diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911324 -> yes, it's a brick of a book but in fact not really dense or anything; everytime I haul it out of the shelf and onto the table I inevitably wonder why exactly is it so heavy really.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 01:01 asciilifeform: ( 2012 barnes -- ~phonebook backbreaker )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-05#1911289 << more to it if you're eaten... nature doesn't belive in multiple designs, an esophagus is just as warm, soft an' juicy as a vagina.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-05 23:32 asciilifeform: i suspect that errybody with even surface familiarity with subj of hanging, knows this
mp_en_viaje: so i suppose the right thing to do, if ever swallowed by some mastoton or w/e, is drop one's pants and fuck the damned thing's gullet.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911317 << it's altogether dubious it'll ever make you any money ; but if the goal is to smoke without having to deal with other people then prolly worth it.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 00:39 danielpbarron: medical recently passed here, and licenses go for 2.5k WFF
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in marriage superstitions, https://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/alienvisitor/8087505/767768748/lady-beetles-720x717.jpg
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910647 <-- sorry, saw this way late in that evening. schedule was way packed with walking, birdsong listening and others that wait to be documented on teh blogs
a111: Logged on 2019-05-02 11:51 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910599 << ima leave for belgrade tomorrow morning ; we can set something up for today but gotta move limberly.
spyked: meanwhile, /me is back to his regular schedule and will spend the week processing photos, writing and planning
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910659 <-- come to think of it, there's no reason to limit pastebin to images. could do text files as well and extend to other formats as needed
a111: Logged on 2019-05-02 12:04 mircea_popescu: someone was even going to implement it, which is the last i heard of it.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910755 <-- I dun much like hunchentoot, on account of http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05c-development-log-i.html#selection-187.0-192.0 ; but I'm open to using it if the alternatives turn out to be insufficient
a111: Logged on 2019-05-02 14:35 lobbes: though it seems like lots of people here use hunchentoot for that purpose, and it seems that hunchentoot is easily modified to interface with apache through mod_lisp
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910954 <-- same here. would defo sign cl-who genesis, and will genesis it myself if needed
a111: Logged on 2019-05-02 18:39 asciilifeform: lobbes_field: i've previously used 'cl-who', but it needs to get eaten/genesised/frozen
mp_en_viaje shall bbl!
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910762 <-- so far wwwism kit seems to include: a. http server, b. [curl][http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-125.0-132.0], c. html gen. (a) is the next item on my list, with (c) and (b) coming next, and... is there a (d)?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-02 15:23 asciilifeform: none of these currently on front burner, but will be 9000x easier to revive if meanwhile lobbes et al produce an edible cl 'wwwism kit'
spyked bbl himself, back to rowing in the slave galley
phf: spyked: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05c-development-log-i.html#selection-147.0-153.252 << i've used araneida for early btcbase, i've dropped it in transition from cmucl, but i'd say that it's the least encumbered of the bunch. i don't remember it having any "administration interfaces". it's written in the late 90s hacky style, and it's missing functionality (for example i wrote entire form parsing logic when i was trying to add patch
phf: it doesn't have any kind of "architecture", so more than once i've had to hack somewhere deep inside request parsing code in order to support something or other
phf: spyked: wookie is not a hunchentoot fork, it's its own thing built around an async ffi. one thing you might want to add to your list is how much ffi-ing is required, or rather how "c heavy" the code is. for example teepeedee2 is extremely fast, but doesn't work anywhere but sbcl and linux, because it uses all kinds of libc features.
spyked: phf: I might have misread http://archive.is/iUlSp#selection-2259.0-2270.0 ; anyway, I've only used cl-http-server seriously so far and would highly appreciate input from phf and ben_vulpes on cl wwwtronics
spyked: re ffi, in that older research I've tried to avoid fast-running code in favour of fits-in-head, but I'll make sure to double-check in this iteration. the only www-related cffi dependency I recall was in cl+ssl, which I will remove on sight before genesis
phf: well, wookie depends on cffi through cl-async which depends on cffi and cl-libuv, where libuv is a C async library. teepeedee2 also depends on cffi and is full of code like https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vii/teepeedee2/master/src/io/epoll.lisp
jurov: I disrecommend. Messed with cl-async (via vim interface) and it's hell to debug. It also takes over debug and trace outputs and redirects then nooneknowswhere.
