Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-10-17 | 2015-10-19 → ↓
asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu unearthed tlp again... http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/02/the_rage_of_the_average_joe.html << exemplifies my least favourite aspects.
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Rage Of The Average Joe ... ( http://bit.ly/1LBO0xp )
asciilifeform: per tlp, a man of action is ipso facto insane and incoherent.
mircea_popescu: this happens to be true.
mircea_popescu: all it says is that a system of thought is ipso facto worthless, but hey, i can see why he prefers the counterfactual statement of it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this piece especially reads entirely like the вялотекущая шизофрения crap.
mircea_popescu: haha. well, in truth the guy's politics are utterly indefensible.
asciilifeform: stack ?
asciilifeform: iirc he had no politics. just an airplane.
mircea_popescu: he just understands some stuff exceptionally well, but it didn't seem to have percolated through.
mircea_popescu: no, ballas'
mircea_popescu: one could hope that the reason he dropped off the map is because existential crisis finally triggered
mircea_popescu: but it's a lot more likely he just found something to shut the brain up with
mircea_popescu: kids, job, xanax, whatever.
mircea_popescu: i do believe him when he keeps saying he drinks a lot. he'd have to. the damage imbecile "social agreements" do to smart people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.0004915 = 9.9283 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: his dns last changed in... sept. 2012. entirely possible that the man is dead.
mircea_popescu: dead goes in the "kids, job, xanax, whatever" list.
asciilifeform: took the best job. the biggest xanax.
mircea_popescu: but the point stands. the only thing you can definitely say about a paradigm (kuhn sense) is that it has nothing to do with reality. the one thing people involved WISH to say is that it is the only basis upon which science can be produced. which happens to be true.
mircea_popescu: once you buy into the theory that "the state isn't the CAUSE of criminality but the protection from it", you'll necessarily swallow the "science is the path to knowledge" string all the way into "paradigm good".
mircea_popescu: sure, it can be good, but it leaves you with some things you don't know what to do with
mircea_popescu: that in other times would have been your life.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, wine awaits. laters!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00049064 = 8.6353 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12914 @ 0.00048485 = 6.2614 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15438 @ 0.00048485 = 7.4851 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29250 @ 0.0004882 = 14.2799 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.0004882 = 5.1993 BTC [+]
HeySteve: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-10-2015#1300868 < yes indeed. wanted to ask you, as a landlord, if a larger deposit or possibly additional contract terms outside the paper rental contract would entice you to look at something like this
assbot: Logged on 17-10-2015 00:19:08; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell heysteve re: real estate, you ever read http://www.contravex.com/2015/05/13/tips-and-tricks-for-being-a-successful-small-time-landlord/ ?
HeySteve: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300458 < it's true that tenants can threaten to withhold keys and/or trash the place but if this was common practice then this type of deposit fraud wouldn't be such a widespread problem. what many tenants do is refuse to pay the last month's rent but this is only viable if the deposit is set at 1x month's rent. many places it's at 2x or
assbot: Logged on 16-10-2015 13:19:58; mircea_popescu: and if he doesn't, well, twice the deposit worth of damage + whatever it costs him to break in should be just about fair.
HeySteve: as high as 6x
HeySteve: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300464 < not trying to save African children with magic cryptos, the point is there's a big demand for such a service
assbot: Logged on 16-10-2015 13:21:44; mircea_popescu: this "o noes we are opressed" talk is the stock in trade of the worthless class. for good reason.
HeySteve: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300465 < no driving involved, either a local rental agent will arbitrate (if necessary) or photo / video / expert testimony "evidence" will be uploaded somewhere to be judged
assbot: Logged on 16-10-2015 13:23:33; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300279 << so a) you'll spend your life driving between bickering nuts. this is a worse deal than what psychs get, at least there you gotta drive to his office. ; b) the blockchain and everything else is entirely superfluous here. your entire idea is "hey, make me the mp of renting in south africa". maybe they will or maybe they won't but you really don'
HeySteve: as for armed thugs, we certainly have those: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12525859 - but this is aimed more at commerical and middle to upper class residential property
assbot: BBC News - In pictures: South Africa's ruthless 'Red Ants' eviction squad ... ( http://bit.ly/1LCjZ0q )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19583 @ 0.0004945 = 9.6838 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8023 @ 0.00049565 = 3.9766 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7584 @ 0.00049566 = 3.7591 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00049375 = 9.3319 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 00:05:56; mircea_popescu: blocker's in past tense now ?
assbot: 144.76.118.88:8333 - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1NOwjgr )
assbot: 148.251.6.214:8333 - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1NOwkAQ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25250 @ 0.00049375 = 12.4672 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4994 @ 0.00049375 = 2.4658 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up iinaj
mircea_popescu: HeySteve the point is there's a big demand for such a service << yes, but the demand is from people who aren't willing to take any steps to enforce it. and it's for you to magically oppress property holders on their behalf. this isn't how property works, the fact that the landlords hold that property "free and clear" specifically means that they are immune from a guy named heysteve and his plans for the future. this is
mircea_popescu: the very POINT of holding property.
mircea_popescu: and the dispute isn't whether "You have them" or not, the dispute is whether you are one. because that's fundamentally what you're trying to do here, redistribute resources "for fairness" is how the government calls it, but you're neither a government nor have the option to be come one. at the level where you go into business, the thing is not a government but a gang.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00049116 = 11.4931 BTC [-] {4}
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, I understand your point. my gf agrees with you. I can make this better for property holders if tenants pay a double (or even triple) deposit, or perhaps I must think on further improvements. those making a tidy living off scamming tenants will of course never go for it, but a good-faith landlord might appreciate having more insurance against property damage / non-payment.
