Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-01-11 | 2016-01-13 → ↓
mircea_popescu: "∀ x ∈ R ∃! y ∈ R ∋ x + y = 0" offers exactly no benefit over "for any real number there exists another real number so that the two add to 0".
mircea_popescu: not even of the "impress chicks" variety.
mircea_popescu: there IS however a fucking marked cost. and it's of the "how do we make colored unicode people" type.
phf: i will support cyrillic in my lisp,\ only because,\ it was used to write by lenin --mayakovsky
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm off. laters!
trinque: mircea_popescu │ "∀ x ∈ R ∃! y ∈ R ∋ x + y = 0" offers exactly no benefit over "for any real number there exists another real number so that the two add to 0". << ftr I am precisely the african that would benefit from the math textbook written in *only* this manner.
trinque: why create syntactic barriers to understanding when you can just kill the folks you don't want in your math club, anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00050643 = 1.8738 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: she had logs for days
punkman: dis thread
punkman: good morning pete
pete_dushenski: good evening punk :)
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367722 << and it looks super weird if you use the wrong one
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 04:27:01; mircea_popescu: (yes, greek sigma has two lowercases!)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00050473 = 4.164 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: "GM has put a 60-kWh lithium-ion battery that weighs just just 960 pounds into the floor of the Bolt. As previously announced, the Bolt's 288 cells will be able to go over 200 miles on a full charge. That full charge takes nine hours on a Level 2 EVSE thanks to the onboard 7.2-kW charger. Of course, a full charge won't be that important most days, which is why GM says that you can get 50 miles of range in "less
pete_dushenski: than two hours" on Level 2" << numbers for (playing) Bingo(Boingo)
punkman: and it does happen that something was uppercase and shitty software lowercases the sigma wrong
punkman: even if you hate the Unicode folks, they have actually codified a lot of these things and it mostly seems to work
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00050283 = 10.9114 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 06:36:31; BingoBoingo: copypaste: I suspect the reason you dislike pete_dushenski aping trilema is he comes from boring Canada and his cool factor and empire potential are limited by that.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Face it. Canada impaired your maximum potential to be interesting at this time.
pete_dushenski: yes, i shoulda been born in riyyad
punkman: you just need to kill more people pete_dushenski
BingoBoingo: Or move to Cameroon, or Cambodia
pete_dushenski: punkman: if only to balance the life i'm adding to the planet.
punkman: "carbon neutral" !
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: at least i don't live under clitler (if still natoreich)
BingoBoingo: What about your new PMS in charge?
pete_dushenski: punkman: i'm a greenie like that, what can i say
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: the kid knows his ashtanga from his saatva and not a lot besides. trudeau's as innocent as a butterfly, which is why chix dig him and dudes couldn't care less. he's nowhere near as much of a strong retard as the commie premier cunt running alberta for the next 3.5 years
BingoBoingo: You could give oregon or nevada a try
pete_dushenski: though in all seriousness, if the dumb bitches pretending to be 'drop-in daycares' and 'nannies' don't start returning phone calls and text in a timely manner, IF AT ALL, i'm a seriously cut their useless lives short.
pete_dushenski: some fat needs to be trimmed around here, whether that idjits going back to wherever the fuck they came from (ftr no one is "from" alberta) or they can learn that business isn't this thing where money and clients rain down from the sky and it's all you can do to beat them back at the door
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: you could try iqaluit too. nice and quiet there.
deedbot-: [Qntra] Intel Skylake Brings Optimized #ROWHAMMER Exploit - http://qntra.net/2016/01/intel-skylake-brings-optimized-rowhammer-exploit/
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Is there and armed insurrection in iqaluit?
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 03:58:23; *: mircea_popescu gives up in frustration. if anyone recalls the damned thing say.
assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 13:25:03; mircea_popescu: "Put another way, grep sells out its worst case (lots of partial matches) to make the best case (few partial matches) go faster. How treacherous! As this realization dawns on me, the room seemed to grow dim and slip sideways. I look up at the Ultimate Unix Geek, spinning slowly in his padded chair, and I hear his cackle "old age and treachery...", and in his flickering CRT there is a face reflected,
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] The Monotonically-Increasing Fucked-up-ed-ness of Apple Software (or, how to sync your contacts to the iPhone without exhuming Steve Himself) - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/01/11_the-monotonically-increasing-fucked-up-ed-ness-of-apple-software-or-how-to-sync-your-contacts-to-the-iphone-without-exhuming-steve-himself.html
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: aha. an update from the glitzy trenches. cheers
punkman: BingoBoingo: "In spite of supposing" maybe "expectations"
BingoBoingo: punkman: fxd to "marketing
punkman: heh
pete_dushenski: "(no, not using an iPhone of the most recent vintage is not an option)" << because ?
pete_dushenski: if 5, why not 6 ?
pete_dushenski: "For all that it appears to be a JS abomination running on the iPhone, the Google Mail application routinely trounces the Apple Mail application in searching, rendering, speed, and more or less everything one would want from an email application on the phone." << beats desktop (eg. thunderbird) handily as well. web-gmail just... wins.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: no mention of ios or osx versions in that piece. presumably this matters, no ?
pete_dushenski: i'm probably not the only one who's curious about the software versions
ben_vulpes: if vcard import breaks i want to hear about it.
ben_vulpes: but i don't have a comment section, won't.
ben_vulpes: optionality left as exercise.
ben_vulpes did not have wordspace in the above piece to explain the dev entanglement hat-trick steve pulled
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: mega-lol
ben_vulpes: man these greentexts do not even resemble those of my childhood
ben_vulpes: buncha kids
ben_vulpes: my lawn etc
mats: why not just modify 'CLFLUSH' to do the same thing as 'CLFLUSHOPT'
mats: i don't get it, why another instruction
ben_vulpes: nary a walk the dinosaur in sight
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4421 @ 0.00050473 = 2.2314 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: for my part on the phone-comp sync experiments, i'm pleased to report that the razr syncs like a charm via 10.6 'isync' once contacts are moved from sim storage to phone storage. the catch being that your next phone would also have to sync using 'isync' or else you'll have to switch the contact back to sim storage before changing phones.
pete_dushenski: but since no one else on god's green earth actually uses this set-up, it's probably a moot point
ben_vulpes: my personal phone goal is an engineering team that is on call so that i don't have to have a phone
BingoBoingo: <mats> i don't get it, why another instruction << Because Intel
BingoBoingo: How can Apple buy Skylake for Macbook if not new instructions with -opt appended
mats: also, you misspelled the instruction in qntra piece
BingoBoingo: I left out the L or did I do that and need to capitalize the whole thing?
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell mircea_popescu "acorss" lurking in your last piece
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mats: left out the L
ben_vulpes: whoa whereza trinque
BingoBoingo: Other Skylake lulz if someone (cough, cough, mats) wants to throw together a larger Intel and skylake suck piece http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/01/11/2049209/intel-skylake-bug-causes-pcs-to-freeze-during-complex-workloads
assbot: Intel Skylake Bug Causes PCs To Freeze During Complex Workloads - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjjPyQ )
BingoBoingo: "Prime95, which has historically been used to benchmark and stress-test computers, uses Fast Fourier Transforms to multiply extremely large numbers. A particular exponent size, 14,942,209, has been found to cause the system crashes."
assbot: We saw some really bad Intel CPU bugs in 2015, and we should expect to see more in the future ... ( http://bit.ly/1mRYPSL )
punkman: BingoBoingo: lulzy oregon standoff bits here https://twitter.com/amandapeacher
assbot: Amanda Peacher (@amandapeacher) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjkCQo )
punkman: "County Judge Steve Grasty says he intends to bill Ammon Bundy for $60k to $75k in daily county costs due to occupation."
BingoBoingo: ty punkman
BingoBoingo: In other news Alabama won the National Championship with an onside kick. Anyone looking for the video is advised to find the Russian audio commentators for maximum excitement, Roll Tide.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00050787 = 5.9675 BTC [+]
punkman: "Roll Tide is the rallying cry for the Alabama Crimson Tide athletic teams. The trademark to the phrase is claimed by the University of Alabama, with licensing and marketing by The Collegiate Licensing Company."
BingoBoingo: I still have no idea why their mascot is an elephant
punkman: maybe The Collegiate Licensing Company said elephant would sell well
BingoBoingo: Could be?
BingoBoingo: ALSO LOOK AT google breaking the law in the united states by distributing this: https://archive.is/xs37a
assbot: The Royal Bank of Scotland plc - Stabilisation notice | Business Wire ... ( http://bit.ly/1mS10FZ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00050794 = 8.889 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: !up Tomiii
Tomiii: Hello, does anyone know how you make a bunch of GPG private keys from a single Seed? like you can do with bitcon wallet?
Tomiii: or also, how to make a "brain wallet" for a single GPG privkey, or even a Seed?
assbot: Phidelius: Constructing Asymmetric Keypairs From Mere Passwords For Fun and PAKE | Dan Kaminsky's Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1mS23Wi )
BingoBoingo: That sounds like a very bad idea
deedbot-: [Qntra] RBS Supports Qntra's Dire Predictions For Fiat In 2016 - http://qntra.net/2016/01/rbs-supports-qntras-dire-predictions-for-fiat-in-2016/
Tomiii: BingoBoingo: if you can do it with bitcoin privatekeys, why not GPG keys?
BingoBoingo: Very different kinds of math involved
Tomiii: BingoBoingo: people said the same thing about determinstic wallets in bitcoin (at first), but now they are pretty popular
BingoBoingo: Generating GPG keys that don't suck is hard because RSA encryption is decrypted by division. Too easy to divide, falls. ECDSA in Bitcoin gets more breathing room for now because not as straight forward.
Tomiii: pretty funny that PGP is lagging behind bitcoin, when it had like 30-year head-start
BingoBoingo: is completley different types of math. Factoring versus elliptics curves involving lines and shit.
BingoBoingo: If one your your GPG key's factors is a low prime like 17 or 23, you're fucked.
Tomiii: BingoBoingo: o i c. so you can do it with ECC keys in GPG 2.1?
BingoBoingo: Why would anyone use GPG2, or ECC when RSA is available
danielpbarron: can I encrypt a message to your bitcoin private key?
BingoBoingo: Tomiii: It should be possible in theory, but why seems iffy.
danielpbarron: "If it's worth upgrading, it wasn't worth using in the first place." (TM)
Tomiii: BingoBoingo: well, determinstic keys, and much smaller keys. possibly as small as a bitcoin address.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26909 @ 0.00050575 = 13.6092 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: Tomiii: here, but probably not a great idea https://github.com/arttukasvio/deterministic
assbot: arttukasvio/deterministic · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1mS2HDa )
Tomiii: BingoBoingo: what are the downsides of ECC in gpg?
