Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-10 | 2016-05-12 → ↓
deedbot: [Trilema] STFU, Attention Whore Culture. - http://trilema.com/2016/stfu-attention-whore-culture/
mod6: mircea_popescu: I've updated the tickets graph. The nodes are clickble now, and liednk to the htmlified tickets.html filon the server.
mod6: I've also got the graph going from L->R, i can't seem to get it to be less wide very easy. Anyway, let me know what you think:
mod6: all comments are welcome.
mod6: On the otherhand, there isn't a legend yet. Green nodes = Saga tickes, Red nodes = Defect tickets.
mod6: So got a few things left.
mod6: Anyway, night!
mircea_popescu: ok now that's pretty cool mod6
mircea_popescu: "does not believe in doxxing" lost my interest.
BingoBoingo: In other news Rodham-Clinton lost West Virginia to Sanders. Trump-Clinton won his contest.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's gonna be so fucking lulzy when trump ends up at the white house and he does exactly what obama did. remember, the nigger was gonna be entirely 100% not like bush, and like close down guantanamo and get out of iraq etc ?
mircea_popescu: read my lips : no scripts are new.
ben_vulpes: man i hate the "legacy building" phase of presidencies
ben_vulpes: someone tried to tell me obab did away with DADT
ben_vulpes: nigga were you sleeping during third grade american civics? all he did is not veto it
BingoBoingo imagines ben_vulpes president of cascadia spending his last year in office tearing apart everything he built during his term
ben_vulpes: i can't really imagine "serving the people" in any way
mircea_popescu: "president of cascadia" and "serving the people" have very little overlap neh ?
shinohai: ;;ticker --market all
shinohai: well
shinohai: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 453.93, vol: 4446.17740376 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 449.273, vol: 6173.5524 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 453.11, vol: 9540.42070612 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 453.760512, vol: 22661.87470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 454.153, vol: 1711.23759927 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 455.96448, vol: 55.81575722 | Volume-weighted last average: 453.034732962
ben_vulpes: i suppose
deedbot: [Trilema] Eulora Hall of Fame - http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-hall-of-fame/
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: epic
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, even, i suspect, will like it.
mircea_popescu: the who ?
a111: Logged on 2016-05-11 16:04 ben_vulpes: https://zedshaw.com/2015/07/26/turd-cookies/ << morning chuckles
asciilifeform: that there's the whole life story of opensores.
mircea_popescu: pretty good write-up. who's the zedshaw guy ?
asciilifeform: iirc, a programmer-humourist sort
ben_vulpes: $google "rails is a ghetto"
deedbot: https://www.reddit.com/user/RailsIsAGhetto << overview for RailsIsAGhetto | https://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/3jow6q/why_arent_there_any_online_ruby_courses_coursera/ << Why aren't there any online Ruby courses? Coursera, Edx, Udacity ... | https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/37yh7u/tired_of_feeling_unwelcome_by_not_being_from/ << Tired of feeling unwelcome by not being "from" Austin. : Austin
ben_vulpes: i think at this point $google only serves to demonstrate how pathetically useless google is.
ben_vulpes: programmer/humorist isn't bad
ben_vulpes: mostly notable in my mind for not taking shit and dishing out solid cussings
mircea_popescu: well if you know him tell him we like him nao ?
asciilifeform: 'Before Mongrel I was building kick ass software for the NYC Dept. of Correction with a tiny team. We were doing innovative stuff like REST XML feeds of prisoner releases and RSS of prisoner transfers. It was fun, I was in charge, and things were pretty good.
asciilifeform: ' << win
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i don't actually know him
mircea_popescu: nah, he has better. "reading poetry is like explaining jokes, except the inane hipster is deeply attached to what he's doing"
asciilifeform: 'The main Rails application that DHH created required restarting ~400 times/day. ' << he has to be joking, right ??
