Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-19 | 2015-05-21 → ↓
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [01:51] or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance? << are you familiar with the "winkdex"?
ben_vulpes: "gavmatic" << amusing handle
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40350 @ 0.00027934 = 11.2714 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: 'But she added the uses of hashtags such as "kill all white men" on her personal account were "in-jokes and ways that many people in the queer feminist community express ourselves".' << gotta love these people. "when you make jokes i don't understand and therefore piss me off, i round up a hate squad and get you fired. when i make jokes, it's in-group solidarity and YOU CAN'T SAY ANYHTING ABOUT IT"
decimation: ben_vulpes: I'm familiar with the idea that exists. no idea how it is calculated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 347650 @ 0.00027573 = 95.8575 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: decimation: you're not allowed to know!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.00028952 = 7.0498 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: ;;seen herbijudlestoids
gribble: herbijudlestoids was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 41 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <herbijudlestoids> brb.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 175700 @ 0.00027194 = 47.7799 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sha512(the_answer.tar.gz.asc) == b0d915a9f73a21c47b0444a31cf8e3a9393e31a8cc676aec318198ff5d0f958d68756b160335d65ba7dce2e94072de19e4cc4214912f81cee121bdd6d9a4aec8, aaand you've got mail.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: MYSTERIES
hanbot: ben_vulpes yeah i'd be happy to find a better way to do that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74550 @ 0.00028616 = 21.3332 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182800 @ 0.00027053 = 49.4529 BTC [-] {4}
mats: gossipd would be pretty good for cnc servers
punkman: " allows a man-in-the-middle attacker to downgrade vulnerable TLS connections to 512-bit export-grade cryptography"
ben_vulpes: hanbot: specifically the part i found amusing was the closing </code> tag at the top of the document and the opening <code> tag at the bottom
punkman: how many downgrade attacks do they need to have before they cut out the stupid modes?
ben_vulpes: trinque: dpaste with patch vanished. plz to turdalize.
mircea_popescu: o hai alfie
mircea_popescu: whenever i sleep, he comes up with something.
trinque: ben_vulpes: oh the dieharder thing?
ben_vulpes: trinque: yeah, that
ben_vulpes: sil vous plait
trinque: real simple change
ben_vulpes: zactly what i was lookin for
trinque: the real solution is apparently unfucking dieharder more broadly
trinque: it diddles glibc internal preprocessor flags, so on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112100 @ 0.00026797 = 30.0394 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: "The key facet of the OS X audio I/O model involves predictive timing mechanisms. Instead of requiring the driver to message an application directly when an I/O cycle has completed, the timing mechanisms enable the Audio HAL to predict when the cycle will complete." << wowee
mats: writing a driver are we
ben_vulpes: not if i can't help it
ben_vulpes: adc on the cheap via mic input
mats: its not so bad
mats: ah
ben_vulpes: maybe fuck it, record an audio file and nom those bits?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ^^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00028347 = 7.0301 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: !up isaackl
isaackl: Thanks!
ben_vulpes: what brings you by?
isaackl: I was reading the epic conversation with justJanne
isaackl: Figured since I've actually read a decent amount of trilema.com and the b-a logs I should finally join the chan
ben_vulpes: o you have have ya
ben_vulpes: welcome
isaackl: Heh
isaackl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-05-2015#1130899 < I see there was already some discussion of 21.co
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:42:17; asciilifeform: re: '21' etc >> 'The cornerstone of the strategy as presented would have been the release of consumer products that would turn power from wall sockets into bitcoin through the widespread dissemination of bitcoin mining chips.' << -somebody- clearly reads the 2013 #b-a logs.
isaackl: They keep derping about 'Bitcoin is a protocol'/internet-of-things craziness
isaackl: A bit at odds with their plan to leach electricity off consumers for mining
isaackl: So I wonder
isaackl: Is there 'bitcoin is a protocol' stuff a cynical ploy
isaackl: Or do they actually believe that stuff and know are desperately looking to put their VC bezzlebucks to good use
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59385 @ 0.00027331 = 16.2305 BTC [-]
isaackl: I.e., how many of the VC-funded "crypocurrency! blockchain!" startups have realised the optimal move is simply to hoard bitcoin?
ben_vulpes: isaackl: see the copious historical threads on how fiat-backed forays into bitcoin are more-or-less raiding parties for the US Treasury
isaackl: ben_vulpes: "Buterin's waterfall", etc?
isaackl: I would still bet that 95% of bitcoin startup guys are true believers
isaackl: So who are the 5%, how has USG compromised them
ben_vulpes: the waterfall was the windmill-tilt at driving the price to zero
ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the notion of "useful idiots"?
isaackl: Yeah
isaackl: 21.co (and their a16z backers) on paper seem too smart to be useful idiots
isaackl: Ethereum, sure
ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the buckshot approach to "investment" common in startuplandia?
isaackl: And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor
isaackl: Yeah, I figured that as the most likely null hypothesis
ben_vulpes: dude the entire vc space is incredibly cynical
ben_vulpes: overt "greater fool theory" investments everywhere.
ben_vulpes: 21 doesn't pass the even-barely-making-sense test.
ben_vulpes: the days of thousand+ coin scams are nowhere near past us, they're just denominated in dollars now.
ben_vulpes: !up isaackl
ben_vulpes: get in the wot, you.
isaackl: I'm registered
punkman: 21 seems like a reasonable chumpatron to me
isaackl: Not yet rated
BingoBoingo: !up vexual
isaackl: Indeed, my guess was Balaji raised on buzzword bingo (blockchain technologee! IoT!) and then groped around for an actual plan
isaackl: Last gig was freelancing for another startup (curiously, also backed by a16z and qualcomm). Their big product was an Android emulator, lots of users, crazy schemes to try and monetize them
ben_vulpes: !getrating isaackl
ben_vulpes: !gettrust isaackl
assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user isaackl: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=ben_vulpes&to=isaackl | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/isaackl/
ben_vulpes: !rate isaackl 1 new startupfounder
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/db51e5827faed886
isaackl: "cynical" but also, in the long-run, impractical
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.isaackl.1:d0dd779d88427861d58d13a6e07d75fbf1db8ea67e2735938e6bce91f97a517f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for isaackl with note: new startupfounder
isaackl: Thanks!
ben_vulpes: easy come, easy go.
ben_vulpes: and what are you working on now?
ben_vulpes: evening, Adlai
isaackl: Though I'm not a "startup founder"
Adlai: but are you a ninja?
isaackl: I'm just derping around in Thailand, riding motorbikes, and reading up on finance, cryptography and bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124000 @ 0.00028202 = 34.9705 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: sounds like quite the life
isaackl: It's pretty good!
isaackl: End-goal is to build a legit bitcoin biz but I've read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0 so I'm not rushing into anything
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118966 @ 0.00028265 = 33.6257 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: and to think that was written in 2012
ben_vulpes: isaackl: what kinds of businesses do you have your eyes on?
isaackl: Well, taking the thesis that the real value of bitcoin is as an inflation hedge, and that funds will increasingly flow into bitcoin as people realise this
isaackl: (i.e., after a few more reward halvings mean less coin is being dumped on the market by miners, speculators have been burned enough times that more coin is held by long-term investors and volatility drops a bit)
isaackl: Sensible bitcoin businesses are those that increase the value of btc as an investment (not user adoption or transaction volume or anything like that
ben_vulpes: wait whut
ben_vulpes: no no man no
ben_vulpes: a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners
ben_vulpes: nothing more, nothing less
mircea_popescu: i see this is becoming a dailything now.
ben_vulpes: nobody can do anything to increase the value of btc as an investment. it's here, it's queer, nobody's changing it.
ben_vulpes: where'd the 55 yo steelworker get off to
ben_vulpes: ;;seen justJanne
gribble: justJanne was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <justJanne> Anyway, I'm sorry, but I don't have much time arguing with people like you stupidly about fictional politics.
mircea_popescu blames ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: i blame your keymageddon
isaackl: Hypothetical example: a hyper-secure bitcoin wallet that's easy enough for a Warren Buffet to use. Maybe not actually possible, but if it existed, much more wealth would flow into bitcoin, no?
mircea_popescu: in unexplectedly related lulz :
mircea_popescu: From: junior@e-technik.uni-rostock.de
mircea_popescu: Subject: Improve potency and gain more size
ben_vulpes: it's late, sense of humor got burned out at tango tonite
mircea_popescu: isaackl you ever read the causes/purposes article ?
isaackl: mircea_popescu: yeah
mircea_popescu: so why are you derping about various obscure purposes ? let it be.
mircea_popescu: if you can do something useful, do it. if not, relax and watch the show.
ben_vulpes attempts to rerax
isaackl: OK, concrete idea I had
mircea_popescu: no, but see... you ever read the ideas article ?
isaackl: Which one?
mircea_popescu: trick question, wasn't one per se. but the idea is why the fuck do you think you're having ideas ?
isaackl: OK, no ideas.
mircea_popescu: leaving alone how "concrete idea" is a contradiction in terms.
mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
isaackl: This is indeed why I spend my time right now just researching
mircea_popescu: !gettrust isaackl
assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user isaackl: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=isaackl | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/isaackl/
mircea_popescu: do you know how to self-voice even ?
mircea_popescu: !up isaackl
isaackl: Cheers
mircea_popescu: pm assbot !up
isaackl: OK, unlike justJanne I'm very willing to have my youthful derpiness forcefully removed
isaackl: Why I came here
ben_vulpes: !up Vexual
mircea_popescu: what are you doing now, stalking Germany ?
trinque: ben_vulpes: hoard ye all PDFs that can be found!
ben_vulpes: when did vexual get unbanned?
mircea_popescu: when jurov bitched.
isaackl: My reasoning was, there's multiple candidates to unseat the USD. RMB, Gold, BTC
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah i'm going to find her photo and then doxx her
mircea_popescu: isaackl what's this, like an exam of sorts ? the heavenly throne is holding a vote to replace the old usd with a spiffy young fellow ?
isaackl: Currency is a schelling point. People with lots of USD start buying bitcoin, eventually there's a runaway effect
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes intel has her photo, at 16 and current. looks a little tranny.
ben_vulpes: poor thing, no wonder she's spending her life in my little pony chans
isaackl: No, just the aggregate decisions of people with lots of USD. If 60% choose to buy gold and 40% choose to buy btc
mircea_popescu: it's the blessing of suck, you know ? very beautiful (and i mean, VERY, stunner beautiful) chicks develop early adolescence dementia because of all the insane sexual attention they get and don't really want, need, or know what to do with.
mircea_popescu: very smart chicks develop the same, because of the same, only different but in the end the same.
mircea_popescu: adults are fucking perverts.
mircea_popescu: isaackl the idea being that your representation of this thing is manufactured for the needs of representation. it's what they call a didacticism, with no actual connection to reality. bad way to think.
ben_vulpes ponders
isaackl: Then gold will quite possibly win the runaway effect. The gold mining rate is a constant 1.5% or so a year, so post a few more reward halvings bitcoin has the advantage
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 357233 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1614 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47459292440.3 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227
mircea_popescu: negative now huh ?
