Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-06-11 | 2016-06-13 → ↓
deedbot: [Qntra] Suspected Islamist Shoots Up Florida Gay Bar - http://qntra.net/2016/06/suspected-islamist-shoots-up-florida-gay-bar/
mircea_popescu: in other news, "whosoever withdraws from stupidity thereby becomes its avant-garde."
shinohai: Fred Phelps laughs in hell.
thestringpuller: well his hot granddaughter is out fucking and having a good time now that her brainwashing is gone
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 50 deaths and 53 injuries << take a guess, 1 bloke with pea shooter, or squad of police with schmeissers on full auto
BingoBoingo: But yes. Not the question we deserve, but the one we need.
jurov: ;;later tell BingoBoingo yes i'll gladly help anyone to dispose of their shares ;)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mod6 ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: and people are actually buying into it
mircea_popescu: not substantially different from ethereum itselfd.
shinohai: Scammers love their scams.
Framedragger: vc: thanks for the cockbox! how are things?
Framedragger: by which i mean, any crazy customer support / admin stories thus far? :)
mod6: thanks BingoBoingo
mod6: Cool jurov, when they are distrbuted (month end?), just hit me up.
thestringpuller: usually its the week after the statement on trilema confirming share count
thestringpuller: so first/second week of july
jurov: mod6 Qntra shares? When did you receive any?
mod6: i haven't, yet. but i wrote an article. so i presume they will give me a few.
mod6: but i'd like to send the proceeds to The Bitcoin Foundation
mod6: so just take your coinbr fee and forward the rest to the btcf addy if that's ok?
jurov: sorry, i can't. they are meant to be used strictly for hookers and blow.
mod6: or, if you'd rather i signed a statement saying such, i can do that when they get distributed.
mod6: lol
mod6: i suppose that can be arranged.
mod6: anyway, thanks, we'll talk 'round month end then to get it figured out.
shinohai: Bad news is all the good blow vendors are on tor
vc: Framedragger: things have been great, users have been fine save for the billions of them that messed up their SSH key
jurov: yes, your shares are tied to your gpg fingerprint, so pls make a signed request to onetime/automatic delivery toi certain coinbr account
vc: I'm going to have to put like a tutorial on the checkout page
vc: I'm currently planning on getting 144GB memory and 6 more SSDs
vc: which will put my maximum slot count at 140
vc: and if the 140 slots fill up I will purchase the other 144GB memory which is the last possible upgrade for the server
mod6: jurov: what if one doens't have a coinbr account?
jurov: you can have them sent to mpex account, too
jurov: :D
mod6: ok. we'll work something out. no problemo.
jurov: or just say you want to donate them to foundation and we'll work it out
mod6: cool. thanks man.
Framedragger: vc: nice, man
Framedragger: hehe yeah, ssh keys, welcome to idiotland i guess
Framedragger: vc: just fyi, there appears to be a ~10k packets / second limit somewhere upstream, are you aware of anything of the kind? i'm just running some self-tests (using a program which has its own TCP stack, i.e. no use of kernel networking / sockets). same tests produce at least 10 times as much elsewhere. cpu not the bottleneck. just wondering what it could be
Framedragger: note, stricly-localhost test gives me much more than that. but test with bogus mac address (so it doesn't hit the actual internet) gives only 10k pps, which is real low. some hardware firewall doing excessive ratelimiting?
vc: Framedragger: I have definitely seen waaaaaaay over 10k packets / s on these interfaces so that's not the problem
vc: there is an outbound cap of 100Mbit/s on the interfaces
Framedragger: hmm. yeah self-test which doesn't leave localhost gives me ~ 3M pps or so
vc: what size of packets?
Framedragger: uh need to check. but it's just a TCP SYN!
Framedragger: 41 bytes i think
Framedragger: i mean it's clearly not bw cap
vc: are you doing tests right now?
Framedragger: vnstat gives me maybe 5 mbps total
Framedragger: vc: yeah just relaunched. vm031
asciilifeform: reddit, apparently, censoring all string matches of mr. jihad's name.
