Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-27 | 2015-05-29 → ↓
decimation: asciilifeform: heh the vacuum has a 'GE' logo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50439 @ 0.0003136 = 15.8177 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82100 @ 0.0003142 = 25.7958 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57050 @ 0.00030833 = 17.5902 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7121 @ 0.0003091 = 2.2011 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21250 @ 0.00030785 = 6.5418 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52900 @ 0.00030785 = 16.2853 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00030999 = 15.825 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49800 @ 0.00031452 = 15.6631 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34156 @ 0.00031482 = 10.753 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147962 @ 0.00030541 = 45.1891 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00030185 = 4.1052 BTC [-]
fluffypony: that was supposed to be me closing my IRC client
fluffypony needs more coffee
fluffypony is afk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52100 @ 0.00030185 = 15.7264 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up TheAdversary
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00030158 = 19.3162 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: Watchmen (2009) has a beautiful black Mac SE/30
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40100 @ 0.0003035 = 12.1704 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.0003035 = 4.4008 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26450 @ 0.00030345 = 8.0263 BTC [-]
davout: mod6: nice work on the metrics gathering!
davout: did you measure the total consumed BW for each sync?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o hey, nice.
BingoBoingo: davout: How much of what kind of CPU is monero taking as it syncs?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18338 @ 0.0003035 = 5.5656 BTC [+]
davout: BingoBoingo: doesn't seem to use up a lot
davout: I have ~16% CPU, 32% MEM
davout: the box has 4gb ram
BingoBoingo: davout: And it still takes so long to sync days?
davout: I'm 158 days behind still
mircea_popescu: sounds more like a weak network than anything
BingoBoingo: If monero's still around in a year might be interested.
BingoBoingo: That would still be like getting into Bitcoin in 2011-ish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00031482 = 2.8649 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146642 << at least it stopped checking out the teenaged prices.
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 01:51:58; BingoBoingo: MPOE seems like It's been awfully stable at the 3 mark lately
BingoBoingo: This is probably either one of the best or the worst times to move into s.mpoe
BingoBoingo rather... marinated... discovered #fatpeoplehate is a channel on freenode
BingoBoingo: so cathartic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52200 @ 0.00030543 = 15.9434 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: probably appeal less to #b-a members not in the god damned middle west
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61750 @ 0.00031483 = 19.4408 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: it is /!
BingoBoingo: It really is. Apparently they organize around a reddit, butwho knows how long that part will last given reddit's censorship.
BingoBoingo: Mebbe they move to 8chan for moar ad impressions?
BingoBoingo: !up diana_coman
cazalla: gee that was one awful hangover
BingoBoingo not even done drinking and next hangover is beginning
cazalla: imma go to AA or something lol
BingoBoingo: But who will help keep the #b-a glass full?
cazalla: "If you answered “yes” to more than 8 questions, you may have a serious level of alcohol-related problems requiring immediate attention and possible treatment."
cazalla scores 22, what's this 8 business?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00030543 = 8.3688 BTC [-]
cazalla: BingoBoingo, full? it's been spilling over for months if not years
BingoBoingo: cazalla: We got to carry it inshifts like and olympic torch
BingoBoingo: !s olympic
assbot: 39 results for 'olympic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=olympic
cazalla: i don't really want to be a gold medal winner at drinking
BingoBoingo: I kinda still do
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121881 @ 0.00031851 = 38.8203 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: the shit is too expensive anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00031868 = 8.5088 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Don't forget silent bob, he kinda filmed it
BingoBoingo: I also kinda like/might have wrote http://8ch.net/btc/res/332.html#q341
cazalla: don't link my drunken shit posting :P
BingoBoingo: cazalla: I dun know how you imageboard post. You aussies are all alike.
BingoBoingo: On that medium
cazalla: dats raysis
BingoBoingo: Not as racis as dem abbos
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 03:26:41; *: asciilifeform spotted a gurl from transylvania today; she worked in a restaurant; queried based on accent, familiar from hanging out with mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: so where was she from ?
BingoBoingo guesses Cluj
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146729 << heh nu zayet... moderately popular in ro of the 90s.
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 03:50:21; asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt0BJ0QE-9Y << mega-relevant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48750 @ 0.00031567 = 15.3889 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42943 @ 0.00031836 = 13.6713 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49257 @ 0.00031882 = 15.7041 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up PinkPosixPXE
BingoBoingo: !up chatquack
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26950 @ 0.00031086 = 8.3777 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: trinque: send you an email with the solution
gabriel_laddel: s/send/sent
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59200 @ 0.0003147 = 18.6302 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: ;; later tell nubbins` where all did you live in Korea?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Isn't nubbsy in twodogs land?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I've nfi what twodogs land is and idk
BingoBoingo: !s twodogsland
assbot: 0 results for 'twodogsland' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=twodogsland
BingoBoingo: !s twodogs land
assbot: 0 results for 'twodogs land' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=twodogs+land
BingoBoingo: !s two dogs land
assbot: 0 results for 'two dogs land' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=two+dogs+land
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56900 @ 0.00030878 = 17.5696 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.0003066 = 12.9692 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo basically, these dudes allowed the us into soccer in the 80s, now the us doesn't want them to be the bosses anymore.
BingoBoingo: pretty much
mircea_popescu: pretty cheeky.
BingoBoingo: Kinda what US just doing what it does
mircea_popescu: fifa should probably just convict "us prosecutors" for fraud etc.
BingoBoingo: Basketball and Hockey were US tamed pretty readily, but the last couple years European teams started doing a bunch of exhibition games in the US and selling out so Nike and Gatorade had to call their congressmen
BingoBoingo: Because OMG Serbia Vs. Croatia sold 45,000 tickets in a third tier midwestern city for and exhibition game
mircea_popescu: that said, a bunch of these twerps were pretty rotten. jack warner being a fine example
mircea_popescu: of course he got kicked out years ago, but whatevs.
gabriel_laddel: !s epic mega-series
assbot: 1 results for 'epic mega-series' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=epic+mega-series
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: To be fair in illustrating the US's humiliation over the soccer situation the US's most bezzel'd league had teams selling tickets under five dollars to not fill stadiums in some the same cities soccer was selling out.
