Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-03-28 | 2015-03-30 → ↓
decimation: apparently Arduino is self-destructing in a trademark lawsuit drama
asciilifeform: i can't help but think of 'aradruin' when i see it
asciilifeform: always.
asciilifeform: well, orodruin
asciilifeform: in the original.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 148.6676222 BTC. Current weight: 30,959.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63678 @ 0.00026891 = 17.1237 BTC [+]
decimation: hehe yeah it's kind of a dumb name
assbot: Arduino v Arduino: Part II | Hackaday ... ( http://bit.ly/1FY372i )
decimation: "In short, there are two companies calling themselves “Arduino” at the moment. One, Arduino LLC was founded by [Massimo Banzi], [David Cuartielles], [David Mellis], [Tom Igoe] and [Gianluca Martino] in 2009, runs the website arduino.cc, and has been directing and releasing the code that makes it all work. Most of these folks had been working together on what would become the Arduino project since as early as 2005."
asciilifeform: almost as good as apple v apple
decimation: "The other “Arduino” used to be called Smart Projects and was the manufacturing arm of the project founded and run by [Gianluca Martino]. Smart Projects changed their name to Arduino SRL in November 2014. (A “Società a responsabilità limitata” is one form of Italian limited-liability company.) They have been a major producer of Arduino boards from the very beginning and recently registered the domain arduino.org."
decimation: basically a group of 5 italians disagree about who should profit on the whole affair
decimation: the lesson perhaps being: don't use a microcontroller you can't find the vhdl for
assbot: cpu6502_tc - R6502 Processor Soft Core with accurate timing :: Overview :: OpenCores ... ( http://bit.ly/1yomtpA )
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.8656096 BTC. Current weight: 80,118.
decimation: asciilifeform: okay it it successfully built on my gcc-4.6 rhel6 box
decimation: I can't test it, but there were no bad-looking warnings
decimation: with that I must retire
decimation: !down decimation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00026758 = 3.3715 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101004 @ 0.00026648 = 26.9155 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 04:01:26; decimation: apparently Arduino is self-destructing in a trademark lawsuit drama
mircea_popescu: so here's an idle thought : one could import apple into the pogo, create an autovote application for 20 dollars a device
mircea_popescu: drive the chinese farms out of the business of creating fake "users" and "reviews" and whatnot for the sv bezzleworld.
ben_vulpes: variable width text in irc!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68900 @ 0.0002617 = 18.0311 BTC [-] {2}
Chillum: monospaced for the win!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43840 @ 0.00026124 = 11.4528 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: for coding, sure
ben_vulpes: not for rapid reading.
ben_vulpes: muh wordshapes
ben_vulpes: Chillum: it bears mentioning that i use the same rendering stack for irc as i do for programming
mircea_popescu: i use monospace
Chillum: monospace for irc and programming
ben_vulpes: i'm experimenting.
ben_vulpes: stay away from me with your old-man-pinions
ben_vulpes: if they're good i'll get there on my own
ben_vulpes goes off to piss on fences
ben_vulpes: "is this one electrified?"
nubbins`: i use papyrus for programming and verdana for irc
nubbins`: LEL JK
mircea_popescu: you probably use comic with and comic sans
nubbins`: comic avec
nubbins`: get with the program
ben_vulpes: comic noir?
nubbins`: comic neue
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114881 @ 0.00026263 = 30.1712 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: actually too hammed to type, congrats alf, your likeness will be cast in bronze some day
mircea_popescu: comic nude and comic black
mircea_popescu: like stockings.
mircea_popescu: "you can make even bullet out of frozen shit - but for alf likeliness must use bronze!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25487 @ 0.00026263 = 6.6937 BTC [+]
Chillum: wing dings'
Naphex: fluffypony: people can be total retards especially on reddit. And btcxchange.ro wasn't hacked! It was closed down by its bussiness owner like a retard.
Naphex: hi o/
ben_vulpes: hi Naphex
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC price at or over $777 before Sept 21st 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1079/ Odds: 23(Y):77(N) by coin, 30(Y):70(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.74861989 BTC. Current weight: 58,858.
fluffypony: Naphex: they're retarded
mircea_popescu: yo Naphex
mircea_popescu: how's the meat trade ?
Naphex: mircea_popescu going good. going into pre-registers while using the amount of time left to polish :D
mircea_popescu: i was gonna send that indian chick your way but then you weren't online
Naphex: no worries. had to switch servers and DC's
Naphex: i tried out some BTC provider and they had a stupid rule of cutting the upstream when you get more then 65k packets/s
Naphex: lol
Naphex: so i just stopped the contract and moved to a normal DC
mircea_popescu: prolly some reseller.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22650 @ 0.00026217 = 5.9382 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you really wanna colocate for stuff like that
Naphex: yeah fixed. was a failed attempt to try to get a staging env faster
mircea_popescu: no rush anyway. cunt's not going anywhere.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: http://xotika.tv
assbot: XOtika.TV: Bitcoin adult live streaming community. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqfXWd )
Naphex: went into pre-registering and some pub. pretty good so far
Naphex: 100+ regs
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell indiancandy1 talk to naphex, he's launching a new site. http://xotika.tv
assbot: XOtika.TV: Bitcoin adult live streaming community. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqg1VR )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Naphex: we'll also have product presentation and some other fun stuff at http://www.awsummit.com/ro/ ;p
assbot: AWSummit - Cel mai mare summit de videochat ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqg7wJ )
mircea_popescu: uh. what's this, aro rip of aws ?!
mircea_popescu: oddly, no tits.
mircea_popescu: platinum eh ? wd.