HeySteve: also, landlords do compete for smart tenants with options, as as per pete's point 1. so here is an aspect other than lowering prices which owners can use to attract good tenants (who can appreciate the benefits of "no" custodial risk).
mircea_popescu: no landlord makes a tidy living off scaming tenants.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying the mcdonalds makes a tidy living off giving out wrong change.
mircea_popescu: seems dubious landlords compete for passive-agressive tenants with no options. they do compete for rich tenants, but you don't have a value proposition for those guys.
mircea_popescu: if they get pissed off they just sue.
mircea_popescu: (and they can do A LOT of damage with that, many jurisdiction have the notion of problem landlord in some manner, and you can often get treble damages, heck in one case a guy i know got the landlord kicked out of town. as in, had to sell ALL his property and not buy there again, ever.)
mircea_popescu: anyway, not for me to change your mind. let me only suggest that once you get this business off the ground there's a ready avenue to expand : you could do the same for paycheck loans.
mircea_popescu: probably pond shops also.
mircea_popescu: none of this will ever work in any sense, but if you play it right and get lucky might get you dinner with obama, which... i hear the food sucks and the table manners are worse, but then again they're not inviting me so it's all good.
HeySteve: <+mircea_popescu> no landlord makes a tidy living off scaming tenants. <- perhaps I should say, "make frequent bonuses." there's a rental agency infamous for it in SA and also a few private owners I could mention. it's also very common for them to not keep the deposit in an interest-bearing account by law or to skim the interest. from that same rental agency, tenants apparently get back
HeySteve: <0.01% over a year's occupancy.
mircea_popescu: what's interest in sa ?
HeySteve: competing for rich tenants, well I offer them the guaranteed return of their deposit without the hassle of litigation. courts may be effective in some cases but there's always legal risk and time costs involved.
mircea_popescu: not really. you're offering them the opportunity to push up your venture for free on their own influence/dime. which they won't take - if they were the sort of derp to fall for that they'd be on reddit complaining about how they have no money and the landlord's scamming them.
HeySteve: standard bank interest is about 6%
mircea_popescu: so you're saying a tenant taking a property with a market value of 120k for a year at the usual ~10% ie 1k a month is being gypped for the fabulous sum of 60 bux ? this can't quite be right can it ?
HeySteve: well, what happens in practice is the agency spends those funds and claims the rate is that low to disguise the fact
mircea_popescu: anyway. if there's actually a problem agency you got there, the solution is either for the tenants to start an association/class action suit if you have them/whatever is the equivalent in the jurisdiction ; or else for a competitor to start advertising deposit fairness.
mircea_popescu: specifically : there exist two classes of solutions and they both come from stakeholders in the problem.
mircea_popescu: what's a property manager spend money on anyway ?! they're all cash flow positive, that's the point.
mircea_popescu: if they have expenses, the only reason can possibly be insanely shitty tenants,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00049708 = 1.7398 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: which keep damaging the property.
HeySteve: lol there's plenty of those here, could tell some stories. but in this case of this agency who are more high end market, it's the expense of running a slush fund
mircea_popescu: a what ?
mircea_popescu: what's this, the cia rental agency ?
HeySteve: like a hookers and coke fund, you know, it's bezzle
HeySteve: I don't know where the money goes but they are raking in all these deposits
mircea_popescu: a slush fund is money a government body, such as an embassy, secret service, captured "business" runs to bribe people with.
mircea_popescu: this is not in any sense related to the concept of bezzle.
HeySteve: ok, noted
mircea_popescu: well, if you don't know where it goes maybe it's legitimate ? maybe they actually spend ~1.1k after each tenant leaves, on average.
HeySteve: they inflate the repair and cleaning expenses at least 5x from the bills I've seen
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00049427 = 2.0759 BTC [-]
HeySteve: $25 light bulbs etc.
mircea_popescu: well... the new expensive ones are about there no ?
HeySteve: about competitors advertising deposit fairness, hope they will use this system I propose to enforce it.
HeySteve: well maybe for marijuana growers but I mean just regular 60W bulbs, shouldn't be more than $5 here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12376 @ 0.00049709 = 6.152 BTC [+] {2}
HeySteve: the china cheapies are like $2.5 max
mircea_popescu: no but i mean the "energy efficient" mercury dispensers.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14499 @ 0.00049931 = 7.2395 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: they're often in rental units because hey, "energy efficiency". i have to take them out every time.
HeySteve: ah right, sure those are more but even if they're upgrading them it's still over-priced and outside contract
HeySteve: I read about you finding "MP" old style bulbs
mircea_popescu: you have NO IDEA what an impact quality of lighting has on quality of life.
HeySteve: what was the story there, random find or they actually made them for you?
mircea_popescu: haha no, actual light bulb (proper incandescents, not the bullshit halogens emplaced in an incandescent ampoule) is still produced, and still sold.
shinohai: I am glad that someone still likes incandescent bulbs. I have an entire case of GE 60 and 100 watts in my basement.
mircea_popescu: i have no problem flood-lighting industrial spaces in sodium lamps, or blowing the shit out of consumable beauties in the studio with halogen projectors.
mircea_popescu: but at home, ima have the warm tones of old style filament, tyvm.
shinohai: I like them for reading, I mainly use them in my library/lab
pete_dushenski: top o' the mornin', lads !