BingoBoingo: They are embarassed
BingoBoingo: They also don't so anything in the way of running a minor league either, but...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72300 @ 0.00030537 = 22.0783 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: The hockey situation in the US/Canada isn't much better. A number of great players drafted by NHL teams are staying in the KHL
BingoBoingo: ;;google vladimir sbotka
gribble: Vladimír Sobotka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladim%C3%ADr_Sobotka>; Vladimir Sobotka - St Louis Blues - NHL.com: <http://blues.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8471743>; Vladimir Sobotka, Blues - Stats - NHL.com - Players: <http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471743>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28657 @ 0.00031416 = 9.0029 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40726 @ 0.0003194 = 13.0079 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20009 @ 0.00031417 = 6.2862 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52521 @ 0.00031136 = 16.3529 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21352 @ 0.00031981 = 6.8286 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12738 @ 0.00031136 = 3.9661 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: hola pete_dushenski
gabriel_laddel: !up pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: hola gabe !
gabriel_laddel: so what jurisdiction are you visiting today?
pete_dushenski: bern today.
pete_dushenski: and the sun is *finally* shining !
pete_dushenski: 22C and crystal clear blue skies
pete_dushenski: spring is definitely in the air in switzerland
gabriel_laddel: sorry, bern?
pete_dushenski: my goodness can these people garden
gabriel_laddel: that sounds lovely
pete_dushenski: it is :)
pete_dushenski: sort of a quieter, smaller scale japan full of big-eyed folks
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: you've been to JP?
pete_dushenski: tokyo, osaka, nagasaki
pete_dushenski: spent a few days in each
assbot: Logged on 26-05-2015 00:50:22; mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski the funniest part about the medieval japanese cuts is that at the time, bare cunt was the standard there and nowhere else. meanwhile, they have to pixelate it today, lest it jumps out and eats their head or something.
pete_dushenski imagine a japanimation lockness bursting forth from between girl's legs
gabriel_laddel: Oh that would make a lovely hentai. Breaking the 4th wall pixellation of privates.
pete_dushenski: one wonders what it'll take to break the pixelation wall
pete_dushenski: fukushima... wasn't enough.
pete_dushenski: i can see the idiots giving up on their idiocy after a good chinese butt pumping.
gabriel_laddel: JP is weird. I don't know that they're censoring it because they find it "offensive"
gabriel_laddel: did you see the signs telling schoolchildren to "beware the chikan"?
gabriel_laddel: BAD (#bitcoin-assets distro) update #3. Install works (writing this from a machine formatted in the past 24hrs) and is a massive PITA. Next TODO on my list is to radically simplify (automate) the install. I've updated install doc if anyone is interested: gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html
gabriel_laddel: mod6: ^ is based on funtoo, a variant of gentoo.
gabriel_laddel: mod6: Idk what exactly your goals are on your gentoo quest, but have you reached the conclusion that portage is insane and must go?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146846 << my first impression was that the instrument is a very long... spoon
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 11:55:42; mircea_popescu: in other news, http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdd3hurG6I1ri9dzjo1_500.gif
gabriel_laddel: ^ I can't read Japanese, but that looks correct from what I've read of the phenomenon.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform clearly a horsewhip
pete_dushenski: gabriel_laddel it looks effective to me. at least as much as any fuzzy rat puppet (in canada) telling kids not to trust strangers
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: ah, but the weird bit is that this is (according to asa akira) the *most common* offense in JP, and happens to a huge percentage of the population.
gabriel_laddel: So, they put up signs warning schoolgirls about being molested on the packed trains, but never put any effort into... putting personal space on the trains or the like.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: they did proclaim female-only train cars iirc
pete_dushenski: gabriel_laddel how does one insert personal space onto an small mountainous island ?
pete_dushenski: this is like trying to build a concrete foundation under a mountain
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: how I would go about it - pastebin.com/AdTXnKT6
pete_dushenski: under *the whole thing*
pete_dushenski: gabriel_laddel this is the spec/manifesto for BAD ?
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: nah, it was a message to someone on #lisp
gabriel_laddel: also, I tried getting someone doing housing in SF excited about it
pete_dushenski: good god man get yourself a blog already.
pete_dushenski: what is this, 1960 ?
gabriel_laddel: (he raised something like 30MM - is doing traditional housing)
gabriel_laddel: fucking moron
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: cars (at least of the petrol variety) underground is a ventilation nightmare. use trains, like sane people
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: noted.
pete_dushenski: gabriel_laddel what 'it' were you getting mr. sf-house-builder excited about ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i will also note that i tried the opengl thing, and barfed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49557 @ 0.00031132 = 15.4281 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski is using trains to bounce around la suisse.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: right?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: it doesn't map to henderson-style 'functional graphics' at all
gabriel_laddel: OpenGL needs to be taken out back and shot, along with its creators
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: modular, robotically assembled human habitation
pete_dushenski: gabriel_laddel ah ok.
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: how do the trains compare to your merc?
pete_dushenski: lol the scenery out the window is prettier. also, tracks are a hell of a lot smoother than shitty alberta roads.
pete_dushenski: swiss tracks in particular.
pete_dushenski: the train system here is fantastic : frequent scheduling, short trips, stations are conveniently located.
pete_dushenski: it helps that everything is tightly packed together.
pete_dushenski: a 45 min or even 2 hour trip doesn't eat your day up
pete_dushenski: the 6-9 hour train i took across spain and portugal a few years ago most certainly did.
gabriel_laddel: !up pete_dushenski
gabriel_laddel: debuggering
gabriel_laddel: !up pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: aha 'chikan' means groping
pete_dushenski shakes fist at slow-ass-assbot.