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this is famous!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: which this
ben_vulpes: the constant restarts!
mircea_popescu: alf the sheltered bee-dog.
asciilifeform: what can i do, even my trb hasn't restarted since december
mircea_popescu: see, and the dept of computer corrections tried to help you with your phuctor
asciilifeform: l0lctor
trinque: ben_vulpes: gawd, I remember that pain. setting resource limits that triggered a restart was just "how it's done" on rails
mircea_popescu: "This defense of the personal in open source is so bad that twice I’ve had project leaders tell me strangely personal tragic shit about them to keep me from commenting publicly about their projects. "
mircea_popescu: for the love of fuck already.
mircea_popescu: https://zedshaw.com/2015/08/02/the-defense-of-the-personal/#comment-106 << "I’m absolutely fascinated by bitcoin. Both because it is so crazy that people are using it as money, and because of its technical details. If I had time I’d definitely investigate it further but for now I just observe and wonder."
mircea_popescu: by now an early point when checking people is to... look on phuctor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform any chance i could get freeform grep for userstrings somewhere in there ?
mircea_popescu: annoyingly enough, there's a half dozen keys for zed a shaw from 1998-2002 ; all 1kb, from arizona state onwards.
mircea_popescu: the crypto war got so fucking lost for some reason... wtf happened in 2002 already.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's wrong with curl .... | grep ... ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron if you don't mind drop a note @lzsthw with a link here, tell him he can have 0.1 btc if he shows up.
asciilifeform: recall, single-pages
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wanna search the whole db.
mircea_popescu: actually... consider giving someone with a bot sql access ? as per teh earlier discussions with this ?
asciilifeform: anyone in particular interested ?
mircea_popescu: then i could $search phuctor "zed\|shaw"
asciilifeform: trinque ?
ben_vulpes: https://twitter.com/lzsthw/status/724416377704980484 << oh ffs why do people insist on buffers not ALWAYS REFLECTING THAT WHICH IS ON DISK?
asciilifeform: dafuq is 'atom'
trinque: asciilifeform: can do; drop me a gpg-gram with db info?
trinque: I'll be leaving in about 30min, can hax this tomorrow
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: webkit 'editor'
asciilifeform: trinque: this will take some preparation
asciilifeform: trinque: i have literally no provisions for it atm
ben_vulpes: because you need 300mb of browser to edit text files
trinque: asciilifeform: whenever is cool by me
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that sounds miserable
ben_vulpes: no no
ben_vulpes: /slack/ is miserable
ben_vulpes: it fires up a new webkit foe every team
ben_vulpes: 'team'
ben_vulpes: yup this chat app is eating > 4G of ram rn
trinque: I refuse to use that thing through anything other than the IRC gateway
mircea_popescu: trinque tomorrow's lovely.
ben_vulpes: trinque: yeah i should try that again
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i got to see what 'slack' was at rupturefarms.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-11 16:34 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron if you don't mind drop a note @lzsthw with a link here, tell him he can have 0.1 btc if he shows up.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2016/q2/322 << sooo precious
davout: i enjoyed his "learn C the hard way" and tried to pay him some btc for it a good while ago, didn't really catch as far as i remember
ben_vulpes: he is by my read "an old man"
ben_vulpes: has his wot, lives in its bubble.
davout: imho his bubble isn't too far from sanity
asciilifeform: typical. e.g., taleb. and we, to him, are indistinguishable from cosmic background noise, because 'where were you lot when we conquered the west in covered wagons, aha?'
asciilifeform: davout: that is not the picture i get from your link
davout: i can see why
davout: guy apparently relied on his wot for an educated opinion, looks like it failed him
mircea_popescu: hey mod6 if you have time today to hold my hand with your T, ima move the whole "hey x plox y" thing over.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "You think I'm going to help you befoul his legacy by giving this country to them who's had no hand in fighting for it ? Why? Because they come off the boat crawling with lice and begging you for soup?" http://trilema.com/2016/gangs-of-new-york/
mircea_popescu: tis on trilema. so there!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, that west
mircea_popescu: anyway. the society of intelligent folk is entirely optional for other intelligent folk. he doesn't HAVE to. he may, if he wants to, s'all.
asciilifeform: naturally.
mircea_popescu: and as to the "o no, it was us in 2004"... link or it didn't happen.
mircea_popescu: for that money, i discovered america in 864, except i forgot to tell anyone at the time
asciilifeform: it's the usual 'we did this and it was boring, move along'
deedbot: [Qntra] Ransomware Industry Tightening Product Quality - http://qntra.net/2016/05/ransomware-industry-tightening-product-quality/
mircea_popescu: somehow wot:nonperson has a hard time getting out of this mindset where he may actually contribute politically.
mircea_popescu: nobody fucking asks the cows what they thing about ethics, ie, "what's best" or such.
mircea_popescu: somehow they think they may propose judgements of value. it boggles the mind.
