Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-03-17 | 2017-03-19 → ↓
mircea_popescu: answert again.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: many thanks (added a trivial answer just to properly ack). ok time to sleep before blabbering again, mein gott
mircea_popescu: sleep tight.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-fabulous-baker-boys-2/ << Trilema - The Fabulous Baker Boys
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627436 << i saw a few 2's scroll by while writing the index to disk, i'm going to spend some time staring at it myself and then share it around
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 16:27 Framedragger: did you already have a chance to check if there are any tx collisions in the 32 bit address scheme? just curious
ben_vulpes: lest anyone forget, my skull-processes are geological in pace
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 03:45 asciilifeform: ~ $ 7k !
a111: Logged on 2017-03-08 23:59 phf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasfields << him
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: cool stuff!
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624858 << re rdtsc etc, i'm curious, does `grep -E '^model name|^cpu MHz' /proc/cpuinfo` consistently report to you mhz which are (+/-1 a mhz or so) equal to model frequency? (i know you can turn off linux powersaving etc features)
a111: Logged on 2017-03-10 23:41 asciilifeform: if it dun run at a constant rate: a) adjust your bios b) if fails, Throw it out!!
Framedragger: it doesn't do that for me (but i'm yet to double check that some 'additional' powersaving / freq scaling features are not enabled)
Framedragger: (okay apparently if your cpu supports 'constant_tsc' (as seen in cpuinfo) then this timestamp counter actually counts time and not processor ticks which is a *good thing* given freq scaling etc.; this is available in all new intel processors; what a rabbit hole, man)
Framedragger: (also due to modern out-of-order execution in cpu pipelines, may need to force all commands before the rdtsc call to be 'flushed', i.e. to have completed before the counter instruction is called; just noting for self)
mircea_popescu: basically, "modern" shit evolves towards uselessness.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628783 << to briefly revisit : contrary to what general public might expect (tm), if brother and sister conceive together the result is going to be a perfectly fine baby by any standards. yes it's possible they spawn a monster, but not likely, and moreover this is possible anyway. (for instance : rh negative women (but not positive) impregnated by rh positive man can and often do develop aut
a111: Logged on 2017-03-17 14:21 trinque: hm, if so the thing falls apart
mircea_popescu: oimmunity against either current fetus or, even more perverse, against the NEXT. girl has kid fine, but also prepares herself to murder next horribly. nature is FULL of such traps.)
mircea_popescu: the problem, however, is that under the skin-deep "kid is fine", his passive genetics have seriously weakened. if he lives as part of a larger population that does this, a few generations down the road genetic decay manifests and there's literally no hope -- the population will either move to exogamy or die out.
mircea_popescu: which is WHY the "dun fuck your sister" thing is such a huge taboo : a) it will kill you and b) you won't notice. that's the problem with these boiled frogs scenarios, from carbon monoxide poisoning to sibling conception to etc : you got no warning bells connected to THIS failure mode.
mircea_popescu: but what this means, obviously, taking the converse... is that there's a lot there than meets the eye. which is the point.
mircea_popescu: (hydrops fetalis / rhesus disease crumbs the rh thing)
mircea_popescu: this is, of course, also the natural basis for tyranny. it's nice and good to have independent agents, but there must be some sort of authority which tells them "hey, you're rh-, your husband rh+, you're seven months in, here's your rh antigen shot." this authority may be the wife, may be the husband, but if it's neither of them it'll have to be something outside, and if it is what do you call it ?
mircea_popescu: tyranny, exactly. "do this or die." that's the definition. and it's not yielding : if the wife/husband have the intellectual wherewithal to understand the whys and wherefores, fine, and bully for them. but if they do not -- it isn't thereby going away, lol.
mircea_popescu: so it stands entirely unrevisable : either you understand it or not ; whether you want it or not : here's your shot. tyranny.
mircea_popescu: add to this that there's a long list of such must-know (o hey, bought new house in so and so zone ? does it have a basement ? here's your geiger counter. what do you mean you don't understand ? atten-hut! nobody asked you what you understand, and it'll be 49.95
mircea_popescu: not to mention it keeps on growing, like any blockchain.
