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deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/10/02/on-the-ultimate-justification-of-the-ethics-of-private-property-by-hans-hermann-hoppe-adnotated-part-4/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - On the Ultimate Justification of the Ethics of Private Property by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, adnotated. Part 4.
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1sIY
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !!up mepian
deedbot: mepian voiced for 30 minutes.
mepian: Hello and thanks for the voice
mepian: I was reading Trilema for a while and decided to visit you here
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Choppied that piece up a bit.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> that magenta thing had me in stitches though. masterfully done. << tyvm
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/a-guide-for-torturing-cats-recently-voted-most-likely-to-psychopath-article-on-trilema-by-anonymous-and-otherwise-anodyne-romanian-speaking-derps/ << Trilema - A guide for torturing cats. Recently voted most likely to psychopath article on Trilema by anonymous and otherwise anodyne Romanian speaking derps.
mepian: after reading about the plight of asciilifeform trying to implement a driver for gigabit NIC http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544183 I wonder if rolling your own NIC on FPGA in this fashion https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:19005/FULLTEXT01.pdf would be less insane
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 17:36 asciilifeform: i hunted for years and found what imho is the simplest GB/s-capable nic, the rt8168. here is the linux driver, https://github.com/mtorromeo/r8168/tree/master/src
jurov: mepian: because drivers/interfaces for recent enough FPGAs are yet higher level of closedturdedness
deedbot: accepted: 1
PeterL: ^ I converted lamport paper to ascii, took some hand cranking to clean up after the machine gave it a try.
asciilifeform: mepian: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551507 << please read the xilinx threads .
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 13:19 mepian: after reading about the plight of asciilifeform trying to implement a driver for gigabit NIC http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544183 I wonder if rolling your own NIC on FPGA in this fashion https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:19005/FULLTEXT01.pdf would be less insane
a111: Logged on 2015-06-17 13:17 asciilifeform: you can pick up a textbook and write a dram controller for fpga from first principles - and it won't work. because, for starters, only a small number of output cells in the chip can function on both rising and falling edge of clock cycle (what 'ddr' means) and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric;
a111: Logged on 2014-12-11 01:52 asciilifeform: decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model
asciilifeform: and on at least six other occasions. somebody regularly shows up and asks re fpga.
asciilifeform: a subject which i wasted years on.
asciilifeform: mepian: what i want to make is a ZERO-closed-vendor-turd machine, among other things. and no existing fpga gives you this.
mircea_popescu: PeterL ahaha nice work.
mircea_popescu: !!up mepian
deedbot: mepian voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: http://archive.is/X4eIQ <<< a poor copycat of http://trilema.com/2016/my-first-bitcoin-or-how-do-i-get-some-satoshi/, 4 of the entires are the exact faucets trilema warns of dicking around with.
trinque: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-October/000237.html << seems like the ml eats "Re: " at the front of a message
trinque: *subject
mod6: mornin'
trinque: mod6: how goes it?
asciilifeform: 'This C64C used by a small auto repair shop for balancing driveshafts has been working non-stop for over 25 years! And despite surviving a flood it is still going...'
asciilifeform: 'No FUCKING Windows updates! No VIRUSES! No blue screens. Not even a "Guru Meditation" or 3 bombs... Just a working horse. That's what a computer supposed to be for you.'
mod6: trinque: good! looks to be a busy week.
mod6: you?
trinque: same and same.
adlai: mircea_popescu: cheers! now i, too, can tell #cat-v that "there's no way that's the REAL mircea because ..."
mircea_popescu: because ?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/10/ethereum-developers-reach-violent-part-of-huffing-binge-with-come-at-me-bro/ << Qntra - Ethereum Developers Reach Violent Part Of Huffing Binge With "Come at me bro"
mircea_popescu: shinohai BingoBoingo ITS authors omygerd.
BingoBoingo: sry, fxd
adlai: doncha remember, "sl_ seriouslt this is not mircea ... i saved the emails last year from when mircea donated for my thinkpad"
trinque: heya phf, did you ever take on that sbcl arm port (and which arm was it) ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, at some point you gotta do the "sorry for your lues"
trinque: phf: my google tentacles found that in foreign lands
trinque: I encounter asciilifeform, phf, or gabriel_laddel tracks semi-frequently :P
BingoBoingo: urls containing "drive.google.com/open?id=" now on qntra blacklist.
trinque: !!rate gabriel_laddel 1 mega-helpful clim-splainer
trinque: !!v DC2C216469620467DE71979B63F754FE244DB479EC7FA4349392136A74595FE9
deedbot: trinque rated gabriel_laddel 1 << mega-helpful clim-splainer
trinque: guy even sent me a detailed email in response to a query.
mircea_popescu: he's rather nice.
mircea_popescu: PeterL for the record, traditionally "not equal" is marked as != not /= because ! is the logical negation and also because / has other meanings ; while "less than or equal" is =< or <= or somesuch, not _<. why invent unexpected symbology ?
PeterL: yeah, that makes sense.
PeterL: could also use =/= ?
jurov: despite my orientation, i prefer <>
shinohai: jurovs's favorite tar.gz double-clicker from yesterday just asked me if he could just wget all his dependencies.
shinohai bangs head on desk
adlai: /= is a [common]-lispism
PeterL: what does it mean in lisp?
adlai: "The value of /= is true if no two numbers are the same in value; otherwise it is false." http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq_sle.htm
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551510 << neato PeterL -- did you do this with bare hands ?!
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 13:32 PeterL: !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/e51yx/?raw=true
PeterL: well, I copy/pasted out of pdf, then with bare hands had to fix just about every symbol (and for some reason it lost all the "a"s)
asciilifeform: sounds like titanic labour
PeterL: took ~hour or so
asciilifeform: and i cannot help but wonder, did PeterL end up grokking the paper in the process of massaging it
PeterL: but it also gave a chance to thouroughly read paper
PeterL: I grok it much more now than before task
asciilifeform: the parallels with medieval copyists invite themselves...
shinohai is disappointed PeterL didn't use vellum
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/10/colombian-electorate-votes-to-continue-war-against-farc/ << Qntra - Colombian Electorate Votes To Continue War Against FARC
PeterL: deedbot does not eat vellum
BingoBoingo: <PeterL> deedbot does not eat vellum << He might if you ask trinque to feed it to him
PeterL: that was essentially my task, getting deedbot to eat paper
jurov force feeds deedbot clay tables
phf: trinque: i added your sig to btcbase
asciilifeform: it is a curiously-inverted but still quite medieval situation, today we rescue ~paper~ by turning it into ascii.
asciilifeform: i suspect that when mircea_popescu wakes up he will at least feel temptation to write up a 'modern school of comp sci' thing where 'you must find a paper and asciify it...' etc
asciilifeform: (at least this is what my emulated mircea_popescutron is currently running with)
PeterL: as far as mathematical/scientific papers go, asciiifying this one was not too bad.
asciilifeform: PeterL: aha, the pieces from the age of the typewriter are, interestingly, easier.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for some odd reason i cannot picture lafond in my mind as anything other than the character in the pathetic film 'the wrestler'.
BingoBoingo has not seen
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551486 << was it interlisp or maclisp that let you close multiple parenthesis with a single final one, like (do ((foo 1) (bar 2)) (blah (foo) == (do ((foo 1) (bar 2)) (blah (foo)))
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 03:18 asciilifeform: {a {b (1 2} (c d (e f} эквивалентно (a (b (1 2)) (c d (e f)))
asciilifeform: phf: interlisp
asciilifeform: and it is a braindamaged idea
asciilifeform: and perhaps one of the few things ~not~ worth taking from it, imho.
asciilifeform: i dare say it removes most of the fucking point of using sexprs in the first place
asciilifeform: (to explicit the ast)
phf: i was looking at some mit cadr source and they do some totally insane stuff with parenthesis closing/opening
phf: i think it was a thing in vogue at some point, back when fexprs were still in the back of everyones minds
asciilifeform: to be fair, they did not have some of the things we have
asciilifeform: e.g., colour terminal, where you can colourize parens
asciilifeform: or boxes fast enough to reindent 1000-line+ blocks every time the carriage return is hit
asciilifeform: phf: i don't see how this is needed for fexprs
phf: true, or the fact that simple half a second "match opening paren" is pain, when you're typing )))) in a row
asciilifeform: now i COULD see mapping a key on kbd to 'shit out enough ) to balance'
asciilifeform: but to place it in the code, destroys the homoiconicity.