BingoBoingo: It's alright, he discovered white folk in 1792
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is "octskyward" anyway ?
BingoBoingo: Hearnia
mircea_popescu: lol mkay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "seems legit based on what my contacts have confirmed", ie, lew rockwell stupidity all over again.
asciilifeform: or taleb, or, ... etc.
asciilifeform: there is a common pattern, as ben_vulpes observed
asciilifeform: in the smart folx who don't show up.
mircea_popescu: im kinda curious what he thinks his "contacts" are.
mircea_popescu: i'm of course none to pleased that intel virgins use intel terms of art as if that somehow makes them experienced, much in the way obnoxious 17yo prisses talk about things.
asciilifeform: good chances it's 100% people who know of bitcoin from 'forbes'.
mircea_popescu: da fuck, every dude with a twitter and a github has "contacts" nao ? what is this, casablanca for the masses ?
mircea_popescu: and he trusts but verifies his contacts through a well oiled process of...
BingoBoingo: Perhaps his contaxt is Kumala from Vircures
BingoBoingo: *Vircurex
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... of reading same issue of 'forbes' !1111 of course.
asciilifeform: what if they misread!
mircea_popescu: talking of historical "contacts" (ie, derps accidentally caught in bitcoin historically), i'm still kinda curious re obsi. i suspect was a rather fuckable chick.
mircea_popescu: obsi, ran this independent ponzi on glbse
asciilifeform: from whence comes the suspicion that it was a chick?
mircea_popescu: style, mostly.
asciilifeform: hm now i'm curious
asciilifeform: what that means.
asciilifeform always regarded the notion as crackpottery, that one could tell
ben_vulpes: 'rather fuckable' pulled my right eyebrow clear up to my hairline
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm pretty sure one can tell.
mircea_popescu: at least tell enough to know where to look further.
mircea_popescu: oddly i dun see anything in logs, though i'm pretty sure was chatting in chan at some point in 2012ish
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is this one of those 'can't be taught or described' magic juices ?
mircea_popescu: can be taught, i'm sure.
BingoBoingo: In other news it looks like Ver barred himself from the US again. Put a "casino" on his webshite nao. Claims Curaçao license.
mircea_popescu: Sep 02 20:38:38 * Obsi (~Obsi@unaffiliated/obsi) has joined #bitcoin-assets << there
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'again' ? i thought he was perma-banned
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, he was at some conference in USia within the last 4 months or so.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wasn't he formally drummed out ?
BingoBoingo: Ban wasn't as perma as previously thought
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or is that no longer a thing (as i and many others predicted)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: He renounced his citizenship and made a fuss over not getting a visa once
asciilifeform: one imho interesting quirk of international convention is that most countries will not 'count' your renunciation if you don't have a spare citizenship somewhere else
asciilifeform: idea being that 'stateless' folk are 'victims' with 'rights' and you can't simply get that status artificially on own free will
asciilifeform: or something.
asciilifeform for instance could 'renounce' 10 times every morning before breakfast and nobody would give a shit
mircea_popescu: similarly courts won't count emancipation unless you're actually prepared to be a state.
mircea_popescu: i mean an adult.
mircea_popescu: what ? family law, state law, same deal./
asciilifeform: approx. aha
mircea_popescu: the whole "nationality" thing means "where do we dump this fuck to be rid of him".
asciilifeform: there were, at one point, designated junkyards for this
asciilifeform: e.g., shanghai before '45 or so
asciilifeform: (no passports, come as you are, etc)
mircea_popescu: siberia, for that matter, australia, the us before that...
asciilifeform: well yeah but most recently.
asciilifeform: last one to close, afaik.
mircea_popescu: nah, eastern yurp, africa even today...
mircea_popescu: syria, ukraina, etc.
asciilifeform: which eastern eu
asciilifeform: when i went to ro i had to get 2 different stamps
mircea_popescu: early 90s, they'd just dump whores/gypsies around the danube.
asciilifeform: natoified east eur is not the same as the old orc lands
asciilifeform: and i'd rather make landfall in antarctica than africa. but that's quite a personal preference.