mircea_popescu: isaackl come up with the formula for bitcoin inflation, i'm curious.
ben_vulpes: "this coordinate system is highly unportable, and it always ended up being an intermediate stage to some other coordinate system. Thus this coordinate system has been exorcised and should be avoided in the future. JPM 1-29-91" << i am actually growing to love software archaeology
isaackl: mircea_popescu: OK, to connect it to reality. Sovereign wealth fund, has a lot of USD. Realises USG is shaky and wants to diversify. How do they decide how much to allocate to gold or bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yup. cultural archeology is the superset, antrhopology being the application. it's what the wise do with their time.
mircea_popescu: isaackl seriously, print out the formula.
mircea_popescu: (it's not really that hard)
isaackl: mirce_popescu: 50% mined between 2009 and first reward halving, halves after each reward halving
isaackl: What?
ben_vulpes: my problem is finding the things that fit in my head
mircea_popescu: that's not the formula.
isaackl: mircea_popescu: k
isaackl: What is this, a Google interview?
mircea_popescu: Idt = Mdt / _M3 + C%dt.
mircea_popescu: and now we read it out loud :
ben_vulpes: this is ASSETTTTTS
mircea_popescu: bitcoin inflation over an interval equals the mined coins over that interval divided by the average monetary mass during that interval plus the percent change over that interval.
mircea_popescu: Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227 << that thing is the last term.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin nominal inflation may be whatever it may be, but its REAL inflation is always zero.
ben_vulpes: what is "real" inflation?
mircea_popescu: obviously before bitcoin nobody even understood that there is ANOTHER kind of real inflation, and thus therefore the real inflation from before is actually yet another kind of nominal inflation
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes.
isaackl: Because the mining rate is known in advance and already priced in?
ben_vulpes: difference between what one expects the monetary base to do and what it's actually doing?
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this given here to underscore the fact that this shit is really fucking complex, to the point of excluding most specialists, let alone amateurs.
mircea_popescu: isaackl no. vice-versa
mircea_popescu: because IT prices YOU in.
isaackl: Damn you're like a Zen master. You need a stick
mircea_popescu: i am just very old.
isaackl: Anyway, all I was getting to is that in the long run, even gold is softer than bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00029184 = 18.561 BTC [+] {3}
isaackl: And in the universe where everyone with USD is a hyper-rational optimal investor, bitcoin takes over.
ben_vulpes: in all universes.
ben_vulpes: there is no better money.
isaackl: Clearly not this universe. And gold has the advantage that people have millenia of experience securing physical things. Bitcoin can be more secure than gold, if you know what you're doing. But people lose wallets, forget passwords, choose crackable keys, etc
isaackl: Not a problem with bitcoin
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, for the journos and other news fiends watching the log : i came to a resolution of a major sticking point re the rsa factorisation thing, large article coming in a few hours.
ben_vulpes: ah shit
ben_vulpes: i was going to go to sleep
isaackl: But is a problem for people considering using it.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you goitta sleep sometime
ben_vulpes: isaackl: gold has this vault problem.
isaackl: ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: big, obvious, easily walked off with by your local government.
isaackl: ben_vulpes: yeah. another pro to btc
ben_vulpes: assuming that you can even amass a quantity of the real stuff, and aren't playing with paper.
ben_vulpes: besides, securing physical things comes down to guns.
mircea_popescu: the monopoly on violence problem makes everyone unable to actually hold gold.
ben_vulpes: yeah, that.
isaackl: What I'm getting to is, if you can make a secure wallet that's easy to use for, say, the peter schiffs of the world, that increases the demand for bitcoin, no?
ben_vulpes: they have staff.
ben_vulpes: if they want btc, they get btc.
mircea_popescu: isaackl you really think i depend on you to make me the tools that the universe requires for my survival ?
ben_vulpes: what's scaring people off (which is unimportant, but let's pretend for a moment) is the horrendous shitpile that the bitcoin source actually is.
mircea_popescu: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ?
mircea_popescu: i.... i imagine they know that.
isaackl: mircea_popescu: no.
isaackl: To be clear, I wasn't proposing to make such a thing.
ben_vulpes: isaackl: your 'wallet' experiment also suffers from the inescapable existence of ease of use and security of cryptographic goods at opposite poles.
isaackl: ben_vulpes: indeed. even smart people fuck this shit up
ben_vulpes: and /routinely/.
ben_vulpes: the only way to get good at it is to do it.
ben_vulpes: repeatedly.
mircea_popescu: that's what the abbot told the virgin, at any rate.
ben_vulpes: as with dance, sex, wine, etc. skin in the game as a prerequisite for competence.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28720 @ 0.00029211 = 8.3894 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: !up isaackl
isaackl: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ? < Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more
isaackl: Improve security of cryptographic goods, demand for bitcoin goes up
ben_vulpes: dude it takes a day to set up a rock solid btc infrastructure
ben_vulpes: if you don't have a day to do it correctly, you don't need to be in bitcoin badly enough
mircea_popescu: https://8ch.net/btc/res/245.html << pls tell me dank of tardstalk.org fame is not now an internet meme !?
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139747 <<< i dunno but i think anything grown in your backyard has you eating as a king, not a poor pleb
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 01:11:02; BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!
ben_vulpes: "generas unique design makes it possible to make logic changes and feature enhancements to it on the fly without disrupting day-to-day operations of your users" << asciilifeform but how?
mircea_popescu: cazalla agreed.
mircea_popescu: !up rdymac__
isaackl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139957 < Sure. And there aren't many rational reasons for people to hand over their bitcoins. (While most of the economy runs on fiat, makes sense to spend fiat and hoard btc). Gambling sites seem like one of the few options
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 07:23:40; ben_vulpes: a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners
isaackl: SDICE, BBET, etc
isaackl: Gambling is rational if it's one of the rare games like poker where you can get an edge. Hard to design games like that, you need to convince the fish they can win too
mircea_popescu: sdice was -ev
isaackl: mircea_popescu: yeah. In which case you're basically selling entertainment
davout: mircea_popescu: unless martingale1!!1
mircea_popescu: davout o right you are :p
davout: which goes back to convincing the fish they can get an edge
davout: imo it's the only thing that makes the dice games profitable, the endless supply of martingale-chumps
isaackl: Yeah. Poker is great at that, fishy play gets you the occasional exciting big win. Fishy play is -ev of course, but high variance
isaackl: So on a table with 2 sharks and 6 fish, 2 fish will win a lot, the sharks and house will consistently make a little, and 4 fish will lose
isaackl: Online poker eventually saw an accumulation of sharks and the fish left
isaackl: And some fish just love to gamble. I used to do marketing for the mobile-slots chumpatron, humorously people pay real money but they can't cash out real money
isaackl: But the virtual gambling kick is enough
mircea_popescu: davout hey, the first math class that pays for itself.
ben_vulpes: everyone in that class fails out
mircea_popescu: isaackl wait. the stupid "X Y Z" themed slot machines in ipad store ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18934 @ 0.00028905 = 5.4729 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's how you run a real school.
isaackl: mircea_popescu: yep. Android only these days
mircea_popescu: dude how the fuck does this stupid shit work
mircea_popescu: i've been trying to figure this out.
isaackl: Biggest money-making gaming genre on the play store
mircea_popescu: so... why not just you know, play a free one ?!
mircea_popescu: why not draw the thing on paper and win all the time ?
mircea_popescu: my mind was so blown...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 174000 @ 0.00027518 = 47.8813 BTC [-]
isaackl: My personal theory was it's similar psychology to RPGs, clicker games, even strategy games a little bit. You're constantly chasing advnatages which let you chase advantages, etc
isaackl: So people playing slots aren't trying to win so they can buy stuff. They want to win so they get more gambling tokens
mircea_popescu: eh i give up.
cazalla: they tried to ban em down under but no luck
cazalla: pokies ipad games are popular with the kids though
cazalla: must be a different type of addict who plays them, i can't imagine your typical gambler playing them seeing there is no moment of win/loss
isaackl: mircea_popescu: what can I say, maybe they have no purpose, only dopamine causes
mircea_popescu: cazalla ikr?
mircea_popescu: isaackl i think they're too advanced for my puny brain
mircea_popescu: the brancusi of digital.
isaackl: We targeted women in their 50s and 60s in places like Florida, if that makes sense
isaackl: FB lets you do things like target cigarette smokers. Who says it's not useful...
mircea_popescu: so you used to do what, marketing for this ?
isaackl: Yeah
mircea_popescu: how would you like to do some marketing for me then ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60050 @ 0.00027518 = 16.5246 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: 13 keys so far btw.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88850 @ 0.00028146 = 25.0077 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: any interesting ones?
ben_vulpes: lol you thought bitcoin needed space
ben_vulpes: a leading poker bot takes 12 TB of compressed data
mircea_popescu: anyway, coupla hours.
isaackl: mircea_popescu: very much so.
mircea_popescu: ok, here's the deal : bitbet has a referral system, where one gets 1% of the value of bets made by referrals.
mircea_popescu: you get a 1btc budget, your job is to get > 1 btc in referrals over a month.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.00028692 = 6.6135 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: in here dood.
isaackl: ok. online marketing for this kind of thing is usually about finding an under-exploited channel.
isaackl: what are people currently doing for bitbet referrals,how much low-hanging fruit has been plucked?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88355 @ 0.00028146 = 24.8684 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i dun think anyone did much of anything.
Adlai: isaackl: the most successful referrals are in useful banners, eg http://www.btcalpha.com/bitbet/1128/
mircea_popescu: i would guess 90% of all marketing is happening on 8chan via mike_c s banners
isaackl: The only banner I see links to trilema? But yeah, ifhe 8chan ads are fairly new, there's probably a ton of optimising can be done
mircea_popescu: well reload.
mircea_popescu: and they are 5 days old or so.
mircea_popescu: and yes there's probably a ton of work that can be done. just needs someone competent to do it.
isaackl: Then most certainly yes.
mircea_popescu: aite, addy ?
isaackl: email or btc?
mircea_popescu: btc, for your budget.
adlai: will establish the referral cookie for a month or so
isaackl: 1Bum3oXxbCLUg54snyL6rmBz7vRBuPUr6G
mircea_popescu: aite you'll have it later today.
isaackl: Cool!
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 07:29:53; mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
adlai: the world according to 1bum
isaackl: mircea_popescu: and how do you prefer to communicate? all through the channel?
mircea_popescu: i prefer to not communicate lol. do your job, report the methodology and results once you're done. you got a blog ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89600 @ 0.00028802 = 25.8066 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73171 @ 0.00028069 = 20.5384 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: holy shit on a fuckstick.
cazalla: hey isaackl, i know this one weird tip if you need some help
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123100 @ 0.0002927 = 36.0314 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: mike_c tyvm!
