Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-11-29 | 2018-12-01 → ↓
asciilifeform: ваше слово, товарищ маузер! (tm)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right, "lalala i can't hear you" until the very last moment, when the curtain drops. because why the fuck not, hurr.
mircea_popescu: all this "self-confidence is the only education needed" nonsense reheheheally paid off.
asciilifeform: https://github.com/project-everest/hacl-star/blob/master/code/bignum/Hacl.Spec.Bignum.Fproduct.fst << holy fuq, the sort of liquishit that d00d's links offered as proofolade... picture trying to ~read~ this. ( and there's 9000 of'em )
deedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/30/smg-comms-chapter-10-actions-and-rsa-keys/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 10: Actions and RSA Keys
asciilifeform: ty diana_coman ! i will sew it into ch14.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876362 << i'll admit, i kept half-expecting him to actually read a ch of ffa and go 'hmm... maybe i should throw out my c hairball and mecha-proofisms' but of course no dice.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 09:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right, "lalala i can't hear you" until the very last moment, when the curtain drops. because why the fuck not, hurr.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 18:12 mircea_popescu: this place is for reading AND FOR CHANGING YOURSELF.
Mocky: is it just me or does that look like baltimore?
BingoBoingo: It's Libertad
asciilifeform: hey BingoBoingo what do you call in english those strings ?
asciilifeform: y'know, between the adjacent cell grates
asciilifeform: ( in ru world they're кони , 'horses' )
asciilifeform: one hooks up wads of paper with note , like spitball in kindergarten, to'em
BingoBoingo: I am unsure, I missed them in the photo until you mentioned them
asciilifeform: look specifically in http://archive.is/M4NEr -- the center 2 cells on bottom 2 rows are linked with horses
asciilifeform: d00d whose cot is by the grate has the duty of 'keeping the road', as they called it (again nfi in english world what it is called there, much less in spanish empire)
asciilifeform: road runs mainly at night, for obv reason.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Libertad is about a third of the way from Montevideo to Colonia
asciilifeform: the procedure for making the 'road' go is quite elaborate and much dwelled on in ru prison lit. ( gotta pull apart a sock, weave rope, make 'fishing rod' out of paper + bread glue etc , then run the 'horse' )
asciilifeform: ( in ru variant, moar laborious cuz their setup tends to look moar like https://www.tyurem.net/album/images/narva_55_jpg.jpg -- iron grate sorta like on modern 'central ac' duct, gotta be pried apart a little with sumthing )
asciilifeform: ( technically 'horse' is the spitball, 'road' is the rope, but again in eng world whoknows, maybe whole tradition died/never born )
asciilifeform: jailers pull'em down with hooks, so they get rebuilt regularly.
BingoBoingo: The Uruguayos don't tend to lockup people for very long. Year+ in prison seems to be an anomaly
asciilifeform: in current-day ru, as i understand you need repeated (1 corpse generally not suffice) wetwork to merit >decade
asciilifeform: while in usg reich, effectively life sentence for ~errything, at least if yer white , is ~standard
asciilifeform: ( there are 'lifers' in ru, typically 5+ corpses on ea., but they typically have life expectancy of ~7y . 1 survived to parole age last yr, it was enuff of an oddity that it was taken up in the fishwraps as newz )
mircea_popescu: trinque re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875902 : considering both items in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875860 are at 6+ confirms now, i'd say the point re the utter irelevancy and thorough ireality of usg and its figments is well made enough to not need me to throw away dimes to rando idiot spammers.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 22:47 trinque: mircea_popescu: lulzy, but my coffers aren't stocked up for a supreme court fight just yet
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 19:53 mircea_popescu: 0fb6460fcb88a0fbdc85d4f3b9505e69814ceacb3effd20b427d1b8d5689094e / 09c078a4040b1a044dc654e005bcc8b4c23523393d5244fd9c47408968555640 i see mempool txn right now.
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: though maybe BingoBoingo feels like updating the piece that started teh discussion with the corresponding mockery.
mircea_popescu: how goes alfie.
asciilifeform: another day in the lulzroom.
asciilifeform: tried, for instance, to actually read zx2c4's hairball, ran outa barfbags
mircea_popescu: lol if you insist on wasting time...
mircea_popescu: btw Mocky -- teh bot dies through the following : often it makes so much stuff in one click it overwhelms its weight carrying capacity. any chance you can implement a fragmenter-if-overweight ? it's often enough to be a pain in the ass by now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well, asciilifeform is not usually the 'Пастернака не читал, но осуждаю'(tm)(r) type. so yes tried to read.
asciilifeform: but (spoiler!) it aint actually readable.
asciilifeform: approx on par with e.g. koch.
mircea_popescu: dude's mental processes are of a certain ilk, whadda ya want.
asciilifeform: ( and , in fact ~to the credit of~ koch, at least the latter didn't fuck about with 'proofs' )
mircea_popescu: there's not this miracle in nature, "i know he doesn't wash, but he's a great guy!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still can't make heads or tails of wtf was in that d00d's head. shows symptoms of some kinda maths education. but omfg the 'cd-r brain'.
mircea_popescu: usual set of a) "you're special" cuntlet nonsense and b) "if its hard it means you don't have to do it" ustardation. they interplay the same way everywhere, it's a coherently broken philosophical system
asciilifeform: folx ~do~ on occasion get out of e.g. the bottle. but ~this~ appears to be incurable, medicine is powerless.
mircea_popescu: in fact, pretty much every single pantsuit mental cockroach can be deduced from a+b above, ~including~ the strictly contradictory bits, and also including the psychotic nonsednse that allows them to maintain contradictory beliefs.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure curable. his problem is -- medicine is NOT INTERESTED.
mircea_popescu: just like all bois could in fact be reproduced, if there were somewhere a girl with sufficient patience. there isn't.
asciilifeform: i gave ~hour to attempt to cure. in retrospect it was folly, made 0 dent.
mircea_popescu: you're kinda famous for your generosity in this vein, actually.
asciilifeform: it was quite similar, imho, to the gabriel laddel fella. clearly there was 'somebody home' in the crankcase, but under a thick haze of substances and detritus from indiscriminate suction of ??? from heathendom. 'salvation of the drowning is work for the selfsame drowning', what can i say.
mircea_popescu: very unlikely. gl dood was young.
asciilifeform: i pictured zx2c4 as also young, but i have nfi specifically
mircea_popescu: there's a certain level of permissible idiocy in the youth. they come out of eggs.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 02:58 zx2c4: haha, was just curious. i presume you're ancient
asciilifeform: it's at least the 5th time i got that q, nearly lost count
mircea_popescu: "how old are you cuz you derive" ?
asciilifeform: the notion that sumbody might turn away from 'modernity' consciously, rather than because alzheimer patient, apparently is a bridge too far for some folx
mircea_popescu: i suppose we're a priviledged set, had derive on ye olde 386, instead of "had stupid family, watched disney" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: right, cuz the part where "it fucking worked" is something "we've all moved past" rite.
asciilifeform: hey i even managed to see disneys. a coupla, with the trad ru dubbing translator with clothspin on his nose going mmmm
mircea_popescu: lol. actually, i recently saw aladdin, at hanbot 's insistence. previously i think jungle book was last.
mircea_popescu: they kinda went to shit in the 00s.
asciilifeform: iirc that was last one i saw ( and the only 1 in orig lang )
asciilifeform: after that they went to '3d'
asciilifeform: ( and ran out of folklore to pillage )
mircea_popescu: jungle book was honest, in this sense. pillaged their own anglo narratives.
asciilifeform: 'where they cut off yer lips! if they dun like yer smile! it's barbaric, but hey it's home!'
asciilifeform: (aladdin)
asciilifeform: ^ for some reason was censored from 'dvd' disc ver., iirc
mircea_popescu: but yes, alladin carries a pretty fucking strong scent of "oh, hi, we're ohioan squarejaws wearing bedsheets. totally legit rome sir. rome, ohio."
asciilifeform: rright but moar or less unperfumed with pretense
mircea_popescu: yeah, i kinda got the same "oh, we're cluless, aren't we cute tho".
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's a pity san fernando valley was all morons in the 90s. could have bought disney, turn it into slut educational tool.
mircea_popescu: nothing but naked 9yo princesses aspiring to porn valley.
asciilifeform: !!up SeanRiddle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's such a fucking perfect illustration.
asciilifeform: hm deedbot jammed or wat
mircea_popescu: for whatever, early xtianity comprehending "paganism", italian cinquecento "rescuing classical antiquity", what have you.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's the alleged ic rev d00d
asciilifeform: amberglint's fella
mircea_popescu: trinque hey! no deedbot ?!
mircea_popescu: o, really ?!
