Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-03-23 | 2015-03-25 → ↓
mircea_popescu: “You can feel good about our project without putting down other projects, so let’s keep it clean.” I said something similar << this, for the record, is fucking stupid.
mircea_popescu: putting dumb shit down is not about "your project". it's about your environment. you put shit down for the same reason you don't keep dirty textiles everywhere
mircea_popescu: which, obviously, these "cms geeks^H^H^H^H bums do keep. but anyway.
BingoBoingo: Such is the peril of conflating a common interest into "community"
mircea_popescu: if you don't do that, you stand at risk of being called a cult!
mircea_popescu: nothing more intense, interesting or functional than this much is allowed!!! it would be bad. THINK OF THE CHILDREN
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00021254 = 3.7407 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11199 @ 0.00021254 = 2.3802 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29069 @ 0.00022317 = 6.4873 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00022705 = 5.4719 BTC [+]
brendafdez: Ok, if gnome can't be trusted: I'll be switching to Bob. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpenYCIiDkM
assbot: Happy 20th anniversary, Microsoft Bob - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HwVfW1 )
brendafdez: It was the Metro interface back in 1995
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5718 @ 0.00022152 = 1.2667 BTC [-]
trinque: emulates a real tabbed binder for enhanced usability
mircea_popescu: !up marteen
brendafdez: Well, my first computer was a Pentium 100 Mhz with 8 MB RAM that my parents bought in 1996, I stayed with that thing until 2005 or so. For many years that meant that I used DOS and Win3.11 daily bc W98 was too much for that piece of hardware. Once around 1999/2000 I borrowed from a friend a linux book which came with a Red Hat CD but dual booting was not an option (also the HDD was like 500 MB). It brings back memories seeing those in
brendafdez: s, which I spent many years of my childhood with.
marteen: thanks mircea_popescu :)
marteen: I shouldn't be awake for longer than 30 minutes :)
mircea_popescu: looking at those pics... god almighty has the "visual" aka "graphical" interface been a dead fucking end omfg.
trinque: utterly pointless
brendafdez: Click on the dog, now click on want to change something, now...
mircea_popescu: swipe right to have sex with this dog
trinque: your mail's up his ass; he ate it
brendafdez: you can buy an expansion pack for $29.99 to get more dogs to have sex with, don't forget to mail your registration card
ben_vulpes: <indiancandy1_> i dont get the wot thing mircea talkin about << righteous
mircea_popescu: ba is so ecclectic.
ben_vulpes: marteen, eh?
ben_vulpes: howdy, you
brendafdez: but they removed the dog...
mircea_popescu: that url scheme looks like it's channeling django the drupal dog.
brendafdez: and invented a nice skeumorphic word for it
marteen: ben_vulpes: hello!
ben_vulpes: oh god this ubuntu from africa thread
ben_vulpes: priceless
ben_vulpes: look at the boys trying to gently inculcate sense into her
mircea_popescu: it goes on for a while.
assbot: Registered sex offenders in Rye, New Hampshire - crimes listed, registry-based, living in this city ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hx0fKa )
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:55:24; brendafdez: I subscribed to a linux for girls community a couple of months ago. Can't tell you what it's like
mircea_popescu: holy shit, eight towns nobody heard about in a state that's barely extant, thousands of sex offenders ?
ben_vulpes: marteen: what brings you around here?
mircea_popescu: how many are there in total by now ? 1mn ? 10 mn ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: everyone's a sex offender in the states.
mircea_popescu: it seems so
ben_vulpes: piss in public - sex offender
marteen: ben_vulpes: i saw a reference to this channel on a mailing list
mircea_popescu: pissing is sex ?
ben_vulpes: it actually comes down to the "fight me and see" attitude of the attorneys
brendafdez: marteen which list? mine?
marteen: brendafdez: yes
ben_vulpes: plea bargin for sex offender or fight us for your life
trinque: also penises are illegal, they just have to find something else to say
mircea_popescu: John P. Mcsheehan
mircea_popescu: Crime: felonious sexual aslt, Conviction date: 1994-06-03
mircea_popescu: Crime: felonious sexual aslt, Conviction date: 1994-06-03
mircea_popescu: Crime: felonious sexual aslt, Conviction date: 1994-06-03
mircea_popescu: Crime: 3 counts of felonious sexual assault(victim 13 or older & under 16 & age diff more than 3 years),
mircea_popescu: 3 counts, because the girl was 15.
mircea_popescu: very odd counting.
ben_vulpes: no trigger plz
ben_vulpes: this triggers my america ptsd
ben_vulpes: plz stahp
ben_vulpes: can it be ptsd if i'm still living the nightmare?
mircea_popescu: anyway, turns out i misread the data. it's "residents per sex offender".
mircea_popescu: so basically... two guys, 5k pop -> 2l
ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot marteen
assbot: marteen is not registered in WoT.
ben_vulpes: marteen, you savvy gpg?
marteen: brendafdez: i've been lurking there for a little while :)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it'd be dtsd.
marteen: ben_vulpes: sure
ben_vulpes: marteen: get in the wot then, eh?
marteen: ben_vulpes: I don't know what WoT is though :(
ben_vulpes: dtsd << makes me think of that eegan story asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: linked a bit back
ben_vulpes: !help
brendafdez: marteen they say 6 months is the bare minimum :P
ben_vulpes: oh god now i'm getting spammed by bots
ben_vulpes: trinque: plz to not overload !help
trinque: ben_vulpes: wut
brendafdez: marteen who are you in the list?
ben_vulpes: yous ay it
trinque: !help
trinque: lol
ben_vulpes: hyuuu
marteen: brendafdez: hhmm, I'm not sure I've been there for that long...
marteen: brendafdez: I've never sent anything, just read
trinque: yeah I'll change that
ben_vulpes: marteen: basically it's a gpg-backed ident thinger
ben_vulpes: nobody's going to take you seriously until you buy in
marteen readin about the wot...
ben_vulpes: brendafdez is that weird chick from ba
marteen: ben_vulpes: I see, thanks :)
ben_vulpes: whereas indiancandy is just that hilarious hoo-er
ben_vulpes: difference being...
brendafdez: she has better looking tits
ben_vulpes: that's your insecurity speaking.
ben_vulpes: no, wot participation.
ben_vulpes: we all know how the bsasians are about their 'security'
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 02:09:27; assbot: You know, I've had it up to here with this Indian malarkey.
brendafdez: maarten your IP shows you might be located in Mendoza, that's interesting, I there not long ago, with Sebastián Serrano and others, and we had a couple of presentations and a meetup. Do I know you?
marteen: brendafdez: yes, I'm from Mendoza
marteen: brendafdez: but, I'm afraid we don't know each other :(
marteen: brendafdez: I think I know which events you mention, but I couldn't not attend
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16151 @ 0.00020765 = 3.3538 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: then you must've been there!
brendafdez: We need more sponsors to keep doing that hah, we had a couple for that trip, still didn't even break even
marteen: ben_vulpes: heh, sorry, I meant "I could not" :P
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i give up, how are a practicing gynecologist and a healthy dog the same?
marteen: (it seems I couldn't decide between "I couldn't" and "I could not" :P)
brendafdez: marteen do you use irc often? I was pretty much a virgin before getting into b-a. You could go to the #freenode channel and ask for a cloak, so not everyone will see your IP. Also, you might be interested in registering your username with NickServ so it doesn't get squatted like indiancandy1_ 's
brendafdez: !up marteen
marteen: brendafdez: oh, I've been using irc for a while :)
marteen: brendafdez: my username has been registered for a few years
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1064798 << oh come now it's because your salesforce is down there and sales is nasty dirty work programmer folk hate to do.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 07:55:57; trinque: all my money's coming from tejas; there's a reason for that
marteen: brendafdez: thanks a lot anyway :)
trinque: ben_vulpes: I was pissed
trinque: nbd
ben_vulpes: in more ways than one
trinque: ayep
brendafdez: marteen pretty nice to have a fellow list member over here. Were you reading the list in 2013? It was a space of sane and interesting discussion which has since been lost. That's why I mentioned b-a in my message, bc I htink some of the oldtimers might be interested. Also, we used to have wences and rdponticelli, both of them were also here back in the day.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6982 @ 0.00021108 = 1.4738 BTC [+]
marteen: ;;gpg eregister marteen 050434ED71A1704C
gribble: Request successful for user marteen, hostmask marteen!~martin@190.113.141.247. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/050434ED71A1704C
ben_vulpes: marteen, you'll want to register with assbot for this crowd.
marteen: brendafdez: nope, back in 2013 I had no idea the list existed
marteen: brendafdez: well, I'm glad I came to this channel then :)
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 08:53:20; mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/f54460da0cbc358c33a1304125119cb4/tumblr_mmwqr9Y3Ty1rsze6qo1_1280.jpg << the birth of an idea
marteen: ben_vulpes: oh, sure, let me see...
marteen: !register 050434ED71A1704C
assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.
brendafdez: the whole key id
marteen: oh, I see, thanks...
brendafdez: Key fingerprint = 15F6 BD45 240C 4679 C5F5 59B5 0504 34ED 71A1 704C
ben_vulpes: !register 15F6BD45240C4679C5F559B5050434ED71A1704C
assbot: Nick ben_vulpes is already taken.
ben_vulpes: well duh, assbot.
ben_vulpes: full fingerprint, marteen. "long", as they say.
marteen: !register 15F6BD45240C4679C5F559B5050434ED71A1704C
assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 15F6BD45240C4679C5F559B5050434ED71A1704C. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key 71A1704C / "Martín <martinrd@gmail.com>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
marteen: ben_vulpes: thanks!
ben_vulpes: brendafdez: just out of curiosity, do many people have things delivered across the river and shuttle them over via ferry?
ben_vulpes: !rate marteen 1 new blood
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ad8bfcdd35cd592c
brendafdez: I couldn't possibly know. The only people I know who do it are bringing in stacks of cash
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.marteen.1:7944d2caed41fbbd7aa09e713e695bfc06bea154bf64946071175cb7f764ac6f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for marteen with note: new blood
ben_vulpes: hm well try it and let me know, eh?
brendafdez: ben_vulpes so when do I get my prize for bringing in new blood to please the gods through sacrifice?
ben_vulpes: !rate brendafdez 1 blood for the blood god
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6f4484e018020ae7
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.brendafdez.1:285f1f9f410f44c13ace2538b25bd5d53eec2cc674b822e19fc67a1a35827a2f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for brendafdez with note: blood for the blood god
ben_vulpes: i hope you're happy, jnerula...
brendafdez: ben_vulpes you need someone there you could ship things to?
brendafdez: ben_vulpes I could put you in contact with people who may want to do it, but I think they have their issues with customs too, not as stringent as argentina
ben_vulpes: interested in derpy small-scale arbitrage opportunities.
brendafdez: abritrage :)
ben_vulpes: kind of only insofar as it might get me lower price tickets
ben_vulpes: still fueling this rocket over here.
ben_vulpes: although, entertainingly, every day the election cycle grows closer, babe-o-tron grows more insistent about spending 2016 out of the country.
ben_vulpes: "couldn't agree more, dear."
trinque nods
brendafdez: !gettrust ben_vulpes assbot
assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user assbot: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 9 via 6 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/assbot | http://w.b-a.link/user/assbot
brendafdez: oh, so he still can't voice himself, right?
trinque: !gettrust assbot martin
assbot: martin is not registered in WoT.
trinque: !gettrust assbot marteen
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user marteen: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/marteen | http://w.b-a.link/user/marteen
trinque: derp
brendafdez: oh :)
ben_vulpes: brendafdez: you must be new here :P
trinque: brendafdez: those in L2 or better can voice
brendafdez: ben_vulpes :P i'm am, but i've already fixed the lastness issue. No longer the newest, new flesh blood, and on it goes.
brendafdez: s/flesh/fresh/
ben_vulpes: as far as the wot goes, you are actually the newest member.
brendafdez: why? hasn't he just registered?
ben_vulpes: oh, ah.
ben_vulpes: !gettrust brendafdez
assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user brendafdez: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/brendafdez | http://w.b-a.link/user/brendafdez
ben_vulpes: now's your chance to !up yourself, marteen
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c i've got high hopes for the wot-site -- you set a high bar with WoL
gribble: The operation succeeded.
brendafdez: marteen you can message !up to assbot and verify by decypting the string
marteen: nice... I need to automate this now
ben_vulpes: it's not so bad
ben_vulpes: the voice persists with your connection
marteen: oh, no more 30 minutes?
ben_vulpes: 30 minutes is for strangers
marteen: cool
brendafdez: now whenever you're bored you can read logs or the blogs (http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com). One never reaches the end http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066689
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:39:34; trinque: lol, cmere toddler, check out the deep end
marteen: brendafdez: interesting! thanks :)
marteen: brendafdez: so... you planning on coming back to mendoza soon?