Framedragger: with botched mac addr so shouldnt even reach internet, i think theyre getting dropped at some local router
vc: yes, that would be aftables
vc: I filter mac addresses...
Framedragger: ahhh. not a bad thing hm
vc: arptables*
vc: and some other one
Framedragger: vc: thanks for clarifying!
vc: idk
vc: yep
Framedragger: right i'll stop diddling with mac addresses and do some actual packet-sending work heh
shinohai: asciilifeform: muh censorship!
Framedragger: vc: yep, all good otherwise !
mircea_popescu: mod6 end of month
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what sense does that make anyway ?
mod6: mircea_popescu: cool, good dela.
mod6: *deal
mircea_popescu: Framedragger are you having fun ? :D
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah afk shit is calming down, so getting back to variations packet madness :D
Framedragger: and yeah that's hot
Framedragger: *variations of
a111: Logged on 2016-06-12 18:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what sense does that make anyway ?
Framedragger: (gun resume and finish ipv4 open ssh port scans tonight with vc's node (vc: it's randomized ip range scan and only 30 kpackets/s, before you ask), and then deploy ~10 vps nodes for ssh key extraction, feeding port-22-open-list from the former into the latter.)
thestringpuller: "Without any regulation you can't stop a bad actor before they start. They only need to scam people once to make a lot of money.
thestringpuller: ^- sometimes i wonder if people even deserve Bitcoin
vc: Framedragger: I'm cool with port scans, neither me nor my parent host cares
Framedragger: vc: cool, and i remember you saying this the first time otherwise wouldn't have done it, just wanted to let you know that these particular scans won't (*completely*) trash the reputation of the currently assigned ipv4 :)
Framedragger: thestringpuller: "do people deserve bitcoin?" is this still a non-rhetorical question? :)
thestringpuller: Framedragger: The mass adoption crowd is much like the Bernie Sanders crowd.
thestringpuller: They are actually one in the same. Socialist by any other name. For fuck's sake.
thestringpuller: I refuse to live in a world where my hard work is plundered by mr. millenial who was sucking on his momma's tit until 22.
shinohai: Better kill yourself then.
Framedragger: i would maintain that the socialist set and the doesnt-deserve-bitcoin set are not necessarily mutually exclusive; at least this cannot be known a priori. mp et al. would argue that it can; so be it
Framedragger: oh shit i meant
Framedragger: the mapping between the sets is not necessarily bijective, i.e. one-to-one
Framedragger: but to show this / give examples of some differences.. eh fuck that, too much effort
Framedragger: > kakobrekla: and if someone is missing mps clothless pic, please enjoy https://bou.si/4c/1465748545019.png
shinohai: ./send kakobrekla ( ::: [ ] ::: )
thestringpuller: Framedragger: I was being hyperbolic. My point was more that the mass adoption crowd is too stupid to regulate themselves, and as such would like to punish all of Bitcoin.
thestringpuller: All mass adoption will cause is more people getting scammed.
thestringpuller: Maybe more teen mothers.
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 2654284789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Agora One; Agora Two; Owned One; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F0E003608EA39E53320224486E8BE078D66D2E7CC62438F4A42878C73BF67A3C
mircea_popescu: Framedragger a) what "et al" ; b) no i wouldn't.
Framedragger: thestringpuller: yes, fair enough
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: apologies - too much presumption on my part, then!
Framedragger: in other news, am casually looking into perfect forward secrecy in *asynchronous* communications. this *may* turn out to be relevant for gossipd enthusiasts and connoisseurs in the long run, too. the most simple way appears to be for nodes to generate a bunch of "pre-keys" (halves of ephemeral key exchange), and store/cache them somewhere (obvs signed by their permanent identity key), a la https://whispersystems.org/blog/asynchronous-sec
Framedragger: this way one can (in principle) achieve pfs for communications between otherwise offline nodes
Framedragger: "this one weird trick" kind of thing, not too smart, but possibly just smart enough.