jurov: Ended up coding own neovim interface from scratch.
jurov: Lest I forget: cl-async does not support slime
jurov: so it would suck in emacs either
mp_en_viaje: spyked, you got the format backwards, linked "curl" with an anchor of http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-125.0-132.0
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911362 << why the fuck would they do this.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 12:21 phf: well, wookie depends on cffi through cl-async which depends on cffi and cl-libuv, where libuv is a C async library. teepeedee2 also depends on cffi and is full of code like https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vii/teepeedee2/master/src/io/epoll.lisp
mp_en_viaje: seriously now.
mp_en_viaje: evetything depends on happymeal. why do things this way!
mp_en_viaje: hurr durr loli veira. why is "ffi" even a thing in the first place.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'foreign function interface', i.e. mechanism for calling unixisms (socket, fileism, mmapism, etc)
asciilifeform: ( in particularly egregious cases -- is used to call not merely kernelisms, but entire chunks of c-built binariolade, e.g. db systems etc )
lobbes: !Xbid 1047 110mn
auctionbot: Buy order # 1047: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 110mn from lobbes outbidding PeterL. Ending: 2019-05-07 04:56:28.887251 UTC (26 hours 23 mins)
asciilifeform: for bonus ugly, it aint in the cl standard.
asciilifeform: phf described this in detail, in prev. threads.
asciilifeform: ( why not standardized, was touched on here and possibly elsewhere )
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 19:44 asciilifeform: so can haz a hypothetical contrary ? i.e. how would it have looked to have 'standard interface' to a thing which itself has no intention of obeying any standards ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911332 << heavy cuz glossy paper, i suspect.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 06:55 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911324 -> yes, it's a brick of a book but in fact not really dense or anything; everytime I haul it out of the shelf and onto the table I inevitably wonder why exactly is it so heavy really.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911347 << last time i surveyed the available items (~decade ago) 'hunchentoot' turned out to be the only 1 that wasn't fatally defective in some obvious way (some of the alternatives wouldn't build at all, others -- wouldn't use iron threads on x86; yet others missing some large piece , e.g. custom eggog pgs , etc ) but it's been a while
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 09:23 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910755 <-- I dun much like hunchentoot, on account of http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05c-development-log-i.html#selection-187.0-192.0 ; but I'm open to using it if the alternatives turn out to be insufficient
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, ok, but why.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911356 << i seem to recall that this was when the log www regularly fell down...
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 09:44 phf: spyked: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/05c-development-log-i.html#selection-147.0-153.252 << i've used araneida for early btcbase, i've dropped it in transition from cmucl, but i'd say that it's the least encumbered of the bunch. i don't remember it having any "administration interfaces". it's written in the late 90s hacky style, and it's missing functionality (for example i wrote entire form parsing logic when i was trying to add patch
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: why which ? why open sockets by talking to linux ? i agree, the Right Thing would be a cltron that drives nic directly etc.
asciilifeform: nobody's got 1 yet tho.
mp_en_viaje: even in the situation where a) you have to talk to linux and b) you can't talk to linux, WHY would you make something that eminently IS NOT a ffi, then call the thing that isn't a ffi "ffi" and then purport to use it ?
mp_en_viaje: kids who want a slavegirl but can't afford a slavegirl will sometimes buy a painted pillow and call it susan. but more commonly, and especially if not FUCKING FUCKED IN THE HEAD, they'll just watch older sis shower or something more directly separate.
asciilifeform: which particular piece of braindamage is this in re: ? ( e.g. sbcl, does have a -- ugly, but working -- ffi knob, hence how it does in fact let you open socket etc )
mp_en_viaje: here, cffi, and why al sorta things that needn't are nevertheless brought to depend on it.
mp_en_viaje: here's our axe. it depends on happymeal. here's enemy tomahawk. it depends on our happy meal. and here's [our version of] antique roman amphora. it... depends on happy meal.
mp_en_viaje: why the fuck would all the objects in a purported whole wide world depend on the same bit of circumstantial minutia.