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: are you traveling the world, or do you take up residency in these countries from time to time?
pete_dushenski: i just travel for a few weeks here and a few more weeks there.
pete_dushenski: it's a hobby more than anything.
pete_dushenski: homebase is still in canada.
pete_dushenski: traveling keeps me sane and clear-headed. edmonton is pretty dull but that's where my roots are.
pete_dushenski: i'd leave at the drop of a hat if push came to shove, but it hasn't yet.
gabriel_laddel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richling << Impressive resume. Mitch also has a collection of CL mathematics hacks, mjrcalc.
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: ever been to China or Korea?
pete_dushenski: mhm. i've been to pusan (where i have a cousin), beijing, shanghai, and hong kong.
pete_dushenski: ftr my cousin isn't korean, his wife... is.
pete_dushenski: gabriel_laddel just curious ? have you been to kr and cn as well ?
gabriel_laddel: pete_dushenski: Nope. Consider this a request for a blog post on your travels in these two regions.
pete_dushenski: i'll take your request into consideration :)
gabriel_laddel: !up pete_dushenski
gabriel_laddel is going for a walk
pete_dushenski: cheers !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.0003058 = 18.6844 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: "In a fifth floor office just off Zurich's main shopping street, researchers at UBS (UBSG.VX) are testing dozens of technologies to see what could make the world's biggest wealth manager more appealing as fortunes pass to the next generation."
pete_dushenski: ""How do you get under the skin of clients today, because they often work on their mobiles and they manage their wealth in their spare time," said Dave Bruno, head of UBS's innovation lab. "It might be in the bathroom, it might be waiting for a flight.""
pete_dushenski: "Bruno and his team are designing video games, including a prototype puzzle for iPads and smartphones, and looking at virtual reality simulations to help people visualise what are often complex investment portfolios."
pete_dushenski: "They are also working on technologies that allow clients to log into their accounts using their voice patterns and facial features, doing away with the time consuming and frustrating need to answer security questions."
pete_dushenski: the future of this country... looks awful.
pete_dushenski: thankfully, there are plenty of relics and pieces of art to pick from once they shoot themselves in the head 9 more times.
pete_dushenski: also, it's worth mentioning that for anyone into 100+ year-old deadtree books, switzerland is where it's at
pete_dushenski: i've never seen so many beautifully preserved copies of literature, philosophy, history, biology, you name it. in german, french, latin, english too
pete_dushenski: i saw one such bookstore in manhattan a couple years back, complete with $30,000 copy of le petite prince, but that was just one shop.
pete_dushenski: there are a handful of such stores in pretty much every town here !
pete_dushenski: it's pretty heavenly, i have to admit.
gabriel_laddel: copypaste: re: your ddos / anon problems, have you read about wotnet in the logs? \
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00030502 = 3.6602 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: "Avago, a maker of chips for the wireless and industrial markets, is offering Broadcom shareholders $17 billion in cash and Avago shares valued at $20 billion in one of the biggest deals ever in the chip industry." << i have to admit that i'd never heard of 'avago' before.
pete_dushenski: though apparently they recently purchase 'emulex' as well
pete_dushenski: !s avago
assbot: 0 results for 'avago' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=avago
gabriel_laddel: !up pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: "Broadcom is known as a fabless company. It outsources all semiconductor manufacturing to Asian merchant foundries, such as GlobalFoundries, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, Silterra, TSMC, and United Microelectronics Corporation." << ahaha. so what the fuck did $37 bn even buy ?
mod6: <+gabriel_laddel> mod6: Idk what exactly your goals are on your gentoo quest, but have you reached the conclusion that portage is insane and must go? << this project had to take a pause; I need to get some cash together to buy a physical box to put together steps for configuration on real hardware as opposed to aws or other cloud infrastructure. no, for now, I'm trying to stick with a Gentoo-amd64-uclibc-hardened. That's the goal anyway.
mod6: I should be able to get a box for this sometime after the 1st.
gabriel_laddel: mod6: what is your ultimate goal with the gentoo quest?
mod6: it's in the logs.
gabriel_laddel: !up TheAdversary
mike_c: we gotta get more chinese in here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111812 @ 0.00030373 = 33.9607 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134588 @ 0.00030168 = 40.6025 BTC [-] {4}
mod6: gabriel_laddel: also, it'll get discussed in the Monthly Address.
mod6: so, stay tuned :]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00030137 = 5.7712 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35361 @ 0.00030108 = 10.6465 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 35000 @ 0.00005898 = 2.0643 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00030411 = 5.4132 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: (it's a boy)
mike_c: ben_vulpes: your baby arrived?
ben_vulpes: naw, just the sonogram
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00030411 = 5.8389 BTC [+]
mike_c: ah. correct # of fingers and toes?
ben_vulpes: looked like
ben_vulpes: many measurements
mike_c: congrats!
ben_vulpes: then the machine ran out of paper and there were many windows error modals
mike_c: hehe
mod6: ben_vulpes: congrats!!
ben_vulpes: ty mod6
mod6: yw. glad to hear the good news.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81536 @ 0.00030778 = 25.0952 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: probly best to reserve congratulations for when it survives that first night on the porch
mike_c: everybody's bringing their newborns to c4, right?
jurov: http://pastebin.com/AdTXnKT6 that's some elaborate shannonizer?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3369 @ 0.000315 = 1.0612 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42200 @ 0.000315 = 13.293 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.0003162 = 1.6442 BTC [+]
jurov: ben_vulpes: congrats! hope it'll be mangy after the daddy!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137727 @ 0.0003094 = 42.6127 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57698 @ 0.00029985 = 17.3007 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: mike_c omaigerd...
mircea_popescu: heh yeah. stoya is probably the defining woman of the 2000s.
mircea_popescu: shoulda been jolie's crown. but libertardism can ruin anything.
felipelalli: Finally in English: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37maml/the_fabulous_bitcoin_island/ - thank you danielpbarron for the help.
mircea_popescu: jurov in any case he means consumed not "consummate"
mircea_popescu: consummation is what happens to virgin brides.
mircea_popescu: so now the choice is between system-d and system.html ?