BingoBoingo: Tomiii: Well, the general downsides of ECC. At least in Bitcoin the public key isn't even public unless an address has spent a transaction.
BingoBoingo: RSA offers a longer hisotry of being studied and attacked
BingoBoingo: But generally when it comes to keys, HUGE is good
pete_dushenski to rest his weary eyes
Tomiii: thanks punkman, nice link
BingoBoingo: Note for everyone submitting stories about fiat matters for Qntra in 2016. "Sorry for your loss" is a welcome and encouraged way to end a piece.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25846 @ 0.00051129 = 13.2148 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3230 @ 0.00051207 = 1.654 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: > altcoins
ben_vulpes: what on earth has happened to qntra
ben_vulpes: cazalla went awol
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo went sober
ben_vulpes: jokes through the roof
ben_vulpes: in case its not clear BingoBoingo i'm a fan of your work
ben_vulpes: "fuck it why even try" << motherfucking gold
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.00050125 = 4.3108 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0005072 = 1.5723 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: JosephSWilliams/urcd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rz31nT )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00050447 = 14.7305 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20136 @ 0.00050122 = 10.0926 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00050104 = 6.3632 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00050559 = 6.9771 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00050024 = 3.5267 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44487 @ 0.00049902 = 22.1999 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17450 @ 0.00049933 = 8.7133 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> RSA offers a longer hisotry of being studied and attacked << more importantly, it actually fits in head. a 12 yo's head.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00050523 = 10.9635 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ecc has yet to have been fit in any heads.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367965 << this is actually a mega-l0l - a virtually 100% gossipd WITH 100% NSA CRYPTO
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 08:12:29; punkman: https://github.com/JosephSWilliams/urcd
asciilifeform: i woke up and read the docz, almost fell out of bed:
asciilifeform: 'CRYPTO_SECRETBOX is a combination of poly1305 (MAC) and xsalsa20 (stream cipher) that is used to encrypt the URCLINE. The taia96n label, CMD, and random bytes are used as the NONCE, and the secret key is chosen prior to encryption.'
asciilifeform: did not see any reason to read beyond this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lemme say this to you :
mircea_popescu: "pătratul lungimii ipotenuzei este egal cu suma pătratelor catetelor"
mircea_popescu: what did i say ?
asciilifeform: pythagor ?
asciilifeform: and yes, we know that it worked for the greeks.
mircea_popescu: now what's the symbol for hypotenuse ? or do we not know this exists.
asciilifeform: they were not trying to build 5,000-story towers!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you will note THEY ALSO DID NOT NEED TO.
asciilifeform: no symbol because the greeks were not averse to actually drawing the triangle.
asciilifeform: but go and draw a hilbert space.
mircea_popescu: don't idly suppose you're better than the greeks just because you have more maggots eating more cans of spam.
asciilifeform: me - no. gauss - motherfucking yes.
mircea_popescu: gauss wrote his shit out. review the notes.
mircea_popescu: so did newton. so did all of them. so did fucking feynman which is WHY youadmire him
mircea_popescu: not coincidental to the admiration, but integral.
asciilifeform: feynman used standard mathematical notation.
asciilifeform: and yes, explained the basics, he was a teacher !
mircea_popescu: he reads it out half the fucking time
asciilifeform: but note that he did not try 'let's use only ascii for all of mathematics'
mircea_popescu: the difference between a thinking man and a hack is that a hack goes "hey, i can't explain this without a blackboard"
mircea_popescu: he did, yes, but i won't count it because at his time (40s) he had no other options.
asciilifeform: he had the option of typesetting on a 'selectric' and having that go straight to press
mircea_popescu: his work, on the machines, is actually quite lispy. in the ONLY UPPERCASE EXISTS sense of lispy
asciilifeform: as many poor profs did
mircea_popescu: he was an actual researcher.
mircea_popescu: had to run the machines to do things.
asciilifeform: incidentally, serious researchers often ended up doing the selectric-to-web-press thing, on account of sheer hurry
asciilifeform: BUT if the product was any good, it always got redone and typeset properly
asciilifeform: i wouldn't buy an ascii-art edition of feynman.
mircea_popescu: so let it be said : that alphabet can NAME way more things than your symbolics can ever dream to represent. and for that matter, that from the multi-millenarian history of world culture, alphabetic notation does indeed convey richer, more numerous ideas in less space than hyeroglypghics do. which is why we fucked the chinese, and why egypt is muslim now.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> BUT if the product was any good, it always got redone and typeset properly << "if the product were any good it was always mass produced". hurr.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: alphabet != 26 idiot letters
asciilifeform: and most cultures were mathematically zeroes.
asciilifeform: until some folks broke free of the must-verbalize crapolade.
mircea_popescu: looky : neither the egyptians nor the greeks were mathematically zeroes.
mircea_popescu: the alphabetic greeks overtook the hyeroglyphic egyptioans. for this reason and this alone.
mircea_popescu: mujch in the manner europe overtook china.
asciilifeform: i get it, there is a fashion in the derp army of going around and 'i'm a visual thinker!11111'. this changes nothing. there are napoleons in your local loony bin, does not change the historic fact of napoleon.
mircea_popescu: only 2000 years earlier.
mircea_popescu: but so far we doth not even agree on the historical facts
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neither had effective long division.
mircea_popescu: the greeks had pi.
asciilifeform: ~on account of notation~, yes.
mircea_popescu: the egyptians had... unusable pi.
asciilifeform: go sail atlantic with pi.
mircea_popescu: long division bitch!
mircea_popescu: words have meanings!
mircea_popescu: even if symbols don't.
asciilifeform bbl, must meet the party's five-year plan
mircea_popescu: "the square of the length of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the square of the catheti", for the curious. kids the world over (in those places with an actual culture, as opposed to hunter-gatherer societies of primitives) actually learn this by heart, and it's one of the first steps on the stair they ever meet.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski actually speaking of pankkake, he did resolve http://trilema.com/2014/test-de-cultura-termodinamica/#comment-104245
assbot: Test de cultura termodinamica on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kb0zvM )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00049855 = 6.7554 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14077 @ 0.00049819 = 7.013 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367833 << i can't discern which side you're taking.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 05:28:22; trinque: why create syntactic barriers to understanding when you can just kill the folks you don't want in your math club, anyway
mircea_popescu: do you mean "this" manner, as in the latter ? or actually "that" manner, as in the former.
mircea_popescu: "f course, a full charge won't be that important most days," << god fucking help them once memory effects and other such things start taking a toll. the full prospect should read " As previously announced, the Bolt's 288 cells will be able to go over 200 miles on a full charge about 20 or so times. Good fucking luck with your new disposable car!"
mircea_popescu: but hey, it ain't fraud if usg does it, right ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367845 << i don't hate the unicode folk. i hate the notion that we'd include all this in the first place. once we decide "we need it", i'd actually prefer unicode to any adhoc herpderping.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 05:51:38; punkman: even if you hate the Unicode folks, they have actually codified a lot of these things and it mostly seems to work
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 06:02:19; pete_dushenski: some fat needs to be trimmed around here, whether that idjits going back to wherever the fuck they came from (ftr no one is "from" alberta) or they can learn that business isn't this thing where money and clients rain down from the sky and it's all you can do to beat them back at the door
mircea_popescu: "i know... we'll offshore everything to china and live off a '''service economy'''. then we won't bother getting off the couch. win-win!"
mircea_popescu: lol ben_vulpes that shit is so retarded.
mircea_popescu: why even bother with the phone after that ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00049855 = 7.5281 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367880 << eh gtfo. if the police shows up and does anything above and beyond fining the shop for spurious call they're remiss.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 06:12:11; BingoBoingo: https://i.sli.mg/U6151s.jpg
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367895 << o hey check it out, you aspire to be me!
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 06:18:05; ben_vulpes: my personal phone goal is an engineering team that is on call so that i don't have to have a phone
mircea_popescu: "Amanda Peacher @amandapeacher · 11h11 hours ago Burns mayor to Bundys: "Our community does not want you here." Big applause. #Oregonstandoff111 retweets 118 likes " "Amanda Peacher @amandapeacher · 11h11 hours ago Packed house for tonight's community mtg in Burns about the #Oregonstandoff. " << yeah, i'm sure it was packed. all with http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366965
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 19:04:25; mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/0A0WRTM << there, consider that.
mircea_popescu: i have absolutely no idea what these bundy dudes must be thinking to elevate the usg charade into relevancy through participating. but then again... can't trust one to think that's not got a pubkey, can you.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 07:01:02; Tomiii: Hello, does anyone know how you make a bunch of GPG private keys from a single Seed? like you can do with bitcon wallet?
mircea_popescu: "In connection with the offer of the above securities, the Stabilising Manager(s) may over-allot the securities or effect transactions with a view to supporting the market price of the securities at a level higher than that which might otherwise prevail. "
mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: "we're into fraud!"
mircea_popescu: !rated tomiii
assbot: tomiii is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367960 << a board meeting decided to make the qntra good.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 07:38:29; ben_vulpes: jokes through the roof
shinohai: !gettrust Tomii
assbot: Tomii is not registered in WoT.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00050587 = 1.8717 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7187 @ 0.0005072 = 3.6452 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00050413 = 6.9066 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.00050661 = 1.4438 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: am i missing something ?
punkman: probably not
assbot: ssbc/docs · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1mSPKsI )
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: 'For private sharing, Scuttlebot uses libsodium to encrypt confidential log-entries.'
ascii_butugychag: ahahahaha
ascii_butugychag: betcha there will be 1,001 usg gossipd.
ascii_butugychag: the folks writing those, are not doing it on the train to/from day job.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying "women doing a shitty job fucking are doing it in the bedroom"
mircea_popescu: yes, they are.
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368044 << i would much like to attend a concert hall directed by mircea_popescu. understand, just to watch the faces of the musicians when they open their scores and discover, instead of musical notation, 'do re mi.....' x 100,001 !1
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 13:33:54; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367845 << i don't hate the unicode folk. i hate the notion that we'd include all this in the first place. once we decide "we need it", i'd actually prefer unicode to any adhoc herpderping.
mircea_popescu: !up psztorc
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i direct my concers by frowning.
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368042 << li poly batt. has no memory effect. but what it does have is rapid cycle wear (and evens shelf rot)
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 13:32:43; mircea_popescu: "f course, a full charge won't be that important most days," << god fucking help them once memory effects and other such things start taking a toll. the full prospect should read " As previously announced, the Bolt's 288 cells will be able to go over 200 miles on a full charge about 20 or so times. Good fucking luck with your new disposable car!"
mircea_popescu: and if ytou think anyone reads those fucking things while being directed...