mircea_popescu: as a guy you'll be fine.
asciilifeform: since when does tsetse fly care whether guy or not
mircea_popescu: eh. you have the strange ideas of a petit bourgeois that never went past rouen.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu explored africa ?
mircea_popescu: what's next, the gators are gun getcha in the wash dc swamp ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on horseback!
asciilifeform: eh that wasn't real africa
mircea_popescu: who could have predicted this answer.
mircea_popescu: they don't dump you in meta-africa, yo.
asciilifeform: well presumably you can't just walk into egypt or za
asciilifeform: thread was about control-less ports
mircea_popescu: with the flow of immigrants they've been dumping tons around the southern shores yes.
mircea_popescu: thread wasn't about bug acting on its own, thread was about "designated junkyards for this".
asciilifeform: in my eye going as part of a migrant wave is 'cheating' but.. sure.
asciilifeform is lone bug and thinks as such
mircea_popescu: bug doesn't swarm because stupid ; bug swarms because at its size and so on, that's the only schelling point.
asciilifeform: no doubt.
mircea_popescu: much like how women don't collectivize because stupid ; they collectivize because if you ain't got upper body strength, the shewail is all that's left.
asciilifeform: but realize, what's next, 'you didn't need passport to go to ru' 'when?' 'oh i went with wehrmacht in '41'
mircea_popescu: quite so.
mircea_popescu: being part of a sovereign that doesn't recognize others ; and has the tank divisions, means that you don't need "passports".
asciilifeform: 'hk agreement' ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you're gonna read random garbage, plox provide summaries. i'm not going to follow "bitcoin-dev" bullshit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: safe to skip, it's rubbish
asciilifeform: summary: todd steals mircea_popescu's idea of 'let's change pow to kill miners'
asciilifeform: except that he does it in derp concert and therefore uninterestingly
mircea_popescu: who could have predicted this development.
mircea_popescu: last night while i was probing a butt with my own probiscus outdoors, a butterfly landed on it, and probed it with his own. prolly because sweat's so yummy to butterflies.
mircea_popescu: ergo, random lepidoptera stole my fuck.
asciilifeform: speaking of this,
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, no fucks given.
asciilifeform: didja ever get the ovipositor tool thing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu uses the real thing strictly!1111
mircea_popescu: these things... they have lengthy gestation periods.
mircea_popescu: discussed as a joke at first with horrified girls, maybe eventually edged towards but not as a rule. what's the rush and what's the drive anyway.
asciilifeform: outdoors << neato. i envy - it's been raining for ~3 wks nearly straight here.
mircea_popescu: very nice pleasant warm autumn in Булучеало.
asciilifeform: lel! mircea_popescu renamed his castle mircea_popescustein ?!
mircea_popescu: no lol. why ?
a111: Logged on 2016-05-11 17:57 mircea_popescu: very nice pleasant warm autumn in Булучеало.
mircea_popescu: it's buluk-ayres, what do you want from me.
mircea_popescu: and of course the mayor's gonna be the başi-buzuk of buluk-ayres.
mircea_popescu: actually başıbozuk, but anyway.
asciilifeform falls down.
asciilifeform: briefly revisiting ben_vulpes's mega-link,
mircea_popescu: hopefully a guy by the name Bursuc (badger, ro) gets the job,
asciilifeform: 'Here’s a bit of background on me: My education is in business. I have a BS in MIS and almost finished my MS but ran out of money. I’ve got more business education than most of the MBAs out there, and I have a nearly formal education in software development, modeling, statistical analysis, and sociology. I’ve done it all, but what does the slick talking shit head car sales MBA loser think I am
asciilifeform: ? Just a code monkey.'
asciilifeform: ^ this is why i have not ever touched wwwtronics and will not
mircea_popescu: so then i can have over for dinner The Right Hon Mr. Bursuc, başıbozuk of Булучеало.
asciilifeform: башибузук!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bursuc ... < барсук to us. and funnily enough his fat is sold in every ru store in usa, it appears
asciilifeform: i still have nfi what it is used for
mircea_popescu: $google grasime de bursuc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's wunderdiet thing
mircea_popescu: except from 1700
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform explain "this". that it's the sad beach where every drop-out, burn-out, shithead who fails to understand that "running out of money" means you fail, that dropping out means you fail ends up shipwrecked on ? a sort of africa of the spirit, where you find they born of slave mothers and too weak, useless and unimportant to leave ; and they borne by free women who were too weak, useless and outright dumb to hold the
mircea_popescu: ir station ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'hk agreement' ?! << Miner cartel formalization, pretty sure on qntra
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> summary: todd steals mircea_popescu's idea of 'let's change pow to kill miners' << No, more "lets prevent further optimizations from counting to cement current miner cartel"
mircea_popescu: wait, i thought "modern science" established that mp hallucinated miner cartel.