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 13:45:46; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146846 << my first impression was that the instrument is a very long... spoon
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146910 << i think the idea is that the warning enhances the experience.
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 13:49:33; gabriel_laddel: So, they put up signs warning schoolgirls about being molested on the packed trains, but never put any effort into... putting personal space on the trains or the like.
mircea_popescu: for the record, egypt had women only cars in the subway
mircea_popescu: i know because i got into one.
chetty: but you cant do that in the west, it wouldnt be fair to have women only stuffs
mircea_popescu: chetty oh remember how giggly they were when we ended up in the wrong car ? lol
chetty: hahahahaha
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146972 << most of the old jewish haunt, from berlin to moscow, is a huge pile of old books looking for new onwners
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 14:32:02; pete_dushenski: i've never seen so many beautifully preserved copies of literature, philosophy, history, biology, you name it. in german, french, latin, english too
mircea_popescu personally doesn't care about books anymore, but can readily see the collector's mindset.
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/XSCaapg.png << heh best cycles ever. we're getting back to the baseline, which was 1820
chetty: I still like the feel of an actual book, but the worlds libraries on your lap is hard to beat
mike_c: except for europe. i don't think they're going to turn it around
mircea_popescu: i think they are probably going to be 20-30% forever.
mircea_popescu: the last major invention in the world (the cellphone) is yurpean.
mircea_popescu: the last time the us invented something, hitler wasn't born yet.
mike_c: the nsa invented bitcoin
mircea_popescu: oh right, i forgot.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1147000 << congrats! even thousdand too look at that.
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 16:29:59; ben_vulpes: (it's a boy)
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: congrats man! :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00030821 = 9.6007 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.00029906 = 7.8952 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7368 @ 0.00030144 = 2.221 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56611 @ 0.00030144 = 17.0648 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00030201 = 3.156 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49800 @ 0.00030732 = 15.3045 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mod6 o hey check it out, early report
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: is anyone interested in seeing the (elementary) 4294967297 proof as a proper article ?
asciilifeform: or is it obvious to everyone by now
mircea_popescu: documenting things is always a good idea.
mircea_popescu: so go right ahead
asciilifeform: well yes, but is there any part of it that isn't obvious
williamdunne: Mm should be in Bucharest in a couple of weeks..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, mod6, et al: has anyone considered the effect of not storing 'orphan transactions' ?
mod6: I can't remember if we discussed that or not, outside of the context of your OrphanageBurner
asciilifeform: not related
asciilifeform: or rather, not directly
asciilifeform: our 0.5.3.x has MAX_ORPHAN_TRANSACTIONS but the boojum is that a malicious (or 'cosmic rayed') node can transmit orphan transaction of any size, iirc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43000 @ 0.0003016 = 12.9688 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: 1) and thus, valgrind will not see this as a leak, because the memory is theoretically reclaimable
mod6: ah!
asciilifeform: 2) tiny turds, stored and then reclaimed, lead to fragging
ben_vulpes: interdasting
asciilifeform: about to try this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48949 @ 0.00030149 = 14.7576 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: intentionally filling a 0.5.3.x with orphans?
asciilifeform: no, the opposite
ben_vulpes: *.x << contains thermonuke?
asciilifeform: naturally, with thermonuke also
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> about to try this. << still failing to parse
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it will make sense once you read the patch.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10865 @ 0.00030149 = 3.2757 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: gentlemen, start your engines.
asciilifeform: mine is at 87132 and counting.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17919 @ 0.00030149 = 5.4024 BTC [-]
asciilifeform takes off 'madman muntz' napoleon bicorn
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 please consider this patch for your test rig
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform is stuck wondering why nobody tried this
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu this patch sorta sits right down and has lunch right on top of your 'clean air filter' third rail discussed in c3. but this gordian knot -will- have to be cut one way or another.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: why not just rewrite the memory allocation engine at this point, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: because the simplest way to get more space, so to speak, in one's house, is to -stop- bringing in and keeping driftwood, dead animals, neighbour's garbage
asciilifeform: rather than building bigger house
asciilifeform: or hiring a housekeeper
asciilifeform: and ought to be tried first.
asciilifeform: !s hoarders buried alive
assbot: 0 results for 'hoarders buried alive' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hoarders+buried+alive
asciilifeform: ;;google hoarders buried alive
gribble: Hoarding: Buried Alive | TLC: <http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/hoarding-buried-alive/>; Hoarding Moments Season 1 | Hoarding: Buried Alive | TLC: <http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/hoarding-buried-alive/videos/videos/>; Hoarding: Buried Alive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoarding:_Buried_Alive>
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
asciilifeform: 133060 & counting.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000094.html << wow! nice. will review & start up a test on this later tonight. many thanks. :]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: more seriously, the only kind of allocator that is a sure pill against fragging is a compacting one. which means -relocating- !! just picture this in a cpp proggy not originally designed for it
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sorta like the proverbial 'jet engine on a ford pinto' situation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00029847 = 11.8791 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: 'twasn't serious.
mike_c: slab allocation would prevent fragging too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37563 @ 0.0003162 = 11.8774 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: !up antonosika_
asciilifeform: mike_c: slab only really works when we have a small number of known sizes of object
mike_c: like orphan blocks, no?
asciilifeform: mike_c: we no longer have orphan (bastard) blocks..
asciilifeform: (or at least i don't)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42600 @ 0.00029844 = 12.7135 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: incidentally, now that we have a bounded memory footprint, it may be time to try running pogo with swap space again
asciilifeform: danielpbarron ^
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: iirc you had something set up for this ^ ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56020 @ 0.00031694 = 17.755 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: yes my pogo uses 2 gigs of swap
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: incidentally, even though 'transaction orphanage amputator' may not be a magical pill against oom-on-pogo (my preliminary investigation suggests that it is -not-) it still rips out the idiotic ddos vector that every unbounded cache of anything whatsoever is.