mircea_popescu: and here's something to amuse alf with : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6__KPOV4AA0_AK.jpg
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/724600905B1EC7B1AF7234B5B29D4A07AC2D9FFAFB84B76D7E396B40574E4760 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1522...5779 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.144.32.40 (ssh-rsa key from 5.144.32.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/724600905B1EC7B1AF7234B5B29D4A07AC2D9FFAFB84B76D7E396B40574E4760 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1500...2987 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.144.32.40 (ssh-rsa key from 5.144.32.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CH)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628916 << my opterons don't have a throttled clock, physically
a111: Logged on 2017-03-18 11:03 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624858 << re rdtsc etc, i'm curious, does `grep -E '^model name|^cpu MHz' /proc/cpuinfo` consistently report to you mhz which are (+/-1 a mhz or so) equal to model frequency? (i know you can turn off linux powersaving etc features)
Framedragger: hm ok.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628912 << whoever it was, he has problems paying, apparently, i bid on the 'macivory' and ended up getting '2nd chance offer, high bidder didn't pay' from seller
a111: Logged on 2017-03-18 06:11 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626739 << all three listings were bought by same person http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623423
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628909 << didja save the full colliding txids, ben_vulpes ?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-18 05:56 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627436 << i saw a few 2's scroll by while writing the index to disk, i'm going to spend some time staring at it myself and then share it around
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628934 << what were l0/l1 in the context? looks like i've fallen behind in altcoinology
a111: Logged on 2017-03-18 12:34 mircea_popescu: and here's something to amuse alf with : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6__KPOV4AA0_AK.jpg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall earlier discussion re "what is segwit" / deedbot ?
mircea_popescu: "l1" in this phraseology would be "deeds".
mircea_popescu: ie, they're not on-chain but once-removed.
mircea_popescu: l0 is verified by the bitcoin network as part of its functioning. l1 can be verified by anyone with a full blockchain.
asciilifeform: i can see how it could exist, but not what the point is
mircea_popescu: anywya, the reason i linked it is because obviously the ~whole space readily reduces to "what a number of people understood and remembered of what they at some point read on #trilema"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't see what the point for deeds is ?!
asciilifeform: not deeds, lol
asciilifeform: the heathen imitation
mircea_popescu: why implement deeds stupidly ? dude i dunno, why does apple exist.
mircea_popescu: cuz tards.
asciilifeform: 'i can't believe it's not bitcoin'
mircea_popescu: why do the 5000 bs "christian" us sects exist ?
mircea_popescu: absolutely no conceivable reason outside of some jolene or other needing to feel special.
mircea_popescu: plus they got into an argument over the carpeting color in 1956 and split the congregation.
mircea_popescu: in other not news, argentine reds are fucking fabulous omfg.
asciilifeform: speaking of schisms in heathendom, https://archive.is/WplLL >> 'A group of nearly 20 exchanges has released contingency plans in the event that the bitcoin network splits in two, creating two competing currencies. The exchanges are now planning to list Bitcoin Unlimited (BU) as they would an alternative cryptocurrency...'
mircea_popescu: eh, "nearly 20 exchanges", wut. "exchange" idiots have managed to trade the 2012 situation, where they had gone from 0 to almost 50% of bitcoin trading for a slow and agonizing death. i'd be surprised if all of them (which within 90% is the first two) actually cover 10% of bitcoin for fiat trade.
mircea_popescu: i know that out of the past 1mn i traded, 0% was on an exchange.
asciilifeform: the lulzy bit: '"However, none of the undersigned can list BTU unless we can run both [blockchains] independently without incident. Consequently, we insist that the Bitcoin Unlimited community (or any other consensus breaking implementation) build in strong two-way replay protection," the group said. "Failure to do so will impede our ability to preserve BTU for customers and will either delay or outright preclude the listing of BTU."'