HeySteve: I have a UV light from an old apparatus I should find a use for
HeySteve: hey pete_dushenski
mircea_popescu: anyway, as a take-away : if you're depressed, before you try seroquel or whatever, try changing your lightbulbs.
pete_dushenski: and fiddling with your computer's screen settings
mircea_popescu: yeah. evne if you don't have a crt, 6300k is better than 9
HeySteve: heard about the SAD lamps but screen settings?
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1301624 << there's nothing outside the paper rental contract at the end of the day. but i guess i'm still about foggy about what 'this' is
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 07:40:52; HeySteve: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-10-2015#1300868 < yes indeed. wanted to ask you, as a landlord, if a larger deposit or possibly additional contract terms outside the paper rental contract would entice you to look at something like this
shinohai: I suppose when my supply runs out I will have to learn to blow glass and make my own.
mircea_popescu: shinohai or go to china town.
pete_dushenski: i set my screens at 5`500k in the daytime and dial it back to 4`100k before bed to wind me down
HeySteve: yeah warm white bulbs look a lot better than cool blue, or however they call them
pete_dushenski: ;;seen mats
gribble: mats was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 6 days, 12 hours, 22 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <mats> it was due for a few weeks
shinohai: When I find them in my travels, I will generally buy them whether one or ten. I bought these cases from a store that went out of biz.
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 265.13, Best ask: 265.23, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 265.13, 24 hour volume: 24875.3493399, 24 hour low: 264.0, 24 hour high: 275.0, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00049964 = 4.097 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: HeySteve: as high as 6x << that's. bananas. and not the kind for practising deepthroats either.
mircea_popescu: aww, ethereum only down 1% today ?
HeySteve: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1301624 << there's nothing outside the paper rental contract at the end of the day. but i guess i'm still about foggy about what 'this' is < haven't reached clarity yet myself but this discussion is helping a lot. basically a multiple of the rental deposit normally paid to the landlord gets escrowed in cryptocurrency.
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 07:40:52; HeySteve: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-10-2015#1300868 < yes indeed. wanted to ask you, as a landlord, if a larger deposit or possibly additional contract terms outside the paper rental contract would entice you to look at something like this
HeySteve: pete_dushenski, apparently that's the standard garantia in uruguay
HeySteve: pretty brutal but that's what I found when looking at renting that side
pete_dushenski: aha. well who gives a shit about uruguay ?
pete_dushenski: just cuz they legalised weed doesn't mean anyone wants to live there
mircea_popescu: so let me get this straight, you want to give people too poor to litigate, too stupid / desocialized to talk to the landlord and too scared to act the option "you can either pay 100 to the landlord as deposit or 300 to me and unlike the landlord I PROMISE to give it back (maybe), except im not anywhere near you and you can't burn my house down" ?
mircea_popescu: this is your idea ?
mircea_popescu: they'll take the 100.
pete_dushenski: HeySteve: standard bank interest is about 6% << also uruguay ? or mars ?
mircea_popescu: in fact, your idea sounds to alf like it was invented by the landlords in question, because the mere presence of this bad (horrible!) option on the table makes the miserable first more palatable than it would be on its own.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski aparently south africa. i have nfi.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: aww, ethereum only down 1% today ? << sun's barely up.
mircea_popescu: "today" as in "past 24"
pete_dushenski: no trading on the sabbath
HeySteve: pete_dushenski in south africa
HeySteve: but I wouldn't recommend it as a carry trade destination
pete_dushenski: so THAT'S why fluffypony's so comfy there !
mircea_popescu: i have my doubts, tbh.
pete_dushenski: not just the hot wife with the sexy middle finger
mircea_popescu: you know "hot wife" is a term of art.
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, no promise, 2 of 3 escrow
mircea_popescu: HeySteve what ?
pete_dushenski: HeySteve that's just MORE counterparties, y'know
pete_dushenski: not helping your case
mircea_popescu: the outcome is that he gets his deposit back SOMETIMES. so maybe.
HeySteve: well no, tenant and landlord are 2 parties. if both sides keep to contract, my only role is telling them how to set it up
mircea_popescu: but the tenant still only gets his deposit back maybe.
mircea_popescu: and you promise. for all he knows you throw dimes to figure out who to side with.
HeySteve: well, say landlord claims "but you broke lightbulb so I'm keeping it all." there's a process based on evidence.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the failures of "evidence based" in "process", be it political, juridical or otherwise
pete_dushenski can't imagine the cost of this 'evidence gathering'
mircea_popescu: you are entirely unequipped to handle this.
HeySteve: and it's public, so if I take bribes pretty soon it'll become obvious
mircea_popescu: you mean, like it is "obvious" that the rental agency suycks ?
mircea_popescu: here, it's obvious : you take bribes.
mircea_popescu: i read it on the internet.
shinohai: "Dear Mr. Landlord: I knew you were probably gonna keep my deposit anyway, so I just went ahead and trashed up the place good so you can keep the deposit."
mircea_popescu: except they already did that and are lying about it now.
HeySteve: the evidence thing, at start and conclusion of contract, tenant and landlord document condition of property with photo and video
mircea_popescu: so ima spend two hours shooting amateur footage to (maybe!) save 60 bucks a year from now ?
mircea_popescu: what do you do when the landlord and the tenant each upload a video and they don't even look like they come from the same place ?
