Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-08-20 | 2015-08-22 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00066937 = 17.5375 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: jackbootedstatist comments on In no less than six years of block size increases XTCoin would be a defanged and impotent caricature of actual Bitcoin. ... ( http://bit.ly/1hPiYXx )
BingoBoingo: "Wow, is that mind bent. It's like r/iamverysmart crossed with extreme ancap libertarianism, with a dash of cultist "one true bitcoin", and possibly some blockstream fed small block euphoria. It's purified crazy."
BingoBoingo: Also... apparently there is a smart shaming subreddit
mircea_popescu: all this "blockstream" stuff is so lulzy. random derpy outfit with enough money to cover 18 months' worth of modest burn rate.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wait, does that mean idiots trying to make smart people feel bad about being smart ?!
BingoBoingo: "Use smaller words" "I can't read that" "Write for roach comprehension"
mircea_popescu: in other news... the reddit is mainstream bitcoin now ? in what alt-world ?
assbot: overview for BLUEMEANIE4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1hPjiW0 )
mircea_popescu: ;;ud Potemkin
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=potemkin | Comes from a legend of Governor Potemkin of Crimea who supposedly created sham villages (Potemkin Villages) to impress his queen from a distance, but this ...
mircea_popescu: i had nfi what the anglos are trying to say by "potemkin", which is a common enough name, among people with an actual culture.
mircea_popescu: i kept thinking salce's "corazzata potemkin" and it just didn't make any sense.
mircea_popescu: ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=grJNVDs2_70 as clifnotes)
asciilifeform: maxim of the day: only visit anthill with a magnifying glass in your pocket.
mircea_popescu: it's funny what of the outside world makes it in.
asciilifeform: otherwise, just frustrating.
mircea_popescu: how did they hear of crimean potemkin but not of the great red ship ? who knows.
asciilifeform was mega-cultureshocked when asked colleagues about ants and magnifying glass and no one knew of this
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in maryland they burn the ants with empathy, no need for technology.
asciilifeform: nah it's closer to 'what's an ant'
mats: maybe i had a shit magnifying glass but i never got it to work
mircea_popescu: mats nobody had shittier glass than russian kids.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> how did they hear of crimean potemkin but not of the great red ship ? who knows. << Cold War culture. Those ruskies love playing pretend...
asciilifeform: mats: gotta be around the size of your palm, to work reliably
mircea_popescu: just need a stable hand to keep it colimated.
asciilifeform: and this.
asciilifeform: most importantly.
mircea_popescu: by far. as even one inch off... you lose 97% or so of power
asciilifeform: good tutorial in 1/d^2
mats: ic
mircea_popescu: best way for kids to understand what nonlinear means
asciilifeform: can give kid (chemically untreated - go, find, in usa) wooden plank, in lieu of ants, if the latter cannot be had
mircea_popescu: i think only works on dry pine.
mircea_popescu: maybe birch bark shavings
asciilifeform: gotta be dry and sans the 'fire-resisting' crud
mircea_popescu: actually needs the fire-enabling resin.
mircea_popescu: i dun think plain wood catches.
asciilifeform: typically don't want 'catch' but to turn black/brown in nice gradations
asciilifeform: to draw on.
mircea_popescu: you know we had a special soldering iron for doing that, at school ?
asciilifeform: but i had, brother's, at home
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the crimean event was pre-ww2.
mircea_popescu: but i guess still works discoursively sure.
asciilifeform: (not quite same device, but similar)
mircea_popescu: omfg so 1970
asciilifeform: mega-70s.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah mythology. Stalin was an evolution of Peter's empty facades and clumsy imitation of the west.
BingoBoingo: So says 'Murican narrative
asciilifeform: my mother (was a dermatologist) had one of these ^ modified as a radiothermal cauterizer
asciilifeform: (apparatus where a small tesla coil craps out high-freq current which burns out, e.g., a mole; what closes the circuit? ~you~, as an antenna!)
BingoBoingo: Very common.
asciilifeform: not mega-surprise, proper medical gear was scarce.
asciilifeform: l0l!!!!
asciilifeform: ^ 'toy. for children 8-16 years.'
asciilifeform: just picture trying this in usa!!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> not mega-surprise, proper medical gear was scarce. << Still rather state of the art.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the basic concept was introduced in early '40s and not changed since.
asciilifeform: as in, while tesla still lived.
BingoBoingo: of course, how could it be invented otherwise
asciilifeform: it is lulzy to show this gadget to students/n00bz with a piece of metal uncontacted by any ground on the other side, and nice tall spark
asciilifeform: and ask 'what closes circuit' ?
mircea_popescu: it's lulzier to propose to people that "lightning could never strike aeroplane - what's to close the circuit ?!?!?!"
assbot: Bomb Hunters Afghanistan National Geographic Documentary - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1E7R2Yz )
mats: 95% of sappers i ever talked to performed missions just like this
mats: their entire deployment
mircea_popescu: mats "get us some food" ?
mats: lots became firefighters after, to chase the thrill
mircea_popescu: "Maid of Athens, ere we part, give, oh, give back my heart! Or, since that has left my breast... keep it now, and take the rest! Hear my vow before I go, ζωή μου, σᾶς ἀγαπῶ."
mircea_popescu: now that's what i call genius. that thing actually fucking rhymes, agapou / go are exactly homophonic.
BingoBoingo: <mats> lots became firefighters after, to chase the thrill << The one part of the Nordic system that works always. Once people get hooked on the thrill you don't have to pay them in anything other than opportunity to continue.
mats: welp, the way building codes makes shit safer, you just end up jerking off in the firehouse or starting a business on the job
mircea_popescu: or getting shot by some ghetto monkey.
mats: if i wasn't so broke i'd probably make a go at it
BingoBoingo has moderated his future vehicle plans. Instead of firetruck contemplating pickup truck.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1246988 >> i was taught that english call this item 'macaronic poem.' in my mind, the iconic instance is pelevin's 'my sister, do you still recall как Ельцин бился мордой в пол ?'
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 04:56:04; mircea_popescu: "Maid of Athens, ere we part, give, oh, give back my heart! Or, since that has left my breast... keep it now, and take the rest! Hear my vow before I go, ζωή μου, σᾶς ἀγαπῶ."
mircea_popescu: nonsense, "macaronic" my foot. it's above language not below it.
asciilifeform: complain to them, not me, l0l
mircea_popescu: but hey, the nationalistic ambitions of victoria, regina horsefucker.
mircea_popescu: is the "face down fight" a sort of fucking ?
asciilifeform: nah it's him hammering the ground with his face (falling down drunk)
mircea_popescu: btw, i have been wondering since the stuff started : how is it that tatar-bunar's never mentioned re the ukrainian situation ?
mircea_popescu: the very approximative knowledge in humanities of the english speaking folk, at both astroturf and crackpot/armchair general level never ceases to amaze me.
mircea_popescu: they've heard of one potemkin but not another, they know of this but not that, they're familiar with queens but don't think the brooklyn bridge exists, stuff like that.
mircea_popescu: wtf am i to make of all this!
BingoBoingo: It's broken
mircea_popescu: for that matter, "Требование увода советских войск из Грузии и организации референдума "под контролем смешанных комиссий из социалистов и коммунистов" представляет собой одну из самых низкопробных империалистских ловушек под демократи
mircea_popescu: ческим флагом национального самоопределения." approximately translates to "fuck you nuland".
mircea_popescu: basically, nobody knows anything anymore.
mircea_popescu: http://www.ziartricolorul.ro/fostul-ministru-de-externe-adrian-severin-da-lovitura-de-gratie-amestecului-brutal-al-yankeilor-in-justitia-romana/ << obscure romanian fringe thing, printing the letter an obscure romanian twerp (caught in corruption probe, kicked out of eu parliament, as the last phase of his public decay - only ended up in the eu parliament because at the time that's where romania sent all its bankrupt n
assbot: Fostul ministru de Externe Adrian Severin dă lovitura de graţie amestecului brutal al yankeilor în Justiţia Română | | Ziar Tricolorul ... ( http://bit.ly/1NJ0Vfv )
mircea_popescu: ames to die out).
mircea_popescu: this thing is only notable because the guy is exactly correct in what he says. but he's easily the least frequentable name in romanian politics, short of actual mental cases. and this not in a good way - he truly is reprehensible.
mircea_popescu: how this shit works, where truth only ends up spoken by the thoroughly disgraced, is my favourite mystery of nature.
mircea_popescu: for as long as there's even the faintest hope of maybe one day scamming someone, every last human being is 100% jwz.
mircea_popescu: once that absolute last hope is lost, suddenly they're all saints somehow. da fuck.
mircea_popescu: ;;google freedom's just another name for nothing left to lose
gribble: Janis Joplin - Me and Bobby McG - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTHRg_iSWzM>; Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose - Genius: <http://genius.com/1028439/Janis-joplin-me-and-bobby-mcgee/Freedoms-just-another-word-for-nothing-left-to-lose>; Kris Kristofferson – Me and Bobby McGee Lyrics | Genius: <http://genius.com/Kris-kristofferson-me-and-bobby- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: it must be.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: wb
Vexual: nty
assbot: Dermatologist agrees to sales tax deal with Frontenac : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1E7UNNT )
Vexual: #couthasfuck
BingoBoingo: "This city is highly dependent on sales tax, and where a business will be operating under a conditional use permit due to parking and traffic considerations, we feel it reasonable that it pays a PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes)," City Administrator Bob Shelton said. "The medical service fees are not taxable but when the practices sell items, sales tax is involved."
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell asciilifeform How do you handle an overloaded dosimeter? I've just kind of been ignoring it but the burns and nausea are piling up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15366 @ 0.00067044 = 10.302 BTC [+]
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Vexual: you got niggaz on comix.qntra?
assbot: Illinois hit with downgrades as Springfield goes more than 50 days without a budget : Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1E7UZww )
Vexual: 0.2 day without a riot
Vexual: getting to be a bit of a commonality
joecool: what's the ideal bitcoind version to run nodes with nowadays?