Naphex: gotta hit em high :P
mircea_popescu: ahaha "luxuriate yourself"
Naphex: :D
[]bot: Bet created: "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 94(Y):6(N) by coin, 94(Y):6(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,997.
[]bot: Bet placed: 9 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 157.6676222 BTC. Current weight: 30,686.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $413 before Songkran" http://bitbet.us/bet/1122/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 33.07364715 BTC. Current weight: 22,066.
[]bot: Bet placed: 15 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 11(Y):89(N) by weight. Total bet: 128.96264834 BTC. Current weight: 78,425.
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 113.1868 BTC. Current weight: 77,122.
mircea_popescu: !up rotarydialer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112958 @ 0.00026535 = 29.9734 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18342 @ 0.00027119 = 4.9742 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 387 @ 0.02 = 7.74 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68408 @ 0.00026949 = 18.4353 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214925 @ 0.00027336 = 58.7519 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 00:34:21; mod6: <+jurov> my mom was using "husqvarna" << they make my favorite chainsaws / best chainsaws imho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39360 @ 0.00027718 = 10.9098 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70500 @ 0.00027755 = 19.5673 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 275040 @ 0.00028098 = 77.2807 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.00026672 = 17.3901 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62094 @ 0.00027509 = 17.0814 BTC [+]
Adlai: !s ada examples
assbot: 1 results for 'ada examples' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+examples
nubbins`: re: freezing buildroot config in time
nubbins`: "The various tarballs that are downloaded by Buildroot are all stored in BR2_DL_DIR, which by default is the dl directory. If you want to keep a complete version of Buildroot which is known to be working with the associated tarballs, you can make a copy of this directory. This will allow you to regenerate the toolchain and the target filesystem with exactly the same versions."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100200 @ 0.00027464 = 27.5189 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.0002812 = 3.1494 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99750 @ 0.00027432 = 27.3634 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00027278 = 5.8375 BTC [-]
Chillum: Good morning
nubbins`: although technically afternoon here
Chillum: well it is technically morning here
Chillum: too early even
Chillum goes to make coffee
asciilifeform: nubbins`: all stored in BR2_DL_DIR << we got this last night, yes
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i posted sha512's for my set, also.
asciilifeform: (see log)
nubbins`: beaut
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 400 @ 0.00332811 = 1.3312 BTC [-]
nubbins`: gonna cave and set up a gentoo install on usb stick here later today
asciilifeform: nubbins`: gentoo for what
nubbins`: macbook
nubbins`: bbl!
asciilifeform: found a few other minor omissions in the build
asciilifeform: vgaarb is enabled (there is no vga, naturally) - missed this in the cleanup
asciilifeform: also need to set mac address of the nic
asciilifeform: otherwise all pogos will have the same one (it is not stored in any kind of nonvolatile memory)
asciilifeform: i will suggest that all subsequent patches for buildroot per se, be published as diffs from the one i posted last night
asciilifeform: rather than a mega-turd each, if diffing from a virginal buildroot
asciilifeform: did we ever get anywhere in the ntp-or-not debate ?
asciilifeform: i did not include ntp
asciilifeform: but the result is that the machine time is epoch 0 on boot.
asciilifeform: (clock does run monotonically after boot)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81850 @ 0.000262 = 21.4447 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/03/merrill-019.pdf << interesting re: 'national security letters'
Chillum: I don't trust pdfs, so many vulnerabilities in the past
Chillum: not on this computer at least ;)
asciilifeform: Chillum: if you own a machine used specifically for executing malware, very convenient for this purpose.
Chillum: I have a live cd and a laptop with no other storage I use for such things
Chillum: read only cd-rom!
Chillum: I also use open wifi near my place so I don't expose my netwrok
Chillum: I have seen sniffing software installed on routers before
Chillum: they can go from your malware friendly computer, root your router and live there between you and the internet
jurov: why so few nerds set up their own linux router?
Chillum: openwrt can be rooted too, particularly from the internal network
Chillum: much harder though
jurov: how?
Chillum: If I told everyone it would get patched
jurov: i can understnd if you have old samba open or so
mats: ...lol
Chillum: hint: look at past reoccurring vulnerabilities that have been fixed and keep coming back
Chillum: regression is a bitch
Chillum: hacking routers is good practice. They don't fight back
Chillum designs a router that fights back!
punkman: I looked into something that'd replace my modem/router but it seems I'll have to build a mini-itx or something
jurov: miniitx is dandy
Chillum: Routers are a sad state of affair. Something like 70% of consumer wifi routers in the wild are vulnerable to heartbleed
Chillum: it is the linux box that nobody upgrades!
mats: buy an edgerouter lite and tell your isp to send you a plain ol modem
Chillum: most run arch linux under the hood, often about 10 years old
jurov: that's why nerds should maintain them themselves, and i don't mean reflash openwrt and forget
mats: thats not true at all
Chillum: just based off what I have seen in the wild around here
jurov: czechs took the router problem to their own hands: https://www.turris.cz/en/
assbot: Home :: Project:Turris ... ( http://bit.ly/1IalIpf )
Chillum: I sort of want to make a portable rasp-pi that automatically roots and then secures wifi routers, as a public service
jurov: "secures" how?
