Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-11-21 | 2015-11-23 → ↓
ben_vulpes: phf: без купюр?
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ben_vulpes: in re fp, dunno that anyone noticed, but i backpedaled from the global state fatwa in my v poc
ben_vulpes: tres annoying to pass the same args around constantly.
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phf: ben_vulpes: "without cuts", купюра is from french coupure, and in this case means the parts that are cut out by the censor
phf: it's actually from latin caesura, which is now used as the name of pause in a poem. i thought caesarean section comes from that, but wikipedia article has a very confusing "etymology" section so i don't even know what to believe anymore!
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mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he means he can talk without bothering with the annoying sorts of context.
ben_vulpes: i might begin to be understanding
ben_vulpes: speaking without cuts then means to communicate intelligibly even without the bits that the censors stripped?
mircea_popescu: or without the baby crying.
ben_vulpes: is there some russian joke in there about how the bits that are cut are never the relevant ones?
mircea_popescu: the fundamental point of the written word is that allows a certain sort of abstraction. it's "escapism" in a particular sense.
mircea_popescu: the log system takes this fundamentally further.
ben_vulpes: because a corpus through which one can grep exists, the forum can on an ongoing basis can communicate ever more abstractly?
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mircea_popescu: i don't think we mean the same by abstraction. it's not a sort of cool. it's basically purification.
mircea_popescu: like in "he was spirited away", "we abstracted him away"
mircea_popescu: phf the problem with the village of ugly women is that well, there's probably something wrong with the water. yes the people now involved may be subpar for whatever reason or explanation to do with them. maybe. or maybe THIS offshot of the hope to ai is just as rotten as the rest of the various attempts to ai that preceded it.
mircea_popescu: for reasons to do with that, instead.
mircea_popescu: (what apparently nobody wants to mention is that the "good" oop now corrupted by teh evil orcs was really a child of desperation. pretty much born out of the mit through c-section, in the classical sense)
mircea_popescu: (there's a very good reason they keep going on with cow and dog are animal. there was a great paper in the log about "you know what, just change your chosen names to hashes, see if teh system appears to be doing as much "understanding" as it did before.)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i meant abstraction in the sense of software that composes small tools into larger units that...operate at a higher level of abstraction.
mircea_popescu: you have no fucking idea what that word means, do you.
ben_vulpes: apparently not!
ben_vulpes: what does it mean then.
mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed.
ben_vulpes: SOUNDS A LOT LIKE WRITING SOFTWARE
ben_vulpes: i kid, i kid.
mircea_popescu: romanian joke, for you. man sitting at desk, dog next to him pissing in his shoe.
mircea_popescu: guy comes in, "hey, isn't that dog pissing in your shoe bothering you ?!"
mircea_popescu: "fac abstractie."
mircea_popescu: (i am abstracting)
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punkman: speaking of Alan Kay, I recently stumbled on one of his inane ted-style talks, and his lets-reinvent-computars project http://www.vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm
assbot: Viewpoints Research Institute ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkoyPQ )
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deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Get Shorty. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/11/22/get-shorty/
punkman: saw this in the cinema long time ago. puts it on rewatch list.
assbot: I'll Go Home Then, It's Warm and Has Chairs: The Unpublished Emails. | David Thorne | digital library bookzz ... ( http://bit.ly/21bjUrg )
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assbot: Southwest Airlines surrenders to racists, refuses boarding to Arab-American passengers / Boing Boing ... ( http://bit.ly/1N1pDFL )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00050679 = 12.5177 BTC [-] {2}
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assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 311 @ 0.00328387 = 1.0213 BTC [-] {3}
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assbot: Just a moment... ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvMkVt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15494 @ 0.00051493 = 7.9783 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: punkman guy is like 75 or some shit.
mircea_popescu: fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king.
mircea_popescu: o yeah get shorty is good. sort of like early pulp fiction / snatch
mircea_popescu: meh, epub. i'll wait for the text version.
punkman: epub is text
punkman: this one at least
mircea_popescu: shinohai because there are way more people than jobs.
mircea_popescu: punkman i just went in a cycle asking "then why the fuck are they not calling it .txt" and answering myself the line above to shinohai and now i feel a little queasy.
punkman: lol
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mircea_popescu: PK^C^D ^@^@^@^@^@\
punkman: you can unzip the epub, you'll get html
mircea_popescu: "this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent"
mircea_popescu: what the motherfucking shit is wrong with these people.
mircea_popescu: "oh look, i wrote some words down, now you gotta do what i say!!1"
mircea_popescu: said every obnoxious 9 yo girl having experienced insufficient ponytail pulling.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mitch_callahan your connection is doing that thing again
gribble: The operation succeeded.