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: l0l!11
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 13:58:38; mircea_popescu: i have absolutely no idea what these bundy dudes must be thinking to elevate the usg charade into relevancy through participating. but then again... can't trust one to think that's not got a pubkey, can you.
ascii_butugychag: no pubkey? no soul.
mircea_popescu: "the lord doesn't know of you"
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368063 << wai wut?! srsly? just like that, public confession ?
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 14:01:05; mircea_popescu: "In connection with the offer of the above securities, the Stabilising Manager(s) may over-allot the securities or effect transactions with a view to supporting the market price of the securities at a level higher than that which might otherwise prevail. "
ascii_butugychag: no amount of 'will!11111', virility, non-pencildickery, counts for ~shit~ if you have no soul. beasts of the motherfucking field, the lot of'em.
ascii_butugychag: wild boar builds nothing.
ascii_butugychag: (he has the virtue of not building towers of own shit, like farm swine, but that's the beginning and end of it)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3712 @ 0.00050653 = 1.8802 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50038 @ 0.00050119 = 25.0785 BTC [-] {4}
adlai: clef notation is worse than useless, because it sparks endless bikeshedding about whether E sharp "ever is or could be equal to" F
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> in case its not clear BingoBoingo i'm a fan of your work << ty ben_vulpes
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368096 << fwiw this is how movie scores are recorded
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:33:39; mircea_popescu: and if ytou think anyone reads those fucking things while being directed...
adlai: the highest per-minute income for a serious 'session musician' is their sightreading ability
adlai: bonus points if they can sight-transpose... triple bonus if they can do it in the direction unnatural for their instrument's historic bias
adlai: eg, ask a trumpet player to transpose to G sharp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14999 @ 0.00050364 = 7.5541 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: !up ascii_butugychag
thestringpuller: Live from the labor camp as wild asciilifeform appears.
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368109 << adlai is a concert musician ? plays music from a score every day of the week ?
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:48:30; adlai: clef notation is worse than useless, because it sparks endless bikeshedding about whether E sharp "ever is or could be equal to" F
ascii_butugychag: or simply derping about, prescribing tools for folks who actually ~do~, as if proposing stalls for cattle ?
thestringpuller: LOL ascii_butugychag sounds like my piano teacher! (who is also russian). "Who needs score? Play jazz learn from memory"
ascii_butugychag: who needs the piano
ascii_butugychag: play in the air.
ascii_butugychag: play own arse, fart
thestringpuller: from my studies, I thought that jazz musicians routinely passed down songs via audition rather than sight (via score).
psztorc: So, "bitcoin classic", with a 2 MB blocksize limit, is likely to have >60% hashrate at this time tomorrow.
psztorc: Very interesting that you are talking about music theory.
thestringpuller: it wasn't until someone was bored enough to write the thing down that you got Fake Books and stuff of the "American Song Book"
adlai has probably spent more hours playing music than writing lisp, although the trends seem headed for a reversal in a couple years
assbot: The Hard Fork Missile Crisis | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7GSpQ )
adlai: thestringpuller: compare to shakuhachi tradition, where a song isn't "yours" until you've a) tweaked out your own version, and b) taught it to your students
psztorc: I've read it, of course.
psztorc: I just expected something a little more dramatic, I guess.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> << li poly batt. has no memory effect. but what it does have is rapid cycle wear (and evens shelf rot) << /me seriously interested on data on catalytic caps for FeNi batteries, for 2025 wizard tower
ascii_butugychag: psztorc: 'dramatic' is not when the rockets go up, but when they come down.
psztorc: Maybe they're very quiet when they take off.
psztorc: : )
thestringpuller: i can confirm from my experience with kerbal space program, it's much more dramatic reentering the atmospher than leaving it
assbot: ISIS burns fighters alive for letting Ramadi fall | Fox News ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONxbRB )
BingoBoingo: <psztorc> So, "bitcoin classic", with a 2 MB blocksize limit, is likely to have >60% hashrate at this time tomorrow. << Where does this spz come from? I just woke up.
psztorc: According to a reliable friend, they already have 40% committed, and according to a different friend, the Chinese miners will agree to join the 40%.
adlai: psztorc: i'm more interested in measuring the seismic trembles as miners agonize over raising their soft limit past 1MB... ie, being the guinea pig that expends their own hashpower-hours to verify whether or not it's all a fluffy bluff
ascii_butugychag: не шагу назад (тм) (р)
adlai: !up psztorc
assbot: Bitcoin Classic ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7IjEK )
BingoBoingo: psztorc: Mebbe this reliable friend would be interested in an interview?
adlai: "hard limit" = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE === "I don't accept a block larger than X", soft limit = relevant only for miners === "I produce blocks up to X"
assbot: Operativo "Cisne negro". - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7Ipw5 )
psztorc: I am aware of the relative lack-of-influence of miners in this case.
punkman: o hey there's gavin in dev list
psztorc: I bring it up because it is in contrast to XT, which no one really liked.
mats: alleged raid against 'el chapo'
psztorc: This has two larges exchanges as well.
shinohai: Goddamnit, can Gavin Andresen make up his mind what he wants?
adlai should maybe have used Y for the soft limit example; these are different parameters, and until miners start wasting their own money to back up these claims, the claims might as well be plaintext on a webpage for all Bitcoin cares
mats: 1/10 breach
ascii_butugychag: folks who want to convert their btc into a usg-alt that mircea_popescu will sell 1,000,000 of for a penny each the day of the phork, can go ahead any time...
ascii_butugychag: (see the 'missile' essay)
psztorc: BingoBoingo: you see, that's the thing when it comes to death threats, though.
adlai: psztorc: out of curiosity, did anything ever come of plans to build a market for exchanging such coins? rather than manually arbitraging between businesses on either side
ascii_butugychag: adlai: there is no shortage of places to trade crackpot alts
ascii_butugychag: what's one more.
psztorc: The plan was to rush out a tiny version of Truthcoin/Hivemind , now I'm just going to wait for the full thing to be done.
psztorc: This one let you exchange the coins, *before* the fork actually split them into two Altcoins.
adlai: ascii_butugychag: you can run bitcoind and forkcoind, and automate https://github.com/TierNolan/bips/blob/bip4x/bip-atom.mediawiki between them... if only anybody wrote the glue for this. for some reason I thought psztorc was working on this, but can't find the github repo
assbot: bips/bip-atom.mediawiki at bip4x · TierNolan/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONy9xk )
ascii_butugychag: psztorc: before the split, the alt does not exist in any sense
adlai: mircea_popescu doesn't own woodcoin, either.
adlai: but funkenstein_ is holding some for him, if that altchain even exists outside of his computer
psztorc: They were essentially synthetic futures on each coin, denominated in fiat.
assbot: The Win-Win Blocksize Solution | Truthcoin: Making Cheap Talk Expensive ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONyiRv )
adlai: psztorc: the problem with basing this rather-necessary tool on TC/HM is that the latter doesn't exist yet...
psztorc: I know, that's why I proposed rushing out a very very simple version which outright relied on multisig for the 2-way-peg and the price-oracle input.
adlai: bitcoind, forkcoind, and various young/crippled bip4x implementations - do
psztorc: I asked for help / support / feedback ... got zero.
adlai: eg - https://github.com/mappum/mercury if you can stomach the java
assbot: mappum/mercury · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7KfNz )
ascii_butugychag: psztorc: you can market shares in own farts, if you feel like it
ascii_butugychag: good luck finding buyers.
psztorc: So I just shelved it...unlike TC/HM, the watered-down version required some community buy-in, so I knew it was DoA.
BingoBoingo: psztorc: You have to understand A-flat minor is best key, and this drama is all about Gavin's diminishing ability to see his penis
psztorc: ascii_butugychag: What exactly are you talking about?
ascii_butugychag: the arbitrage thing
psztorc: What about it?
ascii_butugychag: !s protocol promise
assbot: 15 results for 'protocol promise' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=protocol+promise
assbot: Wassenaar: Cybersecurity and Export Control - United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONyK2b )
adlai: there's no a-priori reason why fork proponents can't stake their reputation on pgp-signed contracts to buy up their alt after it's launch... reminscent of the $20 XPY floor
ascii_butugychag: adlai: ask mircea_popescu to write one up for you, if you need this
adlai: psztorc: have you considered asking fork proponents to help build such a market? i think the antifork crowd are more content to take a more patient role in this game of chicken, because the "burden of forking" is on the other camp
adlai only trades altcoins in the middle clef
psztorc: adlai: Well, who would I ask?
ascii_butugychag: mats: didja get in line for jail yet ?
ascii_butugychag: mats: i hear they give priority to applicants who give a shit
psztorc: Instead, I'm just going to finish my own project.
psztorc: As slowly as it takes.
mats: i wonder sometimes what prison would be like
adlai: psztorc: at the top of my push-down stack of Bitcoin forkists are all the names listed on https://bitcoinclassic.com/
assbot: Bitcoin Classic ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7IjEK )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9256 @ 0.0005016 = 4.6428 BTC [-]
psztorc: Well, that's the news, so to speak.
mats: i think i would enjoy it, at least a little bit
psztorc: I will be lurking about, wrt 2 MB blocksize fork.
psztorc: See ya later.
thestringpuller: the forkers think it's all fun and games until an ecological disaster occurs. then who is expected to clean it up?
deedbot-: [Qntra] Another One Bites The Dust: Cryptsy Edition - http://qntra.net/2016/01/another-one-bites-the-dust-cryptsy-edition/
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: the vultures will clean up.
thestringpuller: so we have to live in vaults because some fucker wants to launch a nuke cause "hey this will fix the world!111"
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:37:02; ascii_butugychag: (he has the virtue of not building towers of own shit, like farm swine, but that's the beginning and end of it)
thestringpuller: !up ascii_butugychag
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:48:30; adlai: clef notation is worse than useless, because it sparks endless bikeshedding about whether E sharp "ever is or could be equal to" F
mircea_popescu: musical notation is a joke to pretty much every serrious musician. it is a "pons asinorum" of sorts and not much else
mircea_popescu: you have to "interpret" and "read it with feeling" and" this isn't what liszt meant" and bla bla.
mircea_popescu: it's only there like the clothes are there on woman : to make conversation.
adlai envisions an aging mircea_popescu, tired of 'systems analysis', finding his final calling with the shakuhachi. (it's also quite good for spanking)
mircea_popescu: i actually broke a bone flute on a flesh ass.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368128 << quite common actually, yes. chiefly because jazz is a lot more into the whole color and interpretation thing.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:57:00; thestringpuller: from my studies, I thought that jazz musicians routinely passed down songs via audition rather than sight (via score).
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368129 |<< this isn't going to be like the "miners vote to uncontroversial softfork, oops forgot to actually implement it" debacle is it ?