HeySteve: so you can say if damages or dirtiness occur and tenant loses fair cost to fix that, or landlord is trying to pull a fast one and doesn't get to keep deposit
mircea_popescu: you can tell if dirtyness occurs from amateur shot digicams ?!
HeySteve: maybe not a fine layer of dust
HeySteve: but if someone uses the microwave as a BBQ (happens here) then it's clear
HeySteve: you know, big expensive damages are obvious
HeySteve: and that's mostly the costly stuff, although trying to think of exceptional cases of subtle but costly damage
mircea_popescu: not only is this a horrible idea, but it is my considered opinion that you are very far yet from the intellectual maturity that'd allow you to marry, let alone raise children, and that running any kind of business is many many years in the future AFTER THAT.
HeySteve: those would probably need an expert
mircea_popescu: so let's talk of something else.
HeySteve: well, that's a bit blunt but I'll certainly consider the objections and problems.
pete_dushenski: HeySteve in large part, that's why ~people~ hang around here : the bluntness
assbot: A photographer edits out our smartphones to show our strange and lonely new world - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1MMr27L )
HeySteve: pete_dushenski well I agree, it has made things clearer. helps me when approaching people who won't speak their mind, knowing how they will might it.
HeySteve: *might see it, rather
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36011 @ 0.00050065 = 18.0289 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1301783 <<< Better for self-improvement, no? We can go back to reddit and have fellow narcissistic trolls tell you "it's not you, it's them." Now with more upboats for your feels.
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 14:40:40; pete_dushenski: HeySteve in large part, that's why ~people~ hang around here : the bluntness
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00050165 = 6.7723 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: it's not like i hate you or anything. the problem is that you're intellectually imuno-compromised so to speak, by which i mean : you get ideas, which is fine, but also a common function of the human mind. but then when you go to evaluate them, your evaluator is broken, and when the evaluator is called into question it's discovered in turn that the building blocks are also broken and in turn the building blocks for thos
mircea_popescu: e. this is a very vulnerable position to be in, and it requires immediate and insistent attention.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.00050229 = 13.8381 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8915 @ 0.00050396 = 4.4928 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28707 @ 0.00050656 = 14.5418 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00050665 = 11.2476 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [WTS] My rare books and historical documents for your bitcoins! : BitMarket ... ( http://bit.ly/1GkyLs5 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00050797 = 7.1116 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00050666 = 6.6879 BTC [-]
assbot: Amsterdam Photographer Wanders Around At Night Customizing Stranger's Cars With Cardboard Mods | Geekologie ... ( http://bit.ly/1KhVMHm )
mircea_popescu: omaigawd these idiots with forcing cigarette packs to depict whatever valuable messages.
mircea_popescu: manufacturers are putting stuff like "it's what's inside that counts" on the remaining space and winning with it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1301653 << correct. the idiot-poor imagine that the source of their misfortune is the malfeasance of a ~particular~ landlord. rather than the existence of landlords as a class.
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 13:49:52; mircea_popescu: this is like saying the mcdonalds makes a tidy living off giving out wrong change.
mircea_popescu: the existence of landlords as a class is no more to their detriment than the existence of fire as a phenomena.
asciilifeform: fire as a phenomenon is a downer when you're in hell.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.00050464 = 34.9211 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: i know, i know, "british researches discover antioxidants hold secret to eternal lyf"
asciilifeform: rentierism is not this inescapable thing, like oxidation.
mircea_popescu: but it is.
asciilifeform: my grandfathers paid 0 rent.
mircea_popescu: and lived in a shithole.
asciilifeform: whereas i pay to live in shithole.
mircea_popescu: before fire people had 0 fires!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. because none of the tools you hoard, your grandfather could have had.
asciilifeform: i'd trade it all for pen, paper, and zero orcs
mircea_popescu: they are, much like the jet, mere prongs. extensions. that require the whole story, and the whole story is that finance.
mircea_popescu: this is moot, because you are not engaging in commerce.
asciilifeform: naturally.
mircea_popescu: your grandfather traded the pen paper and 0 orcs for this, and this is what you have.
asciilifeform: nobody's showing up with time machine and asking 'wanne be peano?'
asciilifeform: grandfather traded; i - given half a chance - will trade right fucking back.
mircea_popescu: (note that the 0 orcs in THAT case comes from lack of differentiation. there's a lot fewer retarded children at 2 weeks than at 2 years of age. guess why ?)
asciilifeform: but let's pretend grandfather had lived in usa. there, folks paid for five-room house what today a schmuck pays for a car. (sums converted per any algo you like)
mircea_popescu: "all my grandcarbons traded soot for gaseous form, said the co2. and given half a chance, i'll trade it right the fuck back, said he. and so it was, and had been a number of times prior.)
mircea_popescu: but we can't pretend like this.
asciilifeform: hey all the co2 needs is to sit in the sun...
asciilifeform: a bit harder for man.
mircea_popescu: for a co2 this is hard work. from each according to his complexitits.
assbot: Rent is so high in San Francisco that I’m a software engineer and I live in a van - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONxrj2 )
mircea_popescu: i've had this discussion with old folk in romania. they have a very distinct FEEL for the old style settled village life in that space. i have a very precise understanding of it, because they're cows and i'm the young lord. nevertheless, the point stands :
mircea_popescu: yes, "all the girls were happy and all the boys lalala". but did they know how to suck cock ?
mircea_popescu: "oh, we did without", is the answer, if the guy;'s not too much of an intellectual coward and the matter's even considered.
asciilifeform: they did without z80 even!