asciilifeform: those, are cuz 0 standardized abi on linux . so instead various horrors where gcc is invoked, a small c proggy is shat out in realtime, built, then jumped into.
mp_en_viaje: you KNOW cffi ain't the holy grail of ffi. what is it then, such that it is found in general's boot and wench's bellybutton ornament and airplane tip
asciilifeform: it's a primo demo of how linux idjicy is contagious.
asciilifeform: ( and not really isolatable )
mp_en_viaje: more practically, what the fuck do we do.
asciilifeform: first gotta fully describe the atrocity, so as it is not repeated in future. mp_en_viaje recall that shoemaker-era defunkt public toilet in timis 3 blocks from 'kaufland' ?
asciilifeform: recall how it had rubbish 2 feet deep ?
mp_en_viaje: not particularly, but i'm sure
asciilifeform: consider how this comes about. toilet clogged, dunno, some time in 1990 perhaps. so folx pissed on floor.
asciilifeform: floor thoroughly enpissed. so wai not also throw cig butt on it.
asciilifeform: nao has 6 inch of cig butts. wai not, then , throw bottles.
asciilifeform: nao a foot of bottle 'cultural layer'. d00d walks in, and hey wainot take a shit on it.
mp_en_viaje: from the contrary perspective : i get it that you folk wanna write lisp. the principal problem seems to be that this can't currently be actually done
mp_en_viaje: a different flavour of bootstrap problem : extant lisp can't bootstrap itself a runtime on extant cpus.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this isn't even false. the illusion, however, is that 'c links natively, write c proggy' is some kinda improvement.
mp_en_viaje: im not proposing that.
mp_en_viaje: but i am also not happy about ending up with who knows what loli baked into "traditional tmsr process"
asciilifeform: recall naggum's summary, in reply to similar thrd : went sumthing like 'it is correct that unix does not support commonlisp. but it in fact does not properly support ~anything~.'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: while we sit on unix, we will inevitably 'bake whoknowswhat loli'
mp_en_viaje: if this is the choice i'd rather bake loli anony than loli veira.
phf: i don't think cffi is much about support of anything, it's almost always "there's a gnarly C library that i don't want to write in lisp, going to make a thin wrapper around, now has support for X
mp_en_viaje: phf, quite. and, in this statement, it's precisely that sorta loli productivity i object to.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform came to conclusion 'build new irons' decade ago not because masochist, but because direly overdue sole solution to whole slew of otherwise-intractable problem.
mp_en_viaje: "now has support for x" like luis has hacker cred.
auctionbot: Buy order # 1047: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 106mn from PeterL outbidding lobbes. Ending: 2019-05-07 04:56:28.887251 UTC (25 hours 54 mins)
asciilifeform: phf: it's straight gabrielladdelism.
phf: that's why my original "add how much ffi to your list", so that any ffi can be immediately dismissed
mp_en_viaje: i run into these schmucktards with the "ourdemocracy" beards all the damned time. "oh, i've been to spain". no, motherfucker, you haven't been to spain.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-05 19:23 mp_en_viaje: anyways, even with civillians... me spent a few hours in the tiniest spa known to mankind. rando couple, "soo.. .are you a triplet ?" "actually, they're my slaves" "wut?!?!?" "do you know what bdsm is ?" dude : nope ; chick yup.
mp_en_viaje: phf, thinking about it, it would seem the apache approach is the only sane one.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the folx who 'i went to 7 countries! i.e. ate 'bigmac' in 7 diff. mcdonaldsen' ? that's exactly it.
mp_en_viaje: have lisp run as a scripting language (which is to say, inferior, kiddy fare) inside adult programs.
mp_en_viaje: rather than try and pretend lisp is a workable systems language on x86 and then "ffi"ing all over the place.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, really insufferable, this "ease of everything" they've "built" in the way you describe above re broken toilet. it works well for an everything that takes values from the set shit, piss, cigg butt, beer bottle, ad flyer, fcmg wrapper.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's been tried, 'cl as script lang', bog slow cuz bringing it up ( cl on x86 is moar or less halfbaked lispm emulator ) takes time.
mp_en_viaje: i think apache mod cl thing brings it up once per instance (of apache)
mp_en_viaje: i dunno, i've not sawed it thoroughly appart. but seems vaguely flavoured in right thing vein
phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people
mp_en_viaje: i believe.
