Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-22 | 2015-05-24 → ↓
cazalla: no need for a gpg contract either so now who knows if okcoin doctored up a new contract or not
cazalla: instead he's got the identifying wood, yep it's wood guy analysing the signatures on each contract
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75445 @ 0.00028048 = 21.1608 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: there goes scoopbot again.. so long, fucknaut
decimation: heh $630
decimation: the ransomers are clever, not asking too much
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92400 @ 0.0002777 = 25.6595 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00029207 = 2.4972 BTC [+]
mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-05-2015#1140429 << wait... this makes it easy to factor phi
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 15:03:07; assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:29:41; mod6: take a look at this: http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?
mats: i'm not caught up on logs but someone else noticed this right
ben_vulpes: fucknaut lol
ben_vulpes: dafuq did you write that thing in, williamdunne?
ben_vulpes: whoa williamdunne not around?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell williamdunne wither scoopbot this time?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mats: with some independent verification it looks like everything up to .19 is broken as released
mats: someone tell me i'm wrong
ben_vulpes: !up pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: thanks ben_vulpes !
ben_vulpes: mats: i think the qualified are all taking the weekend off
pete_dushenski: guten morgen von zurich :)
mats: how is it possible this has escaped audit all this time
ben_vulpes: we are all lazy shitstains?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes more bloggin ? good on ya.
ben_vulpes: eh i post photos
ben_vulpes: been doing that since i was like 14 or something
ben_vulpes: have been derping at a bit about mad max but i don't know if i'll ever poop it out
ben_vulpes: it's not an entirely unredeemable piece of ableist propaganda
pete_dushenski: join the movie review club ;)
ben_vulpes: dude i don't know that i care enough
pete_dushenski: well i dunno either but the cool kids are definitely doing it.
ben_vulpes: a movie and a beer is a nice way to put my brain into idle for 3 hours but after that i don't really want to waste any more cycles on the pulp
ben_vulpes: kinda have a lot on my plate atm
ben_vulpes: plus keypocalypse
ben_vulpes: fluffypony's tripping around eu, you're derping around vbc and now eu, asciilifeform's off to the woods for the weekend, mircea_popescu's on permananent unvacation
ben_vulpes: i'm like "a long weekend! i can get some /work/ done!"
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes let's stick with our division of labour then : you write code and generally solve the world's problems...
pete_dushenski: i'll travel around, write about things, and comment on things other people are actually doing
ben_vulpes: glhf™®
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski "The Secret Life of Salvador Dalí" in english
mircea_popescu: not some derpy woman's concotion
mats: 16:20:27 <+mircea_popescu> how goes mats ? << i'm taking a two week vacation so it'll be on hold for a bit
ben_vulpes: vacation
ben_vulpes: what's that
mats: pacific beach
mats: so, phi is kept secret, but i'm not familiar enough with theory to know the implications
ben_vulpes: !up pete_dushenski
mircea_popescu: trinque meanwhile he died!
mircea_popescu: cazalla such lolcows these ppls.
mircea_popescu: <mats> i'm not caught up on logs but someone else noticed this right << not publicly.
mircea_popescu: <mats> how is it possible this has escaped audit all this time << welcome to the wunderbar world of FOSS, aka a chunk of raw meat in the sun, festering with a million grub eyes
mircea_popescu: cazalla so tl;dr : ver scammed okcoin into paying for a domain name, which is as we all know NEVER worth any money. okcoin got out of original depry phase after 3 months through eithry smarting up or running out of cash.
mircea_popescu: cripplefight/bitchfest as to what "should be" ensues.
trinque: he lives
trinque checks logs for a netsplit or something
trinque: seems like the irc part of the guy still thought he was connected to freenode
cazalla: mircea_popescu, rented it from ver.. i dunno about worthless though, most of the bitsuffix and prefixcoin sites yes but i'd think bitcoin.com has some value for just type ins if just that
cazalla: they never buy but if they do, it's in installments which they inevitably don't pay.. like btc.com
mircea_popescu: cazalla think about it. the typeins are by definition idiots.