Chillum: erase the eprom
jurov: haha
Chillum: gotta fail in a safe mode after all
jurov: will get replaces with just different turd
jurov: *replaced
Chillum: there is always another turd around the corner, it is the circle of life
nubbins`: <+Chillum> If I told everyone it would get patched <<< lel
punkman: "if you see something, say something" :P
Chillum: "snitches get stitches"
Chillum: lol
asciilifeform: <Chillum> Routers are a sad state of affair. Something like 70% of consumer wifi routers in the wild are vulnerable to heartbleed << and a fella who knows this, is still fond of ssl ? amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
Chillum: let it go
Chillum: most protocols have had a vulnerability at some point. Heartbleed was a bug in openssl, not a bug in ssl
mats: lol
Chillum: implementation vs protocol
asciilifeform: Chillum: i'm not certain that any of the #b-a regulars believe it to have been a bug.
asciilifeform: i very much do not.
Chillum: okay, gub'mint backdoor then
Chillum: the math is solid regardless of implementation failures/sabotage
Chillum: until quantum computers are a thing
jurov: ssl spec is too complicated, hence inevitably buggy implementations
asciilifeform: it is rather like pointing to a grain of sand in a turd, and advocating shit as a construction material because 'that grain is solid'
Chillum: okay, ssl sucks
Chillum: sure
mats: !gettrust Chillum
assbot: Trust relationship from user mats to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/mats/Chillum | http://w.b-a.link/user/Chillum
Chillum: what about TLS?
Chillum: if you take out key management and such, how do you feel about the actual crypto?
asciilifeform: the actual crypto is buried at the far bottom of a deep, deep tank of liquid shit.
Chillum: a lot of routers don't even use SSL
asciilifeform: Chillum: if it has a www configurator of any kind, it's consumer garbage
asciilifeform: adult router is configured over a dedicated serial port
Chillum: the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk
chetty: <Chillum> the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk// for some reason when I read that I wondered if anyone would trust a cert issued by Obama? If not why would you accept one from any 'lesser' authority in the same chain?
Chillum: I generally sign my own keys based on my own master cert
Chillum: you don't have to put verisign at the top
asciilifeform: Chillum: i take it you are the only one accessing the systems in question ?
asciilifeform: Chillum: if so, why not stick to the considerably less dysfunctional ssh ?
Chillum: it would be a way to go
Chillum: though not with port forwarding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126250 @ 0.00025871 = 32.6621 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73000 @ 0.00025826 = 18.853 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: trinque ERROR: unknown (Most likely my bitcoind stopped working or this page is too large/complex.) < ?
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078726 << til jurov has a favourite... chainsaw ?!
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 11:21:32; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078206 yes, that was the joke :)
mircea_popescu: scary shit, dude.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:45:38; asciilifeform: otherwise all pogos will have the same one (it is not stored in any kind of nonvolatile memory)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many folks use mac addrs in routing tables
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078762 << i dun recall it ever being a debate, vast consensus against it.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:48:55; asciilifeform: did we ever get anywhere in the ntp-or-not debate ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, the upnp demon will need to be thrown in
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i know, i was just amused at ther possible solutions :D
asciilifeform: at least in the civilian version
asciilifeform: i am very much against allowing it into bitcoind per se
asciilifeform: let it run as own user.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078769 << check it out ? neither do we. ongoing bitchfest about "pls to convert" scattered in logs.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:59:56; Chillum: I don't trust pdfs, so many vulnerabilities in the past
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform allowing who into bitcoind ?
asciilifeform: upnp buggerer
asciilifeform: you know, that one
asciilifeform: that opens ports on crapsumer routers
mircea_popescu: make a unpnp user ? sorta like apache's, "nobody" ? :D
mircea_popescu: i dun't see why not. "numbnuts" ?
asciilifeform: thing is, this is a little more complicated than appears
asciilifeform: because it needs to know when it must attempt upnp and when not
Chillum: you can open ports on a lot of routers by using ajax to make a http post that looks like IRC commands
Chillum: its a feature!
mircea_popescu: Chillum hm ?
asciilifeform: the traditional bitcoind (see code) asked a peer to attempt connect-back on 8333
Chillum: some routers automatically open a port when they see a DCC command on sent from an internal computer on an IRC port
asciilifeform: Chillum is speaking of a 'pheature' found on particularly imbecilic consumer routers
Chillum: javascript can induce a browser to send a post that tricks the router into thinking it is that
asciilifeform: circa '00-'05
mircea_popescu: Chillum ah yes, that. but this wouldn't really be a browser anyway.
mircea_popescu: it does speak of the ancient and great power of the irc, tho.