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mircea_popescu: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="no"?><!DOCTYPE html
mircea_popescu: PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
mircea_popescu: content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=utf-8" /><meta
mircea_popescu: name="generator" content="Aspose.Words for .NET 10.6.0.0"
mircea_popescu: href="styles.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" /></head><body><div><h1
mircea_popescu: id="navPoint_1"><span>Foreword</span></h1><p><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">&#xa0;</span></p><p><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">Hello. Thank you for buying this
mircea_popescu: book. </span><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">Or at least the
mircea_popescu: e-book.</span><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> I laid this out
mircea_popescu: myself and I have never done an e-book layout before so </span><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">I </span><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">apologise</span><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> in advance </span><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">if </span><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">it isn’t very good. I probably
mircea_popescu: should have put in more effort but you know how it is. With round the
mircea_popescu: clock episodes of Property Virgins on HGTV and sleeping to do, there never
mircea_popescu: </span><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">seems</span><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> enough hours in the day.
mircea_popescu: </span><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">Also, r</span><span
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">ather than go to any real effort, I
mircea_popescu: thought it would be easier to simply collect all the material I have
mircea_popescu: written that didn’t make it into the first book, either due to timing,
mircea_popescu: space, legal issues, or not being very good, and put them in this one.
mircea_popescu: </span></p><p><span style="font-family:Arial,
mircea_popescu: sans-serif">&#xa0;</span></p><p><span style="font-family:Arial,
mircea_popescu: sans-serif">Hosting fees are e
mircea_popescu: would you look at this stupid shit!
mircea_popescu: take some text, put it through "Aspose.Words for .NET 10.6.0.0" so you can have <span></span> for every other word like in the old days of microsoft computing, and then zip the shit and call it "epub".
mircea_popescu: fucking hell already. go make altcoins, people.
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mitch_callahan: ahh sorry BingoBoingo, its this stupid Mac client I'm using. i'll remove it today.
mircea_popescu: "hosting fees are expensive" my foot. they're only expensive because "oh i just wanna be a designer" all over the place.
punkman: https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/502526058.jpg saw Uncle Vanya yesterday. here's the set chekov-gun'd until the fucking picture frames are empty.
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052383 = 2.4096 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [Trilema] Fuck you and your stupid epub. Also, David Thorne's 2nd book (it isn't really very good). - http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329599 >> 'the map is not the territory but the territory didn't fit in my glove compartment'
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 06:30:10; mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329616 >> snore, this is what happens if you live too long - old, 'respectable', impotent
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 07:22:09; punkman: speaking of Alan Kay, I recently stumbled on one of his inane ted-style talks, and his lets-reinvent-computars project http://www.vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329646 >> perhaps somebody will have the basic decency to feed me a bullet prior
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 13:46:27; mircea_popescu: fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329651 >> but there are ~precisely~ as many people as there are picks at butugychag
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 13:51:32; mircea_popescu: shinohai because there are way more people than jobs.
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 13:59:58; mircea_popescu: "this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent"
assbot: Loper OS » To Lend is the Right of an Owner – That is, Not You. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TY5dDA )
asciilifeform: 'To those who would retain their right to personal property: your only true allies are the pirates. Not “lending libraries”, not “reasonably priced” and “humane” iTunes-like services. The pirates are the only people presently defending the no-compromise, My-Computer-is-Mine point of view.' -- yours truly
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329662 << gianni rodari had a rhyme about 'the girl that wanted a song just for her and nobody else'
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 14:01:19; mircea_popescu: said every obnoxious 9 yo girl having experienced insufficient ponytail pulling.
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 13:55:36; mircea_popescu: PK^C^D ^@^@^@^@^@\
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only after he said.
asciilifeform: y'know, 0x50 0x4B 0x03 0x04.
asciilifeform nostalgic
mircea_popescu: that part of my brain has been overwritten by tits.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of defending, see the latest trilema.
asciilifeform reading it presently
asciilifeform briefly took a break from debugging a motherfucking debugger
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja actually swallow that whole thing ?
asciilifeform: the thorne turd
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: it's just 400kb or so.
asciilifeform: it isn't the weight
asciilifeform: but the... contents
mircea_popescu: which i suppose counts for "368" pages in lalaland wherew they do 1k characters per page.
mircea_popescu: what about them ?
mircea_popescu shudders at the thought he actually had to "turn a page" every 1k bytes.
mircea_popescu: god damned it i'd rather be a z80/
mircea_popescu: books are for german kids, really, the sort that grew up waddled at the ankles.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ergo the popularity of mechanized b00kz
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is wrong wiht plain text omfg.
asciilifeform: aside from maths - nothing
asciilifeform: for the most part that is what i keep around on dead tree
mircea_popescu: a) none of these derps know any maths and b) i do and somehow survive. if you need a particular notation to do maths either you're not very good or are trying to talk to idiots.
asciilifeform would like to read mircea_popescu's notation-less mathematical work. i bet it is rather like euclid on lsd
kakobrekla: like feynman and his diagrams. total idiot.
asciilifeform: and fuck leibniz aha
mircea_popescu retreats growling audibly.
jurov: i'd like to see natural language applied to programming, too
asciilifeform: jurov: ever use 'hypertalk' ?
asciilifeform: jurov: you can see a little bit in one of my old articles, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568
assbot: Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( http://bit.ly/1U578pU )
asciilifeform: (imho the idea of 'natural language program' is fundamentally, deeply braindamaged like few other ideas)
mircea_popescu: "natural languages" != "alphabetic notation".
mircea_popescu: i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere.