Framedragger: (incidentally, author has a nice writing voice, https://moxie.org/stories.html / moxie.org)
asciilifeform: framedragger: moxie is usg stooge.
asciilifeform: $s marlinspike
Framedragger: asciilifeform: bullshit.
Framedragger: logs are no help btw
Framedragger: but i'm too tired now.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: btw the prekey idea is sound, with or without ad hominem
asciilifeform: Framedragger: as reflected in the log search, marlinspike is usg asset and infamous pusher of crypto snakeoil.
asciilifeform: i will countenance any pretense to the contrary.
asciilifeform: *will NOT
asciilifeform: moxie m pushes shitphones. and ssl monkey tricks. and 'pgp is obsolete'.
asciilifeform: fuck him - with red hot poker.
asciilifeform: but yes, gossip node can issue as many ephemeral keys as it wants - this is ~obvious~
asciilifeform: and certainly not invented by usg stooge, it was in my comment series under mircea_popescu's original gossipd article.
mircea_popescu: not entirely clear what the benefit of ~signing~ said ephemeral keys is however
mircea_popescu: the concepts are contradictory.
Framedragger: concepts not contradictory, you use one as session key, the other to link sessions in terms of authorship / who participates in said sessions. unless you meant something more technical/particular mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: if it's signed it's not ephemeral.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: won't argue as it's obvious that it'd be fruitless. i can certainly see the viewpoint. "what he pushes == snakeoil" is a strong accusation tho. however, i'm not prepared to provide defence till i'm old, weary, and wise (or at least till i'm old)
mircea_popescu: the authority of an ephemeral key must be a) contextual and b) not reconstructable.
Framedragger: ephermeral keys are usually used for encryption; i don't think the functions of permanent vs. ephermeral keys are mutually exclusive at all
Framedragger: all i meant was that you e.g. have an otr fingerprint - which represents a permanent keypair. but your otr client establishes ephemeral key per each session
mircea_popescu: otr is ~broken, i wouldn't want it as an example for functional pfs.
Framedragger: however if you want to be sure that it was bob who constructed this session that you're now participating in - your old friend bob will have to show that he owns the private key
Framedragger: right, the example, however, only probed a general scheme, and no protocol particulars. but fair enough
mircea_popescu: anyway, to understand each other : if M are messages signed by K[eys], then if on the basis of M2 you can prove that indeed K1 was used for M1 then your system is not pfs, and K aren't ephemeral.
Framedragger: i think i expressed myself badly, though.
Framedragger: hm, see i put more weight on the "can't encrypt if permanent key is compromised" part in pfs
Framedragger: *decrypt
mircea_popescu: there's one definition of pfs, and that is, later keys being compromised does not show anything about earlier keys.
mircea_popescu: ~anything~.
Framedragger: butbut, yes of course, hence the whole idea of otr actually changing session key constantly, for plausible deniability and all that (and won't argue that it's not broken)
Framedragger: right.
mircea_popescu: sure, but merely "chaning" the key is not good enough. if it signs it... they're there.
Framedragger: right, so your idea of pfs is perfect unlinkability, so to speak. of course this makes sense
mircea_popescu: not exactly trivial to implement, obv.
Framedragger: how do you ensure that it's still bob you're talking to, or do you not care (on some technical or literal level)
mircea_popescu: you ever got to read the many discussions re gossipd in log ? this part is there.
Framedragger: ..getting to it. lots of stupid jokes to sift through. but thanks, will continue
mircea_popescu: (if you mean, in gossipd. if you mean in general... ouf, complicated issue.)
Framedragger: both, i suppose, or either would be interesting. gossipd probably provides decent constraints and framework for thought, so might as well stick to that
Framedragger: (i hope you lost any hope in ip address in packet as a form of identity/proof/whatnot, though!)