Vexual: anything, just wear a condom
Vexual: or syphillis
BingoBoingo: <joecool> what's the ideal bitcoind version to run nodes with nowadays? << Either 'stator' with protocol ticked to 99999 or anything with a lulzy version string
Vexual: alf mod6 voopz have a version named after cool shit
Vexual: you can even make em report aas u like
Vexual: retort?
joecool: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11109 @ 0.00066925 = 7.4347 BTC [-] {3}
danielpbarron: !s rotor
assbot: 176 results for 'rotor' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rotor
danielpbarron: joecool, ^
assbot: Most Serene Republic Begins Advertising Public Blockchain Seed Nodes | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1DtwUjM )
mircea_popescu: joecool iirc it was 0.5.4 or whatever you feel like
Vexual: don't fuck with satoshi engineering
Vexual: even accidentals were indicental
BingoBoingo: joecool: With the anticipated spam attacks ideally you will want to bolt the Ophanage amputation and thermonuke modifications to whatever you choose. Also make sure you fix the BDB locks problem in your chose codebase. Anything post 0.3.21 and pre 0.8 should be fine. If you don't have particular things you fuss over 0.5.4'stator/rotor' is probably as close to idea as you will come
joecool: BingoBoingo: if i have fetched blockchain with a newer version will i need to refetch?
joecool: or is reindex sufficient
Vexual: joecool, the answer presents itself
mircea_popescu: how newer ?
BingoBoingo: joecool: If your blockchain is later than 0.7-ish you will need to refetch
BingoBoingo: 0.8 introduced the leveldb bullshit
joecool: damn, oh well no matter
Vexual: fatchoverlan ifuliek
BingoBoingo: It's not that big of a deal. Mostly CPU bound anyways so if it is slow you can blame you own machine.
BingoBoingo: brb, time travel
Vexual: tdc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.0006879 = 14.0332 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36222 @ 0.00067328 = 24.3875 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: danielpbarron: that appears to be in need of my patch
cazalla: !up hk61ocL6zIE
cazalla: hk61ocL6zIE, nah not tonight mate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32300 @ 0.00068571 = 22.1484 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: whats for dinner you big cunt?
Vexual: half a sidde of beef?
cazalla: just a porterhouse and some veg
Vexual: you dont fuck about me friend
Vexual: choice cut and or rabbits
Vexual: crankin the barbie i guess?
cazalla: nah, just pan fry for quick meal once kid is in bed
Vexual: noice
Vexual: no time to shoot a rabbit
Vexual: heres one i prepared earlier
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00066925 = 6.4917 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22478 @ 0.00068791 = 15.4628 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: phf: some dick owns the rights
Vexual: plural
Vexual: hows the ratraces cazalla?
Vexual: ill bet theres a blackfella on the books
Vexual: tell me im wrong
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1246926 I can't even remember all the things I tried to burn with magn. glass
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 04:23:54; *: asciilifeform was mega-cultureshocked when asked colleagues about ants and magnifying glass and no one knew of this
Vexual: cunts cog it
Vexual: hippies burn bongs with a lens here
Vexual: palm width machine as someone said
punkman: Vexual: are they too poor for butane?
Vexual: too rich, prefer incidental sun
Vexual: pinch your lighter in the nightime like a fucking bum
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1246989 << it does rhyme, but only if you pronounce go as "goh"
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 04:56:25; mircea_popescu: now that's what i call genius. that thing actually fucking rhymes, agapou / go are exactly homophonic.
mircea_popescu disagrees with punkman over how greek's supposed to be said.
Vexual: i quit
mircea_popescu: go is /gəʊ/. ἀγαπῶ is /ʌgʌpəʊ/.
Vexual: 86 billion pay it back with your shit pit
mircea_popescu: IPA notation's not even exact enough to capture how close the two final vowels ACTUALLY are.
punkman: well I dunno if it that was the case 500 years ago, certainly not today
mircea_popescu: do ἀγαπῶ and "ἀγαπο" sound different, today ?
punkman: I'm bad at the whole making sounds thing, but I suppose ω would be slightly longer than ο
mircea_popescu: i guess it simplified huh.
punkman: simplified a lot
mircea_popescu: ῶ is obviously supposed to be... long omicron.
mircea_popescu: ("sweeter omega", realy, in the words of my very old classics teacher, but that'd be a term of art)
punkman: Ancient greek class, at least as I remember it, never focused on the sounds. It was more "here's 150 grammar rules to memorize"
mircea_popescu: i... skipped that part :D
punkman: I gotta say though, reading text peppered with 5 diacritics per word, makes my eyes hurt
mircea_popescu: you ever seen early romanian ?
punkman: is it even worse? :P
assbot: Grafia istorica a limbii romane on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ppy4xs )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15450 @ 0.00068791 = 10.6282 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.0006722 = 16.6706 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: gross profit = total income now !?
mircea_popescu: what the fucking omf.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha 50mn extraordinary on 80mn justified expense bwahahaha o god.
mircea_popescu: are they in jail yet ?
punkman: "Snapchat’s ad rates have declined rapidly. This month the company announced it would start to charge $20 per 1,000 views, a fraction of its earlier price, agencies say."
punkman: $20cpm, a fraction!!
mircea_popescu: just how broke IS the us these days ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think i sat that close to people since being about five.
scoopbot_revived: I killed one, I'm publishing another, who the hell knows what's going on anymore. http://trilema.com/2015/i-killed-one-im-publishing-another-who-the-hell-knows-whats-going-on-anymore/
mircea_popescu: and the mcdonalds happy meal diet clearly isn't agreeing with nuland.
mircea_popescu: wait. tidd ?! da fuck is tidd doing there. and donfried roflmao. omfg this is the elephant funeral already.
mircea_popescu: best keks pic of today.
mircea_popescu: punkman 20 cpm is outrageous anyway. they could get maybe 3.5 or something.
assbot: Meet 'Deez Nuts,' the Teen Presidential Candidate Punking America | Rolling Stone ... ( http://bit.ly/1WIZfZv )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60394 @ 0.00068791 = 41.5456 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Exploring the Wreck of USS Macon, The Navy's Last Flying Aircraft Carrier - USNI News ... ( http://bit.ly/1WIZDqW )
mircea_popescu: trump actually leading clinton dear god.
punkman: nobody wants the job eh
mircea_popescu: i think the woman is deeply insulted.
shinohai: ^ this guy
punkman: "Creator of The Ideal Reserve with about a decade of experience in applied economics, over a decade of experience in finance, and over two decades of experience in technology."
assbot: The Ideal Reserve - a decentralized, instantaneous, price stable, cryptocurrency ... ( http://bit.ly/1HZobAQ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14662 @ 0.00068974 = 10.113 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: and nine years bitcoin expertience
shinohai: r/buttcoin laghed at him a few eeks back
shinohai: it was epic
mircea_popescu: cumulated experience ?
shinohai: emphasis on "cum"
punkman: "By downloading and/or executing the Ideal Reserve Clearinghouse application, you agree to the following terms: You will not attempt to reverse engineer the Ideal Reserve Clearinghouse application."
shinohai: whatever
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 03:05:31; asciilifeform: holy fuck is assbot broken.
mircea_popescu: whatnow ?!
punkman: lol
mircea_popescu: punkman by reading this you agree not to agree with the ideal herp derp whateverthefuck.
shinohai: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0Y1CSXG.txt )
fluffypony: by continuing to read this sentence you acknowledge and agree to the aforementioned terms, if you do not agree with them you should have stopped reading like 3 sentences back
mircea_popescu: by blinking you agree milk is better than soy sauce.
shinohai: isn't this the same genius that tried to sell bible coin or some shit by issuing fake shares?
kakobrekla: thats pretty much the standard
kakobrekla: shitload of pages has this in their tos ... ' if you came here, you agree with all what we say below: you are a dick. '
yang: kakobrekla: hi
kakobrekla: heya sup
yang: kakobrekla: nothing special
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1246340 <<< jesus christ, put the poor bastard out of his misery instead
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 00:08:02; ag3nt_zer0: seen this anyone? pretty fucking miraculous that power of music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyZQf0p73QM
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00068426 = 5.7136 BTC [-] {2}
shinohai: Euthanasia, it's whats for dinner.
fluffypony: shinohai: why would we want to eat the youth in Asia?
fluffypony giggles
mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3hrum5/degenerate_gambler_mircea_popescu_muses_about_how/cuagfoj << in an improbable twist of win, /r/buttcoin moves from proitesting bitcoin because "unlike fiat currency IT IS NOT BASED ON ACTUAL VALUE" to protesting eulora. because...
assbot: Mycelium_Running comments on Degenerate gambler Mircea Popescu muses about how female monkeys love their rapists but will attack beta males: "No female monkey that's been raped, even if regularly and consistently, ever attacks the rapist." ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmBegE )
mircea_popescu: unlike REAL activity it is not based on... ACTUAL VALUE!!11
mircea_popescu: but enough laughs for today. tomorrow is another lolday!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23309 @ 0.00070019 = 16.3207 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.0006931 = 15.1789 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00069166 = 14.8707 BTC [-]
mats: >assbot chokes
assbot: What ISIS And American College Campuses Surprisingly Have In Common ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jou8g1 )
punkman: "The problem is staggering. According to a White House report, one in five women (20 percent) is sexually assaulted in college. Around 5 percent of men report being sexually assaulted on campus as well."
mats: heh
mats: in other news, I have perfected my Japanese Curry recipe
mats: it is dericious
fluffypony: mats: do you serve it with flied lice?
fluffypony: sorry that was terrible, couldn't resist :-P
mats: no man
punkman: mats, what's the recipe then, don't be a cooktease
mats: what a waste of good curry
mats: my recipe can only be shared with folks rated 5 or higher in my wot
mats: sorry
fluffypony: !gettrust mats
assbot: Trust relationship from user fluffypony to user mats: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=fluffypony&to=mats | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/mats/
assbot: Argentine military capability almost all gone ... ( http://bit.ly/1JowUlD )
mats: >2012 saw the training ship ARA Libertad seized in Ghana on the orders of a hedge fund seeking reparations from the Argentinian government. Shortly afterward, the corvette ARA Espora was stranded in South Africa for seventy-three days after the German company hired to repair a mechanical fault refused to carry out the work as a result of the Argentine
mats: government’s unpaid bills.