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:57:11; psztorc: So, "bitcoin classic", with a 2 MB blocksize limit, is likely to have >60% hashrate at this time tomorrow.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, look which degenerate gambler is ready to lose other people's money again https://archive.is/qBHnW
assbot: KLYEMAX.COM – Crypto Webcam Exchange - Open Beta : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONA3Ou )
mircea_popescu: ahahaha (p) that rocks
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368158 << you must have forgotten january 2015 when "consensus" and "nobody really opposes this" and bla bla.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 17:05:10; psztorc: I bring it up because it is in contrast to XT, which no one really liked.
BingoBoingo: Lots of noiseholes loved XT at first
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 17:08:33; adlai: psztorc: out of curiosity, did anything ever come of plans to build a market for exchanging such coins? rather than manually arbitraging between businesses on either side
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo there's no end of these "bitcoin experts" who have weekly opinions and who are to be taken seriously provided you don't examine anything past last week.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I need to know for the jokes!!!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368166 << if you imagine interviews is what protects dangerous idiots from decapitation you're off a different planet already.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 17:07:24; psztorc: BingoBoingo: you see, that's the thing when it comes to death threats, though.
BingoBoingo sharpens soldering iron
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368177 << supposedly there is a chain. i never personally checked.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 17:11:33; adlai: but funkenstein_ is holding some for him, if that altchain even exists outside of his computer
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 17:13:25; psztorc: I asked for help / support / feedback ... got zero.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368198 << well, none other than the obvious reason, at any rate.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 17:16:36; adlai: there's no a-priori reason why fork proponents can't stake their reputation on pgp-signed contracts to buy up their alt after it's launch... reminscent of the $20 XPY floor
mircea_popescu: idea men everywhere.
mircea_popescu: lol bitcoinclassic.
mircea_popescu: derps so fucking desperately need moar brandings and things. plox to make a website. with the cssen
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/bHGp3 << o look at that, the new-xt bs no longer has hearn ?
assbot: Bitcoin Classic ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7PA7E )
BingoBoingo: Hearnia is bad for optics
mircea_popescu: anyway. this bullshit won't be either mined or relayed by trb.
mircea_popescu: they're more than free to make their own altcoin, like everyhone else throughout the years. glhf and all that.
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea what they imagine this will do. suppose 90% of the miners move over. i will not honor any of their payments, not on mpex, not on bitbet, not anywhere else. that's the whole market.
shinohai needs to review last night's logs for more info on trb mining pool possibility
mircea_popescu: meanwhile i will continue to honor payments on the actual bitcoin chain.
mircea_popescu: so basically the renegade miners that got scammed into mining a fork got all the mining competition and none of the benefits.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the loyal miners get 10x easier coins.
mircea_popescu: i don't see who minds this ? go right ahead!
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: speaking of crackpot ideas, re: your pool: how about ~preferring~ high-S ?
mircea_popescu: eh, i dunno if you recall the discussion at the time, but anyway. i am not really THAT against that soft fork, because like it or not this situation with ambiguous s-ness is not so good.
mircea_popescu: certainly not against it enough to precipitate a chainwar
ascii_butugychag: but would conveniently drive an additional nail into the enemy's skull
mircea_popescu: yes but i'm not a bloodthirsty orc. not just yet at any rate.
ascii_butugychag: i mean, the present situation is icky
ascii_butugychag: when i issue a tx, 50% chance it never gets in a block
mircea_popescu: anyway, if the toomims take thgeir fake hashpower to this thing it'll be a perfect exit for that set of scammers and good riddance.
ascii_butugychag: or what, some time next year ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, but it costs ~nothing to make it be low-S
mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 was considering a trb patch
ascii_butugychag: it costs patching
ascii_butugychag: and surrendering on the declaration
ascii_butugychag: bowing to the enemy
ascii_butugychag: 'softfork'ism
mircea_popescu: eh, bowing to reality.
mircea_popescu: not every inconvenience is good enough to call out the troops.
mircea_popescu: troops also got their own land to plow.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> anyway, if the toomims take thgeir fake hashpower to this thing it'll be a perfect exit for that set of scammers and good riddance. << I alway thought the Toomims hashpower was real? Who claiming fake hashpower would claim so little?
ascii_butugychag: why not preferentially mine the high-S ?
ascii_butugychag: betcha the pool would instantly fill with trb folk
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the fake is in the "their".
mircea_popescu: but anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15004 @ 0.00049818 = 7.4747 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag if we do force a longer chain which breaks that softfork we HAVE to also steal all their money.
ascii_butugychag: how would that work?
mircea_popescu: that we'll doublespend all the txn that they see as conformant, and then impose the longer chain with the doublespends.
ascii_butugychag: double-spend?
mircea_popescu: it kills a lot of people.
ascii_butugychag: do they need to live ?
mircea_popescu: yes, well, let's pace ourselves.
adlai: for purposes of log completeness, since this took way too long to dig up: Olin Shivers's preamble on hundred percent vs eighty percent solutions: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/papers/sre.txt
adlai: (might even be worth a deeding?)
mircea_popescu: by olin himself.
ascii_butugychag: adlai: mega-classic
adlai waits for the man to show up
adlai: ascii_butugychag: agreed, but for such a mega-classic, it's unbearably un-googleable. anything about "80/100% solutions" (spelled however you like) turns up corporations priding themselves in the quick, dirty, and incomplete.
adlai found it by sifting r^Nrs authors for the familiar name, then sifting his bibliography
ascii_butugychag: ;;google olin shivers sre
gribble: The SRE regular-expression notation: <http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/papers/sre.txt>; Technical Bibliography - College of Computer and Information Science: <http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/citations.html>; Olin Shivers - College of Computer and Information Science: <http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/cv.pdf>
ascii_butugychag: ^ works!111
adlai: provided you know which manual has this preamble, sure.
adlai doesn't actually care much for regex
BingoBoingo: adlai: What about the stripper ReggieX
adlai: you may need to recalibrate your tokenizer's fuzzyness
mircea_popescu: "Unfortunately, his quickly-built socket interface isn't general. It just
mircea_popescu: covers the bits this particular hacker needed for his applications. So the
mircea_popescu: next guy that comes along and needs a socket interface can't use this one.
mircea_popescu: Not only does it lack coverage, but the deep structure wasn't thought out well
mircea_popescu: enough to allow for quality extension. So *he* does his *own* 80%
mircea_popescu: implementation. Five hackers later, five different, incompatible, ungeneral
mircea_popescu: implementations had been built. No one can use each others code."
mircea_popescu: no you don't udnerstand because the specification is the code.
mircea_popescu: !up punindented
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.0005016 = 9.6809 BTC [+]
ascii_butugychag: !s bipolar lisp
assbot: 0 results for 'bipolar lisp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bipolar+lisp
assbot: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7SLvV )
ascii_butugychag: ^ as described here.
ascii_butugychag: (psychopathology of foss, etc)
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point oshivers' not aware of is that THE ONLY way to have 100% solutions is with the power of the wot as deployed by b-a
mircea_popescu: with sole persons responsible, and with al lthat.
adlai: fwiw my latest go-to answer to "but why did you use lisp?" is that it lets me optimize for programmer lazyness. (this predates http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-01-2016#1365687 by ~10 months)
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 00:40:01; mircea_popescu: i think i'ma just use adlai to denote lazy from now on.
mircea_popescu: they try to hack it togetgher with bs like the internet taskforce "we believe in rough consensus and working code", but it's structurally nonsense. the only reason it sort-of appeared to work was because it was unwittingly implementing some wot/ba features.
mircea_popescu: such as a backflow of "your shit is broken/down/fuck you"
adlai: !up ascii_butugychag
adlai: what features did wot/ba have before its parents were born?
mircea_popescu: im not sure i understand the question
assbot: amasamy_teishos ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7Trl7 )
adlai: meh, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_face is a better tl;dr i guess.
assbot: Original face - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7TAF2 )
mircea_popescu: "The right thing to do was to carefully implement one, common base mode for process interaction, and to carefully put in hooks for customising this base mode into language-specific modes" << and in today's installement of intelligence is no defense from stupidity news, "if you tried wrestling with a wild pig in some mud you found in the forrest and got raped, the correct thing is to buy some earth from the supermarket,
mircea_popescu: water it carefully from your own sink and grow your own pig".
ascii_butugychag: hey my pig is growing by the hour!111
ascii_butugychag: snout already protrudes from the pot
mircea_popescu: clearly yhou are set for greatness
assbot: Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2PMPPY2.txt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10950 @ 0.00050089 = 5.4847 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Any lecturer who serves his time will probably graduate hundreds, if not thousands of students. Mostly they merge into a blur; like those paintings of crowd scenes where the leading faces are clearly picked out and the rest just have iconic representations. This anonymity can be embarrassing when some past student hails you by name and you really haven't got the foggiest idea of who he or she is. It's both nice to
mircea_popescu: be remembered and also toe curlingly embarrassing to admit that you cannot recognise who you are talking to."
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry... what ?
mircea_popescu: da fuck is embarassing about this ? i say "i'm sorry, who are you again ?" a dozen times a day, if it's a day i mostly sleep.
mircea_popescu: http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/bipolar.htm << nice writing, and in more than one way. ascii_butugychag dja happen to recognize the very plain, alphabetic notation employed ? :D
assbot: The Bipolar Lisp Programmer ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7SLvV )
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: not a maths piece
ascii_butugychag: and this is tarver
ascii_butugychag: !s tarver
assbot: 8 results for 'tarver' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tarver
mircea_popescu: nevertheless :D
ascii_butugychag: iirc we had a few tarver threadz
mircea_popescu: (fwiw, /me doesn't even recognise such distinction can be had)
mircea_popescu: can not read this man and not love him.
mircea_popescu: "Now one of the things about Lisp, and I've seen it before, is that Lisp is a real magnet for this kind of mind. " check it out, he ... carefully put in the hook for language specific http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-01-2016#1366854
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 17:58:22; mircea_popescu: it is also fundamentally why math "is hard". for every non-retarded young adult who believes math is hard you have a case of a child who developed his own, highly personal set of shitty symbols, and then never received a good explanation as to what the difference between his and "everyone else"'s is, so got lost.
BingoBoingo is just giving words away to qntra shareholders right now. Fucking footnoting inside a blockquote.
adlai: !up ascii_butugychag
adlai: BingoBoingo: you qntring "btc classic"?