mircea_popescu: fine, so you did without this, and that. now you do without this other and that other. so what of it ?
mircea_popescu: "it was better". i'm sure. until it is and all you can think of is how to trade dad's old house for two shiny new ipads and a van.
mircea_popescu: IT MOVES111
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu knows the old legend of how manhattan was sold ?
asciilifeform: same idea, no ?
mircea_popescu: or moreover, perhaps, but i don't think you have the right idea.
asciilifeform: same from the white man's pov. the indians, of course, laughed, because they had no intention of vacating
mircea_popescu: here's the thing : at the time the sale completed you didn't know who is pulling the dud. they thought they got equal value.
mircea_popescu: THIS is why landlords.
mircea_popescu: some people want to go all in. some do not.
mircea_popescu: you have to have deals between them to allow each to get what he wants.
asciilifeform: sure. when i need a bulldozer, i rent it.
mircea_popescu: oxidation.
asciilifeform: but bulldozer shops, as a class, have not removed the option of keeping the bulk of my paycheque.
mircea_popescu: and fire as a class has not removed the option of keeping the bulk of your skin.
mircea_popescu: up to your stupid head.
asciilifeform: this'd be more like the uv background in new zealand.
mircea_popescu: so yes, you're right : the idiot-poor imagine that the source of their misfortune is the malfeasance of a ~particular~ event, rather than the large clump of shit they carry around on their shoulders.
asciilifeform: at a certain point, 'keeping your skin' becomes an all-consuming project.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu makes it sound like 'these morons are stuffing their fingers into mains sockets, all they gotta do is stop!'
asciilifeform: but what would 'stop' look like? let's have a worked example ?
mircea_popescu: depends. what's the example gonna be scored on ?
asciilifeform: plausibility ?
asciilifeform: with 'yes you can take the finger out of the socket!' being a 1.0
asciilifeform: (entirely feasible)
asciilifeform: and 'fly to mars on your farts, find phreedom there!' a 0.0
mircea_popescu: so what exactly is the start situation, 25 derp with 100k in college debt, no skills, no resources, no social net, in the middle of a shitland like the us ?
asciilifeform: nah, this is cheating
asciilifeform: this fella is mega-loaded
asciilifeform: with not-being-bound-to-the-soil
mircea_popescu: so make the situation up.
asciilifeform: let's have a programmer, of some skill, no social net, no savings, pays 100K rent to make 120K in some godforsaken saltmine, in usa
mircea_popescu: forget about it. go up to every woman over 50 you run into, kneel before her, kiss her shoes, beg her to give you something to do. explain that you have made such a mess of your life, this is actually the only sane avenue out.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu offers the broomstick !
asciilifeform: i knew it.
mircea_popescu: there's no rule that you must LIKE IT.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: work this example. so schmuck sat down on this broomstick. now what happens ?
asciilifeform: god forgives his sins?
asciilifeform: how does this work.
mircea_popescu: no, that's exactly what happens. his worthless existence is forfeit, but he'll hopefully have some kids a little less retarded than him
mircea_popescu: A LITTLE.
mircea_popescu: five or so generations out he might even have reached humanity.
mircea_popescu: with some luck, anyway.
asciilifeform: how does the >50 woman produce the kids ?
asciilifeform: out of clay ?
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 16:15:41; mircea_popescu: omaigawd these idiots with forcing cigarette packs to depict whatever valuable messages.
assbot: Smoking causes cancer, and other humourously enraging consequences of regulatory capture | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONzraR )
mircea_popescu: no, see, it is not your job to contribute anything intellectually to this.
mircea_popescu: never you mind how she does it. you're the clay.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski aha.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu will be delighted to learn that we already had this algo. it was called 'the last bullet health, life, and retirement pension co.'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu 99.5% 'smoking is bad'-ery
pete_dushenski: per pack
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even similar.
asciilifeform: entirely similar. schmuck: 'i have a problem.' commander: slides pistol with one round across the table
mircea_popescu: not at all.
mircea_popescu: the case here is, schmuck : when i drink coffee, my eye hurts. commander : take the spoon out of cup before driniking. schmuck : i would rather kill myself.
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, the problem is the broken brain that fails to comprehend how spoons work is also unsurprisingly going to incorrectly evaluate suicide as an option.
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 16:20:12; asciilifeform: i'd trade it all for pen, paper, and zero orcs
mircea_popescu: spinoza had sand.
mircea_popescu: certainly no vagina. thinking of this... i wonder how vaginal diamond polishing would work.
mircea_popescu: "insert and twerk"
mircea_popescu: i wonder if one could make money with a new-age-y brand of "swarovki" crystals that you... personalize.
pete_dushenski: it's fairly mind-blowing how much money 'swarovski' makes
pete_dushenski: waaay bigger scam than even de beers
mircea_popescu: course. cheaper.
asciilifeform: actually the logic is there, even if mircea_popescu does not see it.
asciilifeform: 'this problem will not be solved for you personally, pray that your grandchildren get to live like people' <--> 'but i don't want to have children, i want to live like people ~myself~'
asciilifeform: ergo == 'last bullet pension fund'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with diseased mental states is not that they don't have their own, often very well drawn out, self-consistent "logic".
mircea_popescu: the problem with diseased mental states is that THEY ARE IMPRODUCTIVE.
mircea_popescu: which is the original complaint you formulated
mircea_popescu: also happens to be how various nuts end up at the doctor. "what i do doesn't work" "don't do that" "ARE YOU KIDDING ME!??!?!?!"
asciilifeform: well you were the one who diagnosed the patient as terminal, no ?
mircea_popescu: i diagnosed the patient's evaluatory mechanism as terminated.