Chillum: auto port-forwarding is almost always a bad idea
mircea_popescu: something the imbecillians (is it ok if i refer to people born in the 80s as the imbecillians, given the poor results discussed yest ? generation y seems improper) all forgot.
asciilifeform circa '80s but does not object to this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80200 @ 0.00026049 = 20.8913 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078784 << this is actually exactly how a living is earned in this space.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:19:20; Chillum: hint: look at past reoccurring vulnerabilities that have been fixed and keep coming back
mircea_popescu: you don't have to be a genius and read machine code to find new holes. that's for alfs.
mircea_popescu: what you do is, you look for zombies. all it takes is a good archive of vulns and a working grep. then you take your chances.
mircea_popescu: it's better yield than spam, that's for sure.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:41:45; oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/cyrano/
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me... don't these dating speshulists sound very much like the classical shaman ? "you are under a terrible dark curse kind sir" "i will fix it".
asciilifeform: .... aaaaand...
asciilifeform: Pogotron v2.
mircea_popescu: if placebo works, get paid. if it doesn't... "some DARKER force than my powers..."
mircea_popescu: o hai pogotron!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 300750 @ 0.0002724 = 81.9243 BTC [+] {6}
jurov: hahaha so the husqvarna joke works well
asciilifeform: this one isn't as neat as it sounds. i thought BR_PACKAGE_UBOOT_TOOLS will add with fw_xxxxx on the target rootfs but seems like no. these will have to be added as packages
jurov: even if i wrote it was *not* one
asciilifeform: what i wanted to do was to build something suitable for reflashing into virginal pogos for dev work
asciilifeform: but this is not -quite- it.
asciilifeform: it -does- contain nandread and nandwrite.
asciilifeform: still built as monolithic kernel with rootfs-in-ram, deliberately
asciilifeform: but anyone who wants to, -can- flash this into nand in place of existing kernel
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:49:24; Chillum: most protocols have had a vulnerability at some point. Heartbleed was a bug in openssl, not a bug in ssl
asciilifeform: and it'll boot.
asciilifeform: and you can upgrade from inside it
mircea_popescu: the bug in pki is that any system designed or proposed by any party other than us is security poison.
asciilifeform: 'кто не с нами тот против нас' (TM)
mircea_popescu: a cognate of any claim to authority on any matter not deriving from la serenissima is both fraudulent and actionable.
asciilifeform: b94fb4736e0fa1394784d1139fe8262df450bb945c846e6bd1eda70d2c55679ccf8b7679e08c10d00aaf3dbebf9245875f3001654cf48ce5d1ac4e3c0cffce84 turdel_latest.gz
asciilifeform: ^ what comes out after v2 patch.
asciilifeform: ^ this can replace arch and debian now, which folks have been using
asciilifeform: if you copy the uboot tools to a writable external disk
asciilifeform: nand - can be operated from inside this turdel.
asciilifeform: can safely toss the pieces of shit with systemd, etc. now.
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 244.16, Best ask: 244.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 244.16, 24 hour volume: 27528.99649606, 24 hour low: 238.89, 24 hour high: 254.49, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: incidentally, the uboot fw_xxxx tools are very simple:
mats: ;;market buy 15000
asciilifeform: the config thing lives at a certain offset (forget where) in mtd0
gribble: Bitfinex | A market order to buy 15000 bitcoins right now would take 4130303.4623 USD and would take the last price up to 344.9000 USD, resulting in an average price of 275.3536 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0044 seconds
asciilifeform: where uboot lives
asciilifeform: the fw_printenv thing simply dumps the text found therein
asciilifeform: fw_setenv reflashes those blocks to hold new text
mats: ;;market buy --market bitstamp 15000
gribble: Bitstamp | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 10726.054 bitcoins, for a total of 12929272.3986 USD and take the price to 99999.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0557 seconds
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078823 << there's no math behind either ssl or pki, or the usg for that matter. they are political arrangements, "sets of procedures and people" and whatnot.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:50:28; Chillum: the math is solid regardless of implementation failures/sabotage
asciilifeform: ^ so in principle these can be reimplemented with the nand tools i have included.
mircea_popescu: they just happen to be the wrong policies by the wrong people for the wrong purposes is all.
mats: ;;market buy --market btcchina 15000
gribble: BTCChina | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 9299.7167 bitcoins, for a total of 648197043008.7280 USD and take the price to 16100000000000.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0283 seconds
Chillum: are you arguing with a recording of me?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he was speaking of rsa per se
Chillum: lol
mircea_popescu: Chillum i'm just going through the logs. pretty much everyone here reads the whole shebang.
Chillum: okay
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rsa per se is not even really involved in all this o.O
mircea_popescu: i thought most certs were ecdsa
asciilifeform: Chillum: we routinely 'argue with recordings' of one another. this is how #b-a folk handle the fact that not everyone lives at his computer
Chillum: fair enough
mircea_popescu: permanent log online + gribble ;;later tell for noobs - > wunderbar system of thought management.
mircea_popescu: which is what the forum oughta be.
Adlai is amazed that any channels survive with "no public logs" policies
Chillum: a scrap of permanence in an impermanent universe
mircea_popescu: have you seen the content ?
asciilifeform: Adlai: kindergartens and mental asylums also, afaik, don't keep logs
asciilifeform: yet survive.
mircea_popescu: exactly this.
mircea_popescu: i participated in a bdsm chan for a few days, it was painful.