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mircea_popescu: there is a fucking reason white people are better than all the other people, and it has jack shit to do with the skin.
mircea_popescu: a lot more to do with the brilliant idea of "use these letters and fuck you and your ugly mother."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67045 @ 0.00052406 = 35.1356 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: adding a meaning for a word that already has zillion of other meanings, instead of using dedicated symbol is NOT reducing complexity
mircea_popescu: and you know this how ?
jurov: from experience
jurov: and you?
mircea_popescu: but does your experience also include what i actually said above, or just what you saw in it ?
mircea_popescu: i said "clamp down in one place" not "reduce". how the fuck are you goingto reduce complexity and why aren't you moving on to entropy next!
jurov: you explicitly named the place as "use these letters and fuck you and your ugly mother."
mircea_popescu: think of it as a boat.
mircea_popescu: the boat does not make the ocean level any lower.
mircea_popescu: except it allows you to stay dry.
mircea_popescu: (it actually makes the level raise slightly, but that is part of the "hope and pray" definition of abstraction yesterday - we hope and pray it dun matter.)
jurov: that's finest advocacy of humanist pseudosciences i ever saw
jurov: they try to take existing language and leverage it, too
mircea_popescu: &#128077;
gribble: Error: "#128077;" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: 11110000:10011111:10010001:10001101
mircea_popescu: you know what i mean...
mircea_popescu: anyway, again not sure why this isn't obvious, but the alphabet is (still is, in spite of all the "help" geeks gave it) a defined, closed, easily countable set.
mircea_popescu: "natural language" isn't even defined.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329763 << with regards to mathematics, it was ~specifically~ about tying folks' dirty, sticky, shit-covered 'intuitive language brain' monkey hands and forcing formal reasoning
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 16:23:54; mircea_popescu: i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere.
mircea_popescu: which is why this "no but math notation" argument is so bifurcacious.
asciilifeform: take, for instance, http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/hypercard-calc/hc23.jpg << this. it took me perhaps 20 whole minutes to crap out. know why ?
asciilifeform: the reason was that using english as it permits itself to be used, specifically fails, in ways which the hypertalk docs did not take any pains to describe
asciilifeform: (in short, the disambiguation has to be done like-so; and you can use pronouns, but only like-so)
asciilifeform: overall much more pain, imho, than any ordinary programming language.
trinque: interesting. there you see that abstraction increases complexity clearly, by way of an exaggerated case
asciilifeform: idiot abstraction balloons up complexity like nothing else
trinque: SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers"
trinque: they at (the very) least made something of a double-back somewhere along the language's history
thestringpuller: trinque: that's an apt observation of SQL.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same problem is why everyone hates what originally seemed obvious and intuitive : the text powered adventure
mircea_popescu: motherfucker i hated larry's comprehension.
asciilifeform: trying to make a programming language for ~the wrong side of the camel hump~ is like trying to build a car for folks missing both arms and legs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: precisely that
thestringpuller: what's with all the danny devito reviews on da blogs?
mircea_popescu: no. bad analogy.
mircea_popescu: it's like trying to make trains for cixi
mircea_popescu: as far as her dumb ass is concerned, the best possible train is a ghetto blaster with the volume welded to low, playing christmas carrols from under the mirrors-ensconced speakers.
mircea_popescu: in other news, "you should perhaps point out to your mother that being ugly is no excuse to rawdog drunks" is my new favourite insult.
asciilifeform mumbles something about $chipvendor rawdogging drunks
asciilifeform has 'wrath' bit set
thestringpuller: "the wrath of alfdog" << great name for a hip hop album
asciilifeform: mips_ejtag_drscan_8_out(ejtag_info, MCHP_DE_ASSERT_RST); << motherfuckers. WE ARE SO SPESHUL, can't use standard mips reset ahahaha.
kakobrekla: <trinque> SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers" < yet is anyone still writing raw queries in this day?
mircea_popescu: pretty much every time i want something from trilema i SELECT by hand
mircea_popescu: i really have no idea why i'd want a language on top of that. what's it going to do ?
trinque: frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying
fluffypony: kakobrekla: I write raw queries a few times a week
mircea_popescu: the only way it could be useful is if it somehow intuited what the columns are actually named for me so i don't have to always keep checking
mircea_popescu: but that ain't happening
kakobrekla: you dont need 'functionality' to SELECT from wp-posts
assbot: Unqualified Reservations: Wolfram Alpha and hubristic user interfaces ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCBDHG )
asciilifeform: '...control interfaces must not be intelligent. Briefly, intelligent user interfaces should be limited to applications in which the user does not expect to control the behavior of the product. If the product is used as a tool, its interface should be as unintelligent as possible. Stupid is predictable; predictable is learnable; learnable is usable.'
trinque: kakobrekla: it is amusing though, yes, that this that was originally intended to be a user interface got buried as it did
kakobrekla: i find raw queries disgusting
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: do you find the tool disgusting, or the work ?
asciilifeform: folks tend to confuse the two
kakobrekla: perhaps both.
fluffypony: SELECT * FROM kakobrekla_brain WHERE is_disgusting=1;
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i know how to do joins and everything!
mircea_popescu: what functionality are you talking about ?
fluffypony: ORDER BY last_disgusted_date DESC;
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu probably also knows how to change a crankshaft. but does he ~want~ to.
mircea_popescu: and honestly i don't mind it so much. about the same as my life generally, really.
mircea_popescu: "bring me this" "fetch me a that" "kill that schmuck"
mircea_popescu: if you're going to rule people you gotta be able to somehow explain what you actually want done and raw queries are really not far off.
asciilifeform: ah but machine doesn't typically respond to whipping
mircea_popescu: nor needs it.
asciilifeform: which is why man so often becomes servant of machine, rather than vice versa
asciilifeform: stuck 'wrestling with the pig'
mircea_popescu: i would much rather spend five minutes writing queries than figuring why the fuck copy *. doesn't work and ending up using cat
mircea_popescu: seriously, leaving aside everything else, why the fuck would you make THIRTY EIGHT DIFFERENT FILES ?