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu 0.5%
mircea_popescu: oh right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00028246 = 12.8237 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26577 @ 0.00028246 = 7.5069 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell vexual what's the story there ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00028246 = 14.4196 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: feel free to put it in... uh... hn, lmao.
davout: mircea_popescu: it's on hn, let's watch the ranking pattern
davout: off to read it
mircea_popescu: o, it's glorious.
davout: so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00028246 = 6.6519 BTC [-]
fluffypony: davout: that was a great post!
kakobrekla: davout> so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life" < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPyFRa39AMk
mircea_popescu: better to say it wrong than eat it wrong amirite
davout: kakobrekla: kek
kakobrekla: since I saw this clip, i always try to mispronounce it, if i remember on time.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell justjanne Raphael Nicolai Fabian Randschau (Uni Kiel) <rra-squee-informatik.uni-kiel.de> top keks.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
kakobrekla: and this is the hn effect, supposedly http://i.imgur.com/AXyjE0h.png
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171573 @ 0.00027958 = 47.9684 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla on what, logs ?
kakobrekla: logs mostly but other stuff that runs on same box is included
davout: number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1
mircea_popescu: you dont say.
davout: some guy from gnupg
davout: "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"
davout: "Apple Product Security"
mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.
davout: but these are keys that simply -declare- this as an UID right?
mircea_popescu: dja want me to publish the actual archive as spit out by the test ?
davout: not sure i'd know how to exploit it
davout: might be interesting to have a table with the fingerprints matched with the uids you list
mircea_popescu: kinda left it as it is so people can independently check.
mircea_popescu: it's all a pgp keyserver archive download + python script away
davout: yea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44790 @ 0.00027518 = 12.3253 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133494 @ 0.00027886 = 37.2261 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76355 @ 0.00027886 = 21.2924 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 17:54:59; ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu very relevant >> http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/techreports/2004/cacr2004-01.pdf
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i keep various cheap gadgets around that will eat pdfs. you can get chinese printer that will, etc. (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: item in question treated rsa weakening from the use of peculiarly large exponents.
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:51:47; davout: number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:52:46; davout: "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"
Apocalyptic: (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form) // except postscript maybe
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: postscript suffers from precisely same problems as pdf (which is, after all, a minor variation on the former)
Apocalyptic: yeah, i'm not saying it's saner
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 288400 @ 0.00027025 = 77.9401 BTC [-] {5}
asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones
asciilifeform: i presently suspect that there are versions of sks (and/or other pgptronics) which will stupidly display a legit fp for the magical keys.
asciilifeform: aaand we're up to 19.
kakobrekla: are you going to automate the display of results or will it be a full time job?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what do you think.
kakobrekla: you know me, 230v mains.
asciilifeform: and yes, changes are coming.
asciilifeform: (such as 10x speedup, new tests - e.g., pollard-rho; etc)
asciilifeform: other observations - some of the items on the target list are of obvious diddlomatic interest; others are probably humint targets - some of them, rather intriguing, e.g., mr robert j hansen of http://sixdemonbag.org/bio.xhtml
asciilifeform: and the various 'pirate party' folks, perhaps, will take some pleasure in seeing their names in this list.
asciilifeform: and how many of the data points are smokescreen ?
asciilifeform: (picture the stereotypical schoolboy who logs in to change his marks. does he change his and chums' alone? only if idiot)
kakobrekla: nah, taking in account the latest development, cosmic ray can alter all grades from a single student.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00027886 = 16.2297 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw.
mircea_popescu: any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all.
asciilifeform: mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ?
mircea_popescu: it would seem so.
mircea_popescu: which... yeah.
asciilifeform: it still frags like hell though
asciilifeform: but 'unfrags' to keep pace if you're on a real computer
asciilifeform: this is still not victory, but at least not runaway fandango
mircea_popescu: it's pretty close.
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140245 <<< the correct way to perform such an attack would be to also generate a short keyid collision
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 12:54:33; asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones
asciilifeform: davout: i was wondering same thing, as you might expect. anyone got an ancient copy of pgp for winblows handy ?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw. << thx!
davout: !s short id
assbot: 1 results for 'short id' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=short+id
asciilifeform: betcha some of the magickeys show a legit evil32.com
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ? << correct.
mircea_popescu: THATs what needs to be tested. pgpwin and what else was there ?
mircea_popescu: and the apple one
mircea_popescu: we'll get jack with the linux versions
mod6: and 19 broken moduli nao
mod6: wow.
davout: aaand the HN story is at... wait for it... 3 points
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that the 'apple product safety' thing is a target. that is, folks filing bug reports 'confidentially'
mircea_popescu: davout aww!
mircea_popescu: does it have negvotes ?
asciilifeform: apple, afaik, doesn't sell a pgptron
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a pgp for mac thing yes
davout: mircea_popescu: i don't know, i really don't hang around hn very much
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ^
asciilifeform: other habitual mac users ?
asciilifeform: diametric ?
davout: mircea_popescu: on osx you can either build GPG, or use this macgpg stuff, i use the former, so can't really help here
asciilifeform will ask around
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all. << nothing specific yet. although the charts are interesting. Process Switches hit 4k before going to zero.
mircea_popescu: davout apparently "it’s impossible to downvote anything on Hacker News". i guess story just isn't interesting.
asciilifeform: should've mentioned japanese toilets, perhaps
asciilifeform: then it'd be a mega-hit.
assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 19:23:18; davout: HN now displays "Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013)" higher than this
mircea_popescu: anyway, enough stuff in phuctor's wake to keep dozens of crypto researchers busy for monthys if not years.
mircea_popescu: it's the equivalent of a tractor that just plowed through virgin land. all those delicious worms!
mircea_popescu: davout 138.More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations (trilema.com)3 points by davout 2 hours ago | discuss << it's greyed out, so i guess it got neg'd somehow.
davout: scam
mircea_popescu: cat trilema-20may2015.txt | grep -c "more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations"
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't be too worried about it, it's probably on everyone's im
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 35015 @ 0.00009 = 3.1514 BTC [-]
davout: asciilifeform: any recommendations on general purpose cryptography books?
asciilifeform: davout: there isn't terribly much good material other than the original 'red book' by - yes - schneier
asciilifeform: (before they scooped out his brain)
asciilifeform: 'applied cryptography' 2nd ed.
davout: yeah, i saw this one
asciilifeform: there is another mega-book:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57717 @ 0.00027414 = 15.8225 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: crc's 'handbook of applied cryptography'
asciilifeform: ^ all of the chapters on www
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree, it is very nice.
davout: i can't read books on a screen
asciilifeform: get the tree.
davout: yes
asciilifeform: more or less the entire rest of the library on this subject is either pulp for lusers, or very narrow treatises for specialists
davout: gonna get the schneier one to get started
asciilifeform: (mainly bound journal reprints)
asciilifeform: not a bad place to start. but very bad place to end.
mircea_popescu: iguess someone really should write a reasonable, 500 page, college degree (any field, proper) required to read crypto overview
mircea_popescu: it's damned time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from 2013 ?!
asciilifeform: hey it's 'news' !
asciilifeform: hn thinks so, no ?
asciilifeform: unless i somehow picked up wrong link
asciilifeform: yes, 2013.
mircea_popescu: i guess they're slow.
mircea_popescu: any bets on whether bock shows up incidentally ?
davout: so wrt the schneier book i see 'second edition', and '20th anniversary edition'
mircea_popescu: get the 90s version.
mircea_popescu: i don't remember what all he retardified post 2004
asciilifeform: davout: i cannot comment re: whether 20th anniversary thing censored any of the goodies from 2nd ed, or added nonsense. but it strikes me as likely.
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 18:42:29; jurov: both sides of that discussion made me cringe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118194 @ 0.0002731 = 32.2788 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude that zdnet article was probably the most idiotic thing i read today.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is everyone involved on ?
asciilifeform: 'debunked, rsa not broken' << 'this thread is about kittenz' (TM)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they readily admit "we took register piece and translated"
asciilifeform: at least spelled name this time.
mircea_popescu: is that thing even read ?
asciilifeform: kaspersky? yes, read.
mircea_popescu: threatpost.ru ? 0 comments everywhere, i never heard of it etc.
asciilifeform: before long, herr böck will claim that he tipped us off to the mess of diddled keys on sks.
mircea_popescu: "Dennis Fisher · Michael Mimoso · Christopher Brook · Brian Donohue · Anne Saita."
mircea_popescu: say wut ? seems random spamsite, but in russian.
asciilifeform: tentacle of kaspersky iirc.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/hac << i have this one too lol
asciilifeform: mod6: probably the most 'serious' general-purpose encyclopaedic work on crypto.
mod6: yeah, it's solid
asciilifeform: at least, in the public.
asciilifeform: ^ him, i think.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139507 << "a state of anarchy" is even better. like this glass being full of empty.
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:09:47; decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-05-2015#1138061 < anarchy is retarded
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139512 << i am too nonconformist to hang out with you guys anymore.
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:13:16; jurov: ANARCHY MUST BE ENFORCED AT ALL COSTS
vampyr: true anarchy comes from within outside!
mod6: :]
mircea_popescu: shit being emo gets boring real quick.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139522 << it's a thing, yo. the history of "nordic countries" (post roman empire, because pre that history consisted of being pretty much the pasthun of the time, raped with a sharpened stake covered in burning greek fire) is like so :
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:21:04; decimation: mircea seems to credit the german geography for why 'nordic freedom' 'seems to work'. but I suggest it is the people themselves - having been beaten by the romans for centuries, and then forced by the church to mate outside their immediate family, they developed a concept of 'kinship' beyond L2 cousins
mircea_popescu: a) god hath decided to give free herring out in the scania sounds. consequently, swedes now have a kingdom
mircea_popescu: b) god hath moved on, so now five centuries of hard labour and being basically as dirt-poor and pan troglodytus as the russian mujik.
mircea_popescu: c) god comes back in the shape of Kennedy and the Fulda gap. herring is being airlifted into berlin
mircea_popescu: d) god shapeshifts into a large oil find
mircea_popescu: e) that's going away. we are here.
mircea_popescu: for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.
mircea_popescu: predictably, it'll be something utterly retarded like "stalin did it wrong, and marx was nordiccounntries.jpg anyway".
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea what west germany was thinking when it allowed the scumbags to join civilisation without first hanging every "intellectual" of the eastern school.
mircea_popescu: instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".
mircea_popescu: one only needs to look at the czech commies post ru invasion to understand exactly how abject people actually are.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:17; asciilifeform: Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conver
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:18; asciilifeform: ght run as follows: Today we've got a friendship evening with shit-eaters', or Today we're having some shit-eaters to dinner. Prepare a suitable menu'.'
mircea_popescu: (for the record : the life of a smerd, like that of a kholop, was worth 5 grivna. that's about enough metal to make a decent shovel - roughly speaking the smartphone of the time)
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 21:22:35; *: ascii_field pictures slaves sweating
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:35:12; williamdunne: Should be 24/7, on an actual server and is cloaked
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:45:37; trinque: I'll negrate people who abuse it
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:50:05; jurov: if someone uses temporary voice to resubmit existing deed 1000 times, deedbot has nothing to say about it?
mircea_popescu: !up Helvetik
Helvetik: Hi, Bonjour !
mircea_popescu: hello. who're you ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139657 << it would, and the whole thing's about bastards in the wild.