Adlai: generally the participants of such institutions only attend due to coercion, whether physical or implied
mircea_popescu: 90% of lines were "hello x", 90% of the remainder "so how's it going". maybe 1 in 4 hello-handshakes succeeded, and less than 1 in 100 went past 2nd pass.
mircea_popescu: the general depth of conversation mirrored quite exactly the office.
mircea_popescu: Adlai stupidity is coercitive, wheter obviously so or not.
chetty: <mircea_popescu> 90% of lines were "hello x", 90% of the remainder "so how's it going". maybe 1 in 4 hello-handshakes succeeded, and less than 1 in 100 went past 2nd pass.//roughly matching avg. attention spans
mircea_popescu: leaving us to wonder whether the stupid tools drive the stupidity of the people, or stem from the stupidity of the people involved.
mircea_popescu: "is luser luser because on windoze, or is on windoze because luser ?"
Adlai: symbiotic convergence idiocy
mircea_popescu: this should be a term of art.
mircea_popescu: and i mean... the fact that us young adults score worse than anyone else is not a direct product. they worked to get there : the school's so dumb, why learn ; the kids aren't learning anyway why not make it dumber... 30 years later in this process the fucking mit grads can't make a flashlight
mircea_popescu: they ALL own fleshlights tho.
Adlai: Made in China™
mircea_popescu: well yeah. some patriarchy somewhere.
Adlai: s/i/oniz/
mircea_popescu: umm... patronizarchy ?
Adlai: yeh, rule by the patrons. those who can afford to patronize, as opposed to - serfs
mircea_popescu: if this worked teh us'd be numero uno.
mircea_popescu: rule by dude farmer is not functionable sadly.
Adlai: last i checked, farmer = serf
mircea_popescu: dude farmer is a term of art from back in the day the us mattered.
mircea_popescu: ie, rich guy back east, went west to start a farm, sucked at it.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: many folks use mac addrs in routing tables <<< this
Adlai: doesn't sound like a Patron of the Arts to me
mircea_popescu: patron-client relationship is what i tought you meant, off the ancient post-imperial and late-imperial model.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: "is luser luser because on windoze, << the older version of this was, iirc, 'do styes make pigs' ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, even wioth the arts, the distinction holds : the patron has no particular taste, merely money and friends.
nubbins`: <+Chillum> you can open ports on a lot of routers by using ajax to make a http post that looks like IRC commands <<< this is actually how you root the pogo without attaching a serial cable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but there is genetic indication of suinity.
asciilifeform: 30 years later in this process the fucking mit grads can't make a flashlight << aha
asciilifeform: !s flashlight
assbot: 32 results for 'flashlight' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=flashlight
asciilifeform: l0l where did it go
Chillum: nubbins`: neat, I assume you open the telnet port?
assbot: MIT genuises with lightbulb - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzOqQj )
asciilifeform: Chillum: stock pogo comes with 'dropbear', a miniature sshd
Chillum: so you open the port to ssh, but how do you get root?
mircea_popescu: it really is a great montage that, what with the bovine derping about how "we ARE" etc.
Chillum: same password on each one?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can think of an alternate hypothesis about the flashlight thing
mircea_popescu: probably a few, including videofraud . but tell ?
asciilifeform: 'I have had a chance to observe quite a few companies in the U.S. from the inside, and have spotted a certain constancy in the staffing profile. At the top, there is a group of highly compensated senior lunch-eaters. They tend to spend all of their time pleasing each other in various ways, big and small. They often hold advanced degrees in disciplines such as Technical Schmoozing and Relativistic Bean-counting. They are obsess
asciilifeform: ive on the subject of money, and cultivate a posh country set atmosphere, even if they are just one generation out of the coal mines. Ask them to solve a technical problem — and they will politely demur, often taking the opportunity to flash their wit with a self-deprecating joke or two. ... The natives at the top always try to standardize the job descriptions and lower the pay scale of the immigrants at the bottom, playing
asciilifeform: them against each other, while trying to portray themselves as super-achieving entrepreneurial mavericks who can't be pinned down to a mere set of marketable skills.'
assbot: Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century Part II ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzOOy9 )
asciilifeform: it is 'declasse' to admit that you can make a flashlight, at a 'sprezzatura' wankfest
mircea_popescu: this works a lot better if you can actually code.
mircea_popescu: dude, you're telling me that first jew boy with the rolling eyes and the slow repeating the task is putting out an act ?
nubbins`: <+Chillum> are you arguing with a recording of me? <<< heh.
mircea_popescu: as in "of course i could but i wonder how this woman is trying to trick me" ?
asciilifeform: can't say for sure. but entirely possible
Chillum: nubbins`: technology!
mircea_popescu: if he could act that well i'd know his name.
mircea_popescu: srsly now. this theory of yours would be perhaps appealing had i not spent any time on a set.
mircea_popescu: but i have, and i tell you... people who can act are RARE.
nubbins`: Chillum: a stock pogo will spread cheeks thusly: curl -k "https://root:ceadmin@[PogoplugIPAddress]/sqdiag/HBPlug?action=command&command=dropbear%20start";
nubbins`: and yes, same root pw on each one :o
mircea_popescu: not, "superhot blonde rare". that's 1 in 100. people who can act are in 1 in 10k
asciilifeform: does sprezzatura really call for top-notch general-purpose acting skill ?
mircea_popescu: and THEN they can only act in "certain spaces".
mircea_popescu: yes, to the degree it'd be depicted there, this man is an oscar winner.