asciilifeform: 'hunchentoot' etc. are almost always run 'behind' apache as it is ( so static files serve up faster )
mp_en_viaje: this honestly may be the third workable design : have an "abstract" lisp server for http, have an apache in front of it.
phf: tbnl from which hunchentoot comes used to be pure mod_lisp, another code to look at
mp_en_viaje: ie, the interface will have to exist. now -- it'll either be a) "magic" in the sense of cl-http, whatever, graybeard asked thor and thor did him a personal fabvour ; or else b) "magic", in the sense of loli veira asked her daddy, and her daddy told her she's pretty, so clearly. african magic.
asciilifeform: yer still stuck with ffiism tho, i.e. can't even open socket to receive input from apache w/out it.
mp_en_viaje: but there's also the c) of "use the fucking filesystem as an interface", X dumps to file and Y reads from file
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: bog-slow.
mp_en_viaje: i'm not giving implementation details, i'm tryna draw the architectural lines.
asciilifeform: it is very easy to describe a working scheme, and afaik pretty much all of these variants are in use somewhere. but all have same set of problem.
mp_en_viaje: i thought phf 's idea was to map the set vs the usecase set.
asciilifeform: rright, asciilifeform however must point out why the map will inevitably read like the description of the 'cultural layer' in the timis toilet.
mp_en_viaje: i do not think this is necessarily so, specifically because of the narrowness of http usecase.
mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast
mp_en_viaje: meaning, updates may be slow to propagate, but consider -- new trilema article takes 15 mins to make it to rss, and as far as any rss reader is concerned, it
mp_en_viaje: s infinitely fast.
mp_en_viaje: if that's the cut, you may get away with no need to anything besides the fs.
asciilifeform: i'm not aware of any previous cl httptron that made this particular cut, so it's defo worth attempting imho.
mp_en_viaje attempted to read the year-old convo you linked here, seems to me it's substantially unrelated. i was protesting poor organisation on historical lisp team, the "oh but c sucks" point never was either disputed or much engaged.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: yea it is wrong link. but so far not found the needed one.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911437 << at 1 time i dug into phf's leads in prev thread re subj and tried to determine a 'time of death', i.e. approx moment when -- apparently -- the 'old guard' (folx who maybe quasi-remembered, secondhand, lispm) retired/decamped/descended into bottle, and poetterings took over. but then realized it is not esp. useful q to ask.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:00 phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people
asciilifeform: given any particular cl relic, it is usually not difficult to say which half of the divide it fell into
asciilifeform: if had to give approx. date, tho, would say ~2011 .
mp_en_viaje: erryone moved into bitcoin heh
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: evidently enuff wreckers were left over for older, smaller things, even tho bitcoin.
asciilifeform in 2010-12 'surely usg will muster king's horses and king's men' days , did not expect it to look like gavin, expected moar microshit-style 'embrace&extend', e.g. 'ibm bitcoin client' or sumsuch
asciilifeform: y'know, sorta how was done for linux etc
mp_en_viaje: kissinger is probably rolling in grave worth at least 2-3 kW over the whole guaio comedy.
asciilifeform: btw, for [thread][http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911403]-completeness strictly, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/cultural_layer_1.jpg , http://www.loper-os.org/pub/cultural_layer_2.jpg .
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 14:47 asciilifeform: first gotta fully describe the atrocity, so as it is not repeated in future. mp_en_viaje recall that shoemaker-era defunkt public toilet in timis 3 blocks from 'kaufland' ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i'm not even sure i ever saw that particular one. not that there's any shortage.
mp_en_viaje: for lulz completness : https://www.hotnews.ro/stiri-cultura-21294613-timisoara-desemnata-capitala-culturala-europeana-2021.htm
asciilifeform: i saw at least 2 other roughly similar.
asciilifeform: and afaik the object is pretty typical in post-sovok space. ( and iirc the celts also returned to shitting where they stood when rome left britain . cuz wainot, right. )
asciilifeform: 'anti-communism' types for some reason have this 'biological' antipathy for concept of working public toilet. 'if you want to shit, buy a bigmac and mcd will letya take shit'
asciilifeform: in usa there are ~0 public toilets in the euro sense.