phf: asciilifeform: well, in a sense that it wasn't immediately obvious that read-delimited-list is a fundamental concept
phf: for how cavalier cadr is with parenthesis, all of that is gone by the time of genera
asciilifeform: phf: this is largely because they introduced proper editing
asciilifeform: and also because genera was a product of adults, rather than children, it is a sin specifically of the latter to obsess over very dubious 'optimizations' like 'super-paren {}'
phf: in before clojure and special [] :>
asciilifeform: that was one of the off-putting things, actually, re the clojure people, why did they have to clobber every key on the keyboard
phf: and then not give you readtable!
asciilifeform: i like having the [], {}, etc. available for readtableisms.
asciilifeform: sometimes a localized bit of custom notation is the only reasonably-compact abstraction.
asciilifeform: (in linked example, we get a transformation of commonlisp into a language with entirely different syntax and evaluation rules, 'while you wait!111')
asciilifeform: phf: interlisp had a graphical 'structure editor', i have never used it, and now i wonder if the {} thing was slightly less braindamaged given the context of having it.
phf: fwiw they had a graphical editor going back to mit cadr, and it flashes and highlights
asciilifeform: but does it reindent ?
phf: hmm, fair question, but i don't remember, i can't remember if tab even indents to the right place, i'll check in a bit
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551544 << sbcl already has an arm port, courtesy of nyef. i am doing the same work for cmucl, but i'm very far from actually getting there. i'm going by armv7 with vfpv3-d16, mostly because that's what ccl does and their code is imho most readable
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 14:29 trinque: heya phf, did you ever take on that sbcl arm port (and which arm was it) ?
phf: needless to say, i have no idea what i'm doing(r)(c)
trinque: was particularly curious about armhf threads, which sbcl lacks
trinque: arm64 has 'em
trinque: clozure cl seems to work for what I need
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/10/dam-panic-spreads-among-environmentalists/ << Qntra - Dam Panic Spreads Among "Environmentalists"
trinque: I have no idea whether ccl is a good idea (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: for n00bz and perhaps also for mircea_popescu , i will add the note here, that lisp folk don't generally ~read~ the parens, they read the indentation. this requires proper tools, such that the possibility of encountering misindented crapola is ~= 0.
trinque: they are there as blessings!
PeterL: why not just use python? indentation enforced!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> the parallels with medieval copyists invite themselves... << it's called scholarship, hater.
asciilifeform: who said i did not like.
asciilifeform: 'medieval' in my mind is not an insult.
asciilifeform: think 'old version.' if there existed a medieval gcc, i'd at least consider it.
mircea_popescu: alrigh alright, you're not a hater, you're just a strange lover.
mod6: heheh
shinohai: I consider asciilifeform the republican authority on impalement methods
phf: heyo
asciilifeform: shinohai: nah, that'd be mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: (who is actually king vlad himself, posting via a time wormhole)
shinohai: So that's what that stick he is carrying in the new trilema banner is for.
mircea_popescu: it may be illustrative to point out at this juncture that well over half of player time in eulora is spent with the character superimposed on a very pike like thing.
mircea_popescu: (because mining)
mircea_popescu: oh yeah, anyone figured what that thing in my hand is ?
shinohai: I can't make it out, looked very close to a dried bovine penis for all I can tell.
mircea_popescu: it's actually a very fine machete. hecho en colombia.
shinohai: oooh nice
mircea_popescu: 180 pesos. ~15 bux.
asciilifeform: looked like umbrella when i saw
asciilifeform: quite ambiguous pic.
mircea_popescu: quite useful device, also. wrap it in newspaper, crack anyone's skull open.
asciilifeform: 'In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed.'
asciilifeform: (colonel 'mad jack' churchill)
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> it's actually a very fine machete. hecho en colombia. << Very cool.
mircea_popescu: i suppose a machete esp in the rula style as seen there is a very credible cavalry sword.
mircea_popescu: (the word itself comes from "manliness" if anyone's curious)
mircea_popescu: anyway. only way to open coconuts.
mircea_popescu: this is the first time i hear c had an identity.
mircea_popescu: i thought it was like the romanian language, a subjective superset of all languages.
asciilifeform: you'd be surprised, there are folks who are convinced that they've been 'programming in c' for 30+ yrs.
mircea_popescu: as opposed you c++ you mean ?
asciilifeform: as opposed to 'in unix' or 'in winblows'
asciilifeform: at least the cpp folk are - typically - aware that their retarded horror has broad swath of vendor-specific behaviours and miscellaneous strange.
asciilifeform incidentally currently cpp's for money, and has much that could be said on the subj, but naggum already said it
mircea_popescu: one node higher from that : i was unaware anyone involved actually had the subjective mechanism of indentity. it works like this "don't do that, only gypsies do that, we're not gypsies". that's identity. whereas who in c ever said anything of the kind ?
mircea_popescu: the ~only thing they produce is "oh yeah, those other people do that other thing ? SO DO WE!"
mircea_popescu: this is not identity but the opposite thereof.
asciilifeform is out of telepathic-psychoanalytic pills, is ill-equipped to answer the q of what 'c programmer's concept of identity' may be.
mircea_popescu: you ever saw a "this should not be in c because it's stupid" in the past 30 or so years ?
mircea_popescu: all the various "c-with-serials-filed-off-because-i-wanna-john-smith-all-over-the-place" inherit this bizarre property.
phf: that second link looks like alternative take on cdrcoding, but since the first post started with "i read on twitter from discussion on hacker news"..
mircea_popescu: no you don't understand, "Software, lingüística, mitologia nórdica e rock'n'roll". a true renaiswitter man.
asciilifeform: the issue in subj link is quite real though.
asciilifeform: even if the peanut gallery has shat all over it.
asciilifeform: e.g., 'Pointer arithmetic. In the good old times, an int and a pointer used to have the same size. People happily used ints as array indices. Array indexing is just pointer arithmetic, and in some architectures (like x86), you can often perform the pointer arithmetic plus load in a single instruction. Then came 64-bit architectures. For reasons I don't really get (compatibility?), on x86-64 and other 64-bit architectures ints remaine
asciilifeform: d 32-bit even though pointers became 64-bit. The problem now is that transformations that assumed integers and pointers to be the same size don't work anymore, because now their point of overflow is different.'
mircea_popescu: i dunno man. "This looks (to me) as good C code as it gets. However, this code triggers undefined behavior: after the first iteration of the loop frees the node pointed to by head, it is undefined behavior to perform the tmp != head comparison, even though head is not dereferenced." << if this looks like good c to him he would have flunked my higschool class.
mircea_popescu: because YOU MAKE A COPY and compare with it.
asciilifeform: aaaaaahahaha
mircea_popescu: absolute minimum defensive coding for unix ; taught as such decades ago in fucking romanian.
asciilifeform: 'make a copy' and put it WHERE ??
mircea_popescu: in your spare pocket.
mircea_popescu: "may not use the datastructs you are dereferencing in any control code involving the dereferencing. F."
asciilifeform: from comments, '...there are many processor features that are not directly available in C even though they are available in a wide variety of processors (the overflow flag is a prime example). A similar situation that comes to my mind now is that 32bit*32bit multiplication results in a 32-bit integer in C even though most processors yield a 64-bit result...'
asciilifeform: ^ this is a personal hatred of asciilifeform's, when dealing with bignumatrons
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do 64 bit platforms even bother with 32 bit ints ffs.
mircea_popescu: i spent 100s of engineer-hours fixing the idiocy of "int" not being 64 bit ; it's a disaster for human productivity directly comparable to the black death.
mircea_popescu: worst fucking idea ever and who the fuck came up with it.
asciilifeform: well let's say that we redefined int as 64b. then the headache would simply be 'why does c not give us the 128-bit mul result that pentium happily disgorges when we mul rax, rbx'
asciilifeform: (which are 64bits)
mircea_popescu: i suppose these are unrelated complaints.
asciilifeform: c is fundamentally braindamaged in 1,001 ways, even in light of its nominal purpose as 'fancy macroassembler'
asciilifeform: the arch it ~was~ 'fancy macroasm' for no longer exists
asciilifeform: and has not existed since... 1982 or so.