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 23:33:00; asciilifeform: (this could underplay the effect of 'bastards' however)
Helvetik: Sorry, I juste speak a little english. I'm here for to talk with davout
fluffypony: abonjour
fluffypony: bonjour
fluffypony: that thing
davout: Helvetik: if you really don't speak that much english mebbe join #bitcoin-fr, will be less painful for you :-)
fluffypony is on a train to Paris
fluffypony: you must attend!
davout: fluffypony: on IRC? nice! still up for the monero meeting tomorrow?
fluffypony: davout: Thalys have on-board wifi :)
davout: fluffypony: the electric plugs are there only for the show on regular french trains
davout: so wifi is nice
mircea_popescu: fluffypony how're you enjoying yurp ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: it's been fun
fluffypony: had a meetup in Brussels last night
fluffypony: and a bunch of Romanians came
mircea_popescu: anyone smart ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139680 << speaking of this, am I the only one nonplussed by all this "we use <<best practices>> fixed exponent" bs ? it's an unavoidalbe magic number , okay, but it's tyhe sort that should eminently be a knob for the user. a proper gpg would have e user-settable at the key generation phase (with 65536+1 as a default, sure)
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:29:41; mod6: take a look at this: http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?
mircea_popescu: maybe i wanna use e = 2686977, whose business is it.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: nah, some interesting guys but they're all just trying to do gambling stuff in Romania and elsewhere
fluffypony: so nothing mindblowing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100200 @ 0.00026766 = 26.8195 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28369 @ 0.00027388 = 7.7697 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> maybe i wanna use e = 2686977, whose business is it. << i was looking at this yesterday too, had the same impression. mpi_set_ui( e, 65537);
mod6: by the end of the night i was digging into prime selection. gnupg does fast fermat checks in several places, but im starting to wonder if it wouldn't also be benificial to just check against a list of "Carmichael numbers"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95300 @ 0.00028287 = 26.9575 BTC [+]
mod6: lol, or why not just use Miller-Rabin instead?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89500 @ 0.00028501 = 25.5084 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: that's probabilistic tho
mod6: oh it might actually do this somewhere anyway... there are some references in the docs... although i haven't found it in the code yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155050 @ 0.00029236 = 45.3304 BTC [+] {4}
mod6: ahh, i see, you gotta pick the bases for a randomly.
mod6: derp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33031 @ 0.00028287 = 9.3435 BTC [-]
mats: unemployed life so good
mats: going to a music festival this weekend then san diego
mats: looking forward to pounding trustfund hotties on drugs
mircea_popescu: tape it.
mats: lol.
mod6: maybe its this is_prime function
mod6: lol, they used to have this "rabin-miller" function in the first import of gnupg (as so it's dated) that takes a paremeter "MPI n" and then does nothing and returns 0; http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=blob;f=cipher/primegen.c;h=07d83d8314d8588e4f425a4d171fc41ebb3be4a9;hb=5393dd53c5e06f0458949217317601b2eaed8350G
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?
Naphex: mircea_popescu: a good attacker will do discovery, and map everything ahead of time. while there are some pluses into deviating from the toolset. they mostly come from building your own. which is going to end up better fitted for the task
Naphex: and you more knowledgeable into what runs where
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73749 @ 0.00026665 = 19.6652 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026361 = 5.2722 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up Hasimir welcome to the biggest* best** irc channel!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107950 @ 0.0002616 = 28.2397 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103300 @ 0.00025942 = 26.7981 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: Naphex this was more re nsa diddled hardware.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141849 @ 0.00026721 = 37.9035 BTC [+] {2}
Hasimir: danielpbarron, cheers ... you named it assbot?
danielpbarron: no; I think kako did that
Hasimir: well, whatever floats his boat I guess
danielpbarron: I noticed you've got a +4 in my L2 and a 0 in assbot's
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:42:58; decimation: so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139712 << atm it's just weird. i have nfi what that'd do.
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:41:46; mats: gpg is broke
Hasimir: hmm, oh ratings ... I tend not to rate bots, not even mine
mircea_popescu: !gettrust Hasimir
assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Hasimir: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=Hasimir | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Hasimir/
Hasimir: and this key crap better not invalidate my pyme work
Hasimir: that would be such a let down
mircea_popescu: your what ?
Hasimir: I ported the python bindings for gpgme to py3
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139728 << there's a reason nobody (tm) is using it.
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:47:39; mod6: holy shit gnupg v2 is bizzare! X_X
mircea_popescu: da fuck knows what's in that code.
mircea_popescu: Hasimir oh.
Hasimir: meh, 2.0 is such a waste of time ... 2.1, however, comes with all manner of entertainment
mircea_popescu: Hasimir mind giving a self-intro for they such as myself that apparently know you from 3rd parties but otherwise not ?
Hasimir: it's currently in a branch of git.gnupg.org/gpgme (to be merged with master when I finish cleaning up the last of the ancient examples)
Hasimir: assuming rsa isn't screwed by then, of course ;)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139742 << eh, the mit. about as relevant for tech as uzbekistan for banana pies.
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:58:59; pete_dushenski: and in other news, livejasmin is accepting btc, ripple raised $28 mn, and bitcoin is "leaderless" now : http://www.technologyreview.com/news/537486/leaderless-bitcoin-struggles-to-make-its-most-crucial-decision/
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139775 << ahahaha wait seriously !? because of teh rsa ?
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 01:19:10; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so i walk into $redacted on monday and folks compare me to pons & fleischmann. so there'll be teasing, yes.
mircea_popescu: !up Hasimir
Hasimir: no, not seriously, there's a big difference between some bunch of people with crap entropy sources and rsa being borked
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: Hasimir: who said it was borked ?
ascii_field: other than idiot 'journalists'
Hasimir: though it it turns out to be the "you must all use openpgp cards" crowd I will laugh and laugh ...
mircea_popescu has trouble following .
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140455 << was on your site. and also see 'specificity of diddling' threads here.
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 16:13:53; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?
danielpbarron: i have one of those cards; never used the thing
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, a ref. to a particularly hard-line stance taken by some people on gnupg-users
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes but where ;/
mircea_popescu: gimme an actual keyword
ascii_field: 'how to airgap, practical guide' i think it was.
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, well, listing a hundred and something frequent posters to gnupg-users with the statement "we probably have your private key" does imply a certain degree of breakage
mircea_popescu: o was it.
ascii_field: 'Just as long as you actually know what you're doing, this sort of arrangement increases the costs of attacking your setup astronomically...'
ascii_field: but iirc there was another
mircea_popescu: senile dementia is this sad situation when you recall what you said but not exactly nor where.
mircea_popescu: apparently some get it in their 30s ;/
ascii_field: conan doyle in the 'sherlock holmes' stories described this
ascii_field: sorta the mental equivalent of a crowded hard disk. not quite same as senility
mircea_popescu: let us hope so.
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, take up chess, it helps keep you sharp(er)
Hasimir: I returned to playing in order to make a good habit of it by the time senility struck in order to stave it off ... then discovered that years of IT logic paid off in unexpected ways
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00029399 = 11.9948 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: meh, chess. i'd rather play hanoi towers.
mircea_popescu: i didn't know you were on reddit
ascii_field: was ages ago, when it was actually readable ('06-'08 or so)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field got a moment to peer review article ?
ascii_field: out here without keys though
mircea_popescu: it'll wait.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00028091 = 5.6182 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Some widely deployed RSA implementations choke on big RSA public exponents. E.g. the RSA code in Windows (CryptoAPI, used by Internet Explorer for HTTPS) insists on encoding the public exponent within a single 32-bit word; it cannot process a public key with a bigger public exponent."
mircea_popescu: birdy says.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ^
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ahahahahhahahaha.
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall seeing a step-by-two dance ? aha ?
ascii_field: anyone know a winblowistic implementation of pgp ? as in, actually using microshit's api
mircea_popescu: our luzers are on windoze 10/10.
ascii_field: well aye, but traditional gpg built for mingw doesn't do this
mircea_popescu: at least not that any of us've noticed.
mircea_popescu: 25 ppm occurences can very well be a tiny pore in an otherwise solid implementation.
ascii_field: the lost world of winblows pgptrons, closed-source crypto, etc. will have to be vivisected, likely
ascii_field: unrelated,
mircea_popescu: o look at that, quotes me ?!
mircea_popescu: i have nfi.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70850 @ 0.00029439 = 20.8575 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 06:57:41; isaackl: And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor
ben_vulpes: claims to have read the logs, even!
mircea_popescu: links to mpoe-pr on forum, even.
mircea_popescu: dude, i remember the time back in 2012 when the pressure cooker wasn't on yet and all sorts of people didn't appear retarded.
mircea_popescu: everyone's a dancer while sitting down.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8182 @ 0.00028793 = 2.3558 BTC [-]
mike_c: <isaackl> Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more << hm, how does the utility of the F35 compare to how much has been spent on it?
mircea_popescu: is that thing even built yet ?
mircea_popescu: "undergoing testing and final development by the United States"
mircea_popescu: mkay, two weeks.
mike_c: depends what you consider the thing. I mean, an "F35" exists, and some things on it work..
mircea_popescu: o look, total budget intended to pass 1 trn
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55887 @ 0.00028793 = 16.0915 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: ahaha
ben_vulpes: christ the braindamage.
mircea_popescu: so what, we're not going to allow the us in gossipd ?
mats: mircea_popescu: has been built. lotsa videos around of it doin the hovering trick.
mircea_popescu: heh. it also only has 2 a-a missiles ?
mats: its utilitarian!
mats: does everything and sux at em all.
mircea_popescu: so 2.5k planes of 2 missiles each. the chinese only have like 10k
mircea_popescu: except of course by 10k we mean "can get up in the air at least 10k"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66469 @ 0.00029499 = 19.6077 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: whereas by 2.5k we mean... uh.
mats: short take-off to hover.
mircea_popescu: maybe i miss something, but why do you want a plane to helicopter ?
ascii_field: for use on carriers ?
mats: yeah, carriers and emergency landing zones.
mats: e.g. in the field.
mircea_popescu: but this is a fighter jet, right ?
mircea_popescu: if you stop you're dead anyway
mats: yeah. its stupid. design by committee.
ascii_field: the need for runway is an ancient annoyance to airplane folks
ascii_field: the attempts to do away with it - make sense
mats: osprey's not doing so good so i guess they decided to experiment more with f-35.