asciilifeform: and yes, even with the count-bound, the in-practice bound on the tx orphanage bytewise is ridiculous - 5GB ?
asciilifeform: 'hoarders' belong in lunatic asylums.
asciilifeform: imagine having a special door in your house through which perfect strangers are invited to dump in up to five thousand tonnes of gravel.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32600 @ 0.00030959 = 10.0926 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: and in the case of 'pogo', the door is not in your house, but in... your car.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00030099 = 7.615 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: so it occurs to me that a #b-a version of archive.today might be useful, really nothing stopping whomever going back to edit archives whereas with our own, we could sign the archives we make
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @ 0.00029788 = 12.928 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00030254 = 5.5667 BTC [+]
hanbot: cazalla, you can alter what you sign. you mean deedbot?
cazalla: hanbot, well of course someone can alter what they submit but they risk their rep in doing so if found out
hanbot: just like if unsigned then? :D
cazalla: i'm sure there is a better way to do it but relying on archive.today probably isn't that great an idea but not sure what else to do (for example, all the bitcoin auction stuff has been completely removed from the US Marshall's website)
hanbot: ahaha. mp was calling them scammers a month ago, everyone was like "orly, mp is so crazu". turns out...
hanbot: anyway, archive.today the deedbot page consisting of a dump of the page source of an archive.today page? haha!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106915 @ 0.00032148 = 34.371 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14250 @ 0.00032262 = 4.5973 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 184650, ~166M
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16878 @ 0.00030939 = 5.2219 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: ^^
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: noooo
ben_vulpes: have not, no.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: sorta like the proverbial 'jet engine on a ford pinto' situation. << obligatory: http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/
ben_vulpes: "*** Update 7/18/06 *** You have to give the California Department of Motor Vehicles (the DMV) credit for creativity on this one. A DMV insider has disclosed to me that the DMV has made a formal request to a federal agency to rule if my Beetle constitutes a threat to national security based on what could happen if it got into the wrong hands."" << hah news to me since the last time i looked at the
ben_vulpes: thing
cazalla: half figured that was going to be an electrocution
asciilifeform: aaaaaand now for something completely different...
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
cazalla: common for people to get toasty'd on our rail way lines here trying to get at the copper
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al:
asciilifeform: (EXPERIMENTAL) IgProf Hooks Apparatus !
asciilifeform: mod6: you can use this to create a blockheight vs heap plot
asciilifeform: just call getinfo along with profileheapdump
mod6: oh, darn. ok im compiling right now with : bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE + { OrphanageBurner } + { TX Orphanage Amputation }
mod6: think I should stop and compile that in as well?
asciilifeform: no hurry
mod6: well, was going to launch this for a full sync test.
mod6: nice tho!!
asciilifeform: (goes without saying that you need igprof on your box for this to work)
ben_vulpes dreams of a box beefy enough to run sync tests for every patch submitted
mod6: i've never used it. im guessing i can just compile/install via 3rd party package?
asciilifeform: mod6: aha
mod6: ok.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: your hardware is not the limiting reactant here
asciilifeform: (the network is)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: some several tb of disk would be nice
ben_vulpes: anyways, that's a nifty muntzing in the first one
asciilifeform: 2nd one is some dark magic, only serious sappers need apply
mod6: do you reccommend "Scientific Linux 5" or "Scientific Linux 6"?
asciilifeform: mod6: i have never seen, smelled, touched - either.
ben_vulpes: selinux? when what hum how?
mod6: oh, just looking for a version of IgProf to grab... maybe im looking at the wrong thing.
mod6: yeah, thats where i am, i just wasnt on the DL page, nm.
asciilifeform: btw, after dumping a heap profile snapshot,
asciilifeform: igprof-analyse -d -v -g -r MEM_TOTAL heap1 > heap1.txt
asciilifeform: and so forth
asciilifeform: gives the plain text output
asciilifeform: (just like many other profilers, this one craps out somewhat terse encoded transcript by default)
asciilifeform: this gives MEM_TOTAL (how much churned)
asciilifeform: other options (e.g., MEM_LIVE) described in manual.
mod6: ok i'll come back to that, it's like a whole process to build that thing.
asciilifeform: 'MEM_LIVE records the “live” memory – memory that hasn’t been freed. If the profile statistics file you are processing came from the end of the application’s run, this will be the memory leaked by the job. If the profile statistics file was triggered during the running of the job, it is a snapshot of the heap, i.e. a heap profile. The statistic is accurate (not statistical) and records the number of bytes allocated a
asciilifeform: nd the number of calls involved.'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: ^^^^ sample output
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.00030928 = 13.6083 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ^ both orphanage-destroyers applied for this example run
mod6 looks
mod6: oh wow, nice.
asciilifeform: and you can get these -during runtime- now
asciilifeform: instead of waiting for the thing to die, as in valgrind.
mod6: :]
mod6: very cool
asciilifeform: also the thing appears to have better coverage of dynamic libs
asciilifeform: (if you have libs with debug symbols, will display line #s therein as well)
asciilifeform: iirc there might be some fancy html-output mode also. but - have not tried this yet.
mod6: good deal.
mod6: i'll work on building this tool here this weekend.
mod6: well, maybe after this sync is done with these 2 patches anyway. gotta still write this SoBA yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24969 @ 0.00030496 = 7.6145 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up referredbyloper
ben_vulpes: quick poll: who writes in cursive?