mircea_popescu: i'd pay to be hidden from them.
cazalla: who else doesn't block ads or some pay per install type shit?
cazalla: anyway speaking of domains.. if anyone wants bitcoinprivilege.com, it expires in a few days and imma let it drop (had my fun)
mircea_popescu: i think this is the best thing to do - get a domain, have some lulz, let it drop, idiot "vultures" registe rit because WOW WAS USED!11 is VALUABLE!!1
mircea_popescu: they pay for a year or five eventually go bankrupt
mircea_popescu: aquired by further fool, idem...
mircea_popescu: eventually you end up causing > 1k worth of damage to idiot party on top of everything
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu aha. 'secret life'. got it.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: WIP, no shame in that << You followed the install guide or just (ql:quickload 'masamune)'d it?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: but come on, gimme a sandboxed lisp-ish thing, let it grab text over sockets, draw pretty pictures on a rectangle, done << hehe yep.
gabriel_laddel: just (print some-sexpr wotnet-stream) and (read wotnet-stream) all the way
gabriel_laddel: trinque: what I'd do is try to land a client that gives no shits about masamune, but needs something it can do << I plan on approaching both. But yes, to restrict oneself to those who Lisp is braindamaged - people who know nothing about computer programming notice when software works well and will happily pay for something that doesn't break, get h
gabriel_laddel: acked etc.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes in particular it's unclear to me how wise the "licenses" angle is for a serenissima derivative. while i declined to anull IP when diametric asked earlier, i am very very far from any sort of belief that the current model of that stack of stupidity has any sort of hope for survival. << i figured (perhaps stupi
gabriel_laddel: dly) that IP would take the form of gpg signatures on "i will not send this code around to anyone else", unenforceable just like the rest of the gpg contracts << Correct.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: y'can't, i know. << oh I wouldn't say that.
ben_vulpes: oh you solved drm?
gabriel_laddel: Nope, just don't sell to people who share your bits
ben_vulpes: iirc that conversation carried the context of hard guarantees.
gabriel_laddel: the DRM crowd wants is both ways - they want to sell to everyone and to have them not be able to share it
ben_vulpes: 'tis an honor and honesty thing.
mircea_popescu: interesting point this. yes the drm crowd wants contradictory things
mircea_popescu: not persuaded taking that away is enough to fix drm tho
gabriel_laddel: I don't know how to get a hard guarantee, so don't. It becomes a "state secret" sort of situation at that point.
ben_vulpes: is drm actually implementable?
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: that's where i land
gabriel_laddel: The problem with the DRM crowd is that nothing they have is valuable enough for someone to give a damn about maintaining the relationship.
mircea_popescu: this is also a point. amusingly enough, trilema makes more money than the mean of web properties, notwithstanding the fact that it's enforced very laxily.
mircea_popescu: but it isn't actually enough for to pay for me to be doing it.
mircea_popescu: on the oher hand, i guess i also would never starve.
mircea_popescu: the problem you have, however, is one of externalities. say A, B and C are your customers, and yes for them giving your stuff away is -ev if you know about it.
mircea_popescu: except if D proposes to get it for half price and not tell you, they are now +ev
mircea_popescu: and you can't find out, because they all deny.
mircea_popescu: and from D it goes to E and soon enough it's free, at which point everyone loses the -ev counter-incentive.
mircea_popescu: traditionally this is solved with watermarking, but that only works on idiots and catpictures. you can't watermark code.
gabriel_laddel: ^ actually...
mircea_popescu: (i suppose you could, if you were very devious
mircea_popescu: name a class HerpyClass in one version and Herpy_Class in another
mircea_popescu: but this is too fucking laborious.
mircea_popescu: of course you could use a "32 char hash" convention for all your entities
mircea_popescu: then just alter the salt.
mircea_popescu: ya you CAN actually watermark code.
mircea_popescu: who knew.
mircea_popescu: course, they could just edit the names to some random hash of their own.