ascii_field: (conventional machine on runway is just as vulnerable as 'hoverer')
mircea_popescu: section 3.5 - "some servers in our scans used Java's DSA primes as p,
mircea_popescu: but mistakenly used the DSA group order q in the place of the
mircea_popescu: generator g ... This substitution of q for g is likely due to a
mircea_popescu: usability problem: the canonical ASN.1 representation of
mircea_popescu: Diffie-Hellman key exchange parameters (coming from PKCS#3) is a
mircea_popescu: sequence (p, g), while that of DSA parameters (coming from PKIX) is
mircea_popescu: (p, q, g); we conjecture that the confusion between these formats led
mircea_popescu: to a simple programming error."
mircea_popescu: is this related to mod6 find in any sense ?
ascii_field: not as i understand
ascii_field: (and i'm still at a loss to craft a situation where gpg's p and q will occupy varying number of 'limbs' and lead to catastrophe in the given line)
ascii_field: ^ does not mean that such is impossible
mircea_popescu: "the electronic edge F-35 enjoys over every other tactical aircraft in the world may prove to be more important in future missions than maneuverability" << check it out, it got wifi
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28165 @ 0.00029553 = 8.3236 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: where do horrors like http://blog.offeryour.com/?p=203240 come from ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32485 @ 0.00030253 = 9.8277 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: re: F-35 << "shuttle" debacle all over again
mircea_popescu: the F-35C taking 43 seconds longer than an F-16 to accelerate from Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2
mircea_popescu: aaaaahhahahaah omfg.
mircea_popescu: so they built a spitfire ?
mircea_popescu: "In March 2013, USAF test pilots, flying with pre-operational software that did not utilize the all-aspect infrared AAQ-37 DAS sensor, noted a lack of visibility from the F-35 cockpit during evaluation flights, which would get them consistently shot down in combat."
mircea_popescu: Defense spending analyst Winslow Wheeler concluded from flight evaluation reports that the F-35A "is flawed beyond redemption"; in response, program manager General Chris Bogdan suggested that pilots worried about being shot down should fly cargo aircraft instead.
mircea_popescu: o this shit's epic.
mats: "lets ignore the guys who've been flying the most dangerous air frames in development for twenty years"
mike_c: davout:gonna get the schneier one to get started << mod6 told me to read this, it is awesome. I feel stupid for not having read it sooner.
mircea_popescu: "Even in its third iteration, the F-35’s helmet continues to show high false-alarm rates and computer stability concerns, seriously reducing pilots’ situational awareness and endangering their lives in combat;"
mircea_popescu: = the closed-source java blob they're using actually reboots in flight
mircea_popescu: nb BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: The silliest thing about the F-35 clusterfuck is the US had a decent somewhat stealthier plane in the F-22 coming off the line in flyable shape and... It was too expensive. Nao it would have been cheaper.
mircea_popescu: "In all these instances, data reporting and processing rules were changed during the year for no other reason than to paint a more favorable picture. Maintenance problems were determined to be so severe that the F-35 is only able to fly twice a week."
mircea_popescu: no way. come on.
mats: BingoBoingo: well, the F-22 and F-35 do different things.
mircea_popescu: what is this, deliberate slapstick ?
mats: they're intended to fly tandem in combat.
mircea_popescu: mats f22 flies tues, thurs fri, and weekend f35 mon and wed -> tandem ?
BingoBoingo: mats: For some definitions of different (everything the F-35 B&C do-ish)
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
mod6: mike_c: hey! glad you like it :]
davout: mike_c: which edition?
davout: 20th anniversary or 2nd edition?
mike_c: I have 2nd. 20th anniversary looks like just a PR thing? not different content?
mod6: ya 2nd edition
davout: alrighty, it's also cheaper on amzn
davout moves to set camp by the mailbox
davout: fluffypony: you in paris nao?
ascii_field: BingoBoingo ^^
jurov: i heard f35 cannot transition from hover to forward movement
jurov: it has to land and reconfigure itself first
ascii_field: jurov: at least downward movement still worx
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58250 @ 0.00030281 = 17.6387 BTC [+]
jurov: dunno why the haven't attached flea legs instead, would work same as vtol
ascii_field: in other nyooz, https://www.incapsula.com/blog/ddos-botnet-soho-router.html << yes, same ubiquiti that made 'edgerouter'
ascii_field: as in, the one sold to iran 'against sanctions' with boobytrap included
ascii_field: (see log)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00029876 = 6.02 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: does it say why ?
mike_c: no.. oddly vague about that. doesn't seem to be a firing.
ben_vulpes: probably wants to spend more time with his family
mats: promoted to head cocksucker. off to DC!
mircea_popescu: !s private eye from:mircea
assbot: 1 results for 'private eye from:mircea' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=private+eye+from%3Amircea
ben_vulpes: ah shit
mike_c: "to start his own legal and consulting firm"
ben_vulpes: s/family/nailgun
bitstein: "Mr. Lawsky, who has spent his entire two-decade legal career in government, plans to open his own firm and serve as a lecturer at Stanford University, people briefed on the matter said." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/business/dealbook/benjamin-lawsky-to-step-down-as-new-yorks-top-financial-regulator.html
bitstein: whoops, my irc chat wasn't scrolled all the way down
ben_vulpes: hey bitstein
ben_vulpes: http://www.bubblear.com/reminder-get-cash-before-the-weekend/ << lol for all the printing they still can't keep atms full?
bitstein: howdy ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: it's vtol cash.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00029805 = 5.2159 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 'Unpaid Intern is, as the byline properly describes, an unpaid intern. Unpaid intern is a fresh-out-of-school, wide-eyed journalism grad who thinks one day they will make it to the New York Times. In the meantime they are stuck here, so they better get used to it.'
ascii_field: waitasec
bitstein: "Democratic state Rep. Senfronia Thompson criticized the company by saying that 'it would have been wiser if Mr. Tesla had sat down with the car dealers first.' But there is no 'Mr. Tesla' involved in the company, which is named after the late inventor Nikola Tesla and is founded and run by Elon Musk." https://fortune.com/2015/05/18/tesla-texas/
ascii_field: why that thing was in english ?
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04FK33X.txt )
ascii_field: the 'bubblear' link, i mean
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: because i'm an esl derp
ascii_field: but, for whom was it posted ?
mircea_popescu: bitstein honestly, the blowing up of the entire "car dealers" bs is pretty much the only thing i actually like about mr tesla.
BingoBoingo: I kinda prefer Tesla's earthquake machine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13754 @ 0.00029429 = 4.0477 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.0003002 = 41.9379 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47999 @ 0.00029429 = 14.1256 BTC [-]
mats: fun fact: windows 8.1 will sometimes triple fault when bugchecking when a kernel debugger is attached
davout: can someone explain to me how i'm able to malloc into existence more than 1tb, fill the first byte with some random int, and have valgrind report the massive allocated space. all this with a whopping 4gb ram and 512gb hdd?
davout: "in use at exit: 1,155,346,237,534 bytes in 1,500 blocks" <<< oO
ascii_field: davout: iirc he was tracking whole box, not bitcoind per se
mircea_popescu: notrly valgrind's problem, this. if system reports it as allocated, it's allocated as far as its concerned
mircea_popescu: what kernel is this ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134042 @ 0.000289 = 38.7381 BTC [-] {4}
davout: it's on osx
davout: fucking around with C, this confuses me
mircea_popescu: prolly some osx cleverness ?
davout: mebbe
davout: i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet
mircea_popescu: nao, linking "phuctor" anchor to usg-replacement.
ascii_field: 'no real world impact'
ascii_field: tr0l0l0l
Apocalyptic: mircea, that's hilarious
ben_vulpes: <davout> i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet << "we can therefore we must"
davout: lol
mircea_popescu: !up Landgull
Landgull: Oh, thank you. I don't really have anything to say, though, I'm here to listen.
Apocalyptic: anyway "factored" in this sense doesn't mean much
mircea_popescu: which sense ?
Apocalyptic: in the sense of finding a prime factor of a modulus that has more than 2
Apocalyptic: I mean you can get a standard 4096-bit sane RSA key, multiply N by 3 and there you go
mircea_popescu is not following.
Apocalyptic: someone "factors" it, finds the 3, but the key is still as strong as the sane one you started with
mircea_popescu: well, it's complicated.
mircea_popescu: suppose the exponent was 3.
Apocalyptic: public exponent or private ?
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ty mircea_popescu
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's latest article to learn how the bulk of the booby keys were generated
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic iirc shcneier actually was recommending e=3 (d is the private traditionally)
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, I will
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: you can actually create them on your own, given the info
Apocalyptic: i'm just commenting on the first invalid subkey that was discussed
ascii_field: the result is essentially same as using a random integer as a modulus
ascii_field: i.e., likely to be pollard-rho-able and/or lenstra-able.
ascii_field: conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime.
ascii_field: i certainly have not tested for this.
Apocalyptic: <ascii_field> conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime. // would be trivial to check
ascii_field: but the reason why malefactor did this 'random' bit,
ascii_field: is almost certainly because statistically - these are -easy- to break apart.
ascii_field: and give some plausible deniability, as we saw, at least works on idiots
ascii_field: 'cosmic rays', 'bad blocks on disks'
Apocalyptic: anyway mircea it was just to say that in this case I would call it factor only if modulus is totally broken into primes, something i've referred as full factoring, otherwise not much you can do
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: properly lenstra-ing these is certainly on the agenda
ascii_field: but not #1
Apocalyptic: (note that this isn't even stricly a RSA key anymore)
Apocalyptic: *strictly
ascii_field: violates every assumption behind hardness of rsa, yes
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, ok, would love to compare the results when you're done, i'm throwing some stuff at it atm
ascii_field: which was the intent of whoever crafted it, yes.
ascii_field: for what it's worth
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, of the 19 broken moduli so far how many are actually valid subkeys ?
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: at least two, iirc, had valid sigs. The remainder divide into ones with invalid selfsigs and ones with absent ones entirely (stripped)
ascii_field: i will do a proper tally shortly
ascii_field: incidentally you can run the heuristic finder yourself
ascii_field: comment out the bit with 'giant exponents'
ascii_field: (these are rampant, >1300 instances alone)
ascii_field: at the moment, i would like to collect a sample of material signed with one of the -legit- keys for which a 'magic' key exists
ascii_field: and see what happens when one actually tries to verify the signature with 'magic' key (and its bizarre composite mega-exponent) as reference
ascii_field: top result is 'magic'
hanbot: how do you know you're even seeing all/most of the magic keys? maybe they were not intended to show up in public servers, and end there through some error/leak
ascii_field: next one (also 2-02) is legit key
ascii_field: hanbot: if it isn't on sks, it isn't really public is it
hanbot: exactly
hanbot: maybe this is the iceberg tip of some sort of process not really intended to be visible
ascii_field: afaik the only possible point of crafting these -was- to disseminate them publicly as spurious copies of the real thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147200 @ 0.00028083 = 41.3382 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: hanbot seems improbable.
ascii_field: hanbot: and clearly the process, whatever it was, did not want to be found. but it does appear to consist of fucking with purported -public- keys and therefore intrinsically findable.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76542 @ 0.00028208 = 21.591 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic well, "totally broken". depends what you're trying to do and so on. having a known small factor is already breakage
mircea_popescu: ie, you wouldn't use that key.
ascii_field: given as the bulk of the samples consist of the owner's own moduli with every other 32-bit word doubled (overwriting its neighbour) - the amount of 'crafting' appears to be minimal. in this particular case (there were other breakable keys.)
hanbot: hm.
