Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-09-05 | 2015-09-07 → ↓
funkenstein_: thestringpuller, that's the real deal :)
funkenstein_: like bitcoin, you can't fake the funk
asciilifeform saw deal for purchase of certain lab instrument fall through for the third time in that many years.
funkenstein_: thestringpuller, a show of new school crew George tours with these days : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tk9j00wyVQ
assbot: George Clinton Parliment Funkadelic NAMM 2015 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1EJ4Ysm )
asciilifeform is, contrary to pete_dushenski's lsd trip picture, very poor.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, still can't afford that chip fab?
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: not chip fab, either
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you want dr. moreau's island for electronics...
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: my 'island' is an unheated, uncooled, wooden hut.
thestringpuller: when you say "my 'island'" are you talking of hypothetical super scientist island with no budget? or current laboratory?
asciilifeform: current.
asciilifeform: godforsaken hole.
funkenstein_: how's the air quality down there?
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: worst imaginable.
funkenstein_: O.o
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ since they did the killing.
funkenstein_: aha
mircea_popescu can imagine some pretty bad air quality.
asciilifeform: picture 'worst possible without being near-term lethal' and you have it.
mircea_popescu: in other news, went on a lark to this "power dc" ac/dc tribute band in some "rock bar" here.
thestringpuller: funkenstein_: The mothership has arrived.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l, i distinctly recall seeing an ad for precisely this during one of our walks in the city
mircea_popescu: you should have seen this thing. a space too small to keep a woman with her sister ; 5 dollar drinks ; buncha teenaged derps dressed like pizza delivery boys, backpacks i compris. which ius why nobody had a drink.
mircea_popescu: the band was ohio high bad.
mircea_popescu: and it had nothing to do with rock whatsoever.
funkenstein_: lol, ouch
mircea_popescu: basically, argentinian : tribute band that is not a band and no tribute, in a bar that sells no drinks to some kids that are there because they got out of the rain.
funkenstein_ guesses it was also ear-damagingly loud
mircea_popescu: and then funkenstein_ wants to tell me about the intrinsic worth of all bipedal mouthbreathers.
mircea_popescu: i ain't buying it.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ no, probably on account of electricity being too expensive.
funkenstein_: this is not my point any more than yours is to defend usgtronic idiocy
funkenstein_: most all literate europeans, including cortez, wrote of "economic prosperity beyond any we have seen", "paradise", "wisdom". Hardly just mouthbreathing.
mircea_popescu: you talking north america or central america ?
funkenstein_: well Corez wasn't very far North afaik
mircea_popescu: so then why do you conflate the two. the people i was talking about when i said iron age were the various twerps the usians killed.
mircea_popescu: the various people the spanyards killed are some other discussion.
asciilifeform: what iron.
funkenstein_: Iroquois nation sure seemed more advanced from my reading than say, washcorp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im bewing generous.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ a lot of talk about that. point of fact is, subsistence hunters with bow and arrow.
mircea_popescu: nobody is against the study of political, philosophycal, astronautical or any other knowledge defeated tribe had.
mircea_popescu: we are however against hteir continued physical existence.
funkenstein_: why?
mircea_popescu: because their massacre makes the scant remaining life valuable,
funkenstein_: are we against the physical existence of monkeys?
mircea_popescu: allowing the common man some semblance of freedom and import for a short interval.
mircea_popescu: why do you think the immigrants slaughtered the indians instead of persay teaching them to farm ?
funkenstein_: you mean instead of learning from them how to farm
asciilifeform: one reason was that agriculture is subjectively hell.
asciilifeform: and folks faced with something like an actual choice, did not choose it.
funkenstein_: well not to the folks who knew how to do it
asciilifeform: any more than you and i choose to put hand in a bear trap
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: to anyone. the resulting population density is hell.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00071457 = 4.9305 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu adds "teenaged californians that know how to clean toilets" to his shopping list.
mircea_popescu: im sure they'll enjoy it on account of "knowing how to do it"
funkenstein_: yes, knowing a useful skill and performing it is enjoyable, sometimes referred to as satori 24
mircea_popescu: this is a pipe dream.
mircea_popescu: some skills are enjoyable. others are not.
mircea_popescu: i am a very good arithmetician, at that.
funkenstein_: lol good point there
funkenstein_: but never enjoy some nice arithmetic?
mircea_popescu: yes, of the subset of skills that are enjoyable, one enjoys more the ones that are useful and he's any good at
mircea_popescu: but that's besides the point. being a skilled politician is never enjoyable.
funkenstein_: at any rate, agriculture is a great example of "whoops - shoulda asked the locals where the keys to safe are before we needlessly removed their tongues"
mircea_popescu: i don't see it.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: the white man knew 'the keys' - 'have 99.99% of you die and you too can be subsistence hunters'
funkenstein_: modern genetic engineering and rapid desertificatoin techniques have never reached indian levels
mircea_popescu: eh get out.
funkenstein_: go, make a new maize
funkenstein_: explain how it was done
mircea_popescu: the indians died of starvation, mostly.
funkenstein_: ditto the potatoe
funkenstein_: nonsense
mircea_popescu: there weren't enough of them to populate california.
funkenstein_: the invading barbarians died of starvation
funkenstein_: california was quite populated
funkenstein_: as was modern detroit, look now
asciilifeform: for fucks sake,
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2015 01:09:34; asciilifeform: 'Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered. He spends part of his time in a fantasy world in which things happen as they should — in which, for example, the Spanish Armada was a success or the Russian Revolution was crushed in 1918 — and he will transfer fragments of this world to the history books whenever possible. Much of the propagandist writing of our time amounts to
mircea_popescu: i think that fits.
ben_vulpes: disease also wiped out huge numbers!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes. the sort of disease that kills the hungry.
ben_vulpes: what, the hungry existed until the diseases arrived to wipe them out?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: elementarily, there was nothing magic about the 'red man' which kept him from breeding, like everybody else, to just short of over the carrying capacity of his lands
asciilifeform: it simply did not happen to be very high
asciilifeform: so the lsd aficionados get illusion of 'in harmony with enviro'
asciilifeform: or whatnot
ben_vulpes: lol simply means nature comes by and wallops population numbers once in a while
mircea_popescu: in point of fact as the white man put pressure on the indians, they started crossing boundries in desperate search of food. this was very successful at preventing organised resistance - idiots too busy fighting each other.
asciilifeform: in reality, say the place today called california could have supported 50,000 healthy stone age folk, or 100,000 barely-alive ripe-for-smallpox.
mircea_popescu: so much for political superiority.
asciilifeform: it will house 110,000.
funkenstein_: i'm not claiming magic red men, i am claiming mentally ill - and markedly stupid - invaders
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform call it californy like they did :D
funkenstein_: i'm also claiming great denial and lack of reading of relevant historical documents
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ like ?
funkenstein_: e.g. scalping laws of every US state rewarding people for presenting american corpses
funkenstein_: meeting notes from Denver
mircea_popescu: "meeting notes from Denver" ?!
mircea_popescu: you mean the protocols of the learned elves of denver ?
funkenstein_: explicit doctrines of idiocy from there for hundreds of years - must kill kill because - dumb dumb we are
mircea_popescu: must kill because can.
funkenstein_: then starve you will
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: the 'magical wisdom of harmony with mother earth' thing won't fly. but my personal favourite crackpottery re: the indians, and one which has at least a pinch of actual historical support, is that they had to be bugsprayed to keep agricultural white man from defecting.
funkenstein_: in a dead wasteland
mircea_popescu: eh get out.
funkenstein_: kill because can? start with own family, then all plants and animals, finally self.
mircea_popescu: no dude. start with the monkeys. d'oh.
funkenstein_: monkeys are fine with me, leave them there -- can eat them later if shit gets rough
mircea_popescu: you're acting like elementary points don't somehow magically exist. that pretense doesn't do anything.
mircea_popescu: obviously the white guys killed the red guys. the red guys sucked.
funkenstein_: all of us will die, therefore we suck
funkenstein_: how about lets try to learn from past mistakes
asciilifeform: incidentally, i notice that aficionados of crying for the indians for some odd reason cry preferentially for the ones clobbered earlier and more thoroughly, leaving not so much as a wet spot (e.g., arawak) vs the later ones who learned horse and rifle and gave white man a run for his money
funkenstein_: thems what die will be the lucky ones
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obviously. those showed some sign of sense.
funkenstein_: i cry for the descendents of the fucktards who still bear the scars of mental illness
mircea_popescu: you don't get to go around putting labels on things you know.
funkenstein_: i cry for mircea_popescu who lives in a society which grew up with no wise elders
mircea_popescu: i did ?!
funkenstein_: *now lives
mircea_popescu: dude if your idea of wise elders is some twerps who worship the failures...
funkenstein_: ??
mircea_popescu: last fucking thing i want to see are some elders harping on about how great the iron age man was. srsly.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: can you describe one of the 'wise men' and his wisdom in terms that any of us might apprehend ?
mircea_popescu: it's not even ridiculous.
asciilifeform: 'it was wisdomy and truthy damnit' doesn't cut it.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, when I read your excellent blog I am often reminded of the aztec word "tonal"
gabriel_laddel: funkenstein_: life is ruff, here, have a blanket.
funkenstein_: that ideal model existing in our mind of objects describing the world around us
assbot: Hai sa facem un exercitiu on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NVtlGi )
funkenstein_: gabriel_laddel, lol
mircea_popescu: "they had cars at the time this fuckwit was living in the dirt. do you understand ? some african monkey thinking they unveiled the sikrits of the universe AT THE SAME TIME as people doing the cern cyclotron is necessarily and by that very fact an idiot.
mircea_popescu: humanity is a thrown curve. what's ok in 700bc is not ok in 2000ad."
mircea_popescu: if i want to worship some iron age primitives, i got the greeks
mircea_popescu: i do not need nor care to mention some schmucks 5000 years late to the party.
mircea_popescu: not anymore than i care for tornatore's shepherd.
funkenstein_: the largest city in the world in 1500 was Tenochtitlan
mircea_popescu: fuck him, retarded sicilian rediscovering the intellectual products of sheep herding in 1940
mircea_popescu: again with mexico ?
funkenstein_: "They had cars" - we worship retarded usans now?