mircea_popescu: which may be more work than they're willing to put into it, but still, would kill your drm like it kills that stupid "sound security" thing we discussed a coupla weeksa ago
gabriel_laddel: we don't need DRM, we just need to know who leaked which code
mircea_popescu: you woukdn't tho.
mircea_popescu: before i leak it i just hash all entity names with a "fuck gabby" salt
gabriel_laddel: how do you know how I've watermarked it?
mircea_popescu: i can see the 32 bit hash names.
gabriel_laddel: This isn't the only way to go about watermarking code though.
gabriel_laddel: yes, someone may discover your watermark
mircea_popescu: but code being by its nature code, i have a firm guarantee that i can wipe your watermark out.
mircea_popescu: by transforming everything that's not required by the machine.
mircea_popescu: all names hashed, all spaces removed, etc.
mircea_popescu: (comments count as spaces)
gabriel_laddel: and people are going to download and use this?
mircea_popescu: this is a drastically degraded version ofthe code tho, i readily grant
gabriel_laddel: rather than paying for my version?
mircea_popescu: yeah, the result is not worthless.
mircea_popescu: yeah, the result is not worthless. << i mean, the result of this convo, re code watermarking, even if notperfect is still not worthless.
ben_vulpes: it verges on obfuscation, and at that point one may as well deliver a binary for all the "fits in head"ness it'll have.
gabriel_laddel: if some bastardized version of our shared bits shows up a torrents site I can maintain your account with me accordingly
ben_vulpes: i may be insane but i think a large fraction of the value in delivered code is that others can read and mod it.
ben_vulpes: but it would be trivial to change one random symbol name per client license
ben_vulpes: or several, but unique across clients
ben_vulpes: and then they have the problem of "what was it before"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he would just build a list of things to change and change them all.
gabriel_laddel: sure, start there when selling to idiots, for big contracts scale accordingly
ben_vulpes: so no not impossible, or low value, or necessary even to destroy the code
mircea_popescu: entries like "add blank space after dots in following positions" or etc
gabriel_laddel: or even slightly different versions for large clients, with different libs
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i don't follow, sorry
gabriel_laddel: like actually different functions
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he would maintain a list of places where he can change things
mircea_popescu: and then just make a hash and interpret it as bitflips over that list
ben_vulpes: you mean everywhere?
mircea_popescu: bit 1 : presence or absence of space after dot at position x y
ben_vulpes: sure, if it's worth your time to resell the thing after writing a transform for it...
mircea_popescu: bit 2 : name of function x
mircea_popescu: on it goes.
mircea_popescu: then as a licensee you DONT know what you need to transform to wipe the watermark, so you have to transform... "everything". which results in a turd, which as he says, who the fuck will want that.
ben_vulpes: anyways, this is sort of a 'club' for code. it'd never stop a smart or determined attacker, but it renders the cost of the heist somewhat higher than i warrant many would pay.
mircea_popescu: seems the sort of meta-prograsmming task for which lisp was invented anyway. keep your code as a s-expr of the code you deliver.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: someone has to be out to get you at that point, and yeah
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the cost of properly stealing his code would be i guess log n
gabriel_laddel: if you end up in a war for any reason, well... idk, tough
ben_vulpes: wow how'd you make that estimate?
mircea_popescu: where n is the cost of just writing it
ben_vulpes: heh durr
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mthreat https://laalameda.wordpress.com/tag/prostibulo/ << check out the drama surrounding that derpy bar in recoletta.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://traackr.com/ dude all these web 2.1 bullshits, where you can't even establish wtf they're supposedly doing AT ALL.
gabriel_laddel: a world without the WoT is just silly
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the people here are really fucking derpy, for many reasons. one of which - all the clubs where kids go are like 100sq ft. literally.
mircea_popescu: crowded as all shit and stupid.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the garages are what, > 10k sqft. no exceptions. acreworth.
mircea_popescu: so i was all like man, ima buy a garage and make a fucking disco. own this town.