asciilifeform would, but had handwriting neural circuitry utterly nuked by alphabet switch in childhood
asciilifeform now can only write in the worst possible print
asciilifeform: interestingly, the longer i go without writing by hand, the more this part of brain rots
asciilifeform: i even found myself, as of 4-5 yrs ago, often writing the 2nd letter of a word first
asciilifeform: this -never- happened at any point when i actually picked up a pen on a daily basis (school)
referredbyloper: The cancer of bureaucracy: how it will destroy science, medicine, education; and eventually everything else. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.mehy.2009.11.038
ben_vulpes: referredbyloper: and who are you?
ben_vulpes: and hyu with that auto-downloading pdf
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> interestingly, the longer i go without writing by hand, the more this part of brain rots << expected behavior
ben_vulpes: i refuse to take notes on a computer
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: is there a russian equivalent to cursive?
ben_vulpes: of course there is
decimation: asciilifeform: you can get some of this kind of data with 'perf'
decimation: which comes with the kernel
decimation: but not the details
mod6: asciilifeform: full sync of bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE + { OrphanageBurner } + { TX Orphanage Amputation } underway
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2015#1146983 < primarily it bought a whole pile of sunk costs in existing designs, plus serfs who know how to manipulate the tools
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2015 14:52:47; pete_dushenski: "Broadcom is known as a fabless company. It outsources all semiconductor manufacturing to Asian merchant foundries, such as GlobalFoundries, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, Silterra, TSMC, and United Microelectronics Corporation." << ahaha. so what the fuck did $37 bn even buy ?
decimation: but when you consier that apple bought renasas for $0.48 bn, you gotta wonder if they are overpaying
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37000 @ 0.00031052 = 11.4892 BTC [+]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> re: memory hunger: anyone investigated effect of https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E17076_04/html/api_reference/CXX/envset_memory_max.html ? << I haven't, but I certainly wanna try this out.
mod6: What's the memory cap that you wanna use on a pogo? 256Mb?
danielpbarron: !up rwg
mod6 reminds himself to setup that pogo
williamdunne: !up referredbyloper
rwg: danielpbarron, yo
decimation: !s referredbyloper
assbot: 10 results for 'referredbyloper' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=referredbyloper
decimation: http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?page_id=6 < "One project where my friend and officemate Steven T. Kent (now chief scientist and vice president at BBN, and a chief advisor to NSA) and I lost was our strong argument to put mandatory end-to-end encryption into TCP (and adaptations of the ideas to UDP-based protocols, such as RTP, hich I worked out but abandoned). "
mod6: asciilifeform: in the igprof_mem_live output, is the "Total" column in aggregate bytes - a sum of all bytes from the call's of said function?
decimation: "Steve?s design was rejected, not because it was unsound, but because NSA did not want to see ANY encryption work going on in the public domain ARPA project, some say because they did not want to see the world be ?too secure? by default. (Rivest and friends had just invented RSA, and the government was trying to declare it Top Secret, then later prohibited under ITAR munitions control export laws)."
danielpbarron: hi rwg !
danielpbarron: do you know how to gpg ?
decimation: mod6: here's how to read the output http://igprof.org/text-output-format.html
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.00031052 = 11.3185 BTC [+]
decimation: by my eye, it looks to me that ThreadMessageHandler(void*) is a turd
mod6: thx decimation
mod6: have you looked at ThreadMessageHandler2 ?
mod6: wait, these are not just bytes allocated during calls, these are LEAKED BYTES?!
decimation: actually CBlock::AddToBlockIndex(unsigned int, unsigned int) [10]
mod6: lolol that's horrendus. ProcessBlock leaked 26`847`114 bytes over 346`507 calls?!
decimation: yes but noted that the leaks were all in its children
mod6: asciilifeform: how long (how many blocks) was bitcoind sync'ing while you took this sample?
decimation: if you follow that trail you find it's AddToBlockIndex
mod6: ahh. ok
mod6 looks
mod6: asciilifeform: oh nm, 115500, didn't see that in the URL
mod6: decimation: i see now
mod6: 26'370'420 / 26'370'420 346'503 / 346'503 CBlock::AcceptBlock() [11]
mod6: leads to
mod6: 26'370'420 / 26'370'612 346'503 / 346'506 CBlock::AddToBlockIndex(unsigned int, unsigned int) [10]
decimation: There is all kinds of allocation that happens in that fuction
decimation: this makes me wanna burn std::lib and boost
mod6: !up ascii_modem
ascii_modem: nonono not leaks
ascii_modem: plz read manual
mod6: aight, me goes back to it.
ascii_modem: there are no leaks in the usual sense
ascii_modem: the flat graph from mod6 tells us this
ascii_modem: thinkaboutit
ascii_modem: as for the memlimit thing, it has to do with bdb only!
ascii_modem: and 256m is insane, we only have 128 total
mod6: ah, ok, couldn't remember the amt.
ascii_modem: db should't get more than 4 or at most 8
mod6: and yea, just for db.
mod6: ok
mod6 reads
ascii_modem: and - plz remember how to read profilers - the 'turd' is merely the procedure that is at the root of call graph tree
ascii_modem: so naturally will appear 'heavy' because 'all roads lead to rome'
mod6: yah, werd.
danielpbarron: !up rwg
decimation: asciilifeform: all roads lead to home, yes, but home is a good place to start examining each potential pathway
decimation: mod6: so you did a graph of vmstat calls? Is that what ascii is talking about?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28472 @ 0.00031217 = 8.8881 BTC [+]
mod6: decimation: ah, no. graphs are from nmon. there is a document that goes along with all of that. it's in the mailing list and in the http://thebitcoin.foundation/test/perf/ root
decimation: so the goal here is to reduce memory use, not to find leaks?
mod6: is that directed at me with my perf tests? or at asciilifeform?
decimation: I guess at ascii, why he bothered with igprof
decimation: presumably the 'leaks' were found by igprof because he killed it after running a certain time, so memory wasn't freed?
mod6: yeah, im not even sure what i'm looking at anymore with that igprof stuff yet.
mod6: i was just getting started reading and got pulled away for a minute.