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: what did your neolithic folks ~demonstrably~ have, that, e.g., i, want but do not have?
mircea_popescu: what's this mezclado of everything. we talk north american indians you derp about early mexico city, i discuss tech you derp about consumers... different things yo.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, remember the bar here is set for - is it worth your while to go slit a throat of somebody not bother you
asciilifeform: (note that this is not a null set, but i don't expect to hear any correct answer just now)
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: the 'not bothered' part is also demonstrably false.
asciilifeform: esp. in north a.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, what did -your- neolithic folks demonstrably have that I want now?
mircea_popescu: eh russia wasn't even inhabited then.
mircea_popescu: tech didn't really allow for it.
funkenstein_: mexico city is in north america afaik
asciilifeform: what's next, moscow is in europe !
asciilifeform: technicalities.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to take that myth away : tenochtitlan had a populatiuon of 2 or 300k. in any case under 500k.
mircea_popescu: fucking ur, at the time of its beheading, was ten times that.
mircea_popescu: china had dozens of settlements larger
mircea_popescu: rome had been a million for nine or ten centuries by that point
mircea_popescu: but yes, it was by far the largest affair in the new world. because the new world sucked.
mircea_popescu: moscow is in europe ?
asciilifeform: and chicken, is a bird !
ben_vulpes: (asciilifeform, what did your neolithic folks demonstrably have that you want but do not have?)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see earlier discussion re: agriculture being a hell
mircea_popescu: they didn't have sleep ad lib you know.
asciilifeform: sure they did.
mircea_popescu: they just had a retarded female-centric social system which fell over at the slightest provocation. like every other case in history.
asciilifeform: eh we got that now.
mircea_popescu: not quite yet.
mircea_popescu: going that way tho
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: is there anything in particular DERIVE has that maxima does not? I read a presentation on the matter, which had some nice specifics (inequality support) but am curious why you fondly remember the former rather than the latter.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: it has being 200KB.
mircea_popescu: maxima existed then ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: maxima existed in 1970s
asciilifeform: called then 'macsyma'
mircea_popescu: and i could run this on what ?
asciilifeform: which 'this'
asciilifeform: macsyma?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the current distributive runs on standard common lisp.
mircea_popescu: and i could have had standard common lisp on what ?
gabriel_laddel: symbolics box...
mircea_popescu: i could have had a symbolics box ?
asciilifeform: in '93? 1) symbolics 2) sun 3) vax 4) a few others
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why didnt you get a symbolics box yo! then you could have fondly remembered maxima instead of derive!
mircea_popescu: my copy came on disk 2 of "crime wave"
asciilifeform: there also was 'xlisp' for msdos, which was ~nearly~ commonlisp.
asciilifeform: i used it.
assbot: Crime Wave DOS Longplay (1/4) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NVugXr )
mircea_popescu: god i loved that stupid scroller
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l, what was it doing there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120865 @ 0.00073053 = 88.2955 BTC [+] {8}
mircea_popescu: the idea was you had to fill all disks.
asciilifeform: ah, human warez
asciilifeform: then makes total sense!
mircea_popescu: check it out btw, almost like topless daughter of president
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: coming back to the earlier point, it is ~unfathomably valuable~ to ~know that you know all the knobs and what they do~
asciilifeform: this means fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: it is even conceivable that the guts would have fit in your head, had they been exposed
asciilifeform: but the interface of 'derive' certainly did.
asciilifeform: try that with a modern symbolic maths package.
gabriel_laddel: Yeah, I failed at that a while back.
asciilifeform: this totality - there is no substitute for it.
gabriel_laddel: Maxima is neato, but the ALGOL interface to all the goodies sucks.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel come to think about it, you probably want derive source for your masamune thing
asciilifeform: it means that when something does not work as expected, you can immediately rule out 'unknown knob'
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: already downloaded it ;-) but will probably stick with Macsyma.
asciilifeform: no sourceball for 'derive' was ever publicly discovered.
gabriel_laddel: erm let me unpack derive.zip and see wtf is in here then
mircea_popescu wonders if funkenstain got butthurt
gabriel_laddel: nvm - I've just got a bunch of DERIVE files, no sources.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the thing itself lives in one exe.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: came with a buncha generated crud, for illustrative purposes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27287 @ 0.00071457 = 19.4985 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: said exe contains (in my copy) a bitwise-unchanged copy of 'mulisp-87' and a savelispanddie image of derive's engine appended after.
funkenstein_: sorry about that, network problems
asciilifeform: (and yes, mircosoft bought the thing, long ago, before there even was winblowz)
funkenstein_: moar winblows because: can
funkenstein_: well i must thank you for reminding me of the extent of damage due to idiocy and mental illness which has occured in the past
funkenstein_: I will renew efforts with greater motivation
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: consider link to the documents mentioned earlier ?
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-09-2015#1263439
assbot: Logged on 05-09-2015 23:03:16; funkenstein_: For more on that Guatemala story grep for "1986": http://www.skeptic.ca/American_Holocaust.htm
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 04:24:17; funkenstein_: most all literate europeans, including cortez, wrote of "economic prosperity beyond any we have seen", "paradise", "wisdom". Hardly just mouthbreathing.
asciilifeform: funkenstein_ will also likely enjoy the mega-classic http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html
assbot: The Worst Mistake in the History ofthe Human Race ... ( http://bit.ly/1NVw0zM )
funkenstein_: aha, of guns germs and steel fame
funkenstein_: Stannard's scholarship is remarkable. 60 pages of references, in documents he turned up in one of his volume.
funkenstein_: It may be possible for a person to know something about history of the America's without reading him, but surely the responsibility is on the person to so demonstrate.the
funkenstein_: Cortes: "Besides those things which I have already mentioned, they sell in the market everything else to be found in this land, but they are so many and so varied that because of their great number and because I cannot remember many of them nor do I know what they are called I shall not mention them"
gabriel_laddel: !up refferedbyloper
gabriel_laddel: spelling?
funkenstein_: "never seen in all my days what so rejoiced my heart, as these things. For I saw among them amazing artistic objects, and I marveled over the subtle ingenuity of the men in these distant lands. Indeed, I cannot say enough about the things that were brought before me"
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9970 @ 0.00073157 = 7.2938 BTC [+] {3}
funkenstein_: good night gents, my apologies for the not so lighthearted topics
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9928 @ 0.00073663 = 7.3133 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00073687 = 16.2111 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00073705 = 3.3904 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52100 @ 0.00073314 = 38.1966 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00072908 = 13.1234 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;gentime 1000
gribble: The average time to generate a block at 1000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 56957648455.0, is 7757 years, 16 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes, and 24 seconds
mircea_popescu: ;;gentime 1000000000
gribble: The average time to generate a block at 1000000000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 56957648455.0, is 2 days, 19 hours, 57 minutes, and 14 seconds
mircea_popescu: ;;gentime 11325.648148148
gribble: The average time to generate a block at 11325.6481481 Mhps, given difficulty of 56957648455.0, is 684 years, 48 weeks, 4 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes, and 44 seconds
mircea_popescu: ;;gentime 56628240.74
gribble: The average time to generate a block at 56628240.74 Mhps, given difficulty of 56957648455.0, is 7 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, and 17 seconds
mircea_popescu: ;;gentime 113256481.48
gribble: The average time to generate a block at 113256481.48 Mhps, given difficulty of 56957648455.0, is 3 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, and 8 seconds
punkman: guess that was wordplay, because the app is for muslims https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ipray-prayer-times-qibla-compass/id288054534
assbot: iPray: Prayer Times & Qibla Compass on the App Store on iTunes ... ( http://bit.ly/1VGkI3G )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20554 @ 0.00072767 = 14.9565 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5265 @ 0.00071456 = 3.7622 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16724 @ 0.00071456 = 11.9503 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.0007352 = 15.5127 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2526 @ 0.00071456 = 1.805 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [Trilema] Sneak Peak Screenshots and The Future Golden Goose - http://trilema.com/2015/sneak-peak-screenshots-and-the-future-golden-goose/
mircea_popescu: the gentlemen investors as well as the armchair financiers may find the 2nd part of ^ interesting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.00071416 = 16.14 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: do you have to milk the goose daily?
assbot: Police officers go through transgender training - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1i5gswA )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3650 @ 0.00071807 = 2.621 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: !up VariaVarietatis
assbot: Harajuku Japan (@tokyofashion) • Instagram photos and videos ... ( http://bit.ly/1VGsZER )
punkman: every time I end up on instagram, I can't believe all the pictures are 640pixels and people use it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00073704 = 5.1224 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00073705 = 5.9333 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00073705 = 10.9083 BTC [+]
punkman: http://eugeniekitchen.com/brick-toast/ sunday breakfast suggestion
assbot: Brick Toast Recipe - Shibuya Honey Toast - Japanese Shokudo - Eugenie Kitchen ... ( http://bit.ly/1i5jQHY )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00073638 = 4.271 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00073139 = 10.1663 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00073743 = 5.0514 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12193 @ 0.00073192 = 8.9243 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3050 @ 0.00073618 = 2.2453 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8470 @ 0.00072533 = 6.1435 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00071969 = 6.5492 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00071969 = 5.9374 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00071343 = 6.3495 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00071307 = 12.2648 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: Thanks AVG, deleting bitcoin nau: https://i.imgur.com/snA9iAP.png
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1930 @ 0.00071978 = 1.3892 BTC [+]
shinohai: !up vextor
vextor: hello, a week ago I reported that Phuctor is broken when new keys are submitted
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3244 @ 0.00072836 = 2.3628 BTC [+]
vextor: mircea_popescu noted that the bignum arithmetic often hobbled the machine, and to wait a few hours
vextor: I did so, and also noted the Phuctor statistics. the number of keys to process was gradually going down
vextor: over the course of the week, the number of Moduli Waiting for Test has now decreased to 601
vextor: but it has been stuck on this figure for several days
shinohai: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 240.69, Best ask: 240.79, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 240.72, 24 hour volume: 25432.59040205, 24 hour low: 231.0, 24 hour high: 248.48, 24 hour vwap: None
vextor: I assume that when the number of moduli to test reaches 0, then key submission will work again?
vextor: if there's anything I can do to help new submissions work again, please let me know
vextor: submissions are, naturally, still broken
vextor: I'll be watching the logs in case my services are needed
shinohai: I think phuctor is down, but will have to ask asciilifeform when he gets here
vextor: thanks to shinohai for the voice
shinohai: m'kay
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13476 @ 0.00072836 = 9.8154 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell vextor phuctor has had mains plugs pulled on it several times recenty, and alf's attitude (i believe) is that the thing shoudn't run if its going to have its memory ripped out every time it warms up. remember, it keeps the running product in memory. mircea_popescu's attitude is that "software should be less friable than the hardware upon which it runs". asciilifeform is trying to find the shitgnome responsble for
ben_vulpes: mains-currenting his box, and so i think phuctor is in limbo for the moment.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: !s friable
assbot: 1 results for 'friable' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=friable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74900 @ 0.00071388 = 53.4696 BTC [+] {5}
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell bingoboingo you'd appreciate the local gravity distortion in the 24-hour cafe this morning
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.0007321 = 12.7385 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00071378 = 9.2791 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: what's that mean?
gribble: What do you think I am, a shell?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00073198 = 6.9538 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform `for i in $(shasum -a 512 patches/* | awk '{print $1}'); do python v.py patches o $1; done` returns "No origin found." for all patches. i've not successfully run 'origin' yet.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ^^ from a vanilla vdemo tar, unless i'm horribly mistaken.
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: dat beetus
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4979 @ 0.00073383 = 3.6537 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11217 @ 0.00073018 = 8.1904 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13751 @ 0.00073569 = 10.1165 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00073604 = 12.9543 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6388 @ 0.00073604 = 4.7018 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10389 @ 0.00073774 = 7.6644 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes what were you trying to do ?! 'o' takes a ~tree file's hash~ as argument, and tells you ~which patch~ produced it. looks like you were giving it a patch's hash ??