BingoBoingo: Well, yes because you hallucinated it several months after they signed the papers
mircea_popescu: ah ah, right, right.
BingoBoingo: Because of that doesn't count
BingoBoingo: But basically thing that keeps current asics but prevents better asics is on power ranger hard fork wish lizt because of treaty.
asciilifeform: the 'better asics' thing is claptrap
asciilifeform: what, 3% boost.
mircea_popescu: the whole thing is claptrap.
mircea_popescu: in other news : http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-05-11.log.html#t19:10:15 yet another valid business model pops up in eulora
mircea_popescu: (you could, in principle, build craft result actuarial tables just like you build resource mining maps or w/e ; then you can sell insurance in the complex sort of fx deals crafters need to provision their materials.)
j-dawg: can be crafting result substituted by money?
mircea_popescu: in a functional market at least.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> what, 3% boost. << If the margins for running them are <3 then win if work
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that particular angle smacks of someone playing risk. o really, "they won ww2" ? herp.
mircea_popescu: if only there was a way to sell their genius to patton for roubles or somesuch, they could have bought the whole russian stock exchange back before it was worth anything.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, young males that aren't entirely dumb go almost universally through this phase of "fantasy busienss" where they keep doing various coups in their heads, start a carwash then buy a shoestore with the proceeds then trade that in for a chain fo restaurants etc etc etc.
mircea_popescu: it's a harmless thing for 14yos to engage in, and the basis of things like business tycoon games, a large chunk of what drives lego etc.
mircea_popescu: problem being by now it's the principal intellectual activity of esl adults, risibly enough.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo that particular angle smacks of someone playing risk. o really, "they won ww2" ? herp. << What do you think they think they are playing?
BingoBoingo: What does reality have to do with Amherst?
mircea_popescu: $google "regele pe cind mergea cu calul la pas, o castana hahaha i-a cazut in cap"
deedbot: No results.
mircea_popescu: well anyway, it's from (ro) version of alice in wonderland. chestnut falls on king's head.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which'd be the problem - that they don't move past it ?
asciilifeform: well traditionally the place ~TO~ which one moved, from it, was peasanthood
asciilifeform: as in, 'no you will never buy a chain of restaurant, plow the field and make babies'
mircea_popescu: mno, usually mandatory military service.
asciilifeform: well yes, above is for the ones who didn't feed the cannon
mircea_popescu: "intellectual" schmuck, fu.
asciilifeform: at any rate ~temporary~ soldiering is quite a modern thing - old ru conscription was for 25y...
mircea_popescu: the roman version was pretty reasonable, about the same term then get land and an orc girl for a slave.
asciilifeform: yeah but had to bring own gear.
asciilifeform: that'd depend on which rome we're even thinking of, neh?
mircea_popescu: well the rome where term was ~29 years and they got land at the outskirts and a local slavegirl was post marian reform.
asciilifeform: back to the modern derps, i conjecture that there is nothing for them to move on TO
asciilifeform: (other than biodiesel reactor tank)
mircea_popescu: and so there isn't.
asciilifeform: well normally the problem is discussed in terms of 'lazy fuckers won't move'
mircea_popescu: so they won't.
asciilifeform: but they know they ought to. and 'sleep of reason breeds monsters' etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mega-american ben franklin wrote, iirc, 'most folks are dead by 25 but many aren't buried until 75'
asciilifeform: i think this is what he was thinking of.
asciilifeform: see also mircea_popescu's mega-article re how his father didn't properly grasp that his purpose was to be eaten, etc.
asciilifeform: imho death comes not when one begins to feed worms (satan knows, half the planet is feeding worms while motherfucking alive and walking)
asciilifeform: but when you fully grasp that 'i won't be napoleon' or whatever.