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 16:38:17; mircea_popescu: forget about it. go up to every woman over 50 you run into, kneel before her, kiss her shoes, beg her to give you something to do. explain that you have made such a mess of your life, this is actually the only sane avenue out.
mircea_popescu: aha. so ?
mircea_popescu: what, you think humiliation ends life ?
mircea_popescu: if only. so fewer politicians running around.
asciilifeform: not precisely. more that ~redemptive humiliation~ only exists for young woman.
asciilifeform: (and possibly young man, army recruit)
mircea_popescu: "for anyone not-me" ?
asciilifeform: roughly.
mircea_popescu: yeah well. so now you can look upon teh priors as such.
assbot: Logged on 11-08-2015 13:29:38; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform beating old people is a bad idea.
mircea_popescu: who said beating ?
mircea_popescu: yes, young people you can straighten out whether they want to or not.
mircea_popescu: old people, not so much, which is why it's upon you.
asciilifeform: 'beating' here as proxy of 'nobody needs a you for anything, find a way to stop being you'
mircea_popescu: this is not what it means.
asciilifeform: then what does it mean? work through the example with the old woman, for my education
mircea_popescu: old woman that never had children ?
asciilifeform: what happens? fella is lucky enough to encounter an old woman that will take him in as a servant? or what
mircea_popescu: im not sure what you're asking.
asciilifeform: 'go up to every woman over 50 you run into, kneel before her, kiss her shoes, beg her to give you something to do'
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 16:30:17; asciilifeform: sure. when i need a bulldozer, i rent it.
asciilifeform: what does this look like in practice ?
mircea_popescu: from whose persepective ?
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1301867 << "can you believe the run of bad luck i've been having ?"
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 16:32:23; mircea_popescu: so yes, you're right : the idiot-poor imagine that the source of their misfortune is the malfeasance of a ~particular~ event, rather than the large clump of shit they carry around on their shoulders.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from the perspective of the schmuck
mircea_popescu: i think the expression is "mortified"
asciilifeform: so last bullet ?
mircea_popescu: no. it LOOKS LIKE.
mircea_popescu: a healhy erect cock also looks like death to a good half of fifteen year old brides.
mircea_popescu: most survive.
pete_dushenski: death as in 'swallow your pride'
mircea_popescu: nah, that's easy.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that well, cutting the knife with the very knife in question.
mircea_popescu: we laugh when the only result of sponsored "scientific studies" is that they need more studies (ie, more sponsorship)
asciilifeform: what comes after the 'swallowed pride' ?
pete_dushenski: 'leave your problems at the door'
mircea_popescu: we kinda don't laugh when the only result of the stupid brain is more stupid.
pete_dushenski: then what walks through ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform pandora's box
asciilifeform: let's take this to the actual story. mircea_popescu, in the face of the old woman says, 'stop being a programmer, here is an address of a pub, you can become an apprentice cock-sucker there' ?
mircea_popescu: you think ?!
mircea_popescu: i've yet to see this one.
asciilifeform: then what, if not this? what happens after the humiliation ?
asciilifeform: in concrete terms.
mircea_popescu: what happens after death alfie ?
mircea_popescu: IN CONCRETE TERMS PLOX!
asciilifeform: worms eat ya
mircea_popescu: that's not happening to you.
asciilifeform: then you ain't properly dead
pete_dushenski: worms can survive the saline environment of the mines
asciilifeform: and are still having same problem
mircea_popescu: mno, i mean, you're not there~
mircea_popescu: "i fear not my own death for when it is, i am no longer, and while i am, it isn't."
asciilifeform: then, supposing that the Magical Wand of Curative Humiliation exists, there is a zombie walking around with your passport in his pocket, while you are dead.
pete_dushenski: amor fati
mircea_popescu: wait, you actually dusted off the phylosophycal zombye ?! woot.
mircea_popescu: this is not a tool of thought, you know. it's a tool of grantsmanship.
asciilifeform: hence my great surprise at mircea_popescu appearing to ask for him !
mircea_popescu: but i aren't!
asciilifeform: ok, then who is walking around after this 'death' ?
asciilifeform: and what does he do to earn a living ?
mircea_popescu: well, you don't know.
mircea_popescu: that's kinda the point.
asciilifeform: so this is all obscurantist claptrap ?
mircea_popescu: if you will.
pete_dushenski: damn this pop-in-pop-out stuff... time to take the worm for a walk. bbl.
mircea_popescu: is anything that doesn't admit a technological approach (such as say, random number generation) obscurantist claptrap ?
asciilifeform: anything that can't be modelled meaningfully
asciilifeform: (rng sure as fuck - can)
mircea_popescu: in every arbitrary context ?
asciilifeform: in some context, on demand
mircea_popescu: even in a context that is by definition constructed to not allow the modelling ?
asciilifeform has to go and change the canister in his sophistry gas mask now. bbl
mircea_popescu: "worms eat you psssh". i could have said "life goes on" for all the good that does anyone. and then I'M THE SOPHIST!!1
mircea_popescu: bwhaha and the next thing i run into is, of course, http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/01/can_narcissism_be_cured.html
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Can Narcissism Be Cured? ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rivj1D )
mircea_popescu: "VIII. The Solution No One Will Like
mircea_popescu: "I feel like I am playing a part, that I'm in a role. It doesn't feel real."