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: aha, yes I was
ben_vulpes: so that'd be the hash of a "pressing"?
asciilifeform: of a particular file in a pressing (or found elsewhere, aha)
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 04:21:27; asciilifeform: it is mainly because my disk is littered with 1,001 copies of therealbitcoin tree
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263914 << i've been thinking about this ever since the last thread, and so far i have not come up with any way to make the thing RELIABLY survive the treatment it is getting
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 12:25:05; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell vextor phuctor has had mains plugs pulled on it several times recenty, and alf's attitude (i believe) is that the thing shoudn't run if its going to have its memory ripped out every time it warms up. remember, it keeps the running product in memory. mircea_popescu's attitude is that "software should be less friable than the hardware upon which it runs". asciilifeform is trying to find the sh
asciilifeform: (undetectable bit rot is MUCH WORSE than the idling it does right now)
asciilifeform: thing is, flipping ONE FUCKING BIT in an already-baked product of moduli renders the whole shebang - and however long it took to produce - UNDETECTABLY worthless.
asciilifeform: the thing really needs to run on a colo box.
asciilifeform: with internal battery.
asciilifeform: i will also take this chance to point out that the node on dulap has been rendered useless by all of this - trails by 30-100 blocks AT ALL TIMES
asciilifeform: this means that at present time there is EXACTLY ONE reliable public therealbitcoin node - zoolag.
asciilifeform: i am still waiting to hear from anybody having set up another.
kakobrekla: id like to tho
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what's keeping ya ?
kakobrekla: id like to throw* one on that mini arm computer cloud at some point
kakobrekla: they just sliced prices down, assuming not popular
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: use the cross-compilator instructions from my pogotron recipe
kakobrekla: currently out of time.
asciilifeform: everybody's out of time, aha
asciilifeform: i will note, for anyone relying on zoolag to transmit time-sensitive things, that it is on a fucking home fiber
asciilifeform: and could go down literally any time.
kakobrekla: i got a second mircorserver that will be another home node (amd, ecc, raid) that is on my bench waiting to be assembled for a couple of weeks now.
kakobrekla: but, no time.
kakobrekla: will get better soon.
thestringpuller: reading a paper on cryptosocialism...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4671 @ 0.00073014 = 3.4105 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2268 @ 0.00072538 = 1.6452 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: *sigh*
ben_vulpes: what are best practices with the mailing list again?
assbot: Logged on 04-09-2015 23:54:25; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here's how i do it: 1) clearsigned (asciiarmoured) body. 2) attachment 3) signature (asciiarmoured, detached) of attachment, having the filename attach.foo.sig for every attach.foo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4467 @ 0.00073045 = 3.2629 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTC-dev] V. (ver. 99K) ... ( http://bit.ly/1VHbxQN )
trinque: ;;later tell funkenstein_ If only Cortes hadn't destroyed the Mesoamerican time machine, you could travel back and set everything right.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: neato ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: i will read this.
trinque: This preoccupation with what should've happened misses the process by which things *actually happen* by a wide berth.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it is only of middling nifty-ness.
ben_vulpes: i of course neglected the test incantations.
ben_vulpes: `python -m unittest test_v'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why on earth did you put in that horror with the nested if-thens ?
asciilifeform: 'cause now if i wanna add a new command, there are THREE FUCKING PLACES to put it in instead of 2
asciilifeform: what gives.
asciilifeform: what was the point of this mutilation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16317 @ 0.00073045 = 11.9188 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: eradication of global state and testability.
asciilifeform: dafuq is your problem with global state
ben_vulpes: you mean untestable spaghetti?
asciilifeform: it is only 'spaghetti' if there are localisms in the global state. as it was, all of it was relevant to the whole proggy.
ben_vulpes: in all honesty, it is a relic of testing from before i had the args objects mocked out.
ben_vulpes: and that is strictly untrue.
ben_vulpes: c_wot, for instance, has no business knowing about all sorts of things in args.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is right about c_wot
ben_vulpes: i /abhor/ functions that take the whole environment as their input arguments.
asciilifeform: but the patch dir arg is necessary !
asciilifeform: let's say it weren't. then ' ./v.py w ' prints wot ? but this is broken. because what if 'w' is my patch dir, and i simply forgot to include the second arg.
asciilifeform: ergo all invocations of my 'v' took the patchdir arg as first arg.
ben_vulpes: i've not touched the arg parsing itself.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what were your objections to 'banners' and 'desc' ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00072663 = 13.0067 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: i don't think i understand their use well enough to complain in detail.
asciilifeform: banners is simply a table of what was signed by whom.
ben_vulpes: i know what it is, silly. just not the places where it's used. yet.
asciilifeform: desc is a table of where a file (represented by its sha512) was born.
ben_vulpes: but looky here. you've written a thing that more-or-less must be tested as a whole, and i'm trying to push for testing the bits.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: btw i find it interesting that nobody has yet noticed that 1) broken chains 2) orphaned subchains of any length whatsoever --- do not work
ben_vulpes: and this is why the global state drives me up a wall. because i cannot import one of these functions from the script and then run it without setting up a global environment for it. it's difficult to reason about the code lacks locality.
asciilifeform: and their presence prevents anything else from working.
ben_vulpes: yes, i have only written 'happy path' tests.
ben_vulpes: and no, i have not yet ginned up the tree-fuzzer.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: try producing a patch that forks off, e.g., rel1, and see what i mean.
asciilifeform: right now it has no notion of patches that cannot coexist with one another.
ben_vulpes: (because the code lacks locality)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: add it back into the todos :P
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was hoping it would be obvious to anyone who actually tried to use the thing.
punkman: asciilifeform: I just noticed this earlier when I looked at press, will apply every single patch up to HEAD
ben_vulpes: that'd be trying to break the thing.
asciilifeform: punkman: correct. the thing has no concept of orphaned chains as of yet.
asciilifeform: punkman: i decided, rather than let the thing sit sadly for another month while i get this necessary thing to work, to release instead
asciilifeform: perhaps ben_vulpes et al will finish the job.
punkman: asciilifeform: I only thought about it for 5 min but it seems like the solution to this would be a bit complex
asciilifeform: punkman: it would, yes
asciilifeform: punkman: need a smarter toposort
asciilifeform: (iirc the correct term for the thing remaining to be done is 'topological traversal')
punkman: I think I might hook it up to graphviz for visualization
asciilifeform: punkman: i did a rough version of just that, a few days ago
asciilifeform: punkman: i decided not to post it, because the result sucks
asciilifeform: it needs to be *clickable*
asciilifeform: and graphviz doesn't give this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12378 @ 0.00072529 = 8.9776 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: time to manually generate some svgs, eh?
asciilifeform: svg sucks.
asciilifeform: and graphviz sucks.
asciilifeform: i was not able to find how to enforce level stepping in it.
asciilifeform: (that is, all 'generations' of patch family tree should occupy a level, strictly)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.00073773 = 10.6602 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: unrelatedly,
asciilifeform: is the otc order book thing entirely stone dead ?
asciilifeform: has anyone here ever actually managed to buy, something other than coin or fiat, there /
ben_vulpes: mnope.
asciilifeform: this is kinda a continuation of the ancient 'ebay' thread.
ben_vulpes: but the dream of distributed marketplaces is alive in #otc.
asciilifeform: dream ahahaha lol
ben_vulpes: ahaha look at all of these python tabs i can close now
assbot: Logged on 03-09-2015 02:08:18; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the other interesting thing is that the market is segmented in such a way that anyone who doesn't want mcfood ends up paying for ~all~ the alt-crackpotteries, not merely the logical ones << this is a very valid point, and the one spot where alf's ideas re meta-lizzards sound most persuasive. i do not believe the market is gerrymandered as it is by accident.
asciilifeform: say i wanna buy an xxxxxtron but don't have $10k.
asciilifeform: it is often possible if i can avoid paying the 'newness tax'
asciilifeform: because i sure as fuck don't ~need~ 'support'
asciilifeform: and i can do without 'warranty' and 'returns'
asciilifeform: and i don't give a flying fuck if the thing has parts made of baby bones and panda fur
asciilifeform: by slave labour in namibia
ben_vulpes: hear hear
ben_vulpes: in other news, i'm off to a baby shower
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: don't throw it out with the bathwater
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00073774 = 3.0985 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ;;buy 1 "TAIG 2027ER with original vise, and with controller of any make." at 6 BTC
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be identified via GPG to use the order book.
asciilifeform: ;;gpg eauth asciilifeform
gribble: Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@unaffiliated/asciilifeform. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7
asciilifeform: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:58850f1a13a4e710af8dc3a896a0d761067daf11abe9fddc336a23aa
gribble: You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7
asciilifeform: ;;buy 1 "TAIG 2027ER with original vise, and with controller of any make." at 6 BTC
gribble: Order id 22472 created.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00073326 = 5.1328 BTC [-]
assbot: George Harrison - I Dig Love - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1g3XdBA )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell pete_dushenski take me to the parallel lsd universe where i'm rich !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes you would probably gain from rewriting 'v' from scratch, rather than using mine
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: "The Contradiction of Relativism" - an essay by Frithjof Schuon ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6FDuy )
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: can you give me a good reason to read this ?
ag3nt_zer0: good morning asciilifeform
ag3nt_zer0: and how are you this sunday?
asciilifeform: 'morning ag3nt_zer0
asciilifeform: short on time.
ag3nt_zer0: have you ever read anything on schuon?
ag3nt_zer0: by schuon
ag3nt_zer0: well, imo he is entirely worth reading
ag3nt_zer0: a good reason?
ag3nt_zer0: other than that, no
ag3nt_zer0: also the truth is refreshing, no?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00072861 = 1.9672 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: snr too low for me.
ag3nt_zer0: and I suppose, for me, that there are minds I quite respect in this room, yours among them, and would hope to hear any thoughts...
ag3nt_zer0: snr = so no reason? :)
asciilifeform: signal/noise ratio
ag3nt_zer0: lots of folks seem to have that issue
asciilifeform is experimenting with avoiding activities with low snr.
jurov: truth has low snr
ag3nt_zer0: if its in a bob marley song maybe
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: politely telling me to take my patches and go home?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not really. just that you are wasting brain cycles on puzzling out the peculiarities of my proggy
asciilifeform: could almost certainly come up with a cleaner one if you just took the algo and wrote own
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform: I am pretty sure I ended up at http://cluborlov.blogspot.com due to you referencing the unspell project... do you have any more leads on smart blogs for geopolitics/economics etc?
assbot: ClubOrlov ... ( http://bit.ly/1g3YR6b )
ben_vulpes: and just as certainly leave you complaining that things never get done unless you do them yourself.
assbot: Beck - Cycle + Morning - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6Gv2s )
trinque spends weeks on a song in Renoise to find it wont export WAVs
trinque: ACK, MOTHERLAAAAND
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: you write music? cool!
ag3nt_zer0: published any tracks
trinque: nah, if I ever get this one to export maybe I'll throw on the www
trinque: but I'm solidly in the hobbyist category
trinque: this might be the first one I'm at all pleased with
ag3nt_zer0: on another topic, I wonder is there anything a programming illiterate, or super noob relative to the experience level in here, can do to make himself useful to the ongoing labors of this group?
kakobrekla: lets turn this around, what _can_ you do?
jurov: ag3nt_zer0: there's qntra, for example
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Mommy bloggers unite! - http://www.contravex.com/2015/09/06/mommy-bloggers-unite/
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: should you wanna take care of that literacy, I've got a chick going through that interactive SICP, seems to be working out for her
trinque: she also made it through mod6's gentoo guide
ag3nt_zer0: kakobrekla: well I used to think I was a decent wordsmith until I stumbled onto trilema contravex and loperos haha... but yeah perhaps qntra is something to aspire to contribute to...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00073773 = 11.361 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: heh, ego solvent, this place is, eh?
ag3nt_zer0: sure at times
trinque: but better to know yourself and improve
ag3nt_zer0: anything worth its salt is usually
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: thanks looking at SICP
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16405 @ 0.00073099 = 11.9919 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19450 @ 0.0007378 = 14.3502 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up andychase
andychase: Hey BingoBoingo! Copying&Pasting my email now:
andychase: I read your article called "Chain Fork Reveals BIP Process Broken" and I was wondering what your thoughts might be on my recent [BIP/Draft] Committee-based BIP Acceptance Process proposal.
andychase: Although to be honest I had a hard time understanding fully what you were talking about in regards to the flaws in the BIP process. Was it just that the Core Devs hadn't really talked to the miners or understood what was going on?
andychase: -Andy
assbot: [BIP/Draft] Committee-based BIP Acceptance Process [Dev] · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZNMPO )
andychase: Yeah, that's the one
BingoBoingo: Honestly it is really too late for further BIPs to really be considered at all
andychase: Hm, what do you mean? There's quite a few being considered right now and all the time.