mircea_popescu: and my next through was... and in order to get in, a dude has to be in wot.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 04:44:16; mircea_popescu: " more mice than meaningful social roles. With more and more peers to defend against" << that's the hot core of failure.
gabriel_laddel: so wait, you actually bought a disco in ar?
gabriel_laddel: I fully expect WoT enabled housing and clubs btw
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel nah, i'm not buying anything until they get fucked
mircea_popescu: atm they're living in this lala-land where they're like, a country.
mircea_popescu: let income shave a zero and real estate shave two, we can talk.
mircea_popescu: not like any of them are worth even 10% of what they pretend they're getting paid today anyway.
gabriel_laddel: ugh, earth is fucking gay
gabriel_laddel: the collapse can't come quick enough
mircea_popescu: the notion that the average argentine derp is worth 1k/year in salary is ludicrous. they're white, yes, but otherwise the skilset is on par with sierra leone
mircea_popescu: rural economy, they're all peasants.
gabriel_laddel: amazing - they have a port city and two nuclear reactors
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mircea_popescu: few dollars/day is adequate.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so do the ukrainians.
gabriel_laddel: tbh, any country could really become the center of the universe provided they stop being idiots
gabriel_laddel: the bar is so very low
mircea_popescu: yet they don't think 100 bucks / month is too low, or that apartments should go for > 10k a pop.
mircea_popescu: this much is true.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.00028702 = 10.9498 BTC [-]
felipelalli: hi my gang of noise friends!! I wrote a new article in my blog: https://yeppudaproductions.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/a-fabulosa-ilha-bitcoin/ - not sure if it will be good with Google Translate but, give a try! Feel free if you want to translate / make the final review to English and publish it anywhere. See you!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38427 @ 0.00029464 = 11.3221 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29773 @ 0.00029754 = 8.8587 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50350 @ 0.00029858 = 15.0335 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35700 @ 0.00029918 = 10.6807 BTC [+] {2}
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, re your last trilema article 1 is not a prime number
mircea_popescu: it isn't ?
Apocalyptic: mircea, nah it breaks a couple of things if you count it among primes, besides not satisfying the usual definition
mircea_popescu: well it certainly ain't composite...
mircea_popescu: anyway. matter of definition
Apocalyptic: I would be curious to see any definition considering 1 as prime, it would mean you no longer have the fundamental theorem of arithmetic
Apocalyptic: and yeah it's certainly not composite either
mircea_popescu gets off his lazy butt and fixes his article
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i swear i saw this shit advertised on tv.. ctrl+w'd
cazalla: hmm some other shit called game of war with kate upton
jurov: re:watermark code - did this once, we inserted random stuff and alterations into comments, esp. javadoc
jurov: can't be really used if these are stripped
jurov: but i dunno if it was ever tested in battle
kakobrekla: >This site may not display correctly in Internet Explorer 10. We recommend using IE 9 or another browser.
kakobrekla: thats new.
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, I ran asciilifeform's litmus.py script against all the keys in my gpg 1.4 keyring and got 9 hits, the oldest of which belongs to the PGP time stamp service and was made in 1995
Hasimir: btw, that's an error rate of approximately 0.1%
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2645 @ 0.00037988 = 1.0048 BTC [-] {7}
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-05-2015#1144320 << in plain and simple asslish, when you include the multiplicative identity as a prime, you no longer have unique prime factorizations, because you can raise the identity to any power and get the same product
assbot: Logged on 23-05-2015 12:18:51; Apocalyptic: I would be curious to see any definition considering 1 as prime, it would mean you no longer have the fundamental theorem of arithmetic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 10 @ 0.14 = 1.4 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-05-2015#1143981 << It seems to me that the question is, "why have people selling computers preloaded with their software failed (Apple does this, but their computers are braindamaged, a failure by 'design')?" Interpretation: all companies in this space occupy a position in "uncanny valley". If you look at e.g
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 21:34:19; trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel "I see no reason I can't sell computers pre-loaded with Masamune." be careful, you're underestimating the colossal difficulty of this and there are old skeletons on old battlefields that thought the same. *do you have the connections to make these sales to big businesses, militaries, private schools, and so on?*
gabriel_laddel: ., the System76 site, they advertise that "Ubuntu Server is easy to set up and lightweight, including only what you need out of the box. It’s powerfully extended with thousands of commercial and open source server applications.". They have the opportunity to piss all over portability, bring something alien to earth and... they don't know what to do
gabriel_laddel: with it. As such, their product ends up as a label change from Windows/OSX to "phree1!" software. Impotence is boring, nobody cares.