mircea_popescu: heh. whatevs.
asciilifeform: i.e. 'we know about mircea_popescu's nuke, invent a magical bunker for us to hide in'
mircea_popescu: more like, the usg is under the pressure to appear to be doing something, has settled on "chipping", ie, o noes if an eth splits off bitcoin that'll be bad for bitcoin!!!1
mircea_popescu: not how it works irl on any models that don't include "we need to be seen as doing something please god" as a hard constraint.
mircea_popescu: but whatever, "who could have predicted" and "nobody wants a govt job anyway so you can't fire us."
diana_coman: !!rate lobbes 2 Made a very useful bot for #eulora. He's very modest, too.
diana_coman: !!v F8300762F6EDDA3F83850CF78CB1DB94E6D58544E2BB666233953DCEE839F8F4
deedbot: diana_coman rated lobbes 2 << Made a very useful bot for #eulora. He's very modest, too.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628943 << shoot, no, but i'll rechurn and do so
a111: Logged on 2017-03-18 14:20 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628909 << didja save the full colliding txids, ben_vulpes ?
ben_vulpes: when you say 'colliding txids', you mean 'colliding top 32 bits', right?
mircea_popescu: colliding hash
ben_vulpes: the methodology i recall was 'for each tx, take top 32 bits, use as index into array, increment byte at offset"
asciilifeform: colliding in top32 , ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu bows out of this discussion lest he fucks up the laboratory glass.
asciilifeform: which naturally includes the at least 4 known wholly-colliding hashes
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E9EE3CA9D5C60624D4305E16BBBC55FCBD35309FA1BB2AE5091363A87906CE1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1438...7997 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.12.32.81 (ssh-rsa key from 88.12.32.81 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (81.red-88-12-32.staticip.rima-tde.net. ES)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E9EE3CA9D5C60624D4305E16BBBC55FCBD35309FA1BB2AE5091363A87906CE1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1531...3483 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.12.32.81 (ssh-rsa key from 88.12.32.81 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (81.red-88-12-32.staticip.rima-tde.net. ES)
shinohai: Nice Japanese pron you found there ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: "Alf's Snake"?
asciilifeform got the ref
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628941 << he was offered an out on his later trades, because "why buy a macivory if you already bought a better macivory??", but i don't think he's going to take it
a111: Logged on 2017-03-18 14:19 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628912 << whoever it was, he has problems paying, apparently, i bid on the 'macivory' and ended up getting '2nd chance offer, high bidder didn't pay' from seller
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626568 << pretty much entire board is socketed, definitely the case for ivory
a111: Logged on 2017-03-13 16:49 asciilifeform: !~later tell phf i was thinking' of buying that 'ivory' and making a signal interposer . any idea whether the magic cpu was soldered down, or LIF socketed..?
phf: also by signal interposer you mean attaching a logic analyzer, or an actual gadget to sit on bus and do things?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-13 00:13 asciilifeform: !~later tell phf i dug out my crate of dead bolix boards, turns out i'm a chump, the pcb in question was a dead xl1200 ~i/o~ board. the only cpu on it is what looks like a z80! 0 smbx silicon.
asciilifeform: phf: i already have a logic analyzer, but would have to get it attaches to the pins on that thing
asciilifeform: *attached
asciilifeform: and where'd you get that one ?
asciilifeform: wanna sell?
asciilifeform: though the pinout is unknown, which is why i considered getting entire card
asciilifeform: literally everything else on that card, i have pinouts for, they are standard 1980s parts, it seems
asciilifeform: i can read the eprom, and the GALs
phf: i suspect there's a handful of pals there?
asciilifeform: and xray for the pcb tracks
phf: i'm not sure if it's working, it's from a "possibly broken" box, but i can lend you that one after i test it in my ivory, and if you have a viable project of some sort, i can probably get you more
asciilifeform: overall i suspect this is a more productive attack than microscopy ( though the thing was fabbed at 1 uM, it would be quite visible on optical microscope )
phf: my goal with that thing was to give it to zeptobars, but i'm not going to moscows for at least another 4 months
asciilifeform: i bid 2.6k usd on the ivory2 from earlier thread, then wss outbid, then offered nonbinding '2nd chance', but by then thought 'meh'
asciilifeform: phf wouldn't happen to know the pinout, by any chance ..?