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, it is breakage in the sense it reduces the apparent security, the key may still be pretty much alright
ascii_field: thing about small factors is that we have them here because the moduli are essentially random shots in the integer dark.
ascii_field: how likely is 'all right' key when shooting at random ?
Apocalyptic: (if intentionnaly made this way)
mircea_popescu: i dun see this argument.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you could just run a probabilistic test on it.
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, ok, let's start again
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's article where litmus.py appears.
mircea_popescu: !up Hasimir
Apocalyptic: let's say I take the two secret primes of my present key
mircea_popescu: go ahead
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic aha.
Hasimir: well, let's see there's Rob Hansen's key
Apocalyptic: I multiply then the modulus N by 3 (or any other small prime, the value doesn't matter)
Hasimir: RSA flaw?
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done
Hasimir: his key is DSA2 & El-Gamal
Apocalyptic: I submit it to phuctor, its screams "Moduli factored !"
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: bugger took every other 32-bit word and copied over neighbour.
Apocalyptic: but the key is still as strong as my original
mircea_popescu: Hasimir "Rob Hansen" doesn't appear on the page ?
Apocalyptic: <ascii_field> Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done // exactly
Hasimir: no. 92 & 93
Hasimir: in Stan's list of "we have your private keys"
Apocalyptic: i'm just trying to show that finding a small factor is not inherently breaking the key
mircea_popescu: lemme fish them out for you a sec.
ascii_field: Hasimir: whos key is this
ascii_field: Hasimir: we only see it here if it had one or more rsa subkeys.
Hasimir: rjh@sixdemonbag
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes.
mircea_popescu: this isn't the assumption here
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ima get the key one sec.
Hasimir: it has an rsa signing subkey
ascii_field: Hasimir: there we go.
ascii_field: so that'd be it
Hasimir: but the rest of it isn't
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, as the poeple whose key you're listing probably didn't craft it this way, it's very probable that it's further broken, yes
mircea_popescu: Hasimir doh.
mircea_popescu: well, it would be the rsa wouldn't it.
ascii_field: Hasimir: we don't deal with the rest of it.
Hasimir: which means no getting the private cert or decryption
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes. // this is all i was arguing :)
ascii_field: the experiment specifically concerns moduli, not keys. a key contains zero or more rsa moduli
Hasimir: ascii_field, just the signing subkey?
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic well sure, theoretical theory. but if you run a factorizing algo on any of the keys you'll see they break apart.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: there is a reason why generating proper rsa keys is cpu-expensive
Apocalyptic: I know
Hasimir: ascii_field, then claiming to have derived the private key is a wee bit disingenuous
Apocalyptic: and yes if found in the wild, the assumption you are making is a safe assumption
ascii_field: barring some entirely unknown and very interesting number-theoretical result, the word-doubling is overwhelmingly likely to yield an 'easy' modulus.
mircea_popescu: Hasimir wouldja quote the claim you speak of ?
Hasimir: sure one tic
Hasimir: "Are you on this list ? We probably have your private key"
ascii_field: Hasimir: private key naturally would correspond to the phony key
mircea_popescu: Hasimir so what's disingenuous ?
Hasimir: alright, if it's not, what method did you use to crack el-gamal?
ascii_field: and go apply pollard rho, and lenstra, you will have the private. you don't even need us for this
ascii_field: Hasimir: we don't deal in el gamal!
ascii_field: or dsa
mircea_popescu: it's a rsa factorization service.
ascii_field: or '22: proprietary reserved algo'
Hasimir: which is the point
ascii_field: (yes, lots of these. wtf)
mircea_popescu: Hasimir i do not see this point.
mircea_popescu: the way text works is not that reader is free to make whatever assumptions he wishes and it is the responsibility of the text to explicitly dispel them
Hasimir: ok, let me see if I'm reading the article correctly
mircea_popescu: the way text works is that the reader has the job of forming a mental image that does not contradict the text.
Hasimir: you only deal with rsa, you only claim to have rsa priv keys, but you list dsa/elgamal keys as broken ...
mircea_popescu: i dun see dsa/elgamal keys were listedf.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: he appears to be taking issue with interchangeable use of 'keys' and 'moduli'
Hasimir: this one: 0x23806BE5D6B98E10
mircea_popescu: in general, one's at liberty to create a Patented Leather Assymetric Key and give it his name
mircea_popescu: if he also has a rsa key by the same name, he will be in the list of rsa keys.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field except a modulus does not exist outside of a key.
ascii_field: Hasimir: understand, someone can create a key containing an rsa modulus of the kind described here using a modified copy of your, e.g., el gamal, key
ascii_field: and it will show on our list
mircea_popescu: pgp has no way to enforce names
Hasimir: true
mircea_popescu: you can create a key for obama and sks will list "obama's" key.
mircea_popescu: what's one to do ?
Hasimir: as all the president@whitehouse.gov ones prove
mircea_popescu: now, of that list, at least some are thoroughly broken
mircea_popescu: two examples are given there, each with two moduli with 8-12 digit factos known
mircea_popescu: some others are yet unknown
ascii_field: Hasimir: the shenanigans exposed appear to have an intent which includes - but not necessarily limited to - passing off spurious rsa keys for various names
Hasimir: which is why you need to specify the key ids, otherwise you're spreading unnecessary panic
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:53:36; *: mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.
ascii_field: Hasimir: so far each of the cases i have examined in detail had -at least one- legit rsa modulus in subkeys
mircea_popescu: Hasimir you have read the paragraph at the beginning yes ?
ascii_field: and the panic is entirely the work of the enemy, who is passing around the idiot strawman that 'rsa was broken. oh wait, no it wasn't! disregard the whole thing!'
Hasimir: yes
ascii_field: btw, re: random numbers as moduli: https://primes.utm.edu/howmany.html#pi_def
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00027831 = 4.8008 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: ^ mandatory
Hasimir: alright then, take a crack at mine, same one as used with -otc and in my /ns info
mircea_popescu: Hasimir if it's been already processed you can see yourself the result
mircea_popescu: if not, it will be
Hasimir: it has been, but reprocessing hasn't occurred in 2 years
Hasimir: I checked it in 2013
ascii_field: Hasimir: add it to the queue
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what you're saying.
Apocalyptic: phuctor was live in 2013 ?
mircea_popescu: yes, as it happens, oct.
mircea_popescu: Hasimir just put the pubkey in the box and it'll tell you if it has or hasn't
ascii_field: i will be very surprised when a 'proper' pubkey that some fella actually has on his own box, fails the test
mircea_popescu: ascii_field some that had only broken moduli, in pairs.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: quite a few. which is consistent with the 'random bits make terrible rsa moduli' thing.
ascii_field: were all of them even odd, lol
ascii_field: at least this.
mircea_popescu: we blessfully don't have 2~!11 as a factor yet
mircea_popescu: that'd be the sadness of all time.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as a retest
mircea_popescu: oh, is it rebuilding the P huh ascii_field
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron server's atm busy with a large computation which is why it's not answering ya
Hasimir: ascii_field, where's the code you use to run these tests anyway?
Hasimir: cool
ascii_field: very simple, but works.
Hasimir: sqlite3 db full of keys ... ouch
Hasimir: though probably better than the sks solution
ascii_field: Hasimir: whole thing was ~2 days' work
ascii_field: so not optimal by any measure
Hasimir: yeah, you might want to look at the keybox (.kbx) format used in gpg 2.1, designed to improve lookup speed with larger keyrings
Hasimir: though you'll lose all the v2 keys
ascii_field: no thanks.
Hasimir: but then we should probably lose them anyway
Hasimir: ok, these weak ones you found, have you identified a common generation program?
mircea_popescu: they're not even all in the same class.
Hasimir: and v2 keys == pgp 2.3 to pgp 2.6(i)
mircea_popescu: at least two, maybe three different types so far
Hasimir: do they all have subkeys or not?
ascii_field: Hasimir: read carefully. we do not know where they came from. but the largest class we identified so far appears to consist of carefully crafted spurious keys, made with a particular transformation of original legit ones.
mircea_popescu: all what ?
Hasimir: well, that list 160 reads like regular posters to the enigmail mailing list
Hasimir: or possibly gnupg-users
mircea_popescu: tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning.
Hasimir: I recognise most of the names
mircea_popescu: they're all keys. how you package them is irrelevant
mircea_popescu: Hasimir i am aware.
trinque: heh sqlite always comes up as "not fast" in conversation
trinque: I wonder if anyone ever tests this hypothesis
ascii_field: trinque: was going for 'simple' rather than 'fast'
trinque: sure, I am saying I've personally never found sqlite3 to be slow
trinque: probably comes with comparisons to key-value stores that do barely anything aside retrieve by key
mircea_popescu: trinque seems it has issues wiht locking
trinque: ah yeah I guess it's bad at concurrent writes; that's fair
jurov: someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation << guess mr.zimmermann overengineered it and then left to rot
jurov: GNU picked it up then
fluffypony: davout: yes - had supper at Le Keller
fluffypony: which was very nice
davout: fluffypony: neat! never been there
trinque: !up Hasimir
davout: fluffypony: what are you keeping yourself busy with tomorrow? visiting?
fluffypony: I need to tweak the presentation a bit, so the wife will go to the spa for a couple of hours
davout: ah you took her with, nice!
fluffypony: and then we'll probably do the Louvre because we haven't been in AGES
davout: it's pretty massive
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
fluffypony: yeah I know, but neither of us are terribly au fait with it, so we'll just dip our toe in;)
ascii_field: << example of someone for whom only breakable key is on sks
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, this may be more affordable to fully factor than HPA invalid's
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: as a general rule, an rsa modulus generated without regard to rules (primality testing, pollard-rho, the lot) is cheap to factor.
ascii_field: the authors of the fakes also relied on the 'plausible deniability' of using random crud rather than proper mods
Apocalyptic: well given what i've tried on that HPA's i would not fully concur here
ascii_field: for all we know, this is a straight 'dos' and no one actually knew the privates to these
ascii_field: and the purpose was to force the victims to revert to plaintext
Apocalyptic: that's a possibility yes
ascii_field: there is also mircea_popescu's 'magic flag' hypothesis.
Apocalyptic: I guess maybe e isn't even prime with phi(N) on those
Apocalyptic: and as such there is no private to even begin with
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: look at the e
Apocalyptic: haven't looked
jurov: 's got a "new" n900... after just a few hours it's clear why nokia had to be gutted
ascii_field: jurov: ?
jurov: ascii_field: you ever had it?
jurov: it's..debian
jurov: true one, not something android-bastardized
ascii_field: what of the baseband ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @ 0.00027506 = 30.1741 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: i guess it's a device osmocom-gsm hackers use
jurov: but if i'm ever getting into such uber-illegal territory, i'm not advertising it here
jurov: i stand corrected, it's not this one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76410 @ 0.00027383 = 20.9234 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: jurov something like that.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic what have you tried ?