BingoBoingo: Sure, but the least controversial one (BIP 66) still created a huge shitshow when it was triggered.
mats: how do you define stake anyway
andychase: Well BIP66 fixed a consensus fork for miners running 32-Bit and 64-Bit computers, the shitshow happened because miners weren't validating blocks
andychase: @mats: For which segment?
BingoBoingo: andychase: But the fix in BIP 66 was the least controversial thing in the world and it was a very difficult change because Bitcoin is an actual consensus system.
mats: 'stake in the Bitcoin ecosystem' seems written specifically not to mean anything useful
BingoBoingo: If the BIP to enforce stricter signature encoding standards nearly failed, how is any other BIP to succeed now?
andychase: @mats: For miners it means hashpower
andychase: @mats: Users it means userbase
andychase: @mats: Merchants it means economic activity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00072986 = 10.8019 BTC [-] {2}
mats: how about: sign an address with 145,830 coins and maybe you actually have a stake
andychase: That's "vote by how much money you have"
andychase: but for merchants that might work, if they'd be up to reaching into their cold wallets
andychase: @bingoboingo: The BIP66 change was easy to "fix", just upgrade your clients and make sure a majority is upgrading before activating
asciilifeform: upgrade ahahahahahaha lol
asciilifeform: andychase: we piss on the 'core devs' here.
asciilifeform: and their idiot client.
shinohai: That statement caused me to eject beer from my nose ....
shinohai: "upgrade"
mats: how many 'oops' hard forks are we up to now? three?
andychase: I think you guys know what I meant :) You can upgrade your btcd client the same way to recieve the BIP66 changes
BingoBoingo: mats: Do the several BIP 66 forks all count as one, or do we have to go back and count them all
mats: eye of the beholder and all that
BingoBoingo: ANd seriously what the fuck is an "upgrade"
andychase: raise (something) to a higher standard, in particular improve (equipment or machinery) by adding or replacing components.
asciilifeform: andychase: therealbitcoin.org -- ~20kloc and shrinking.
andychase: yeah so in your case an upgrade would be replacing components, raising the satoshi client to a higher standard
asciilifeform: andychase: this pointedly does not include adding any subcomponent where gavin, hearn, & co had any say in making.
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZPY9X )
assbot: [BTC-dev] bip66 resolution criteria (corrected) ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZPZdW )
asciilifeform: take them 'upgrades' and stow'em.
asciilifeform: direct inquiries as to ~where~ to stow'em, to mircea_popescu et al.
asciilifeform: iirc he has some good illustrated diagrams.
shinohai: Speak of teh devil ...
andychase: I feel like we've gone a bit off topic a bit. I'd love to hear your opinions on a system for reviewing and indicating full approval on changes to the Bitcoin protocol
andychase: currently the system is the core devs decide
mats: core devs don't decide anything.
mircea_popescu: and how's myfavourite cult this fine morning ?
andychase: well for bips, they decide, and other clients like btcd take their bips into consideration
andychase: I'd like to take that kind of system and move it up so a community like this one can make their opinion validated as part of the process for improving bitcoin
mircea_popescu: you'd what ?
shinohai: "make their opinion validated"
andychase: Basically make your opinion matter by proving that you aren't sock puppet accounts and are actually unique and valuable memebers of the Bitcoin ecosystem
shinohai: I have been so worried all this time that our opinion would never be validated.
andychase: opinion matter more*
asciilifeform: komyoooonitiiiii111111!
shinohai: I think WoT proves we are each unique and valuable members of the community
asciilifeform maxed dosimeter, off to meatspace for rest of the day
andychase: If that's true then great, I'd like to take that form of validation and put it into a formal process that can be used for approving or rejecting changes to Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: who are you exactly andychase ?
andychase: I'm a freelance software developer from Oregon
andychase: also reddit.com/u/tytyty_ on reddit
andychase: github.com/andychase
shinohai: !gettrust andychase
assbot: andychase is not registered in WoT.
assbot: RFC-2631, fips 186-3 and openssl's implementation of DSAappear broken (and possibly backdoored) | ___ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZR59A )
assbot: Griffin Dunne v Dennis Hopper (Search and Destroy, 1995) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1fJ8J5p )
mircea_popescu: !down andychase
mircea_popescu: and thank you mr scorsese.
ag3nt_zer0: "A patent example of the classic contradiction in question here—a contradiction characterizing for the most part all modern thought—is provided by existentialism, which postulates a definition of the world that is impossible if existentialism itself is possible. There are only two alternatives: either objective knowledge—a knowledge that is therefore absolute in its own order—is possible, which proves that existen
ag3nt_zer0: then its own promulgation is impossible since in the existentialist universe there is no room for an objective and unwavering intellection."
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 08:38:05; punkman: https://instagram.com/tokyofashion/
mircea_popescu: i wanna meet him.
mircea_popescu: hey most intelligent person in japan, that were on tokyofashion thingee, drop a line.
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 which illiterate murican fail to understand stuff written in french through the age old process of not being able to read it ?
ag3nt_zer0: which? sorry I don't follow... good day btw
mircea_popescu: who said the thing you quoted ?
assbot: "The Contradiction of Relativism" - an essay by Frithjof Schuon ... ( http://bit.ly/1O6FDuy )
ag3nt_zer0: likely originally in French...
mircea_popescu: well he totally missed it and doesn't even have the excuse of not speaking the language.
ag3nt_zer0: have you ever read him?
mircea_popescu: but the quote you presented disqualifies him from discussing sartre.
ag3nt_zer0: from my perspective, which may or may not matter, he doesn't seem to be one to be lightly dismissed
ag3nt_zer0: he's right up there with evola and guenon
mircea_popescu: for the following reason : existentialism is the first (and the most logically successful) of the "postmodernisms", taken eventually to their extreme lolzitude by lacan and his unselfaware progeny in the us ("radical feminists" and whatnot).
mircea_popescu: what this means in easily digestible terms among software people is that existentialism is a class.
mircea_popescu: this means you can not use symbols such as "contradiction" without havind properly defined an existentialism.contradiction constructor in the very group.
mircea_popescu: lest you come out with garbage.
mircea_popescu: he doesn't seem aware of this.
ag3nt_zer0: hmmm maybe I would do better to not post a quote out of context
mircea_popescu: up to you :)
mircea_popescu: but the behaviour would seem to indicate ~you~ think he's easily dismissed.
ag3nt_zer0: not at all
mircea_popescu: quoting properly is more complicated than it seems.
ag3nt_zer0: my entire reason for posting links to this material is that I find it hard to dismiss - hoping that some of the minds in here might check out the longforms and tell me what they think...
mircea_popescu: anyway, fwiw, i don't readily see a way to construct this "existentialism is fail because its idea of reality precludes itself" into meaningful criticism.
mircea_popescu: this is a uniquely poor strategy.
mircea_popescu: all it can conceivably achieve is form minor dismissals in the minds here that hadn't prior bothered to consider
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: if frithjof schuon is illiterate then I must be less than a dog
mircea_popescu wasn't there, hasn't seen, everyone on internet ~= dog.
mircea_popescu: i'm a perfectly illiterate chinese scholar, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: kinda why like bombama, i abstain from "oh china is self contradictory" emissions.
mircea_popescu: s/like/unlike/
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263914 << well, less is probably a bridge to far. equally might also be. but i do maintain software can't be MUCH MORE friable than the hardware upon it runs. and i dun think alf disagrees with that much either.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 12:25:05; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell vextor phuctor has had mains plugs pulled on it several times recenty, and alf's attitude (i believe) is that the thing shoudn't run if its going to have its memory ripped out every time it warms up. remember, it keeps the running product in memory. mircea_popescu's attitude is that "software should be less friable than the hardware upon which it runs". asciilifeform is trying to find the sh
mircea_popescu: !up anton_osika
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20087 @ 0.00072517 = 14.5665 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up anton_osika
anton_osika: Hello guys, I am having issues with phunctor as you might have guessed.
anton_osika: I got my hands cut off so I cannot make signatures; laptop stolen and broken backup. Got any tips for me?
punkman: test backups next time ;)
mircea_popescu: how are these two related ?
shinohai: Use your feet to pull the trigger on the shotgun.
anton_osika: The hands or the two files?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29410 @ 0.00073442 = 21.5993 BTC [+] {5}
anton_osika: shinohai: Thank you for the tip.
mircea_popescu: anton_osika your poor backup policies and phuctor.
punkman: wants to test new key perhaps?
anton_osika: I do have ultimate respect for the WoT. Hence I want to have a valid keypair for communicating with goodfellas here.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 15:57:46; asciilifeform: (undetectable bit rot is MUCH WORSE than the idling it does right now)
shinohai: You're welcome anton_osika my advice is free on Sundays :D
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263952 << understand, there's no hardware solution to this problem. you may make the probability less, but the only path to certainty is checking.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 16:01:36; asciilifeform: with internal battery.
punkman punkman wants to hear more about defending against bitrot
anton_osika: shinohai: Excellent. Could you also advice me on how to successfully invite mircea_popescu for dinner at my home in Stockholm?
shinohai: I suppose the same way you would ask any gentleman to dinner.
shinohai: Als, the fail is strong in this one:
assbot: Resty/Email.js at ac145f7551bf1a118169fff37592a09f401e2a74 · jumacro/Resty · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWxcTu )
punkman: shinohai, whole commit is peppered with credentials to various systems
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00073215 = 8.0537 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263954 << 188.68.240.159 is also online, running pressed stator.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 16:07:45; asciilifeform: this means that at present time there is EXACTLY ONE reliable public therealbitcoin node - zoolag.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 16:14:41; kakobrekla: but, no time.