asciilifeform: i will give example here, to nail in the point:
asciilifeform: let's say i'd like to add two 128-bit ints together.
asciilifeform: say [edi] points to one
asciilifeform: 64-bit, rather
asciilifeform: add dword [edi], 0xAABBCCDD
asciilifeform: adc dword [edi+4], 0x1234567
asciilifeform: adc dword [edi+8], 0
asciilifeform: ( we are on a 32-bit box in this example ) and we add 0x12345678AABBCCDD , a 64-bit int, to another 64-bit int, to get a 128-bit result.
asciilifeform: because we have this great thing called 'adc', add-with-carry.
mircea_popescu: i'd say we are adding two ints to two consecutive memory maps, but w/e.
asciilifeform: we also have things like shift-with-carry,
asciilifeform: shl dword [num], 1
asciilifeform: rcl dword [num+4], 1
asciilifeform: rcl dword [num+8], 1
asciilifeform: jc overflow
mircea_popescu: and if your first add overflows then what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's what add-with-carry is for
asciilifeform: it adds the overflow bit (which can physically be 1 or 0, think about it) to the next add.
mircea_popescu: is something supposed to be processed backwards here or what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu want me to work it out pedantically ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> add dword [edi], 0xAABBCCDD << say edi = 0xAABBCCDD. the contents of edi+4 after this will be 0.
asciilifeform: the contents of edi+4 is unaffected by the first instruction, mircea_popescu .
mircea_popescu: so what happens if the first instruction overflows ?
mircea_popescu: add dword 0xAABBCCDD, 0xAABBCCDD = 557799BA
asciilifeform: you get a carry bit set to 1, and [edi] is 0x557799ba .
asciilifeform: try it yourself.
mircea_popescu: oh and then adc pops the carry bit ?
mircea_popescu: myeah ; color me satisfied. i thought you have to use adc to pop it and push it both.
asciilifeform: nono, this is quite elementary.
asciilifeform: and works similarly on all cpu.
asciilifeform: (all cpu you might ever encounter, at any rate.)
mircea_popescu: myeah. except the one in my head ; cuz if i had made cpus then add dword 0xAABBCCDD, 0xAABBCCDD = 557799BA and adc dword 0xAABBCCDD, 0xAABBCCDD = 557799BA + set carry bit. but then again i dun make them.
asciilifeform: so to continue the tale, NONE of these ops (add-with-carry, shift-with-carry, etc) map to any conceivable c code !
asciilifeform: (the reverse is not true, of course)
mircea_popescu: none of these map to any code other than asm ; chiefly because fixed memory like this is not even used anymore.
asciilifeform: it is used in every box you can presently buy. pretenses to the contrary.
asciilifeform: 'fixed memory' is what you get when you buy ram. no other kind is sold.
mircea_popescu: ok. chiefly because the fashion in kink high this season is to pretend that fixed memory like this is not even used anymore.
asciilifeform: fashion aha.
asciilifeform: but underneath the emperor's robe, there is same bare arse as everyone else has.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the solution everyone uses is to declare a special class made of arbitrary length bitfields and define procedures on it such as these.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure that's what gfx people do, for instance, some of the fellows that first encountered 128 bit, 256bit and so forth overflowing ints.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu knows very well what they do
asciilifeform: massive bags of hand-asm inline.
asciilifeform: (and plenty of 'special' cpu instrs, which operate on large fixnums, e.g., 128-bit xmm regs)
asciilifeform: all of this retardation is because c semantics are very much inhospitable to working on variably-sized, non-register-sized operands
asciilifeform: among other caltrops.
asciilifeform: as for the 'kink high' aspect, the rubes are approaching the retardation in much the same way medieval folk approached the plague
asciilifeform: hygiene-via-parfumery.
mircea_popescu: hey, it's what built the united states
asciilifeform: does it still stink? NEED MOAR SPRAY
mircea_popescu: (a demand for tobacco powered by europe's elite aiming to protect itself from diseases through smoke permitted richmond to be a thing.)
mircea_popescu: otherwise, florida had 500 people in 1770.
asciilifeform: point earlier was, the 'c is THE close-to-the-metal language' is a half-truth
mircea_popescu: no argument there
BingoBoingo: Best untruth moar leik.
mircea_popescu: the only valid statement of it is that "all other languages bootstrap in c". see recent discussion with phf.
mircea_popescu: so it's more of a fashion / kink high consensus thing than a real matter.
asciilifeform: to our grief, it is very very easy to write a (sad, inefficient, but working) c compiler.
asciilifeform: which is how the disease perpetuates itself.
mircea_popescu: hey, you just wrote a c complier for addition above! :D
asciilifeform: well no, that was 'compiler' for sane-people addition
asciilifeform: (where the operands can be of any size you like)
asciilifeform: quite unlike c.
mircea_popescu: no dude. the reason the disease perpetuates itself is the functionally illiterate product of the stunted intellectual life in the colonies ; whereby there's this outpour of idiots who imagine "what i can do" is an acceptable limit of "what i shall do". so they'll be writing things in c "because that's what i know".
mircea_popescu: as if that's the fucking criteria, what you know.
mircea_popescu: "i will now make apple pie out of turnips, because here in new york all we have is turnips. mmmmm delicious apple pie, new-york style. the angel morni told me so!"
asciilifeform: well if all you got is turnip.
asciilifeform: then menu is a) turnip b) dirt.
mircea_popescu: if all you got is turnip beat the women to death.
asciilifeform: c ) get on a boat and MAYBE come back 20 yrs later.
asciilifeform: possibly also with only turnip.
asciilifeform: and syphilis
mircea_popescu: i'm not eating fucking turnip pie.
mircea_popescu: "but mp, we'll season it. with cilantro."
mircea_popescu: how is it that the republic can do just fine progressing at the clip of its own progress, no faster than that, nor slower ; and that while we don't specifically wnat to "do things" or set goals, nevertheless we do things and achieve (other people's) goals ?
mircea_popescu: there's a fucking right way to do things, and this arbitrary "i shall now be a becoming actress" ain't it.
asciilifeform: thing is, 'right way to do things' is not in practice available to engineer, who always and ~without exception labours inside a cage made of his predecessors' retardation.
asciilifeform: now ~how much retardation to create himself~ is often within his control, and sometimes he can manage a 0
asciilifeform: but in all cases the idiocy is cumulative.
asciilifeform: now also, the effect of 'babelization' is instructively pertinent.
asciilifeform: as per the immediately previous thread, some operations are actually SIMPLER, conceptually, to express in x86 asm than in c !
asciilifeform: e.g., anything pertaining to bignums - as hopefully is abundantly clear from the example.
asciilifeform: but C remains popular not merely because 'c compiler is the first thing to be ported to any new iron' but also because it is 'lowest common denominator.'
asciilifeform: so, if we said 'this here x86-64 asm is canonical bignumatron', it will be quite useless to phf with his armhf box, or whatnot.
asciilifeform: (or on pogo. or,or.)
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551637 << we're going to end up with frozen gcc, lynx, sbcl at this rate
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 15:33 asciilifeform: think 'old version.' if there existed a medieval gcc, i'd at least consider it.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc we already had frozen gcc
asciilifeform: as of rotor.
asciilifeform: for so long as you are still using traditional trb, you are stuck with some variant of this.
asciilifeform: otherwise one day you discover 'surprise', gcc6 or whatever won't build trb, or worse, builds-with-boojum
asciilifeform: (some new, or removed, 'optimization' that gives exploitable overflow in this or that.)
ben_vulpes: "you're not a c programmer, you're a gcc programmer"
asciilifeform: nobody is a c programmer.
asciilifeform: or ever was.
asciilifeform: there are gcc programmers, gcc-and-microshit programmers, etc.
asciilifeform: nintendo and supernintendo, etc.
asciilifeform: even gcc-to-bare-mips is quite different animal from gcc-to-x86-linux
asciilifeform: arguably more different than nintendo vs x86.
asciilifeform: there does not exist such a thing as 'a c program', even the schoolbook 'hello world' relies on a megatonne of os crapola simply to load and produce human-readable out.