mircea_popescu: what is this "chapter" thing and why is it in your epub^H^H^H^H zipfile ?
jurov: i'm okay with sql. but when programatically constructing a query, i prefer sqlalchemy
kakobrekla: most folks most of the time dont need 'functionality', just like with sugar.
asciilifeform: see also mircea_popescu's 'this is a spiffy rifle, i'll take it fishing and to bed'
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no but seriously, i'm at least partly here to learn, so what functionality is it ? like a good example.
kakobrekla: this one: <trinque> frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying
kakobrekla: ask trinq.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16361 @ 0.00051362 = 8.4033 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 30000 @ 0.000209 = 6.27 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00051366 = 13.9202 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: mircea_popescu │ kakobrekla no but seriously, i'm at least partly here to learn, so what functionality is it ? like a good example. << this I think calls for careful steps and a machete
trinque: the huge problem with relational databases is that they conflated programming and declarative data access to the detriment of both
trinque: one place you'll find c-like expressions and functions; another you find set union and difference operators which work entirely via magic
trinque: this magic is why (as I understand it) asciilifeform abhors the thing; you have in no way been involved with what steps will be taken to compute the result other than describing the result itself, barring again, the places where actual programming crept back in
trinque: the usefulness of this declarative mode is I think as you describe, "get me a that" damn it, because I want one.
trinque: aside this, any work I'm doing in databases has been indefinitely postponed until I understand CLOS far better, and review what was done atop it
kakobrekla: if you think you have done away with magick using raw queries you are mistaken
trinque: nah, I am saying the db is magic to the core.
trinque: horrible chimera
kakobrekla: the layer on top (at least mine) generates queries deterministically and the result is not obstructed
trinque: use objects at that layer?
kakobrekla: optionally
trinque: SQLAlchemy or the like?
kakobrekla: i havent used sqla, i guess its is probably similar though i cant say for sure
kakobrekla doesnt use off shelf solution
trinque: cool
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 59700 @ 0.00011016 = 6.5766 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: some people went boldly to solve RDBMS problem... and created MongoDB. *cringe*
trinque: myeah, that thing is a sin
asciilifeform: there are 'people' programming computers who wouldn't have been allowed within cannon shot of a tractor in kolhoz, yes
trinque: jurov: I simply wish to sit with my data-set and say "give me the X for which this lambda evaluates true, retrieve its related Y and Z, compute this aggregate over the related Y and Z; do this again with another lambda. Return the paginated list of the intersection of the two result sets"
trinque: I'm sure this could be done rather well atop CLOS with no other monstrosities involved
trinque: and the observation which led to databases in the first place is that questions like the above arise constantly; they are not thought of once and etched into the program in stone
trinque: these document stores are nothing more than "What, you don't already know the key of the value you want?" and subsequently "Well fuck, how do we tack relational ideas back onto this, now that we've abandoned all notion of formal structure?"
assbot: Silicon Exposed: March 2014 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SSZkpN )
asciilifeform: 'Once the via was drilled and it appeared we had made contact with the signal trace, it was time to backfill with platinum. The video below is sped up 10x to avoid boring my readers ;)'
asciilifeform: 'Once everything was done and the chamber was vented I removed the carbon coating with oxygen plasma (the cleanroom's standard photoresist removal process), packaged up my sample, went home, and soldered it back to the board for testing. After powering it up... nothing! The device was as dead as a doornail, I couldn't even get a JTAG IDCODE from it. ... ... ruled out beam-induced damage as I had not been hitting any of the I/O
asciilifeform: circuitry with the ion beam ... I realized what was going on almost instantly: the antenna effect. The bond wire and leadframe connected to each pad in the device was acting as an antenna and coupling some of the 13.56 MHz RF energy from the plasma into the input buffers, blowing out the ESD diodes and input transistors, and leaving me with a dead chip.'
mircea_popescu: trinque can i get "this" and "that" comparisons of the actual thing ? "ceci n'est pas une pipe" "this is not a pipe" sort of thing
jurov: trinque i'd rather have lazy evaluator that collects the filters and operations I normally have in the program, and compiles them together into optimized query and executes it only when the result is needed
jurov: but that's hard AI, I'm afrraid
trinque: mircea_popescu: the mismatch I was referring to was the object-relational-mapper; it cannot for example (easily, or usably) create a new object which is the synthesis of n other objects done by inner join
trinque: on the SQL side you're more than welcome to create new sets at will via views
jurov: i don't see why this of all is the problem, objects usually know which table/column is the field wired to
trinque: there are sets which are derived from operations on other sets
trinque: "an active_customer is one with an active_subscription and an enabled flag and..."
jurov: as long as all the values take their primary keys with them, you're fine
trinque: this is not the point
jurov: for me biggest prob was the consistency, in any nontrivial ORM situation you build the objects partially, must take care of constraints... db that defers checking constraints to commit would help, but then how do you report it to user... hairiness
trinque: and actually you're going to end up looking at SQL ASTs to figure out where a column came from
trinque: jurov: *that* was my point
trinque: that using an ORM you duplicate what the DB can already do
trinque: why not derive your JS form validator or whatever from your db constraint?