mats: ouch
chetty: you know its interesting how argentina demonstrates normality ..all of the hoopla about what if 'greece' or whoevers todays whipping boy defaults ..not much, life goes on really
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67100 @ 0.00067641 = 45.3871 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64900 @ 0.00067112 = 43.5557 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 02:22:08; mircea_popescu: Иное дело — социализм. Уничтожение различия между физическим и умственным трудом будет происходить именно по линии объединения хозяйства в единый организм во всемирном масштабе, по линии всеобщего обязательного высше
kakobrekla: eh how the fuck
kakobrekla just pulled up a test assnode and it doesnt have this issue
punkman: seems to work
punkman: I get cyrillic in both web and irc
kakobrekla: i see garbage on irc but only on this chan, private msg and dev chan is ok
kakobrekla: so wtf.
kakobrekla: someone else that sees garbage on chan pls to paste the log link to assbot pvt msg and tell me what you get
punkman: ̴̳͚̬͍̫̪̙Z͉̤̺̻͢A̤͕͓̦L̘̰G͈̲͜O͖̠̳̣ͅ!̻̺̗͟
punkman: kakobrekla: how about that one
punkman: ̡̲̱̤̰͍͖̬̹̻̹̝̣̺̙͑̄̆ͤ̀͟͝͡ü̧̉̊ͤ̄͝҉҉̱̤̫̭̬n̷̛̝̱͉̟̙͓̤̟͕̟͍̦͕̠͔̠̺ͨ̅ͫ͒̅ͬ̋ͩ͑̉̊̏̍̾͌̒ͦ́̚͘͢ͅỉ̡̨̮̙̲̫̭̼̜̬̙̺̮̱̑͑̉ͣ̈́́̈́̓́̚̚͝ͅͅc̄̒̓ͮ̅͆͑ͣ͂ͦͩͥ̐ͪ͊̃ͩͧ̆͏͍͕̹̻̣͚̠̹̳̦̭̳̲͘͝ͅo̭̣̜̹̝̘͕ͭͣ͋̂͒̂ͩ̉̓ͪ̋̿̋͊ͤ̚͜ḑ̵ͯ̆ͣ͋͢͞͏͕͙̫͙̘̦̘̭͈̜͉͚̥̲e̴̷͔̣͙̜̤̣̦̭̯̫͎̪ͯ̽̓̿̌̍̈́͂̅͛̔̓̀͢͟Ì
kakobrekla: broked
thestringpuller: ;;seen jurov
gribble: jurov was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 hours, 17 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <jurov> i, in turn, supplied buttcoiners with a certain walrus, we'll see
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i see garbage
assbot: Multiple occurrences of king penguin (Aptenodytes patagonicus) sexual harassment by Antarctic fur seals (Arctocephalus gazella) - Springer ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4z2QT )
asciilifeform: 'We describe three new occurrences of the sexual coercion of king penguins (Aptenodytes patagonicus) by Antarctic fur seals (Arctocephalus gazella) on sub-Antarctic Marion Island. These recurrent observations follow a common pattern where the seal chases, captures and mounts the penguin, followed by copulation attempts. These observations are similar to a previously published observation from the same island, and we suggest th
asciilifeform: at this may be an emergent behaviour.'
assbot: Antarctic fur seal sexually coerces king penguin Как тюлень любил пингвина - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4zpeq )
punkman: kakobrekla: do you get cyrillic in that title?
mike_c: kakobrekla: if helpful - I see cyrillic on your lines, and garbage for whatever punkman posted
kakobrekla: punkman yea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20023 @ 0.00066887 = 13.3928 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: yeah not sure if iwant that
punkman: kakobrekla: don't be racist, equality for my unicodez
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://bitcoinist.net/bitpay-favor-merging-bip-101-bitcoin-core << >> time to stop feeding them ?
assbot: BitPay in Favor of Merging BIP 101 Into Bitcoin Core - Bitcoinist.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4HHTx )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: (or to start ?)
assbot: Bitcoin Core Devs in ‘Civil War’ Insist We’re Not Getting The Whole Story | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4HSyf )
asciilifeform: what a peculiar fishwrap. i read, for instance, the linked piece, http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-bitcoin-could-make-distributing-a-universal-basic-income-actually-possible -- and kept waiting for the mention of where they plan to steal it... didn't see one
assbot: How Bitcoin Could Make Distributing a Universal Basic Income Actually Possible | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4IXGm )
assbot: Is there a video with a panel discussion about the block size BIPs, fork drama, etc.? Is there demand for one? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4R59J )
chetty: whats with everything has to be a video? reading is a lost art?
BingoBoingo: Not even wrong: "However, the question of whether miners and pools will support that increase in the form of XT, a fork of Bitcoin Core, remains. It currently has 13.7% of bitcoin's hashing power behind it." << https://archive.is/41s4u
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9383 @ 0.00066444 = 6.2344 BTC [-]
assbot: Donate! | joac ... ( http://bit.ly/1NAl6yk )
BingoBoingo: I love finding out who reads Qntra sometimes, take this example of the editor of American Banker https://archive.is/3zJWA
assbot: Marc Hochstein on Twitter: ""Regulating use of bitcoin at the protocol level" -- would pretty much ruin it http://t.co/hfN1QCo8NT" ... ( http://bit.ly/1JaCA15 )
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 15:16:17; chetty: whats with everything has to be a video? reading is a lost art?
shinohai: I cannot learn from videos myself
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: didn't know that article was going to get any traction
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: The second Ashley Madison leak is mostly source code | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/1MDdqdL )
assbot: I am John McAfee AMA! : netsec ... ( http://bit.ly/1EIl7Jp )
ascii_field: 'There is nothing illegal that the government there is not into. The government is smart if you just go there as an American you will not be bothered. I lived in the jungles where I was the only white person, and they were on to me. They asked me for $2M, weeks later 40+ armed men stormed my house, shot my favorite dog, and held me in the sun with my hands tied. The next day the congressman came and apoligized and asked
ascii_field: for the $2M again. I should have done that rather than tell him to get the fuck off my property.'
chetty: a tad more blatant than the usg methods
ascii_field: 'There's going to be a shitload of stuff going down. The hacker said they were going to release. If it were me, I'd had come clean immediately to my wife. I had a TS clearance at Lockheed, and you have no idea what questions they asked. "Have you ever fucked a sheep?". When the OPM hack happened, I wrote an article where I came clean to everything.'
mircea_popescu: ascii_field "seems to be "
mircea_popescu: you know what, you seem to be in favour of obama, as reported by cnn.
mircea_popescu: laissez.
mircea_popescu: they've been in favour of preferably nobody remembering they exist until this goes away.
ascii_field: re: which
mircea_popescu: only got one gribble.
ascii_field: ah that.
ascii_field doesn't write these, just pulls them out of the sewer manhole
assbot: Increasing the Block Size Limit — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1EIrBI0 )
mircea_popescu: guy's prolly laboured for two weeks to make that thing, which he perhaps sees as "in the best us civilisation tradition".
mircea_popescu: anyway. "TTM" lol. srsly.
ascii_field: 'I don't have a preference (LTC/BTC/ETC). A company in Uraguay has improperly used my name....' (mcaffee)
ascii_field: ... does he pgp?
mircea_popescu: does he spellcheck ?
ascii_field: we already know answer to that
mircea_popescu: to both. he pcps.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
thestringpuller: oops lag
mats: he keeps talking about the proxyham wtf
ascii_field: mats: the man smokes dope
ascii_field: (likely - daily)
mircea_popescu: dope would be one thing, but this guy smokes the carpeting.
ascii_field: the linoleum
mircea_popescu: "Late Friday, the Twitter feed for Rhino Security, the consultancy run by the project’s creator Ben Caudill, announced that Caudill’s talk was being pulled from the DefCon line-up, and that the ProxyHam project was being called off. “Effective immediately, we are halting further dev on #proxyham and will not be releasing any further details or source for the device,” the message read. “Existing #proxyham unit
mircea_popescu: s will be disposed of and no longer be made available at [DefCon]”"
mats: proxyham can be built by a teenager with a day of research
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how america works.
ascii_field: it was pretty lame, too
ascii_field: wifi card plugged into a 900MHz (cordless telephony band in usa) modem
ascii_field: fiddybux for the whole thing
mats: >The old arts of spying has really disappeared, my favorite is Android, for ease-of-use. The first thing I do is root it with towelroot to remove update capabilities, then remove bloatware, then unroot it of course.
mats: g-genius
ascii_field: mats: the man runs winblowz. by own admission.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> dope would be one thing, but this guy smokes the carpeting. << likely smokes dope from a pipe carged out of a crack rock
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes, lame. but the thinking seems to be, it's no big deal if special people have machine guns, it's a big deal if common people have slingshots.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the basic thread is that usg is understandably unhappy about violations of the 'diddlable sop standard'
ascii_field: even something so humble as switching radio bands
ascii_field: all of sudden, $maxint snoop machine has to be rebuilt
ascii_field: forms in triplicate...
ascii_field: alternatively, disinfo to make idiots dig up the 900Mhz thing and use it
ascii_field: 'stand up to the establishment!'
ascii_field: the next multicolourphone.
ascii_field: it is even possible for both hypotheses to be true simultaneously
ascii_field: (two separate departments of muppetronics. as in tor.)
mircea_popescu: i have nfi who these guys are, they didn't have the modicum of a clue to make contact or anything. for all i know the whole thing's an orchestrated attempt to shore up the notion that anyone still gives a shit about the usg inside the us.
mircea_popescu: whoever knows.
mircea_popescu: "The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and American college campuses share a deplorable commonality: high frequencies of rape."
mircea_popescu: ajhahaha wut the fuck already.
mircea_popescu: these people are an insult to humanity.
mircea_popescu: "Survival Hunters and Gatherers Above the Arctic (SHGAA) and American college campuses share a deplorable commonality: they both walk on thin ice."
mircea_popescu: "The Federadion of Mosquitoes, Lice and Ticks (FMLT) and American college campuses share a deplorable commonality: they both suck"
mircea_popescu: "This Nonsensical Linguistic Construction (NLC) and American college campuses share a deplorable commonality: they both confuse referents"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13712 @ 0.000691 = 9.475 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: you know looking back... i remember a time when anglo web produced a lower proportion of articles that don't crash and burn in the first paragraph.
mircea_popescu: i think it was even under 80% at some point this millenium.
mircea_popescu: but at some time, back when the stupid parents of the current generation were yet illiterate, english was a pleasure to read.