mircea_popescu: im not even talking one exceptionally well trained gf. that won't cut it.
mircea_popescu: need a dozen, in various stages of coalescence.
assbot: Hermeto Pascoal - Slaves Mass (1977) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWxDgG )
anton_osika: mircea_popescu: I liked your piece on formalised identity based trust system (WoT). Are there any attempts at extending it to our physical existances such as property?
punkman: !rate backyard 9 it makes fruit?
assbot: backyard is not registered in WoT.
shinohai: !rate DatAss 1 Because ... dat ass
assbot: DatAss is not registered in WoT.
punkman: well if you own dat ass, it can get in wot
shinohai: I'll have her come register later when I'm done blowing it up.
anton_osika: My situation as of now is that there is nothing to strictly verify a former fingerprint. However I am the unique holder of the name AntonOsika in Sweden, publicly registered with physical address, so you if you are passing by please find me and I would provide generous housing.
punkman: register with new fingerprint, nobody knew the old one anyway
anton_osika: Well I believe mircea_popescu would honor a contract where the couterparty has no competition at identifying himself. It would be pleasant to extend the notion of trust to identity in the physical domain however.
punkman: !up anton_osika
mircea_popescu: anton_osika what part of property do you imagine is physical ?
anton_osika: Land for example.
anton_osika: Not much else.
mircea_popescu: how is your property of land physical.
assbot: Nabucco - Hebrew Slaves Chorus - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWzl1E )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.0007251 = 4.9307 BTC [-] {2}
anton_osika: Well ownership is nothing physical but the underlying. What arguably makes land different is that one can lets ones physical embodiment be placed on the land, and this can be recognised / unchallenged by others
mod6: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 56 minutes and 56 seconds
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263972 << add to that, "never use known file extensions".
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 16:39:54; ben_vulpes: what are best practices with the mailing list again?
mircea_popescu: fucking subtle undebuggable bullshit, "oh we figured out you're using something of ours, here, it's broken now"
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 16:59:13; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is right about c_wot
anton_osika: punkman: Thanks for the concern about fingerprint. The issue is this: http://pastebin.com/NbPrZS9A
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Future Delivery Contract Fo - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1QiQ39M )
mircea_popescu: these fucking idiots. so eulora is based on modifying work by others. those others have done the following thing : the dialogue of a npc is contained in a table. that table has fields. those fields are "reply 1" "reply 2" and so up to 5. why to 5 ?
mircea_popescu: BECAUSE IT IS A RULE OF THE UNIVERSE THAT ALL THINGS HAVE 5 REPLIES!!1
mircea_popescu: this is how you use databases now, by counting the fucking fileds.
thestringpuller: planeshift?
punkman: mircea_popescu: very common with mysql folks
mircea_popescu: field1, field2 and who the fuck was responsible with raping these idiots as 5yo and discarding the bloodied remains in a ditch did a horrible job
mircea_popescu: the same thing is observed not just here, but THROUGHOUT
mircea_popescu: and is not limited to the db. here, have a magic number in code, because THAT IS WHAT CODE IS FOR!11
thestringpuller: Yea Planeshift has a lot of quirks like that.
mircea_popescu: quirks ?
mircea_popescu: these aren't "quirks"
mircea_popescu: these are the unfortunate results downstream of insufficient five year olds being raped to death and discarded in a ditch.
thestringpuller: P. much.
anton_osika: antonosika has to sign a document stating the location of delivery. He however involuntarily lost his hands. So he can't sign documents anymore.
anton_osika: That's why I'm harassing mircea_popescu until I make him smile.
anton_osika: So long. Thanks for the voice until I can become friends with phunctor.
anton_osika: And again, my physical embodiment is openly registered, if you are in the neighbourhood mircea_popescu. And I might not be as dumb as it seems from the backup policies ..
mircea_popescu: im in fucking buenos aires
mircea_popescu: what neighbourhood ?
mircea_popescu is still raging over the db thing. who the fuck does this. who the fuck makes labels for items in a database WITH THEIR OWN BAKED IN INDEXES!
mircea_popescu: the moment you go to write "field"+number you should fucking realise YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
mircea_popescu: compeletely, utterly wrong from hell.
punkman: mircea_popescu: just curious if this clause "and that ETH trades on a reputable exchange in total value of at least 100 BTC prior to the date of delivery" would be fulfilled by Poloniex, Kraken or any other exchange listed at http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/#markets
assbot: Ethereum (ETH) price, charts, and info | Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWB4nG )
mircea_popescu: punkman where's that clause from ?
punkman: anton_osika's ETH contract
mircea_popescu: link or something ?
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Future Delivery Contract Fo - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1QiQ39M )
mircea_popescu: ah, that. he never fulfilled his obligations under it iirc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.0007251 = 4.4956 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: o nm, he actualy did
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction 2d1ed3f47a6ec0194d8855eec37c252506203ef7d6f5643bba17f7c244a45b00 ... ( http://bit.ly/1NWBhHu )
mircea_popescu: so wait, what happened here is i just profited 3 btc off this guy's backup failure ?!
thestringpuller: "Fellow miners, Some of you receive emails and phone calls from developers. I am not big enough to get that treatment." << LOL. And this is why you side with BIP-101
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00541072 * 15000
gribble: 81.1608
punkman: poor anton
mircea_popescu: that's a valuable laptop.
punkman: should have generated ETH address to put in contract
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00073529 = 14.5955 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: punkman at the time you cou;dn't have.
punkman: I think they had published enough code then and they had some stupid application for direct buyers
mircea_popescu: not iirc.
punkman: PSA: print your ascii-armored keys out. don't use a xerox.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00073791 = 16.9719 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the one point nobody seems to have noticed re that : use mp style fonts (14 point bold) you won't have a problem.
mircea_popescu: use shitass cheapo "businessman" 8 pt thin sans, you're asking to be fucked.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 17:05:49; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: btw i find it interesting that nobody has yet noticed that 1) broken chains 2) orphaned subchains of any length whatsoever --- do not work
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264041 << it's open source right ? that means people can come later and fix it so it works as it should, right ?
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 17:17:54; asciilifeform: i was not able to find how to enforce level stepping in it.
mircea_popescu: SOFTWARE PARADIGM!!11
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 17:35:40; asciilifeform: has anyone here ever actually managed to buy, something other than coin or fiat, there /
mircea_popescu: but more of a fleamarket thing than an electronics supply shop thing
BingoBoingo: !up ufoinc__
assbot: amheekin comments on Cookie Monsters!!! ...and other stuff I've baked. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKDEHh )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264067 << it occurs to me that if we're going to do this, we might as well do it on assbot otc.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 18:01:41; asciilifeform: ;;gpg eauth asciilifeform
punkman: mircea_popescu: orphaned is not the right word there, consider that if the last two patches in your V set create two branches, you can't choose a branch. V will try to apply both and doesn't check filehashes during the patching process.
mircea_popescu: moreover, something like this might actually be a perfect solution for my marketplace idea too. i wanna buy all sorts of things like 3d models etc.
mircea_popescu: punkman this dawned on me presently. ouch.
mircea_popescu: btw punkman would you be interested in implementing a otc-marketplace clone ?
ag3nt_zer0: "Jack Whittaker won $315 million and ten years later, his daughter and granddaughter had both died of drug overdoses, his wife divorced him, and once while in a strip club, he was drugged and robbed of $545,000 in cash"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41833 @ 0.00073801 = 30.8732 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 to my eyes this is more a failure of western society than of whittaker himself.
mircea_popescu: i can readily believe that most of the problem was, jack fully expected to be able to BUY THINGS FOR HIS MONEY.
ag3nt_zer0: yeah?
mircea_popescu: whereas this is not "how the world works"
mircea_popescu: he can "win" 315 mn, but he sure as fuck may not turn that into 1mn turkeys.
mircea_popescu: the notion that you'd take as much as 500 bucks to a us strip club...
mircea_popescu: seriously, at that level of service they should be paying you to even go.
punkman: mircea_popescu: sure, but can't sysadmin the box it lives on (and don't want to fight ddos other than making application cache better and whatnot)
mircea_popescu: it's more work to be a us strip club customer than to work there.
mircea_popescu: punkman this approach is fundamentally at odds with the "lord over a domain" concept of software development prevalent here.
mircea_popescu: however! it occurs to me this actually would work splendidly with deeds.
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu: what do you mean by this? "he can "win" 315 mn, but he sure as fuck may not turn that into 1mn turkeys."
mircea_popescu: trinque listen, would you consider creating a special deed template, which if satisfied gets taken to amarketplace listing sort-of like otc ? searchable is the important part.
trinque: yeah, that doesn't sound too hard
assbot: Let's dig a little deeper into this entire deflation "problem" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KUTdAo )
mircea_popescu: trinque one second drawing mockup
trinque: may require freedom-of-speech friendly hosting, depending on what's bought and sold
trinque: currently on McAWS
kakobrekla: speaking of searchable, current deeds are not if im correct?
trinque: correct; haven't done that yet
trinque: so far it's a single page; though this marketplace will likely call for a db
trinque: I will probably still take the flat file approach otherwise; I prefer it
assbot: dpaste: 3SYPFEM ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKFfNd )
trinque: mircea_popescu: very easy to implement.
trinque: yeah sounds great. WoT needs a buy/sell board
mircea_popescu: yeah. and i know i do.
trinque: got a recommendation for non-aws hosting?
trinque: I've wanted to move deedbot- off that for a while anyway
assbot: NearlyFreeSpeech.NET Web Hosting ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKFtnp )
trinque: that'd work once I'm in Houston, as I'm moving my blockchains all onto my own network once there
mircea_popescu looks through servers
trinque: I don't suppose they'd offer enough space for one?
trinque: oh, it looks like they in fact do offer a great deal of space
mircea_popescu: trinque im full and before moving i wanna see if jurov actually comes through with something usable
trinque: mats: experience with them?
trinque: mircea_popescu: k
mircea_popescu: but in principle you get free server.
mircea_popescu: once you get the search engine for this, prolly can be applied to deeds too
mircea_popescu: and after that we have a backup in case logs need it
trinque: yep, can be something like categories for particular deeds maybe, this being a "buy/sell"
mircea_popescu: but re the "depending on what's bought and sold", i personally have no qualms whatsoever with negrating into the ground folks who put shit in the board.
mats: trinque: good support, used em a decade ago to host ecommerce sites
trinque: yeah I'd just prefer the 10lb heroin happen on someone else's ass, til I move to the barge
mats: i still hear good things about them on the interwebs so i think they've maintained quality since
trinque: mats: cool
mats: in fact i think alf does?