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 15:44 asciilifeform: amberglint: that's the basic litmus test. if comes, gets in wot, then ~possibly~ serious
mircea_popescu: hm. i wonder if we can do ye olde cartoon thing i couldn't get done before.
trinque: thanks mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: !!up SeanRiddle
deedbot: SeanRiddle voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: asciilifeform: didn't you say you had spotted a bug?
asciilifeform: trinque: i can't speak for deedbot, but the ircbot code i put pehbot on doesn't autoreconnect at all
mircea_popescu: i kept trying to get a comic going, oglaf chick wouldn't do it, that midnight_on_mars dood with the http://pictures.hentai-foundry.com/m/MidnightonMars/435591/MidnightonMars-435591-Secret_Obsession_-_Overwatch.jpg too fucktarded to communicate...
asciilifeform: ( dunno if 'bug' or simply no one yet made variant which knows how )
SeanRiddle: I can decap it and get pics, and if it's simple enough I can remove the top metal layer and get more pics, but someone will need to vectorize it to RE it
mircea_popescu: http://pbfcomics.com/comics/electro-sutra/ << terrible fucking shit, could greatly benefit from you know... SOME IDEAS.
trinque: deedbot's based upon that, usually reconnects, but it is looking like there's a case where it does not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://pbfcomics.com/comics/harlots-web/ << some are notbad
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle haha was this you all along ?
mircea_popescu: !!key SeanRiddle
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle you'll be able to self-voice once this expires. also, what do you use to peel layers ?
SeanRiddle: I'm using Whink to remove the passivation layer and top metal layer.
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: also what res photo can you take ?
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: i tried to look at the high res samples on your www, but found only http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875711
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 15:50 asciilifeform: http://www.seanriddle.com/sc1die.html << suggests that this is the case, the link to 'Here's a 17436x15128 pixel version (HD View on another server)' goes to some microshit site that doesn't actually load for me
mircea_popescu: hahaha rust remover ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun expect he has an ion accelerator, no
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle is it a case you have high resolution photos and lack hosting for them ?
SeanRiddle: http://seanriddledecap.blogspot.com has links to where I uploaded big pics to wikimedia
SeanRiddle: Yep, Whink's an easy way to get weak HFl
SeanRiddle: A lot of the pics on wikimedia are 40Kx40K pixels
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd have thought people just use royal water / hcl / something.
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle what's your medium planning look like ? you wanna do more comicwork ? you wanna expand on your decapping ? what do you do for a living anyway ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun think he's the comic d00d
asciilifeform: thread crosstalk
SeanRiddle: Just a programmer - no comic stuff. Decapping is just a weekend hobby.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform didn't you say amberglint's fellow is the decapper / comic dude ?
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle sorry lol, seems i got confused. sooo what do you program ?
SeanRiddle: Some embedded stuff for oilfield equipment, some apps for decision analysis
mircea_popescu: !!rate SeanRiddle 1 decap hobbist
SeanRiddle: So the die's upside down, huh?
mircea_popescu: what do you do if there's multiple layers anyway ?
SeanRiddle: I leave it for someone with better equipment. I don't have any lapping equipment.
asciilifeform: loox like top is au-plated iron thermal lid, bottom -- ceramic.
mircea_popescu: how many layers is it ? known even ?
asciilifeform: unknown
asciilifeform: nor known what exactly size of die, beyond the obv max visible in the photo
asciilifeform: ( suggests that it's 2cm^2 )
mircea_popescu: kinda fucking hard to peel off an unknown layer count.
asciilifeform: my notes say that it is either '2um cmos' by vlsi co., or '1um cmos' (hp co) if later edition (not known which one we have)
asciilifeform: iirc this means up to 9 layers.
asciilifeform: moar typically 5.
mircea_popescu: so the chip is what, 4mm or so tall ?
asciilifeform: the die ? i dun think even today there is die whole 4mm tall
asciilifeform: more like 1.
mircea_popescu: still, 100 or so um per layer, should be doable without necessarily ion gun
asciilifeform: it's approx same item as 386, chemically
mircea_popescu: i esp like the - , ! sendoff
mircea_popescu: стихи << does english even have "stih" ? certainly ro word, and afaik they have "diptych" and such later greek derivatives...
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix-1987-baker.pdf ( warning: pdfturd/scan ) has the only known die shot
mircea_popescu: apparently not.
asciilifeform: may be possible to infer exact metrage from it
asciilifeform: ^ is where i got also only known spec re microcode, '1200 word x 180bit rom'
asciilifeform: 390`000 transistor.
asciilifeform: item was 1 of the 1st ( if not ~the~ first ) machine-layout'd ic's, so it won't be as simple to re as the early 80s cpus
asciilifeform: ( prior to these, masks were drawn 'by hand', on room-sized film, with actual pieces of electrician's tape )
amberglint: Hello everyone
asciilifeform: oh hey the die size
asciilifeform: claims '12.6 x 12.3 mm'
asciilifeform: and yes photo matches the one given by baker, to the limit of naked eye.
asciilifeform: ty amberglint
amberglint: it's from Howard Shrobe's "Exploring Artificial Intelligence. Survey Talks from the National Conferences on Artificial Intelligence"
amberglint: I can share the whole pdf if you want
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle you say !!up to deedbot in a pm.
asciilifeform: iirc phf ( and apparently nobody else ) has the actual pinout, but iirc it is on a tape or the like and he hasn't posted yet
amberglint: it says "CMOS - 2 Level metal", does that mean two layers?
mircea_popescu: all those delicious %20s, the unerring sign of computer iliteracy.
mircea_popescu: amberglint can't fucking fit in 2 layers at 1.x sqcm
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: winblowz filenames ftw.
mircea_popescu: 2 level metal is trade name, a sort of metalization process
asciilifeform: simply means there's 2 metal layer ( conductors ) .
asciilifeform: along with buncha else.
asciilifeform: 'It is of tiie same complexity as an Intel 80386 or a Motorola 68030. Figure 21 is a photomicrograph of the chip (chip people always seem to need to show their chip pictures). The Ivory chip is more or less divided into three horizontal slices; the top is the datapath and stack cache, the middle is the control system, and the bottom is the memory interface. In the middle of the control system is a very large microstore, again compara
asciilifeform: ble to what you'd see in a 80386 or a 68020 class machine.'
asciilifeform: 'Figure 24 show some statistics about Ivory. The size of the chip was about a centimeter-and-a-half on a side in the earliest version which was done using 2-micron CMOS technology. The first commercial version will be done in a 1.6 micron process and will be about a centimeter on a side, as is the TI chip. This makes it a very large, (but not impossibly large), chip to fabricate. There are about 255,000 actual transistors on the die.
asciilifeform: However, the common way of measuring chip complexity is to count the number of transistor sites; this measures the size of the internal ROMs better. Using that count, this is one of the largest chip ever done, containing nearly 400,000 transistor sites. The chip was designed very quickly (it took about 9 months from the freezing of the architecture to the first prototype chip, using a team of only 4 designers).'
mircea_popescu: remember back when they had folks who went to school ? "elite" husband-and-wife team could bake a great z80 game over a summer, and so on.
amberglint: asciilifeform: I also have an article about NS somewhere, don't know if you have it yet
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall that these folx had automation that actually worked.
asciilifeform: amberglint: let's have it, for completeness, if you can dig up.
mircea_popescu: and wives that actually worked and banks that actually worked and suppliers and everything else that actually worked ; and very little of the soviet http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-25#1176177
a111: Logged on 2015-06-25 07:05 mircea_popescu: "Our Solutions Leadership About Us Careers News Contact" who the fuck thought this is how you do it ? it's almost like the soviet butcher, "we're the advertising shop, we don't have publishers. fish is what they don't have in the shop down the street"
mircea_popescu: and people envied them for it and even considered defecting to it, and so on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: indeed, tho quite ironically bolix itself was quite analogous to a su research town
amberglint: found it, "CAD Programming in an Object Oriented Programming Environment" by J. Cherry, going to upload it now
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 20:47 asciilifeform: to be fair the company was not really a honest commercial co, moar like one of those unofficial usg research institutes, they proliferated under reagan and died with him
mircea_popescu: amberglint how about you mp-wp yourself ?
amberglint: mircea_popescu: had it on my mind lately, probably going to do it at some point soon
mircea_popescu: it'd certainly saving on all this "here's rando domain i put stuff on"
asciilifeform: amberglint: there's an unsold rk ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295 ) machine at pizarro, waiting for somebody's sweet bl0g
asciilifeform: diana_coman presently uses, and BingoBoingo , and a few other folx, worx great
mircea_popescu: wasn't there also a shared setup ?
asciilifeform: there is !
asciilifeform: e.g. hanbot uses
asciilifeform: also worx
asciilifeform: for photo-heavy / warez etc www, i'd recommend the rk
mircea_popescu: i can see it.