trinque: "because SQL" << and now we're back to me writing a CL RDBMS
mircea_popescu: for some reason these all sound to me like "the problems we get for having a bad db design"
mircea_popescu: if one structures his tables sanely then none of these complex requests exiswt
jurov: i see
trinque: that's certainly so, that you either pick a sane table structure, or you write terrible queries
jurov: hahaha and then is not able to detect glaring errors...because "dis doth not exist!!111"
jurov: *mpex is
trinque: and my most complex queries have typically involved converting one schema to another one time, and then throwing away the queries
jurov: !up linton_s_dawson
jurov: pls don't thank me
jurov: !up tripleslash
jurov: !up imposter
imposter: Herro
jurov: hey
wyrdmantis: mircea_popescu can i have eulora login?
mircea_popescu: wyrdmantis aite 1sec
assbot: dpaste: 1HV52PK ... ( http://bit.ly/1N6t8yX )
mircea_popescu: "After fifteen years in the design industry and realising the only difference between sitting in front of a computer facilitating client's requests and kneeling on the urine soaked floor of a truck stop bathroom giving five dollar blowjobs to men named Chuck, is the amount of urine on the floor, the Jumping Frog fee has evolved from insurance against post-project client suggestion to client incentive to have somebody e
mircea_popescu: lse do it."
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26143 @ 0.00051213 = 13.3886 BTC [-] {2}
phf: ;;later tell wyrdmantis PMed, but not sure if you got it before timeouting. http://www.eulorum.org/OS_X works, let me know if you run into any issues
assbot: OS X - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTmdbo )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35040 @ 0.0005113 = 17.916 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00051573 = 17.638 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00051572 = 3.249 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.00051576 = 11.6562 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Roger Verification Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1P1bbUR )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68650 @ 0.00051186 = 35.1392 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00051869 = 8.8437 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42907 @ 0.00052235 = 22.4125 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: lol, Reddit is nao using traditional spam to fill its content quotas https://archive.is/wQQyC
assbot: New SEO Marketing Company in San Antonio : neckbeardstories ... ( http://bit.ly/1P1ca7A )
mircea_popescu: i actually get more "web designer" spam than "seo expert" spam.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski, ben_vulpes, et al: motherfucking crapple. ~4 hrs disassembly to swap a measely inverter cable
pete_dushenski: for the unawares, what SHOULD it take ?
asciilifeform: in civilized iron this is not a wear component !
pete_dushenski: 'designed by apple in california, etc.'
asciilifeform: 'a1181' if anyone gives half a fuck.
pete_dushenski: for macbook air ?
asciilifeform: nah the other one.
asciilifeform: ('air' has no high voltage supply to the panel, as it is from led era)
pete_dushenski: the airbook mac then ?
asciilifeform: the whateverthefuck the a1181 is.
assbot: MacBook "Core 2 Duo" 2.4 13" (Black-08) Specs (Early 2008, MB404LL/A, MacBook4,1, A1181, 2242) @ EveryMac.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLwIeg )
pete_dushenski: aha. brother had it.
pete_dushenski: i was 'pro' user, wouldn't touch this.
asciilifeform: i wouldn't either
pete_dushenski: wtf are you doing dinking around with one on the first place ?
asciilifeform: it is for pet
pete_dushenski: must be some kinda pet.
asciilifeform: used for many years, and will use until the chinese stop making parts
mircea_popescu: how does the cable wear anyway ? badly placed fan ?
asciilifeform: fatigue
asciilifeform: (it runs through the hinge)
mircea_popescu: fatigue from what
mircea_popescu: \it's not a fuciking bridge oh.
asciilifeform: open, close, open, close...
asciilifeform: this is the hv cable for the lamps
asciilifeform: everything about the box seemed to be ~designed~ to make repairs as miserable an affair as possible
asciilifeform: i'm kinda surprised they didn't fill the thing with glue and be done with it
jurov: you forgot trotyl
asciilifeform: ^ optional extra pheature
pete_dushenski: iphn0e comes in gold casing for this precise reason
mircea_popescu: trotyl is more expensive than either the thing or the intended customer.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 17:59:12; pete_dushenski: even place large quantity of gold in land mines. hell, make the land mines ~entirely~ out of gold. not like the yellow stuff has any better uses.
pete_dushenski is non-plussed by sequence of 'actual history'
pete_dushenski: the mines before phones or phones before mines thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu would enjoy 'hall of the singing caryatids' by v. pelevin
asciilifeform: (exists in engl even)
asciilifeform: it is about this picture.
mircea_popescu is more into the "Brothel of intellectual lusts" take on female degradation than the flimsy political apropos take.
asciilifeform: it's more of the former than the latter
mircea_popescu: i guess no two people ever can read the same book
asciilifeform: if i ever bother to do a w4r3z scan, they could...
mircea_popescu: i never saw much in it (and in pelevin generally) other than "oh if only the holy tenets of TRUE socialism hadn't been /intinate/ or however you say that in russian
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you gotta be thinking of some other fella
mircea_popescu: isn't this the book with lena the "poor her" whore and that schmuck doing dune "the voice" v2.0 ?
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329816 << duly noted for second instalment of comic. if. when.