asciilifeform: in other lulz,
asciilifeform: 'On Provably Secure Code-based Signature and Signcryption
asciilifeform: Scheme'
asciilifeform: 'No Author Given' 'No Institute Given'
asciilifeform: more vintage lulz,
asciilifeform: ^ the lock is the mandatory usg lock, see logz where i described it in agonizing detail
asciilifeform: (you can buy it, even, on ebay, and for some reason the maker saw it fit to sand off the ic tops, implying that there is something to be gained from reversing...)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibru.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, this is for some reason hardest for males, the simple disjunction "this one is special ; i am not special. it is my place in this world to be sacrificed for him.". it comes more naturally to mothers somehow.
mircea_popescu: though considering the time the same males spend playing "trading card games" and derived stuff where the levelling happens through SACRIFICING motherfucking other cards... you'd think it'd light up already.
asciilifeform: there is also 'selection bias'
asciilifeform: folks who properly grasp 'i am not special' tend to eat pistol
asciilifeform: and we do not hear from them.
mircea_popescu: eh, really.
mircea_popescu: what, can only be actor if leading man ? can't be supporting cast ? says so on statue of self ?
asciilifeform: aha. forgoing the nagant is quite a presumptious thing. 'i have somethng more to say in the world!1111'
mircea_popescu: why can't it just be "there's people with theorems to prove still ; and their cocks won't suck themselves" ?
asciilifeform: it can be
asciilifeform: if you're a gurl
asciilifeform: they got this in firmware.
mircea_popescu: i think it's pretty universal.
mircea_popescu: if you look at how the firmware works, only difference between boys and girls is ONE! Y chromosome.
mircea_popescu: can't be girls have MORE than boys in firmware.
asciilifeform: #ifdef's.
asciilifeform: (srsly)
mircea_popescu: imo this entire "can only play if the game's about me" is very much retardo-puritan nonsense, of the same ilk as "everything's a technologee and i shall better my lyf".
asciilifeform: speaking of which, ( asciilifeform is winding up last week in rupturefarms, is there still) i met for i think first time a... 'trans' folk (he? she? zhe?)
asciilifeform: (they hired one)
asciilifeform: $up fromphuctor
deedbot: fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
fromphuctor: what is your opinion on this ? https://letsencrypt.org/
fromphuctor: Let’s Encrypt is a new Certificate Authority: It’s free, automated, and open.
mircea_popescu: fromphuctor you know what the wot is ?
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: ssl/tls (and all pki systems of whatever form) is rubbish.
asciilifeform: i have no idea why this is not obvious to all.
fromphuctor: what is wot ?
mircea_popescu: $google "What the WoT is, how it works and how to use it"
BingoBoingo: Either Web Of Trust or Weird Old Trains
deedbot: No results.
mircea_popescu: world of tanks lol. trinque wtf the api can't be that broken ?!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: don't foreget tanks
asciilifeform: ah mircea_popescu beat me to it.
mircea_popescu: so then fromphuctor : the dudes that made that aren't in the wot ; consequently, it's a scam.
fromphuctor: yes, but if they are giving away certs is because they want people to use theirs instead of others
fromphuctor: from CA maybe outside USA ?
mircea_popescu: or because certs are exactly worthless anyway.
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: is it so hard to grasp that the very ~concept~ of a ca is broken ?
asciilifeform: why would you agree to use a system with master keys ?
mircea_popescu: well possibly it's his first time among sane people, so he never heard of this before.
fromphuctor: hopefully u should trust your browser... so u should trust the CA it supports, and so the browser support cert signed by the CA supported by the browser
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: and if i don't ?
mircea_popescu: i never trusted a browser.
mircea_popescu: besides, the web is something that happens in curl, not a browser.
fromphuctor: good luck in developing a browser !
mircea_popescu: the road ahead is long, and full of surprises.
fromphuctor: still how do u defend yourself from MitM attacks without a signede cert ?
davout: $down fromphuctor
mircea_popescu: eh let's indulge
mircea_popescu: $up fromphuctor
deedbot: fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: fromphuctor we use rsa over http. https is about as useful/functional as tor.
davout: guess coming from phuctor grants a few bonus points eh
mircea_popescu: look at mpex for instance ; or at deedbot etc.