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 16:55:19; nubbins`: mod6 ben_vulpes FWIW 0.5.3.1 downloading blocks on Darwin nubs.local 13.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 13.4.0: Wed Dec 17 19:05:52 PST 2014; root:xnu-2422.115.10~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
brendafdez: well, i don't have plans, but it may happen. The last trip we made as part of the Giras Bitcoiners project was Asunción in Paraguay last December. The funding issue wasn't getting better. Only one of the trips allowed us to break even.
ben_vulpes: okay fine, share your recipe
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i need something beyond "turd" now
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins care to share your darwin recipe?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
brendafdez: This brings us to another issue which is the way the 'foundations' present themselves as as sort of official representation of bitcoin. That way they are better able to get funds from companies which want to be advertised and from membes of the community who want to 'be part of bitcoin'. It's what the FBA was/is doing and what the BF was/is doing on a much larger scale.
marteen: brendafdez: ok, I see
brendafdez: When we presented our project as an independent bunch of guys it wasn't the same.
marteen: makes sense
brendafdez: but who know, neither me nor the other 3 'founders' have buried it, so...
marteen: brendafdez: you mention 'funding issue'... how do you usually get this funding?
brendafdez: it was awesome for us as an experience I must say, getting to know the local communites, to travel so much, also to be able to promote one 'real use case' for bitcoin to local service providers
marteen: of course... I can imagine it must have been a great experience :)
ben_vulpes: burning suckers' cash always is.
brendafdez: through sponsors, we had some of them, bitpagos sponsored every trip, digicoins sponsored the trip to mendoza, beOk sponsored the trip to paraguay
ben_vulpes: hence the startup as flamethrower fueled by bezzlars metaphor.
marteen: brendafdez: aah, cool!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34817 @ 0.00020828 = 7.2517 BTC [-] {4}
brendafdez: but also it was always open to people who wanted to come with us. As generally we weren't even covering the costs, having more poeple participate usually meant each one had to pay a smaller fraction, usually less money.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00021289 = 5.748 BTC [+]
marteen: brendafdez: ah, of course... that's nice
brendafdez: I wanted to write an article on 'bitcon evangelism' or 'selling bitcoin', which of course is selling it to the companies not the people :P
brendafdez: selling the campanies the idea that you'll be selling them with bitcoin to people who attend the talks/conferences/etc
marteen: that would be great
brendafdez: The whole 'evangelism' thing is bullshit, but there are incentives to do it, companies paying for it, who get their money from vcs and desperately need adoption, users, whatever
marteen: well i think we need more companies accepting bitcoin
cazalla: mircea_popescu: why let everyone think beauty and brains don't mix ? <<< get those eyes checked, perhaps same time as indiancandy gets that nose seen too
brendafdez: the point about evangelism is that if you suck the right cock you may make a living out of it. I'm not naming names
marteen: hhmmm, interesting...
marteen: brendafdez: you you can make a living out of it, even being from argentina?
brendafdez: why do we need more companies 'accepting bitcoin'? No, really, why? http://www.contravex.com/2014/02/25/matters-of-bitcoin-merchant-adoption/
assbot: On Matters of Merchant Adoption | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1FSEbaU )
brendafdez: I told you i wasn't even breaking even :P ask the FBA guys, they got funded in late 2012 to do it, and a few who suck theirs get a small part of the cake
marteen: oh, ok...
marteen: well, I mean... I'd like to buy more things more directly with bitcoin...
brendafdez: you can sell the bitcoin and buy with fiat,
cazalla: brendafdez: indiancandy they are awesome <3 those tits. I feel guilty now that I made you start posting pics :) <<< great tits, great body, but what a busted face she has
brendafdez: if you hold gold you dont need merchants to accept gold
marteen: brendafdez: yea, but that's still pretty inconvenient (selling btc for fiat)
brendafdez: why is it? bc there are no people doing it cash in mendoza? i know for a fact thats not the acse
brendafdez: if you were in a small town and no bank account then maybe inconvenient
marteen: I don't know any people here in mendoza that provide that service
marteen: and still, it's an extra step
brendafdez: santiago castiglione travels there often bringing cash, the two btb braindamaged morons do it, if you can stand their stupidity. Tha saner person in Mendoiza is Adriel Araujo from Bitpagos. Contact him, he'll be able to help you, no doubt.
marteen: and if it involves a bank account, then that adds to the inconveniency
marteen: brendafdez: wow, thanks for all this info :)
marteen: anyway, even if there's availability of btc <-> fiat services, i'd much rather avoid the intermediaries (and the banks)
brendafdez: the banks can be avoided entirely. The intermediary is not a must. You can just get in contact with other people, publish your own listings and such. When you're paying with bitcoin, they are selling the bitcoin, so the cost is also there. In Argentina anyway pretty much no transactions at PoS are made in bitcoin, it's just a show for companies which pretend to be doing busniess helping merchants accept bitcoin
brendafdez: If mircea or pete were online and willing to discuss it, it would be easier, they have a more solid and convincing rhetoric than I could dream of myself
brendafdez: but it's problematic for many reasons to think that the value of bitcoin is to be able to pay coffe at a shop
brendafdez: bitcoin is like gold. And gold is no less valuable when you can't spend it at a coffe shop. And even if there are large costs to exchange such modest amounts of gold or silver
marteen: hmm, ok... I think I understand your point
brendafdez: There was a point in bitcoin history when bitcoin was basically free, it had no monetary value, at least during 2009, and mostly also 2010, now it would be unthinkablee
brendafdez: In the future we'll look back and wonder how bitcoin transactions used to be free, when they have large costs involved and it needs be so to keep the network secure
brendafdez: so when blocks fill up and transactions start competing and miner subsidy goes down halving after halving the cost issue of why its not for coffee will be clearer
marteen: but I would still like to be able to make small electronic value transactions without recurring to a central trusted party though
marteen: would this be possible?
marteen: ever?
brendafdez: i'm not sure, there are alternatvies, alternative chains, sidechains, whatever, which certainly can't compete with bitcoin.
brendafdez: right now bitcoin is an alternative even for coffee
brendafdez: however i doubt it's a better technology than handning a piece of paper in exchange for drinks
marteen: hhmmm, i don't like these papers
brendafdez: print your own
marteen: hehe
ben_vulpes suspects a sybil
brendafdez: after all, fiat and the monopoly of money by the state has been going for barely a century.
brendafdez may be saying lots of bullshit here. Hope to get corrected.
brendafdez: for most all the rest of human history private money was no big deal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26831 @ 0.00021616 = 5.7998 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5569 @ 0.00021944 = 1.2221 BTC [+]
assbot: Bug 1202858 – restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*) ... ( http://bit.ly/1BK4DNV )
marteen: brendafdez: btw, thanks for taking the time to explain all this to me :)
brendafdez: that's where we're heading back with bitcoin, taking away the power of the government. Sometimes one loses the big picture. Taking the ability of the government corporation to finance itself through robbery (taxes) and deceit (inflation) is important. Decentralizing coffy purchases at small shops maybe not so much. You could do it in centralized brandatokens and get your bitcoin sent at the end of the day. If I charge you much you go
brendafdez: indiancandytokens instead.
marteen: i find it all really interesting
marteen: ohh, yea, that last part I could accept
brendafdez: it's not that bad having centralized private tokens.
marteen: I agree with that
brendafdez: for certain use cases.
marteen: the key there is that it should be very easy and almost free for anyone to create a centralized private token
BingoBoingo: brendafdez> bitcoin is like gold. And gold is no less valuable when you can't spend it at a coffe shop. And even if there are large costs to exchange such modest amounts of gold or silver << It going take some intermediate step. Instead of trading you highly valuable Bitcoin/Plutonium for coffee you trade it for big bundle of credits at the coffee shop or whatever the local cash sustomarily used for small value trades is
brendafdez: but for quite a while there's been a trend to sell 'decentralization of your grandma through smart contracts in the blockchain' as the next big thing, that's maybe just smoke and meaningless bullshit to appeal to the vcs
brendafdez: BingoBoingo brendatokens would be fine.
marteen: coffeetokens
marteen: I can trust my coffee shop
brendafdez: if they can trust you back, especially now that youre in the wot you could pay with your own
marteen: and I can even trust the 'verdulero', etc., but i definitely don't trust my bank
assbot: Shelling Out -- The Origins of Money ... ( http://bit.ly/1BK562B )
marteen: brendafdez: thanks, I saved it for reading it later
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12591 @ 0.00021946 = 2.7632 BTC [+] {2}
brendafdez: There's also qntra, it's the sane place to get your bitcoin cup of coffee without all the CoinDesk shit
brendafdez: that's where one goes when time's not enough to read logs and blogs :P
marteen: nice, thanks
brendafdez: Next time I'll see BingoBoingo I'll try to get him to gpg sign something that says they want my Spanish translations :P
brendafdez: *Next time I see BingoBoingo really drunk
brendafdez: I was going to say
brendafdez: Sadly he will not be coming to the conference, so I can't put substances in his drink to make him open the keyring (?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 10000 @ 0.00020865 = 2.0865 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20509 @ 0.00022537 = 4.6221 BTC [+]
cazalla: <brendafdez> Next time I'll see BingoBoingo I'll try to get him to gpg sign something that says they want my Spanish translations :P <<< did we not make it clear that they are wanted?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5041 @ 0.00022041 = 1.1111 BTC [-]
cazalla: my suggested would be to set you up on es.qntra.net, but ask mircea_popescu and BingoBoingo for their thoughts
cazalla: suggestion* even
cazalla: alternatively, translate the spanish bitcoin news to english and have it on main qntra
mircea_popescu: es. works
assbot: Bug 1202858 – restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xecN5z )
mircea_popescu: now that's behaviour i can get behind!
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 06:11:21; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i give up, how are a practicing gynecologist and a healthy dog the same?
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067250 << agreed, guy's incredibly talented for web design without being retarded. he ruined all sorts of pet theories with that.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 06:44:05; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c i've got high hopes for the wot-site -- you set a high bar with WoL
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067273 << scammers will scam. unavoidable with any new thing.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 07:00:23; brendafdez: This brings us to another issue which is the way the 'foundations' present themselves as as sort of official representation of bitcoin. That way they are better able to get funds from companies which want to be advertised and from membes of the community who want to 'be part of bitcoin'. It's what the FBA was/is doing and what the BF was/is doing on a much larger scale.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 07:14:17; cazalla: mircea_popescu: why let everyone think beauty and brains don't mix ? <<< get those eyes checked, perhaps same time as indiancandy gets that nose seen too
mircea_popescu: ahh check it out, everyone's asleep, i got the whole multiplex all to myself.
jurov: heh i just woke up
mircea_popescu: top o' the mornin' for you.
mircea_popescu: hey, i recall your friend that was going to help with eulora for windows. he ever got in wot ?
jurov: not heard from him since :(
mircea_popescu: any way to ping him ?
jurov: will email/phone him
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067323 << check it out, all the stuff brenda figured out on her own. pretty quick twist eh.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 07:39:37; brendafdez: so when blocks fill up and transactions start competing and miner subsidy goes down halving after halving the cost issue of why its not for coffee will be clearer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28712 @ 0.00022758 = 6.5343 BTC [+]
assbot: Bug 1202858 – restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xedMTv )
mircea_popescu: lol even found the old szabo threads and everything. i'm curious what comes of this.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony oddly, was in log.
mircea_popescu: which... i grant you... figure the fucking odds.
mircea_popescu: fucking groupthink in here i swear.
mircea_popescu: you people are worse than slackernews.
mircea_popescu: cazalla you know how to set that shit up tho ?
mircea_popescu: probably the easiest way would be to just create the es. en. spaces and install a fresh wordpress for es.
mircea_popescu: seeing how wp does not actually support multilanguage natively.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00022758 = 3.7551 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00022793 = 1.926 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: O.o :P dat log.. fake indiancandy?
mircea_popescu: who's to know.
mircea_popescu: "Iran will emerge, whether we like it or not, as the central power in their sphere," said Aaron David Miller, an analyst at the Wilson Center and former State Department official.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30950 @ 0.00022317 = 6.9071 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: omnipotent impotence! make way! all hail!
assbot: Drone shot down by Syria vexes Pentagon, White House ... ( http://bit.ly/1GOIum7 )
mircea_popescu: methinks the entrie drone thing is getting abandoned eventually. they don't actually seem to work worth a shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53338 @ 0.00022189 = 11.8352 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9862 @ 0.00023126 = 2.2807 BTC [+]
mats: wtt is going on with the share price
mats: im hemorrhaging money
mircea_popescu: yeah down for what, two weeks straight by now ?