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 12:52:10; fluffypony: mats: do you serve it with flied lice?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247230 << well, on the good news front, they never had any military capability to begin with
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 13:04:29; mats: ouch
mircea_popescu: a 2nd league hockey team could probably beat up the argentine armed forces.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247256 << emergent behaviour ? why, BECAUSE GLOBAL WARMING ?
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 14:15:56; asciilifeform: at this may be an emergent behaviour.'
mircea_popescu: reminds me of the scientist and the flea joke.
ascii_field: ask'em
mircea_popescu: i am asking them.
mircea_popescu chuckles at the thought of some [not so ?] distant time in the future when various derps will discover that "nobody could have predicted" they had a lengthy record of shit to answer for in the logs.
danielpbarron: btw I got stator to build with the rotor toolkit and it is currently syncing and up to 153k blocks
ascii_field: danielpbarron: congrats!
danielpbarron: also, on a gentoo install created with trinque's script thingy
mircea_popescu: this is starting to maybe coallesce huh.
thestringpuller: dunno if the buttcoiners hate or love #b-a
thestringpuller: hard to tell
danielpbarron: rotor feels like a "safe space" to borrow some redditard terminology
ascii_field: waaaht
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the motherboard article you linked says "satoshi" exactly once, ands that is to claim "and Satoshi showed with some basic calculations that hardware improvements were very likely to outpace Bitcoin growth for decades into the future."
mircea_popescu: somehow they never heard about more recent events.
ascii_field: naturally
mircea_popescu: not so naturally. why is the thing still getting links i don't get it ?
mircea_popescu: not like they have an actual perspective or anything to say
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24495 @ 0.000691 = 16.926 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the only thing that matters re propaganda is whether it gets repeated. that's 100% of it.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247281 << yeah, because numbers can be anything. for instance by this procedure motherboard has a readership. which fallacy gets a strangely memory-holed alf toi keep linking to it as if it were a thing, somehow.
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 15:19:42; BingoBoingo: Not even wrong: "However, the question of whether miners and pools will support that increase in the form of XT, a fork of Bitcoin Core, remains. It currently has 13.7% of bitcoin's hashing power behind it." << https://archive.is/41s4u
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why patent nonsense read by fewer people than are involved in writing it keeps somehow creeping into the conversation. but this sort of masochism of the intellectual is both ridiculous and overplayed already.
mircea_popescu: I had a TS clearance at Lockheed, and you have no idea what questions they asked. "Have you ever fucked a sheep?" << to which the only acceptable answer is, "does your mother count".
mod6: :D
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: was digging for traces of sanity in there
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: but easier to get uranium from the sea.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i confess, began reading this crud linked from bci's www, where i looked for block guts
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: but have, i think, eaten all that i can stomach.
phf: i use to like vice do's&don't's, they were mean and funny. i always thought vice was magazine version of the whole terry richardson, merlin bronques "glam trash" photography, but that was still cool in 2004-2006. i guess it would make sense that they would be faux edgy tech articles, no better or worse then any other online rag, but i can't get over the image of hipsters on heroin writing that shit
assbot: patch.git - GNU patch ... ( http://bit.ly/1PDTGqy )
trinque: danielpbarron: glad it worked out for ya
trinque: this weekend I'm going to put together a rudimentary site for trinque.org and gather a few of the tools I've built there
trinque: that script for example could do with an operator's manual; it's less a cake and more a kitchen
trinque: I've changed it since to dump out a working musl system
trinque: and I think I'll continue to just make all the decisions rather than offer options, and then describe how one might proceed from there on their own, if they so desire
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29684 @ 0.000691 = 20.5116 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: trinque: spiffy
assbot: RTL-SDR Tutorial: Analyzing GSM with Airprobe/GR-GSM and Wireshark - rtl-sdr.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1PDWV1h )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: 'Slender Man' Stabbing: Not Guilty Pleas Entered for Teens - ABC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lpxy4p )
trinque: ideas, man... they're powerful
trinque: ah it was Something Awful
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16700 @ 0.00069469 = 11.6013 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: MWRC 2011 - Fascism and Faux-pen Source - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UYf38X )
danielpbarron: mod6, http://danielpbarron.com/v0.5.4-TEST1.txt << you want I should run this one rather than the result of my rotor_quest?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21250 @ 0.00070162 = 14.9094 BTC [+]
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247400 <<< the guy who founded it (gavin mccines) got shoved out by the sjw who now operate it
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 18:46:15; phf: i use to like vice do's&don't's, they were mean and funny. i always thought vice was magazine version of the whole terry richardson, merlin bronques "glam trash" photography, but that was still cool in 2004-2006. i guess it would make sense that they would be faux edgy tech articles, no better or worse then any other online rag, but i can't get over the image of hipsters on heroin writing that shit
assbot: GST to be applied to more products, services sold by vendors into Australia from July 1, 2017 - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ... ( http://bit.ly/1UYjmRu )
jurov: same as eu vat clusterfuck
cazalla: retail is rightfully dying here, so i guess they think this will shore up the taxes they're losing from that sector.. i am more curious to find out if it'll be applied to steam games and in-game purchases
trinque: how do we increase our national wealth?
cazalla: "We are going to have taxation officials travel around the world visiting these companies asking them to register for GST purposes," federal Treasurer Joe Hockey said.
trinque: by slowing down all economic activity, of course!
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mod6, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al: here is an experiment: change ' print $0 " " o ' in vdiff.sh to ' print $1 " " $2 " " o '. this results in timestamp amputation. the patches work fine, except that gnupatch is no longer aware of preexisting files and will happily create the same file twice, if so run, glomming on top of itself.
ascii_field: but the resulting vpatches work, when applied with conventional gnupatch
ascii_field: for both from-vacuum creation of files (as in 'genesis') and the later patches.
thestringpuller: danielpbarron has a computer named naomi
ascii_field: also i recommend changing the last line of the script to LC_ALL=C ./vdiff.sh a b > genesis.vpatch
ascii_field: the result of these two changes should be BITWISE IDENTICAL GENESIS FOR ALL
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: if folks are happy with this result, i will re-create and sign the entire shebang tomorrow.
assbot: Deleting your browser history could land you in prison ... ( http://bit.ly/1UYliK1 )
ascii_field: 'The absence of evidence shouldn’t be viewed as proof of guilt, but tell that to the U.S. federal court—where Khairullozhon Matanov received a 30-month sentence in mid-June, in part for deleting his browser history. Though he wasn’t an accomplice in the Boston bombing, the FBI charged that the friend of the Tsarnaev brothers with obstructing justice by destroying evidence in the case. That evidence inc
ascii_field: ludes now-deleted entries in his browser history, along with certain videos.
ascii_field: Matanov isn’t the first person to be sentenced under such circumstances.'
trinque: and furthermore
trinque: "Under the law, people are required to preserve any evidence they knowingly believe could be used in future investigations, even if no such investigation has been launched."
trinque: presumably any piece of information can be used in any imaginary investigation of the future
trinque: so we go from the 5th amendment directly to "you must investigate yourself on behalf of the all powerful state"
ascii_field: the one law that nobody ever cancelled is 'not caught, not thief'
ascii_field: poor schmuck failed to destroy the evidence of destroying the evidence..
hdbuck: question why would usg need our browzer history via our computer since they already have it all via google
trinque: coke machine indeed.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2014 18:48:15; asciilifeform: this is why i simply don't get people who continue to think of their relationship with the u.s. court system in legal, rather than military, terms.
hdbuck: hello btw
trinque: hdbuck: good afternoon
trinque: pete_dushenski: and to you as well
trinque: ascii_field: it is abundantly clear to anyone thinking that this is a runaway bureaucratic process with no clear intentions/goals/etc, just *must feed*
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: i'm migrating my blog to wordpress
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes and how is the lovely lady v these days ? staying active i trust ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: i hate it
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller worse than tmmlr ?
ascii_field: trinque: it is in the initial stage, of cementing the precedent, via jailing an already unpopular fella
trinque: which is why today's cock-tease of a market slump does me no good. come on baby, lets have the full rip
thestringpuller: no better than tumblr. i just don't like making themes
thestringpuller: i also bought thestringpuller.com
thestringpuller: so as soon as I figure out the wp thing, i'll have a dedicated blog
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller who are you hosting with ?
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: AWS
thestringpuller: courtesy of jurov lol
thestringpuller: well i'm paying him but still. credit where credit due.
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 03:25:47; asciilifeform: iirc hanbot also had the out-of-order thing with genesis
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 16:56:49; ascii_field: and is our latest discovery that 'diff' is UNFATHOMABLY retarded ?!