mod6: but as far as the nmon tests, I wanted to system level profile the entire sync process -- get some visuals, see what we're looking at as far as overall system usage, etc.
decimation: it defintely thinks those areas are leaks, but that might be because of how it was killed, not because it was actually leaked (in the sense of the pointer was lost)
mod6: yeah, im not sure. i need to read more there.
decimation: I see what ascii means about the flat graph (memory.png on the orphanage thermonuke)
mod6: in addition to the valgrind tests that ascii did earlier this month, i was going to dig into some of that myself in june.
mod6: and now, maybe learn the ropes on igprof.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00032704 = 6.4754 BTC [+]
mod6: <+decimation> I see what ascii means about the flat graph (memory.png on the orphanage thermonuke) << ahh
asciilifeform: decimation: where do you see leaks ?
asciilifeform: and i will add, nothing was killed, that thing is running even now, without interruption
decimation: the igprof documentation says that the report shows memory leaks
asciilifeform: decimation: all i noticed is the same 'pocket change' leaks as valgrind shows
decimation: "MEM_LIVE records the ?live? memory ? memory that hasn?t been freed. If the profile statistics file you are processing came from the end of the application?s run, this will be the memory leaked by the job. If the profile statistics file was triggered during the running of the job, it is a snapshot of the heap, i.e. a heap profile. The statistic is accurate (not statistical) and records the number of bytes allocated and the number of c
mod6: so the docs say, "MEM_LIVE records the ``live'' memory -- memory that hasn't been freed. If the profile statistics file you are processing came from the end
mod6: haha. was just typing that out ^^
asciilifeform: well no shit it wasn't freed
asciilifeform: it is in use !
asciilifeform: as in, actually alive
decimation: ah so it wasn't killed, that makes sense
asciilifeform: this is not valgrind! it does not need the process to terminate.
mod6: cool.
mod6 goes back to reading
decimation: asciilifeform: so is your goal to trim out all the 'inactive' memory use?
decimation: so that it fits more comfortably in the pogo?
asciilifeform: decimation: my goal is to get it to sit down in 120M or so.
asciilifeform: whatever it takes.
asciilifeform: there is no acceptable reason for the thing not to go in this very generous box.
asciilifeform: in fact, i want it in 32M.
decimation: heh. you realize this means you are gonna probably have to discard all the C++ shit
asciilifeform: decimation: aaaaand without any major rewrite.
asciilifeform: just by taking every piece of retarded cruft and shooting it in the head.
decimation: yeah there's tons of cruft in there, no doubt
asciilifeform: every piece of 'orphan' nonsense, where thing works 100% as well with it gone
asciilifeform: every kind of cache
asciilifeform: every idiot dependency that just adds retardation (e.g., dns)
decimation: resolving the fixed hostnames?
asciilifeform: every piece of shit that gets stored & kept around for no reason
asciilifeform: fuck the fixed hostnames
asciilifeform: didn't i kill those already ?
decimation: I'm not sure, I need to get back on the patch train
mod6: <+ascii_modem> nonono not leaks << ok i see, so with -mp in the MEM_LIVE output we're just seeing a live heap. not leaks as the other doc page said.
mod6: <+ascii_modem> there are no leaks in the usual sense <+ascii_modem> the flat graph from mod6 tells us this << right
asciilifeform: ^ where it is now
mod6: that other page about "text-output-format.html" threw me off.
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: l0l extra 0 in there
asciilifeform: rather, extra 1
asciilifeform: 172660, meant.
decimation: asciilifeform: does it slow the processing down (igprof)?
asciilifeform: decimation: not noticeably
decimation: interesting.
asciilifeform: then again, it is running on a very generously oversized box
asciilifeform: ;;calc 144897106 - 74026911
gribble: 70870195
asciilifeform: where the hell did -these- go ?
asciilifeform: this is -exactly- my complaint with valgrind.
asciilifeform: yes, it's a typo
mod6: OH, i didn't actually need to take the extranious '1' out. gotcha
asciilifeform: i'd fix it, but these links are not intended as permanent
asciilifeform: i want everybody to try this at home.
decimation: asciilifeform: your complaint is that valgrind doesn't catch all the memory use?
asciilifeform: trivially verified with pmap
asciilifeform: let's put it another way:
asciilifeform: there is absolutely no reason for bitcoind to ever use more than at most a few MB more than when it first boots.
asciilifeform: is there even any reason ever to keep more than one or two (second being, one that is in the process of load/verify) blocks in ram at one time
decimation: asciilifeform: it appears a big chunk of the memory in use is tied up in the CBlockIndex class
asciilifeform: decimation: that might be the bdb cache
asciilifeform: (see earlier link)
asciilifeform: it does -not- appear to grow significantly as the thing runs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13748 @ 0.00032704 = 4.4961 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73528 @ 0.00031891 = 23.4488 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: o look at that
mircea_popescu: mthreat interesting. so basically they run them looser and with a momentum-consuming groove in one spot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is awake !
asciilifeform waits for mircea_popescu to eat the log
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> why not just rewrite the memory allocation engine at this point, asciilifeform << this is two degrees of magnitude easier, at least.
asciilifeform: none of it is hard.
asciilifeform: magical allocators are entirely the wrong place to begin.
asciilifeform: that is how you get shitgnomatrons in the first place
asciilifeform: (that is, by plastering over retardation with magic)
mircea_popescu: lol "dark market coupons"
asciilifeform: if, -after we nuke all of the powerranger cruft- - we end up having to go there - then we go there.
asciilifeform: not before.
mod6: makes sense.
mircea_popescu: cazalla i think she has a point actually. deed the pages, that's proof enough. and as the derps probably don't know (or don't know they should know), we might even catch a diddled page. maybe.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "as far as we know" tm, there's no effect.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: which ?
mircea_popescu: the berkley db mem allocation
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i get a ballooning all the way to ~23M during first few hours of runtime, where it stays (based on pmap data)
asciilifeform: just for bdb
mircea_popescu: i think it pre-allocates locks or something
asciilifeform: according to docs, this is not a hard necessity.
mircea_popescu: well no, just how it does it
asciilifeform: there is a hard-ram-bound option, presently unused, and entirely separate from the locks constant. see link in log.
scoopbot_revived: Former US House Speaker Indicted on Attempting to Evade Financial Surveillance http://qntra.net/2015/05/former-us-house-speaker-indicted-on-attempting-to-evade-financial-surveillance/
mircea_popescu: decimation rather old news at this point, the entire "nsa hoped and lost"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147258 << welcome to "we're improving bitcoin" bitcoin.