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 17:09:00; thestringpuller: "the wrath of alfdog" << great name for a hip hop album
mircea_popescu: ;;google "the voice" in dune
gribble: Voice - Dune Wiki - Frank Herbert, David Lynch, Sandworms - Wikia: <http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Voice>; Bene Gesserit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit>; Dune (2000) - Lady Jessica using the voice against Stilgar - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDHzDOWg9gw>
mircea_popescu: anyway, i get it, an entire generation of disenfranchised young russians figure they're great chaps and the fault must be in the women empowering the old farts.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile...
mircea_popescu: whatever, i dun feel like getting into it.
pete_dushenski: too much work on the sabbath ?
mircea_popescu: too much rehash. what am i, openssl ?
assbot: The Aviationist » Watch this video of Iranian F-14 Tomcats escorting a Russian Tu-95 bomber during air strike in Syria ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLA15f )
mircea_popescu: do those things even do anything ?
mircea_popescu: "oh oh airstrike" "ok and ?" "we took out their outhouse!111"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i have nfi what you are no matter how hard i try.
mircea_popescu: here's a primer on airstrike efficiency : the brits did 7 (SEVEN!) mid-air refuellings for one of their rustbuckets to manage to drop ONE bomb on the one runway in the faulklands, "disabling" it
mircea_popescu: except the argentines fixed it that same day, and used it to land hercules for the entire duration of the conflict.
pete_dushenski isn't sure that 'bear' is supposed to do anything.
mircea_popescu: cost about 150mn to tear down (without counting amortisation and hr costs) and about 18k to fix.
pete_dushenski: that's backasswards terrorism
mircea_popescu: well, the ~$65 in box cutters the terrorists spent did bring down a 8-10bn piece of real estate.
pete_dushenski: ;;calc 9000000000/65
gribble: 138461538.462
pete_dushenski: ^healthy roi, that.
pete_dushenski: healthy *multiple
pete_dushenski: ;;calc 18000/150000000
gribble: 0.00012
pete_dushenski: one of these aggressors has too much money in their pockets, while the other knows full well the value of a dollar.
mircea_popescu: either that or possibly doesn't give a shit about caryatids.
mircea_popescu: defo one or the other.
mircea_popescu: supposedly (ro) intinate = (en) defiled, but im not too happy to it. tina is a derrogative for earth, soil. it's expected to be barren, powdery (but noit outright sand) and in generaly the equivalent of dirt.
mircea_popescu: intina is a verb, to en-dirt-y.
assbot: Redirect Notice ... ( http://bit.ly/1N70qhw )
mircea_popescu: i had a great pic up lemme see if i can ever find anything again in this smoldering pile of everything that's my blog
mircea_popescu: back in a week.
asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu read the book in a language he actually speaks
mircea_popescu: i think i read it in french
mircea_popescu: meh i can't find the happy dancing mantises. a well.
mircea_popescu: anyway, what was in your copy, asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: well i have an english transl. lying around
asciilifeform: perhaps will warez it once find my tripod and have a free shiva hand.
mircea_popescu: notrly the point is it ?
assbot: wtf ily : Photo ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLDaC4 )
asciilifeform: it's a short & very lulzy yarn and none of the psychiatric weird mircea_popescu mentioned was in it...
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: wut
mircea_popescu: wait, is it actually a different story ? ie, not with these ?
asciilifeform: well, there was praying mantis involved
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: the result of training idjits that their words are the most important thing and that yelling 'rape' makes the 'rapist' stop voluntarily if not arrested by the police
pete_dushenski: also, does anyone have a suggestion for viewing/using the tumblr dashboard that doesn't involve this latest invasion of spamz. every second fucking post is some derpy 'trending' meme that completely kills teh mood !
asciilifeform doesn't have useful suggestions for viewing arsebook either
asciilifeform: or 'myspace', etc.
asciilifeform: why even.
mircea_popescu: punkman similar but no
pete_dushenski: because pr0nz
asciilifeform: the tards helpfully segregated themselves, why dig'em back up ?
punkman: asciilifeform: there is porn
asciilifeform: 'this is a mousetrap.' 'bbbbutt there's cheeze!!11'
punkman: also describes computer
pete_dushenski: mousetrap grew up from nowhere seriously in last month. before that, fine.
trinque: oh dear.
funkenstein_: lol we can file that cheese girl under "white are better" right?
kakobrekla: that is not eve cheese
kakobrekla: even*
kakobrekla: 5% cheese, 95% plastic
funkenstein_: well kako, at least labelled with only 26 characters like my fantasy of divine imagery
pete_dushenski: tripleslash: fix your connection wouldja
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23832 @ 0.00052109 = 12.4186 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: ^that bar graph will be even lulzier in 50 years when those 'tech giants' 'go kodak'
kakobrekla: as it stands now, all ''german manufacturers' are using 'us tech' and no 'us tech firm' is using a 'german manufacturer'
kakobrekla: rounding errors are possible.
pete_dushenski: perhaps microshit notwithstanding, use != depend upon
pete_dushenski: there are ready replacements for apple, google, amazon, and facebook
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski found a replacement for apple ?!!
asciilifeform: pray tell ?
asciilifeform: is it a broomstick ?
pete_dushenski: this is from the perspective of 'deutschland manufaktur', recall
pete_dushenski: wtf does volkswagen need crapple for exactly ?
asciilifeform: if they were to attempt abandoning microshit - would be just as dependent on crapple.
asciilifeform: failing this, poettering.
kakobrekla: desktops for designing (with ps) and selling the outcome with ipads
pete_dushenski: yes, poettering, the 'us tech giant'
asciilifeform: omitting the x86 duopoly ?