BingoBoingo: <trinque> yeah I'd just prefer the 10lb heroin happen on someone else's ass, til I move to the barge << Part of the point of a WoT is keeping out people who's publically list such a thing
trinque: indeed.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: unless you already have dark market connex, you might have to wait for mircea_popescu/trinque's new buy/sell board ;)
trinque: o what trolling have I brought upon meself
mircea_popescu: !rated trinque
assbot: You rated user trinque on 17-Oct-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Nice work on the deedbot.
trinque: anyhow, sounds like a great idea; I will start hacking on it in spare cycles
punkman: mircea_popescu: punkman this approach is fundamentally at odds with the "lord over a domain" concept of software development prevalent here. << myeah, last attempt didn't work out too well, and I'd rather make my yearly sysadmining allotment shrink than grow
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, what planet would you prefer to live on?
mircea_popescu: retiring eh ?
punkman: one can aspire
mircea_popescu: yeah, aspies.
funkenstein_: trinque, lol. no, I said no "shouldas". The exercise is to learn from history. But since you mention it, how about alexander the great conquering the new world instead of retarded puritan rejects?
mircea_popescu: what exactly do you like about alex ?
punkman: says "great" on the tin
mircea_popescu: i suspek so, buyt hey, let the man stand on his words.
trinque: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/28WSR5K.txt )
trinque: d'oh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.0007375 = 9.145 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: funkenstein_: my point was that you are seeing value in people who could not defend themselves. seems to me that's a prerequisite of being valuable in any other way.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00072673 = 12.2091 BTC [-] {4}
funkenstein_: women and children for example
funkenstein_: programmers in the boxing ring
trinque: or what, if aliens landed, you think they'd want some kind of cultural exchange, rather than to scrape whatever they like out of the earth's crust and ocean, then depart?
mircea_popescu: wait, what ?
mircea_popescu: women and children can't defend themselves ?
mircea_popescu: how come in every fucking conflict it's the men that dioe and the women that survive ?
funkenstein_: well not the conflict we were discussing
trinque: looks from the faces of south americans that some did survive...
mircea_popescu: i suppose the reason mexicans today are short stocky dwarves is that the spanish mutated.
trinque: heh!
funkenstein_: trinque, very important point thank you
mircea_popescu: incidentally /me hates that trait more than any other.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell asciilifeform also, 'order id 22472' would indicate that you have more available btc than rothschilds. who's poor now ? (and yes, i understand that no one will ever actually offer you 'taig' via -otc)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264213 << all day. i noticed this guy for 'y-3' hoodie
pete_dushenski: y-3 was my favourite clothing brand, once upon a time when i cared about such things. ideal collision of sportiness, haute fashion, japaneseness, and obscure brand cachet
pete_dushenski: i still have a y-3 hoodie and basketball jersey in my closet
pete_dushenski: the y-3 'football cleats' were possibly the coolest shoes i ever owned. easily my all-time faves.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 18:25:54; ben_vulpes: and just as certainly leave you complaining that things never get done unless you do them yourself.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264122 << kako very much has it. do not ask to ask, just ask. what can you do ?
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 18:41:35; kakobrekla: lets turn this around, what _can_ you do?
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 18:46:34; trinque: she also made it through mod6's gentoo guide
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263694 <- sorry to be that log reader but I'd like to know wtf this means
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 04:42:06; mircea_popescu: must kill because can.
mircea_popescu: !s if you can you must
assbot: 33 results for 'if you can you must' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=if+you+can+you+must
funkenstein_: so shall I program because I can?
assbot: The corn thing on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKGRX2 )
punkman: funkenstein_: inevitably
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ you might misjudge your can on that score.
mircea_popescu: yes, if you actually could, you inescapably would be.
funkenstein_: because I was under the impression you were encouraging us to have direction and intent in our efforts
mircea_popescu: actual rather than putative, tho.
trinque: mircea_popescu: nah, she's got a few screws loose and doesn't see fit to let me handle 'em with a screwdriver
trinque: bad jurisdiction
mircea_popescu: is she getting wotroduced ?
trinque: neh, she can find her own way here if she does
mircea_popescu: what's this your sister or something ?
trinque: nah, ex
mircea_popescu: worse huh :D
trinque leaves a trail of productive women behind him
mircea_popescu: why leave ? why not just you know, have them love each other.
mircea_popescu: then you won't be able to leave the house anymore.
mircea_popescu: like kakobrekla
trinque: culturally retarded is why
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264159 <-- http://coin-vote.com/poll/55e8a33299baadff0a34acb7
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 19:42:24; andychase: That's "vote by how much money you have"
assbot: Coin-Vote ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKH3FZ )
funkenstein_: "built because could"
pete_dushenski: trinque: this same clinton voter girl ?
trinque: nah that's a different one
pete_dushenski: ah, what's this one's cultural retardation then ?
mircea_popescu: what, a woman can'tr vote for clinton if she wants to now ?!
trinque: to summarize, demanding equality while psychologically needing me to set the boundaries
trinque: mircea_popescu: can vote however she likes; that's just a different chick
mircea_popescu: dude if that's your criteria you've excluded a supermajority
mircea_popescu: in the sense of > 100%
mircea_popescu: but anyway, enough of this pestering guy into a discussion of things he didn't particularly care to discuss.
trinque: heh
trinque: I know others that rock my goddamn boat less, and get more done
btcdrak: BIPCBBSRA is now BIP105
btcdrak: funkenstein_
mircea_popescu: i think longer amount of letter numbers is better bips
pete_dushenski: oh more bips ?
pete_dushenski: more 'debates' ?
funkenstein_: aha thanks
funkenstein_: gotta run sorry, i need a dozen like kakobrekla does - have a good weekend y'all
pete_dushenski: 66 v. 100 v. 101 v. 105 v. your mom
funkenstein_: lol
btcdrak: also, the question is sort of bogus. Blocksize does not help bitcoin scale.
pete_dushenski: ya don't say
funkenstein_: good point..
punkman: davout's BIP000 is the only credible choice
btcdrak: the question needs to be something like "What is the best proposal for blocksize" or whatever
mircea_popescu: btcdrak it is always easier to "rainse awareness" and "solve" problems you imagined than doing something useful.
btcdrak: new altcoin idea: zeroblock.
assbot: Adidas Yohji Yamamoto Y 3 Y3 Football Shoes Sneakers 12 UK | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKHM9Y )
mircea_popescu: anyway, /me is pretty well amused as to how the color revolution experts got color revolutioned up the ass, so hard their head's spinning.
mircea_popescu: you hear that nuland ? you ain't got the resources to compete. not good enough.
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1162575.0;all << in that lulzvein. "the people" now creating proposals for voting mechanisms to score the proposals for blabla.
assbot: Voting for block size increase proposals ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKHTT8 )
punkman: bulldozer was totally the best color
mircea_popescu: the entire decapitation of gavin thing, with its attendant disbelief on the enemy side and misallocation of resources/misinvestment of assets in dead pockets was such a major defeat for the usg, "the tikrit offensive"'s nothing compared.
mircea_popescu: (but yes, i'm sure "if they really wanted to", meta-etc and so forth, things could have been very different bla bla)
pete_dushenski: "next time" (tm)
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 21:26:48; mircea_popescu: so wait, what happened here is i just profited 3 btc off this guy's backup failure ?!
pete_dushenski: "many ways to skin a cat"
assbot: NTT Internet BGP Visualization ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqAhhE )
pete_dushenski: !up refferedbyloper_
pete_dushenski: !up refferedbyloper
mats: why
mircea_popescu: i dunno. oddly the stan brood never talks.
mats: vicious audience
mircea_popescu: i guess sohuh
punkman: what, two people showed up to ask about phuctor not working today
mircea_popescu: i just meant the webirc link he has
mircea_popescu: (i took mine out, because they fucktardedly started using javscript google captcha)
punkman: google captcha: the only captcha that works, and only because google knows everyone
mircea_popescu: works my foot.
assbot: dpaste: 1AJ9NGR ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqBrtA )
pete_dushenski: "Here in Seattle, where the first stage of a $15-an-hour minimum wage law took effect in April, Ivar’s seafood restaurants switched to an all-inclusive menu. By raising prices 21 percent and ending tipping, Bob C. Donegan, the president and co-owner, calculated he could increase everyone’s wages." << welcome to japan. i guess the pearl harbour invasion stuck after all.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00072579 = 13.6449 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: what does the all-inclusive menu and no tipping add?
mircea_popescu: nothing. who the fuck eats "all inclusive", waht is this, ivar's school cafeteria ?
pete_dushenski: complete loss of the profit motive for the wait staff
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu done
pete_dushenski: "The No. 1 complaint from customers? The prohibition on tips. So while the menu still states that prices include service, the credit card slips now have a line that reads: “If you INSIST on leaving a tip, write it here.”" << mkay this is the icing on the stupid cake. at least in japan, leaving a tip is tantamount to slapping the server's mother with your flaccid cock.
pete_dushenski: but in the united states of workerdignity, you can't leave a tip. unless you do.
pete_dushenski: and of course, the server will still be tickled pink because that's the ~culture~
pete_dushenski: you're supposed to tip in north america
pete_dushenski: goddam socialists always trying to superimpose utopia and shove a square peg in a round hole
punkman: tipping every single idiot seems quite strange to me
pete_dushenski: you mean every server at every meal ? or kitchen staff ?
pete_dushenski: because i agree that kitchen staff should take their salary and shut up
pete_dushenski: though here, 'tip splitting' is the de facto food insdustry standard
pete_dushenski: the kitchen always gets a cut, so a server might only see 3-4% of a 10% tip, so she won't be too pleased
pete_dushenski: so 15-20% becomes 'acceptable' in their dumb heads
punkman: you do a good job, or maybe your ass looked good, or I just felt like it, you get a tip
pete_dushenski: to the point where i've seen credit card and debit card terminals that ask if you want to tip one of three pre-selected amounts : 15%, 20%, or 25%.
pete_dushenski: i'm pretty sure there are even 20-25-30 ones about, which is lunacy on a stick
punkman: lol
pete_dushenski: nothing irks me quite like holier-than-thou bellboys though, once had one in nyc who flat-out rejected $2. "not enough". because 0>2 in his fucking sandfilled head
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45593 @ 0.00073787 = 33.6417 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: usistan not hungry enough.
assbot: The Countries Where It's Most Difficult to Get a Visa - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqColy )
pete_dushenski: in my experience : brazil
assbot: RFC-2631, fips 186-3 and openssl's implementation of DSAappear broken (and possibly backdoored) | ___ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZR59A )
mircea_popescu: ml also interesting for all the misdirection and denial work Peter Gutmann pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz sinks into the matter.
mircea_popescu: (cryptlib / gnupg 2.x guy)
assbot: What it means to build a culture of positivity ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqD5LH )
assbot: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover Firefox security holes – and exploit them • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqD4HV )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00072481 = 9.6037 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: What kind of poppycock is that? Won't hire me if I have been negative online.
punkman: "According to the FAQ, a total of 185 secret bugs leaked. Of those, Mozilla categorizes 53 as "severe vulnerabilities." The oldest of those went unpatched for 335 or more days"
punkman: when do we start making a browser?
shinohai: 335 days O.o
punkman: well yeah they had important "Features" to work on first
shinohai: I'd like a browser that doesn't break every time it updates every 3 days
jurov: coinbr progress report: there's light in the end of tunnel, analysis of last two mixed up orders left
jurov: that kind of bug one wonders how the whole thing worked at all
mats: is it because multiple customers put orders in at the same time?