mp_en_viaje: mcd wil llet you shit for free, for that matter.
asciilifeform: dunno re when mp_en_viaje was still there, but incidentally the spiffy underground toilets in the museum square were chained shut, when i saw'em in '17
asciilifeform: all of'em.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: today yes for free. result is that they nearly always resemble the timis item (albeit with ~working throne)
mp_en_viaje: it occurs to me i had no impulse to seek a public toilet, i can't recall since when.
asciilifeform: cuz not designed to house 200 hobos / hour
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje believes in french method, eh
mp_en_viaje: certainly not since crossing the pond. previously, went to pee in sabana (relatively large cr park) and discovered in the process the toilets there primo A++ gay cruising material, reminiscent of glory days of new york gay life
mp_en_viaje: half dressed dood totally would've sucked it if i said something
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, well, rather's the situation, i move from restaurant to cafe and from cafe to club and from club to hotel and from etcetera. i suppose if i were desperate i could order a girl drink me, but so far's not been any need for that.
asciilifeform: if they drink tho, will have to empty'em eventually eh.
mp_en_viaje: currently sitting with very nice tawny port, coffee etc in elaborate cafe an' "this place would be so nice if it didn't have a piano" were the last words out of my mouth.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know that experiment with the ducks ?
asciilifeform: hm which
mp_en_viaje: guy established a duck most voracious animal in nature, can eat thirty ducks, through the following pocedure :
mp_en_viaje: started with 30 ducks, cut one up, fed it to remainder 29, ... fed penultimate duck to last duck.
asciilifeform: notbad, lol, pkzip
asciilifeform: iirc there's an english folk song about ~this.
asciilifeform: 'then we will die and feed the worms, feed the worms, ducks, they will come and eat'em up, eat'em up, others will come and eat up ducks, eat the ducks...' etc i fughet how the rest.
asciilifeform: i suppose this is a possible 'harem sport' -- chix take turns drinking one another's 'morarji cola' , last 1 to give up, winner
asciilifeform: prolly already televised competition in jp or sumsuch
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911469 << iirc d00d is still alive somewhere
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 16:10 mp_en_viaje: kissinger is probably rolling in grave worth at least 2-3 kW over the whole guaio comedy.
asciilifeform: perhaps is the seekrit behind the lulz, even. 100 y.o. d00d is running the show.
BingoBoingo: No matter his location, the rolling must be harnessed
BingoBoingo: 2-3 Kw power source with more longevity than an rtg
BingoBoingo: In continued labor flaffing, drivers for Uruguay's petrol company about to stop driving petrol to Petrobras service stations, wreckers at PIT-CNT sure if they thrash enough "puestos de trabajo" can be saved and "Why do they want to leave anyways?" https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/fancap-cortara-suministro-de-combustibles-a-petrobras-20195611243
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's the prime mover there? e.g. did 'exxon' promise'em miami if they sabotage brazil ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Some derps at the Petrobras "Montevideo Gas" natgas distribution plant were fucking around with a rifle inside the plant. At the same time Bolsonaro in Brazil wants to shrink Petrobras and privatize it. Petrobras annouces it wants to sell its 88 service stations and exit the Uruguayo market. Throughout all of this "labor" is thrashing about in disbelief.
mp_en_viaje: rather, the inept cocksuckers "arrested" elite because "corruption", fell nobody-could-have-predictedly in http://trilema.com/2011/povestea-celor-trei-imparati-smecheri-si-a-celor-trei-negustori-fraieri-fabula-in-versuri-ilustrata/#selection-69.206-69.436 failure mode.
mp_en_viaje: brazil can't has leadership for lulz or money, fin.
asciilifeform: hrm didn't it elect a 'great again' lol, or wat was it, last yr
mp_en_viaje: "but mp, you must run for office" "why, so you worthless cocksuckers can whine about how come '''your''' gf'd much rather suck me off ? get lost."
BingoBoingo: Great again ain't no Emperor Pedro
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, well, electing a goat to drive bus ain't gonna get any busses driven.