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, somehow pgpdump refuses to print info about the invalid subkey, or at least I don't see the keyid referenced the way I see it for the master key and the signature packets
Apocalyptic: I suppose it's the same as the master one though, so this situation can't happen since e is itself a prime
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, rho pollard plus countless iterations of ECM for reasonable bounds assuming there is a 20-30 prime digit factor in the modulus reminder
Apocalyptic: I guess i'm gonna have to keep increasing it for a while
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic you know it'd be halpful if youactually counted them / documented the attempts
Apocalyptic: I do count them
Apocalyptic: I will post a report if it leads to something, or if somebody wants it
mircea_popescu: well how many is countless ?
Apocalyptic: around 3000 probabilistic runs
mircea_popescu: and all for 10-20 digit ?
Apocalyptic: this should find any prime factor under *30* digits even
Apocalyptic: after 430 runs the probability of error is something like 1/e if I remember and if this doc is correct
mircea_popescu: depends a lot on the rng too
Apocalyptic: well that's why you run it multiple times
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57490 @ 0.00026437 = 15.1986 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no, you run it multiple times because it's probabilistic.
mircea_popescu: that doesn't fix a bad rng
Apocalyptic: oh, you mean that
mircea_popescu: (not saying it's likely the case, anyway)
Apocalyptic: yeah probably not
mircea_popescu: mind trying lenstra ?
mircea_popescu: eh nm you did say ecm.
Apocalyptic: yeah, afaik ecm is lenstra
mircea_popescu: for some reason i was thinking you're doing rabin-miller
Apocalyptic: isn't that just a primality test ?
mircea_popescu: it is yeah. i need moar sleeps.
mircea_popescu: (it does sometimes yield a factor, but not reliably)
mircea_popescu: anyway. laters all!
Apocalyptic: laters
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12969 @ 0.0002807 = 3.6404 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: Bram Cohen: It's difficult for me to convey just how profoundly idiotic the BitShare mining chip is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7636 @ 0.0002807 = 2.1434 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114739 @ 0.00027428 = 31.4706 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103500 @ 0.00026787 = 27.7245 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning. << Within your big GPG keyblock you can have multiple keys, say a 4096 RSA for signing and another 4096 to encrypt to. Beyond that you can keep stuffing moar keys in there just because...
danielpbarron: ;;isup 8ch.net
gribble: 8ch.net is down
danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/601176574713569280 >> Load balancer crashed. I asked datacenter for assistance with it. It apparently overheated, fan might be broken. More updates to come.
danielpbarron: b-a crashed 8chan!
trinque: lol!
trinque: BingoBoingo: https://wiki.debian.org/Subkeys << clear as mud
trinque: and aside that, may the words should, associated, and all other "ignore the gap" terms be put to the spike
trinque: do I understand correctly that you use a "signing key" to sign your various subkeys, thus associating them with one identity?
BingoBoingo: trinque: Ideally, but...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121757 @ 0.00026256 = 31.9685 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49295 @ 0.00026832 = 13.2268 BTC [+]
bad_duck: Hi, maybe someone could help me here..? ( http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36p1i8/looking_for_some_data_about_time_between_blocks/ ) tl;dr -> I'm looking for some data about time between blocks (cannot rely on timestamps in blocks), if someone has some logs / know where to find this? thx!
funkenstein_: bad_duck, if you can't rely on the timestamps on the blocks what timestamps can you rely on?
danielpbarron: data signed by WoT members
funkenstein_: hehe good point
danielpbarron: does debug.log record the date from the block? or the time on my computer when the block was relayed?
bad_duck: danielpbarron | data signed by WoT members <-- I hope to find a "relyable" person, but yes I'll have to trust him
bad_duck: danielpbarron: yes, I have this info in my debug.log but my node is only running for 1-2 months...
danielpbarron: remember to copy it into a different location
bad_duck: danielpbarron: anyway I want some more data so I'm looking for someone who is listening the network for a long time / has logs
danielpbarron: i don't think debug.log would give you the info you want
bad_duck: danielpbarron: dependd if the node is running for a long time, it has it after the initial sync (and some missing / wrong poing after downtime when resync / getting last blocks)
danielpbarron: my log doesn't have this UpdateTip thing
bad_duck: hmm, mine has, things like that :
bad_duck: 2015-05-21 01:28:34 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357347 log2_work=82.81497 tx=69326602 date=2015-05-21 01:28:05
bad_duck: 2015-05-21 01:30:13 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357348 log2_work=82.815005 tx=69326669 date=2015-05-21 01:27:51
danielpbarron: also, you can do just grep UpdateTip .bitcoin/debug.log
bad_duck: for the last 2 blocks, on the left my timestamp, on the right the timestamp in block
bad_duck: but the node need to be connected / synched to get the "right" timestamp, during initial sync / update after downtime the timestamp on the left would likely be wrong
danielpbarron: mine just has the date in the block (version 0.7.2 and 0.5.3.x)
bad_duck: bitcoind? that's some old versions!
bad_duck: ok, I see
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00026739 = 6.3505 BTC [-]
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140965 looked into it,unlike others the modem actually does not have access to memory or storage, communicates to cpu via uart
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 21:58:54; ascii_field: what of the baseband ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 201608 @ 0.00025879 = 52.1741 BTC [-] {4}
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140385 < free herring is nice, but plenty of other places have free herring/oil/usg favors
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 14:30:35; mircea_popescu: for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.
decimation: why don't we have someone here from egypt derping about arab freedom
decimation: !up AdrianoOliveira
decimation: !up shesek
jurov: decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system
AdrianoOliveira: thanks decimation
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: what brings you here
AdrianoOliveira: i was a regular "listener" here... but I am absent for the last couple months
AdrianoOliveira: basically I first came here while studying the pricing of bitcoin options
decimation: where does anyone trade bitcoin options?
jurov: !up nubbins`
decimation: jurov: lol good point - except I thought it was mostly turks
AdrianoOliveira: that's the problem... there is not negotiation at all.
jurov: heh do tell
AdrianoOliveira: I started pricing a model for them for the brazilian market (basically an option which would cover the risks of dolar and bitcoin)
AdrianoOliveira: but I didn't go beyond the model/backtest
decimation: jurov: note that ms. socialism failed to acknowledge that part
jurov: decimation no she'd see it a confirmation "yes they know it's good, too"
decimation: heh yeah. is slovenia full of ethnics too?
jurov: AdrianoOliveira: I recently asked local atm owner about selling some, he quoted me 200eur/btc
jurov: and i was like..wtf he gets bitcoins at such price?
jurov: there are too much we don't know
decimation: jurov: I suspect much btc trading happens over the counter
jurov: yeah, i suppose it's better to sell 10% lower under the counter and avoid taxes
jurov: and dunno about slovenia, ask kako
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges
AdrianoOliveira: and I am not one of the big players here
AdrianoOliveira: jurov: besides the taxes, if they try to sell/buy larger quantities they will move the market faster againt them
decimation: jurov: right you are slovak right?
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: 280 seems pretty low
jurov: yes, slovak :) and no ethnies here, only a few in capital
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103200 @ 0.00026356 = 27.1994 BTC [+]
decimation: jurov: do many people speak german there?
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: it is indeed. most brazilians avoid the exchanges for several reasons... also people lost interest since the $1000/btc
jurov: dunno, germans/aunstrians prefer english
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: they only want to trade it if it is 'rich'?
jurov: decimation: they want to HODL
decimation: ;;ud HODL
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hodl | hodl isn't defined. ... Ho Dip · hodizzle · hodjo · hodl · Hodlbups · Hodle · hodlickle · Hodling · HODMAN · Hodnet · Hodo · ho dog · ho dog cool · Ho Doh Doh Doh ...
jurov: obv that won't work if it's going down
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: lol... it seems they avoid buying it if it is cheap... it is better to buy high and sell low, hehe
decimation: I donno, it seems to me that as long as any money is going into bitcoin, the 'price' relative to fiat is going to increas
decimation: so if that's the case, bitcoin is 'on sale'
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: I've heard that during the hyperinflation in brazil, most people held gold in bank deposit boxes
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: I was just a kid at that time so I can't confirm... but I remember for instance that people run into the supermarket on the same day they received they paycheck to buy groceries because prices used to double overnight
decimation: jurov: heh
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: right so people ought to remember that it's a good idea to HODL a strong currency
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the older ones that's true... people under 30 actually don't remember/didn't experience that
AdrianoOliveira: these just want to buy something that is skyrocketing to sell in a couple days for a profit
AdrianoOliveira: as it is not the case anymore, they are loosing interest on bitcoin
trinque recalls the rabid euphoria on /r/bitcoinmarkets
decimation: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.26, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11363.15894438, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None
decimation: I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'
decimation: now it's stable, and they want it to go to the moon
jurov: http://fortune.com/2015/05/20/reddit-free-speech-ellen-pao/ "misogynist and racist “subreddits” popping up frequently"
jurov: ofc
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 09:25:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103247 << imo brazil is headed straight for mexico fail mode.
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 09:25:23; mircea_popescu: this is not recoverable.
trinque: jurov: they've got some new SJW policy about being a "safe place"
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market buttfinex
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.36, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11326.24280465, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo: ^ asking price goes up when you call the ticker and address your chosen market with its "butt" name
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211120 @ 0.00025785 = 54.4373 BTC [-] {2}
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: our economy is a mess at the moment... and I don't think things will be back on track soon.
funkenstein_: decimation: I stumbled across you in an odd place
funkenstein_: "Major thirds move quickly around the 53-note circle of fifths, because of the decimation chosen to give preference to the fifth as representing the smallest change."