BingoBoingo: Decline to comment at this time
adlai off to rosenfeld chess'n'bullshit emporium, leaves scoopworms to earlier birds
mircea_popescu: and in the endless lulz, https://archive.is/ZTfo5
mircea_popescu: "hey, maybe i'm not really fat!!1"
BingoBoingo: NO gavin, you still can't see your penis without a mirror!
kakobrekla: ;;later tell asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/155WRJA.txt
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: "Bitonic has sold over 200 000 bitcoins and is celebrating by giving away one bitcoin! PART 4"
mircea_popescu: ahahaha.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.0005016 = 8.9285 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "The largest criticisms of Symbolics in the article are that Symbolics believed AI would take off and that Symbolics mistakenly pushed its view that proprietary hardware was the way to go for AI."
mircea_popescu: bwahaha. symbolics - wanted to be ms, got raped.
mircea_popescu: there's no engineering brilliance that may excuse that, is there.
mircea_popescu: "And outside the US there were major Lisp efforts, including Cambridge Lisp and Le-Lisp. The humble US grassroots effort did not seek membership from outside the US, and one can safely regard that as a mistake. Frankly, it never occurred to the Common Lisp group that this purely American effort would be of interest outside the US, because very few of the group saw a future in AI that would extend the needs for a standa
mircea_popescu: rd Lisp beyond North America."
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368376 <<< grasping at straws now or appeal to authority ?
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 18:37:55; mircea_popescu: and in the endless lulz, https://archive.is/ZTfo5
mircea_popescu: i dunno, by now they're self-parodic.
mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/40lzdm/rich_bankers_paying_expensive_tickets_for/ << "most expensive ever saw". because actual bitcoin conferences in timisoara, b-a etc never happened.
assbot: Rich bankers paying expensive tickets for Blockchain London Con : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1RkfifB )
mircea_popescu: le derp.
shinohai: Maybe Gavin can get them seat on the jet.
mircea_popescu: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2016/01/11#l1452496750.0 << in other news, what scant remains is left of #power-rangers are moving into a "actual improvements" phase.
assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1RkfH1E )
mircea_popescu: bluematt left, apparently. which brings the bipedal count to ~0
mircea_popescu: i'd have much preferred it if that quote read "had we done what mp said we shoudl do the first time he called us idiots back in 2013, we'd now be in a position where we could almost pass for human"
mircea_popescu: but hey, bovines bloviate, what's to be expected.
mircea_popescu: aaanyway.
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368387 << mno. for one thing, microshit was not yet itself
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 18:48:43; mircea_popescu: bwahaha. symbolics - wanted to be ms, got raped.
ascii_butugychag: it wanted to be.... varian.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00050161 = 7.8 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: whether the rat existed yet or not, they still aspired to be a rat.
BingoBoingo: ;;google Ahmed Bodiwala
gribble: Ahmed Bodiwala (@CryptoExpert) | Twitter: <https://twitter.com/cryptoexpert>; ahmedbodi · GitHub: <https://github.com/ahmedbodi>; The Arscoin rollout, through the eyes of the server administrators ...: <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/the-arscoin-rollout-through-the-eyes-of-the-server-administrators/>
mircea_popescu is quite glad it blew up, actually.
mircea_popescu: last fucking thing the world of today needed would be some unfucked & unfuckable, nose-in-the-sky self sufficient engineer derps with delusions of success.
mircea_popescu: "oh we know shit" etc.
mircea_popescu: at least the usg, from the president to the last goon, knows they're sitting on a prayer
mircea_popescu: and that they're wrong, and unloved.
mircea_popescu: but most importantly - wrong.
ascii_butugychag: thing is, these were not pc
ascii_butugychag: they were heavy industrial equipment.
ascii_butugychag: hence - varian.
ascii_butugychag: (example)
ascii_butugychag: caterpillar.
ascii_butugychag: if you like.
mircea_popescu: only reason those are excused is because ancient tradition. otherwise, caterpillar as loathsome as john deere as loathsome as monsanto as loathsome as mpaa
ascii_butugychag: whereas imagine, caterpillar is dead, and now we have only shovels.
mircea_popescu: no, we have city-run stell mill like the city power network,
mircea_popescu: and a flurry of various machien making machines.
mircea_popescu: fuck caterpillar. and boeing. and the whole fucking rest of them.
ascii_butugychag: if mircea_popescu imagines that his gateway to the bowels of hell will be dug by six dudes with shovels, he is smoking something strong.
mircea_popescu: grey goop!
mircea_popescu: "C is therefore a language for which it is easy to write a decent compiler"
mircea_popescu: ahaha I~~~ am the one smoking something strong ?
mircea_popescu: what about gabriel!
mircea_popescu: fucking c compiler's not yet been written.
ascii_butugychag: fuck boeing << what does mircea_popescu fly on ? a Junkers ?
mircea_popescu: fuck boeing nevertheless. i do not wish to even hear of bullshit "airport" to have "tsa" at.
mircea_popescu: private jets all the way. private helicopters, cessnas, fuck it.
mircea_popescu: i want to have more landing locations than existing aircraft.
mircea_popescu: houses don't need a fucking pool
mircea_popescu: they need a runway.
mircea_popescu: bitch can cool herself in the basement.
ascii_butugychag: the megastate didn't end up with air superiority because of the gods' whim, though
ascii_butugychag: it follows from orwell's theorem
mircea_popescu: fuck orwell too.
ascii_butugychag: 'sovereignty is the ability to manufacture airplane in large numbers'
mircea_popescu: forget this. no more centralized manufacturing of anything.
ascii_butugychag: yes, but ~with what~ do you intend to fuck him
ascii_butugychag: shoot down usg fighters with pure mind rays ?
ascii_butugychag: at least tesla had an idea of what this has to be
mircea_popescu: nope, shoot them down with the same rays usa shot down soviet strategic bombers
mircea_popescu: bankruptcy ray.
mircea_popescu: a little bit of internal unrest ray too.
mircea_popescu: best ray to date, as far as the military records go.
punkman: "a flurry of various machine making machines." "houses don't need a fucking pool, they need a runway." << I love futuristic-mp
mircea_popescu: as someone once said, "their tricks work for them only a short distance of their run, and for us the whole run."
ascii_butugychag: must be great being an immortal demigod
mircea_popescu: i got promoted ?
ascii_butugychag: never need to kill anybody, just wait for'em to die
mircea_popescu: just as long as i get my death certificates.
BingoBoingo awaits mircea_popescu paying out bounties to Unilever for the death of his enemies.
mircea_popescu: all the talk neglects to notice how teh usg is force to try and replace cars - autonomous for 1500 miles - with rubber band machines, autonomous for maybe 50. at GREAT expense.
mircea_popescu: why do they need that, one would wonder ?
mircea_popescu: fuck that. airplanes, 3k miles, etc.
mircea_popescu: "sovereignity is the ability to convince lazy idiots that symbols have meaning".
deedbot-: [Qntra] Gavin and Toomim Present: "Classic" Another Hard Fork Risk - http://qntra.net/2016/01/gavin-and-toomim-present-classic-another-hard-fork-risk/
BingoBoingo: !up punindented
mircea_popescu: let's consider the following bit of clisp guts :
mircea_popescu: 2.2.1 Bad Declarations
mircea_popescu: This example is a mistake that is easy to make. The programmer here did not declare his arrays as fully as he could have. Therefore, each array access was about as slow as a function call when it should have been a few instructions. The original declaration was as follows:
mircea_popescu: (proclaim '(type (array fixnum *) *ar1* *ar2* *ar3*))
mircea_popescu: The three arrays happen to be of fixed size, which is reflected in the following correct declaration:
mircea_popescu: (proclaim '(type (simple-array fixnum (4)) *ar1*))
mircea_popescu: (proclaim '(type (simple-array fixnum (4 4)) *ar2*))
mircea_popescu: (proclaim '(type (simple-array fixnum (4 4 4)) *ar3*))
mircea_popescu: are you seriously going to tell me that the compiler fails to identify this optimization ?!
mircea_popescu: "Altering the faulty declaration improved the performance of the entire system by 20%." << umm... go hang ?
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00050179 = 6.2724 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell psztorc thank you for enriching my morning lulz
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: "There is no reason that a programmer should know that this rewrite is needed. On the other hand, finding that performance was not as expected should not have led the manager of the programmer in question to conclude, as he did, that Lisp was the wrong language." ahaha what ?!
mircea_popescu aborts this with an unspecified error code.
PeterL: <mircea_popescu> houses don't need a fucking pool
PeterL: * <mircea_popescu> they need a runway. << Why not both?
mircea_popescu: just making a rhetorical point
mircea_popescu: they can have a kennel for all i care.
PeterL: https://www.rt.com/news/266872-afalina-helicopter-cheapest-russia/ << and now everybody can switch to helicopter instead of car
assbot: Meet Afalina: Russian manufacturer reveals the world’s cheapest helicopter (VIDEO) — RT News ... ( http://bit.ly/1N5zIBj )
mircea_popescu: i briefly considered a two seater thing a few years back
mircea_popescu: it was actuallyt about ~same as a car.
punkman: can't fit many girls in two seater
mircea_popescu: also flying a 1/4 ton thing is a little iffy.
mircea_popescu: kinda like sailing in a nut shell
mircea_popescu: (flying a fixed wing is similar, except the arrangement has signigicant - if not gravitational - inertia. a tiny heli does not.)
mircea_popescu: or how do you call those things... deltaplan ?
mircea_popescu: hang glider ?
punkman: I kinda liked this one, also lands on water http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-01-2016#1361483
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368478 << the sole purpose of 'proclaim' is to hand-optimize where the compiler cannot SAFELY do it
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 19:40:10; mircea_popescu: are you seriously going to tell me that the compiler fails to identify this optimization ?!
assbot: CLHS: Function PROCLAIM ... ( http://bit.ly/1N5AG0p )
ascii_butugychag: cl is not, e.g., haskell, does not attempt mechanical type inference
ascii_butugychag: deltaplan, not boeing.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 19:44:32; mircea_popescu: it was actuallyt about ~same as a car.
PeterL: back to the topic of alphabet, alchemists/early chemists came up with wacky symbols for all the elements, thankfully somebody got smart and switched to alphabetic symbols instead.
ascii_butugychag: what's the point ? rooftop escapes ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag ah ok
mircea_popescu: PeterL you don't say.
PeterL: helicopter can go faster than car, more direct route
ascii_butugychag: if yours is the only one in town - sure
mircea_popescu: up until you run into some headwind.
ascii_butugychag: or traffic.
mircea_popescu: traffic isn't so big a problem - easeir to make autoflown heli than car.
ascii_butugychag: mno. ground effect.
ascii_butugychag: ever fly a toy heli ?
PeterL: what traffic, aren't we killing off 90% of population?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: yeah but the remaining folk all have dirigibles
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag let's see... anywehre you go, there's a ~1k lane highway available. and it's on ~ 50 or 100 levels. so 50k lanes at a minimum. what fucking traffic.
mircea_popescu: not to mention heli brakes easier than any car.