trinque: $s is lisp dying
trinque: !#s is lisp dying
asciilifeform: 'it's appropriate to make a machine print "hello world" to verify that everything works after all the mind-boggling nonsense has interfered with the real purpose of a computer, and you never know which part of booting up will fail due to a minor bug. the delight in a C programmer's eyes when his machine thus booted typed "hello world" back at him would probably parallel that of a Common Lisp programmer when the satellite communicati
asciilifeform: ons subsystem he designed beams back "hello world" after an almost-aborted launch, a navigation jet which misfired, and the solar panels sustained some damage by space debris. normally, it's unnecessary to have confirmations of basic operations, but it makes perfect sense under C.'
trinque: aha
asciilifeform: (whole thing worth reading.)
trinque: knew it was already in l0gz
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#340 << yes. as we speak diana_coman is busy at work making snapsnots of linuxen. because it's obvious from practice that the way this goes is "i can't install eulora on linux" "we tested this" "but i can't". then upon extensive and expensive research it turns out... THEY CHANGED THE FUCKING DISTRO. breaking software. because why not.
scriba: Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
scriba: Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
mircea_popescu: so we'll just have people run historical snapshots and that's that.
mircea_popescu: this, of course, means no fixes.
ben_vulpes: "year of the linux desktop!"
mircea_popescu: yawell. it dun work.
shinohai curses Debian for whatever crapolade is in newest release
ben_vulpes: this gulf between computers as toys and computers as devices to be used by people who can patch, understand what the machine is doing stretches wider every day.
ben_vulpes: not that i'm claiming to understand what the machine is doing.
mircea_popescu: at least observably wider.
mircea_popescu: if anyone is inclined to maintain forks of any linux distro (much in the manner of trb - to clean, not to "support"/utf/systemd/etc) we can prolly work something out.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we already do ~this with buildroot.
asciilifeform: (if you add a kernel and busybox to mod6's config, you get a linux.)
asciilifeform: ( what ELSE do you really need, on top of kernel+shell+gcc, to count as 'a linux' ? 'xpenguins' ?! )
shinohai: Well I certainly learned the merits of preserving an older gcc this weekend
trinque: Framedragger: I can help you fix that python error; ping me when available.
PeterL: so I am working on porting the parachute scripts to python, does this look better as multiple or single line? http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/z1jyt/?raw=true
asciilifeform: the former.
trinque: even when using generator exprs could at least hit enter once in a while :p
PeterL: I guess there is something to be said for not doing everything at once, makes it easier to understand
asciilifeform: PeterL: aha.
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1862 << Loper OS - Still Tenser, Said the Censor.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551829 << i run into 1,001 instances of this whenever trying to build nearly ANYTHING i-didn't-write-myself from source.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 18:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#340 << yes. as we speak diana_coman is busy at work making snapsnots of linuxen. because it's obvious from practice that the way this goes is "i can't install eulora on linux" "we tested this" "but i can't". then upon extensive and expensive research it turns out... THEY CHANGED THE FUCKING DISTRO. breaking software. because why not.
scriba: Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
scriba: Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
asciilifeform: Framedragger ^ ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
mircea_popescu: genuine, i;m sure.
asciilifeform: source is mcafee.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i need an interpretation guide for your last post. what am i seeing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pg & co. are kind enough to mark '[FLAGGED]' when they hand-delete one's post on their thing (visible only to the user)
mircea_popescu: seems it's all qntra huh.
mircea_popescu: i suppose not enough faux "women in tech" to satisfy teh libtards.
asciilifeform: gawker - a-ok; qntra - verboten.
asciilifeform: esp if subject concerns diddled keys.
mircea_popescu: shall be their undoing.
mircea_popescu: there are some drugs you don't win the war on.
mircea_popescu: vaguely related, it turns out that the per capita price for polish children cca 1942 was 25 zloty.
asciilifeform: before or after boiled for soap ?
mircea_popescu: fully functional.
mircea_popescu: maybe slightly used.
asciilifeform: and what was that, anyway, in white man's money..?
mircea_popescu: bout a dollar.
asciilifeform: (does it even make sense to ask exchange rate of zloty in '42? currency of defunct crown)
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the demolished man is an excellent piece, inasmuch as it's pretty much an exact description of both the ideal as well as the practical implementation of "modern democracy, civilised & globalized" as teh bureaucrats perceive it.
asciilifeform: noshit.
mircea_popescu: it's literally what hillary clinton thought she was doing with her derpy email server. and still thinks this.
mircea_popescu: "protecting esper l3 comms from terrorists who don't understand how demolished world works."
asciilifeform: konsensoos reality is one hell of a drug.
mircea_popescu: (note that the ~only punishment described is... having to leave "the country". as if not smelling the fucking farts of ustards is the worst fate.)
asciilifeform: the toilet chick from mircea_popescu's photo earlier -- has substantial edge over these folks. she at least ~knows~ that she is hooked on dope.
mircea_popescu: this is altogether dubious, from experience.
mircea_popescu: much like hillary, she thinks it merely enhances her life and she could quit at any time, if the balance turned -ev
asciilifeform: dunno that 'rock bottom' folks still have the 'can quit anytime!111' notion
mircea_popescu: womne almost never hit rock bottom. this is almost entirely a male phenomenon.
asciilifeform: (but not living in their company, i have deeply nfi.)
mircea_popescu: women generally just die.
asciilifeform: eh if dope folk 'just died', we'd see many fewer of'em
asciilifeform: but death, generally, takes work.
mircea_popescu: there's some biological factors to account for this, both directly (shittier metabolism ; stronger response to neurotransmitters ; the venereal 50/5 trap etc) and indirect (through the workings of sexuate reproduction women are always vandable) ; but i'm pretty sure there's also psychological factors involved.
asciilifeform: vandable?
mircea_popescu: specifically, that male self-hate tends to reject the world (which is what "i hit rock bottom" always is - it is insanity to imagine the addict understands the world in your terms, and "Has seen reason" ; no such thing, he just activated a peculiar, and reasonably well understood, psychological process. no rationality involved) whereas in females tends to reject the self.
mircea_popescu: vandable, which can be sold.
asciilifeform: ah vendable
mircea_popescu: apparently it's actually vendible.
asciilifeform: doesn't their lim($marketvalue - $costofdopehabit) ---> -inf as t--->+inf though ?
mircea_popescu: addiction limits that t very narrowly closer to inf. if you get her started in college she'll die before her tits sag if we're talking eg meth.
mircea_popescu: and the beauty is, the only true boundry on the $costofdopehabit is the ceiling on t.
mircea_popescu: if you're willing to die tomorrow you can have five pounds of your choice of dusts, seeing how yo ugo rob a bank.
asciilifeform: quite conceivably dope is a beneficial thing, by this light, if it helps folks who are candidates for BingoBoingo's 'scooty' photos to die (relatively) cheaply, and quickly, rather than slowly and expensively decades later
mircea_popescu: surely. dope is still the best way to open up china for "trade" ; as it is the best way to get that snotty chick with "plans for the future" open for... hm. "partying".
asciilifeform: one of the interesting recurring motifs in dalrymple (british dude who worked for decades as prison doctor) re addicts is that they are not 'could be just anybody'
asciilifeform: most folks off the street, if given whatever dope you like, will not - apparently - take to it.
mircea_popescu: he mostly studied men. there's a marked difference between the genders.
mircea_popescu: but yes, humanity being what it is - this isn't a complete solution. given a large enough population, you'll find individuals capable to survive anything ; hiv even has innate immunity believe it or noit.
asciilifeform: (consider, perhaps most adults in industrialized countries - and elsewhere - have at one point taken an opiate, but how many became morphinists ? )
mircea_popescu: we are discussing very unlikely situations here. back when i was a kid, codeine as a phosophorous salt was the child cough remedy ; i took plenty ; so did other kids. did ~nothing.
asciilifeform: aha, same
mircea_popescu: it was safe mostly \because lacking the social context.
asciilifeform: so - hypothesis is that you need the 'opium den' >
mircea_popescu: well, opium adiction is very slow. you need to actually get addicted.
mircea_popescu: as that pacino character aptly points out, "i'm chippin'"
mircea_popescu: think of starting a wood fire. "many trunks in the forest, including mine and friends' i saw, had zippo lighter approached to trunk - nothing happened"
mircea_popescu: sure darling. suppose you're a) dry enough and b) in a furnace, ok ?
PeterL: what is the difference between a zippo and a hippo? One is very heavy and the other is a little lighter!
asciilifeform: or napalmed, lol
mircea_popescu: PeterL has this decided "kids interests" streak in him. he knows all the shit 12yos are liable to find cool.