Chillum: nubbins`: wow, what a slutty device
nubbins`: inorite.
mircea_popescu: go through webcasts to see how people deal with this normally.
nubbins`: there's also a built-in "request unlock from pogo" thing
nubbins`: think iphone unlock
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice : no snicker. for instance.
nubbins`: and then there's serial :D
asciilifeform: nubbins`: notice how nobody here bothered with the 'request unlock' thing or even knows if it ever worked
asciilifeform: because wtf why
Chillum: I think that sometimes companies intentionally make their devices rootable because they know hobbyists will buy boxes of them if they can root it
mircea_popescu: ^ Chillum this makes sense, and it's why this is probably happening here
asciilifeform: Chillum: this particular item is an oddity in this regard, because it is very clearly a loss-leader
nubbins`: asciilifeform i tried it with one of my pogos
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, ironically, this item was bought as a loss leader, and so, it would specifically NOT be wanted to be used this way.
asciilifeform: (priced substantially below cost, in all likelihood)
mircea_popescu: my explanation is that because of the standardization of everything, the makers just made them "as they're made" ie prevailing bs (business standards) and the buyers bought and marketed them "As they're marketed"
nubbins`: asciilifeform you log into website, "activate" pogo, then can enable ssh login via website
mircea_popescu: resulting in a transfer of value from the dudes to us.
nubbins`: it's about as gaping as it sounds
nubbins`: TBH i think they did include rootability as a hobbyist bonus, AND they made way, way too many
asciilifeform: it is interesting that the actual contents of the can has been shrinking continuously over the years
mircea_popescu: nubbins` we can now just capture the packets and "activate" any pogo anywhere on the basis of another pogo can't we.
Chillum: they should just have a physical "root access" switch on the box. Leaving backdoors for people to find is reckless
nubbins`: these were probably dumped to the surplus people en masse 4 years ago
asciilifeform: for instance, there was at one point a pogo entirely like this one but 256M.
asciilifeform: same cost.
mircea_popescu: Chillum amusingly this is what asciilifeform wanted to do.
asciilifeform: and, the successor to this (out of print) machine is quite similar but no sata.
nubbins`: maybe just no sata connector 8)
asciilifeform: nubbins`: that one is gone too
asciilifeform: nubbins`: speaking of 'pink pogo' here
nubbins` owns a synth that has MIDI in/out capabilities baked into cpu, but mfg didn't waste the extra $2 on MIDI ports
asciilifeform: this is rather reminiscent of how the famous linksys wrt54g hyper-bestseller slowly shrank and shrank, from 16 and then 8 and then 4 (even 2!) MB of ram, linux could no longer be used on it
asciilifeform: and the product faded away
mircea_popescu: i had one of those
asciilifeform: -everyone- has one of those
nubbins`: open the thing up, wire up a couple resistors and DIN5 jacks, and you've got a full-featured midi voice
asciilifeform: in a cellar somewhere
mircea_popescu: sysadmin at the time was "you don't buy "a router". write this down : linksys wrt54g"
asciilifeform: they actually re-issued it a few yrs back
asciilifeform: as a commemorative edition, somethinglikethat
mircea_popescu: this was long long ago
nubbins`: ^ a monotribe taking advantage of several interesting patch points
asciilifeform: when i ran across the 2MB linksys, my thought was 'linux is obese if can't fit in 2MB'
asciilifeform: not 'damned linksys cheated us'
nubbins`: ^ look how clearly they marked the pads
nubbins`: modder's dream
mircea_popescu: btw, speaking of guilds : they actually survive to an amazing extent. outfitters in canada for a very good example.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
nubbins`: here's a hot mess i made from a pocket-size synth, alongside original unit for reference
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 17:03:51; chetty: <Chillum> the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk// for some reason when I read that I wondered if anyone would trust a cert issued by Obama? If not why would you accept one from any 'lesser' authority in the same chain?
mircea_popescu: which is why the original "get in the wot" discussion with the sec.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` going for that entire asic miner look ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd probably end up rating him '-11111 does not have sole control of private key'
mircea_popescu: end up, yes.
mircea_popescu: not likely start up tho.
mircea_popescu: rule of law is a process after all.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu HEH. the first and last time i used test-lead wires for a permanent project.
nubbins`: dat torque
nubbins`: butchered the poor enclosure, but hey.
nubbins`: call it a v0.1
asciilifeform off to meatspace for a spell. wants to hear if anyone tests v2 patch.
nubbins`: THIS is how you make electronic music :o
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60840 @ 0.0002763 = 16.8101 BTC [+]
nubbins`: can't test patch just yet but new turdel_latest boots a-ok here
mod6: is mpexbot still a thing?
mircea_popescu: seems not. fabian's not been answering anything for a while.