asciilifeform: (soon to be intel monopoly)
pete_dushenski: we agree this is unlikely
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mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> 5% cheese, 95% plastic << word.
mircea_popescu: fucking bs.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> as it stands now, all ''german manufacturers' are using 'us tech' and no 'us tech firm' is using a 'german manufacturer' << you ever looked in the parking lot of these "tech giants" ?
mircea_popescu: not that many consumer choice 1983 lebarons out there.
kakobrekla: teslas or whatever 20 liter trucks?
kakobrekla: any remaining vw will get called off anyway
mircea_popescu: bout half euro imports. the rest japanese.
mircea_popescu: you can't drive a truck and be in tech, it's like being an efette wwf fan
asciilifeform: 'tesla' is about as common as ferrari here.
mircea_popescu: you live with the bureaucrats not the technocrats alf.
kakobrekla: so i google 'google parking lot' and get 'Google employee lives in a truck in the parking lot ' as first hit.
mircea_popescu: why don't you daimler google parking lot instead!
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2X5CAWK.txt )
asciilifeform: i had these mousetraps.
kakobrekla: to be clear, by truck i mean the SUVs
kakobrekla: i thought rednecks drive that
mircea_popescu: yeah but redneck country is socal/burbank/bakersfield
mircea_popescu: whereas foogle/gashbook/bapple/etc are more like sf/bay area/fauntleroyland
kakobrekla: hm, ok.
asciilifeform turned down a gig there not long ago
mircea_popescu: bakersfield ?
asciilifeform: 'tis cursed by the gods.
mircea_popescu: not more than shittington
asciilifeform: costs literally 5x per sq. metre vs here.
asciilifeform actually did the homework, even
mircea_popescu: what is it these days ?
asciilifeform: and they don't pay 5x.
punkman: but you could live on parking lot
mircea_popescu: you could couchsurf!
mircea_popescu: MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF!
asciilifeform: asked a phriend, he (with horrified face) said, 'people live differently in those parts. no one has a flat to himself, it's for extroverts, they pack'em 5+ in, they hang out in bars after the bell and only go home to sleep'
mircea_popescu: extroverts my foot
mircea_popescu: i do not know one single sf extrovert.
phf: sf is nicer then dc though, they got a giant park with a view, and food is much better. (actual japanese and mexican foods)
mircea_popescu: it's all shellshocked/ptss mousy schmucks
phf: *than
asciilifeform: this is like asking if a man sitting on a stake is a catamite.
asciilifeform: from a certain pov - yes.
mircea_popescu: dude get the fuck out, missouri has a park with a view.
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking state.
phf: true, to be fair, anywhere is nicer then dc. i thought ascii was overly dramatic, but damn is this place bad.
hanbot: sf was great 15 yrs ago ;/
mircea_popescu: why, cuz you were 16 ?
asciilifeform: 'great' means, without exception, that there is no meat within 40m of my chair that i didn't put there.
hanbot: well, it had good air. the panhandlers were entertaining. i was 16.
mircea_popescu: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2013/11/01/next-steve-jobs-is-12-year-old-mexican-girl-wired-magazine-says/ << reading "the press" sixteen to thrity months later has some remarkable advantages.
assbot: The Next Steve Jobs Is A 12-Year-Old Mexican Girl, Wired Magazine Says | Fox News Latino ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP8NUw )
mircea_popescu: for one thing - they aren't EVER right.
mircea_popescu: not like, 50-50 duds, like anyone throwing darts.
mircea_popescu: no, these schmucks manage to always be wrong.
mircea_popescu: everything in the us was much better in the 90s. buffett-style "i believe in america" merely sounded overoptimistic, hadn't yet caught this greenish hue of past-ridiculous senility like something found in a fridge on the side of a demolishing yard.
mircea_popescu: they made movies about how hey, "america gotta shape up soon".
mircea_popescu: yeah. right.
asciilifeform: hanbot: i bet it's perfectly livable at 500+k/y
assbot: Fuck you and your stupid epub. Also, David Thorne's 2nd book (it isn't really very good). on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LuN21d )
asciilifeform: or if you're an ant.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14776 @ 0.00051086 = 7.5485 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: if you're going to throw half a million a year on living expenses why the fuck would you not just rent a raj palace in india and install human powered ac.
phf: ben_vulpes: just to clarify, literal translation would be that i can talk without censoring myself. but mp explained the actual meaning, that i'm not quite sure how to put in words better. it's something like, can talk on point, without revisions on account of this or that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: just so
asciilifeform: antarctica would also weigh something like 500 but for different reasons
asciilifeform: point was what it takes to make a particular godforsaken shithole livable.
hanbot: asciilifeform by now, i dunno. old friend is about there, relegated to san jose armpit, and last i checked the only thing in his house was a box of cheezeits.
mircea_popescu: actually most of siberia/alaska are pretty much rent free and from what i hear rather enjoyable.
mircea_popescu: for the man with the skills, of course.
asciilifeform: if you like your electron microscope made from bear skin and powered by seal fat - then yes!
mircea_popescu: my problem is more in line with "nobody's gonna fucking shave her snatch at 30 below", but yeah.
mircea_popescu: in other news, a "368 page book" reads in a coupla hours, and consists of 90% recycled website material + some letters from weird.
mircea_popescu: "new york times best seller list" items are radically not worth cutting down the trees.