mats: something like that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12525 @ 0.00023126 = 2.8965 BTC [+]
punkman: mats, you just gotta buy more now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00023056 = 4.6112 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: or sell, lol
punkman: maybe the shareholders didn't like that all new accounts are depositing to private addresses?
mircea_popescu: timing seems off.
punkman: !t m s.qntra
assbot: Yeah. No damn tobacco, that's for sure.
mircea_popescu: 4 letters.
mircea_popescu: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 7D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00024954 / 0.000301 (46659 shares, 11.64 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00022635 = 2.2635 BTC [-]
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/house-of-games/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00022693 = 3.3813 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: methinks the entrie drone thing is getting abandoned eventually. they don't actually seem to work worth a shit << whatcha talking about, they're as good for rocketing trucks full of unarmed people as they ever were...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00022706 = 3.9963 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 'restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*)' << not bug, pheature!
asciilifeform: 'Я просто кончил :) красношляп доставляет!' << from comments
mircea_popescu: if they ever get close to a truck.
asciilifeform: approx. 'i simply cummed. redhat's simply something'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the way the machines are typically used is that usg knows precisely where the truck will be
asciilifeform: at time t
asciilifeform: often because someone inside has a phone or is otherwise pissing rf
asciilifeform: (or did at any point while truck was moving)
mircea_popescu: provided of course they're not in range of fire,
mircea_popescu: or of gsm jamming. or etc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21595 @ 0.00022549 = 4.8695 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you mean gps jam ?
asciilifeform: a little high for rifle, but a ww2-era airplane could take it down.
asciilifeform: none of the american unmanned machines have any defensive armaments.
asciilifeform: (they are not built to fight, but to assassinate)
asciilifeform: 'predator', interestingly, has a top speed similar to a decent car's.
asciilifeform: a small flying machine 'toy' could easily catch up with it.
asciilifeform: payload can be ordinary thermite.
asciilifeform: (the 'no defenses' thing is not strictly true, at one point 'predator' was fitted with a small anti-aircraft rocket, iirc in gulfwar-2)
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065272 << christ what are you doing << 8)
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 16:55:19; nubbins`: mod6 ben_vulpes FWIW 0.5.3.1 downloading blocks on Darwin nubs.local 13.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 13.4.0: Wed Dec 17 19:05:52 PST 2014; root:xnu-2422.115.10~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i need something beyond "turd" now << wai wat
nubbins`: i'll put together a makefile.osx and some modification instructions that you can ritually burn
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you really need a working crapple build i think mod6 had one
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but consider reconsidering
nubbins`: <--working crapple build
nubbins`: currently block182959
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thousands of sex offenders << my understanding is that the lion's share of these are 'statutory' violators
nubbins`: anyway it's srsly two sed commands and a new makefile
nubbins`: to modify 0.5.3.1 for darwin/osx
nubbins`: probably bsd as well, i guess
asciilifeform: aha there we go.
asciilifeform: perhaps we can do, e.g., vms, next.
asciilifeform: or TOPS-10
nubbins`: (example: sed 's/MSG_NOSIGNAL/SO_NOSIGPIPE/' on two files is approx. half the work)
nubbins`: haha man, i had to use a VMS system on my first work term
nubbins`: i'm still not sure wtf that was
asciilifeform: the non-retarded sibling of unix
nubbins`: it was always a case of "please check this before i hit enter"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` publish
nubbins`: will do later today
asciilifeform: i'm actually rather surprised that nobody's clamouring to reintroduce winblows build
asciilifeform: one would think somebody has a botnet deployment to consider
nubbins`: asciilifeform speaks to the preferences of the room, i guess
asciilifeform: i zapped the win32 ifdefs on account of them cluttering up my reading material, and for no particular other reason
asciilifeform: (would have done the same for nintendo ifdefs if there had been any)
asciilifeform: incidentally, the ifdef-iness of bitcoind speaks for the horrendous mega-ugly of cpp
nubbins`: ^ ha
asciilifeform: which lacks even such an elementary thing as mix-ins
asciilifeform: Adlai ^
nubbins`: << had to sacrifice a few IFDEFS from makefile.osx
asciilifeform: (the one other fella here who might know what i speak of)
nubbins`: i'll warn that this is *not* a svelte makefile, more fat can almost certainly be trimmed. this is simply a "compiles, runs" thing
asciilifeform: nubbins`: any changes -not- in common with openbsd ?
asciilifeform: out of curiosity
nubbins`: sum total of changes: modify SSL_ARCH_TYPE to Darwin64-x86_64-cc
nubbins`: replace sha256sum with shasum -a 256
nubbins`: replace MSG_NOSIGNAL flag with SO_NOSIGPIPE
asciilifeform: starting from item 3, is in bitcoind proper ?
nubbins`: yes, started from 0.5.3 base
nubbins`: irc.cpp and net.cpp
asciilifeform: was asking, whether any but the last item (signals) concerned bitcoind source itself
nubbins`: ah, right. no
nubbins`: the signals thing is the only actual code change
nubbins`: random forum quote: "In linux sockets (BSD 4.4 compliant) there something called MSG_NOSIGNAL"
nubbins`: so without having the ability to check, i'd advance that SO_NOSIGPIPE might be an osx-specific fix
Adlai: my pet theory of late is that satoshi intentionally built 0.1 on winblows as a red herring
nubbins`: oh and the 0.5.3 makefile.osx doesn't have *any* of the hardening stuff that makefile.unix does
nubbins`: so uh, there's that
nubbins`: but again. PoC here.
nubbins`: it compiles.
nubbins`: was able to find equivalents for most, but not all, of the hardening compile options
jurov: http://bturn.com/10286/soviet-erotic-alphabet :B mircea_popescu asciilifeform
assbot: Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpCxgG )
jurov: лoл
mircea_popescu: notbad.jpg
nubbins`: ahhh... hot coffee, cool code, and les deux rondes
nubbins`: notbad.tuesday
jurov: nubbins`: you can use these as illuminations for alf's book
asciilifeform: 'в советском союзе секса нету!' (TM)
nubbins`: that's one way to fight illiteracy
nubbins`: lel @ drawing for Ʒ
nubbins`: is that /pan/ about to poke someone?
nubbins`: nm, that's not a flute
nubbins`: *only one
nubbins`: mega-lel @ top 4 comments
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35950 @ 0.00022418 = 8.0593 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Spare a thought for the Western men trapped in Japan | The Japan Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpIgTz )
nubbins`: tldr "i thought setting down roots in a foreign country where i'm a visible minority who doesn't understand the language or culture would be EASY but it's HARD"
asciilifeform: nubbins`: there was an entire newsgroup for these folks (and 'candidates') once - soc.culture.japan
asciilifeform: i used to read it.
nubbins`: "dave's ESL cafe" full of similar
nubbins`: with more of a lean towards korea
asciilifeform: the 'pathology' was that these people imagined they wanted to move to japan, but what they -actually- wanted was: -to have always lived there-
asciilifeform: and that wasn't on the menu.
nubbins`: i, on the other hand, thought setting down roots in above would be HARD but it was only MODERATELY DIFFICULT AND SOMETIMES FRUSTRATING
nubbins`: asciilifeform +1000
nubbins`: they wanted the trappings of japanese without being japanese :D
asciilifeform: the more serious ones wanted to 'be japanese'
asciilifeform: but this doesn't work unless, well, you are
nubbins`: oh hmm, the manga fans and neckbeards who say "that's so kawaii"
nubbins`: a lot of them don't make it to japan
asciilifeform: the only reason why jp is still interesting to anybody is precisely that these folks -can't- get in their wot
nubbins`: the ones that do, i truly pity
nubbins`: because they quickly alienate themselves from the locals as well as the other foreigners
Adlai: especially that one guy
asciilifeform: the foreigners who are in jp for the long haul, are typically on serious business and live among their own kind.
nubbins`: the one with the blond ponytail and a dragon painted on his jeans in the subway? yeah, that guy
nubbins`: asciilifeform +1
Adlai: no, the one with the frapuccino
Adlai: although it's a little hard to pity him, given the nonzero chance that he also has a few coins
nubbins`: there's a term in korea for young people who live poor at home so they can buy frappucinos in public
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
nubbins`: Adlai disposable income in .jp might not be as much as you think
asciilifeform: reworked units appear to pass basic test
nubbins`: dat smt
asciilifeform: fifth photo shows replaced cap
nubbins`: by hand?
asciilifeform: presumably
asciilifeform: they did it, not me
nubbins`: steady as she goes!
asciilifeform: probably with 'hot tweezer'
asciilifeform: (tool used for such occasions)
Adlai: this seems like a fairly ideal domain for another one of those robotics startups
asciilifeform: Adlai: what is
Adlai: testing individual components to confirm that they meet spec, soldering them onto the pcb
nubbins`: speaking of soldering tools, anyone ever used one of those "cold heat" (resistance based) soldering tools?
asciilifeform: Adlai: actually, pick'n'place machines build in the '80s did this as routine matter
asciilifeform: nubbins`: aha
asciilifeform: nubbins`: pretty worthless, imho
nubbins`: suspected as much
Adlai prefers the smell of lead in the head
asciilifeform: nubbins`: but -looks- impressive, yes
nubbins` is clumsy
asciilifeform: sorta like a spot welder
nubbins`: good luck tinning the tip of it ;p
asciilifeform: (for those innocent of the thing - it was simply a box with battery, and tipped with a small carboniferous fork. stick the fork on solder ball, it melts...)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34850 @ 0.00021903 = 7.6332 BTC [-] {3}
Adlai: one of my first ever mind=blown moments was seeing a solder removal wick
asciilifeform: Adlai: anyway, what i was saying was that it was once not uncommon for components to be measured before placement. but guess what, in modern world this is 'unnecessary' we're told.
nubbins`: Adlai heh
asciilifeform: solder wick << aha, it behaves just like any other liquid.
nubbins`: was your second moment putting a wilted celery stalk in a glass of water? :D
danielpbarron: height=295140 vs height=215904
nubbins`: today i learned that the cost of a variable dc power supply is much less than i'd imagined
nubbins`: me rummages for credit card
nubbins`: ^ + /
asciilifeform: nubbins`: mine was fiddybux or so
nubbins`: nod, clean used ones on ebay for about the same
asciilifeform: (appears in one of the photos linked earlier, displaying supply voltage and current consumption of rng)
asciilifeform: yeah it was used
danielpbarron: !up Bagels7
nubbins`: been wanting one ever since EE labs in uni
asciilifeform: had to be resoldered for american mains (move to center tap of transformer) as it was brit-made
nubbins`: somehow never bothered to even /price/ them
asciilifeform: it is very difficult to do anything seriously electronic without one
asciilifeform: avoid the chinese ones, they not only have fans (yes) but plenty of ripple in the dc
asciilifeform: (at any rate, if buying chinese, do it somewhere you can return if necessary and measure the ripple)
nubbins`: i generally avoid chinese-made anything
nubbins`: phun phact, you can get a flash dryer for curing plastisol inks for $800 (american-made) or $300 (chinese-made)
nubbins`: the $800 one has a massive network of tiny coils to evenly heat the shirt
asciilifeform: what size/shape is the heat bed ?
nubbins`: the $300 one has... a domestic oven element. http://imgur.com/KJqDivg
nubbins`: various sizes, ours is 16x16". pizza box profile
nubbins`: the really nice ones ($3k+) use quartz tubes
asciilifeform: nubbins`: you know, the oven heater would work fine if you had a thermal buffer (think 'pizza stone') between it and the payload
asciilifeform: it is how i reflow boards on a hob
nubbins`: that's what the mesh screen is attempting/failing to do
asciilifeform: the mesh screen is not a buffer !
nubbins`: nope. :D
asciilifeform: no thermal mass to speak of, in it
nubbins`: but there nonetheless, to give the appearance
asciilifeform: just pointing out that it isn't even trying
asciilifeform: whereas the 'network of tiny coils' is likewise unnecessary
asciilifeform: scylla and charybdis of chinesecrud and americangoldentoilet !
nubbins`: ^ chinese unit from afar
nubbins`: thermal buffer = massively long heat-up times, additional weight
nubbins`: now here's a funny thing: supposing that flash was made not-in-china. now it's $800. to add a dwell timer, a servo motor, and a foot pedal: extra $800.
asciilifeform: the 'correct' solution is probably ir lamp.
asciilifeform: fast heat, fast cool
asciilifeform: and 100% even
nubbins`: nod. i have a link here.
nubbins`: competition uses IR flash
nubbins`: with optional proximity sensor!