jurov: and at the same price
jurov: and trade between themselves :)
mats: i guess it worked because i was the only one with any volume for the longest time
jurov: not just that, mpex added a misfeature of randomly rejecting orders
jurov: sometime during the recent lull
mats: well, if its any consolation, there's a btc for your troubles when coinbr is up, i know you do a lot of pro bono work around here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00072471 = 7.6457 BTC [-]
shinohai: One day when I actually have btc I need someone to show me the ropes on coinbr
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263473 << thx for thumbsup but this is not related to current situation
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 00:33:21; Bingo_VACAY: Juriv seriously consider raising coinbr fees
assbot: Pen Pals ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqDRbA )
jurov: monthly/withdrawal fees already cause enough friction, pple made themselves heard
jurov: and the % .. maaybe someday
BingoBoingo: Ah, well
shinohai: LOLZ jurov
assbot: Start a 'Grease Bucket Challenge' to raise awareness about obesity. : CrazyIdeas ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZPyMn )
mircea_popescu: lol pc frog
mircea_popescu: <shinohai> What kind of poppycock is that? Won't hire me if I have been negative online. << it's not hiring as much as living wage layer two. do you want to be like the niggers, getting free pills and welfare checks ? that's living wage layer zero. move to the ghetto. are you instead happy with the minimum wage, tax rebates, etc bullshit ? that's layer one, move to suburbia.
mircea_popescu: however if you want the best of the best cafeteria food - that's level two! be positive online, move to san francisco!
mircea_popescu: hiring in the traditional sense has no bearing on all this. it's "hiring", as in, usg "hires" you to lap up the welfare faucet drippings.
mircea_popescu: on the plus side, you won't have any actual work to do, that sort where you could encounter and might have to overcome your own stupidity and general human limitations.
mircea_popescu: on the minus side, if you can do it for a year and not want to kill yourself every night, you'll know you're dumb. not even "not smart". outright dumb.
mircea_popescu: <punkman> when do we start making a browser? << noty.
shinohai: Ironically mircea_popescu, the hashbang guys wanted me to come to San Fran and work lol
shinohai: I'd last about a week before I burnt the place down.
mircea_popescu: but to be fair : i also won't hire them if they've been stupid online.
shinohai: Or mybe I could sustain another workplace injury nd double my income.
mircea_popescu: so it's just where the wall is drawn.
mircea_popescu: either don't be stupid, if you can, or if you can't, then don't be negative. sorcerers in the celestial city. zombies in the zombie horde.
mircea_popescu: all things have a place and a place for all things.
shinohai: True. ^
shinohai: No one wants to be around someone that always projects negativity. But isn't there something to be said for honesty?
shinohai: If someone tells me my product sucks, and it genuinely sucks, perhaps I can use that feedback to not suck.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00073841 = 17.4265 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkiSEy )
mircea_popescu: that's not even the main point. the main point is that they abhor hierarchy, and want the world to be flat.
mircea_popescu: negative reinforcement is what your superiors do, and they can't have any.
mircea_popescu: so you know, if his product sucks tell him in such a way that it doesn't come out you're better than him, and he won't think you were "being negative"
mircea_popescu: all this derpage to assuage the fears and terrors of the 14yo mind already... it's kinda sad.
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 00:13:24; jurov: and the % .. maaybe someday
pete_dushenski: dunno where BingoBoingo gets the idea that he's jurov's business development advisor now
pete_dushenski is a contented coinbr customer, downtown factored in
shinohai: I may be totally wrong, but I think it is foolhardy *not* to seek advice and varied viewpoints.
pete_dushenski: downtime*
pete_dushenski: shinohai: sure, but i didn't see jurov seeking advice here. maybe i missed this in the logs ?
pete_dushenski: !s hashbang
assbot: 5 results for 'hashbang' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hashbang
BingoBoingo just tossed out that suggestion
pete_dushenski: the equivalent being jurov telling qntra to put up a paywall because "make more skrillz!"
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 242.36, Best ask: 242.37, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 242.37, 24 hour volume: 20324.8238345, 24 hour low: 235.75, 24 hour high: 248.48, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo: Would give that idea consideration
pete_dushenski: not saying you wouldn't
mats: i love drama
pete_dushenski: and maybe someday, we'll live to see it
pete_dushenski: mats: drama ? heh this little tickling ?
mats: your mom
pete_dushenski: speaking of qntra, it's coming up on its first bday, neh ?
pete_dushenski: october, wasn't it
pete_dushenski: pretty sweet
pete_dushenski: and s.qntr has gone from 0.00013514 to 0.00039 !!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00072881 = 10.422 BTC [-]
assbot: S.QNTR Analysis - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkjY2Y )
pete_dushenski: "Eugenie Bouchard has pulled out of the US Open with a concussion. TSN has learned that Bouchard sustained the injury on Friday night when she tripped while walking from the training room to room where the ice bath is located." << go canada ;/
shinohai: Qntra ... Powered by the tears of reddit (tm)
pete_dushenski: and truth !
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264355 << if this doesn't encourage a few more kids to put their money where their mouths are, nothing will. now if they only had any money...
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 21:27:29; mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.00541072 * 15000
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00072881 = 5.539 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29155 @ 0.00073723 = 21.4939 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00073866 = 23.6371 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264205 << win. where do i buy a ticket to the public impalement of the 'best practices' folks ?
asciilifeform: that's what i wanna know
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264271 << checking TAKES AS LONG AS RECALCULATING
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 20:36:02; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263952 << understand, there's no hardware solution to this problem. you may make the probability less, but the only path to certainty is checking.
asciilifeform: because it ~is~ equivalent to recalculating !
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264281 << neato. kakobrekla, do you have it on your list ?
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 20:42:32; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263954 << 188.68.240.159 is also online, running pressed stator.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264312 << if you let the attach be mime/txt, line endings will be mutilated, aha.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 21:10:03; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1263972 << add to that, "never use known file extensions".
asciilifeform: Because It Can.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264334 << tr0l0l0l, gold medal. can take off the walrus mask now - which one of you rascals was this.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 21:18:13; anton_osika: So long. Thanks for the voice until I can become friends with phunctor.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264370 << 'work' as in their presence must not make the thing blow up. atm, it does.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 21:47:05; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264012 << why would either work ?!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264422 << completely useless for anything but static html. it simply happens to be where my site lives
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 22:17:52; mats: https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net
asciilifeform: (you can't actually get a 24/7 unix process at n.f.s. - it's a plain old www hoster, 1990s-style)
asciilifeform: ~and~ it's american.
asciilifeform: prolly not of interest to anyone here.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 22:22:10; mats: in fact i think alf does?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264443 << i don't expect to get anything out of this. or rather, i don't expect to see any of the things that i want, for the price i can afford. this requires broke, desperate americans selling to make rent. and i can't see them doing it on mircea_popescutron
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 22:22:48; pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: unless you already have dark market connex, you might have to wait for mircea_popescu/trinque's new buy/sell board ;)
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 22:31:46; mircea_popescu: incidentally /me hates that trait more than any other.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 22:31:55; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell asciilifeform also, 'order id 22472' would indicate that you have more available btc than rothschilds. who's poor now ? (and yes, i understand that no one will ever actually offer you 'taig' via -otc)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264569 << it's that one bloke, every time. mr. misspell.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 23:07:59; mircea_popescu: i dunno. oddly the stan brood never talks.
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 23:46:21; mircea_popescu: ml also interesting for all the misdirection and denial work Peter Gutmann pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz sinks into the matter.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264614 << note the standard slimeball blame shift to the folks who busted the bug vault, rather than the turds who collected and sat on the goodies for usgtronic purpose
assbot: Logged on 06-09-2015 23:56:11; assbot: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover Firefox security holes – and exploit them • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1iqD4HV )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-09-2015#1264649 << where does my personal circle of hell fit into this dante inferno ? y'know, the one with work
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 00:33:26; mircea_popescu: on the plus side, you won't have any actual work to do, that sort where you could encounter and might have to overcome your own stupidity and general human limitations.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-09-2015#1264658 << omitted important elements, the zombie city and the celestial horde.
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 00:41:34; mircea_popescu: either don't be stupid, if you can, or if you can't, then don't be negative. sorcerers in the celestial city. zombies in the zombie horde.
asciilifeform in zombie city
asciilifeform moonlights in celestial horde
asciilifeform: wallowin' with the eagles.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-09-2015#1264661 << 'negative' there is codespeak for '#b-a and other thoughtcrimes'
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 00:45:54; shinohai: No one wants to be around someone that always projects negativity. But isn't there something to be said for honesty?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00073866 = 3.0285 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/a/GIDeo << i went there today. and this is how i imagine your old house looks like.
assbot: The Museum of Sleep-ad-Libitum ! - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1VHYo9U )
asciilifeform: five motherfucking stories of it.
mircea_popescu: ahaha no, those chairs suck
asciilifeform: there were perhaps 1,001 types of chair.
asciilifeform: from ludovic vii to aeron.
mircea_popescu: they all seem the same, but maybe just bad pic choice
asciilifeform: rooms had 'countries' theme - 'britain', 'russia', etc.
asciilifeform: with predominantly 19th c (or early to mid 20th in some cases) setting for each.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-09-2015#1264739 << there's always one of these precious "oh nothing happened lolz" derps mixing themselves in every discussion
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 01:59:41; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-09-2015#1264609 << this needs exposition work imho
mircea_popescu: in this case, it was gutmann
asciilifeform: how else!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16825 @ 0.00072652 = 12.2237 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: i had never before been inside a hose half like that.
asciilifeform: it was brain-melting.
asciilifeform: ~THIS~ is how actual people lived.
mircea_popescu: re that "blame shift" : i wouldn't even say it's blame shift or anything. pure "us vs them" mentality. obama bombs some schools ? YAY! schools organise and shoot some us terrorists ? BOO!!1
asciilifeform: ^ makes sense
asciilifeform: btw that was also the first time in my entire life in usa that i saw proper european-height ceilings.
asciilifeform: (in a residential bldg)
mircea_popescu: and ftr it's perfectly sound. who exactly do you suppose will get quarter for "having been a very competent usg agent" ?
mircea_popescu: chtulhu can eat him first
asciilifeform: speaking of which, the curator informed me that j.e.hoover quartered his agents in that place.
mircea_popescu: what is it, some sort of hotrel ?
asciilifeform: house of 19th c. mega-imperial somebody, turned into a museum-cum-whore-hotel
asciilifeform: http://www.omansion.com << very spammy www, if i learned of it from www instead of wandering in, would not have even contemplated setting foot near it
assbot: The Mansion on O Street™ | Events, weddings, b&b & more in Dupont Circle, Washington DC. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VHZsL2 )
asciilifeform: possibly one of the worst company www i have ever seen.
asciilifeform: and yes, one can rent the place by the hour, day, month, and actually shit in them golden toilets !!
asciilifeform: ^ ben_vulpes et al
asciilifeform: ^ anybody else in gringolandia.
mats: lol, front page: white, azn, brown child
asciilifeform: mats: i disrecommend the www; just see my photos.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4725 @ 0.00072985 = 3.4485 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: though ftr i was there for ~2h and didn't visit even half the rooms.
