, you know.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it was apparently designed by a tard. who insisted that 'single-char nonalphabetics' are 'symbols' and treated specially. and hardbaked a dependence on delimeters (i.e. whitespace) in the semantics. and fuckknows whatelse.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm cutting the wp thing open to see if it can be made to behave, but at some pt will have to throw in towel and do sumthing else
mp_en_viaje: ok, so don't use that. just because random plugin was written by tard doesn't invalidate either php as a ... text processor, nor wp plugins as an extension framerowkr for mp-wp
mp_en_viaje: and yes, obviously php ain't no ada.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's reminiscent of experience of writing tasm macros lol
asciilifeform: ( remember tasm ? )
mp_en_viaje: im not even sure
mp_en_viaje: which was this ?
asciilifeform: 'turbo assembler'
asciilifeform: for ye olde msdos
mp_en_viaje: o brother.
asciilifeform: hey that was last time asciilifeform found himself writing proggies in 'you want debug? haha, very funny' pattern substitutron
mp_en_viaje: no but listen : php chiefly exists for the task of "you know what? take every sentence in this text file and put <tag> around punctuation marks". that's what it was made for, substitute strings in strings, pretty much.
mp_en_viaje: it's no ~language~ in any sense.
asciilifeform: right, hence the comparison
mp_en_viaje: obviously maniacs abound, the "'single-char nonalphabetics' are 'symbols' and treated specially. and hardbaked a dependence on delimeters (i.e. whitespace) in the semantics. and fuckknows whatelse." parts sound SO FUCKING FAMILIAR
mp_en_viaje: lotta c written like that, too. and everything else.
asciilifeform: hence wai i even mentioned. it's a typical php proggy, and i strongly suspect that folx who spend enuff time writing in blind macroexpander langs, eventually become incapable of producing any other kind
asciilifeform: i.e. it's black lung equiv for the brain.
mp_en_viaje: it seems to me one ~should not~ write another kind in php.
mp_en_viaje: just like javascript isn't there for "here's an implementation of linux kernel in js", just so php is not there for "here's my recursive elegance" or w/e.
asciilifeform: it is ~physicallyimpossible to write any other kind in php.
asciilifeform: just like cannot write a tower of tasm macros that fails gracefully.
mp_en_viaje: but it seems to me your problem is eminently a php task ? "colorize" neh ?
asciilifeform: nao! there ~were~ text processors designed by thinking people, where it ~was~ possible to write a readable proggy with predictable failure conditions. e.g. 'snobol'. but these, buried under 30yrs of sediment, will take serious archaeology to unearth.
asciilifeform: and i gotta get motherfucking ch18c out . so not holding breath for these.
asciilifeform: will have to write new wpism or its equiv.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: rite ? simple problem , on surface, 'take this grammar and throw colour tags where they belong.' but apparently even this can be fucked up, idjit tower of speshulcases doesn't detect breakage of grammar, instead pisses out unclosed html tags.
mp_en_viaje: sounds like terrible implementation, it shouldn't ever throw unclosed tags in an ycase.
mp_en_viaje: what, is it 1pass ?
asciilifeform: appears to be
asciilifeform: ( not that this is a problem , for mathematical pov, for peh, which is also single pass )
mp_en_viaje: so then wtf.
asciilifeform: ( it aint simply for 18c either, i have entire sequence of peh likbez planned , so hand-colouring is prohibitively ugh )
asciilifeform: will have to bite bullet and write transformer from empty .
mp_en_viaje: you could just fix that thing, from description it's also broken for ada ?
mp_en_viaje: where is it any7way ?
asciilifeform: appears to work for ada, and coupla dozen other langs, w/out issue
asciilifeform: used it for many many yrs on my www , but never before attempted custom lang config .
asciilifeform installed some time in 2011, used for c, ada, verilog, bash, etc , these -- worked
mp_en_viaje: spyked, http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05a-july-theses.html#selection-893.205-893.499 << aren't these contrary claims ? ie, if they're not north koreans, therefore not r-selected ?
mp_en_viaje: the ultimate problem with debugging -- allows people to exam-take their code design, "oh, doesn't work on anything we've not spent year+ debnugging"
asciilifeform: the exam takers produce exactly same result with 'run an' print' 'debug' .
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, ok, this makes zero fucking sense. item is supposed to use ~css containers~ ; it's not possible to have open html tags therefore at all.
asciilifeform: that was what i thought !
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, here's a basic thing, not to infuriate you but out of curiosity : https://archive.is/3FJqA#selection-2733.0-2861.26 << have you tried the other container ?
mp_en_viaje: does it fix the whitespace strange ?
asciilifeform: and w/out reading the entire pila shit , impossible to say why.
asciilifeform: could spend 1000 yrs turning knobs bruteforcibly, if had 1000 yrs..
mp_en_viaje: well, using software w/o reading docs is iffy. but anyway.
mp_en_viaje: "The <pre> header is the default. If you’re familiar with HTML you’ll know that whitespace is rendered “as is” by a <pre> element. The advantage for you is that if you use <pre> the whitespace you use will appear pretty much exactly how it is in the source, and what’s more GeSHi won’t have to add a whole lot of <br />’s and non-breaking spaces (&nbsp;) to your code to indent it. This saves you source code (and your valuable visitors w
mp_en_viaje: aiting time and your bandwidth).
mp_en_viaje: But if you don’t like <pre> or it looks stupid in your browser no matter what styles you try to apply to it or something similar, you might want to use a <div> instead. A <div> will result in more source - GeSHi will have to insert whitespace markup - but in return you can wrap long lines of code that would otherwise have your browser’s horizontal scrollbar appear. Of course with <div> you can not wrap lines if you please. The highlighter demo
mp_en_viaje: at the GeSHi home page uses the <div> approach for this reason."
asciilifeform: i spend most of week with that doc, lol
mp_en_viaje: seems quite evident what they did -- div mode for sanity and pre mode for "whitespace is magic character nao".
asciilifeform: but evidently wk aint enuff
asciilifeform: 'geshi' actually weighs moar than trb.
asciilifeform: lol-wise.
asciilifeform: ( and that's w/out the configs... )
mp_en_viaje: looks like it.
asciilifeform: *loc-wise
mp_en_viaje: anyway -- in fairness the "space is magic char" thing very much comes from html spec itself.
asciilifeform: and if only only space . also brackets, ampersand, et
mp_en_viaje: maybe not the written "one" (as fucking if), but defo the factual one as emerged in practice.
asciilifeform: somewhere i had paper spec (nominally!) for just css. it weighed moar than ada spec .
asciilifeform: and iirc i threw it out, to free up shelf .
asciilifeform: unfathomable crock of shit, the lot of it
asciilifeform: the spec for opteron is still on the shelf, it is smaller
asciilifeform can only swim in liquishit for so many hrs in one go, off to come up for air. bbl
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