nubbins`: in a perfect world i'd buy one of those
nubbins`: proximity sensor = turn off brain when printing
nubbins`: no sensor/no pedal: 10-second timer running in your head at all times
asciilifeform: in other news, lee kuan yew is dead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00022344 = 5.6083 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: greatest wisdom of this ruler was, iirc, 'when you come to power, begin by putting three of your closest friends in jail. you already know -what for-, and they also know -what for.-'
nubbins`: wisdom indeed
nubbins`: incidentally, the conveyor oven used for final cure has these same black-body panels inside
nubbins` had to play electrician for a day when all this equipment showed up
nubbins` will have to play electrician again in a month's time when we upgrade to 240v flash unit
asciilifeform: in other news,
nubbins`: nerding out on equipment is phun
asciilifeform: 'They are looking for the people who are in this room right now: you will be the target. Not because you are a terrorist, not because you are suspected of any criminal wrongdoing, but because you have access to systems, you have access to infrastructure, you have access to the private records, people's private lives. These are the things that they want.'
assbot: Snowden: IT workers are now the target of spies | ZDNet ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcN27J )
nubbins`: my face when i found unfiltered blacklight bulbs that peak at the *exact* wavelength my emulsion is most sensitive to
asciilifeform: 'No wonder foreign husbands often complain about Japanese women suddenly transforming from sweet and cute girlfriends into shufu — professional housewives emotionally and physically distant from their husbands and fully devoted to their children and home.' << dependopotamus (TM) !
nubbins`: put another way: those who are unable to judge the character/nature of others are more likely to wish for escape, and their disability follows them to their new life, where they make the same sort of mistakes they'd make at home
nubbins`: "nobody understands me at home"
nubbins`: no, you don't understand anybody, period. moving to jp will not fix this.
nubbins`: if anything, exacerbate
nubbins`: oh hey
assbot: Young girl struck by school bus in Mary Queen of the World parking lot - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcRbZq )
nubbins`: my alma mater
nubbins`: phun phact, when i was five years old, i missed getting run over by a taxi in this same parking lot by about 6 inches
nubbins`: that was when i learned you don't run on parking lots when they're covered in gravel
asciilifeform: 'no, you don't understand anybody, period. moving to jp will not fix this' << what kind of folks are you thinking of ?
asciilifeform: (who 'don't understand anybody')
nubbins`: i'm thinking of roughly half the foreigners i met while teaching overseas
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38250 @ 0.00021607 = 8.2647 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: there's about a 50/50 split between "young people who want to see the world, travel, pay off debt" and "weirdos escaping to start over"
nubbins`: it's much, much easier to cover up idiosyncrasies if there's a language and culture barrier in the way
assbot: 'I'm shocked': Corner Brook woman fined $250 for sealskin purse - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcSQ18 )
nubbins`: "My major concern at the time, because I travel to the states every now and then, is there going to be a red flag when they scan my passport? Is something going to show that I'm bringing in endangered whatever?" <<< yes, with 100% certainty.
nubbins` gets the VIP treatment every time due to an incident involving some undeclared goods
nubbins`: "She doesn't expect to ever see her bag again, but has received multiple offers from people who want to replace her purse." WHAT
nubbins`: this woman has enough disposable income that NOT ONLY does she own a sealskin fucking purse, but she regularly travels internationally to SHOP
nubbins`: and people are offering to buy her a new purse.
nubbins`: because newfy.
asciilifeform: reminds me of how when clinton was half-heartedly prosecuting microshit for antitrust violations, some 'think tank' (cato? i forget) had a 'microsoft defense fund' that the public was invited to contribute to !
asciilifeform: or how a firm i once worked for, that shall remain nameless, invited the public to contribute spare change to one of its (congressionally-funded!) wunderwaffen projects that will 'help save our boys in iraq'
asciilifeform: (last i checked, a few yrs ago, the donation button was still there!)
nubbins`: the gall, hey?
asciilifeform: and the obligatory orwell observation,
asciilifeform: 'Until recently the characteristic adventure stories of the English-speaking peoples have been stories in which the hero fights against odds. This is true all the way from Robin Hood to Pop-eye the Sailor. Perhaps the basic myth of the Western world is Jack the Giant-killer, but to be brought up to date this should be renamed Jack the Dwarf-killer, and there already exists a considerable literature which teaches, either overtl
asciilifeform: y or implicitly, that one should side with the big man against the little man. Most of what is now written about foreign policy is simply an embroidery on this theme...'
assbot: Bill C-51 hearings: First Nations activists, Toronto police to testify - Politics - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPCSIn )
nubbins`: first nations activists are generally pretty hardass
nubbins`: the protest crowd could learn some lessons from em
nubbins`: altho TBF "get the fuck off our land" doesn't work if you're a kid in downtown montreal
assbot: The astounding rise of China's currency: Don Pittis - Business - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcX7lg )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.00022192 = 7.9891 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: nubbins`: it is being felt. i distinctly recall watching some trashy american adventure film a year or two ago, involving time travel to the future, and the hero had a treasure chest under his floorboards with thick stacks of yuan
nubbins`: i sorta feel like getting on the yuan train
asciilifeform: nubbins`: problem is, that train doesn't go anywhere you would want to be.
nubbins`: shit, there was a Crichton book (sphere?) where the future coca-cola cans were all in chinese
nubbins`: asciilifeform what's my other choice, CAD? :D
asciilifeform: nubbins`: unlike, apparently, most other beggars, i won't give investment advice.
nubbins`: mark of a wise man
asciilifeform: it isn't a problem that i have
asciilifeform: and hence i cannot suggest solutions to it
asciilifeform: having no experience or opportunity to practice whatsoever.
asciilifeform: (i don't knowingly participate in chumpatrons and hence haven't and won't be buying fiat stocks at 10-20bux/trade)
nubbins`: i'm not saying i'll remortgage the house or anything
nubbins`: but it'd be fun to add a few k's worth of yuan to the basket
asciilifeform: if can afford to lose in the casino - why not
nubbins`: a small amount of "can afford to lose, why not try btc" in 2012 provides the opportunity for "can afford to lose, why not try ___" in 2015
assbot: Francis Boucher, son of Hells Angels leader, accidentally released from jail - Montreal - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gd1Ov6 )
nubbins`: hahahaha. "accidentally".
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i am waiting to hear of afghanistan-style jailbreaks in usa
asciilifeform: the kind involving armoured trucks, rockets, demolition charges
nubbins`: i.e. "hundreds escape"?
asciilifeform: and one or two are removed by the 'rescuers' for proper (i.e. heads-off) justice
nubbins`: restorative justice, this 8)
nubbins`: i.e. let's restore your meat to its natural state
assbot: Police unable to confirm gang rape at University of Virginia | The Japan Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPHIVV )
asciilifeform: rounds off with some lulz,
asciilifeform: 'Longo said the case is suspended, not closed. He said the fact that investigators could not find evidence “doesn’t mean that something terrible didn’t happen to Jackie.”'
nubbins`: ...which is generally true, but probably not in this case.
nubbins`: note how the emphasis is on the feels ^
nubbins`: not be as valuable as you could be
nubbins`: just feel it
asciilifeform: iirc the case in that article ended with police finding no one on the planet remotely matching the description of the perpetrator
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: name, description...
nubbins`: "turns out the complainant didn't even have any orifices"
nubbins`: what was it, rolling stone or smth that broke the story?
asciilifeform: the former i think
assbot: Iraq mission: Stephen Harper recommits to coalition against ISIS - Politics - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gd4gSy )
nubbins`: if there's one thing that will stabilise the region, it's a year of bombings
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00021826 = 1.8116 BTC [-]
assbot: Communication Security Establishment's cyberwarfare toolbox revealed - Canada - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPJwyl )
nubbins`: pretty light on content, that article
nubbins`: slideshow on bottom ("CSE's toolbox") is 100% generalities
asciilifeform: mega-snore
nubbins`: "toolbox" = general trade practices
asciilifeform: reads like disinfo
asciilifeform: in the sense that if you kidnapped a generic american undergrad, chained him in a cellar, and didn't let him out until he reads the snowden dumps and craps out a deck of 'plausible' canadian slides, the result is likely to be something like the above.
asciilifeform: then again, these people have long ago crossed the parody horizon.
asciilifeform: at least the ones from whom there are leaks.
asciilifeform: there has yet to be ONE SINGLE cryptologist leak.
asciilifeform: from anywhere in the usg empire.
mats: they know better.
nubbins`: guess they really do screen candidates for some fields, hey?
nubbins`: or, put another way, what mats said
asciilifeform: picture you're taking a hill
asciilifeform: there is a machine gun nest on the hill
asciilifeform: the gun is silent.
asciilifeform: is it because gunner is dead?
asciilifeform: or is he waiting for you to come closer?
mats: living a life of secrecy is hard as it is
asciilifeform: now, afaik all available evidence suggests that american cryptological establishment is occupied mainly with crafting monstrosities like dual_ec_drbg - rather than actually breaking 'real' crypto
asciilifeform: but the available evidence is very, very thin.
nubbins`: i think they'd be remiss if they weren't working on both.
asciilifeform: !s rsa pill
assbot: 6 results for 'rsa pill' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rsa+pill
asciilifeform: ^ pointing n00bs to logs
mats: i'm not convinced dual_ec_drbg is rigged
asciilifeform: mats: see the old thread re: malice and incompetence
asciilifeform: mats: next we know, you'll suggest that hearbleed was a traditional bug ?
mats: for the record, there is still absolutely zero solid evidence that Dual_EC_DRBG is backdoored. the Snowden leaks never mention it by name, never talk about backdooring a CSPRNG, and indeed never talk about backdooring anything. the extent of what they mention is that NSA wanted to 'influence standards'
asciilifeform: mats: nope
asciilifeform: mats: several of the documents (in particular, one classification-level guide) mention subversion of commercial products specifically.
nubbins`: "Protects exploitation of specific communications associated with ... money laundering ... and targets of interest"
mats: ive personally confirmed with schneier - in person - and have second-hand confirmations by others who have interacted with recipients of leaks
nubbins`: codeword STRESSFUL
asciilifeform: (-which products- was redacted by the greenwald gang)
asciilifeform: mats: the word of schneier is worth less than zero here.
nubbins`: didn't schneier advocate windows as an acceptable PGP machine?
asciilifeform: he is a known stooge
mats: the 2006 analysis and subsequent cryptanalytic work stand on their own when it comes to making the case for suspicion of a backdoor, but lets stay within the realm of reason here
nubbins`: as long as you installed all yr updates?!?!
asciilifeform: mats: let me rephrase. i advocate that it is -wrong- to treat any case like dual_ec as anything other than sabotage
nubbins`: mats it's worth mentioning that most of what snowden revealed was not considered "within the realm of reason" by many, before the fact
asciilifeform: because 'i accidentally the bug' can never be proven
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...'
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:35:49; asciilifeform: if you create a 'heartbleed' - you are a вредитель. and whether you did it intentionally, given the impossibility of proof - does not matter.
nubbins`: PIEDMONT: "Provides protection to NSA's bottom line capabilities to exploit SIGINT targets by attacking the hard mathematical problems underlying public key cryptography as well as any future technologies as may be developed"
mats: i hate discussing these things with you people
asciilifeform: nubbins`: that plus another directorate name is pretty much all we publicly have on the 'directorate of breaking pgp'
nubbins`: PAWLEYS, PENDLETON
asciilifeform: mats: very curious now - why ?
mats: its always bogeymen, can't have serious discussion
asciilifeform: mats: a serious discussion would involve what?
nubbins`: OPALESCE sounds like keyboard rf sniffing
asciilifeform: the mathematics, disembodied ?
asciilifeform: i am quite able to discuss the mathematics
asciilifeform: but it did not come from god - it came from people
asciilifeform: who want their faces to stay hidden
asciilifeform: one -must- ask - why
nubbins`: mats i understand your viewpoint but plz to understand that paranoia has proved to be justified time and again
nubbins`: while one may feel silly taking the paranoid stance as the default.... we're just evaluating the evidence as presented
asciilifeform: nearly everything i and fellow paranoiac crackpots have ever spoken about crypto has proven to be abundantly justified.
asciilifeform: justification coming out of our ears, arses
asciilifeform: enough for anyone, i'd think, at this point
nubbins`: i think the overwhelming amount of justification triggers a "this CAN'T be true" response in a lot of people
asciilifeform: once you amputate your vestigial 'this can't be true' organ, you are left with only your understanding of the physical world to go on
asciilifeform: unfortunately, for most of the folks who do this, it ends in a belief in unidentified flying proctologists
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: the gasenwagen, it can't be true.
asciilifeform: but if you have the upbringing of a thinking (that is, polymathic) person - you can get somewhere.