amberglint: asciilifeform: I'll consider it, thank you for the offer
amberglint: page 265
asciilifeform: amberglint: they're pretty sweet 4core arm64 boxen; i assembled and engentoo'd with own hand
asciilifeform: ty amberglint
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876374 << item looks rather like 1980s era soviet collegiate campus.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 15:42 BingoBoingo: Local Prison architecture http://archive.is/pwNgt http://archive.is/M4NEr
amberglint: I wish I could locate the actual docs for NS
asciilifeform: amberglint: afaik nobody's found'em yet
mircea_popescu: amberglint best bet prolly hanging about when the dood what's his name croaks and buying the debris in his house.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dks ? made pretty convincing case that they aint at his house ( but whoknows )
asciilifeform: ( he condescended to give asciilifeform a keyboard pinout, and had to 'go to warehouse' to get )
mircea_popescu: eh, the red stapler guy, shit's always at his house. periodically they find a "traitor" fo this kind, had 9000 "secret" hard drives in basement.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it's on moldy papers.
asciilifeform: it is on moldy papers. and iirc phf even has been to where.
asciilifeform: ( moldy tapes also )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: house, was fulla iron, old moldy cards, hdds, consoles. dks was/is a repairman, afaik mechanical engineer orig by trade .
asciilifeform: had 0 to do with design.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure, nor does this change much really.
asciilifeform: could have the crown jewels, or not, nobodyknows.
amberglint: Tom Knight still has some schematics for AI Lab's modified PDP-10 and his graphical terminal
amberglint: he shared them with people who are working on PDP-10 emulation
asciilifeform: amberglint: pdp10 is approx as interesting as nintendo tho
amberglint: I know, just interesting that he keeps some old shit
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876396 <<< aaaahahahaah omfg holy shit this beats all.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 16:25 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/argentina-buys-us-soy/ << Qntra - Argentina Buys US Soy
mircea_popescu: so what do they DO!!!! anymore!
BingoBoingo: Argentina claims to be exporting their whole soy crop to china. I guess they are trying to live off of whatever percent difference minus transport.
BingoBoingo: But yes, somehow they can afford reactor + crew from russia
Mocky: "Still, a total of 6-7 transactions had been sent to the addresses by time of writing, some with intriguing transaction details. For instance, this transaction has an embedded message:
Mocky: The U.S. government cannot ban Bitcoin addresses" http://archive.is/jwoB9#selection-1777.0-1793.48
Mocky: "The other address has one notable transaction which is sent from 1JEWSxAgGhSFuNPHUAr13zftNLjYt5wZaS and 1MoSSaDDSStrRo53YjPaGcXiABAXfYuvEL. A dust transaction, it was confirmed in block 551895."
asciilifeform: Mocky: i dun see where 'embedded' tho
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876406 I won't get a chance to look at this until signed up with new daily bread overlord
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 17:27 mircea_popescu: btw Mocky -- teh bot dies through the following : often it makes so much stuff in one click it overwhelms its weight carrying capacity. any chance you can implement a fragmenter-if-overweight ? it's often enough to be a pain in the ass by now.
asciilifeform: yes, but ~where in the tx~ does the text live
Mocky: ah, dunno
asciilifeform: or is this 1 of those heathen 'blockchain info' 'append note to your tx' promisetronic thingies
amberglint: asciilifeform: I'll try to ask Howard Shrobe about the layers, maybe he still remembers if he deigns to answer
asciilifeform: amberglint: he's 1 of the folx i've tried writing to, in past yrs, perhaps you'll have better luck than i
asciilifeform: always worth a shot
asciilifeform: iirc he went into medicine after bolix folded
asciilifeform: ( somewhere on my hdd, there's a photo of shrobe walking across a stage holding up a 3620 , the kind in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=51 , in his hands, 'looksy, first 'portable' bolix' )
amberglint: from what I know, he's back at MIT
amberglint: CSAIL
asciilifeform: dun appear to be lispm-related, sadly
asciilifeform: ( not esp surprising tho )
asciilifeform: current mit is a kind of nursing home, as i gather
asciilifeform: elderly academics who can barely hold up cup of tea, and buncha quasi-literate young folx ( see infamous http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-01#400666 ) to wait on'em
a111: Logged on 2013-12-01 15:21 ozbot: MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a small space in a tx to add some text.
mircea_popescu: your own "blockchain telegraphy" and a buncha "child porn in blockchain" antiqua are there
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's several ways to 'add text' , aha , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490
asciilifeform: was curious which one was used
asciilifeform: ( it wasn't obv from the link )
asciilifeform: it's easier if you dun intend to recirculate the coinz.
asciilifeform: ( then can encode txt as dest addrs )
mircea_popescu: (by the way, since we're doing usg pretense & impotence : the bitcoin blockchain DOES factually contain child porn. exactly 0 anyone can do about this, which is why exactly 0 mention of this in pravda & co. much like exactly 0 mention on #metoo of all the "evil white men of patriarchy" that laughed @metootard all the way to the brothel.)
asciilifeform: hey didn't sumbody stuff in 'goldbug' virus from 1993 , and thereby trigger microshit's av
asciilifeform: i vaguely recall this gag
mircea_popescu: something like that, yeh.
asciilifeform: but sure can stuff in whatever bytes, iirc addr decoder barfing dun invalidate a tx , classically
asciilifeform: costs whatever the miner fee is, plus epsilon for payload ( most of the current chinese won't mine a 0-summing tx iirc )
asciilifeform has personally used this mechanism for remote control of... autonomous machinery
asciilifeform: in earlier days there were also folx stuffing strings into block hdrs, but dunno if this is still in fashion, and at any rate no longer doable if you aint chinese, to 1st approx
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876486 >> notbad, e.g. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Oki_m6283_metal.jpg , but still can't see individual transistors there, unless i'm missing sumthing
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 17:52 SeanRiddle: http://seanriddledecap.blogspot.com has links to where I uploaded big pics to wikimedia
asciilifeform: ( also seems to have dirt, which is problem, cuz 1 speck of shit can cover several 100 transistor at this density -- not even speaking of moar recent micronages )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 19:14 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876406 I won't get a chance to look at this until signed up with new daily bread overlord
asciilifeform: it's a good try, but i dunno that this is usable for re.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i guess, if there's any hero waiting in the wings to cut teeth on some code... it's not THAT intricate.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was this the http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mp.gif thing ?
asciilifeform: iirc i posted my solver, but for somereason cannot find in log, so will repost, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4TeLb/?raw=true
asciilifeform: wb SeanRiddle
SeanRiddle: That's the lo-res pic. Wikimedia sometimes chokes on my big pics, and I have to upload smaller ones. Go down to the File History and there's a link to a 43Kx45K pixel pic.
asciilifeform: ~600MB notbad
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: what sorta camera didja use ?
asciilifeform tries to find sumthing that'll display that thing without choking
SeanRiddle: It's a Canon EOS 5D
asciilifeform: i had that thing, but it certainly didn't take 43k x 43k photos. didja stitch'em ?
SeanRiddle: Yeah, that was something like 39x60 pics stitched
asciilifeform sadly does not yet have with what to actually look at the photo
asciilifeform: 'gimp' chokes.
asciilifeform: why's it a jpg anyway, wouldn't this introduce artifacts ?
asciilifeform: ( what it also does, is prevent from loading the pic in sections, which is annoying )
amberglint: asciilifeform: can you cut the picture back with something like imagemagick?
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: is this the orig form of the https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Oki_m6283_metal.jpg item ? with dust & all ?
SeanRiddle: I'm taking jpgs with the camera and then stitching those with fiji. It looks as good to me as using RAW, but a lot easier.
asciilifeform: it is my understanding that any dust at all is a problem for this job
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: were you ever able to actually re a circuit from your photos ?
asciilifeform: that 6502, is a 8 micron ic, almost half century old nao
asciilifeform: ( and there are at least a dozen micrographs available )
asciilifeform: ever succeeded with a 1um ?
SeanRiddle: That one was a blowtorch decap, so some of the dirt is residue from the plastic encapsulation. I can clean that with HN03.
asciilifeform: or hm, this one's about a 'Amstrad 40010'
SeanRiddle: I have not.
asciilifeform: blowtorch decap?!
SeanRiddle: www.seanriddle.com/decap.mp4
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: just so you're aware of the orig subj -- the ic we were looking to see decapped is worth mebbe 10,000 $ ea. ( and at that, i have 0 guarantee of being able to find more . ever. ) i have a grand total of 2.
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: the link 404's
SeanRiddle: Heh - I was not told the value! Why not use a pro decapper? But you wouldn't torch that package.
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: pro decapper + microscopist runs about 30k. so that's on hold pending asciilifeform actually having 30k to use on proj.
asciilifeform: if i had 5 or 6 of the 'ivories' i would happily give 1 to SeanRiddle , ftr. but currently must pass.
SeanRiddle: Yeah, I'd be too nervous anyway!
asciilifeform: ( it aint even matter of cost; simply we're dealing with an almost-extinct animal. there's maybe a few dozen of these left in the wild, optimistically )
amberglint: twenty of them were recently scrapped for gold...
mircea_popescu: re argentine lulz, it seems there's an unadvertised trade war going on, in the limited sense that the us produces some soy the chinese deem too shitty to buy. better living through chemistry results.