mod6: oh its empyex now
mod6: ah, ok.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67800 @ 0.00025809 = 17.4985 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62200 @ 0.00026179 = 16.2833 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform, what would you say is the difference between orlov as quoted and the fiction of the "imperialist burgeois" as classically described (1890s, even) ?
mircea_popescu: are we just replaying the october revolution over here, that's the vision ?
assbot: Defend Assange against Imperialist Bourgeois assault but continue fight against Sexism! | defendtrotskyism ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIxT90 )
mircea_popescu: ie, every false prophet to date is looking upon the same sky, and will readily interpret whatever happens there in whatever terms they figure would make them look least like an idiot.
jurov: wtf "The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:"
jurov: and 1000 lines adding abi_x86_32 to everything
jurov: wow gentoo. such joy.
trinque: +mircea_popescu | trinque ERROR: unknown (Most likely my bitcoind stopped working or this page is too large/complex.) < ? < what did that come from?
assbot: blockexplorer.com | 521: Web server is down ... ( http://bit.ly/1D948m1 )
trinque: mircea_popescu: ah that's not my site; have a blockchain viewer site that you like?
assbot: dpaste: 0JE6B89 ... ( http://bit.ly/1D94rxi )
mircea_popescu: shit. i was just trying to look at a bundle
mircea_popescu: who is blockexplorer.com anyway, your thing ?
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1gtQEh8TVk6Pie2Ba6yYoSokaUvDdKpLT ... ( http://bit.ly/1D94Uj9 )
trinque: mircea_popescu: nah, block explorer is not miine
mircea_popescu: then don't link it
mircea_popescu: for this exact reason.
mircea_popescu: people wanna explore an address or block, let them do it themselves.
trinque: fine by me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24874 @ 0.00025784 = 6.4135 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: blockexplorer is Thermos's thing
thestringpuller: unless he sold it recently
jurov: iirc bitstamp bought it?
jurov: nah that was blockr
jurov: http://atc.blockr.io/ lmao still going?
ben_vulpes: afternoon, funkenstein_
funkenstein_: howdy ben_vulpes
funkenstein_: speaking of block explorers, here's an interesting one showing some exploit or another http://blockexperts.com/ilt/height/50894
assbot: Intellect Block #50894 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbEHQb )
funkenstein_: what is this ATC stuff
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26126 @ 0.00025856 = 6.7551 BTC [+]
jurov: !s therealaltcoin
assbot: 21 results for 'therealaltcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=therealaltcoin
jurov: was fun till it lasted
Adlai: jurov: doesn't blockr belong to d.cbse?
jurov: d.bstp, d.cbse, i dont see any difference
Adlai: well one of them at least invented its own name
Adlai: coinbase, blockchain, next up they'll just use magic numbers. oh wait
jurov 's looking forward to exchange named "turdatron" or "orphanburner"
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ was the alt coin for a while.
Adlai: what's up with logs, have we built the moon cabin yet?
Adlai: logs as in arithmic distribution curve
Adlai: !s logs
assbot: 1501 results for 'logs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=logs
Adlai: hmm i guess this word is overloaded now
funkenstein_: Adlai, nice log cabin on moon
Adlai: :D
funkenstein_: you like harmonic series?
Adlai: !s from:adlai music
assbot: 5 results for 'from:adlai music' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aadlai+music
funkenstein_: speaking of music i was thinking of writing an encoding embedding a bitcoin address in audio
Adlai was thinking of learning to do EC math in his head, which at least has practical use
funkenstein_: you would definitely win
Adlai: well, it's useless without mental hashing, but together they are unstoppable
Adlai: the first step is obviously relearning all of mathematics in tonal
funkenstein_: why no paper?
Adlai: speciesism, i don't trust cells that have fewer than nine nines of dna in common with me
funkenstein_: even if they are in WOT?
Adlai: all music is folk music, i ain't never seen a horse in the wot
funkenstein_: if your recorded music is playing, my phone will be like "shall we send a millie to Adlai?"
Adlai: ahhh so you're talking about watermarking an address into audio
funkenstein_: yeah
Adlai: tbh it's probably easier to have an artist address registry, and lookup the artist using some shazaam-ish thingy
Adlai: if we're talking about practical ideas :P
jurov: Adlai: how does tonal slleviate the need to do hundreds of thousands of steps computing EC sigs?
jurov: *alleviate
Adlai: jurov: makes it easier to deal with bit/byte-based operations
Adlai: doesn't reduce the total number, but fuck using decimal for sha256
funkenstein_: use hex like what's his name did one round on paper
assbot: A court case so secret, US Govt says it can't go on ... ( http://bit.ly/1He3xib )
nubbins`: sooo, just went to corner store.
jurov: care to explain to nonmuricans?
mats: ketchup chips are amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
nubbins`: jurov i'm canadian fwiw
nubbins`: ketchup flavored potato chips are popular here
nubbins`: and apparently now doritos (traditionally cheesy flavored corn chips) has ketchup flavor
nubbins`: they taste very strange, ketchup-flavored corn chips.
jurov: jurov i'm canadian << ha i was waiting for this
Adlai: does your routine
Adlai: involve some poutine?
jurov: eh?
Adlai: do you set the table
Adlai: with syrup of maple?
jurov: ehh?