nubbins`: the usa invading a foreign country on 100% false pretenses, it can't be true
mats: look, i'm putting my skepticism on the record. if there was evidence, it'd look like 'Tor Stinks' or the slides from Der Spiegel's work on the Belgacom pwnage. i'm not saying that Dual_EC_DRBG doesn't have obvious flaws or that anyone should continue using it, but my skepticism regarding it being an intentional backdoor remains
nubbins`: all american internet traffic flowing through an NSA closet in an at&t building -- it can't be true
asciilifeform: mats: at the risk of repeating myself, i will phrase my position as a kind of maxim: 'it is necessary to behave as if hearbleed and dual_ec were crafted vulns, regardless of any apparent evidence to the contrary'
mats: the whole 'NSA is undermining all crypto standards!' meme is overplayed
asciilifeform: this is a fairly outlandish thing on the surface, and i will justify it with something like 'pascal's wager'
nubbins`: 1% chance of it being an intentional backdoor is 1000x the proof you need to not use it
asciilifeform: thing is, there are not so many good opportunities for crafted vulns, and the usg folks know it. hence they try to cultivate an overall maggoty flavour in software culture at large
asciilifeform: e.g. poettering and his merry men
asciilifeform: in hopes that the maggots will hatch naturally
asciilifeform: this doesn't even require very much support
asciilifeform: just a strategic lack of support for anything which might poison the maggots.
fluffypony: I think it's very hard to tell the difference between mistake and malice.
fluffypony: (in this instance)
nubbins`: fluffypony +1
asciilifeform: so it is not necessary to -believe- that every single bug is deliberately crafted
thestringpuller: is there really a difference?
asciilifeform: but it is necessary to -behave- as if they were
asciilifeform: is this too subtle for people ?
thestringpuller: isn't there that saying, "Road to hell something something good intentions?"
fluffypony: thestringpuller: mistakes don't always stem from incompetence
nubbins`: sometimes it's carelessness!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00021826 = 3.9832 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: aka apathy?
assbot: SafeCurves:Introduction ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPPcs0 )
nubbins`: asciilifeform put another way: not everyone has syphilis, but you'd be remiss not to wrap it up when sexing a stranger
fluffypony: DJB believes secp256k1 is broken
asciilifeform: nubbins`: very much the wrong analogy
asciilifeform: because it had nothing to do with probabilities
asciilifeform: the original idea, that is
nubbins`: hm, true
asciilifeform: it has to do with the impossibility of knowing intent
nubbins`: maybe intent is to give you the clap
asciilifeform: all you have to go on, when answering the question 'usg stooge or not' is - 'by their fruits you will know them'
asciilifeform: there is literally nothing else (other than a certain measure of 'guilt by association')
asciilifeform: and aside from stooges and people, there also exist useful idiots
asciilifeform: which is to say, folks who are acting in the interests of usg but do not consciously know it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu uses word 'asset' for both, but they are distinct animals
asciilifeform: every intelligence service on the planet has own jargon word for these
asciilifeform: yes, some crypto designers make mistake, they are good people, sure, whatever. i will borrow from slavoj žižek and say then 'we put them to a good wall, shoot them with a good bullet from a good gun, and bury them in with a good shove in the good earth' - since sure, they are good people.
asciilifeform: *shovel
asciilifeform: for the bad people - who deliberately sabotaged algo - bad wall, bad bullet, ..., bad earth
nubbins`: gun was bad so we had to use the bayonets
asciilifeform: bayonets so bad - spoons.
asciilifeform: but overall picture should be clear at this point.
nubbins`: the shovel was bad but wolves are always hungry
fluffypony: wait so we should have no crypto designers?
asciilifeform: fluffypony did not get it
asciilifeform: we presently have many sappers
asciilifeform: how many mistakes does a sapper make ?
nubbins`: the crypto designer errs but once
fluffypony: and then we shoot him
asciilifeform: or at least fire him
fluffypony gets his shotgun and his pitchfork
asciilifeform: let him earn a living in some other way
fluffypony: when do we start burning the jews?
asciilifeform: fluffypony: when they all take up diddled crypto ?
fluffypony: ok Monday at 3, then
fluffypony: works for me
nubbins`: that's six days from now!
asciilifeform: see, everybody's got these mental patterns, in the ru thinking sphere it is called 'tolerasty'
fluffypony: on on the seventh day we'll rest, nubbins`
asciilifeform: one has to work against one's upbringing, typically, to arrive at the message i was trying to pass here.
nubbins`: ;;ud tolerasty
asciilifeform: that from -tolerasty- comes poettering & crew.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tolerast | Aug 6, 2012 ... tolerast. a mix of `tolerant` and `pederast`, hyper tolerant person, who will sacrifice all of his beliefs just to avoid being thought of as `intollerant`.
nubbins` cackles, claps
asciilifeform: ^ l0l! in englisch at last
nubbins`: example from link: "When a black guy works at Starbucks and one hesitates to ask him for `black coffee"
mats: fun fact: the tor browser bundle uses the Windows heap instead of jemalloc
nubbins`: poor example
asciilifeform: mats: mega-l0l!
asciilifeform: mats: i did not know this.
nubbins`: (calling a black coffee a coffee without anything in it is sacrificing your beliefs?)
mats: it makes heap grooming more reliably supposedly
asciilifeform: aaaaha sure.
mats: but, you know, bugs
nubbins`: under your skin; everywhere
nubbins`: let me find a relevant quote from a recent communique i received
assbot: DONT WORRY MASSIVE EDIT Sat across from a serious man. He’s sunken himself - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPSmvQ )
asciilifeform: mats: let's put another example. if you are found holding a smoking pistol, with $famouspolitican in a bloody heap on the floor where he was not long ago giving a speech - do you suppose the judge would believe that you drew the pistol and pulled the trigger by accident, while reaching for another object in your pocket ?
asciilifeform: if not, why not?
asciilifeform: note the folks routinely shoot themselves and one another in not altogether dissimilar way
asciilifeform: in some situations, 'benefit of doubt' is not - cannot - be given.
mats: there is actual evidence of malfeasance by NSA on other counts, documented and sometimes committed to powerpoint glory
asciilifeform: nubbins`: reads like burroughs
mats: but i don't see that this is the case here.
nubbins`: burroughs no doubt had some similar shit going on upstairs
nubbins`: i have reams of this material
asciilifeform: mats: if you have philosophical objections to 'behave as if X even if possibly ~X is true' then try to come up with some other syllogism. but it -must- end in 'the people who gave us heartbleed and dual_ec DO NOT GET TO MAKE CRYPTO ANY MORE'
mats: show me the motherfucking evidence! you mean to tell me these bureaucrats decided not to commit anything to paper this go-around?
mats: but did, all those other times?
asciilifeform: the bloody corpse is the evidence
asciilifeform: all the necessary evidence.
asciilifeform: if the paperwork is missing - it isn't like we have all the usg archives on display!
asciilifeform: hell, we don't even have 1% of the kgb archive.
asciilifeform: when ever man and woman who ever worked at nsa dies under torture and doesn't say anything about dual_ec - then i might believe 'mistake'
asciilifeform: but not before.
asciilifeform: and then i will question the loyalty and competence of the torturer.
asciilifeform: because how else.
nubbins`: ("he wanted it done quick, not right")
mats: i guess you'll have to torture the interrogator.
asciilifeform: 'headsman, behead youself' aha
assbot: This snake's defense mechanism is to become a treble clef - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPUzYa )
asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, i was not arguing that 'the evidence exists somewhere damnit' (though i belive it)
nubbins`: lelelelel
nubbins`: "dude, just chill out, remember how much you like music?"
asciilifeform: but that 'the evidence cannot be had and we must operate without it'
asciilifeform: best as we can.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00021425 = 5.442 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: and that whatever else we conclude, the fella who wrote hearbleed doesn't get to say 'oops. i promise i won't do it again. now let me write some more critical code'
nubbins`: ^ packaged w/ mycelium entropy thingy
assbot: Anyone else getting tired of this bullshit blatant downward price manipulation? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPVHLD )
nubbins`: "anyone else getting tiredof having no control over our surroundings, or the world at large?"
mike_c: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.02, Best ask: 246.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.18000, Last trade: 246.01, 24 hour volume: 55703.96526026, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 268.99, 24 hour vwap: None
nubbins`: yes, reddit commentor. many others.
mike_c: i blame whaleclub
nubbins`: i blame the guy's teachers and parents
fluffypony: do you speak whaaaaale?
nubbins` burns another 10btc for show
nubbins`: too bad you can't light cigars with these things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9255 @ 0.00021425 = 1.9829 BTC [-]
chetty: <nubbins`> "anyone else getting tiredof having no control over our surroundings, or the world at large?"// no one ever controls the world at large :P get used to it
nubbins`: but we're tiiiiiiiiiired
nubbins`: of our inherent powerlessness
nubbins`: this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university
ben_vulpes: hear hear
nubbins`: block=184374
nubbins`: this'll be what, about a week?
ben_vulpes: 'tis a miserable march.
ben_vulpes: i've lost track of how many times i've done it.
nubbins`: for the good of the republic
ben_vulpes: aws, however, haas not.
ben_vulpes: blocks for the block god
chetty: <nubbins`> this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university// it is what a uni should be
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:29:17; jurov: lol you insist on psychedelic and whatnot. i'm about normal brain function
assbot: Impossible color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ15OM )
jurov: so?
thestringpuller: chetty: what university did you go to?!? lol
Adlai: so nothing, just sharing an effect i wasn't familiar with before
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-03-2015#1067856 << so when do we get op_ed25519verify
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:55:51; fluffypony: DJB believes secp256k1 is broken
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.00020476 = 3.2045 BTC [-]
nubbins`: some of you may find this interesting, i found some pics from when i rebuilt my coffee roaster: http://imgur.com/WrXz3WY,CbtEo0O,uojejnr,A8KKjzG,yTGzvNA,Te8ddW5
fluffypony: lol Adlai
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00019938 = 3.4293 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Impossible color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ3EQY )
asciilifeform: oh and mats, forgot to ask: why have you forgotten about the massive (iirc, 10-20 mil) usg bribe to rsa?
nubbins`: ^ adlai see you next week ;/
asciilifeform: mats: and what do you suppose it was for, if not dual_ec ?
jurov is doing shit with lowlevel dbus interface.. and very first sample caused the introspection to timeout, how else
Adlai: nubbins`: my eyes aren't that far apart
asciilifeform: nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/6OsxazV.jpg << the bozo actually pasted that into #b-a if you recall
nubbins`: gotta cross em duod
nubbins`: in fact, i do not!
asciilifeform: nubbins`: when i told him about sram behaviour below 0c
Adlai: much less stressful to shrink the image and uncross
asciilifeform: !s entropic
assbot: 19 results for 'entropic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=entropic
nubbins`: rassah?
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 20:23:09; Rassah: In our tests, it still had plenty of entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)
asciilifeform: ^ see thread
Adlai: ahah '"Reddish green" redirects here. Reddish Green is also a place in Reddish, Stockport, in Greater Manchester in England.'
nubbins`: dat #b-a fingerprint on device
nubbins`: Reddish Green!
asciilifeform: not that any rng will function especially well in the arctic, but that fella's insistence on baking a known-bad design was memorable.
nubbins`: nevermind the arctic
nubbins`: i'm at the 49th parallel, and i wouldn't be able to use one of these things outdoors in the winter.
mats: RSA upheld their end by backdooring the BSafe product
asciilifeform: i'll emphasize that it isn't a 'won't work in the cold' so much as 'entropy relying on sram effects degrades ungracefully'
asciilifeform: mats: we know this how
mats: that this happened at the same time as the push towards DUAL_EC as default looks incidental, not malicious
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22527 @ 0.00019753 = 4.4498 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: mats: and you concluded this based on what? the perpetrators' word ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14052 @ 0.00019609 = 2.7555 BTC [-]
mats: same premise as before! no proof.
assbot: Fritz Learns to Catch Compilation #1 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ5GAD )
nubbins`: my sides
nubbins`: man, if my goddamn roommate leaves the front door unlatched one more time, he's gonna find his possessions in the street
nubbins`: i've asked him SEVEN FUCKING TIMES
nubbins`: "just check it. it only takes a second."
nubbins`: not sure how else to phrase it
jurov: get your own room?
mats: what i'm saying is that, as the evidence stands, i'm unable to take a firmer position on Dual_EC than the previously accepted consensus that the weakness being a backdoor is quite unlikely, and that Dual_EC should be shunned only because of the abundance of caution with regard to any issues that is endemic to the crypto field
mats: by being excessively paranoid, you deprive yourself of a lot of useful engineering
mats: the claim i'm most concerned about is that the weakness was engineered by NSA, and that, by having approved it, NIST was complicit, thus casting doubt on all other NIST standards
mats: (not necessarily a claim made here -- but nonetheless)
jurov: what's the difference wrt NSA?