asciilifeform: wai wut
asciilifeform: that turd was 'best seller' ?!
punkman: the previous book was
mircea_popescu: the epub thing
mircea_popescu: and for that matter wgat's his name, the guy with short fingers that quit duke lawschool ?
asciilifeform: speaking of alaska/siberia/etc, i hear ru now has a 'homestead act'
mircea_popescu: then made a horrible movie
punkman: tucker max
mircea_popescu: ;;google the guy with short fingers that quit duke lawschool and made a horrible movie
gribble: Full text of "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" - Internet Archive: <https://archive.org/stream/IHopeTheyServeBeerInHell/TuckerMax-IHopeTheyServeBeerInHellebook-OcrPdf_djvu.txt>; The Now Infamous Charity Auction Debacle « TuckerMax.com: <http://tuckermax.com/stories/the-now-infamous-charity-auction-debacle/>; A Man for All Seasons (1966) - Quotes - IMDb: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: they're handing out 1hectar/man, with the proviso that it cannot be sold
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> dude get the fuck out, missouri has a park with a view. << Truefax. There's even a tiny tram you can ride to the top of the Arch for more view
mircea_popescu: check out google on the ball!
punkman: wow
hanbot: ahaha
mircea_popescu: apparently my native oop is intuitively alligned with google sql
mircea_popescu: BEAT THAT!
BingoBoingo: ;;google Times Beach
gribble: Times Beach, Missouri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri>; Ill Fated Times Beach, Missouri - Legends of America: <http://www.legendsofamerica.com/mo-timesbeach.html>; S/R 7-8: The Times Beach Story (Marilyn Leistner): <http://www.greens.org/s-r/078/07-09.html>
BingoBoingo: ^ also a park nao
assbot: Homestead Act for Russian Far East – Putin supports free land handout — RT Russian politics ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP9MUS )
mircea_popescu: been like that forever. also iirc alaska still has homestead here and there.
punkman: from the cellar department: Suntory Yamazaki 12yo, seriously smooth https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3a/db/10/3adb107d83b463eb1ac96e792b5eeb77.jpg
asciilifeform: folks who enjoy blowing the permafrost with ammonal to dig latrine - know where to do.
mircea_popescu: o ffs. japanese whiskey ?
asciilifeform: what next, french seppuku ?
asciilifeform: german bukkake ?
mircea_popescu: i guess we should be thankful grain at least grew in that shitty island.
punkman: because jp otaku
mircea_popescu: otherwise it'd be "WOOD ALCOHOL!!!11" all over.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> o ffs. japanese whiskey ? << I knew I picked a good time to try sobriety
assbot: Sean Connery , Suntory Crest, before the meeting commercial - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1LuO7pU )
BingoBoingo is convinced real whiskey is only made by people with pickup trucks or tartans
phf: men whisky(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: isn't ammonal about on par with black powder, in the sense that if it gets wet you can go salt your food with it ?
asciilifeform: tell this to gulag
asciilifeform: (quite possibly true, i have not used it personally)
punkman: well, I'm no malt connoisseur but I'd put it right next to similarly-priced scottish bottles
BingoBoingo: Scotch is "warm-up" whiskey to get the palate primed for rye whiskey followed by all of the cheap bourbon
BingoBoingo: "Hear hear. When you buy Old Crow, you know what you're getting. Old Crow is not a night on the town with a beautiful young debutante. Old Crow is not a conversation with a craggy and learned professor. Old Crow is half an hour in a motel room with a fifty year-old prostitute who maybe doesn't look like much but still gets the job done, dammit, and sometimes that's all you want. Sometimes that's exactly what you want."
BingoBoingo: From another review: "It smells very heavily of alcohol first off, but the taste is surprisingly sweet, like candy corn and pears (but mostly bourbon:)... It is my go-to whisky, and being a Kentuckian of discerning taste, I'd like to think that says something towards it's character. Two of Ulysses S. Grant's fellow Generals were said to have complained to Lincoln personally of Grant's drunkenness and it's detriment in the line of
BingoBoingo: duty. Of this, Lincoln famously wrote back, saying: "By the way, gentlemen, can either of you tell me where General Grant procures his whiskey?""
phf: "came home last night full'a fifth of old crow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63850 @ 0.00051064 = 32.6044 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: wazzis, abortion pr0n ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall the old dinamo flashlights ?
asciilifeform: cunt-actuated ?
mircea_popescu: in romanian - work&light.
asciilifeform takes off hat
mircea_popescu: we can presume.
mircea_popescu: cuntactuation.
mircea_popescu: like that famous roman general, cuntactor.
deedbot-: [Trilema] Gunnery Sargeant Dop, or - The Renaissance Man - http://trilema.com/2015/gunnery-sargeant-dop-or-the-renaissance-man/
asciilifeform: spiffy pet in pic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00050971 = 2.7015 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29833 @ 0.00050965 = 15.2044 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13567 @ 0.0005088 = 6.9029 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46983 @ 0.00050867 = 23.8988 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7530 @ 0.00050784 = 3.824 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56150 @ 0.00050678 = 28.4557 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4834 @ 0.00050678 = 2.4498 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00050637 = 9.8236 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3333 @ 0.00050621 = 1.6872 BTC [-]
assbot: throne of heaven ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwMCvf )
assbot: A True Church - The Throne, Heaven, and the Kingdom Are God. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwNkbQ )
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