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 01:22:45; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: try this on for size:
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 20:57:40; ascii_field: mod6, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al: here is an experiment: change ' print $0 " " o ' in vdiff.sh to ' print $1 " " $2 " " o '. this results in timestamp amputation. the patches work fine, except that gnupatch is no longer aware of preexisting files and will happily create the same file twice, if so run, glomming on top of itself.
ascii_field: mod6, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al: for extra lulz, here is a vdiff of the change, taken using the new vdiff, of vdiff.sh ! >>>>> http://dpaste.com/10CMS6H
assbot: dpaste: 10CMS6H ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqAcEV )
mod6: !up ascii_field
mod6: I can say that your change to vdiff.sh `diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{s="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null " | getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print $1 " " $2 " " o} !m { print $0 }'` certainly removes the timestamps from the output hashes.
mod6: err, output diff
ascii_field: now, fire the diff
ascii_field: should work as before.
ascii_field: just be sure not to do it twice.
mod6: and try this without LC_ALL=C ?
ascii_field: with!!
ascii_field: or you'll get ubuntud
mod6: yup, ok. and when I have my own genesis.vdiff, should compare with `diff -u` to the one you posted in your original email? or compare with vdiff?
mod6: ok
ascii_field: ~and~ original
ascii_field: (which won't match because it has timestamps, but ~order~ will match)
ascii_field: now make an empty space and fire the diff
mircea_popescu: thin priviledge is hanging out with friends, pointing out that i'd be more sensible to not give citizenship to children of fat people than to children of illegal immingrants, and not offending anyone.
ascii_field: then compare result with 'chicken'
mod6: err, so, use my newly created genesis.vdiff, apply to pulled original v0.5.3 ?
ascii_field: nononon
ascii_field: to EMPTY dir
ascii_field: genesis pulls 'chicken' out of ~air~
mircea_popescu: mod6 the entire idea is it creates it de novo
mod6: ah!
ascii_field thought this was obvious from the recipe!
mod6: im dumb
mircea_popescu: stop thinking stuff is obvious!
mircea_popescu: obvious is an offensive term and it triggers people!
mod6: haha.
pete_dushenski: really, if this wasn't obvious to mod6, ppl like hanbot and i have no chance
mod6: it worked ascii_field
ascii_field: congrats mod6 !
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: do try the new recipe
mod6: thanks :]
mod6: just ran the `patch -p1 < genesis.vpatch` in an empty dir, and then volla, bitcoin source exists
ascii_field: ^ as it should.
pete_dushenski: ascii_field as it happens, i've been doing just that.
mircea_popescu: i kept meaning to do a statement explaining the major importance of that thing but i didn't really find my words with the deed.
mircea_popescu: ima try to a signing statement once i put it to the ml
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, who wants to hold my retarded hand while i do that again ? i forget, what do i do, send an email with the plaintext as body and the detached sigfile as attachment ?
jurov: you mean to btc-dev?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: to use jurov's thing, you need 3 things: a clearsigned readme (1st attachment)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the actual patch (optional, if the message concerns a patch) - 2nd attach
mod6: <+pete_dushenski> really, if this wasn't obvious to mod6, ppl like hanbot and i have no chance << this probably should have been obvious to me. but sometimes, hard to see the forest through all of the trees. i've been looking at the compare diff a lot lately, and forgot that /all/ is contained in the genesis.diff.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: third, if the second exists - a detached .sig for it
mod6: *genesis.vdiff
pete_dushenski: mod6 aha. so there's hope for us yet !
mod6: ofc!
mod6: *genesis.vpatch
mod6: wth is wrong with me this afternoon.
mod6: hanbot is testing out my i686 changes for buildroot/rotor.sh - even got a script for it. so that's p-cool.
mircea_popescu: and the actual email body - empty ?
jurov: mircea_popescu: only clearsigned text is mandatory, there can be none or any number of further attachments(not necessarily only patches), each with detached attachment.name.ext.sig
mircea_popescu: jurov cool, ima try this and bitch more if i can find a way to.
jurov: if your email client is known not to mutilate text, put clearsigned text into the body instead of first attachemnt
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the importance of the thing i intended, roughly, is that ~everything is either a vdiff or a sig~
ascii_field: in 'v'
jurov: otherwise, left body empty
danielpbarron: i noticed today that you don't need to rename the files in order for them to verify; you can sha1sum and gpg --verify the downloaded attachments as they come, and go straight to extracting the tar afterwards
ascii_field: both vdiffs and sigs (the former by virtue of having one or more of the latter matching) are immediately attributable to an l1 pubkey
ascii_field: and, for the first time ever in history of versionatrons, you can take a tree of unknown constitution and determine what patch set it corresponds to (if any)
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i'd like to remind the esteemed readership, especially those people who would like to make their non-stem degrees useful to the future of this world, that http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/ is still open. a significant amout of work has already been put in, help me reward it by completing the task.
assbot: So who's running the Courts circus ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqCG6a )
punkman: ascii_field: why L1? doesn't ml use L2?
ascii_field: punkman: perhaps it does? but iirc the only contributors thus far live in l1
jurov: yes it uses l2
mircea_popescu: iirc it accepts l2 but no one but l1 used it yet
punkman: phf is L2
danielpbarron: PinkPosixPXE would be the exception to that l1 only theory
ascii_field notices that he has been using 'vdiff' and 'vpatch' interchangeably. this is not really an error.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236853 << did nobody mention Rocko's Modern Life in this thread? That was one of my favorites growing up
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 05:04:30; pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i'm taking notes here on cartoonz for kidz, so keep 'em comin.
pete_dushenski: haha mine too!
pete_dushenski hums the theme song to himself
danielpbarron: and I "wasn't allowed" to watch ren and stimpy (had to sneak it)
ascii_field: btw here's another thing to add to the 'gpg is mega-retarded' list: gpg sig does not contain a sig of self !!
ascii_field: so it is quite impossible to verify that it is valid per se, without having the payload
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron the only show i wasn't allowed to watch was wwf wrestling
pete_dushenski: lest i try to piledrive my younger brother into the concrete sidewalk or something
ascii_field: (i could explain why one may wish to do this, but will leave it as an exercise)
trinque: danielpbarron: heh me too re: ren & stimpy
trinque: ascii_field: maybe in the case where the payload was munged in regards to whitespace or the like ?
jurov: sailor moon
jurov: jkjk
ascii_field: trinque: sometimes one wishes to eat the sig prior to the payload
ascii_field: say, a public www where these can be dropped in a hopper
punkman: ascii_field: well you can sign the detached sig if you please
trinque: ah yep.
ascii_field: 'take any sig and then see' creates a ddos vector
ascii_field: punkman: whereas 'sign the sig' again means that you can't take a single file at a time.
trinque: I mean were www sane it would work precisely that way
jurov: yes, if petabyte payload
ascii_field: or this
trinque: sig comes over as part of header, then body
ascii_field: header ?!!#$$
punkman: ascii_field: wrong
punkman: --armor --sign
ascii_field: punkman: didja miss all the 'clearsigning is retardedly broken' threads ?
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, why not? you send me a GET, I first tell ya how many bytes to expect, then signature, then body?
punkman: not clearsign, --sign
jurov: punkman and how does that help with verifying the sig as soon as posible?
punkman: you --sign --armor the detached sig :P
trinque: what I mean by header is perhaps no more than: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
trinque: just put the sig immediately following
trinque: with maybe the hash used and byte length preceding, actually
ascii_field: what if i don't want to hear so much as one byte if sig isn't from l1 ?
ascii_field: (beyond the sig)
trinque: you must at least know what hash to try, yeah?
trinque: and then yes, perhaps the sig validates that information
trinque: makes total sense
trinque: I mean in the case of the hash, implicitly so
trinque: or barring that seems like one must simply be chosen and that's that
ascii_field: thing is, read rfc2440
ascii_field: pgp sig doesn't carry the whole hash.
ascii_field: only the lowest order 16 bits of it.
ascii_field: (for fast rejection of entirely off sig)
ascii_field: who the FUCK thought that this was sane.
punkman: demo: this contains a signed detached sig for asciilifeform's genesis.vpatch: http://dpaste.com/18YW8WF
assbot: dpaste: 18YW8WF ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqDQhY )
trinque: "Good" "Enough" (TM)
ascii_field: i mean, i can maybe see a case where this is strategically necessary
ascii_field: but as sop ?
trinque: I think it's becoming clear that as mentioned already, none of this shit was ever used in battle.
trinque: not even lowly diff
ascii_field: everybody with a unix box lives & dies by 'diff'
ascii_field: (even if he doesn't know it)
trinque: https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3522/3239361178_66b92e397b_b.jpg << I suppose a battlefield given some artistic license, but..
trinque: who will lose his job (or life) if diff fails to work?
jurov: dunno if it's right question
trinque: jurov: what would be?
trinque: I don't see anyone on earth who owns diff
jurov: i can imagine someone fearing their job if diff isn't locale-aware
trinque: I was about to discuss that aspect; it's not that no one cares about diff; it's that everyone has conflicting reasons for caring
ascii_field: trinque: can't build so much as a kernel w/out 'diff'
trinque: and nothing focuses them coherently
trinque: so every single piece of open source is compromized to the degree it was ever used at all
trinque: *compromised
mircea_popescu: jurov subject ? leave empty ?
ascii_field: it needs a subject, if only for reference
jurov: it is shown in archives, so yes
mircea_popescu: ok, sent it. do i wait for it to show ?
assbot: [BTC-dev] V-genesis signed, with comment ... ( http://bit.ly/1I0DysO )
phf: amusingly i tried looking for plan9's diff for some insight. they use a ported gnu version.
ascii_field: (these really oughta be scoopbotted)
mircea_popescu: it's really painless, once one's clear on the process.
ascii_field glad that mircea_popescu liked the concept, but noticed that he signed the old patch
ascii_field: the one with timestamps
ascii_field: we'll need to do this again. starting with me, optionally
ascii_field: can be any of you
ascii_field: just re-create the genesis by the new recipe
ascii_field: and sign
ascii_field: no reason to wait for me
mircea_popescu: yeah, mod you have teh honor.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 'For the first time in the century or so of history of this particular human endeavour, text was deliberately structured with due consideration given not only to its meaning, but also to its source, and to its context. Prior attempts at structuring software, at first consisting of a naive approach focused on meaning only, over time added a half-hearted consideration of context, very unequally and rather haphazardly. The
ascii_field: change the V-genesis introduced is exactly like the move from understanding and controlling movement in terms of mass and somewhat velocity, such as it occurs in the mind of a monkey throwing rocks, to understanding and controlling movement in terms of mass, impulse and energy, such as it occurs in the launching of satellites. The proposition that there is still room for improvement in the endless march of human thought,
ascii_field: on this topic as on any other, is absolutely indubitable. The proposition that the sum total of what came before can be compared with this particular advance is strictly ridiculous.' << mega-summary, quoted here for logz readers
punkman: genesis_2cba721ced8108cf65ab7d045081237ecda4602a_2cba721ced8108cf65ab7d045081237ecda4602a.vpatch << eh
mircea_popescu: more mangling ?!