nubbins`: jurov i already phrased it that way :D
nubbins`: just running down the clock now
nubbins`: (just so we're clear, roommate in north america = "flatmate" in uk. we do not share rooms)
nubbins`: mats NIST was either complicit or oblivious. both share the same implications.
nubbins`: i.e. that all other NIST standards are cast under shadow
nubbins`: consider that "NIST approved it without knowing that it was backdoored" is probably the least desirable of the two
mats: this kind of innuendo with an utter lack of specifics divides reasonable people into two camps (maximally-paranoid, NIST is evil too, avoid all crypto standards vs. minimally-paranoid, no evidence for anything so we do nothing)
mats: leaving us with no real basis for actually figuring out the situation.
mats: and re: BSafe, i'm not convinced RSA could be sold on destroying their reputation for packing peanuts.
nubbins`: you're implying we can figure out the situation
nubbins`: and i'm saying that whether NIST is complicit or incompetent doesn't matter
mike_c: what? i thought it was common knowledge rsa sold their soul.
ben_vulpes: see malice and incompetence.
mats: well shit. i guess we're all back to handcrafting our own crypto then huh.
thestringpuller: https://slack.com/ << people keep trying to reinvent IRC
assbot: Exclusive: Secret contract tied NSA and security industry pioneer| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8uh3 )
mike_c: "RSA received $10 million in a deal that set the NSA formula as the preferred, or default, method for number generation in the BSafe software"
assbot: Want to drive for Uber ? First, you need to make some mistakes. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8Zrl )
assbot: The meta solution ? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8ZHN )
assbot: Another day, another fissure in the Internet. This time : eBay. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8ZYh )
nubbins`: <+mats> well shit. i guess we're all back to handcrafting our own crypto then huh. <<< no, that's not what we're saying
pete_dushenski: !gettrust mats
assbot: Trust relationship from user pete_dushenski to user mats: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/pete_dushenski/mats | http://w.b-a.link/user/mats
pete_dushenski: mats seems to be pushing his dual_ec point a bit. i'm... skeptical.
pete_dushenski: nubbins`, re: jamaica << there's a spectrum of behaviours within the 'poor service' realm
pete_dushenski: on one end is disinterest, a la paris or w/e, on the other end is entitlement
nubbins`: why only two ends? it's a triangle
pete_dushenski: you could argue that they both grate on different people in different ways, sure, but for me it's the latter that annoys
nubbins`: what you see as entitlement is a desire to not waste time
pete_dushenski: triangle with 'good service' at the third point ?
nubbins`: no, realistic expectations
pete_dushenski: what fucking 'wasted time' could jamaicans possibly have ?
nubbins`: trying to lick your asshole for a buck?
pete_dushenski: so they want to chill at the bar and smoke some weed instead of making a buck ?
nubbins`: when there's 500 other tourists who will just cough one up?
pete_dushenski: maybe they lick my asshole for a 100 though
nubbins`: dude, people the world over want to chill at the bar and smoke some weed instead of making a buck.
pete_dushenski: maybe they put in a bit more effort, because sure, i have standards, and maybe they get rewarded for it
nubbins`: it's a buck.
nubbins`: that's two maybes
nubbins`: how much of your own time do you waste on maybes?
nubbins`: i'd say 5% of the time, or less, "more effort" results in "reward"
nubbins`: so why bother?
pete_dushenski: non-linear payoffs are a thing
pete_dushenski: if 5% chance yields >20x reward then +ev
nubbins`: you're omitting a variable
nubbins`: the extra time required
pete_dushenski: ok, so 40x payoffs are also a thing
nubbins`: ok, so 1% chance.
nubbins`: let's both make up numbers
pete_dushenski: or maybe it's more quality of time, not quantity i'm looking for
nubbins`: maybe.
nubbins`: consider that if your suggested approach worked, people would do it
nubbins`: but they don't
nubbins`: so.............
pete_dushenski: in fact, my experience was that people gave me TOO MUCH time
pete_dushenski: they'd walk up to me and want to show me this and that, start following me wherever i was going, trying to nudge me here and there
pete_dushenski: they seemed to have an abundance of time but little notion of how to use it effectively (at least on me)
thestringpuller: i'm an expert time waster, and wasting time is an art pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: jamaicans should have a museum dedicated to this art, i say.
nubbins`: pete_dushenski minimum wage in jamaica is $1.25/hr.
nubbins`: if they get two dollars pestering you for an hour, they're ahead.
nubbins`: ten bucks is a day's work at an honest job
nubbins`: why does it seem irrational that they'd harass tourists for money?
nubbins`: consider how many of them just fork over the $$ to get rid of the guy
pete_dushenski: ok, so now you're saying that it's worth their time to be of service to me... make up your mind
nubbins`: i'm saying it's worth their time to try to get $$ out of tourists, but it's not worth their time to chase dead ends
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: well it's in art in the sense of the Oracle from the Matrix. Once you realize there is a lot of "waiting" for events to occur, then it's best to spend the meanwhile in enjoyment.
pete_dushenski: i don't see that harassment, jostling, or whatever you want to call it is effective
nubbins`: pete_dushenski it's not effective --against you-- but it's *precisely effective* against the average vacationer.
pete_dushenski: if it were, jamaica wouldn't be worse than marakesh
nubbins`: these guys immediately realize that you're not some sucker who's gonna fork over a tenner
nubbins`: so they leave you alone
pete_dushenski: except they don't!
pete_dushenski: that's the thing!
nubbins`: ever?
pete_dushenski: they waste their time on me.
nubbins`: right.
nubbins`: and they do this because....
nubbins`: ....it sometimes works.
nubbins`: sometimes they harass a guy for an hour and get a payday
pete_dushenski: they all want to talk to the white kid with hair like them. i was the most popular thing on the street
nubbins`: pete_dushenski understand that you're a wallet with an afro when you visit resorts
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: hm. i can see it
nubbins`: all behaviour you observe follows from this
pete_dushenski: what fucking resorts ?
pete_dushenski: these are cities i'm talking about. namely, ocho rios and kingston
pete_dushenski: the point i'm making is that quality is more valuable than quantity
pete_dushenski: (though yes, quantity does have a quality all its own)
pete_dushenski: and i saw a fuckton of quantity and very little, but admittedly non-zero, amounts of quality
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 14:04:46; nubbins`: "sourcing their ingredients from within spitting distance, thus keeping the revenue in the local economy" <<< you mean keeping their /expenditures/ in the local economy. their revenue goes elsewhere, unless they're the ones buying all the dimebags.
nubbins`: anyway tl;dr their approach works well enough for them
nubbins`: if you're gonna upbraid them for not trying hard enough, why leave out the rest of the world?
nubbins`: none of us are trying hard enough
pete_dushenski: well, this'd be mp's recently identified economic meta problem
pete_dushenski: to which i humbly proposed, above, immigration of workerbees.
nubbins`: my recently identified pete's-blog-post-about-jamaica meta problem is that you identify entitlement as a problem but fail to realize that you're acting more entitled than these guys are
pete_dushenski: there are plenty of people on the planet trying to improve their lot in life.
nubbins`: "how dare they not realize i deserve red carpets and back rubs"
nubbins`: "i'm non-black, after all, and i can afford to come here. what more must i do?!"
nubbins`: what more, indeed
pete_dushenski: that alone is a huge difference between me and kid scooping frozen fly guts
pete_dushenski: they're not me and i'm not them, so ya, if we say words that sounds superficially similar, they have different contexts, thus different implications
nubbins`: sure, but doesn't mean automatic handjobs for the guy who doesn't scoop fly guts
pete_dushenski: well that's too bad
pete_dushenski: in that case, why bother doing better than fly guts kid ?
pete_dushenski: if we're all treated the same.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20355 @ 0.00020627 = 4.1986 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: "An Airbus A320 crashed en route to Dusseldorf from Barcelona, likely killing all 150 people on board, in what would be the worst air accident on French soil in three decades. Germanwings Flight 9525 operated by the low-cost subsidiary of Deutsche Lufthansa AG went down in the French Alps following a rapid descent from cruising altitude, France’s civil aviation authority said."
pete_dushenski: i guess cutting costs from air travel has consequences. who knew you can't race to the bottom indefinitely.
pete_dushenski: this is assuming it wasn't hacked, shot down, etc.
nubbins`: <+pete_dushenski> in that case, why bother doing better than fly guts kid ? <<< same reason one might bother to do worse: different tolerance for comforts or lack thereof
nubbins`: low-cost airlines = no fun
nubbins`: dat legroom
pete_dushenski: and the paper thin seat cushions
pete_dushenski: flying oz's jetstar made me appreciate air canada like nothing else
nubbins`: flying air canada made me appreciate westjet like nothing else XD
nubbins`: porter also gets points for free beer
pete_dushenski: haven't flown porter yet.
nubbins`: you ask for a beer and they just give you one, it's great
pete_dushenski: i don't mind westjet, their staff are quite well trained
pete_dushenski: dat customer service ! ;)
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: different tolerance for comforts or lack thereof << i guess jamaicans have a higher tolerance for discomfort than i do
pete_dushenski: perhaps a surprise to no one
nubbins`: almost certainly
pete_dushenski: given the mini-bus trip i took from the north of the island to the south, with 8 rows of people jammed, and i do mean jammed with mothers and children, 5 across
pete_dushenski: with no a/c
nubbins`: part of me feels this speaks to the relative lack of environmental stressors
pete_dushenski: memorable experience. hell, i'd do it again.
nubbins`: i recommend you keep doing it for the forseeable future :D
nubbins`: (but srsly, marrakesh, you would not enjoy)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8345 @ 0.00020248 = 1.6897 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: lol funny you should mention marrakesh, i was actually going to go to morocco instead of jamaica but didn't have the 2-3 weeks needed to make the haul worthwhile
pete_dushenski: mebbe some day
pete_dushenski: i should say, i had the 2-3 weeks, but chose to spread it out over two trips instead of 1
pete_dushenski: next up: home of the chf
pete_dushenski: "One of Britons' favourite places to visit in North Africa has been named the world's top destination by TripAdvisor users. With its desert landscape and bustling souks, Marrakech came out on top in the website's annual Travellers' Choice Awards for the first time."
nubbins`: i went to marrakesh for a week
pete_dushenski: ^the wisdom of the crowds, i guess
nubbins`: turns out, stupid length of trip
pete_dushenski: no fez, no casablanca ?
nubbins`: no time!
pete_dushenski: guess not eh
nubbins`: holed up in a hostel somewhere in the maze of souks for the week
nubbins`: saw the countryside a couple days
nubbins`: actually, touts aside, i'd go again for the food
nubbins`: but straight up, there is a club med about 100 meters from the main square, and you can tell
nubbins`: i'm not sure i'll be able to find a photograph that accurately captures what a bizarre juxtaposition this is, in the meantime
pete_dushenski: heh, well if you do, toss it in here
pete_dushenski: howdy Pierre_Rochard !
pete_dushenski: looks like you're coming just as i'm going..
Pierre_Rochard: howdy pete_dushenski
Pierre_Rochard: well I saw crapple mentioned was coincidentally reading up on their developer chumpatronics: http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple
assbot: Critical Sharks Part IV: Fear of Apple — Eli Schiff ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKTAUp )
Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: ships that pass in the night, gday!
pete_dushenski: ya, it's not a pretty picture over in post-stevelandia
pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard: keep nubbins`occupied while i'm gone, wouldja ?
pete_dushenski: cheers !
nubbins`: you're on the clock
Pierre_Rochard clocks in, sighs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.000213 = 4.2813 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067902 << all coffee is "black" at starbucks; if you want your coffee ruined, you have to do it yourself at the designated coffee ruining station
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:06:52; nubbins`: example from link: "When a black guy works at Starbucks and one hesitates to ask him for `black coffee"
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKUqR6 )
ascii_field: mats: your phrase 'avoid all crypto standards' is very much -not- the inevitable implication of dismissing usg crapolade
ascii_field: -avoid all usg crypto standards- - yes
ascii_field: mats: leaving us with no real basis for actually figuring out the situation. << know perfectly well that we -have- a real basis. any crypto standard promulgated by known malefactors is to be thrown out. and replaced not with iraqi caesar ciphers, no, but with derivation from first principles of perfectly reasonable modern crypto.