BingoBoingo: "Además, señaló que va a negociar con el gobierno uruguayo la devolución de la concesión de la distribución de gas. “La escala que tenemos en Uruguay no nos interesa”, expresó al medio brasileño Estadao de San Pablo. La noticia tomó por sorpresa al Poder Ejecutivo y generó que el sindicato le pida al gobierno una actitud más proactiva."
mp_en_viaje: wtf is a more proactive attitude.
mp_en_viaje: shit, why not just "more dynamic and oriented with the requirements of the times"
asciilifeform: in quasirelated lulz, asciilifeform went for 1st time into brazil's embassy in ameristan, the other day (it was on exhibit) . 100% snoar except for the wall deco, whole place was done up with vintage paintings of slaves being unloaded from boats, whipped, auctioned, etc
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: They imagine the president is a servant of the labor syndicate.
BingoBoingo: They keep saying they don't want to go down the Venezuela road while dragging everyone down the Venezuela road
mp_en_viaje: generally how poor people activity works. look at what they claim not to be doing, it's what they're doing.
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, current-day brazil is a petromiamistan, rather like current ru (picture if ru were moved to equator, for extra tropical-stupidity radiation damage ..)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-08 15:02 asciilifeform: the 'good climate makes folx lazy and slowly climbing 'back up to trees' ' item is an old saw, but i'm not aware of any major hole in the theory
BingoBoingo: But its alright because everyone has "estufas de leña" and they'll chase away UPM before they can break ground on the mill in order to have the Eucalyptus planted in the 90's to keep them warm in the winter.
mp_en_viaje: well, in the 80s/90s they promised to be industrial power. (eg, lua is leftover artifact from this time)
asciilifeform: what winter.
mp_en_viaje: then, china took ove rharder than expected, and well... lido got sanded.
BingoBoingo: Rained and smog'd all weekend here because its 60F, gotta fire up the estufas de leña
mp_en_viaje: no idea anyone has any use for brazil except to fuck the slavegirl granddaughters with the pork asses.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, the days get short and the latinos have the narrowest of temperature tolerances
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol! i was aboutta say, 'that's where asciilifeform switches off ac, not turns on heat'
mp_en_viaje has had heat going even with outside temps at 18
asciilifeform: well nudism, eh
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re brazil, seems to me that petroexport and industry are a 'pick 1'. qatar case in point.
asciilifeform: if money 'grows on tree', wai have industry.
BingoBoingo: Kinda why the generals exiled emperor Pedro after they got their medals burning Paraguay
asciilifeform: brief industrial spell in history of ru, guess when -- when stalin, and forbade petroexport categorically.
asciilifeform: then died, and poof.
mp_en_viaje: well, have industry so as to extract it. your theory is experimentally weak, romania had lots of oil, had no industry under blue "ourdemcoracy" 1900 version, then had industry under red socialist democracy 1950s version, now they're fucking it up to get back to blue version, etc.
asciilifeform: possibly the 1 thing moar decerebrating than shit poverty, is lottery money.
mp_en_viaje: it all revolves around whether there's ivan groznyi or not
asciilifeform: rright but when 'ivan' he does Right Thing and orders 'the motherland's earth treasures are for building up motherland's factories an' roads' etc
BingoBoingo: Emperor goes old gender, spent decades not grooming any successors, Brazil missed its chance to be lamented like 1904 Argentina because they got their decline underway during the 1870s
asciilifeform: when no ivan, it gets sold to anglos for candy wrappers redeemable in zurich for miami ticket.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: see also https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-golden-ticket/ .
mp_en_viaje: i confess i don't get it.
asciilifeform: there was old film, which i think mp_en_viaje's link is a frame from 'modern' remake of, where some kid unwraps a chocolate bar and 'ticket to tour the magic factory' where bathe in chocolate and etc
mp_en_viaje: but i mean, what's the punch of the pbcomics thing
asciilifeform: possib. the eng expression 'see how sausage is made'.
asciilifeform: !!up lobbes_field
deedbot: lobbes_field voiced for 30 minutes.