PeterL: well, I hang around with a 10 yo girl a lot, sometimes it rubs off
mircea_popescu: did you ask her the sphinx's challenge ?
PeterL: I think she knows that one already
mircea_popescu: so girl bought "brazilian grapes". they're indescribably aptly named. colored this luscious black, like a brazilian chick's tone ; big, and round, and tough and sweet.
ben_vulpes: !~later tell pete_dushenski 'no ceilings' isn't a /bad/ mixtape, on review
jhvh1: ben_vulpes: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: http://archive.is/JrAnI <<< so like colored coins, but better?
mircea_popescu: !#s sergio demina lerner
a111: 0 results for "sergio demina lerner", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sergio%20demina%20lerner
mircea_popescu: this is odd.
mircea_popescu: anyway ; like colored coins except with a different dood pretending to authorship.
shinohai: "We propose a soft-fork that defines a new opcode (redefining a NOP opcode) as the OP_COUNT_ACKS using the segwit script versioning system"
mircea_popescu: but w/e, after the total rout of the gavin forks in 2015 and the political rather than technological defeat of the summer of forks earlier last year the remaining hole - which is also not going to get plugged - is exactly in this vein (segwit is no different), where all comers are more than welcome to define magic versions, script meanings and paralel chains ; which everyone else is more than welcome to ignore.
mircea_popescu: this both satisfies the desire of github rats to feel connected to bitcoin even though they aren't ; as well as bitcoin's necessity to be rid of the "talented" young minds.
mircea_popescu: so it's stable, and can continue indefinitely. they have not the power to change the situation at any rate.
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551832 << Good luck. Just in few years, newest videocard will cease to be supported in your medieval kernel or xorg version...
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 18:23 mircea_popescu: so we'll just have people run historical snapshots and that's that.
asciilifeform: jurov: this is 'the iron problem' and we discussed it, what, 20+ times.
asciilifeform: it has exactly 1 long-term solution - to make own hardware.
asciilifeform: yes, from mineral.
jurov: Is mircea going to do this for eulora? I missed it.
asciilifeform: it also has a broad spectrum of short-term half-solutions (use minimal subset of the iron's functionality; stockpile old amd; etc)
asciilifeform: jurov: i wouldn't put it past him to sell a 'game console' for it at some point
asciilifeform: but i have nfi, i am not the one to ask!
jurov: You see, I was asked to operate eulora vendor channels, and just gave up exactly bacause of this. It needs team of monkeys to keep up.
mircea_popescu: jurov hey, this isn't from a good life.
adlai: holy logs.
mircea_popescu: but from what i see, ~nobody has "newest" video card.
mircea_popescu: moreover "new" video cards make about as much sense as "14nm cpu".
trinque: now that is the stuff of sci-fi dreams. republican game console brings political and computing salvation to teh youth.
asciilifeform: actually ~everybody who walks into a shop and buys a lappy gets a newest minus a year or two video card.
mircea_popescu: the moore is dead. it's just as dead here as it was when i killed gavin with it. dead is dead, and objective reality means universal properties.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it being dead has not discouraged chip vendors from shuffling the cards every year.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except anyone who walks into a shop to buy a lappy walks out with ipad anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what are your players playing on ? i personally have very little idea, except that i notice that you support winblows and ergo some substantial number of them are lusers. and may well be 'walking into shop, buy lappy'
mircea_popescu: shocking vastity of 32bit systems, for one thing.
mircea_popescu: and my 2004 vintage card is not even the oldest ; not by a long shot.
asciilifeform: this is artifact of the turd world being ~decade behind the planned-obsolescence curve.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551646 << actually my first association was "type softly and swing a big stick"
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 15:36 shinohai: So that's what that stick he is carrying in the new trilema banner is for.
asciilifeform: point being that next year, their cards will eventually be whatever was common in usa in '07, roughly. and the next - '08. etc
jurov: Oh, windows is completely other can of nastiness. You can count on directx being kinda stable, but the incessant updates are prone to break anything else.
mircea_popescu: actually i'm currently chasing a major performance degrading bug which seems to be related to directx version > 8.
asciilifeform: every-six-months-incompatible-chip had ~0 to do with moore's law before, and has 0 now.
asciilifeform: it is done SPECIFICALLY to keep US out.
mircea_popescu: and by "major performance degrading" i mean that same machine, same os, same code runs at 150 fps with pre and ad 1.5 fps with post. no otehr symptoms.
asciilifeform: (lusers who get auto-updated 'new kernel' etc do not notice the new chip. which often is sold with the same laser markings, even, as the old, not even speaking of the actual model number)
mircea_popescu: anyway ; a large portion of these problems (there's also a threading fuckup or two, and other things) have to do with the miserable quality of the legacy codebase (like http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-september-2016-statement/#selection-931.0-931.47 miserable).
mircea_popescu: i expect as we clean that up i'll be in a better position to make sense.
asciilifeform: i was addressing jurov's more general http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551943
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 20:15 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551832 << Good luck. Just in few years, newest videocard will cease to be supported in your medieval kernel or xorg version...
mircea_popescu: to be honest, i do not think the current "open source" has five years left in it.
mircea_popescu: i suspect that by 2020, ~everything will cease to be supported
mircea_popescu: so it's kind-of a moot point anyway.
mircea_popescu: and again - not from a good life.
asciilifeform: gpu on linux ~never actually ~worked.
asciilifeform: with open, i mean, driver.
asciilifeform: one of the reasons i'm not playing eulora.
mircea_popescu: and it seems the high water was cca 2010, not improving.
asciilifeform: btw this is one of the potential uses for ice probe
asciilifeform: reversing winblowz drivers.
mircea_popescu: yeah but which card.
asciilifeform: card of the day.
mircea_popescu: myeah. that's the other thing - once the "r&d" pretense goes away, vidcards will definitely go the way of ram, as hdds went before it. ie, centralization, 1 place in asia where they're all made, all the same.
mircea_popescu: at which point making a proiper driver for the bn unit singleitem will make sense
asciilifeform: you either -- make your own cards, or reverse somebody else's, tertium non datur.
mircea_popescu: like it makes sense now to reverse z80
mircea_popescu: no point wasting effort with the current variety ; unless one's trying to learn.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551821 << after reading preceding thread (and i must say: machine code logs > all other logs), i now wonder if i'm not a lisp programmer, nor a cl programmer, nor even an sbcl or ccl programmer, but a "ql:quickload programmer"
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 17:26 a111: 12 results for "is lisp dying", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=is%20lisp%20dying
asciilifeform: adlai: from reading your published material, it would seem like this is so.
mircea_popescu: it's always cute when one discovers this.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551827 << correct me if i'm wrong, but does "logs" include http://www.xach.com/naggum/* ?
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 17:28 trinque: knew it was already in l0gz
adlai: sorry, 'l0gz'
adlai finds himself pining for that one server where s/foo/bar/ actually works
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this commoditization - it did not happen by magic.
mircea_popescu: invisible handmagic!
adlai: asciilifeform: unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible to 'tradebot' without this
adlai: even if you want to atomic-swap trb against etc, you're stuck shelling out, so you're at best "sbcl/ccl programmer"
adlai: (at worst - tinyscheme matchstick-and-glue-bridger)
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551909 << in this case, i'm gonna "blame the mice", or in other words -- and i can't find the exact 'logs' here, but it's iirc Leary -- "you can meditate for ten years and achieve nothing, but take a decimated milligram of lysergic acid dimethylamide, and something interesting is guaranteed to happen"
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 19:15 asciilifeform: most folks off the street, if given whatever dope you like, will not - apparently - take to it.
adlai: s/m//
trinque predicts adlai will evade but...
trinque: define acheive, and ... something.
adlai: does it count as evading if i explain my paraphrase rather than citing strunk and white?
trinque: I've done acid something like 10 times. Where was the something interesting?
adlai: ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HOW MANY TIMES have you meditated daily for ten years?
mircea_popescu: who the fuck meditates.
adlai: the gist of the paraphrase is that some chemicals have an effect on the human brain which is not reducible to "now you will be less inhibited"
trinque: !#s ordeal
trinque: !#s from:trinque ordeal
trinque: that's all it is, and woe upon you that your culture has none worthwhile to put you through.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543757 << old idf proverb: "what does not kill you, makes you stronger; what does, makes mom stronger"
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:15 trinque: ordeal is therapeutic; psychdelics maybe if they cause a beneficial ordeal
adlai: interestingl, hebrew has a single word for "does not kill you"
adlai: makes this proverb actually poetic, as opposed to my english translabutchering
mircea_popescu: and the word is something like "mis'r" ?