mircea_popescu: Instead of trying to stop playing a role-- again, a move whose aim is your happiness-- try playing a different role whose aim is someone else's happiness. Why not play the part of the happy husband of three kids?"
mircea_popescu: the solution is retarded in that it doesn't solute anything, but the MECHANISM is in fact exposed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6252 @ 0.00050528 = 3.159 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell trinque yo deedbot- got calved off the b-assberg
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: pile of chairs indeed
trinque: ty ben_vulpes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6648 @ 0.00050528 = 3.3591 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00050289 = 2.1624 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski I must have missed it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.pete_dushenski.3:181eea84adc32cac0586d411004fe8d2ce395be54679d593bb55037d785074e6
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for pete_dushenski with note: Just great
assbot: dpaste: 13YT417 ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYHItV )
deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.
trinque: BingoBoingo: needs the text one.
BingoBoingo: Ah, ty
deedbot-: accepted: 1
deedbot-: accepted: 1
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1302000 if the "after" you thinks and acts completely differently, then how is it different from death?
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 17:02:02; asciilifeform: ok, then who is walking around after this 'death' ?
jurov: you want to learn from him. but he does inscrutable things you may even abhor.
mircea_popescu: this is an interesting quote,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00050437 = 8.6247 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: I will forgo any back story as to why I was in the situation I was in. Just know that it involved an absent dad and one very bad, pathological liar of a mom.
mircea_popescu: When I was 15-17 I was in DCFS custody for (honestly) "insubordinance". Don't ever underestimate the power of a sociopathic mom and a corrupt juvenile system. Eventually I found myself placed in a foster home under the pretext that I'd be on my way back home as soon as I "straightened up" and flew right. Among the many dozens of pathetic failings of the system I was now privy to, this post reminded me of one in particu
mircea_popescu: lar. While the foster family was at church one day, curiosity got the better of me and I snuck a peek at the file of reports they were required to submit to the company the state was outsourcing foster care to. Imagine my surprise (I was naive) when I discovered they were submitting false incident reports.
mircea_popescu: They were completely fabricating incidents in order to make it look like I not only belonged there, but needed to be there quite a bit longer. Of course, every report ended with them swooping in to save the day and resolve things in-house. For those that don't see why they'd do such a thing, most (yes, sadly it's most) foster parents do it for the MONEY. I ended up staying in 3 different homes. #1) I slept in a storage
mircea_popescu: closet with a sheet for a door. #2) I slept in a 10x10 bedroom with 2 sets of bunk beds always running at full capacity. #3) I slept in the utility closet that contained the hot water heater. It was barely big enough to fit the tiny bed, but at least this time I had a door.
mircea_popescu: When it came down to it, they saw their choices as either telling the truth and risk me being sent home or filing fake incident reports to keep me placed there. I was an easy check every month. The only work they had to do was write false incident reports and fill out some paperwork in order to get paid. If I were to be sent home I'd be replaced by a kid that would most likely have real and serious behavior issues. If
mircea_popescu: you're only in it for the money, why do more work for the same pay? F#@$ that. It would take things like morals and integrity to do the right thing in the juvenile system in this country; two of the many virtues this system has little to none of. Corrupt judges receiving kickbacks and facility owners buying jets and boats with money obtained by falsely imprisoning minors is all business as usual in the juvenile justice
mircea_popescu: system. Things like this are only news to those who have never been a part of it.
mircea_popescu: (How I got out of it is just as far-fetched to most people as the lies that put me in it in the first place.)
mircea_popescu: always remember : for every aspirational derpy chick with delusions of self importance
mircea_popescu: there exist in the us-of-a at least a dozen juvenile females who go "at least i had a door".
shinohai: Sounds good until I get accused of plagiarism and hounded on twitter to return the $30-40 in BTC you "paid" me to write.
mircea_popescu: ahahah ouch
shinohai: He strikes me as the type of guy that would want me to pay him royalties just to quote him.
mircea_popescu: he;s the type of guy like that marginal tv derp what's his face, with the icelandic coin scam
mircea_popescu: he'll read what the teleprompter says while pretending he's somebody. meanwhile he's nobody and it's too late for him to get an actual job anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00050289 = 8.8006 BTC [-]
shinohai: Now I crave asian food. :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00050289 = 10.1584 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: apparently, suicide among physicians in the us is larger than for the general population. however - male suicide is LOWER, whereas female suicide is not only higher, it's actually highere than the male
mircea_popescu: (a trend never seen, anywhere, anytime.)
assbot: Hey, stupid women ? We need to talk. Smart women don't want to be with you anymore. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MNqnmz )
shinohai: Living in America period is enough to make you wanna kill yourself sometimes, sex be damned.
thestringpuller: shinohai: You can always just play GTA and laugh at how ridiculous America is.
thestringpuller: or watch South Park, same effect.
shinohai: Or I can turn off the TV and read an actual book ....
mircea_popescu: tv has tits on display in this passive-agressive manner tho
mircea_popescu: almost like a lobotomized henry miller wrote it all.
shinohai: My gf's tits display pretty nicely ... in HD AND zoom works!
mircea_popescu: "look honey, you're the size of a cow. and i don't mean the cow's udder. i mean the whole enchicowada."
mircea_popescu: "I go priced out of my childhood neighborhood, then out of my childhood city, then out of the region, then the state.