gabriel_laddel: Finishing that thought: supporting everything for everyone is simply too much work. Abandoning this seriously reduces the workload on one's organization. Of course, it remains to be seen the degree to which this is a competitive advantage.
jurov: you like listening to yourself, don't you?
jurov: so...just find your niche
gabriel_laddel: jurov: I'm responding (belatedly) to log messages directed at me, apologies if it's bothering you.
jurov: no apologies needed, i just got an impression you're restating the obvious repeatedly
jurov: what is this masamune thing?
jurov: and you can sell computers preloaded without needig big investment, if you find a niche where you can considerably improve their process
jurov: even then, they'll most likely ask you about just adding it on top of osx/windows
jurov: what do you do with that?
jurov: !up gabriel_laddel ^ check the log
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00029848 = 4.328 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4891 @ 0.00033334 = 1.6304 BTC [-] {3}
gabriel_laddel: jurov: masamune is a WIP source-only linux distro with a sane set of defaults and 'scaffolding' for conducting research, business.
gabriel_laddel: and you can sell computers preloaded without needig big investment, if you find a niche where you can considerably improve their process << this is true.
gabriel_laddel: even then, they'll most likely ask you about just adding it on top of osx/windows << yeah, this is in part why I'll have to target individuals
gabriel_laddel: MP has asked that I 'get a blog', and it is probably the proper format for detailing the sales / marketing strategy. If I decide to follow up on this thread I'll do so there.
jurov: "research, businees" is very wide definition
mircea_popescu: Hasimir aha.
jurov: ! ascii_modem
jurov: !up ascii_modem
ascii_modem: ty jurov
ascii_modem: mats: my current understanding is that the turd in gpg2 is a malloc and doesn't leak phi. crashable bug though, & deserves closer look
ascii_modem: (p and q almost certainly fit in same number of 'limbs')
ascii_modem: Hasimir: did you 'litmus' for weirdmods, giant-pub-e, or both at once?
mircea_popescu: o look it's an alf!
ascii_modem: mircea_popescu: you can download the product & try dividing by your symmetric things now! no need to wait for me
mircea_popescu: ah, but if it gets added in it'll serve against future keys too
ascii_modem: on local box
ascii_modem: use python repl or whatever
ascii_modem: paste product in aha
mircea_popescu doesn't want to do this because then he'll fuck it all up.
ascii_modem: use any lang with bignums
ascii_modem: multiply back to test
ascii_modem: hard to screw up because easy to check answr
mircea_popescu: i think we're talking about different things. idea was, it'd be useful to add these in for the future keys
mircea_popescu: which may run into one of those fragged factors
ascii_modem: ah, that - later
mircea_popescu: well yes, at some point
ascii_modem: !s primorial
assbot: 0 results for 'primorial' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=primorial
ascii_modem: gotta go
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67550 @ 0.0002861 = 19.3261 BTC [-] {3}
Apocalyptic: mats, not sure what you're getting at regarding the gpg paste
Apocalyptic: are those two lines bothering you ?
Apocalyptic: t1 = mpi_alloc_secure( mpi_get_nlimbs(p) );
Apocalyptic: t2 = mpi_alloc_secure( mpi_get_nlimbs(p) );
Apocalyptic: since p has exactly the same size as q I would say it's quite ok to use the size of p for both, although it's not intuitive that it's correct
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98600 @ 0.0002825 = 27.8545 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27820 @ 0.0002853 = 7.937 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00029258 = 2.5016 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4402 @ 0.00029258 = 1.2879 BTC [+]
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