asciilifeform: adlai: thread was re 'addiction dopes'
asciilifeform: vs your favourite swizzle stick for mental blocks
adlai: mekhashel. means roughly, "makes you stronger, short of the irreducible strength attained by having your obituary written"
adlai has yet to find a chemical which truly makes him more productive, long term. so far they've all been 'addiction'
trinque: adlai: you still didn't define the fucking precise benefit
trinque: am I supposed to buy homeopathic cures from you on the same grounds?
adlai: by which count ( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-19#1327189 )... i'm not a person!
a111: Logged on 2015-11-19 16:19 mircea_popescu: specifically, that there are two kids of people : the addicts, who aren't people, and the actual people.
mircea_popescu: shell out bitch!
adlai: benefit of what, doing things you've never done before?
adlai: define "ordeal"
trinque: this borderline slut right here
mircea_popescu: ordeal is what your mom doesn't want to happen to you.
adlai: looks like i'm too fuck to drunk, i'll http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529463
a111: Logged on 2016-08-25 22:58 mircea_popescu: i think it is past your bedtime, yes. come back fresh tomorrow.
adlai: goodnight and shana tova to all the kikes reading along
ben_vulpes: shana tova
ben_vulpes: on a different topic am i crazy or are bitcoin /pubkeys/ serialized in the blockchain big-endianly and /ripmd160 pubkey hashes/ serialized little-endianly?
mircea_popescu: for all the respectable folk who like me do not even wish to entertain ben_vulpes ' crazy shit stick, here's http://66.media.tumblr.com/9d05f4cbccceb87877c4c1e8d693b456/tumblr_inline_n4vcjtU6Px1qjk6pl.gif
ben_vulpes: hah HAH
ben_vulpes: harumph.
mircea_popescu: "hey honey, is this deserialized yet ?"
trinque: henceforth working on trb was known throughout the land as "doughfucking"
ben_vulpes: yeah, fuck satoshis dough.
ben_vulpes: fudgepacker, not in the sexual sense but in the sense of going overboard packing shit too tightly where it didn't matter and not thinking rigorously about ~anything that did
trinque: lel
ben_vulpes: perhaps unfair, but i am irked.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see also the 'c thread' from earlier today, for more of same.
mircea_popescu: hey, to revisit the previous discussion,
mircea_popescu: ah yes, exactly. alf keeps stealing my ideas and then passing them off as his!
asciilifeform: (c programmer assumes that 'i am sitting on the metal' and ergo anything he is not seeing, is not in the picture)
ben_vulpes saw, refilled the backup wtf tank
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/03JXi << in other lulz. AAAANYTHING but using actual crypto!
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel: $$ later tell dina_corman gentoo distfile backups
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: if you make a new pgp key, i will rate you
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: noted.
gabriel_laddel: dina_corman: I don't have the disk space to download all of them, but if you could get all the funtoo stage3 tarballs too, would be great.
trinque: * diana_coman
diana_coman: will have a look gabriel_laddel
asciilifeform: 'We define algorithmic proxy custody as the automatic custody of cryptocurrency by a set of parties, where the release of cryptocurrency in custody is at least partially controlled by approval signals generated by programs run by these parties, and where programs base their approvals on the observation of a consensus for the release in another secondary blockchain, and the secondary blockchain has authoritative responsibility to comm
asciilifeform: and the release. Once the command is produced, it is fully authoritative and proxy custodians must obey.' << ahahahaha will this idiocy never die
a111: Logged on 2014-11-13 19:06 asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element
asciilifeform: the enemy is dull, but not so dull that he does not grasp the most hospitable place on the tank's armour to stick the mine onto. i.e. lock up as much coin as possible behind chastity belts of whatever possible kind.
asciilifeform: the second prong of this, as described in the leaked mit slides last year, is to declare unbelted coin 'terrorist' and simultaneously shitcoin it from use at coinbase, bitpay, etc.
asciilifeform: !#s permissioned
a111: 6 results for "permissioned", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=permissioned
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: aha. listened to 'no ceilings' maybe 6 months ago for the first time and was relatively unimpressed. on the other hand i just found an unlabeled cd in my car that turned out to be 'drought iii' and i'm currently quite enjoying the walk down memory lane.
ben_vulpes: opening is okay
ben_vulpes: good lines scattered about. otherwise, entirely meh.
pete_dushenski: cars, computers, and rap apparently all peaked between '07-'10
ben_vulpes: "how come every joint on point like a harpoon"
ben_vulpes: classic shit.
pete_dushenski is quite enjoying "jay"'s 4.6l all-aluminum v8 atm now that he's commuting more. a radar detector is now near the top of the shopping list (yes, they're legal here)
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: enjoy it while it lasts, here in mordor speed ticketing is ~100% camera-on-wheels
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: my early research indicates that premium radar detectors a la valentine1 detect 'camera-on-wheels' on k and ka bands
pete_dushenski: if perhaps with less warning than manned radar gun
ben_vulpes: lmk if you want to commission a laser jammer pete_dushenski
ben_vulpes: been thinking about 'em for a while now.
ben_vulpes: those little 30W modules asciilifeform found could take one out permamently.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552100 << sorry pete_dushenski , this is a physics-nope.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 22:33 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: my early research indicates that premium radar detectors a la valentine1 detect 'camera-on-wheels' on k and ka bands
asciilifeform: thing works by having 2 cameras, each with licenseplate ocr
asciilifeform: if you appear on camera b too soon after appearing in camera a, you get ticket.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: what do you need to get started on the commission ? time, money, both ?
ben_vulpes: it's be a pretty pricey project, i don't really expect anyone to fund it.
asciilifeform: (i will point out, it is not necessary for camera 'a' and 'b' to be sprouting from the same cabinet, though afaik they usually do)
ben_vulpes: part of the 'catalogue of hardware for asymmetric statal combat'
ben_vulpes: doubles as tire-popper!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: from my own experiments, and i hate to be the one to rain on the 'cheap blaster' parade - ir laser does not go far outdoors in the air. unless said air is peculiarly dry.
asciilifeform: (it is absorbed by water.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes however must not take my word for this, ought to set up a tube and camera etc.
asciilifeform: at the very least because mircea_popescu will only believe it if somebody other than asciilifeform says 'won't work'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: tire's emissivity implies decent conversion of non-ir wavelengths to heat, is this mistaken?
ben_vulpes: (s/tire/rubber)
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the linked item appears to feature a normal radar thing
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: conversion long before reaching target.
asciilifeform: makes for an impressive 'scifi' blaster beam though.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: this is exactly 'camera-on-wheels'
asciilifeform: (think, when you can see the beam, the light is not reaching the victim)
pete_dushenski: 'camera-on-pole' is a differnt beast, ofc.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: nope, your item is camera-cum-radargun-on-wheels
asciilifeform: which is obsolete.
asciilifeform: there is an imho interesting dynamic in speedtraps though, where the enforcement is never permitted to become ideal, or folks will simply drive very slowly and commerce grinds to a halt
asciilifeform: so they are given 'sporting chance'
asciilifeform: several years ago, a massive toll road opened where i live. if you go on it from one end to the other, you go through a dozen or so rfid arches.
asciilifeform: (there is no other way to pay the toll, and license plate cameras look for deadheads)
asciilifeform: so they could in THEORY bill 100% of the speeders
asciilifeform: i.e. folks who reach arch N too quickly after reaching arch 1.
asciilifeform: BUT they do not do this.
asciilifeform: instead, there are 6 police cars working in shifts, with TRADITIONAL radar...
asciilifeform: the 'sporting' aspect.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: in other "peak hip hop": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOzt_uPV-xA feat a young nikki and wayne sampling his own damn self
asciilifeform: (incidentally, this principle is applicable - fundamental theorem of calculus!111 - to all speed traps - police could simply observe that your license plate appeared on street S1 too soon after it was seen on street S0 ! BUT observe, this is done in no city anywhere.)
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes lol she even ~sounds~ like a (much) lil(er) girl
ben_vulpes: "fuck i look like? i'm lookin for a bitch that can fuck right, cook right. and if not, then left foot, right, get to steppin, yeah bitch walk like."