SeanRiddle: Looking at the package, I'm guessing the protrusion on the bottom would pop off, revealing the top of the die.
asciilifeform: amberglint: indeed, link is in the log
asciilifeform: SeanRiddle: shrobe's photo suggests that die top is on top of package
asciilifeform: but currently hard to be certain
SeanRiddle: I can see traces on the pin side, making me think that the die bonds to them and the heatsink on top is the bottom of the die.
asciilifeform: possible
asciilifeform: i was gonna have the thing xrayed, to learn the truth, but this also not done yet.
mircea_popescu: you know, i think he actually has a point ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he does : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix_ivory.jpg object dun look removable, but rather like it was inserted from other end
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was this the http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mp.gif thing ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876669 << wouldn't it be easier to just present them separate ? not like people can't cat at home.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 19:58 SeanRiddle: Yeah, that was something like 39x60 pics stitched
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: stiching is quite cpu/ram-heavy
asciilifeform: ( recall, ~no room for error )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 19:55 asciilifeform tries to find sumthing that'll display that thing without choking
asciilifeform: in pro shops, they use microscope with stepper motor
mircea_popescu: (which gimp does ok, but then again needs the ram)
asciilifeform: ( sorta like how traditional flatbed scanner worx )
mircea_popescu: i dunno, maybe i'm just not grasping something fundamental. but it seems to me that for reversing work, 2400 pics with margins beats a 600mb monstrosity.
mircea_popescu: people only look in one spot at a time anyway
asciilifeform: really this thing oughta be saved for proper SEM . but currently notenuff dough for this pleasure.
mircea_popescu: is the idea to do machined reversing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's always machined, it's more or less impossible otherwise.
asciilifeform: a kind of specialized ocr.
mircea_popescu: in my mind people just sat with a patient needle and marked down 300k locations.
asciilifeform: ( esp. considering that the transistors were placed by machine to begin with, so they aint in any human-comprehensible order like they are on z80 or 6502 etc )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they do sit with needle. but only ~after~, to correct obvious oopses in ocr.
asciilifeform: otherwise 1000 manyears.
mircea_popescu: how do you know when they're done ?
mircea_popescu: "obvious" open ended enough.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: same way you know when http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834941 is done.
mircea_popescu: ie "it works" ?
asciilifeform: ( i.e. you don't, not till you actually bake a working and satisfying cloned circuit )
asciilifeform: correct.
mircea_popescu: but i mean... you don't even have the spec against which to check this "works" ?
asciilifeform: all that presently exists in the wild is 1) small number of actual 'ivory' machines/cards, where could put cloned ic 2) the software/os stack
mircea_popescu: maybe you end up with bugbolix machine, accurate to the collection of userland software bugs.
mircea_popescu: (this so neatly mirrors ye trb/prb discussions it bleeds)
asciilifeform: can only rule this out once 'fit in head' yes
asciilifeform: exactly like trb.
asciilifeform: there is no escape from this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and for the puyrpose of fit in head, do you agree 2.4k pics with margins better than 600mb flatpile ?
asciilifeform: fwiw in su they cloned ic's photographically, without any attempt to actually grasp the contents
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, gotta preprocess the thing to get a draft netlist (i.e. what's connected to what) and only then can walk the photos to search for barfolade
mircea_popescu: i hereby dub one possible end result of this process "the bugbolix plague".
asciilifeform: e.g. 'hey why is power connected to ground, must be a speck of skin in pic'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw folx did clone e.g. i386. it can be done.
asciilifeform: my 'cyrix' worked a+++.
mircea_popescu: i agree it can. i also think it can result in some pretty lulzy "electrolytes that plants need".
asciilifeform: if done sov-style -- can.
asciilifeform: as it is, micrography only good as 'part of balanced diet' along with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1876069 intel and the like.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-29 19:24 asciilifeform: on other front, phf : on occasion of the most recent bolix thread , i went and looked again at the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1771955 artifact ; it is interesting that they provided 128 iron types, incl. bignum, but not a 'bignum of fixed N words'. i guess in '80s ~nobody was thinking of crypto at all. ( and i was prolly unduly pessimistic to the orig finder of $item, it is prolly 95% of what's needed for cycle-accurate clone.
mircea_popescu: you know, if we had working svg thius would be such an eminent application for a svg scroll-through-er.
asciilifeform: verily.
mircea_popescu: interlinked everythyings, adnotate-able...
asciilifeform: would ideally be sumthing that doesn't blow 100 bytes on erry bit of the image like that htmlistic war crime does.
mircea_popescu: the more we tal;k about this, the more it's evident what's lacking isn't MERELY x or y. we're lacking a buncha pieces here.
mircea_popescu: rather productive discussion.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is there any difference between the netlist and a binary tree of transistors ?
mircea_popescu: or w/e, the list of binary trees, admitting somehow there's unconnected islands
asciilifeform: i was about to answe this:
asciilifeform: the reason why the scheme is possible to do at all, is that the transistor is not the fundamental semantic unit of the device
asciilifeform: what one does, is to try to determine the repeating functional blocks ( adders, shifters, srams, etc )
asciilifeform: rather than 'raw netlist of transistor'
mircea_popescu: if you were to attempt to do ~more~ machined reversing than merely "build me netlist", wouldn't the correct approach be to a) build binary tree of transistors and b) sick tree massager on it ?
asciilifeform: and ~then~ ( and this is what we have, but su reversers did not ) you load the thing into a (fairly inexpensive) fpga and try functional tests.
mircea_popescu: ie, while transistor is not natural language semantic unit, isn't it machine language semantic unit ?
mircea_popescu: (the "tree massager" in question being another major moving part we lack, obviously.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is certainly physically possible to do it that way, but the recognition is at best O(N^2) so one'd need some rather substantial irons; and also correspondingly moar sensitive to specks of dust in photo
mircea_popescu: yes -- nevertheless, it'd actually make fucking sense, as opposed to prayer-driven methodology.
asciilifeform: ideally you find the repeating patterns of transistorage and go straight to functional units ( granted this is only practical for bolix, 486, and newer, where there actually ~exist~ these units, as opposed to hand-optimized arbitrary transistorage )
mircea_popescu: i bet you what you want you'll find hand massage in bolix.
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=97 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 11/16/2018
mircea_popescu: a horse that goes 90% of the way to paris still can't make any part of stagecoach to paris.
asciilifeform: supposedly it was 100% machine-genned (possibly the 1st such ic)
asciilifeform: hence the 'ns' threads
mircea_popescu: i do not believe.
asciilifeform: i dun find it esp. difficult to swallow, ~100% of iron since 1990 or so was made this way.
asciilifeform: naturally designer gave the machine hints as to where to put what
asciilifeform: just like i do when laying out PCB for e.g. FG
mircea_popescu: i will take my chances on these four deuces. "engineers", i know what this means.
asciilifeform: at any rate the q is answerable. (~if~ we had with what to look inside)
mircea_popescu: true enough.
asciilifeform: once you have pics, can massage 9000 ways to heaven. but not prior.
mircea_popescu: problem being that massage will prolly inform future pic taking. but anyway.
mircea_popescu: we defo need a tree massager. this problem will reccur.
asciilifeform: sorta why one generally wants to capture 9000x moar detail than 'strictly needed'
asciilifeform: ( hence SEM vs opticals etc )
asciilifeform brb,t-time
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle incidentally, you ever saw http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875800 discussion ?
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 19:28 mircea_popescu: you put in a violet source, take a pic. next you put in a green source, take a pic. next, yellow and red.
SeanRiddle: I haven't. Fiji can do focus stacking, but I haven't tried that yet. I've got an XY table and I rigged a stepper to the focus knob, so I could take n pics at different focus for each tile.
mircea_popescu: the idea being that there's an absolute limit to optical microscopy due to quantum phenomena (hence the heisenberg reference, his original work as critiqued by bohr dealt exactly with this). however, these limits also depend on frequency, and from comparing measurements in different lights one can get some error correction.
mircea_popescu: but the issue isn't focus ; it simply is the frequency of the photons involved.
mircea_popescu: re : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876662 what one ends up doing is curl -k 'https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/archive/4/44/20180902023042!Oki_m6283_metal.jpg/114px-Oki_m6283_metal.jpg' > sean.jpg (note the quotes because wikipedia is made by pedos who are also retarded, and includes bashes and shit).
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 19:52 SeanRiddle: That's the lo-res pic. Wikimedia sometimes chokes on my big pics, and I have to upload smaller ones. Go down to the File History and there's a link to a 43Kx45K pixel pic.
mircea_popescu: SeanRiddle why the hell would you use this batshit insane process. what's wrong with linking things like sane people, off your own domain and all ?