PeterL: heli breaks easier than car?
mircea_popescu: well of course. you can just plug the power backwards, who's to know.
mircea_popescu: if you're doing 10kN forward, you can within 2-3 seconds do 10kN backward.
mircea_popescu: no braking system approaches this.
ascii_butugychag: discussing braking in a machine that can go into, e.g., spins, is lulzy
ascii_butugychag: only on the ground do you get stability (mostly) for free
BingoBoingo: In other news, this may be the fastest a qntra has gotten social media noise https://twitter.com/qntra/status/686996869583523840 << 20 minutes
mircea_popescu: you get stability in the sense that you agree to be a carrot moving at speed on a vegetable grater.
mircea_popescu: it's almost like "being a usg subject gives you stability for free"
mircea_popescu: yeah... i... have seen.
PeterL: less likely to hit a deer if travelling by helicopter
ascii_butugychag: eagle in the air intake ?
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2C4RCVR.txt )
mircea_popescu: well not for a heli
mircea_popescu: but yes, small jets mostly get killed by ducks.
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, many of the small helis on the market today are turbojet
mircea_popescu: yeah, but these tiny things here discussed seemed more like chainsaw than turbojet.
ascii_butugychag: (e.g., some of the police choppers where i live. i was shown one up close at a public expo, tiny thing)
ascii_butugychag: speaking of chainsaw
ascii_butugychag: i've something that beats mircea_popescu's huqsvarna motorcycle
ascii_butugychag: the new train cars in this town are...
ascii_butugychag: kawasaki.
mircea_popescu: actually... the motorbike dudes moved into heavy industry in the 90s
assbot: A peek inside Metro’s new rail car - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1SMRGjf )
ascii_butugychag: complete with barfproof floor
mircea_popescu: how's barfproof floor work ?
ascii_butugychag: (old cars had carpet)
mircea_popescu: "we don't let any poor people in"
ascii_butugychag: l0l if only
mircea_popescu: your life's ever closer to the dungeon, eh alf.
ascii_butugychag: 'Привет тебе, судьбы моей рычаг...'
assbot: 7 kinds of government subsidies those angry ranchers get that you don’t | Grist ... ( http://bit.ly/1N5D3Ah )
assbot: Yik Yak Use Leads To Arrest | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1N5D6vP )
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL
assbot: The new way police are surveilling you: Calculating your threat ‘score’ - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1l3LHsA )
ascii_butugychag: 'As officers respond to calls, Beware automatically runs the address. The searches return the names of residents and scans them against a range of publicly available data to generate a color-coded threat level for each person or address: green, yellow or red.'
ascii_butugychag: 'Exactly how Beware calculates threat scores is something that its maker, Intrado, considers a trade secret, so it is unclear how much weight is given to a misdemeanor, felony or threatening comment on Facebook. '
ascii_butugychag: l0ltr0n1c
ascii_butugychag: 'The Fresno City Council called a hearing on Beware in November after constituents raised concerns. Once council member referred to a local media report saying that a woman’s threat level was elevated because she was tweeting about a card game titled “Rage,” which could be a keyword in Beware’s assessment of social media.'
ascii_butugychag: who remembers the film 'brazil' ?
ascii_butugychag: 'Councilman Clinton J. Olivier... ...asked Dyer a simple question: “Could you run my threat level now?” Dyer agreed. The scan returned Olivier as a green, but his home came back as a yellow, possibly because of someone who previously lived at his address, a police official said.'
assbot: Full Disclosure: SSH Backdoor for FortiGate OS Version 4.x up to 5.0.7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1N5Ey1q )
ascii_butugychag: Run Moar Closed Turdware !11111
assbot: Saudi Arabia's Aramco considering share sale - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1N5EJd6 )
ascii_butugychag: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10887981 << lulzy shitgnomade re: the fortinet thing
assbot: SSH Backdoor found in Fortinet firewalls | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1SMTo43 )
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.000504 = 13.8852 BTC [+] {5}
deedbot-: [Qntra] Europol Claims DD4BC Action - http://qntra.net/2016/01/europol-claims-dd4bc-action/
mircea_popescu: o hey, aramco shares huh ?
mircea_popescu: gives the chinese something to buy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00050063 = 6.3079 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: mircea_popescu │ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367833 << i can't discern which side you're taking. << the side with mostly (if not *entirely*) plain english, and even better, represented as an explicit tree with s-expressions. that one can parse the hieroglyphs when he's habituated to them... fine, but I thought we were after "fits in head" here. how much skull-space does that
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 05:28:22; trinque: why create syntactic barriers to understanding when you can just kill the folks you don't want in your math club, anyway
trinque: parsing take?
trinque: the comment about syntactic barriers was this, that if the hieroglyphs keep dummies from mauling the field (even as a happy accident), there are much better ways to push them out
trinque: mircea_popescu: your comment about symbolics murdering the competition and saying "here is the spec" for example.
mircea_popescu: chief among those ways, teach them how to thing properly and watch them lose interest and move on
mircea_popescu: self-selection
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6152 @ 0.00050002 = 3.0761 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up user1675_
user1675_: hello
user1675_: i would like to take a fraction of my time to talk about
user1675_: how shit your registration system is
user1675_: there is no manual or instructions
user1675_: i bet you hired an indian on craigslist to build it for you
BingoBoingo: ^ instructions
user1675_: it sucks harder than my grandmas rotten socks
mircea_popescu: who're you again ?
BingoBoingo: Wasn't it clear? he's ~user1675@212.158.180.119
shinohai: lol wut?
BingoBoingo: So, apparently qntra is hours ahead of ther derp press on "ClassicCoin" fork. Who wants to put odds on Qntra being days ahead of ragazine et al?
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell psztorc Seriously, thank you for that tip.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16476 @ 0.00050278 = 8.2838 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21313 @ 0.000499 = 10.6352 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: Gavin and Toomim Present: "Classic" – Another Hard Fork Risk | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKjG60 )
BingoBoingo: !up CowManure
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase before July 2016 :: 0.94 B (31%) on Yes, 2.09 B (69%) on No | closing in 4 months 2 weeks | weight: 65`028 (100`000 to 2`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKkQi8 )
CowManure: What is considered 'bitcoin main'?
shinohai: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318519.msg13531667#msg13531667 <<< In which I am called an "MPFag" on bitcointalk, whatever that means.
assbot: Analysis and list of top big blocks shills (XT #REKT ignorers) ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKl2Of )
CowManure: were either of those answers to my question?
CowManure: I'm just curious based on the comments in the bet i posted
BingoBoingo: CowManure: I am unsure
kakobrekla: seems like blockchain.info resolves that bet
punkman: the main chain of blockhain.info. can be problematic if blockchain.info starts displaying both 1mb and >1mb chains concurrently
kakobrekla: but it say "any block ... on bc.info"
punkman: but also "main"
kakobrekla: bets are not resolved by title
BingoBoingo: Well sometimes they have been...
kakobrekla: like?
BingoBoingo: I dun remember
BingoBoingo: Mebbe I'm wrong
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00050045 = 7.1064 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychat
ascii_butugychat: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368591 << discussion was not solely about 'hieroglyphs', but even something as ordinary as matrix notation
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 20:57:40; trinque: mircea_popescu │ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367833 << i can't discern which side you're taking. << the side with mostly (if not *entirely*) plain english, and even better, represented as an explicit tree with s-expressions. that one can parse the hieroglyphs when he's habituated to them... fine, but I thought we were after "fits in head" here. how much skull-space does that
ascii_butugychat: i am NOT interested in dealing with this in motherfuking VERBAL form
ascii_butugychat: all day, every day.
ascii_butugychat: for a student, sure
ascii_butugychat: (but not that i do not earn my bread in front of a classroom, also)
ascii_butugychat notices lulzy typo in own nick
jurov: quaternions are not in wot, case closed.
ascii_butugychat: they are while i am.
jurov: !gettrust asciilifeform quaternions
assbot: quaternions is not registered in WoT.
jurov: ;)
ascii_butugychat: 'i am the lorax, who speaks for the trees!111' (tm) (r)
jurov: symbolic shorthand is very useful for a mathematician who want to pack as much stuff as possible into his viewport/chalkboard
jurov: also, i can't imagine taking notes on math analysis lectures using "plaintext" only
jurov: but in the end, it is actually only shorthand.
jurov: actually, having clear transcription rules between math symbols <-> plain english would be spiffy
ascii_butugychat: it is 'only' shorthand in exactly the same sense that the letters on your screen are 'shorthand' for raw bits
jurov: computer could render formulas from text, without relying on TeX or worse
ascii_butugychat: could also wipe arse with tree bark
ascii_butugychat: yes, could
ascii_butugychat: or even not at all.
ascii_butugychat: ~could~ !!11
jurov: and now, if that effort would run into problems, because math symbols are superset of written engl or some such
jurov: *then* wwe can revisit the arguemnt
ascii_butugychat: it is not only a matter of characters
ascii_butugychat: (how to write integral? what if i want the stick longer? do i have to spend all day fitting the bloody thing to a grid?)
jurov: wtf?
ascii_butugychat: ever typeset maths ?
trinque: why not invent operators all day in C++ ? and were you to explain the distinction between the two, the conversation would end right there.
ascii_butugychat: trinque: c++ sucks and this is one reason why
jurov: omg now they pull even c++ into the discussion
trinque: for fucks sake.
ascii_butugychat: a proper language lets you make operators, as in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=103 where i solved mr mold's puzzle by turning a running cl into his language
assbot: Loper OS » Nock Nock (Part 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1W57c9X )
trinque: he is *not* a good example of someone creating a sane language
trinque: took something that fits to sexps just fine, made HOON
ascii_butugychat: not cited for that reason
trinque: nock, rather.
ascii_butugychat: but i ~was~ able to redefine square brackets, ?, ^, etc
trinque: your example is that "I was able to wrangle someone else's nonsense with lisp" and I agree it does that rather well.
ascii_butugychat: trinque: ever do any serious original mathematics ?
trinque: if it is up to you entirely to invent the notation, I don't know why one would go to one with non-obvious evaluation order and all manner of other problems I thought lisp solved
ascii_butugychat: or so much as attempt ?
trinque: no, I have not
trinque: and you are missing the part where I'm asking a damn question.
trinque: lol
ascii_butugychat: then i am trying to describe 'why musical staff' to deaf folk
ascii_butugychat: who ask 'why not just write, do ra mi...'
trinque: god that's another motherfucking terrible notation and I play music!
ascii_butugychat: so does trinque fancy switching to verbal musical staff ?
ascii_butugychat: do, ra, mi?
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: verbalize this for me. and explain why anyone outside of a mental asylum would want to manipulate the thing in that form.