mircea_popescu: the files i sent over definitely only had it once.
ascii_field: ;;later tell jurov can we PLEASE dispense with the mutilated filenames ?!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ps, i'm cracking a champagne bottle.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> yeah, mod you have teh honor. << thanks. I've confirmed that what I get from genesis.vpatch out of thin air is the same manifest as `bitcoin-0.5.3-no-crud.sha256.manifest`.
jurov: :/ yes i'm on it
mod6: This make sense?
ascii_field: congrats mod6
pete_dushenski: hearn spills guts : "i would actually like to see less consensus in bitcoin development and more authoritarianism"
mircea_popescu: yes it is what'd be expected mod6
ascii_field: now post the output, sign
assbot: CoinScrum: QA with Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqF4tF )
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski he's more then welcome to read the logs.
mod6: Alright, lemme fireup the ole gpg-o-matic.
ascii_field: mod6: from here on, everyone who carries out a vdiff on the same inputs shall get the same output.
mircea_popescu: if what he truly means is he wants to SEE it.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu heh. he probably does when he can't sleep at night
ascii_field: unless we discover yet another 'locale'-like idiocy, in which case it will go on my chopping block
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247569 <<< same deal here and same deal with astroboy, had to sneak that one yet tmnt was ok for some reason
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 22:01:13; danielpbarron: and I "wasn't allowed" to watch ren and stimpy (had to sneak it)
assbot: Blackout | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqFksx )
cazalla: cop a flogging for having x-men trading cards but smashing windows in construction sites got a pass, i swear my old man liked to keep us walking around on egg shells
pete_dushenski: automated scooping, what's that ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247400 < yeah well, the us altogether was to some degree still cool in early 2000s.
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 18:46:15; phf: i use to like vice do's&don't's, they were mean and funny. i always thought vice was magazine version of the whole terry richardson, merlin bronques "glam trash" photography, but that was still cool in 2004-2006. i guess it would make sense that they would be faux edgy tech articles, no better or worse then any other online rag, but i can't get over the image of hipsters on heroin writing that shit
mircea_popescu: water under the bridge by now
assbot: [BTC-dev] V-genesis signed, with comment ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqGvYY )
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 19:01:28; trinque: and I think I'll continue to just make all the decisions rather than offer options, and then describe how one might proceed from there on their own, if they so desire
mircea_popescu: To deploy this vpatch file
mircea_popescu: from ~thin air~ do the following:
mircea_popescu: patch -p1 < genesis.vpatch
mircea_popescu: that sounds so great in its laaconism.
mircea_popescu: "A Wisconsin court today entered not guilty pleas on behalf of the two teen defendants in the "Slender Man" stabbing case after their lawyers declined to do so."
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is this bullshit.
mircea_popescu: since when the fuck do defense lawyers have agency in court.
mircea_popescu: did the schmucks get disbarred ?
mircea_popescu: oh never mind, my bad. they held silence in protest over jurisdiction.
mircea_popescu: i take it back.
mircea_popescu: fucking abcnews. the defense didn't "decline to do so". the defense DECLINED TO RECOGNISE THE COURT!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247431 << derp can save the gas money. S.MG is never collecting any tax for anyone, including teh republic.
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 20:57:09; cazalla: "We are going to have taxation officials travel around the world visiting these companies asking them to register for GST purposes," federal Treasurer Joe Hockey said.
mats: asciilifeform: neat
mircea_popescu: lol buttcoin engaging danielpbarron over gpg etc was pretty lulzy to read.
mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated.
mircea_popescu: The rest of us who actually make shit happen in the front lines of consensus back on planet earth will continue to be unaffected by your efforts apart from their modest value as chuckle fuel over beers and sushi."
mircea_popescu: apparently someone drinks beer with sushi.
punkman: what's wrong with that
mircea_popescu: what's next, coffee and blue cheese ?
mircea_popescu: toothpaste and lobster, why not, i would like some veal in sauce chantilly and a dollop of cream on my cigar.
mats: brutal week for fiat markets
mats: DJIA down ~500 points
assbot: No End in Sight for Oil Glut - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmWEui )
assbot: Louis de Funès - Les grandes vacances (1967) - English taste - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmWFhJ )
mircea_popescu: mats obama's only actual initiative. fucked in the ass.
mircea_popescu: (ps "c'est etonnant" is no good, in french. "delicious" is worse.)
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 22:04:36; jurov: sailor moon
jurov: phew
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 22:06:28; ascii_field: punkman: didja miss all the 'clearsigning is retardedly broken' threads ?
jurov: mostly cuz it was on rtl2 when we had tv allowed
mircea_popescu: oh, pronz ?
jurov: and least derpy of them
punkman: clearsigning mostly works. the problem is everything else the clearsigned message will pass through.
punkman: the worst thing off the top of my head is the lack of a full fingerprint in signed message
assbot: All of the Nopes: "There is no such thing as the crime of 'rape'" and that's arguably not the worst part : againstmensrights ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmXd7o )
mircea_popescu: and they all stick on the same thing, too.
mircea_popescu: dear reddit : have more sex. seriously, it halps.
punkman: also, if have some automated system that works with gpg messages and you aren't running one of the latest 1.* version, messages can be crafted that will DoS/hang your system
punkman: inb4 mp's custom gpg for mpex?
mircea_popescu: gpg as-is is at best a duct tape solution.
punkman: I'd say shitshow
mircea_popescu: or that.
punkman: "oh yeah let's be compatible to PGP 4, because that matters"
assbot: Index of /scm ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmXtTM )
punkman: poor ahmed
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000152.html << congrats mod6 on signing the ~correct~ genesis
assbot: [BTC-dev] V-genesis signed, with comment ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqGvYY )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247726 << it's concept-broken, not implementation-broken
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 23:37:54; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247592 << it must be made to work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the concept of me being able to read the singed thing with my eyes is not broken.
mircea_popescu: or else computing's a pointless activity.
asciilifeform: can read detach-signed document.
mircea_popescu is still working through this mental mire.
mircea_popescu: im noit yet persuaded that's good enough.
asciilifeform: the only way to sign without imposing structure on the matter signed, is detach.
mircea_popescu: if the signed thing is not a thing, or if the signed thing is not available fgor my eyes, no problem has in fact been solved.
asciilifeform: i spoke of this earlier today;
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31350 @ 0.00068843 = 21.5823 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: where a pgp signature is so retardedly structured that it cannot be verified at all without the original matter
asciilifeform: (it lacks the complete hash!)
asciilifeform: incidentally there is an implication of this, which ought to be obvious
asciilifeform: and terrifying.
mircea_popescu: deep restructuring of the pgp implementation is required anyway.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247703 << court did not impose peine forte et dure ?! that's how it used to work..
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 23:09:56; mircea_popescu: fucking abcnews. the defense didn't "decline to do so". the defense DECLINED TO RECOGNISE THE COURT!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47150 @ 0.00066787 = 31.4901 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: 1. full rsa. 2. proper signature encapsulation. 3. sane structuring of the keys. 4. etfc.
asciilifeform: since nobody said it...
asciilifeform: rfc4480 sayeth, '5.2.3. Version 4 Signature Packet Format.... [buncha crud snipped] ... Two-octet field holding the left 16 bits of the signed hash value. One or more multiprecision integers comprising the signature. ...'
asciilifeform: obvious yet?
asciilifeform: or do i have to draw the picture here.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck specs like this for crying out loud
asciilifeform: WE'VE BEEN SIGNING 16-BIT HASHES
mircea_popescu: "two octet"
asciilifeform: motherfuckers.
mircea_popescu: because why, because youyr mother had two abortions ?
asciilifeform: in effect.
asciilifeform: sit and think about this for a minute.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the LEFT 16 bits ?
mircea_popescu: omfg this whole thing is useless.
asciilifeform brainmelt
mircea_popescu: bwahahahaah
mircea_popescu: no, see, reddit was right
mircea_popescu: we're fucking idiots over here :D
mircea_popescu: i guess the next top priority in making cardano which was making bitcoin which was making vdiff is now making gpg.
asciilifeform: i will wait for one of you lot to point out where i somehow am mistaken.
asciilifeform: but yes, you can guess how i arrived at this tidbit.
mircea_popescu off to read rfc4480 for the expecterd comedic value
asciilifeform: i've been walking around with a bound hardcopy of that thing for most of a year
asciilifeform: slowly scribbling on it, laying out out
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess by being spurred by my recent statement and going into a "let's verify this" mode ?
asciilifeform: in my head, with pencil
asciilifeform: actually coincident
mircea_popescu: 5.2.3. Version 4 Signature Packet Format
punkman: "The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures."
mircea_popescu: The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures.
punkman: asciilifeform: so... no, it's not THAT bad.
mircea_popescu: it is not THAT bad
mircea_popescu: ahaha mkay.
mircea_popescu: it is still not how i'd do it.
mircea_popescu expects to live in a world where everything is done EXACTLY as he would do it. failure of perceptible world to conform to this expectation is a crime, more serious than any other, and to be punished by destruction.
mircea_popescu: steal, fine. suck at stealing -> go die in a fire.
mircea_popescu: competent thieves should be convicted to jail. incompetent thieves should be broken apart with a small hammer.
asciilifeform: punkman: think.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: think.
mats: Fun fact: the first Minuteman missiles ran off a hard disk as the only available memory. Reads/writes/jumps had to be scheduled to avoid pipeline stalling for a full rotation.
asciilifeform: mats: see also:
asciilifeform: !s minuteman
assbot: 14 results for 'minuteman' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=minuteman
mats: If subroutines were used, they were implemented by writing the return address to their end then jumping.
asciilifeform: mats: and this is still done in mechanical hdd design, see 'elevator' algo.
asciilifeform: punkman, mircea_popescu: can you think of any ~legit~ reason to store only 16 bits of the hash that was signed ?
asciilifeform: me neither.
mats: asciilifeform: I didn't know that. cool.
asciilifeform: but i can think of a pretty good illegitimate one.