BingoBoingo prefers circle of circle of minor fifths, prefers the devil's note
BingoBoingo: 7th's major or minor also cool unless the rest of the chord is being filled in
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: proposed article: any value above 3 which satisfies the traditional recipe (where n = pq, public e is less than n-1, and relatively prime to p-1 and q-1) will work.
decimation: funkenstein_: hehe wtf
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i meanwhile added some more notes!
mircea_popescu: (just published it)
mircea_popescu: that is one of them
decimation: funkenstein_: I was unaware of the musical use of the term
mircea_popescu: i always thought that's the reference o.O
mircea_popescu: how DID you come up with the nick then ? you terrorist you.
decimation: no it's a reference to signal processing
mircea_popescu: these two are related.
decimation: yeah kinda
decimation: 'drop N of K items'
asciilifeform: i always assumed it was the roman decimation, l0l
decimation: or kill a tenth of your legion
decimation: for failing
asciilifeform: for, properly speaking, being unlucky
decimation: it's a convenient double meaning
asciilifeform: (how do you make a legion luckier?)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106850 @ 0.00025603 = 27.3568 BTC [-]
decimation: fight derpy natives instead of battle hardened germans?
asciilifeform: 'you go to war with the enemy you have, not the enemy you wish you had' (TM) (R)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141011 << shit i had noticed the traffic was drooping
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 00:05:37; danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/601176574713569280 >> Load balancer crashed. I asked datacenter for assistance with it. It apparently overheated, fan might be broken. More updates to come.
mircea_popescu: copypaste our condolences!
decimation: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2339&pr=0 < "Neanderthals who survived into their thirties looked like they had been pulled out of a Humvee that was hit by an IED. One fellow was missing an eye, an arm, a thumb and a foot! These guys suffered from no known diseases. However, their main food [according to chemical analysis of their bones] was the auroch?basically a rodeo bull?which they had to kill be wrestling with it, stabb
copypaste: no problem :)
mircea_popescu: decimation fwiw, he's entirely nuts on that score.
mircea_popescu: yes neanderthals hunted. this was accomplished principally by outrunning smallish game. a sort of a dodo bird, some early antelope etc.
decimation: you don't think they killed a giant auroch by hand
trinque: "endurance hunting" was the thing right?
mircea_popescu: they surely did occasionally. neanderthals are kinda like monkeys.
mircea_popescu: but it was not, i would guess, above 10% of energetic input. prolly safe to say 1% or less.
decimation: well, if the practice continued into roman times, I wouldn't want to face some dude who wrested an auroch and won
mircea_popescu: decimation the derpy european bear (small, brown guy, about 4 foot tall standing) is to this day (or rather, the 1800s) an informal "absolute top of young male physical ability"
mircea_popescu: ie, 1 kid in 100 COULD wrestle one.
mircea_popescu: but the bear is playful. nobody is fucking wrestling a bull solo.
mircea_popescu: and especially not 50k eyars ago auroch.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125641 @ 0.00026789 = 33.658 BTC [+] {4}
decimation: yeah it does seem rather dubious
mircea_popescu: it was a group effort, iof/when it happened, and oportunistic
decimation: also why not just spear/trap/arrow or whatever
mircea_popescu: (wounded animal, etc)
mircea_popescu: because they didn't have them or know how to use them.
mircea_popescu: understand : people of year 52015 will say "humans had internet" sure, they did. so ?
mircea_popescu: 99% of population uses internet exploder.
mircea_popescu: just because there's proof sylex spears were used by ns does not mean a superarmy of drilled regiments of standard-uniformed neanderthals.
decimation: that's a good point, but it seems that a deadfall is pretty obvious
decimation: or a pit with pointy sticks
mircea_popescu: you think animals are stupid ?
mircea_popescu: go hunt sometime.
mircea_popescu: you think a pit large enough to host a bull is trivial ? go fucking dig out a regulation latrine with a shard of dinner plate!
mircea_popescu: (or calculate the caloric value of the bull and the caloric expenditure of the dig)
decimation: ^ that's a good point
decimation: although an auroch would feed a tribe for awhile
asciilifeform: same while as feeds 1
mircea_popescu: no. rich meat is 3-4 calories / gram. a one ton bull made of no bones is worth 3-4Mcal tops.
asciilifeform: (meat sans preservation, 'parallelizes' but not 'serializes')
mircea_popescu: yeah, asciilifeform has a point. eat it that day or lose it
mircea_popescu: (not to derpy bacteria. to jackals. they band together.)
decimation: yeah but pit can be reused
mircea_popescu: trinque yes, that's the word. and we know it is the fact of the matter from say the kidneys.
mircea_popescu: decimation again, animals are not stupid. it will identify your trap even when fresh. let alone when it stinks of death.
mircea_popescu: !up hondapiston
hondapiston: Hello :D
mircea_popescu: hi. who're you ?
asciilifeform mutters 'meowmix'
hondapiston: Michelle
decimation: are you a socialist?
decimation: \me imagines another 1000 log-lines
hondapiston: Are you?
mircea_popescu: decimation she wasn't a socialist, she was a northernsystemalist. stop arguing about your imaginary political systems that don't exist!
hondapiston: Why not
hondapiston: Good night
mircea_popescu: ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140388 < note that her 'Nordic system' is simply derpy marxism that was recycled through the us as 'progressivism' and then indoctrinated by harvard circa 1945
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 14:32:14; mircea_popescu: instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".
hondapiston: !s meowmix
assbot: 42 results for 'meowmix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=meowmix
mircea_popescu: decimation nah, it's local brew.
hondapiston: I am meowmix
decimation: lol asciilifeform has it
asciilifeform: have i ever failed at meowmix, l0l
hondapiston: Quiet me
trinque: is "meowmix" #b-a's "anon" ?
mircea_popescu: basically, the east germans came up with a rationalization of their soviet time. "we really were right. excesses were made but..."
mircea_popescu: trinque just some guy, i dunno.
decimation: hondapiston: no you tell me why you lurk
asciilifeform: meowmix is, i think, a script.
hondapiston: I use 4g on my nexus 6
asciilifeform: meowmix: if you get in wot, i will tentatively rate you.
decimation: it does reek of 'eliza'
hondapiston: Nexus 6 is the best phone
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> meowmix is, i think, a script. << More likely meat that fails turing test
decimation: meowmix: is that why you are using an ipv6 address?
mircea_popescu: replacing the T for passing turing with the F for failing it.
hondapiston: I guess
asciilifeform: meowmix: if you can convincingly prove femality, a whole regiment will rate you, l0l
mircea_popescu: ^ from experience
hondapiston: Feminist's are stupid
decimation: so are people who inappropriately use apostrophes
mircea_popescu: i dunno man... they made me a sammich...
hondapiston: I hate feminists but most of all i hate homosexuals
decimation: meowmix, something draws you to this channel
mircea_popescu: how about the crab people ?
trinque: talk like crab! act like peo-ple!
hondapiston: Fuck homosexuals
asciilifeform: i would love to know what meowmix is, and who made it.
trinque: *walk, shit
mircea_popescu: doesn't that mean you LOVE them ?
asciilifeform: meowmix: droid, state your purpose.
hondapiston: Peace out i work at a guess statoon
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe it's vexual.
asciilifeform: the antipodal vexual.
decimation: at least vexual kinda makes sense sometimes
mircea_popescu: mexual, vexual's evil twin
decimation: and uses more than 10 syllables
mircea_popescu: together, they form
felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a723a3cfbf132739
mircea_popescu: THE COLOR MAUVE
felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/eca1220ff4d0be25
mircea_popescu: felipelalli quotes not rly necessary.
BingoBoingo: meowmix seems to consistently come from near danielpbarron's neck of the woods. Perhaps an ex?
felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/91d4164f91571469
trinque: strange the guy has a compulsion to come here, but mostly emits word salad
mircea_popescu: he prolly goes everywhere
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141047 << and all of them, WITHOUT EXCEPTION insist they have some "one twu way" idiotic system.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:22:08; decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140385 < free herring is nice, but plenty of other places have free herring/oil/usg favors
mircea_popescu: from saudi arabia to lybia, israel, pick it.
asciilifeform: trinque: i've entertained the thought that it is one of the ill-fated philippinos going off the reservation
mircea_popescu: it is the nature of human stupidity to ascertain positive outcomes to personal merit and negative outcomes to environmental hostility.
decimation: BingoBoingo: did you use a tool to find his ipv6 address assignment pool?
mircea_popescu: it's always the same iirc.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Nah, I just remember from when his phone carrier still had v4's to give him
BingoBoingo: Or her
trinque: asciilifeform: I'm not aware of it
BingoBoingo: or Xor
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah that's a good point
decimation: even the us thinks that its political system is responsible for having vast natural resources/destroying the world twice
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:04:03; mircea_popescu: it was highlighted by intel about two weeks ago, and we're generally tracing it to philippines "top quality" content farms working for a number of (mostly ct and wash based) pr firms.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doesn't seem all that likely but who knows.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:24:43; jurov: decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system
trinque: asciilifeform: huh, astroturfing meatfarms?
trinque: what a shitty life
BingoBoingo: trinque: They are a thing, welcome to glabalization
asciilifeform: trinque: aha. and now imagine if one of the slaves were to get bored and start playing with his console in unsanctioned ways
asciilifeform: drooling all over keyboard
BingoBoingo: All the gab you want at bargain prices
felipelalli: AdrianoOliveira: welcome! First Brazilian I see here.
mircea_popescu: trinque better than callcenter / myfreecams / wow gold baby.
mircea_popescu: felipelalli did you manage to rate him in the end ?
trinque: seen that, hilarious
asciilifeform: trinque: yeah it's a #b-a classic
mircea_popescu personally knows ex-slavegirl trainee. failed out of slavedom bootcamp, is now working callcenter. what most meat does irl, the world over.
BingoBoingo: !up felipelalli
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: generally speaking - what does 'failing' mean there ?
asciilifeform: similar to washing out of army ?
mircea_popescu: exactly what you'd expect. not actually being good enough. ayup
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I didn't know. Thanks for the pro tip.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141073 << eh, random people ended up with some dust dunno what to do with it. try amassing 1k, or even 10 btc and see what you have to pay.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:36:17; AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141102 << excelent example, if more wer eneeded, that soft consensus aka fecal matter.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:48:29; decimation: I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'
mircea_popescu: the idea that "the people" should have a voice is not unlike the notion that cows should design their own barns.
mircea_popescu imagines a cow designed barn... walls of hay, roof of salt rock...
asciilifeform: if cows could speak, they might very well tell us that they believe themselves to have invented barns
asciilifeform: and designed the particular example they happen to inhabit.
mircea_popescu: and fucked napoleon's mother.
asciilifeform: ..., etc. aha.
decimation: ^ and designed the nordic system
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140900 @ 0.00027579 = 38.8588 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: watching the phuctor story unfold as a bystander, it really opens ones eyes to the... call it participatory nature of a totalitarian system
mircea_popescu: aha. quite exactly.
mircea_popescu: the gestapo, is not pointed out enough, consisted of a small office with a few bureaucrats overwhelmed by citizen reports irl,
asciilifeform: anyone recall vaclav havel's grocer ?
trinque: makes total sense.
mircea_popescu: and a HUGE hallucination in those citizens minds.
asciilifeform: precisely same thing
asciilifeform: ' It offers human beings the illusion of an identity, of dignity, and of morality while making it easier for them to part with them.'
mircea_popescu: havel definitely good read on this topic.
mircea_popescu: intelligent, educated fellow with direct access to the thing and a deep interest in documenting it. one rarely gets better.
asciilifeform recommends whole thing
mircea_popescu: and imo better than mr s, on account of no particular literary ambitions
trinque: "He does it because these things must be done if one is to get along in life." << this must be entirely automatic
trinque: the obedience mechanism, whatever that is
asciilifeform: trinque: see also orwell's 'duckspeak'
mircea_popescu: !s itself at the center
assbot: 0 results for 'itself at the center' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=itself+at+the+center
mircea_popescu: eh no wai.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,
mircea_popescu: there we go
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