lobbes_field: ty asciilifeform
lobbes_field: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911352 << still digesting this morning's logs, but it seems that re: (c) - html gen, everyone is in general agreement that cl-who would be a good place to start
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 09:32 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910762 <-- so far wwwism kit seems to include: a. http server, b. [curl][http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-125.0-132.0], c. html gen. (a) is the next item on my list, with (c) and (b) coming next, and... is there a (d)?
lobbes_field: Since (c) is in spyked's hopper already, I'll let him take this item (and I will read/sign it once genesised)
lobbes_field: Now, it seems we could go many directions re: (a), but I'm partial to the lisp-to-apache route
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:06 mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast
lobbes_field: As such, I'll start poking around at mod_lisp, et al. Will report back
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:01 phf: tbnl from which hunchentoot comes used to be pure mod_lisp, another code to look at
lobbes_field back to mines, bbl
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: While you plan your next run down here make sure to re-review Copa's baggage policies. They seem to be shifting as these things do. http://archive.is/mU9FX
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/after-coup-embarrassment-usg-goes-on-tilt-aggressing-on-all-rivals-at-the-same-time/ << Qntra -- After Coup Embarrassment USG Goes On Tilt Aggressing On All Rivals At The Same Time
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: loox same as before, 'Overweight and oversize baggage for international flights' 33-45kg 200 usd ea.
BingoBoingo: Never hurts to double check
asciilifeform: interestingly, 'business class' nao includes 'phree' 64kg + 175 for another 23
asciilifeform: depending on what costs, might win
asciilifeform: ( 175 usd, that is, for + 23kg )
BingoBoingo: North America/Uruguay gets its own line on the table
asciilifeform: and same as before, no 1 crate may weigh > 45kg.
BingoBoingo: When I came down here business class was at least twice as expensive as economy.
asciilifeform: was like this when asciilifeform went also.
asciilifeform: prolly dun vary much.
BingoBoingo: I suspect the same
asciilifeform: loox like classic variant ('economy' + 2 x 45kg bags ) still teh winner.
BingoBoingo: Maybe possible to get a third in?
asciilifeform: i tried to find this out last time, and turned out that the co. is retarded, they could not even definitively promise that 2 x 45kg will get loaded.
asciilifeform: ( they did . but had to find ~empirically~ )
asciilifeform: extra upstack lulz, re 'cultural layer' : google helpfully informs that it has thickened !
asciilifeform: ( photo circa aug. '18 )
asciilifeform: ( also reveals that in '12 , it was ~clean. this suggests that it grows by ~foot / yr or so.. )
asciilifeform: also upstack, 'The US guided-missile destroyers ‘Preble’ and ‘Chung Hoon’ traveled within 12 nautical miles' << lol!!
asciilifeform: apparently not misprint.
asciilifeform: there in fact is a 'uss chung hoon'.
asciilifeform: 'named in honor of Rear Admiral Gordon Pai'ea Chung-Hoon (1910–1979)'.
BingoBoingo: There's no bottom to these lolz
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/new-microsoft-chromium-based-browser-to-include-legacy-ie-attack-surface/ << Qntra -- New Microsoft Chromium Based Browser To Include Legacy IE Attack Surface
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, "has begun intensifying" is derpy.
BingoBoingo: reworded "the criminal organization calling itself the United States Government has impotently gone on tilt by escalating zher ongoing aggression against zher rivals."
BingoBoingo finally acquired a "ropero" and assembling the thing so guests stop wondering why all my clothes are perpetually in the luggage.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile at cunt, inc... https://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/PewPewPew37/8087616/357771032/cheating-11-19.gif
BingoBoingo: Of all the things the maker could have pre-drilled holes for and neglected... they neglected pilot holes for the latches. It is not an extraordinary impediment to me putting the thing together, but how are the locals supposed to make the doors work?
mp_en_viaje lifted his eyes and saw... 5 out of 6 doors of his wardrobe open
mp_en_viaje: maybe locals don't close the doors.
BingoBoingo: Possible, but this artifact is roughly as culturally embedded as the estufa electrica is across the river.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/hamplanet-health-minister-in-belgium-still-morbidly-obese-nearly-five-years-in-responsibilities-keep-expanding/ << Qntra -- Hamplanet Health Minister In Belgium Still Morbidly Obese Nearly Five Years In, Resp...ties Keep Expanding