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with (a,b ; c,d) ?
ascii_butugychag: that they are rows? of an inherently spatial thing ?
ascii_butugychag: might represent, e.g., pixels ?
trinque: can't write matrix multiplication in lisp eh?
mircea_popescu: nope, can't be done.
ascii_butugychag: can write in morse if you like
ascii_butugychag: the thread concerned THINKING
ascii_butugychag: as in, preferred format for manipulation.
trinque: as for music I prefer a tracker, or yes, writing code to produce it
ascii_butugychag: trinque: and your tracker is all-ascii, and runs on 'do, ra, mi' in paragraph form ?
jurov: well, i thought thread concerns spreading of information and definition of alphabet
ascii_butugychag: jurov: it was originally about 'whether maths require a graphics terminal'
mircea_popescu: no, it was whether we'll be supporting anything but ascii
ascii_butugychag: and the 'pdf must die and not replaced with anything like it' thing
ascii_butugychag: procrustean lunacy
ascii_butugychag: i am keeping my legs AND my head tyvm
jurov: oh, that it very much does for 99 out of 100 thinkers
jurov: that had math analysis lectures usign blackboard
jurov: if math analysis was taught in lisp, that would maybe not be the case
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368661 << rather. because it 'd be for once and all be an actually COMPLETE notation
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 23:01:59; jurov: actually, having clear transcription rules between math symbols <-> plain english would be spiffy
mircea_popescu: currently what alf counts as "notation" for math is roughly speaking a sort of c++
mircea_popescu: "kinda most of the stuff except what we don't understand"
ascii_butugychag: it is imperfect
ascii_butugychag: but it beats FUCKING WORDS
mircea_popescu: no, it is not "imperfect". it is structurally broken
mircea_popescu: and the argument that it "beats words" is not unlike the argument that clang "beats lisp" because "apple ipad!!11"
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: kindly 'unbrokenize' http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368699 for me ?
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 23:13:12; ascii_butugychag: ty jurov. or let's go back to basic kindergarten, https://2000thingswpf.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/794-002.png?w=630
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you know that thing as displayed is actually meaningless.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00049749 = 6.0196 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_butugychag: it is most certainly ~not~ meaningless
mircea_popescu: what's "dot" ?
ascii_butugychag: it does not stand alone in an empty universe, no
ascii_butugychag: you gotta know some letters, what multiplication is, etc
mircea_popescu: your idea of meaning is unexamined.
ascii_butugychag: quite examined.
mircea_popescu: what's the difference between the forty and the sixty pixel tall long line with the little vertical ends ?
ascii_butugychag: just that i operate using an idea of meaning that lets me make things happen, occasionally, rather than having to stay in bed because we have not actually discovered REAL MEANING yet
mircea_popescu: just like the c++ folks!
mircea_popescu: IT JUST WORKS!11
ascii_butugychag: with the difference that i don't have to catch stroustrup and hang him upside-down and soldering iron to get new mathematical notation when i need it...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18585 @ 0.00050023 = 9.2968 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: riiight.
mircea_popescu: it's not only unspecified, it's also... unusable by a machine. because who the fuck knows when you'll feel the need for colored unicodemen
jurov: mircea_popescu with all your hate of english why do you suddenly deem it fit to express math concepts unadorned?
mircea_popescu: english is just broken romanian ie latin.
mircea_popescu: for some reason most of my barbarian friends seem to prefer it!
ascii_butugychag: jurov: my understanding is that mircea_popescu is so allergic to 'visual thinker'-ism that he barfs just thinking about any such thing being intrinsic to some aspect of whatever discipline
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu prolly writes his electrical schematics as netlists every time, etc
ascii_butugychag: specifies plans for a building using words, like kind solomon
mircea_popescu: not even. it's just that i'm so allergic to "dynamically linked" bullshit that i barf at the very notion of a computing system that might need "expansions" because people don't want ot learn to read and write
ascii_butugychag: why does it 'need expansions' ?
mircea_popescu: do you understand that your computer is broken by design for as long as you allow the conceptual possibility of adding symbols ?
ascii_butugychag: what's wrong with programmatic fonts ?
mircea_popescu: nothing, as long as you don't expect me to run the program
mircea_popescu: ie, they degrade gracefully.
mircea_popescu: which is what started this entire discussion : pdf does not degrade gracefully
mircea_popescu: and as such fucking burn it.
ascii_butugychag: depends what means 'gracefully'
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mircea_popescu: that i can see the complete meaning in plain text whenever i opt to not run whatever program.
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ascii_butugychag: for some reason i wonder if mircea_popescu has watched 'ascii starwars'
mircea_popescu: i have an ascii art plugin for mah video player ?
ascii_butugychag: does it convey the complete 'meaning of starwars' ?
mircea_popescu: which yes, i sometimes watch.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: iirc 'mplayer' does, aha
mircea_popescu: oh, that's not a challenge.
mircea_popescu: the complete meaning of star warsa can be conveyed in two lines.
mircea_popescu: ~= equivalent to all the rest of the us pulp, call it hubbard and send it home.
mircea_popescu: as long as what we do is we take ((1,2),(2,3)) and either print it as such or else draw it for your benefit as seen there, if you run a plug in everyone's happy.
jurov: how is adding symbols different from you taking a word and redefining it?
jurov: you abhor former, yet do latter often
mircea_popescu: if you expect to have a [ that scales to lines, we got a problem. there's not going to be any 244/245/179 bs
mircea_popescu: jurov the later is actually part of the graph. i can not meaningfully search for a motherfucking dot.
mircea_popescu: or for his dumbass arrows in the example given yest.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i did say many times that a canonical representation of whatever is, rightfully, sexpr
mircea_popescu: so then we basically are happy with an alphabet of ~100 ish characters and that's that.
jurov: well if I have to explore context what a word mean, well, then it is C++ too
ascii_butugychag: but somehow this turned into 'let's do maths as euclid did, with WORDZ!111'
mircea_popescu: jurov there's a difference between a proper existing ast, such as we have with words, unless we're idiots ; and a random gcc barf product.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag well cuz you paniced and lost it.
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, english does NOT guarantee you a sane (disambiguated) AST.
ascii_butugychag: i thought this was known to all.
mircea_popescu: in myhands it does.
jurov: even with best affort of the author, ast in the recipients varies
jurov: *effort
mircea_popescu: that's the luser's problem.
jurov: for spoken english
jurov: lol
mircea_popescu: but be all this as it may, for as long as gossipd.pop | print yields ((1,2),(2,3)) for me while gossipd.pop | mathgraph yields whatever ascii wants it to yield, we're happy.
jurov: ascii_butugychag: you see, quaternions are not in his wot and it's problem of the lusers who use it
ascii_butugychag: actually english speakers are so habituated to this that they have problems with ANY attempt at 'english-parsing machine'
ascii_butugychag: see the horrors in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568 for instance
assbot: Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( http://bit.ly/1U578pU )
ascii_butugychag: jurov: if this were actually so, and he were consistent about 'in wot', would have to avoid, e.g., aircraft with computerized autopilot
jurov: he surely tries
ascii_butugychag: and eulora
ascii_butugychag: with the quaternionic gpu
mircea_popescu: you don't have to run the graphical client! for all it cares you can talk to it by hand.
ascii_butugychag: but do you ?
mircea_popescu: looky : run diana_coman's bot, turn of the gfx altogether, it's 100% bash
ascii_butugychag: so the thing gracefully degrades to a text MUD? neato.
mircea_popescu: not by any means all my doing. but the design is sane and yes, it does. she's currently making a map of resources in practically this.
ascii_butugychag: very spiffy
ascii_butugychag always thought adventure games oughta work like this.
mircea_popescu: makes two of us.
mircea_popescu: and im not saying the gfx add-on is not helpful or w/e. but also not fucking mandatory.
mircea_popescu: and don't tell me "oh i can not keep maps in head o noes"
mircea_popescu: you playeds fucking rogue.
ascii_butugychag: 'advent' even !
mircea_popescu: in fact, the eulora experience is very much in line with a lengthy personal history whereby very smart, well intentioned, patient people trying to cater to my shockingly insane whims and whines end up with exceptionally well crafted items that stand proudly on their own.
deedbot-: [Qntra] Two US Navy Boats And Ten Sailors In Iranian Custody - http://qntra.net/2016/01/two-us-navy-boats-and-ten-sailors-in-iranian-custody/
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3394 @ 0.00049968 = 1.6959 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24510 @ 0.00049758 = 12.1957 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up linton_s_dawson
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368659 << i used to. not proposing that everyone gotta be me, or anything. but yes, i used to.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 22:59:46; jurov: also, i can't imagine taking notes on math analysis lectures using "plaintext" only
mircea_popescu: actually... when it came time for the cantor proof, the "work hard" galz tried to copy the whole fucking matrix off the table, and this made a meme at the time
mircea_popescu: because nobody fucking sane actually thinks THAT is how you note down that thing.
gabriel_laddel: hahhahahaa
mircea_popescu: see the discussion with cads on the topic two years ago. the for ~ANY~ thing is what's important there.
mircea_popescu braces himself for "number theory is not really analysis and you're not doing REAL math, only we multiplying matrixes while polishing lenses are doing the real maths!"
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mircea_popescu: how goes gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: Fantastic at the moment. These logs are a treat.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368682 << actually mold is a fine example of the hubbard/john smith sort of typically usian hack. took something, painted it, preteneded he made something. not unlike the derp that buys a ford truck, paints "lightning" on the sides, claims he build his own race car.