Adlai imitates dr seuss re: land of the moose
nubbins`: there's a couple living on the other side of the harbour that owns goats and taps maple trees
nubbins`: i'm not a huge fan of maple
jurov: and i don't get why flavored doritos are O.o ... at first glance i was thinking it has something with blood
jurov: now *that* would be something... blood-flavored
nubbins`: jurov this is like coming across mustard-flavored jellybeans
assbot: Management theories from Roman slave-owners – Jerry Toner – Aeon ... ( http://bit.ly/1He56g3 )
jurov: "Buying any old slave risked contaminating the morale of the whole household."
mircea_popescu: punkman ozzie govt only needs courts if it needs them.
mircea_popescu: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11424037 << tellingly, this is not the front page of the nyt, wapo adn every single other usg propaganda leaflet.
assbot: A court case so secret, US Govt says it can't go on ... ( http://bit.ly/1G6leSg )
mircea_popescu: jurov that piece is, roughly speaking, the result of a cat reading a mayan calendar and inputting the result into google translate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00025784 = 10.1073 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34950 @ 0.00025782 = 9.0108 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42150 @ 0.00025771 = 10.8625 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46873 @ 0.00025751 = 12.0703 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: where can one turn for a better reading on slave treatment in the period?
Adlai: ben_vulpes: primo, latinam studere
jurov: kakobrekla/lampelina btw, you can remove havelock from bitcoin-assets.com ?
jurov: !seen Enky
jurov: ;;seen Enky
gribble: Enky was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 42 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 39 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Enky> Hi, thank you
jurov: and bitcoin trading signals, too, i guess
jurov: and add... whoever wants yourself added, let yourself be heard
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ... << tellingly, this is not the front page of the nyt, wapo adn every single other usg propaganda leaflet. << It made the front page of qntra
assbot: Private Lawsuit Dismissed Because of State Secrets Privilege : politics ... ( http://bit.ly/1OOc1lz )
jurov: we can bet if this will get "downvoted" or disappeared straight
jurov: and additionally if qntra will get added to /r/politics banned list :D
BingoBoingo: It's a bigger subreddit. Will prolly disappear because qntra is not whitelisted through their payola system
assbot: Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1OOcCne )
nubbins`: Man Attempts to Purchase Private Key for $2,000 Above Value of BTC Contained Therein
nubbins`: now that's a headline
nubbins`: BingoBoingo "Neither party to the lawsuit a part of the government or a contractor"
nubbins`: should read "Neither party to the lawsuit is a part of the government or a contractor"
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: fxd
nubbins`: suite
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021375 B (Total: 467.44 B). Delta: 0.31 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 240050 @ 0.00026016 = 62.4514 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.0002631 = 17.1541 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.0002631 = 5.3936 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57900 @ 0.0002631 = 15.2335 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61800 @ 0.0002575 = 15.9135 BTC [-] {2}
Adlai: aha, "The Romans thought clever slaves were troublesome and a threat"
Adlai: cf "I divide officers into four classes -- the clever, the lazy, the stupid and the industrious. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the high staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy is fit for the very highest commands. He has the temperament and the requisite nerves to
Adlai: deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious must be removed immediately." - Attributed, circa 1933; General Baron Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord (1878-1943); German Chief of Army Command (1930-33)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 201600 @ 0.0002633 = 53.0813 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82841 @ 0.00026499 = 21.952 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63050 @ 0.00026717 = 16.8451 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: at least two? o.O
nubbins`: clever, lazy, and stupid, say?
Adlai: say what?
Apocalyptic: nubbins`, from what follows it seems it's exactly 2
ben_vulpes: surely there's a tripartate tradeoff to be made here
ben_vulpes: clever, industrious, (???) - pick two
nubbins`: Adlai (clever/stupid), (lazy/industrious) but he says all his officers had /at least/ two of the qualities
nubbins`: black, white, hot, cold. pick three :D
Adlai: !s impossible color
assbot: 4 results for 'impossible color' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=impossible+color
mats: i rather like the way de officer training works
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165481 @ 0.0002713 = 44.895 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7460 @ 0.00027337 = 2.0393 BTC [+]
mats: us mil incentives for officers is rather broken imo
mats: lotta mustangs (enlisted-to-officer types) get fucked monetarily and often don't pass major/LTC because of the way officers are compelled to go "up or out"
ben_vulpes: "economic draft", not news.
ben_vulpes: !up Vexual
ben_vulpes: goal is to make more plebs dependent on the state, not a greater army.
mats: i wonder how much demand there is for another mpexbot
mats: did the original thing pass orders? or just report the book?
Vexual: hey if i fit all four of general vont kuntzs decriptors, does that neccessitate my immediate removal TO the highest command?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48720 @ 0.00027535 = 13.4151 BTC [+]
decimation: http://nacin.com/2015/03/29/us-digital-service/ < lol now you can volunteer to help usg
assbot: I’ve joined the White House’s U.S. Digital Service | Nacin ... ( http://bit.ly/1DiMduX )
mod6: mats: both
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115782 @ 0.00027598 = 31.9535 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166499 @ 0.00027525 = 45.8288 BTC [-] {4}
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