SeanRiddle: When I starting posting pics I was hosting my domain at home and the big pics would kill my access. blogspot limits the max size, so I uploaded to wikimedia. Now I'm using a real web host, so I guess I could put everything there.
mircea_popescu: for srs. like a respectable gent.
mircea_popescu: ideally both the pre-stitch and the post-stitch, and absolutely do not use jpg.
mircea_popescu: it may look the same to you, and to anyone else. but if it flipped over a pixel somewhere you're looking at a potential man-year to find where the fuck.
mircea_popescu: the problem with the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876736 standard is that one can take relatively few chances.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 20:20 mircea_popescu: ie "it works" ?
mircea_popescu: (this is not strictly about jpg. ~any~ image compressing/processing/fucking with the sensor data is dubious. even using such a thing as the camera's "soft" focus (as opposed to the lens-driven hard focus, some handhelds offer this internal processor-driven cvasi-focus) is a bad idea for this task. exact discussion of "whitening" and other such pattern-inserting nonsense from crypto)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876667 << proper slr, not soapbox , so loox on that front
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 19:55 SeanRiddle: It's a Canon EOS 5D
asciilifeform: ( i'm assuming, with microscope barrel mount ? )
asciilifeform: when using mounted slr, focus is solely in the microscope's optics
asciilifeform had, yrs ago, access to this setup, but sadly cannot afford to re-create it in torture room, was spiffy 'zeiss' thing
SeanRiddle: Yes; Olympus photomicro adapter
asciilifeform: if i had the floor space, would just pick up surplus SEM, it costs approx same as ~good~ optic funnily enuff
asciilifeform: ( 5-10 k u.s. $ )
asciilifeform: the surplus units want 10 or so square metres tho, of decent climate-controlled floor.
asciilifeform: plus (typically) 3phase.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 21:40 mircea_popescu: < kanzure> jrayhawk_: would you be willing to host a microscope? responsibilities would include keeping it plugged in and internet connected. also there would be an irc bot that controls where it looks. you'd also be pestered to load samples periodically. << did this 2014 idea ever get implemented ?
asciilifeform: from there , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1705799 << lul for ave1's lang study
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 22:19 asciilifeform: phf: 'Собрал царь зверей всех животных в лесу на поляне и говорит: - Cегодня мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот маленький. Правильно ежик? - Даааааа-Даааааа! - сказал ежик. - А завтра мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот большой. Правильно бегемот? -
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, hey ave1 , can has approved comment!!1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you odn't like uruguay for the purpose ?
asciilifeform: i'd like uruguay, or antarctica, or just about anywhere.
asciilifeform: hard part is obv. not 'where to put SEM' lol.
asciilifeform: ( nor 'where plug in SEM'. it's 'where plug in asciilifeform' )
mircea_popescu: and we're all awaiting with bated breath you settling on something.
asciilifeform: lol mircea_popescu phrases it almost as if asciilifeform were buridaning in front of a set table
asciilifeform: 'pick sumthing! all fresh!'
asciilifeform: prolly oughta add that surplus SEM in particular ( and similar irons ) 1) generally live in usa 2) dun exactly fit in smuggle-trunk under old shirts
asciilifeform: prolly wrong approach overall, at that, really oughta find a ave1 or spyked fella with keys to adult lab somewhere.
asciilifeform: sorta how asciilifeform had 'the keys' in 2010 and had all the ducks lined up to run schwartz eotvos, and would have at least achieved some lulz if uncle al had not chickened
asciilifeform: had all the requisite backroom deals & all, but not the fist-sized benzyl xtal, so no dice.
asciilifeform: !#s calorimeter
asciilifeform: ^ somewhere in the old thrds.
asciilifeform: i still can't fucking believe that d00d. 'my experiment requires 3 litres of virgin tears' 'hey al, i took 300 virgins and ran then rom-coms until they cried 3L, here it is in a mason jar' 'but! reasons!'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> prolly oughta add that surplus SEM in particular ( and similar irons ) 1) generally live in usa 2) dun exactly fit in smuggle-trunk under old shirts << If you can produce an invoice I can recieve it as a prepackaged good
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: we're talkin' half a railcar
BingoBoingo: Well, fill the other half of the container with rockchip plants
asciilifeform: i dun think they'd swallow a 'this is worth 500, rly, srsly' 'receipt' for it.
BingoBoingo: worth ~500 USD/ton
asciilifeform: and i aint got 30% of the 400k they'd think it costs.
BingoBoingo: It's for refurbishing
asciilifeform: let's make a +ev pizarro 1st, lol
asciilifeform: before BingoBoingo starts to picture where he'd park a 10 m^2 SEM
asciilifeform: ( even supposing i devise a means of teleporting one to BingoBoingostan )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( even supposing i devise a means of teleporting one to BingoBoingostan ) << Slow boat with your workshop
asciilifeform: for some reason i immediately picture that story where 'abrams' tank was smuggled to su in diplo-crates, piecemeal
BingoBoingo: Well, Assange taught us Ecuador can't diplo-crate
asciilifeform: can't, won't, i've nfi
asciilifeform: i have difficulty picture how it couldn't, if wanted.
asciilifeform: they like the lolcat exactly where he is, i suspect.
BingoBoingo: Well, you know how Latino elections swing bigger
asciilifeform: afaik ec is a miamistan exactly like the others
BingoBoingo: Sure, but they swing between "Make Miami in Ecuador" and "Make Ecuador Miami Again"
asciilifeform: iirc #2 won election in argentina, made 0 diff except aggravated http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876396 lulz
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 16:25 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/argentina-buys-us-soy/ << Qntra - Argentina Buys US Soy
BingoBoingo: If you gotta feed the Argentards soy, why not feed them crap while China's buying the good stuff
asciilifeform: just picture, if they'd kept the whore , the argentards might finally have keeled over and mircea_popescu would possibly be done by now bulldozing the ruins and terraforming like mars
BingoBoingo: They haven't quite locked her up yet
asciilifeform: ( as i understand , it's a++ real estate, supposing you were to redditbag all of the bipedals )
BingoBoingo: Not all of them. Just the moms and older along with the steers
asciilifeform: i'ma leave this one to the experts.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, if you are setting down something heavy for a while Uruguay's got great bedrock
asciilifeform: eh it aint a holography rig, dun need 4 tonnes of ballast
asciilifeform: does need 3phase mains and reasonably room-temp / dehumidified air tho ( vacuum pump )
asciilifeform: but even more than this, needs economic underpin for existence
asciilifeform: i dun have a moolah empire that could run one as public service.
asciilifeform: it's rather like a 'caterpillar'. how many folx do you know who have own 'caterpillar' and dun work it erry day for daily bread.
asciilifeform: !#s from:mircea_popescu coffee grinder
a111: 11 results for "from:mircea_popescu coffee grinder", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea_popescu%20coffee%20grinder
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 23:13 mircea_popescu: but if i buy coffee grinder for factory, it is to work at all times, and girls will change their schedule to keep it going, not it to accomodate them.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it's rather like a 'caterpillar'. how many folx do you know who have own 'caterpillar' and dun work it erry day for daily bread. << At least 3 come to mind
asciilifeform: why would they do this
BingoBoingo: Farming
asciilifeform: ditch-digging hobby ??
asciilifeform: ah so they ~do~ work it then
BingoBoingo: No where near every day
asciilifeform: yes but presumably often enuff to not rent
BingoBoingo: That part's harder to discern. Depends on how often the other tractors sink into the muck
BingoBoingo: Or how often the road needs snow plowed
BingoBoingo: Having a rebuilt caterpillar is usually a result of it being inconvenient to rent when it brings the most convenience
asciilifeform: rright, sorta how asciilifeform ended up with various (smaller) irons
asciilifeform: ( it ~is~ possible to rent e.g. oscilloscopes. but by the time you do it, you'll forget why you even wanted )
asciilifeform: it'd be like renting knife and fork to eat dinner
asciilifeform: i kinda suspect that if there's a pro microscopist reading these threads, he's busting his gut laughing just like surgeon may have laughed at the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739725 thread
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 18:07 mircea_popescu: you can't do self-amputation.
asciilifeform: 'omfg he wants SEM for 1 shot'
BingoBoingo: Well, for one shot, then another...
asciilifeform: prolly i oughta point out that a '90s surplus SEM won't do jack against 2000s-era ics
asciilifeform: it's only good for bolix.
asciilifeform: ( or rather, for recent crapola you'd need ion accelerator and other items that quickly take the buildup cost to 6 figs , even if bought 2ndhand )
asciilifeform: ... and then you need customers.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it's a biz, there are folx who do it, i've talked to half dozen of'em last yr ( all in cn , 0 in latrine america ) -- but i dun presently know how to break into it
asciilifeform: ( or even ~whether~ to -- rly, become piano tuner just cuz i have this 1 piano that's out of tune.. )
BingoBoingo: In other news, the poor kiosk on the block was apparently a victim of walk in and walk out with something shoplifting for a second time this week
BingoBoingo wonders if Vzla or Brasil might have the right equipment otherwise employed
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: http://lnnano.cnpem.br/laboratories/lme/ << Maybe shoot them a letter?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/feds-issue-fines-and-cuffs-to-older-black-men-and-their-handlers-over-endorsement-deals/ << Qntra - Feds Issue Fines And Cuffs To Older Black Men And Their Handlers Over Endorsement Deals
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ^ orig didn't rhyme worth half a shit, i tried to fix bug.
asciilifeform: ftr mayakovsky had the presence of mind to eat ~his~ mauser when it dawned on him that things weren't playing out.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why so far as brazil? what, BingoBoingostan has no university ?