fromphuctor: do u think US NIST is pushing ECC instead of RSA because they cannot crack RSA ?
mircea_popescu: davout it's just that [to my parser] he's managed to merely ask questions, without veering into the normative nonsense.
mircea_popescu: fromphuctor yeah ; this has actually been discussed in the logs.
asciilifeform: yesterday, even.
mircea_popescu: ironically, they're now seeing themselves forced to migrate back to rsa ; because ecc shit is weak.
mircea_popescu: the whole ecc push may go down in history as one of the finest moments of "being too smart for one's own good" lulz.
fromphuctor: ideally people should just move to 4k keys, no ?
fromphuctor: (rsa keys i mean)
asciilifeform: and no particular reason why not 8.
mircea_popescu: "no less than 4".
davout: asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-10#1465482 <<< google translate's fucking unreadable
mircea_popescu: fromphuctor do you understand how deeds/deedbot work ?
fromphuctor: not yet
fromphuctor: i used to use IRC in the 90s
a111: Logged on 2016-05-08 23:43 hanbot: deedbot- http://thewhet.net/han/mpifpc4_closure.txt.asc
davout: i've always been intrigued about this republican of ECC, is it because of something with the discrete logarithm problem underlying math i don't understand, or is it because of the particular way ECC crypto was developed?
davout: *republican dislike
mircea_popescu: she passed to the bot a command, which contains a http bit of text. the bot took it and made it a deed ; here : http://deedbot.org/
mircea_popescu: how did it protect itself from mitm ?
mircea_popescu: davout there are two lobes to this problem./
asciilifeform: davout: it isn't about the mathematics per se (though it is quite considerably trickier than rsa and this is ipso facto an evil)
asciilifeform: davout: it is about who pushed it, how, with what fud (e.g., false claims of 'bits of security' and of equivalence thereof to rsa, etc)
mircea_popescu: one is that the mp excomunicated it, perhaps on the basis of not liking how it's being sold, perhaps because he reads the secret documents, who knows.
mircea_popescu: the other lobe is that when buying snake oil ; buy the cheapest. ecc is undully complicated.
davout: aha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obv has his own list ; in the end it's one of those where people agreed with conclusions each for his own reason set i guess.
mircea_popescu: (and yes crypto is snake oil atm ; for reasons expounded upon by alf an' others).
fromphuctor: mircea, is deedbot giving away bitcoins ?!
mircea_popescu: it's teh tmsr official faucet.
mircea_popescu: offers third party deed verification.
mircea_popescu: also encourages individual study ; and sane individuals generally.
mircea_popescu: tmsr, aka b,tmsr~ and la serenissima. The Most Serene Republic, worldwide ultimate sovereign.
fromphuctor: ok, i leave, i have many things to read now :)
shinohai: Faucet? lol
mircea_popescu: well yeah
davout: i fail to see how this kind of proposition makes any sense in a "pari mutuel" context
davout: a dumb bot could place wagers on this kind of stuff
BingoBoingo: Maybe that it how they plan to profit?
BingoBoingo: HouseBot
mircea_popescu: davout iirc bitbet tried it once, for curiosity. i guess they weren't watching along back then
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hey mod6 if you have time today to hold my hand with your T, ima move the whole "hey x plox y" thing over. << hi! i should be available in a few hours for sure.
mod6: ok actually, around pretty much for the rest of the night.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: do we wish to preserve http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/best_of_mpoe-pr in new wiki ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 aite i'll see if i can stand up.
mircea_popescu: shinohai i guess so. prolly shouldn't delete much unless it's actually wrong.
shinohai: mkay
shinohai: Are those chopsticks on her tongue?
shinohai: Creative.
mod6: nn
mod6: *nb
mod6: how's it goin Mr. P.? How can I help.
mircea_popescu: mod6 so how do i create a ticket ?
mod6: you can just `./t.pl tickets.txt add` and it'll prompt you from the cli.
mircea_popescu: and then how would you see it ?
mod6: i may add new ways to do this in the not too distant future. either via bot, or perhaps by just like piping in the info in from the cli.