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: lol you're joking rite. no city ? anywhere ? try THE ENTIRETY of airstrip one. the whole thing. it's one big trap of 'time from a to b should be =<x or else ticket mailed to house'
ben_vulpes: if you're in a hurry, jump to 17:45
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: diggin it. not even a huge wu-tang fan either.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#607 << just in time for "nobody uses banks anymore anyway"
scriba: Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
scriba: Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#618 << it's diana not dina ; it's coman not corman and its !~ not $$. but otherwise totally lol.
scriba: Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
scriba: Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#624 << well not for as long as you keep linking it
scriba: Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
scriba: Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
mircea_popescu: oh for chrissakes.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551791 << no quarterly forecasts. no 'double-digit growth estimated'. and yet... there's growth aplenty. in spades.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 16:46 mircea_popescu: how is it that the republic can do just fine progressing at the clip of its own progress, no faster than that, nor slower ; and that while we don't specifically wnat to "do things" or set goals, nevertheless we do things and achieve (other people's) goals ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552088 << which will result in a swift going under of bitpay.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 22:22 asciilifeform: the second prong of this, as described in the leaked mit slides last year, is to declare unbelted coin 'terrorist' and simultaneously shitcoin it from use at coinbase, bitpay, etc.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552051 << shan-to-the-ah, tov-to-the-...-also-ah
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 20:54 ben_vulpes: shana tova
ben_vulpes: who all is even in l1 right now?
ben_vulpes does not feel like combing through deedbot's sexpr output at this moment
ben_vulpes: rerun!
mircea_popescu: jus' like wayne.
ben_vulpes cocks head, scratches chin
ben_vulpes: yeah, reading that pete_dushenski
trinque: !!ratings deedbot
trinque: ben_vulpes: ^
trinque: no combing necessary.
pete_dushenski: !#s from:mircea_popescu meditate
a111: 10 results for "from:mircea_popescu meditate", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea_popescu%20meditate
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 20:49 mircea_popescu: who the fuck meditates.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: plz to add ratings to bots.contravex
trinque checks his own docs
ben_vulpes: trinque: should i be looking somewhere besides http://deedbot.org/faq.html ?
trinque: isn't in mine; gimme a bit and I'll ping you, pete_dushenski.
ben_vulpes: ah no, help
ben_vulpes: trinque: didn't see that.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski fine!
pete_dushenski: trinque: kk
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol gotcha
trinque: isn't on there though, gimme sec ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: it's in the deedbot link on faq
ben_vulpes: hey can we kill dns yet?
trinque: you can kill dns any time
ben_vulpes: i'm fair loathe to make more entries in an informal, non-republican dht
pete_dushenski: bots directory updates with !!ratings
mircea_popescu: be specific ?
pete_dushenski: *updated
trinque: I didn't write docs for it yet
trinque: the damn horses, hold them.
pete_dushenski: sorry, nelly got away from me there
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 23:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#624 << well not for as long as you keep linking it
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 20:02 shinohai: http://archive.is/JrAnI <<< so like colored coins, but better?
scriba: Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
scriba: Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
pete_dushenski: bbl. !!ratings removed from directory until further notice from trinque.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552161 << isn't bpay powered by zombie tears already ?
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 23:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552088 << which will result in a swift going under of bitpay.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but atm still hopes of future.
shinohai: so is coinbase/gdax
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu asciilifeform BingoBoingo diana_coman hanbot trinque mod6 danielpbarron mike_c asciilifeform davout phf jurov http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/nd2t0/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: and in other recent lolz, a block just came through with 2 transactions in it including the coinbase
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all i see is your blog ?
ben_vulpes: if you hit the ip raw that's all you'll get
mircea_popescu: oh for chrissakes
asciilifeform: aha i did same thing
asciilifeform: imho this is lame
asciilifeform: (the access control mechanism, not the tool, the tool is spiffy)
ben_vulpes: moar subdomains?
mircea_popescu: there's better ways to handle passwords than to ask people to alias things
ben_vulpes: ain't a password.
mircea_popescu: think about it.
asciilifeform: i dun like turning the missile key unless there is good reason.
trinque: how otherwise to abandon using DNS?
mircea_popescu: ie, the ip sharing aspect of dns you mean ?
trinque: aha
mircea_popescu: i confess i never thought about that
mircea_popescu just buys whole ip blocks.
trinque: guess it could be "folders"
trinque: whole thing is broken until gossipd-year-0
mircea_popescu: i have plenty spare ; i guess in my head it's a thing in the vein of the megawatt standard.
ben_vulpes: i can get more ips, did not expect this caltrop
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah thinking about it i am not sure we actually wish to salvage that particular aspect altogether. do we ?
ben_vulpes bbl, bike
trinque: it's a second place for namespacing aside the URL, which ~is simply wwwcruft
trinque: atop gossipd I think the *entire* "this website" thing goes, replaced by "I would like the thing identified by hash ..., do my friends have it?"
trinque: the browser and "cache" is replaced by a proper database which stacks these items and creates a www locally. whether items were retained would be a matter of implementation (perhaps some measure of proximity to one's own wot, or the operator having given the item his V-tronic seal)
trinque: er, not www-locally, a web. :P
trinque: going over it again, it appears to reduce to gossiping vpatches and seals of a format which can reference vpatch hashes.
trinque: this handily solves the "I linked this motherfucking item in this state" not "well y'know, it used to be over here ..."
mircea_popescu: no, evidently it works fine in gossipd
mircea_popescu: the wonderment is how much of the crap to preserve on the way there and in which order
mircea_popescu: in other lulz,
mircea_popescu: "I am Mr. John Forbes Kerry, United States Secretary of State by profession. This is to inform you officially that after our investigations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and other Security Agencies in the Country for the year ended 2015, we discovered that you have not receive your fund."
mircea_popescu: ( Subject: U.S Department of State 2201 C Street NW Washington, DC 20520. Contact phone number (+709 701-4615) )
asciilifeform: mother africa cries!11111111
mircea_popescu: for a moment there i thought kerry was diagnosed with cancer and is leaving his diamonds to orphans or somesuch
trinque: pete_dushenski: http://deedbot.org/help.html << updated
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-latest-lolz-from-the-department-of-state/ << Trilema - The latest lolz from the Department of State
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551840 << here's a thought - mircea_popescu , didja ever consider having the game come on ~bootable dvd~ ?! 1980s this-floppy-is-game-and-its-os style.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 18:26 mircea_popescu: if anyone is inclined to maintain forks of any linux distro (much in the manner of trb - to clean, not to "support"/utf/systemd/etc) we can prolly work something out.
asciilifeform: you could use trb-rotor almost as-is, if you went to this.
asciilifeform: game in kernel!
shinohai: That's an interesting though .....
shinohai: *thought
asciilifeform: 'control vertical and horizontal' (tm)(r)
adlai: (s) pls
asciilifeform: also does the thing really ~need~ gnu, or would mesa on a fast cpu suffice
asciilifeform: (does mircea_popescu's circa-'04 gpu actually beat mesa-on-intel7 , say?)
asciilifeform: *need gpu
adlai: Real Software Needs FPGA(tm)(S)(r)
asciilifeform: adlai: sober yet?
adlai: lol fuckno
adlai: i wake up dronk!
asciilifeform: ffs adlai
adlai has tasks to accomplish, pls to not disturb -- https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/
adlai: or should i -- save the page again {KLIK} -- http://archive.is/wnKMH
adlai: ... that's a long-to-archive /stream!
asciilifeform: wallowing with the eagles, i see
adlai: the eagles saved sam and frodo (in that order -- who even even gave a shit about the ringbearer?)
adlai really owes some meatwot guy the spamatron, could use an excuse to build it
adlai: (ftr - guy paid me to write it, i didn't, sent back coin, he sent back 1/3 coin for the "research" i did thus far, and wants it completed someday)
asciilifeform: adlai: fyi kanzure is in my meat l1. he self-confessedly serves evil.
adlai knows that he works for 'ledger x'
adlai: s/ks/ked/
adlai should maybe write regexbot before spamatron! definitely a lower branch.
asciilifeform: i have nfi re the other whizzards.
adlai: well, the bsmprimeprimeprimeprimeprime guy has been publishing reasonably intelligent material for a while
adlai: he's trying to fix the latency issue. i'm not sure it can be fixed, but he's trying.