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 01:53:57; mod6: lolol that's horrendus. ProcessBlock leaked 26`847`114 bytes over 346`507 calls?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plz read log. these are not leaks...
mircea_popescu: im parsing!
mod6: :] i read a doc from the igprof site that had me confused on what I was looking at.
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 01:58:35; decimation: this makes me wanna burn std::lib and boost
mircea_popescu: oh okay i see.
mircea_popescu: somehow i thought we're still looking at valgrind stuffls.
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah but the interesting thing is to see how they were involved in the early creation of internet protocols
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nah this is an entirely other animal, 'igprof.' takes malloc byte counts from a living (!) process
asciilifeform: which is running still.
mircea_popescu: by now i heard the "nsa didn't want strong encryption at all, and lobbied against inclusion of anything like it were microsoft on a bender" from so many people it's settled
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00031228 = 8.1505 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i see. no clear call on whether they were leaked or not yet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: snapshot lets you take counts of live allocs as often as you like
asciilifeform: any that monotonically increases is candidate for a leak. but mod6's test (and mine) suggests that there are no longer leaks in the classical sense
asciilifeform: in that the total footprint does not exceed a certain size
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47622 @ 0.00031283 = 14.8976 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147327 << the many things alf wants to fit in his mind, and the place where we find his brain is actually 32mb memory.
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 02:39:30; asciilifeform: in fact, i want it in 32M.
decimation: they are 'leaks' in the sense that the memory is in use and isn't free
asciilifeform: decimation: 'leak' has a precise technical definition
asciilifeform: which is, memory which ought to have been freed, but can -no longer ever be-
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i want the thing to shoehorn into, e.g., 'hootoo tripmate'
asciilifeform: which comes with 32MB
mircea_popescu: and he's not into anal sex
mircea_popescu: he just likes shoving hot rods into tiny crevices.
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1NTMMD7.txt )
asciilifeform: to each man, his favourite crevice
BingoBoingo: damn too early
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-05-2015#1147415 << this is beautifully and amply documented in 'the electronic privacy papers' by (yes) schneier (pre-lobotomy)
assbot: Logged on 29-05-2015 03:35:55; mircea_popescu: by now i heard the "nsa didn't want strong encryption at all, and lobbied against inclusion of anything like it were microsoft on a bender" from so many people it's settled
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo old age problems
mircea_popescu: used to be too late.
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree
asciilifeform: (one nice thing about dead trees is that they cannot be doctored remotely)
asciilifeform: 'the great soviet encyclopaedia' and the 'corrections' mailed to owners, complete with razor for slicing out 'unpersons', notwithstanding
asciilifeform: (btw it was a very spiffy encyclopaedia and unjustly gets shat on today)
asciilifeform: incidentally, it would be a mistake to conclude that nsa was specifically raging against rsa and only it
asciilifeform: but more broadly against crypto research outside of the castle walls, as a class
BingoBoingo: Well, CPU time used to be expensive for kleptocrats too
asciilifeform: in late '80s - early '90s, laughably weak symmetric crypto (even rotor machines !) were still in use worldwide, for instance
asciilifeform: a great many ciphertrons sold by nato cocksucker nations (western europe) were actually electronicized versions of 'enigma'-style rotors
decimation: asciilifeform: your definition of 'memory leak' seems to be narrower than common parlance
asciilifeform: decimation: common parlance, as always, is uselessly broad
decimation: yes, point taken. but what do you call memory that might be a leak, or might not?
asciilifeform: decimation: you call it 'i need to instrument the thing in real time and find out'
asciilifeform: alternatively 'i need to fit the code in head'
asciilifeform: the latter is the only reasonable goal, and the only reasonable purpose of the former is to advance it
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.theamphour.com/247-an-interview-with-voja-antonic-gerontogenous-galaksija-genesis/ < that podcast is an interview with voja antonic, who invented an 8-bit 'home computer' that was published in a magazine in yugoslavia
asciilifeform: decimation: i think every sovblok pesthole had at least two dozen homebrew published z80 things
asciilifeform: (on top of the mass-produced sinclair clones)
decimation: in it, he says that he feels that code that is compiled and assembled from a higher level language (higher than assembly) isn't 'his'
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think in this case it was a z80 clone
decimation: apparently in the yugoslav case it was because it was illegal to buy a foreign device above a certain dollar value - but you could buy the parts and assemble yourself
asciilifeform: they had genuine z80 !?
asciilifeform: bought with dollars ?!
decimation: now, thinking about what the assembly from (say bitcoind) would look like - our slavic human assembler would think that whoever wrote the code was afflicted with a case of 'word salad' madness
decimation: asciilifeform: I think he said he bought with marks
decimation: and yes, apparently parts were available
asciilifeform: decimation: reading disasm of cpp crapolade is a misery
asciilifeform does it regularly, does not relish
decimation: right, so 'fits in head' fails in all languages higher than assembly, on the c machine
decimation: because it's the bedrock yo
asciilifeform: decimation has a point in that even a very trivial cpp proggy can have very peculiar manifest behaviour
asciilifeform: even aside from cryptozoological animals like gcc errata
decimation: right, the 'value' of c++ is that you can 'forget' about the crap like 'malloc' 'free' etc
decimation: but these are precisely what you want to 'fit in head'
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