BingoBoingo: Brazil's a sort of Germany. It's the first place to look for capital equipment to rent on the continent
deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2018/there-are-channels-for-that/ << Daniel P. Barron - There are channels for that
asciilifeform: 'Some lines have been removed or altered due to offensive language or for not relating to the topic.' rly? srsly?
danielpbarron: yeah, i don't want to offend people over things that aren't nessessary (the Gospel is offensive enough)
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 17:33 mircea_popescu: you're kinda famous for your generosity in this vein, actually.
asciilifeform: watch d00d come back in 6 mo., having read log and his 3rd eye opened.
BingoBoingo: Invisible third eye or brown third eye
asciilifeform: if it's the latter, i won't bother to report
asciilifeform: did give him a door to knock on, if the former.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/qntra-s-qntr-november-2018-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2018 Report
asciilifeform: ftr nobody's knocked on that door yet. #a is a pretty quiet castle.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876522 << relatedly i have an old cruddy b00k in back room shelf, where spine reads 'THE OF' (some claptrap by b. russel, iirc, faded )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 18:15 mircea_popescu: i esp like the - , ! sendoff
asciilifeform: pet : 'let's throw out THE OF' a : 'only if you write me a new one'
asciilifeform continues on 2nd pass of l0gz,
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876532 >> behold, '8,054,179,498 Words Consed' << what else do ya know of in 1980s that chugged through 288 GB (!) ?! ( bolix had 36bit word )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 18:23 amberglint: I found a couple more bits about the Ivory https://i.imgur.com/m5HvPHA.png https://i.imgur.com/QEzR2po.png
asciilifeform: i'd bet swapping ~that~ to/from '80s 'fujitsu eagle's took most of those 6months !
asciilifeform: picture what those folx could've done with modern fab.
asciilifeform: 'Before leaving this subject, I should mention that there have been a number of interesting LISP Machine designs done outside the U.S., particularly in Japan. For example, see [Hayashi]' << asciilifeform once spent coupla months trying to dig up these. and europistan's 'racal norsk' also. found ~0.
asciilifeform: all buried beneath the sands, even moar so than bolix.
asciilifeform: even from xerox's lispm i was able to find moar.
asciilifeform: ( it dun help that asciilifeform's jp is ~on par with a kindergartener's. slowly works on fixing this, but it's a far backburner item and i dun expect to get far in the near fyootoor )
asciilifeform: jp was a hair's width away from picking up the torch that anglotardistan dropped, and anglos knew this, and so in late '80s they engineered an economic implosion for'em
asciilifeform: in which ~all r&d perished
asciilifeform: !#s fifth generation supercomputer
a111: 0 results for "fifth generation supercomputer", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fifth%20generation%20supercomputer
asciilifeform: jp wunderwaffen, '80s. evaporated without a gram's trace.
asciilifeform: db instead of idjit filesystems, parallel-errything instead of vonneumann, etc.
asciilifeform: was pretty concrete thing, rather than vapour as ordinarily presented in anglowank.
asciilifeform: from looking with the right magnifying glass, asciilifeform formed distinct impression that jp was raped by usg in erry hole not once, as ordinarily supposed, but ~twice~.
asciilifeform: ( whether there'll be a third time, i have nfi, possibly thing has no moar life juice remaining to stand up a third time )
asciilifeform: lol hey didn't we walk past that thing
asciilifeform: whatever it is
asciilifeform: loox rather familiar.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's that figure look like in gringodubloons ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That is gringodabloons
asciilifeform: aaa aite
BingoBoingo: Looks similar to places we walked past because painted in a pasta shop livery
asciilifeform: i have nfi who and why would pay that for a 2room orc box
BingoBoingo: But in an area with little reason to walk to
asciilifeform: could buy e.g. three palaces in timisoara
asciilifeform: with that
asciilifeform: four palaces.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i have nfi who and why would pay that for a 2room orc box << That's the ask. It's a sale not a rental. Gotta break some balls
BingoBoingo: Real estate sale prices in MVD are trending down, because Argentina doesn't have money to shelter anymore
BingoBoingo: Apartments of the same or smaller size as Pizarro habitation module have a list price of ~100,000 USD even for sale. Rent for 14,500 to 16,000 pesos.
asciilifeform: i can already picture idjit owner, 'i will sell! one day! this warehouse! and buy miami ticket!'
BingoBoingo: Not being Argentina apparently busting balls to actual sale price ~30-70% lower is done here. Have not had opportunity to experiment myself
asciilifeform: if i had with what to experiment, would prolly not resist temptation and go , experiment
BingoBoingo: And prices do drop fast north of "Autodromo Virtual" but security needs increase
asciilifeform: as it is, 30% of maxint is still maxint as far as asciilifeforms go
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma bet that's either a rent price , a misprint, or a bold lie
asciilifeform: it's missing at least 1 zero
BingoBoingo: No, that's a sale price, but you are stuck with the operating cell phone repair business
BingoBoingo: That's the buyer beware
asciilifeform: really , stuck ?
asciilifeform: and if you'd rather sell rakes ?
asciilifeform: what happens ?
BingoBoingo: Well, can sell rakes. But who knows what debts privious operator incurred with odd agencies that attach to the cell phone business
asciilifeform: there is that.
asciilifeform: there is also that it loox like literally 4 sq. m. room, a la ru prison, no bed space.
BingoBoingo: Also, close to buy far enough from foot traffic to not get customers
asciilifeform: there was a shithole like that in the carriageway of the 19th c megablock asciilifeform grew up in. d00d fixed clocks.
asciilifeform: ( i think places like that were converted coachman's quarters )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that dun look habitable either
asciilifeform: prolly even lacks own latrine
BingoBoingo: Probable
asciilifeform: in these you won't put not only microscope, but not hammock either.
BingoBoingo: Well, you wanted to walk away from maxint properties unencumbered by operating businesses
asciilifeform: lol but i can live in refrigerator crate for phree. dun need to pay 3k dubloon.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: these all look to be same type of item.
BingoBoingo: Well, in the broken dreams category the properties often come with rental contract
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> lol but i can live in refrigerator crate for phree. dun need to pay 3k dubloon. << To live in refrigerator crate in MVD requires constant vigilance and learning Pichi cultural competence
asciilifeform: i'm sure it does.
asciilifeform: but prolly not much moar so than the holes in wall.
BingoBoingo: Quite a bit more
BingoBoingo: Can improvise a locking door for hole in wall and play squatter's law game to regularize the address
asciilifeform: do they have the u.s.-style wank where 'ohnoez you can't LIVE here, it's COMMERCIAL addy' ?
BingoBoingo: They don't seem to. Couple older dudes appear to live in the back rooms of their larger kioskos
asciilifeform: so why 'squatter law' then
asciilifeform: buy, if yer hammock fits, live
asciilifeform: shower when it rains, iguess
asciilifeform: waltz the peru chick on that pnoje repair counter
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> so why 'squatter law' then << Because there are hole in walls that don't have addresses, quite a few near feria zone. Occupy, sign up for a power connection, and get an address.
BingoBoingo: !!up amberglint
deedbot: amberglint voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: i'ma bet the 3k u.s. hole in wall comes with 30k of debt tho. otherwise who would it be in them cardboard boxes.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fella has key, can self-power
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i'ma bet the 3k u.s. hole in wall comes with 30k of debt tho. otherwise who would it be in them cardboard boxes. << Pasta base is reportely a hell of a drug and it is not a free drug
asciilifeform: wassat?
amberglint: BingoBoingo: I was about to up myself, but thanks :)
BingoBoingo: The local favored cocaine alkaloid
BingoBoingo: Like crack, but instead of smoking it normally gets gummed
asciilifeform: sounds approx as appealing as krokodil
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 00:35 asciilifeform: 'Before leaving this subject, I should mention that there have been a number of interesting LISP Machine designs done outside the U.S., particularly in Japan. For example, see [Hayashi]' << asciilifeform once spent coupla months trying to dig up these. and europistan's 'racal norsk' also. found ~0.
asciilifeform: amberglint: i'm familiar
asciilifeform: was last-days thing
amberglint: and the end of the paper mentions a Soviet Lisp machine
amberglint: "После завершения работ по ЕС-2702 были начаты работы по аппаратной реализации языка Лисп. Эти работы были стимулированы всплеском интереса к задачам искусственного интеллекта."