Framedragger: (i mean, ip address as it appears in an IP header)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467075 one of the more recent installments.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 13:52 mircea_popescu: actually, let me go into detail, why the hell not. ("because derps stalk the logs for examples of how x doesn't understand y" "and ?" "myeah.")
Framedragger: thanks
mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't think ips were ever seriously considered as identity.
Framedragger: (aha, "actual order" of messages is not one of the requirements; interesting; i suppose folks who maintain that breaking order integrity == breaking s3curity!! are kind of derpy anyway, in the sense that if you have something critical to communicate, you'll find other means to derive integrity, etc.)
mircea_popescu: more importantly, "order" is not clearly a physical entity. all you have is observers.
Framedragger: very quantum :)
mircea_popescu: can't be helped.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481352 << ephemeral key is when only the participants can reconstruct the chain.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 00:23 mircea_popescu: anyway, to understand each other : if M are messages signed by K[eys], then if on the basis of M2 you can prove that indeed K1 was used for M1 then your system is not pfs, and K aren't ephemeral.
asciilifeform: i.e. nonpublic pubkey.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481339 << a correct gossipd node processed NOT ONE BYTE unless it is covered by a signature traceable to a known peer.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 00:13 mircea_popescu: not entirely clear what the benefit of ~signing~ said ephemeral keys is however
asciilifeform: any other behaviour - invitation to shitflood.
Framedragger: i'll sketch mp's scheme on a whiteboard tomorrow or thereabouts, so i can say that i get the picture. makes sense overall, in terms of no chans as such, etc etc.
Framedragger: pfs is unclear but then who had it easy with worthwhile things anyway
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i understand it perfectly. but the baroque marlinspiked version is satanic and deliberately overcomplicated.
asciilifeform: like all shitgnomatic productions.
Framedragger: didn't think it was overcomplicated tbh, i mean, not this particular part anyway
Framedragger: DH exchange gets temporally split, so to speak
Framedragger: not saying that it wouldn't be super easy to fuck it up via all sorts of baroque side channels and whatnot
Framedragger: and that his implementation isn't fucked
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481381 << would the scheme of gossipd in your mind as it currently stands allow for signatures by a non-permanent gpg key (by something akin to ephemeral key)? identity (of communicating party) integrity would be within the decrypted contents; but not ascertainable by message header (here's gpg id 0xbabe)
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 00:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481339 << a correct gossipd node processed NOT ONE BYTE unless it is covered by a signature traceable to a known peer.
asciilifeform: i did say 'traceable to'
Framedragger: right, which allows for transitivity of one sort or another, i suppose. fair enough
asciilifeform: but ephemeral keys are necessary because there is NO reason why usg should know which lord is speaking to which.
asciilifeform: (pubkeys, in all known asymmetric systems, can be inferred from M bytes of traffic. so NO pubkey should ever transmit a burst of >=M.)
thestringpuller: node died and starts by being stuck
mircea_popescu: prolly should also be pointed out that atm the design is yet the consistency of pudding.
Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all
Framedragger: 'cause it's mad, i tell you
mircea_popescu: not such a bad idea.
Framedragger: may even be possible to piggyback / re-use https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot ; putting this for later reconsideration; off to sleep, later!
ben_vulpes: 20-something, "put wifi in the cardano!"
ben_vulpes: 2016, "put moxie marlinspike in gossipd!"
ben_vulpes: 2020 something something egalitarian treatment of UCI nodes
phf: asciilifeform: you were right, four quarters is a large shtf project, using hippie and music festivals to find their operations. i can see why orlol would like it
mircea_popescu: ;;ud shtf
gribble: Error: We broke The Google!
phf: shit hits the fan, preparedness crowd term for hypothetical future civilization break down
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'shit hit the fan'
asciilifeform: phf has it
mircea_popescu: that's what i thought but it dun parse.
mircea_popescu: to fund their ops ?
phf: well, they've been buying up land around where they are with loans, and paying it off from donations and festivals which they write off as "religious ceremonies".
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is as good a plan as it gets in the context.
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