mircea_popescu: but still, the situation is not equivalent to "singatures are trivially defeated in the field"
asciilifeform: not trivially, no.
mircea_popescu: me too, but nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: hence the comments i an i presume him, made.
asciilifeform: but can now formulate the equation.
punkman: you'll have to spell it out for me
asciilifeform retreats to the mathematical room
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's no question left that a usable extant pgp implementaton exists. this should be redone.
phf: asciilifeform: maybe hash size is variable where's they wanted to go with fixed size headers. so no matter size of hash you only store first two octets
mircea_popescu: phf so what does that help ?
punkman: phf, it is variable indeed
mircea_popescu: collision on 16 bits of sha512 is trivial.
punkman: and what does collision get you
mircea_popescu: nothinmg, but by this principle let;'s stick to md5/
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's just miserable product design.
phf: mircea_popescu: i ~assume~ the intent is to speed up failure
mircea_popescu: i do not wish to eat in the restaurant where they piss in the beer, irrespective of any other consideration.
mircea_popescu: phf people without wot presence may not have intent.
mircea_popescu: the intent is to rape and pillage, for all orcs, by virtue of being orcs.
phf: if the first two octets don't match you don't have to go through the rest of the signature verification process, since at that point you already know that the signature is invalid
mircea_popescu: and why two.
mircea_popescu: and why is it that all the phuctor bad sigs we see are two octet mirrors.
asciilifeform: fingerprint collision diddles, entirely other castle wall scaled by orcs
asciilifeform: (with some success, as i gather)
mircea_popescu: must be.
asciilifeform: 'The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures.'
mircea_popescu: ;;google "N-ai fost acolo s-auzi tot ce-am auzit. N-ai fost acolo sa vezi tot ce am vazut. N-ai fost acolo sa vezi tot ce am facut. N-ai fost acolo sa vezi prin tot ce am trecut."
gribble: Pânza de minciuni. | Scriu pentru ca nimeni nu asculta..: <https://bineledinrau.wordpress.com/>; Dan Necşa | Trăieşte, iubeşte, respectă, ai grijă, dar nu te ataşa!: <https://dannecsa.wordpress.com/>; La mormantul lui ARSENIE BOCA. Parintele a lasat cu limba de ...: <https://intamplarisavante.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/la-mormantul-lui-arsenie-boca-parintele-a-lasat-cu- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: derp google.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is thgat the most likely to be quoted snippet ?
punkman: plenty of success with that "Scallion was used to find collisions for every 32bit key id in the Web of Trust's strong set demonstrating how insecure 32bit key ids are."
assbot: Слова песни N-ai fost acolo, текст песни ... ( http://bit.ly/1NAUI7A )
asciilifeform: punkman: aha, old nyooz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite.
mircea_popescu: slova pesni = text pesni lol
punkman: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/tree/master/pgpv4 key collision for v4, scallion attack was for v3 I think
assbot: cooperpair/pgpv4 at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NAUUnm )
mircea_popescu: basically we're uncovering a decade old, very fragile rube goldberg machine
mircea_popescu: to subvert thew pgp i npractice.
mircea_popescu: hey hayden... you sucked lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43800 @ 0.00070518 = 30.8869 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: 'Most OpenPGP software use 64-bit keyids internally, and rely on 64-bit keyids present in issuer id packets.' < ahaha.
asciilifeform always, always regrets what he finds.
asciilifeform: this is likely why so few with the shovels
asciilifeform: nobody wants to see what is under that garden.
punkman: might as well repost this too, if you've never edited your gpg config, start here: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/blob/master/saneprefs/gpg.conf
assbot: cooperpair/gpg.conf at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KB5DZF )
punkman: "# Use a real encryption algorithm to protect the secret keyring, rather than CAST5." << relevant to certain folks that didn't mind posting their encrypted keyrings to keybase.io
mircea_popescu: "a" is bullshit.
mircea_popescu: what do we say, twofish ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: weren't you the one with the 'why do we need block cipher at all' concept ?
mircea_popescu: yes. but meanwhile.
mircea_popescu: in principle, i will say "block cipher" is exactly, EXACTLY, provably as retarded as "reusable otp via prng".,
asciilifeform: while we're at it, copying in from my handwritten 'pgp is retarded' notebook,
asciilifeform: 'why the fuck is there no provision for multilayer use of multiple blockciphersystems'
mircea_popescu: because that doesn't help anything.
asciilifeform: it helps in precisely the same way as multiple parachutes
mircea_popescu: it helps in precisely the same way as multiple surgical interventions.
mircea_popescu: if one didn't help, ten won't eiother.
asciilifeform: (knowing weak keys in aes does not break the message if under it is, e.g., twofish, with DISTINCT KEY)
mircea_popescu: fuck or get off the woman.
asciilifeform: tards use same key, yes
asciilifeform: (for separate layers)
mircea_popescu: no dude, spare me. either this problem is solved or woirked on.
mircea_popescu: chaining is for the brothel.
asciilifeform: block cipher gets 'solved' no more than steel girders can be 'solved.'
asciilifeform: can make thicker, or thinner
phf: could it also increases known-plaintext attack possibilities?
asciilifeform: but not infinitely rigid.
mircea_popescu: phf it necessarily would.
mircea_popescu: and other issues.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform either you make me an infinitely rigid girder or i don;'t want anything to do with you.
asciilifeform: phf, mircea_popescu: how, if the layers use distinct keys, each en-rsa'd separately ?
mircea_popescu: it's computing for a reason. THIS is the reason.
asciilifeform reminds mircea_popescu that factoring has not been proven np-hard much less np-complete
asciilifeform: hence we have no mega-magicalgirder.
asciilifeform: even in rsa.
asciilifeform has searched for such a girder for quite some time.
asciilifeform: the closest thing we have is the vernam pad.
mircea_popescu: that's actually weaker than rsa in practice.
asciilifeform: (otp, or however it is called in each of our kindergarten textbooks.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: practice, fortunately, is not hard to fix.
asciilifeform: use a bit once, then blow the antifuse it lived in.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do not ask me "how". this question is pointedly forbidden in this context.
asciilifeform: problem solved.
asciilifeform: call it, if you like, 'read-once' ram.
phf: should start mailing each other cloned harddrives with random bits on them
asciilifeform: unless operator is a moron, and uses it other than as prescribed, device is a true otp.
asciilifeform: phf: mailing, wtf
asciilifeform: why not mail straight to hitler.
asciilifeform: to complete this story, i will add a diode on each antifuse and a collective rail to blow'em all
asciilifeform: plugged into the 'grenade pin' of course.
asciilifeform: !s antifuse
assbot: 26 results for 'antifuse' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=antifuse
phf: conversation really an excuse for asciilifeform to build a subversive analogue circuit
mircea_popescu: forget all that already.
asciilifeform: otp has precisely three weaknesses even in principle: generation of key (solved by civilized rng); reuse of key (solved by erasing each bit immediately after it is used in a xor); capture of key by enemy (in common with any other cipher! and solved with grenade pin)
asciilifeform: that it is not aesthetically pleasing is not a weakness.
punkman: and distribution of key?
phf: (that's the last point in asciilifeform's list)
asciilifeform: not a weakness. generated by two units connected together in sealed, grounded copper container.
asciilifeform: then separated.
mircea_popescu: look, im not going to give back the major advantage of asym crypto keys just because nsa sponsored implementation and useful rms-ian idiots made a mess of things.
asciilifeform: this is the 'infinitely rigid girder.' in practice, all girders meaningfully differing from this one have provably finite rigidity.
mircea_popescu: i might as well go back to woodstove heating.
asciilifeform: nobody said 'go back to latrine', aha.
asciilifeform: but it is worth understanding what the cost of 'infinitely rigid girder' is.
mircea_popescu: measurable my foot.
mircea_popescu: measure rsa rigidity.
asciilifeform: could, if could prove np-hard.
asciilifeform: (and would be picking up fields medal or whatever remaining civilized equivalent is)
mircea_popescu: course you said provable. i'll take that to. prove.,
mircea_popescu: no you wouldn't.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is of course right. snowdenball's chance in hell
mircea_popescu: "it was already announced by some researches without a name in a paper without a back copy"
asciilifeform: aha, this.
asciilifeform: spiffy bunker
asciilifeform: to round off the thread, imho the 'holy grail' of asymmetric crypto is to demonstrate ~provably measurable strength~ - that is, prove np-completeness of inverting the transform.
asciilifeform: while also proving that none of the 'practical' aspects of employing the transform, leak key.
asciilifeform: (most academitards neglect the second part!)
mircea_popescu: the holy grail is this situation where nothing's demonstrated at all.
asciilifeform: how;s that work
mircea_popescu: the field of unknown unknowns always favours the people against the state.
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu remember what means 'np-complete' ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8755 @ 0.00070779 = 6.1967 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: if anyone had the proof, i'd ask them to not publish it, for that matter.
asciilifeform 's throat is not big enough for this pill
asciilifeform: hitler rediscovers the proof. then what
mircea_popescu: it is ACTUALLY preferable for teh republic that whether rsa is or is not np-complete is not known.
mircea_popescu: then nothing.
mircea_popescu: hitler had reports re the fucking wtc bombings on his own desk.
asciilifeform: how does this beat 'proven np-complete and the lowliest amoebic scum knows' ?
mircea_popescu: how does "not clear what bitcoin is" beat "bitcoin is IT" ?
mircea_popescu: i lived my entire life cloaked in a shadow of "nobody saw him coming". i like it.
asciilifeform: is the idea that enemy wastes resources on cryptoanalytic derp vs setting up coke machine dungeon ?
mircea_popescu: not even.
asciilifeform: see, i could even agree re: ~provably unknowable~ (i.e. godelian) unknowns. if these could be had. but 'unknown uknowns' inescapably shed the first 'unknown'
asciilifeform: i would like an asymmetric transform whose complexity were provably unknowable. that would be spiffy.
mircea_popescu: heh. no they don't.
mircea_popescu: what, you think strella is a directional weapon ?
asciilifeform: can't rule out that even 20 yrs ago hitler knew that factoring is np-complete.
asciilifeform: based on available evidence.
mircea_popescu: the less you can rule out, the easier it gets for me.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24945 @ 0.0007078 = 17.6561 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: how does it help anybody (other than hitler), including mircea_popescu, when hitler knows for certain, but everybody else is left to mathematicize fruitlessly (or, worse, work on faith)
mircea_popescu: your notion that hitler's ahead of the curve is spurious.
mircea_popescu: never, inb the entire history of reichs, was this the case. not once.
asciilifeform: recall who had rsa transform in 1976 ?
asciilifeform: or what, was disinfo ?
asciilifeform did not watch mr cocks discover it, so cannot say that it is a fact
asciilifeform: clifford cocks.
mircea_popescu: define "had".
mircea_popescu: that dumbfuck rice "had" the airplane thing, too.
asciilifeform: no one 'had' in the modern sense until the cheap micro, sure.
asciilifeform: but for cryptoanalyst, it is actually not useless to 'have' a paper-and-pen unimplementable algo
mircea_popescu: no. that wasn't their problem.
asciilifeform: can begin to think of attack, without ever actually modularly exponentiating anything
mircea_popescu: pfff #2.
asciilifeform: ?#1, ?#2 ?
asciilifeform: what am i missing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 209273 @ 0.00066783 = 139.7588 BTC [-] {8}
asciilifeform: either the legend of mr cocks is disinfo (i cannot rule this out at all) or usg had rsa before rivest, shamir, adelman.