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: what, precisely, was it that you wanted from the jamaicans ?
ascii_field: i still don't get it
danielpbarron: i get what he meant
ascii_field: danielpbarron: the vibe i got was 'why won't they lick my boots, whatddayamean it isn't 1890 and i'm not a brit'
ascii_field: but guess what, a modern italian can't go around proclaiming 'civis romanus sum' to any useful result, either
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22284 @ 0.00021568 = 4.8062 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Global Oil Stock Levels in Days of Net Imports - knoema.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKVpkh )
ascii_field: 'Recent revelations show that the situation has gotten so bad that today there are only approximately 3000 apps profitable enough to support a median income of $50k for their developer. It is also important to note that not all apps are built by one developer, many work as a team. So it follows that there are many fewer than 3000 developers sustainably doing independent development.'
ascii_field: ^ tournamentmarket lulz
ascii_field: 'According to reporting, "1.6 percent of developers earn more than the other 98.4 percent combined. And the bottom 47 percent of engineers earn less than $100 per month." Yet somehow, independent app development has often been described as a 'gold rush' despite it being quietly understood by developers, even as early as 2009, that this was hardly the case.' << does this person have any awareness of what the '49 goldrush
ascii_field: is actually remembered for?
ascii_field: or do words have no meaning to him
chetty: ascii_field, most likely no real knowledge of the gold rush
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00021442 = 3.152 BTC [-]
nubbins`: haha
nubbins` wrote two iOS apps, submitted to overlord for review & put up for sale
nubbins`: can verify, not reasonable way of making living
ascii_field wrote one long ago, never published, wouldn't do it again
nubbins`: (anyone with half a brain could probably extrapolate that doing work on speculation, in general, is not a reasonable way of making a living)
nubbins`: fwiw i earned enough money to buy an ipad
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 09:57:56; punkman: "app rating farm" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9EKh_lIEAE1O8u.jpg
nubbins`: so i guess there's that
ascii_field: ^ how the 'making a living with apps' folks do it
nubbins`: that's great
nubbins`: "wait now, all those ipads are viewing the bitcoin forum"
ascii_field: -these- and precisely -these- people will always be the first to swear to you that 'being a star just happens'
nubbins`: ascii_field not unlike bitcoin, early "adopters" of writing ios apps scooped up most of the "free money"
nubbins`: i.e. for about three weeks, way back at the start, writing a "fart app" could reasonably earn you several months' wages
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2014 04:59:28; asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp.
ascii_field: the app 'gold mine' thing is precisely the 'disney entrepreneur farm'
trinque: seems to be precisely the same mechanism
ascii_field: nubbins`: not even speaking of 'early adopters' - but of who it is who owns the 'app' market -today-
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00022052 = 14.5543 BTC [+] {4}
ascii_field: and why.
nubbins`: i do know a guy who earns his living making mobile apps, but he's truly gifted and also concentrates on bespoke apps for product launch displays, interactive booths, etc
trinque: the few low-tier VCs I've talked to werent' the slightest bit interested in the fact that a) we're already profitable and b) had a sane plan to become more so
ascii_field: nubbins`: very different from the populist chumpatron, though
nubbins`: i know of noone else who can support themselves, let alone a family, on iOS
trinque: just "hey how are we going to chase this loyalty/social/... trend"
nubbins`: almost so different as to not warrant mentioning
nubbins`: nobody mentions how "angry birds" devs made, what was it? 52 failures before they hit that one
nubbins`: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: fifty-two apps that had to be written, tested, submitted, accepted, promoted...
nubbins`: anyway, i said it earlier
ascii_field: article mentions gruber. who i recall very distinctly as an especially smarmy 'volunteer' apple propagandizer. he once sent fifty or so thousand morons to my site
nubbins`: doign work on spec is fucking nuts
ascii_field: when i blasphemed against his prophet
funkenstein_: i refuse to admit that any creature would pay for an app
nubbins`: doing work on spec where it has to pass through a single arbiter is /daft/
nubbins`: funkenstein_ i paid eight or so bucks for a GPS app, 10/10 would do again
assbot: All Underhanded Crypto Entries | Underhanded Crypto Contest ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKWkRN )
funkenstein_: one that had already been written?
trinque: I've paid for a few apps, but my phone tends to be a mobile web browser
nubbins`: funkenstein_ try asking a different way?
nubbins`: trinque +1
trinque: were the web not insane, there'd be no 'app stores'
funkenstein_: software that has already been written is free
trinque: funkenstein_: weird way of saying warez? or do you only use open source?
danielpbarron: funkenstein_> i refuse to admit that any creature would pay for an app << I've paid for a few
nubbins`: yeah i'm not sure what
funkenstein_: i ran windows at one point too, not gonna brag about it though
nubbins`: but to answer your impossibly odd question, yes, the GPS app that i purchased had already been written when i purchased it
trinque: I'm not keen on intellectual property, but that's not what I (tell myself I) pay for when I buy software
funkenstein_: i pay folks to write software, not to uh, well whatever it is you paid for
danielpbarron: i paid for an app called "drafts" which had the selling point of being a no-nonsense text input and saving app
nubbins`: funkenstein_ problem is, i can't get much of a GPS app written for $8.
danielpbarron: isn't Waze free?
ascii_field: danielpbarron: this is an ancient plague in the apple world. vendor releases an unusable os, and then various 'entrepreneurs' show up to expensively offer to paper over the turd, and users - oblige
trinque: waze has an upsell iirc
danielpbarron: i'm pretty sure i've never given waze any money
trinque: so when do we fix the internet guys?
trinque: is that next month?
ascii_field: check out the many apps whose functionality sums up to one line of 'sed' on a sane machine
nubbins`: funkenstein_ that said, if you know of a way i can turn my phone into a full-featured GPS unit for eight dollars, feel free to let me know
trinque: need a sandbox which runs lisp code and can do rudimentary socket IO
nubbins`: i'm sure others would be interested as well
funkenstein_: what is a full featured gps unit?
trinque: exchange pub key to get access
funkenstein_: gives you two coordinates of your location?
nubbins`: ah, we're doing pedantics here
danielpbarron: i paid for the up-sells in an app called "unfollow" so that i could keep an exceptions list; had it remove it recently because it became too buggy
nubbins`: no, it lets you create tracks, waypoints, PoIs, displays your avg speed and distance travelled, switch map overlays, blah blah
funkenstein_: you are looking for good map software actually, GIS is what you mean to say
trinque: best thing about gossipd is probably going to be writing software around it
nubbins`: no, i have good map software and good free maps
nubbins`: i'm looking for /bells and whistles/
nubbins`: if all i wanted was a map i'd take a fucking map
assbot: ryancdotorg/undercrypto2014 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKWHf8 )
funkenstein_: i'm sure you can find what you are looking for
nubbins`: i'm sure you're talking out your ass
trinque: ehehehe
funkenstein_: if not let me know i'll get you the apk or whatever for free
ascii_field: mats: yours ?
trinque: called it, warez
danielpbarron: the nicksquatters are mad at eachother!
nubbins`: funkenstein_ are we even speaking the same language here?
trinque: funkenstein_: there's nothing wrong with paying for software
trinque: I would like access to the source but that's a separate issue
ascii_field: not long ago i paid for - air.
funkenstein_: trinque, that depends who you pay and when
ascii_field: for tires.
nubbins`: "i paid eight bucks for a binary with neat features" "yeah? well i pay everyone to write the software i use. or i use free shit. you're a dummy, use free shit!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16086 @ 0.00022577 = 3.6317 BTC [+]
ascii_field: didn't 'feel good' about it though
mats: ascii_field: ha, no. a finalist from this year
funkenstein_: i prefer to pay software developers for software
nubbins`: as if my time is so valueless that i'm willing to give up a couple hours over EIGHT DOLLARS
trinque: nubbins`: he git-tips a penny! good enough for anyone
nubbins`: ....
ascii_field: nubbins`: payware costing money is by far the least significant problem with it, in my experience
trinque: funkenstein_: ascii_field may give you a beating if you claim you have full control over your software stack
ascii_field: and i've used software packages costing six (usd) figures
danielpbarron: yeah i really don't mind paying for nice things, software or otherwise
ascii_field: (as i'm sure many others here have)
danielpbarron: heck i recently paid 120 USD for OpenBSD cd sets
nubbins`: i'm not sure what's so hard to digest here
nubbins`: "why would you purchase a moleskine notebook? just use vi"
funkenstein_: danielpbarron did you send the 120 to an appstore?
trinque: holy fuck
nubbins`: ;;calc 8*.3
gribble: 2.4
trinque: funkenstein_: openbsd doesn't come from an app store
funkenstein_: bingo
danielpbarron: i used a credit card so...
nubbins`: so of my eight bucks, $2.40 went to apple.
funkenstein_: don't let it happen again ok?
nubbins`: is there anyone present who would take on the job of finding me a piece of software compatible with my needs, for $2.40?
funkenstein_: i'm happy to look around for free
nubbins`: your time is your own to waste!
nubbins`: my time has value
danielpbarron: the better argument may be "don't use the kind of device that has an app store" or something
funkenstein_: uh, and here we are
nubbins`: no, you're there and i'm here
danielpbarron: but seeing as how i have this stupid iphone, i really don't mind paying 1 to 10 USD for an app that actually works as described
trinque: soon as there's a fully open and documented phone/computer, I'll buy that too
funkenstein_: even though it has a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem
danielpbarron: i don't care about the principle of the thing -- that a text input without cruft should just come with the thing
nubbins`: ah get out
danielpbarron: on a related note, i'm totally getting a moleskin notebook
nubbins`: me buying a handheld garmin has a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem
trinque: funkenstein_: you can moralize about any step in the supply chain of the thing
nubbins`: you buying a car has the same effect
danielpbarron: in the time it takes to unlock phone and open text app, i could have already written the idea down
trinque: I've got a highly customized gentoo running all OSS.... on a fucking lenovo x1 carbon
nubbins`: trinque lenovo? did it come with windows?
trinque: still not sin-free (TM)
trinque: nubbins`: yeah win 8.1
nubbins`: thanks for having a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem, judas
trinque: saying you can't escape
trinque: nubbins`: :''(
nubbins`: right?
nubbins`: senseless wank-off
trinque: or hell I get an "open computer" whatever that is
ascii_field: there is no sensible 'pNohe', we already knew this
trinque: now I want wireless internet
trinque: fucked.
nubbins`: but at least we have people happy to look around for free
trinque: or the parts are completely open and NSA spent infinite money discovering hardware flaws
trinque: and now I'm part of the NSA botnet
trinque: not sin free
nubbins`: i'll just pop on irc every time i'm tempted to pay two dollars to satisfy an impulse
danielpbarron: the only software ecosystem that matters is right in here and i don't see it getting harmed by us paying for a gps app on our phones
ascii_field: trinque: part of the NSA botnet << most of us will live and die without having the honour of an 0day spent (yes, they're used up when used, think about it) on our sorry hides
nubbins`: danielpbarron "but if the gps app is closed source, it could be sending your location to the NSA" 8)8)8)8)8)
danielpbarron: so then the argument is "don't use iphone at all" which is a much more sensible argument
trinque: ascii_field: hm, I took the hard drive firmware situation to mean malware could hide and resurface without being detectable at the OS level
trinque: I wouldn't know
trinque: that led me to believe that they infect everyone, make almost all dormant
trinque: this led me to thinking about how much of what I've heard through leaks is psyops
danielpbarron: trending in social media == likely psyops
trinque: ascii_field: makes sense though that they would treat these like fire-once weapons
ascii_field: trinque: basic tradecraft - the more shocking the exploit, the louder will be the cry when it is discovered; the more victims - the sooner it ends up on, e.g., my desk, or that of 100,000 other folks who can pry it open
assbot: Project IceStorm ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKXug8 )
ascii_field: mats: neato, there was a similar project for xilinx 'virtex'
ascii_field: mats: actually, at least two
mats: how was their progress?
ascii_field: mats: surprisingly usable
ascii_field: mats: the way the story normally ends is that the reversed fpga becomes quasi-usable nearly the same time it goes out of print and replaced with incompatible version...
ascii_field: ...and...
ascii_field: 'as long as no block memories or hard IP blocks are used' << ahahahahaha.
ascii_field: academic turd.
ascii_field: worthless.
ascii_field: even something as simple as dram is not, in practice, usable without the 'hard' blocks
ascii_field: on any fpga whatsoever
ascii_field: the timing constraints are unforgiving.
ascii_field bashed his head on this for most of a year, at one point
ascii_field: also see old threads
ascii_field: !s xilinx
assbot: 56 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx
mats: i didn't know that
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.0002305 = 2.4664 BTC [+]
jurov: http://animalous.com/ in the bottom, 33 reasons for lulz
assbot: Animalous ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKY7q7 )
jurov: and the motivation, too
ascii_field: 'The library implements the AES block cipher in CTR mode and for the most part behaves as it is described in almost all circumstances it would normally be used in. Notably it passes all the FIPS and RFC test vectors for AES encoding and can interoperate with openssl. The library can be used in most any application where AES is needed and will behave appropriately. The library becomes exploitable specifically when it gets
ascii_field: used as part of an implementation of IPSec over IPv6 in a resource constrained IP stack. In such a case, under normal operation the library will perform properly, interoperating with other IPSec aes-ctr hosts. But when it is triggered by a forged ICMPv6 packet it will lead to a full plaintext reveal. Another forged ICMP packet will restore the conforming behavior so that normal packet retries will mask the improper
ascii_field: behavior.'