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> sounds approx as appealing as krokodil << Use is pretty much exclusive to pichis and children
asciilifeform: amberglint: also familiar. it went to same place as all the non-pdpclone su stuff.
asciilifeform: i.e. /dev/null
amberglint: that's a shame
amberglint: why the hell Soviets were so hell-bent on not doing anything original
asciilifeform: managerial decision, some time circa 1978. we had thread here. old fart proclaimed 'use warez from usa, why pay software dev'
amberglint: these days Russia buys outdated fabs from AMD and IBM
asciilifeform: rents now. taiwan.
asciilifeform: !#s elbrus
asciilifeform: ^ see also
amberglint: that too
amberglint: AMD fab was gathering dust for ~7 years before it was recently put to any use
asciilifeform: and they fab photoclones of ameri-crud.
asciilifeform: today just like in 1978.
asciilifeform: possibly not 1 actual native designer left alive.
amberglint: the Elbrus designers can count as native, no?
asciilifeform: old elbrus
asciilifeform: current one is a 'sparc'
amberglint: really? afaik it's a VLIW that has nothing to do with SPARC
asciilifeform: there's 2 , 1 clone of 'itanic', 1 of sparc iirc
asciilifeform: neither seems to exist on commercial markets anywhere
amberglint: I've tried to obtain any docs for the VLIW thing, but it's under NDA for some reason
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform and then mircea_popescu variously attempted to buy , 0 to show for it )
asciilifeform: its under nda cuz it's dead-certainly a crude ripoff of existing ameri-trash
amberglint: someone found the compiler for it though: https://www.linux.org.ru/forum/talks/14502270
asciilifeform: same reason the video card crapolas are closed source
amberglint: the lead designer of the VLIW Elbrus was later hired away by Intel
asciilifeform: in fact looks like itanium.
asciilifeform: aka 'the itanic'
asciilifeform: amberglint: recall how microshit hired away entire staff of borland ?
asciilifeform: famously sent limousine to pick them ALL up on same evening
asciilifeform: nomoar borland.
amberglint: asciilifeform: never heard of the limousine, but I know that C# was made by Delphi people
asciilifeform: and arm64 by hired-away DEC alpha folx
asciilifeform: ( after which nomoar dec alpha )
asciilifeform quite fond of alpha, the architecture book was ~thin~
amberglint: the Chinese apparently borrowed Alpha for their homegrown arch
asciilifeform: ... and microcode was documented, os writer could add new instrs
asciilifeform: none of the chinese archs, interestingly, available commercially either
asciilifeform: rather like elbrus.
asciilifeform: 100% for internal use.
asciilifeform: i've been trying to buy a 'loongson' for 5+yrs nao.
asciilifeform: no canhaz.
amberglint: oddly enough, there's a university textbook on Elbrus, no instruction set there either: http://www.mcst.ru/doc/book_121130.pdf
asciilifeform: ( then they went and ~licensed~ american mips. and i stopped wanting to buy. i can buy mips already )
asciilifeform: mega-textbook, with no instr set, lol
asciilifeform: reads more like commercial brochure.
asciilifeform: pretty odd thing, has bus timings etc but indeed no instr set.
asciilifeform: what the fuck is wrong with these people.
asciilifeform: they seem to be heavily fucked in the head.
amberglint: yet "Рекомендовано ... в качестве учебного пособия для студентов высших учебных заведений"
asciilifeform: but ofcourse.
asciilifeform: i have a b00k like that here, 'учебное пособие по криптографии' somthing or other. which fails to contain rsa.
asciilifeform: some meathead minister signed off on it, and guesswat, it's Official textbook nao! in some shithole
amberglint: do you know that Elbrus has a youtube channel for some reason? it's pretty strange: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6pnRoVljXKpo5bgkVyQMJg
asciilifeform: lol 'can overclock elbrus ?'
asciilifeform: i.e. == 'can butcher loch ness monster ? can make sausage?'
amberglint: he also tries to sell it as a GTA and Doom machine
asciilifeform: prolly satire
asciilifeform: i dun think any plebe has laid hands on the thing or ever will
amberglint: he works at MCST
asciilifeform: well i dun work there , lol , so cannot say whether he does or no. but still funny.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 14:21 asciilifeform: fabricate it in 1uM or similar 1980s process. package with optical quartz lid , a la old EPROMs, for audit-with-childrens-microscope.
asciilifeform: as it is, they've copied ALL of the ameri-idiocies, incl. 'closed errything'
asciilifeform: intel is rubbish, but at least i can go to junkyard and get it.
asciilifeform: 'elbrus' can get in dreams only.
amberglint: I wonder why do they even bother with this junk
asciilifeform: 'sovereignty'
asciilifeform: !!up amberglint
deedbot: amberglint voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: why not ask why mcst makes pentium clone. to run winblowz on.
asciilifeform: ( it does )
asciilifeform: what kind of sense does ~that~ make.
amberglint: the 'sovereign' fabs all run Cadence and Mentor Graphics stuff
asciilifeform: indeed they do
asciilifeform: on mswin.
asciilifeform: on, i'll add, imported intels.
asciilifeform: last yr ( and before ) i talked to a coupla ic fabs, in various countries. they all not only run winshit but demand that you use their 'standard cells', which available (surprise?) under nda
asciilifeform: as cadence crapola
asciilifeform: whole biz is rotten from head to feet.
amberglint: I've seen some open 130nm PDK for Magic CAD recently somewhere, can't find it
asciilifeform: pcb fabs, much more pedestrian affair, are run sanely, they eat PNGs and text file of coords/rotations for placer robot.
asciilifeform: but for some reason no ic fab does.
asciilifeform: concern appears to be 'But Our Seekrit Process Chem!1111'
asciilifeform: ( at 'modern' micronicities, fab process is no longer standard but custom to the chem, and entirely diff at each fab house. hence the proprietary tooling crapolade. )
asciilifeform: !#s mosis
asciilifeform: ^ see also
asciilifeform: approx same thing.
asciilifeform: there was a french one also, similar.
asciilifeform: + they charge weight in diamonds, per die.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 05:14 asciilifeform: there's a coupla 'small scale' fabs, but on close examination smell like ripoff, they ship with literally 0 guarantee of yield , and in laughable qty , and with laughable transistor count, and -- to add insult to injury -- die packaging not included, you gotta somehow find someone to do it, somewhere
amberglint: at least they eat input from Magic CAD without NDA crap?
asciilifeform: claims, at least.
asciilifeform not tried, and not about to pay 1000 $ ea. for ~unpackaged~ may-or-may-not-work dies
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu's hypothesis was that the whole thing is an 'idiot tax' for people who don't know how to get'em made in cn
asciilifeform: but we currently have 0 penetration into cn, so i've nothing to add to this yet
asciilifeform: there's arguably 2 separate problems at hand : 1) how to bake an ic such that it's an actual economic proposition, rather than resembling that car e. musk launched to mars 2) to get it done by someone other than malicious winshit-idiots . both -- currently open problems.
asciilifeform: i , for instance, dun have with what to launch car into mars. mircea_popescu -- has with what, but is smart enuff not to.
amberglint: has anyone tried to reverse-engineer Cadence shit?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but we currently have 0 penetration into cn, so i've nothing to add to this yet << Chinese tend to have more trouble with the letter "rr" than I do
asciilifeform: amberglint: not only not afaik; but even ~microshit word doc~ format not fully reversed yet.
asciilifeform: it's a moving target, elementarily
asciilifeform: by the time someone reverses, they change it, and force the idjit users to 'upgrade'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they aint got a 'r'.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently not. Not in the sense spanish has two of them.
asciilifeform: not in any sense.
asciilifeform: it aint phonemic to'em.
asciilifeform: sorta how the hindu glottal 'd' isn't to us.
asciilifeform: or those horrid 3 variant of thorn the arabs have.
BingoBoingo: Short walk (other side of front door) to the feria https://inmueble.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-457798235-en-cordon-_JM
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fwiw we definitely walked past that.
BingoBoingo: We did indeed
asciilifeform: wai no inside pics
asciilifeform: prolly trashed ?
asciilifeform: and that's a washington price. these people have fucked heads.
asciilifeform: even if cut it in half.
BingoBoingo: Inside prolly trashed
asciilifeform: i bet they get tax writeoff for 'not sold or rented it this yr, just like last 20 yrs' like ameritards get
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and that's a washington price. these people have fucked heads. << Well, how many dindus does Washington have vs how many Montevideo has
asciilifeform: still riotous
amberglint: asciilifeform: someone at UC Berkeley tried to suck grantolade by welding hardware GC to RISC-V: https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~maas/papers/maas-asbd16-hwgc.pdf
asciilifeform: amberglint: even sun flirted with iron gc, in '90s
asciilifeform: went nowhere
amberglint: lol yeah
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i bet they get tax writeoff for 'not sold or rented it this yr, just like last 20 yrs' like ameritards get << Well property taxes here like income taxes are relatively low.