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood. but once i figure it out i'll make the computer do what you mean.
mircea_popescu: it "had" it. suppose there's madonna burried in your back yard
mircea_popescu: do you "Have" her ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75627 @ 0.00065566 = 49.5856 BTC [-] {5}
asciilifeform: so no 'have' until firing on the battlefield ?
mircea_popescu: no. not have until have.
mircea_popescu: you "have" a horse. your dad bought youy it, except you may not ride it. what "have" ?
mircea_popescu: only some may have. government's not on the list.
asciilifeform: what would a counterexample to hypothesis http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1247994 look like ?
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 01:11:30; mircea_popescu: never, inb the entire history of reichs, was this the case. not once.
phf: so for the curious it doesn't look like 1.4.19 uses the two-byte hash value anyway. it reads it from disk, it populates it during sign and it can write it to disk, but no actual logic done using it
phf: *anywhere rather
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like "fructidor"
phf: (grep for digest_start)
mircea_popescu: phf yeah it's not actually as bad as it seemed on the basis of the snippet. still crud.
asciilifeform: phf: am i catastrophically missing something, (i didn't sleep much), or is this an even greater clusterfuck than if the 16bit were used ?!!
mircea_popescu: "let's do things to things for reasonds"
asciilifeform: it would mean that an existential signature forgery is trivial
asciilifeform prepares vivisection table
phf: asciilifeform: i'm failing to see the clusterfuck part
phf: i'm mostly curious if my guess about the purpose of the field was correct, but no insight from gpg
phf: logic looks like "read a bunch of things", "hash data", "put relevant bits into an in memory copy of the header", "hash in memory copy", "compare"
asciilifeform: it isn't 'compare' though
phf: asciilifeform: ah, you caught my hand wave :>
asciilifeform: 'well, one could devise methods for signing long messages that don't involve hashing, such as splitting up the message into small segments, tie each segment together with an identifier and a segment sequence number, and sign each individually. However, hashing works so much easier that no one ever considers an alternative.' << quoted verbatim from shit-overflow
asciilifeform: for the record.
asciilifeform: because lulzy.
mircea_popescu: wtf is that
mircea_popescu: since when hash input size is a concern
asciilifeform: in the rfc?
asciilifeform: to know how many bytes to read ?
mircea_popescu: no in the quote.,
asciilifeform: he says 'long messages' on account of the impossibility of signing an integer longer than the public modulus
asciilifeform: using naked rsa.
asciilifeform: hence how hash came to be used in asymmetric signing
asciilifeform: and someone asked, 'but do we ~have~ to rely on hash'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00070727 = 14.4283 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: and quoted interlocutor answered, 'no but stfu'
asciilifeform: (but, how many folks would accept signatures that are 2x the length of the payload !)
mircea_popescu: actually. is there a 4096 bit hash function of any merit ?
asciilifeform: not as such.
mircea_popescu: make the damned thing match throughout. bapg = 4096 rsa, 4096 hash, etc.
asciilifeform: gotta leave some room for 'pad'
asciilifeform: (that is, permutation of the item to be signed)
mircea_popescu: hash is also the pad
asciilifeform: 'pad' is a bit of a misnomer in the parlance
asciilifeform: !s rsa padding
assbot: 1 results for 'rsa padding' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rsa+padding
mircea_popescu: no. rsa encryption = a succession of individually encrypted blocks.
asciilifeform: easily.
mircea_popescu: so it's not actually a concern
mircea_popescu: i wasn't at any point contemplating "rsa encryption = rsa run once over the message herp"
mircea_popescu: (and i maintain that in all context hybrid encryption is retarde dwithout exception. either fuck or get off the woman.)
asciilifeform: the purpose of 'padding' is to a) never have transform of known input deterministically give same output b) prevent arbitrarily flipped bits of ciphertext from yielding a valid (attempt to eat) message
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.00070787 = 1.4865 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: yes. but none of these actually requires a hybrid scheme
asciilifeform: 'course not.
asciilifeform: just pointing out that you can't stuff n bits of payload into signature (or encipherment) with modulus length n.
asciilifeform: in practice, on account of a+b - fewer.
asciilifeform: (depending on what method of 'padding' - fucking hate this name! - is used)
mircea_popescu: and if youy for some incomprehensible reason MUST use a hybrid scheme, use the following : 1. generate random 4096 hash ; 2. cut your message up into N chunks of size up to 2048 ; 3. xor the chunks with 1; encrypt each chunk via rsa
asciilifeform: btw i am still trying to figure out why the existing 'padding' algos are so asininely complex
asciilifeform: then again, i'm not winning any prizes for knowing the answer to this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35050 @ 0.00070835 = 24.8277 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform has been living with all of this, in today's thread, and more, while working on the inevitable ada bignumtron and rsatron.
asciilifeform: for use in a certain little device, yes.
asciilifeform: but does ~everything~ have to break into dust in my hands.
asciilifeform: srsly, fucking 'diff'.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12132 @ 0.0007095 = 8.6077 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;google "pentru ca esti o vita spastica si te uraste soarta"
gribble: No matches found.
asciilifeform: approximately.
assbot: RObotzi.S02.Ep22.Pornache - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MDMR8r )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 if you regenerate the 'orchestra' patches with new vdiff, i will sign'em. otherwise might have to wait a while
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: or hanbot, or mircea_popescu, et al
asciilifeform: at this point anybody can turn the handle
phf: (so it's not compare. they run a digest on payload while reading (or separately if detached), then they run digest on own reconstruction of header, then they finalize the digest and do sig verification of provided signature against the digest that they calculated)
mircea_popescu: it could be more complicated.
phf: incidentally after bitcoind gnupg source is pleasure to read
asciilifeform: phf: naturally, no cppism
mircea_popescu: or graffiti in foreign languages
asciilifeform: though i would disagree re: 'pleasure'
asciilifeform: just a duller pain
asciilifeform: reading c is more like being beaten with telephone books, vs cpp's bicycle chains
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00070727 = 13.2967 BTC [-]
phf: one can buy "PGP Source Code and Internals." from amazon for $289
asciilifeform: phf: zimmerman ?
asciilifeform: realize that this has nothing at all to do with modern gpg...
phf: yes, trying to see what he was doing with signatures there
phf: oh? pre-standard?
asciilifeform: this item was published by mit press to get around clinton's export laws
phf: aah
asciilifeform: and famously subject of a court proceeding
phf: also '95 vs '98
asciilifeform: the book came with instructions re: how to ocr the thing back, and build!
asciilifeform: i thought this was well-known.
assbot: Zimmermann declaration ... ( http://bit.ly/1PESq6m )
asciilifeform: http://www.openresource.com/news/P/PGPSCI.shtml << notice how mit's site no longer contains it.
assbot: PGP Source Code ... ... ( http://bit.ly/1PEStiy )
phf: of course
phf: surprisingly hard to get a copy
asciilifeform: it is not a secret, i think, that i am working on a somewhat similar book.
asciilifeform: two, in fact.
phf: oh? i missed that, i think that's before i started to read closely
asciilifeform off for a spell, to play with pet.
phf: i actually forgot that you were working on gnupg source for cardano
thestringpuller: dunno if asciilifeform is talking about human female, or some random puppy he has.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42108 @ 0.00069951 = 29.455 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform only has 1 pet
mod6: asciilifeform: ... if you regenerate the 'orchestra' patches with new vdiff, i will sign'em. otherwise might have to wait a while << hey, no problem. I'll start in on this sometime tomorrow probably.
asciilifeform: mod6: neat
mod6: thanks for all your work on V, ascii
asciilifeform: 'spreading works, eating - not yet'
mod6: and yah, signing on 16 bits (2 bytes) of hashs is retarded
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00065325 = 40.7628 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mod6: see thread
asciilifeform: (modern gpg does not sign only the 16)
mod6: yah, gotta re-read here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54492 @ 0.0006754 = 36.8039 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45641 @ 0.00067461 = 30.7899 BTC [-]
phf: so to continue this archaeological dig, GPG 2.6 clarifies the usage of 2 octets. reads the header, reads the rsa ciphertext, decrypts rsa. rsa contains a digest of some fields from header and the body of message. so first thing he does next is check the first 2-octets of digest againts the 2-octets in header. if the two don't match program bails with "Error: RSA-decrypted block is corrupted. This may be caused either by corrupted data or by usin
phf: g the wrong RSA key." message format spec explains "First 2 bytes of the Message Digest inside the RSA-encrypted integer, to help us figure out if we used the right RSA key to check the signature."
phf: for the curious ftp://ftp.pgpi.org/pub/pgp/2.x/doc/pgformat.txt, http://www.spinnaker.com/crypt/pgp/pgp26ui/pgp26uis.zip (src/crypto.c:1289)
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