mod6: when you're done adding/editing or deleteing a ticket, just print them if you wish `./t.pl tickets.txt p`
mod6: or if you know the id number, do `./t.pl tickets.txt pid <TICKET_ID>`
mircea_popescu: mod6 how about if there was a ticket bot ; and we had a website, a la deedbot.org, where tickets could be seen ; and we had acess control based on pgp, so that either world, lordship, or specified people can see a particular ticket set ?
mircea_popescu: so everyone who wants shit done by, say, btcbase, can put tickets in btcbase rather than put them here and hope they won't be forgotten in the log.
mircea_popescu: and then whoever's maintaining the thing, can read through em, when working on it.
mod6: sounds great to me. i was just talking about stripping down atcbot and reusing the skeleton to build a bot for this.
mod6: trinque: any thoughts here? should we just collaborate on this? phf?
mircea_popescu: truth is by now i'm not even sure exactly how many distinct projects we're managing, but it's over a dozen, and will only keep growing. gotta import some management tools into all this, casual worked long enough
mod6: for sure.
mircea_popescu: mod6 honestly having another bot would be very good for resiliency in my eyes.
mod6: cool. i'll make that the next step. getting it to be botified.
mircea_popescu: however, a major point of collaboration imo, would be if everyone who runs bots (ie, deedbot, yours putatively, etc) ALSO keep logs, and provide phf with passive redundancy
mircea_popescu: rather than him having to make logger bots *m
mircea_popescu: you'd have to give him sql access to a log db.
mod6: i guess it seems reasonable.
mod6: so, make 'tbot' for instance. then allow people to create tickets under whatever project they want.
mod6: as long as they're in the wot.
mircea_popescu: the pgp permissioning being perhaps the trickiest part of it all. but ideally iut'd work like
mod6: yeah, that part will be a huge pain.
mircea_popescu: $tbot btcbase wot would result in a dump of the ticketlist for btcbase encrypted to my key that's of level world and level wot.
mod6: well, maybe not huge, but yeah, most painful.
mircea_popescu: whereas $bot deedbot me would result in a dump of ticketlist for deedbot encrypted to my key that's of level world and wot and me.
mod6: aha. gotcha
mircea_popescu: and i should be able to add tickets in the same sense, either public or wot or specified persons by encrypting it to bot's key.
mircea_popescu: all this make sense in your head ?
mod6: conceptually.
mircea_popescu: well alright then
mod6: not sure how i'd do the encrypting part and keep it sec with minimal cost.
mod6: where minimal ~0.
mod6: anyway, i think it's some thing i can work up to.
mircea_popescu: yeah. that's the iffiest part.
mod6: i do like this idea though.
mircea_popescu: truth be told, even without permissioning it'd be pretty useful. that's more like a sort of you know, experimental wunderwaffen division, why not ask for things, see what happens.
mod6: now.. deedbot might have the infrastructure already in place to make this easier.
mod6: yeah, exactly.
mod6: i think it's a fine idea, Sir.
mircea_popescu: quite possibly, see what trinque says. running two bots does not necessarily mean one must write two bots.
shinohai: heh mod6 this is too awesum :D
mircea_popescu: totally going that way huh shinohai
mod6: :]
shinohai: Absolutely one of the most useful tools in Bitcoinspace hands down
mod6: there really are so many things going on, and many more to come, we gotta be able to track this stuff.
mircea_popescu recalls the humble beginnings when we came up with the nutty idea of having a bot do voicing in chan. that was never going to work.
mircea_popescu: coupla years later...
mod6: truth
mircea_popescu: it totally did not work what can i say.
mod6: haha
mod6: thanks for your input here, i think it takes a simple idea and scales it up nice.
shinohai: I've been lurking here almost a year now, good things happen here that just do not happen elsewhere.
mod6: 'tis the difference between a republic that people want to be a part of and want to work, and an ad-hoc gaggle of people "doing stuff"
shinohai: "We're just ideaz guyz"
shinohai: Yup, I registered on May 25, 2015 ... how time flies. I thank you all for the knowledge I have gained in said time.
mod6: Thank *you* for your hardwork!
shinohai: np, no good thing comes without hard work and trials
mod6: "A republic, if you can keep it"
mod6: where ``keep it'' invoves doing the hard, useful things that need doing.
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-05-2016 <<< congrats to asciilifeform for most lines posted yesterday LOL
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/247510B.txt << don't die of laughter.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
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