asciilifeform: phun phakt, according to the press release for smbx, that thing had 370k transistor. slightly more than 386. (but around half as many as 486 iirc)
asciilifeform: it'd handily fit in a, e.g., xilinx spartan6.
asciilifeform: ( and picture if it could be made in modern fab, at GHz+ ! )
asciilifeform: betcha all of the 'life support' would fit also. just stick a few srams and a nic on top.
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, why does phf keep 'ivories' around if he has alpha, and on top of that a patched/working x64 generatron?
asciilifeform: ( ivories, and xl1200, and i forget what else )
asciilifeform: iirc alpha-genera on 1ghz alpha runs at 40x the clock that xl1200 ran at..
phf: both approaches are viable, you can use emulator as reference, you can also use real hardware as reference, with the solution meeting somewhere in the middle.
phf: i don't have an alpha though, same reason i don't have a macivory, i don't want to have to study/rely on all these other architectures
asciilifeform: oh hm i thought phf had an ivory
asciilifeform: asciilifeform would trade a 3620 and 2 alphas for 1 working ivory
phf: xl1201 is an ivory (ivory being a cpu inside the box, merlin being the architecture)
phf: macivory is an ivory on a board with all the i/o handled over a bus by a mac
asciilifeform: aha i knew this
asciilifeform: i was merely confounded by 'i'll test it in my ivory'
phf: aah, yeah, i'll test it in xl
phf afk
asciilifeform: also it seems like there were 2 macivories, the one i almost bought, was 4x slower than the last made, and had external ( on another nubus card ) ram
asciilifeform: which paradoxically makes it ~better~ from reversing pov
asciilifeform: ( much easier to snoop nubus cycles than to tap a bus on ancient and fragile card )
asciilifeform: phf: i've contemplated a 'cheat' : run macivory 'lifesupport' on patched m68k emulator (e.g., 'basilisk') that would bring nubus i/o out to a test stand, on which the card would sit
asciilifeform: then replace card with fpga+ivorychip (after reversed glue logic)
asciilifeform: then, eventually, whole shebang with fpga.
mircea_popescu: that said, it could of course be re-done, by people who understand completely what it did. but a lot more work than "print me these old family films on modern paper".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1629015 << odds are it couldn't be re-done in a current fab, the vast majority of current fab constraints go towards avoiding echos and other self-crits the design may impose upon itself. as the engineers at the time didn't labour under the same constraints, and they're cutting out way more than 99% of the theoretical design space, the odds their work product would work in 14nm process are ze
a111: Logged on 2017-03-18 18:06 asciilifeform: ( and picture if it could be made in modern fab, at GHz+ ! )
mircea_popescu: ro for any item larger than a few transistors' worth.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are ~no echoes etc at the 10mhz the thing worked at.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure. wasn't much of a problem in general in the z80s days
asciilifeform: and z80 worx ok in 22nm.
mircea_popescu: that dun mean you can just take the plans and do them in modern fab
mircea_popescu: does it ?
asciilifeform: and 6502
asciilifeform: that d00d (chuck peddle, iirc) who makes the wd65c02
mircea_popescu: how do you know this ?
asciilifeform: makes'em in modern fab, cheap, too, i have a bunch of samples here
mircea_popescu: gee. how big is a 22nm z80 lol
asciilifeform: i know this because he is fabless, makes'em at commercial 'by the pound' fabs
mircea_popescu had no idea.
asciilifeform: fabbing at other than 'bleeding edge' process, is apparently quite predictable and 'boring' affair
mircea_popescu: interesting.
asciilifeform: more like ship charter, than space launch.
asciilifeform: recently i found that even a plebe could, in theory, afford a few thou. units of 1980s-style fab.