asciilifeform: sooo why ain't he here.
asciilifeform: if 'intelligent'
adlai: because i'm a better troll than publicistL
adlai: s/L/L/
adlai: s/L/?/ did i just prove my point
asciilifeform: *meat l2
adlai: aha!
adlai: there's a worldova difference between L1 and L2
adlai: for this reason, btw, i'm quite pissed that ben_vulpes deeds his shit at deedbot's L1
asciilifeform: i tend to count from 0 in my head,
asciilifeform: always.
adlai: i meat, wtf. has ben_vulpes even met, ie, ... pete_dushenski ?
asciilifeform: afaik nobody here has, yet
asciilifeform: other than himself
adlai: well i like his blog, it's spiffy!
asciilifeform: also ~what~ latency issue
adlai suddenly corrects himself -- pete_dushenski was not part of the highlight. whether he was a member of the can-encrypt set, is a matter too deep to reversee in /me's current state
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes.
asciilifeform: aaaah which yes ?
mircea_popescu: as well as making a text-only client to obviate the obnoxious gfx thing
mircea_popescu: but ... takes time
mircea_popescu: "bootable dvd"
adlai: well... i'm not certain that bsmblahblah can produce an algorithm which will be softforked by existing btcminers, and never revoked (ie, miners fired) by existing holders; but he's trying to give a more-quantifiable "confirmation" value
adlai: currently, the confirmation value has a resolution of ~minuties
adlai: minutes
asciilifeform: adlai: waiwat
adlai: hours, if you care about a binary value
adlai doesn't sell coin irl for less
asciilifeform: none of this makes sense, adlai
trinque: he's fucking drunk and rambling.
asciilifeform: conf is denominated in blocks
adlai: correct.
asciilifeform: so what minutes adlai ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: text client a la '80s mud ?
mircea_popescu: just about
asciilifeform: that would rock.
mircea_popescu: adlai i think you deeply misunderstand deedbot.
mircea_popescu: why am i reading this shit anyway. /me skips it.
adlai: AIUI (and that's capitalized for a reason -- he may disagree with me, as might any other educated reader of his papers and drafts) , there could be a system wherein clients publish blocks at some frequency, wherein some of the blocks are not valid "bitcoin-according-to-satoshi" blocks, but you still get a sense of how likely is the apparance of the next "bitcoin-as-in-satoshi" block
adlai: ask him!
asciilifeform: should this be a thing
asciilifeform: HE isn't here
adlai: /pm bsm117532 or whatever his nick is today :(
adlai is quite pissed that the man/child actually changed nicks to "prove a point"
asciilifeform: so i ask adlai . who saw it fit to convey this nonsense to us here
adlai: do i need to pretend to go to sleep again?
asciilifeform: pray tell adlai , why should this be a thing to consider
adlai: do i need to pretend to go to sleep again?
asciilifeform: nono, i'd like to know
asciilifeform: adlai: you could answer 'entomological', but i read the link, and it would seem like you see something in there as a worthwhile idea. and i would like to know what..
adlai: because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552277 -- and incidentally, i'm curious as fuck what exactly the WoT relationship between asciilifeform and kanzure is, since it sounds like maybe you know (irl!) somebody who knows him, or somesuch
a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 01:54 adlai really owes some meatwot guy the spamatron, could use an excuse to build it
asciilifeform: adlai: correct
adlai: what is correct? too many antecedents
asciilifeform: adlai: i went to uni with a meat friend of his.
adlai: define 'friend'
adlai: has 'friend'
adlai: has 'friend' signed his pgp fingerprint? the full shit, not the eight ascii chars
trinque finds this whole thing deeply irritating
mircea_popescu: yeah. adlai go to bed.
adlai: better yet, the entire key
adlai sighs
asciilifeform: adlai: i have nfi why you might care, but the fella vanished long ago. and was never enwotted.
adlai: which fella?
asciilifeform: dude who introduced me to kanzure originally.
adlai: so you met kanzure irl?
adlai has seen him on youtube, this is roughly the same?
adlai: meeting some shmuck irl means ~nothing
asciilifeform: nope. and wouldn't care to.
adlai: ok, so he's not in your "L2", he's in your "L-finite"
adlai: as opposed to L-planet
asciilifeform: i did say 'meat'.
adlai: so what?
adlai: you live in mordor, bro!
adlai: hitler is in your L-meat
asciilifeform: probably
adlai bbl, writing spamatron
asciilifeform: !!rated kanzure
deedbot: asciilifeform rated kanzure -1 at 2014/06/21 22:40:29 << minor-league quisling; inquire within
asciilifeform: ^ re subj.
mircea_popescu: !!rated kanzure
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated kanzure.
asciilifeform: kid was cursed, at very young age, with being 'esr rich'
asciilifeform: now the dough is running short
asciilifeform: so off he went, in search of cock to suck
asciilifeform: and found usg's welcoming zipper open
mircea_popescu: name's vaguely familiar
asciilifeform: he is omnipresent in the circle adlai linked to
asciilifeform: he is currently employed, or last i knew, providing 'mathematical' flavouring to 'power rangers' of various stripes.
adlai: sorry for reappearing so soon after "bbl", but - what does 'esr rich' mean? i struggled not-too-longago with a friend telling me "oh yes, that's shit that 'people with money' have in their house" (over random crap my idiot dad had), so... pray, what is "esr rich"?
asciilifeform: #!s esr
mircea_popescu: the reference is to eric raymond
adlai: "struggled" = wanted to yell at him, "you idiot, what do you mean by that, i'm just as poor as you" - but realizing that i'm less poor than him, but... still poor.
adlai: yeah i know who esr is
adlai: what is 'esr rich', though?
adlai has won no startup lottery
asciilifeform: #!s surprised by wealth
asciilifeform: !#s surprised by wealth
adlai decides to ignore kanzure thread, keep musing on spamatron
adlai: arguably - spamatron is the most important "bitcoin 2.0" app
asciilifeform: adlai: do not envy lottery winners. car wreck victims have better, as a rule, outcomes.
adlai: dude i've lived^H^H^Hread the trilema article on suacide
asciilifeform: still living it, it looks to me
adlai: and that's not a fucking typo, in case you don't know the joke -- "how did arafat die? suacide"
asciilifeform: get rid of the bottle, adlai .
adlai: b-b-but i just opened the second!
mircea_popescu: if you ever wondered what uppity tortilla'd have been like if born intelligent.
mircea_popescu: but in the end, it all comes down to arguably the most important etc.
adlai corks it, for now at least, and goes back to musing on spamatron
adlai: fwiw - and bottle is still corked! - mircea's link doesn't cover folks who can live off of fiat wot, however short a time that lasts... ie, /me mostly lives off charity from $whatever-wot, but doesn't have to sell his btc. does this make him evil?
adlai: this situation is remarkably identical to that of gabri^Idamnit
trinque: put another cork in whichever hole is leaking your internal monologue
adlai wonders why the _v_ in http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html when invoking v.pl
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551914 << Prodrug, requires metabolism to be activated. Much more gentle phamakinetic curve this way, low abuse potential.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 19:18 mircea_popescu: we are discussing very unlikely situations here. back when i was a kid, codeine as a phosophorous salt was the child cough remedy ; i took plenty ; so did other kids. did ~nothing.
deedbot: accepted: 1
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 22:39 asciilifeform: if you appear on camera b too soon after appearing in camera a, you get ticket.
mod6: adlai: what was your question?
adlai: mod6: the shit fails, i'm trying to figure out why, but meanwhile, it's deeded - whatever that's worth
mod6: what seems to be the problem?
adlai: Expected: 9c1e59cf1a30c33950cf5d6ffc202437bff08724cba0d4c07ed7390a6fa17bb5451a96ec2bde1b87b2b137bb0c908c32d985deea918d7b28767ed5db489de649
adlai: Actual: eed44c23a600b00eb70f3c7998d579c86bb62eb4018cd95934cdf56fdde70dc3500053e7816768605dcb5e3063505d0dbea6e4a604b02014eed210a112a38001
adlai: Pressed file hash did not match expected!
pete_dushenski: !!reputation
mod6: adlai: can you run `./v.pl f` and wotpaste it?
pete_dushenski: cool beans. http://bots.contravex.com updated, trinque.
trinque: sweet.
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