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 23:08:29; trinque: took something that fits to sexps just fine, made HOON
mircea_popescu: "oh, i'm not like those suckers working at pretending haskell is a thing ... i'm better than them... i'ma do the same thing by myself!!!!1" herp.
assbot: PORTALS OF CORPORATE INDECISION ... ( http://bit.ly/1UNdeup )
assbot: HOW TO FIND A JOB ... ( http://bit.ly/1UNdeuu )
assbot: MY NEW JOB ... ( http://bit.ly/1UNdg5t )
assbot: UNCLE AL'S FIRST JOBS ... ( http://bit.ly/1UNdrxM )
assbot: Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( http://bit.ly/1UNe3Uf )
phf: gabriel_laddel: i was drunk when answering you last time. i like the idea of a self-contained lisp system with ux built on top of xproto/xlib/zen, because can still attach c program outputs, and stream own output to unix systems proper. i've been building my own tools to be essentially a combination of cmucl repl, that spawn xlib windows on demand. not sure if you know but x is essentially a binary network protocol (described in
phf: variations of "X Window System Protocol" documents), with xlib being its C implementation. core protocol is pretty simple, but problems start with protocol extensions of various levels of retardation (like xinerama, etc.)
phf: how xserver talks to hardware is entirely outside the scope of protocol, since server accepts the xproto packets and then does rendering
phf: main problem with zen right now is that it does rendering, but it uses opengl (glx specifically) as the framebuffer. i've not looked at the implementation bits, but i assume that it goes beyond simple blit, so you might be able to retarget it to other opengl, but not necessarily straight to framebuffer, without implementing your own blit level rendering primitives
phf: also zen doesn't support most of the modern x11 extensions, that you might want for running something like firefox. in fact last time i checked it didn't support xrander, which is an old image composition extension that might as well be standard
phf: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: "i've been building my own tools to be essentially a combination of cmucl repl, that spawn xlib windows on demand" << xlib windows that display what exactly? Large GUIs? Renderings of novel structures?
phf: gabriel_laddel: gnuplot, xfoil kind of output, i.e. batch graphic, or anything that requires input with a mouse
phf: i know you do clim, but running clim through zen is essentially simultaneously trying to debug two 70% speed/coverage projects. even simple handwritten xlib proggies don't work out of the box.
mats: oh cads
mats: we were almost finalized on a small project where he'd design a widget and send me 3d prints of the prototype
mats: and then he disappeared forever (I didn't render any payment, though)
mats: ;;seen cads
gribble: cads was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 40 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 22 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <cads> being Professor Cads in an underground university
gabriel_laddel: phf: "because can still attach c program outputs" + "zen doesn't support most of the modern x11 extensions, that you might want for running something like firefox". We have CLIM irc, a listener (repl), an editor, dired + other. I don't particularly want to run c programs. You'd just end up reinventing CLIM anyways after you notice that "gee, it would be nice to have draggable crossbars in my GUI and geometry".
gabriel_laddel: phf: yes, debugging CLIM + zen at the same time is going to suck, but debugging CLIM + xlib sucks, and I have not yet compared the two to find out which is worse.
gabriel_laddel: It seems like what you're getting at is that the correct order of affairs is to tackle zen first, and then CLIM?
mircea_popescu: phf there is no native lisp gfx engine ?
gabriel_laddel: Heh, define native.
mircea_popescu: "opengl implemented in lisp"
gabriel_laddel: No such thing.
mircea_popescu: ahahahaahah what
mircea_popescu: why the fuck not ?
mircea_popescu: no, let me rephrase that.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: have you tried reading the OpenGL spec?
mircea_popescu: why not back in 1999 when opengl was not even taking over yet ?
mircea_popescu: im not the one that loves lisp.
mircea_popescu: but yes, i know.
phf: gabriel_laddel: i'm saying that it's only worthwhile to bring in zen if you want to ultimately do x11 support for foreign code. right now your problem is clim+xlib, you want your problem to be clim+xlib+zen+cl-opengl+glx. if the ultimate goal is drop x, then might as well try and retarget clim to framebuffer. the two (adding zen and framebuffer clim) or at 100% identical in the amount of effort
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: they did. Symbolics.
gabriel_laddel: S-GRAPHICS
mircea_popescu: that wasn't opengl
gabriel_laddel: phf: ah.
gabriel_laddel: phf: Thanks.
phf: mircea_popescu: i think that there's a bunch of people trying to chuck moore their way out of "modern computing" here, as such there's not native anything
mircea_popescu: incidentally if things are this fucked up, the correct avenue would probably be to define a full gfx stack
phf: *people here
mircea_popescu: phf you mean in lisp ? or what here ?
phf: mircea_popescu: here as in in #b-a
mircea_popescu: i dun follow.
mircea_popescu: the lisp power rangers failed to lead the wave in implementing opengl correctly twenty years ago
mircea_popescu: because of what we do in ba ?!
phf: mircea_popescu: oh, no, that was the answer to "there is no native lisp gfx engine?"
mircea_popescu: there should have been long ago. wtf is this joek.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9711 @ 0.00050556 = 4.9095 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: what, all through 1995 - 2005 everyone "in lisp" sat around on their ass passing back and forth stories of how cool moon was in the 70s and how great gabriel's hairdo looks ?
phf: everything talks to xlib, win32, carbon/cocoa and on top of that to opengl, directx. there are parts of that stack implemented in lisp (either as clients or as hosts). there's no opengl in lisp, there's opengl client in lisp. there's both xlib client and server in lisp, etc. there's not enough lisp code to run the whole graphics stack from the lisp machine to the video card end to end
mircea_popescu: because lisp is so empowering and shit ?
phf: mircea_popescu: the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak?
mircea_popescu: yeah well... this logic is broken. so lisp is good because, and i quote, "Because Lisp, as a tool, is to the mind as the lever is to the arm. It amplifies your power and enables you to embark on projects beyond the scope of lesser languages like C. Writing in C is like building a mosaic out of lentils using a tweezer and glue. Lisp is like wielding an air gun with power and precision. It opens out whole kingdoms
mircea_popescu: shut to other programmers."
mircea_popescu: meanwhile... there is an implementation of particularly gnarly in c, but not in lisp.
mircea_popescu: are we in a singularity ?
mircea_popescu: and nobody seems to rub the lispers' face in this, either. what, there's some sort of chivalrous convention i don't know about going on ?
phf: mircea_popescu: oh they do, that's a common argument
mircea_popescu: "take your propeller-hat, your paranthesis and your spielhosen away from here and come back when you have a fully native gfx stack."
mircea_popescu: a ? i guess teh summarizer's been sparing me.
mircea_popescu: but what's the problem, anyway ? seems like this is an exact match for the argued strengths of lisp.
mircea_popescu: (note that i'm not discussing performance. i'm not going hey, why doesn't lisp-gl push out 2x the fps of directx in 2001. just, it should be abel to do it, at all.)
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: After SMBX died CL had to be re-implemented.
mircea_popescu: i can readily understand why the ~performance~ issue is a true quagmire.
gabriel_laddel: non-CL lispers by-and-large, fail to understand why they're using lisp at all.
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
gabriel_laddel: Some 'lisper' who 'gets it' will implement a 'lisp' on top of another system and declare that "for such and such political/business reasons, the system we're basing our lisp on won't change its foundations, and therefore we're safe to write code on top of it"
gabriel_laddel: Then, inevitably, the foundations change.
gabriel_laddel: No lisper to date has produced a distro that DOES NOT CHANGE so one may use it as a platform for application development. Lisp solves a well-specified set of problems - ensuring that your algol reproducibly builds is not one of them.
gabriel_laddel: As for why a lisper didn't write his own OS from ASM? Well, you've read Stan's blog.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368871 << this makes roughly as much sense as 'cobol in lisp'
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 00:55:42; mircea_popescu: "opengl implemented in lisp"
asciilifeform: yes, you could.
asciilifeform: but WHY?!!
mircea_popescu: !rate chetty 10 No longer with us, and not replaceable.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a51dd4d25310674e
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.chetty.10:e7478a460e183d3fe8a22a4aa41725df6b948a37e9a333aa5c13d44d44e3683a
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for chetty from 5 to 10 with note: No longer with us, and not replaceable.
asciilifeform: and opengl is a heathen thing anyway, because there is no documented gpu.
phf: mircea_popescu: there's a limited number of lispers and they all scratch their own itch. without centralized visions results barely compose. gabriel_laddel needs working clim for his projects. robert strandh only occasionally hacks on mcclim anymore, spends most of his time on n-th rewrite of emacs, etc. and of course there are arguments of what the components should be and how they should compose. the only common ground is the
phf: specification and some symbolics artifacts
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368884 << no shit, the braindamaged opengl thing had not been yet conceived of then
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 00:57:41; mircea_popescu: that wasn't opengl
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 00:59:45; mircea_popescu: incidentally if things are this fucked up, the correct avenue would probably be to define a full gfx stack
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368893 << this is demonstrably false, and wtf, 'power rangers', smbx had a 100% lispified 3d accelerator in the '80s.
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:01:16; mircea_popescu: the lisp power rangers failed to lead the wave in implementing opengl correctly twenty years ago
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368898 << lisp in '95-05 is roughly where ru was in '90s - laments and vodka
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:04:05; mircea_popescu: what, all through 1995 - 2005 everyone "in lisp" sat around on their ass passing back and forth stories of how cool moon was in the 70s and how great gabriel's hairdo looks ?
asciilifeform: and could not have been anything else
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368904 << is the concept of impedance-mismatch-with-os unclear to mircea_popescu ?
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:07:02; mircea_popescu: meanwhile... there is an implementation of particularly gnarly in c, but not in lisp.
asciilifeform: do i have to chew it into small pieces ?
gabriel_laddel: Please, for the 100th time, go right on ahead.
gabriel_laddel: Why, stan, are threads a bad idea?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368906 << forget gpu, there is not a usefully lispified driver for ANYTHING ELSE in x86 hardware ! and for reasons that have to do with how the idiot architecture is built (can i haz atomic lisp operation? no, because interrupts on x86. i wasted most of a decade on this)
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:07:28; mircea_popescu: and nobody seems to rub the lispers' face in this, either. what, there's some sort of chivalrous convention i don't know about going on ?
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:08:37; mircea_popescu: "take your propeller-hat, your paranthesis and your spielhosen away from here and come back when you have a fully native gfx stack."
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368919 << because there is no standard hardware platform.
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:14:54; gabriel_laddel: No lisper to date has produced a distro that DOES NOT CHANGE so one may use it as a platform for application development. Lisp solves a well-specified set of problems - ensuring that your algol reproducibly builds is not one of them.
asciilifeform: and no sign of such a thing being buildable
asciilifeform just notices:
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:18:12; mircea_popescu: !rate chetty 10 No longer with us, and not replaceable.
asciilifeform takes off hat
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368944 << i'll leave it to gabriel_laddel, adlai, et al, i've not the time or energy.
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:23:53; gabriel_laddel: Please, for the 100th time, go right on ahead.
phf: here's an s-graphics made animation instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdTGJChDKrM
assbot: CHARLES RANDALL - " The Minds Eye - # 7 " - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kcpb7f )
assbot: Stanley & Stella in Breaking the Ice (1987) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kcpcbo )
asciilifeform: ^ and those swarms were properly computed, even
asciilifeform patiently waits for mircea_popescu post concerning http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-01-2016#1368925
assbot: Logged on 13-01-2016 01:18:12; mircea_popescu: !rate chetty 10 No longer with us, and not replaceable.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1368380 << makes sense, i suspected this
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 18:41:01; kakobrekla: ;;later tell asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/155WRJA.txt
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski hey, got your msg. hit me up when you're around.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: asciilifeform takes off hat << oh no!
deedbot-: [Trilema] And now the story has an ending. - http://trilema.com/2016/and-now-the-story-has-an-ending/
kakobrekla: she will be missed
mod6: indeed
deedbot-: [Qntra] In Memoriam - http://qntra.net/2016/01/in-memoriam/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25107 @ 0.00050692 = 12.7272 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00050779 = 9.9527 BTC [+] {2}
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