mircea_popescu: I have spent the last ten years of my life putting a normal-sized American family in crackerboxes and apartments, living with roommates, not going on vacation, cooking and buying secondhand and making do and doing all the rest of the normal things that normal people used to understand you had to do if you couldn't afford to do different."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25058 @ 0.00050337 = 12.6134 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17349 @ 0.00050461 = 8.7545 BTC [+] {3}
funkenstein_: evenin' y'all, some lulzy spam for you: http://dpaste.com/3ANHGWB#wrap
assbot: dpaste: 3ANHGWB ... ( http://bit.ly/1OCKwNx )
funkenstein_: http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/10/15/23017170/theres-so-much-porn-no-one-watches-it-anymore
assbot: There's So Much Porn No One Watches It Anymore - Slog - The Stranger ... ( http://bit.ly/1VZFd9Z )
thestringpuller: it's a pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: howdy thestringpuller
pete_dushenski: how goes it this fine sunday evening ?
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell BingoBoingo cheers !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 21:36:59; mircea_popescu: there exist in the us-of-a at least a dozen juvenile females who go "at least i had a door".
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1302078 <-- i bet thestringpuller knows why i choose to live in babylon
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 22:29:24; shinohai: Living in America period is enough to make you wanna kill yourself sometimes, sex be damned.
funkenstein_: hint - not meatwot
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: babylon eh. like with saifedean in lebanon or what ?
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 22:27:22; mircea_popescu: apparently, suicide among physicians in the us is larger than for the general population. however - male suicide is LOWER, whereas female suicide is not only higher, it's actually highere than the male
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 22:36:48; shinohai: My gf's tits display pretty nicely ... in HD AND zoom works!
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2015#1302093 << .js probably doesn't mean much to old lady with winbloze craptop. and what's to stop her from thinking to herself "oh my those nice people in the tall building down on main street sure are moving with the times. and saving paper too! how thoughtful."
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 23:52:41; funkenstein_: evenin' y'all, some lulzy spam for you: http://dpaste.com/3ANHGWB#wrap
funkenstein_: yeah and "court date".. better see what they want eh? especially in babylon ;)
pete_dushenski: https://infographwetrust.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/daily-rituals.png << dunno how credible nor wtf 'maya angelou' and her fucking commute are doing in amongst the respectable folks, but 7 hours of sleep seem so be pretty standard.
pete_dushenski: also of note (if true) : milton was the most physically active at 4hrs per day, flaubert did the most reading at 5hrs per day, and balzac did the most writing at 13.5hrs per day
funkenstein_: wow balzac wins i guess
mircea_popescu: da fuck is that nonsense.
funkenstein_: reminds me of when i first visited buenos aires
funkenstein_: oh hai
mircea_popescu: they expect people to reply to then sell them legal services or something ?
mircea_popescu: da fuck, the most. i read 8 to 10 hours a day.
pete_dushenski: i'm guessing that if these figures have any meaning at all that they're from their 'productive years'
pete_dushenski: or whenever they wrote their magnum opuses
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: looks like 'old south' style interracialism
mircea_popescu: looks like two having fun but what do i know.
pete_dushenski: well that too
funkenstein_: i went to a "music" event there, advertising 14 hrs. of music beginning at 1 am
pete_dushenski: "If you say you are an artist, but you make little money from selling your art, can your work be considered a profession in the eyes of the Internal Revenue Service? In a ruling handed down late last week by the United States Tax Court and seen by many as an important victory for artists, the answer is yes."
pete_dushenski: "The I.R.S., which accused Ms. Crile of underpaying her taxes by more than $81,000 from 2004 to 2009, argued that based on several factors, such as her lack of a written business plan, her work as an artist was “an activity not engaged in for profit” and that she could not claim tax deductions in excess of the income she made from her art."
mircea_popescu: art, of course, has nothing to do with this. the irs does not get to decide is the core.
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3XRMDWP.txt << positiion
mircea_popescu: i'd be kinda surprised if the irs actually earnestly argued against this one.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: The spelling should be the same in the other signed ones
mircea_popescu: "Girlfriends are another. Girlfriends say: I pretend to believe you when you say you know kung fu, because I love you. The boyfriend says, not hearing anything she said: I'll stay with you until either I know kung fu; or you realize I don't really know kung fu, and my shame makes me hate you. What does it matter? None of this is the real thing anyway."
mircea_popescu: but yes, it's reasonably persuasive. the west is broken because "the women". specifically, because the women would like to help and the men can't be helped by them.
ben_vulpes: "men"
pete_dushenski: dinner beckons too soon. bon soir !
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.67225201 BTC on 'No' - BTC to reach $1000 or more in 2015 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1169/btc-to-reach-1000-or-more-in-2015/#b23
mircea_popescu: well yeah
mircea_popescu: terms used nominally ; no relation to actual contents of jar.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41850 @ 0.0005057 = 21.1635 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.00050609 = 10.4508 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33179 @ 0.00050707 = 16.8241 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00050874 = 2.8998 BTC [+] {3}
PeterL: I find it interesting Bitbet still has both Bush and Rubio favored as winning the nomination. They can't both win.
mircea_popescu: rubio is very little money tho
mircea_popescu: you gotta consider this also.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14887 @ 0.00050924 = 7.5811 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: Also quite a ways out from closing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00050936 = 1.7318 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00050367 = 7.5551 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [Qntra] Well Connected Bezzle "Health" Startup Theranos Collapsing - http://qntra.net/2015/10/well-connected-bezzle-health-startup-theranos-collapsing/
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