BingoBoingo: IVA's the bitch
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: then it's straight miami 'I AM WORTH!' delusionism, i guess
BingoBoingo: Well, gotta talk em down
asciilifeform: amberglint: gc without tagged words is a lol
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for comparison : 100k in ye olde ro buys any of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-28#1743485
asciilifeform: and , for all i know, would buy a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-27#1743464
a111: Logged on 2017-11-27 23:46 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/timis_tower_1.jpg + http://www.loper-os.org/pub/timis_tower_2.jpg << subj ( and it dun fit in 1 frame, even )
asciilifeform: ( what the 'catch' is , iirc was discussed in the l0gz )
asciilifeform: i dun think i in entire life saw bldgs as sweet as the ones in timis.
asciilifeform: ( or smelled air as clean )
asciilifeform: or ate food as edible. etc
asciilifeform: it was a fuckin' valhalla ( admittedly, valhalla only while yer jacket pockets are fulla green )
asciilifeform: whatever pantsuitocalypse had killed it in mircea_popescu's eyes, was not detectable to my instruments.
asciilifeform: ( perhaps if one tried to set up there, would find out.. )
asciilifeform: beautifully depopulated , too, 0 crowds, 0 queues. sorta like a hypothetical bunenos aires after redditbagging complete.
BingoBoingo: And what happens when the somali syrian refugees walk there?
asciilifeform: they starve.
asciilifeform: hence why not walked.
asciilifeform: they haven't invented payola there yet.
asciilifeform: ( just like in ru -- 'refugees' only went to ru while finland border were open )
BingoBoingo: I thought they uninvented it
asciilifeform: not afaik
asciilifeform: out of what, would they.
BingoBoingo: Well, they had the whole communism thing where mircea_popescu got a silver spoon and everyone else payola
asciilifeform: ah that
asciilifeform: that world -- gone
asciilifeform: currently it's a mostly empty country, with a few 'mercedes' plants as 'economy'
asciilifeform: ( in bucharest there's a microshit bldg, where they keep amstan 's . but that's afaik more or less it )
asciilifeform: i went to a zoo. there was ONE other visitor, a brit.
asciilifeform: ( was there for ~4hrs, very relaxy spot. ~no other folx. )
asciilifeform: somehow montevideo with , what, 2mil+ people, can't keep a zoo open
asciilifeform: and timis with maybe 100k people, can
asciilifeform: i have nfi how it is even possible to have ~empty town where ~erry other walker you see on the sidewalk is a hot chix.
asciilifeform: but somehow there it was.
asciilifeform: ( or how meal that can't be bought in usa for $1000+ can cost 10 . )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> somehow montevideo with , what, 2mil+ people, can't keep a zoo open << Aparently there is another newer zoo
asciilifeform: oh hah. been to it yet ?
BingoBoingo: But less conveniently located
BingoBoingo: It's part of a "park" in favela land
BingoBoingo: Neighborhood may not be that bad, but it is at least a bus ride away in a direction that leaves me unenthused
asciilifeform: prolly worth going 1ce.
asciilifeform: gotta colour in that map.
BingoBoingo: There's another zoo not far in Atlantida, on the to visit list
asciilifeform: whoknows, maybe that's where they sell hdds..
BingoBoingo: operating factory with 3-phase service
asciilifeform: this thread leads to drink, so i'ma stop here for nao, off to non-electronic room, bbl.
mircea_popescu has just drank, can then pick it uo
mircea_popescu: in the other lulz : LordMPofTMSR 38M Master ~~~1y~~~~ "How goes ?" mermaidkynna 25F sub 4h "Good"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876836 << whole fucking idea is to a) lighten the load of dying empire ; b) round the coffers of republican corps to better divorce from vagaries of usg faux "market".
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 22:31 asciilifeform: prolly oughta add that surplus SEM in particular ( and similar irons ) 1) generally live in usa 2) dun exactly fit in smuggle-trunk under old shirts
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876843 << sort of thing that makes me suspicious of the whole "good science" theory etc. but, won't rehash, pretty sure we did that already to the point it died of end mommentum.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 22:37 asciilifeform: i still can't fucking believe that d00d. 'my experiment requires 3 litres of virgin tears' 'hey al, i took 300 virgins and ran then rom-coms until they cried 3L, here it is in a mason jar' 'but! reasons!'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876855 << pretty sure this actually occured kek.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 22:41 asciilifeform: for some reason i immediately picture that story where 'abrams' tank was smuggled to su in diplo-crates, piecemeal
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876876 << makes chainsaws too you know :D
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 22:56 asciilifeform: it's rather like a 'caterpillar'. how many folx do you know who have own 'caterpillar' and dun work it erry day for daily bread.
mircea_popescu: \http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876891 << kinda the problem, this is how airports end up owning a fleet of eg iceploughs : "we only need them 3 days each decade -- but as it happens it's always the exact fucking three day you can't possibly fucking find one to rent, of these items that otherwise go for 500 a day."
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 23:03 BingoBoingo: Having a rebuilt caterpillar is usually a result of it being inconvenient to rent when it brings the most convenience
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 23:14 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it's a biz, there are folx who do it, i've talked to half dozen of'em last yr ( all in cn , 0 in latrine america ) -- but i dun presently know how to break into it
mircea_popescu: "Rice, 30, first claimed to have raised $300m from AriseBank's coin offering, then upped that figure to $600m, and later promised this could be the first billion-dollar crypto-dosh offering. However, despite all that publicity and hype, it is claimed hundreds of punters invested just $4.25m in exchange for the bank's tokens." << keks. and this is after usg multiply-magic, "we found 777 kgs of cocaine in the shape of a toyota
mircea_popescu: plasticar whose glove compartment held a dime bag. whole item weight -- counts".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1876937 << this sorta thing... "picture what naggum could've done with vtrees and wots" etc. if only netwon had neutron gun!
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 00:33 asciilifeform: picture what those folx could've done with modern fab.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1876942 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1876009 ; also ended anglo finance and ~everything else. there's a ushinski story about the cat fighting a falcon, end results similar.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 00:38 asciilifeform: jp was a hair's width away from picking up the torch that anglotardistan dropped, and anglos knew this, and so in late '80s they engineered an economic implosion for'em
a111: Logged on 2018-11-29 17:55 mircea_popescu: led to the usual symptoms of imperial decay -- monetization of real estate (a bad idea throughout, even if it repatriated the money japs made selling toyotas/sinking detroit in the 70s -- sorta like arsenic is bad for you even if it "keeps syphilis inactive" and so on) ; the star model driving and being driven by the fashion cycle, and so the fuck on.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 00:43 asciilifeform: from looking with the right magnifying glass, asciilifeform formed distinct impression that jp was raped by usg in erry hole not once, as ordinarily supposed, but ~twice~.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877034 << weird "saving self" thing, like the indians have with ejaculation. seems nutty enough if expressed, but it's kinda my takeaway, soviet thought "last man to think wins".
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 01:12 amberglint: why the hell Soviets were so hell-bent on not doing anything original
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877053 << the "AriseBank" reason. there's this large class of idle idiots who think "secrecy" might be confused with value. much like there's a cloud of fat stupid old women not even the dogs would fuck, who imagine they're being coy.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 01:17 amberglint: I've tried to obtain any docs for the VLIW thing, but it's under NDA for some reason
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877082 << lmao. those two lines eminently bashable.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 01:27 asciilifeform: they seem to be heavily fucked in the head.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 01:59 amberglint: has anyone tried to reverse-engineer Cadence shit?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877191 << is one in timisoara also, "alcatel" of all things.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 02:32 asciilifeform: ( in bucharest there's a microshit bldg, where they keep amstan 's . but that's afaik more or less it )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877212 << you can have a decent, new construction, 4-6k sqm floor space metal structure warehouse in ro for 100k+/-. but yes, more generally there's no place for real estate like europe. rest of the world, latam especially, 100% africans, built five huts in fifteen centuries. of which two burned down, so the other three are EVEN MORE VALUABLE NOW
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 02:41 asciilifeform: this thread leads to drink, so i'ma stop here for nao, off to non-electronic room, bbl.
BingoBoingo: Sounds about right
BingoBoingo: Now if you want to see delusional cranked up a few notches... There's Paraguay https://inmueble.mercadolibre.com.py/MPY-400223044-vendo-quinta-en-minga-guazu-alto-paranakm-185codg38-_JM
amberglint: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877242 << getting more 'sovereignty' which supposedly impelled the ru gov to buy the fabs in the first place, could gradually replace the IC software stack with something homegrown if cared; nothing to impel anyone without those fabs, of course
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 03:31 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877135 << what would impel anyone to ?
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell amberglint your last line ties into the real estate thread. Easier to buy things than make things or have them made
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
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