asciilifeform was there with pet, and afterwards we had debate re: whether 'if even a few of the folks with maxint usd wanted a house like this, how many could be satisfied, ..., ..., turkey-buying dollars (tm), ..., ... .'
mats: i looked at em, gaudy stuff
asciilifeform: mats: much of the garbage in the photos is 'yard sale'
asciilifeform: (literally, the folks who work in that place, brought the crud in for sale)
asciilifeform: it is where the piles of 'books' came from
mats: lol
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely certain what exactly strikes your fancy so, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: similar feeling to when i saw an american grocery store for first time
mircea_popescu: !up zveda
zveda: mircea_popescu: thanks
mircea_popescu: aha. who're you ?
asciilifeform: 'so this is what actual life looked like.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the abundance of items ? or what ?
asciilifeform: nonononono
asciilifeform: of space.
asciilifeform: fuck the items.
mircea_popescu: first bidet masquerading as bathtub ive ver seen
asciilifeform: there were something like seven wooden tubs of various kinds, in just the rooms i saw
mats: reminds me of bath stall for old folks
asciilifeform: no 'pressed shitboard' either
asciilifeform: mats: actually old ru rubs were of the 'sit-down' kind
asciilifeform: mats: i bathed in one as a boy
asciilifeform: it was sop.
mats: interesting
asciilifeform: then shittification, pressboardification, 'modern' towers, shitter/bath combos, and 'lie-down' enameled steel tubs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, you ever been on the west coast ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope
mircea_popescu: are you going ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: never had a reason to go
asciilifeform: i've never been to alaska either
mircea_popescu: well there certainly exist better museums of "sleep ad libitum" all through california.
asciilifeform: and it is ahead on the list
mircea_popescu: yes but this'd be relevant to your interests.
asciilifeform: any in particular ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, dude, chris rhea's house lol.
mircea_popescu: anyone really.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00073432 = 6.6089 BTC [+] {5}
asciilifeform: it is a museum ?
asciilifeform: i don't personally know a fella named chris rhea.
asciilifeform: so i can't imagine he would invite me for tea.
asciilifeform: (given that i've never heard of such a man)
assbot: Runaway rhea, Chris, is shot dead by a gamekeeper - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1VI0TJj )
asciilifeform: 'Local gamekeeper said he understood that the police wanted the bird dispatched because they were worried that it could cause a car crash'
assbot: Leland Stanford Mansion SHP ... ( http://bit.ly/1VI0S8s )
asciilifeform: seems like he is dead. and was a bird.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now ~that~'s a mega-museum.
asciilifeform puts on map.
mircea_popescu: but srsly, east coast is famous for crampy, shitty quarters.
mircea_popescu: of more genuine historical interest, ;;google Captain George Flavel House
asciilifeform: i think the 'cramped' actually made it appealing to my inner submariner
mircea_popescu: you have an inner submariner ?
asciilifeform: (more pointedly, made it 'plausibly like places in my head')
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my old flat had just enough void air in it to physically pass from one room to another.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all the rest - shelves, bulkheads
mircea_popescu: periscope depth, captn!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the place was also set up in such a way that one must look for hidden doors (e.g., swing-out book cases) to find new rooms
asciilifeform: a kind of labyrinth
asciilifeform: this played straight into the mega-phantasy in my dream world of 'found extra room in house' that i've been afflicted with since childhood
asciilifeform dreams (literally) of rooms the way a hungry man does of food
asciilifeform: it is interesting how visiting, e.g., a gigantic warehouse, or stadium, does not tickle this fantasy
asciilifeform: because those spaces do not register as 'plausibly like somewhere i can picture living'
asciilifeform: for one thing, a four-story warehouse ceiling is vertical space and ipso facto wasted.
asciilifeform: (from my hindbrain's pov)
asciilifeform: whereas an endless succession of labyrinthine chambers is precisely it.
asciilifeform: i now understand why chinese emperors (and american industrialists) built them!
asciilifeform: it was a kind of theme park of not-feeling-cramped
mircea_popescu: isn't "Found extra rooms in house" kinda like "found extra procedures in code" ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, my place in timisoara was ~5k sqft on two levels.
mircea_popescu: perfectly standard for the local upper middle class
asciilifeform: no so different from where my parents live, size-wise
mircea_popescu: had the option to buy it for like 80k, which i didn't take.
asciilifeform: 80k barely buys a van here.
mircea_popescu: yes but you live in a shithole.
asciilifeform does not dispute this
asciilifeform: actually i am wrong, fella i know bought a spiffy van for 70k
asciilifeform: anyway, 1,2,3,infinity.
asciilifeform: 80 may as well be 800 or 800,000,000 from my pov.
mircea_popescu: what, it's like 400 btc
mircea_popescu: not even 1k!!1
mircea_popescu: im just being silly.
trinque: asciilifeform: you do live in the worst possible part of the US
trinque: move to Houston, do math for an oil company
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11850 @ 0.00073894 = 8.7564 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: trinque: see thread.
trinque: the beltway is *not* all there is
trinque: so do science after 5
trinque: I dun geddit
asciilifeform: trinque: read thread, and maybe get it.
asciilifeform: or not.
asciilifeform: trinque: i have zero, zip, nada, interest in being an interchangeable part.
asciilifeform: trinque: if you cannot understand this, i am probably wasting space here attempting to explain it.
trinque: to that I have two responses
trinque: one, do some acid
trinque: two, taqiya
asciilifeform: trinque: would love some acid. might make this existence bearable. see old thread re: why i never had any.
asciilifeform: trinque: as for taqiya, it worked pre-google.
asciilifeform: perhaps.
trinque: asciilifeform: I was telling mr ben_vulp` earlier I'd love to get you some if I'm ever able
trinque: sadly, am currently not
trinque: just to see what'd happen
asciilifeform: dope is over-rated.
trinque: acid's special; not the least bit a matter of getting intoxicated in the usual sense
asciilifeform: !s a smell of petroleum prevails throughout
assbot: 1 results for 'a smell of petroleum prevails throughout' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=a+smell+of+petroleum+prevails+throughout
asciilifeform: trinque: as for your oil men, it is a basic truism of salary men in usa that no one is ever, under any circumstances, paid a salary large enough to stop being a salary man.
asciilifeform: it is an elementary thing.
asciilifeform: kinda like if you were kommendant of auschwitz, you wouldn't give a capo a machinegun
asciilifeform: no matter how much you trusted him.
trinque: I see oil and a few other things as the few remaining inputs on the US "economy
trinque: end quote.
asciilifeform: trinque: i am specifically laughing at your notion that i would hate life less if i were to agree to spend MORE HOURS PER DAY doing IDIOT SCUTWORK in exchange for slightly more banana peels.
trinque: ah shit man, I have meatwot friends working for these oil companies
trinque: they pillage and they live well.
asciilifeform: trinque: live well == sleep ad libitum.
asciilifeform: do they ?
asciilifeform: i think you already answered the question though
asciilifeform: they do not.
asciilifeform: given as 'they work for...'
asciilifeform: a cubic kilometre of house is worthless if you can't spend your top waking hours there.
trinque: or another meatwot friend working for a tradebot company
trinque: who tried to hire me
asciilifeform: again, working.
trinque: ends at 5!
trinque: gets his dick sucked the rest of the time!
asciilifeform: 'cause no energy for actual thought, aha
mats: so lets get down to it, asciilifeform
mats: how many hours of actual work do you do per week
asciilifeform: hard to say
asciilifeform: and what is 'actual work'
asciilifeform: does sitting in the wheel coffin count ?
mats: the sort you abhor, sure, include driving
asciilifeform: (traditionally not, but it isn't like i would be there if it were not for the rest of it)
mats: thats ten hours a week right?
trinque: taqiya
trinque: not every act of my career is a manifestation of my principles
trinque: sometimes I'm just trying to get paid
trinque: stick another y on that, I guess
trinque reminisces briefly about the persian chick he dated
mats: 20 hours of driving? really?
trinque: probably most beautiful women on earth.
asciilifeform: mats: sure.
asciilifeform: mats: what is so astonishing
trinque: that's 2hrs commute a day
trinque: can happen
trinque: houston traffic gets crazy
asciilifeform: 2 is the bestcase
mats: i dunno how your mental formula works, but i'd certainly pay to live closer
trinque: thing is, I know guys that just chose to be the smartest guy at a truly asinine startup
trinque: they make great money, they do whatever they please in their free time
trinque: I run a business, but I have no quarrel with those that just maximize their own path through the whole retarded mess./
trinque: I started my business by neglecting other retarded pursuits and building the other thing in spare time.
asciilifeform: mats: i can't even begin to afford to live near where i work.
asciilifeform: mats: literally twice or more per square metre.
trinque: oh asciilifeform, DC and surrounding sucks so much.
trinque: surely you understand that the sludge flows out from exactly there?
asciilifeform: trinque: of course.
asciilifeform: trinque: i don't work for the sludge though.
trinque: I know, but proximity!
asciilifeform: what about it? it isn't like this is ancient china and you don't have to pay tax if you live far away from the tax collector.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00073894 = 6.0593 BTC [+]
trinque: yeah, but you just don't run into them.
trinque: everyone of consequence in TX hates the federal government.
trinque: deeply, and as a matter of principle
asciilifeform: trinque: do they pay a penny less of tax from this ?
trinque: you just feel that way, and wait for the other thing to fail.
asciilifeform: feel ahahaha lol.
trinque: how many years do you think the federal govt has left?
asciilifeform: 10,000.
trinque: the gov of texas talked openly about secession throughout his term.
asciilifeform: or not.
asciilifeform: but longer than i have.
trinque: they will destroy the currency and fail
asciilifeform: sure. and then i will be dead.
trinque: who knows.
asciilifeform: nah i'm pretty sure.
asciilifeform: mats: i will add, to earlier thread, that it is not even reliably possible to ~rent a house at all~ near where i work.
asciilifeform: renting out houses is not something that is done, generally, in the richer parts of MD.
mats: it becomes 2x per sqm to get so much as 30mins from work?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9820 @ 0.00073894 = 7.2564 BTC [+]
mats: and you cannot rent rooms either i suppose?
asciilifeform: fuck rooms
asciilifeform: what, you think i will put up with sharing toilet with strangers ?
asciilifeform: seen them, smelling them ?
asciilifeform: why the everliving fuck should i even think about this.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> hard to say << heh.
mats: so princely
asciilifeform: so minimum-human-ly.
asciilifeform: how many unrelated, unfucked adults does mats share his quarters with ?
asciilifeform: (today, not in the barrack)
mats: wat is 'unfucked'
asciilifeform: ones you do not regularly have sex with
mircea_popescu: interesting metric.
mircea_popescu: makes the collegiate campus a winner. especially at arizona state.
mats: i live alone atm. moved recently. but for most of non-barracks, non-univ adulthood i shared quarters with 2-4 other people
mats: and i expect to do so again in a year or so
mats: i don't abhor it like you do, will prob do it willingly well into late 20s
mats: sharing toilet with four others does suck, though. but small price to pay to hold onto more wages
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