asciilifeform: at , e.g., that french outfit
asciilifeform: is in the logs somewhere..
asciilifeform brb, meat
ben_vulpes read that as "chip starter"
deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2017/super-mario-bros-3/ << Daniel P. Barron - Super Mario Bros. 3
trinque: heh
mircea_popescu: shit check danielpbarron putting notes on his fucking categories.
mircea_popescu: mindblown
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-12#1162469 << I'm looking at scopes... anreccomendations on these? tektronix or rigol ones ok?
a111: Logged on 2015-06-12 20:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, ascii_field, how does one check cardanos without an oscilloscope ?
mod6: *any reccomendations
mircea_popescu: rigol prolly fine.
shinohai: o heya mod6 .... sorry about last night guess I fell asleep before I got your message, still need to see that output?
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, cool thx :]
shinohai: Mozilla says most people are "pretty fuzzy" about the way encryption works. Some 65 percent say they know a little about encryption but wish they knew more, while almost third said they know almost nothing about it. Those who claim to know more about encryption also report feeling more secure online, according to Mozilla."
mod6: shinohai: ah hey, no worries.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-19#1629073 << is what i have. cheapo, but worx with not-winblowz
a111: Logged on 2017-03-19 01:35 mircea_popescu: rigol prolly fine.
asciilifeform: relays ( i shit thee not ) click inside it, when switching ranges
mod6: is that normal?
mircea_popescu: well ... more or less lol.
asciilifeform: normal for starvation-cheap chinese instrument
mod6: haha. i've never used one of these before. but im interested in learning how to use it.
asciilifeform: ( analogue solidstate switches with low distortion -- cost money; relays have 0 distortion, and cost penny )
asciilifeform: iirc one of the other d00d at c2 confessed to having same rigol at home ( was it kako..? or davout )
mod6: do the tektronix ones only work with winblowz or something?
asciilifeform: most of the nice ( $1000 and up) scopes, are winblowistic aha
asciilifeform: ( serious aficionados would spit, say '2k + !')
mod6: ahh, ok. i wasn't even totally aware that you needed software along with the tool. i thought that the sample was just fed back to you on the little screen...
mircea_popescu: well yes but suppose you actually want the data
mod6: ah. makes sense.
mircea_popescu: sorta works like a tv box, more or less.
mod6: im a total n00b on this stuff, my apologies.
asciilifeform: there's 4MB in that rigol, if you want more than 4MB of tape, gotta plug into comp
mircea_popescu: ie, sure, you can watch curves of our lives. or record it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what'd possess someone to make 4mb internal storage you know ? put a fucking camera stick, have whatever, 32gv
asciilifeform: needs fast.
mircea_popescu: how slow can it be lel. modern camera films hdtv.
asciilifeform brb, meat
BingoBoingo just got back from corned beef and cabbage at long term drug and alcohol rehab facility. A+++ would eat holiday novelty food there again.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/shinohais-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-btu-breakage-heat-zcash-instamine-lulz-and-more/ << Qntra - Shinohai's Shitcoin Roundup Xtend: BTU Breakage Heat, Zcash Instamine Lulz, And More
shinohai: thx BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: ty shinohai
shinohai is now hungry since BingoBoingo mentioned corned beef and cabbage ....
mod6: http://trilema.com/2017/the-anti-woman/ << Footnote ', pro-tip has me lmao
mod6: *footnote 'v'
shinohai: They have to show off all that happiness that only Jeebus can give.
BingoBoingo: The socially aware cheerleader type girls seem to in my experience use the bared fangs smile successfully to intimidate lesser girls, the social inept church females seem to ape what the cool cheerleaders do without understanding
mircea_popescu: possibru
BingoBoingo: It's a seriously dangerous woodchipper idiocy. Not realizing an act of aggression for what it is and mistaking it for a welcome.
BingoBoingo: !!up jjj_f3hr
deedbot: jjj_f3hr voiced for 30 minutes.
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