ascii_field: ^ winner of ucc
ascii_field: from a runner-up:
ascii_field: 'Provides a working implementation of a backdoor embedded into the RSA modulus of a Certification Authority public-key certificate and the code for a minimalistic client and server communicating over a TLS channel:'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6305 @ 0.0002305 = 1.4533 BTC [+]
ascii_field: 'Shows how this backdoor can completely pervert the security guarantees provided by the TLS protocol... even the presence of a single CA certificate with a secretly embedded backdoor in the certificate store would render the entire TLS security fictional...'
ascii_field: (Alfonso De Gregorio)
jurov: there's also ECDSA goodie "I have extended this attack to work in cases where there is a
jurov: known difference between the key values used in two signatures"
ascii_field: jurov: sop
ascii_field: this was, iirc, actually fired in anger and coin was recovered
ascii_field: incidentally, one of the entries is a diddled ecc curve
ascii_field: 'It is my aim to set a new high-water mark for transparency in parameter generation. To that end, all of these values are nothing-up-my-sleeve numbers which I generated by singing the Bohemian Rhapsody backward with my dog barking in the background, digitizing the audio as an MP3 at a bitrate of 192kbit/s, and taking every 17th byte of the result. Their integrity can easily be verified by repeating this procedure.'
ascii_field: ^ i won't spoil the riddle here
jurov: can i borrow the dog?
jurov: :D
ascii_field: ... and one of the submissions is a pwning of actual wild openssl when an idiot uses dsa.
ascii_field: jurov: the rpm signature entry isn't yours by any chance ?
ascii_field: i could've sworn you discovered this very item in the actual wild
jurov: no, i have no entry
jurov: which one?
ascii_field: it's the one by S. Nicolussi
jurov: ths is something different
ascii_field: i highly recommend reading the ucc winners
ascii_field: to all of the people here.
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu es.qntra sounds cool Seperate wordpress install for it does seem necessary
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell cazalla es.qntra sounds cool Seperate wordpress install for it does seem necessary
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: i was thinking at first "how is he patching yum or what?" but it's about principle
jurov: that it is checking for error messages, not "GOOD signature" string
assbot: Bitseed Personal Server - Bitcoin Node Edition - Bitseed ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOuxoj )
mats: all the moar reason to sell pogos imo
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 'OS is Ubuntu 14 with optional GUI desktop. It can support to a mouse, keyboard and HDMI monitor if desired' << l0l!!
jurov: omfg... checked /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/rpmUtils/miscutils.py
mats: http://i.imgur.com/09FTJTl.jpg pictured: one partially disassembled hellfire missile
jurov: and it *really* does say:
ascii_field: mats: yours ?
jurov: if str(e) == "public key not availaiable":
mats: (training round as indicated by green tip)
jurov: on live cnetos installation
mats: ascii_field: nah. acquaintance's.
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067407 <<< i can figure it out, alternatively, another idea would be to just make another wordpress install in qntra.net/es/
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 09:25:50; mircea_popescu: cazalla you know how to set that shit up tho ?
ascii_field: mats: what do these cost (assuming this was surplus ?)
cazalla: BingoBoingo, there's also wordpress multisite, but i have never used it
ascii_field: mats: and is that a flir camera head in the left hand side? another golden toilet
mats: ascii_field: iirc bezzle rate for live rounds are 70k+
Adlai would call this a partly disassembled enclosure, the missile has its own insides too
BingoBoingo: cazalla: They moved most of that functionality into wordpress, better to separate the things at a moving parts level anyways
mats: ascii_field: i think so. i believe the tip is transparent like the 'Sidewinder'
cazalla: the only downside to es.qntra.net would be that it won't benefit from the mother, a subdomain is essentially a brand new site (in the eyes of google)
ascii_field: mats: tip is normally transparent in heat-seekers
ascii_field: mats: what precisely is the point of a training round rocket ?
ascii_field: size-and-mass model ?
mats: i can't explain it.
Adlai: some training ordnances let you toggle in simulated errors
Adlai doesn't know about this specific one
ascii_field: judging only by the photo, the electronic components are in
ascii_field: and one can presumably speak to them
ascii_field: at any rate, such rockets have not really changed since the '70s
ascii_field: there is nothing 'magic' in them.
Adlai: iirc some training ordnance also simulates in-flight behavior of the real thing
BingoBoingo: My guess is it is either for training pilots under load or training maintenance techs without a sapper's margin of error
Adlai: ... actually, there's a lot of new magic?
Adlai is more familiar with anti-tank than anti-air though
assbot: Spike (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HABooQ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00023303 = 1.6196 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: if it is anything like the training version of 'strela' (man-portable surface to air rocket from ru, whose manual was discussed in here a few wks ago) the training variant lets you lock onto and track a target, but doesn't fly or explode.
ascii_field: (or did we do 'igla' ? i forget)
assbot: What happened, and what’s going on « AllCrypt Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1HAE3yJ )
BingoBoingo: I think we did discuss igla
BingoBoingo: !s igla
assbot: 4 results for 'igla' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=igla
BingoBoingo: It's there
nubbins`: ben_vulpes mod6 mircea_popescu and other interested parties: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=uJQDaKcz
nubbins`: ^ Compiling bitcoin-v0.5.3.1 on OSX
BingoBoingo: !Up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: nubbins`: any changes -not- in common with openbsd << For versions earlier than 5.7 and -current some wallet.cpp code needs changed to use better random
mod6: great work nubbins`!
mod6: thanks for posting.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: axe time has begun
ascii_field: thestringpuller: hm ?
thestringpuller: you see the bitnode news?
ascii_field: snore.
ascii_field: doesn't cost any less than a normal computer
ascii_field: (say, from 'pcengines')
nubbins`: mod6 i should stress that *none* of the hardening options are included in that makefile, and it really should not be used for anything other than reference
mircea_popescu: lol cazalla i just got it.
nubbins`: mod6 but FWIW this process should generally be able to be applied to future releases as well
ascii_field: thestringpuller: if they were passing these out for tenbux each, then.
ascii_field: but otherwise snore
nubbins`: i.e. 0.5.3.2 should patch just the same
thestringpuller: ascii_field: snore for now, but if they start selling, they lower barrier to fork.
thestringpuller: selling in volume*
ascii_field: the photo suggests something like a 'raspberry'
thestringpuller: just bad feeling seeing summer 2015 as their schedule and this aligns with gavin wanting to have enough dick's sucked to push his shit into github around then as well
nubbins`: ascii_field i thought it was a raspi between two sheets of acrylic at first
nubbins`: looks like similar class of hw
nubbins`: commodity sbc
nubbins`: .foundation 0.5.3.1 running on pogoplug w/ SD card is a stopgap here
ascii_field: i think i've identified the board
ascii_field: it is a 'banana pi.'
ascii_field: not revealed in the phoundation site, of course
ascii_field: but can be inferred from the port layout and the chipset in the spec sheet.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field lol.
mircea_popescu: the blessing of suck these people have srsly...
mod6: # Modified March 22 2015 by Satoshi Nakamoto for La Serenissima << :]
nubbins`: dat paying for a needless gpu, hdmi, etc
ascii_field: nubbins`: them's chumps paying
nubbins`: i wonder how much $$ pogo boards could be had for in quantity
nubbins`: (if at all)
ascii_field: nubbins`: probably ~19 usd forever until they run out
ascii_field: upon which $maxint.
mircea_popescu: hemeans just the boards.
nubbins`: lel. i know, i mean actually having just the boards produced
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the plastic casing is at least as valuable as the boards.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu +1
nubbins`: it comes with a fucking 3-foot cat5!
nubbins`: and a power supply too!
ascii_field: and dc brick
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21678 @ 0.00023498 = 5.0939 BTC [+]
ascii_field: and don't forget the steel heat sink in there
nubbins`: and so on!
nubbins`: so what i'm wondering is what you're looking at for, say, 10k units without all that fluff
ascii_field: i'll add that the case is not merely decorative
ascii_field: it holds the heatsink in place, and cradles the hdd
mircea_popescu: nubbins` 10k is not in quantity noob.
nubbins`: lel you're right hey
mircea_popescu: 10mn, you can prolly have for ~7-8 or so
ascii_field: rupees.
nubbins`: i obv have no idea as to scale here
ascii_field: 10 mn, i'd stuff it all on one die.
ascii_field: and a socket on the side for another identical unit, for when the flash fills.
ascii_field: ad infinitum.
ascii_field: (ethernet socket on other hand side, naturally)
ascii_field: like 'lego blocks'
nubbins` shrugs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8147 @ 0.00023239 = 1.8933 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: pogo is what, marvell kirkwood?
ascii_field: nubbins`: aha
thestringpuller: ^- posted by same dude on reddit
ascii_field: !s marvell
assbot: 13 results for 'marvell' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=marvell
nubbins`: might be worth contacting /them/
nubbins`: if anyone'd have a handle on someone down-chain who has however many k units..
ascii_field: nubbins`: for what ?
mircea_popescu: Storage4 GB NAND Flash
mircea_popescu: 160 GB HDD
mircea_popescu: ahaha this is exactly a pogo
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it's a 'banana pi'
ascii_field: retails for around $60.
mircea_popescu: i mean performance wise.
ascii_field: sand disk, brick, case
ascii_field: slightly faster than pogo, iirc
ascii_field: pogo has 128m flash also
nubbins`: wait, 4gb nand!
ascii_field: nubbins`: for what do you need a 4g nand ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field but the 4gb is only because they run crud.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu has it
mircea_popescu: in no way better than 128mb with deturdified os
ascii_field: but iirc that board comes with it on
nubbins`: ascii_field that's what i'm wondering :0
ascii_field: you can't get it without the extra bells & whistles
mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of this, what was the status of teh pogo project ? we ready to bake ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you ask me, releasing the memleak version is lunacy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00022994 = 6.4843 BTC [-]
ascii_field: regardless of what else works
mircea_popescu: you can't postpone everything until everything else just like you can't have everything louder than everything else.
ascii_field: i specifically mean that a node running bitcoincrashcrashcrash is dangerous to itself and others.
ascii_field: nondeterministic behaviour
mircea_popescu: all bitcoin nodes run that o.O
ascii_field: if i could quantify it, it wouldn't be nondeterministic, would it
ascii_field: i meant that it trashes state unpredictably
ascii_field: upon death
assbot: Stealing Data From Computers Using Heat | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL7dTB )
mircea_popescu: inb4 ascii_field snore.
danielpbarron: nubbins`> it comes with a bobbaing 3-foot cat5! << most do; not all -- the power supply also varies in shape
ascii_field: chetty: ancient tech
nubbins`: danielpbarron uh
mircea_popescu: he'd know.
ascii_field: chetty: a certain semiconductor vendor had a heat-based tattletale mechanism for detecting clones
ascii_field: transmitted a few bytes with small variations in surface temp
nubbins`: dat impure word replacement
chetty: yeah old tech, but showing up in more mainstream sorts of pubs is interesting
ascii_field: the receiver here is the built-in thermistor found in most servers
ascii_field: which is mildly clever
ascii_field: 'The two systems would then engage in a handshake, involving a sequence of “thermal pings” of +1C degrees each, to establish a connection. ' << stopped reading here
ascii_field: noise sensitivity makes it hopeless in the wild
ascii_field: (a passing draft will drop your channel capacity to nothing ?)
nubbins`: a passing draft will drop your outdoor coffee roaster by 20C
nubbins`: wait, that conversation was from somewhere else
danielpbarron: how hard would it be to get OpenBSD on a pogo? I've been idling in their channel but I'm not sure how productive it would be to just go "hey someone should start supporting this architecture for my pet project!"
ascii_field: danielpbarron: same problem as netbsd
ascii_field: (no support for the nand; bizarre bugs in other drivers)
danielpbarron: i don't mind paying someone to do it, but i probably can't afford whatever that kind of work is worth
ascii_field: i would do it pro bono but haven't the time
ascii_field: (i know exactly how)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00023035 = 1.9695 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: i got your netbsd kernel to boot on the pogo; this is possible with openbsd as well?
ascii_field: haven't tried personally
ascii_field: but iirc the device support of openbsd is a subset of netbsd's
nubbins`: was bsd chosen because of smallest footprint or other?
assbot: OpenBSD/armish ... ( http://bit.ly/1HARjU5 )
nubbins`: i recall you saying a bare bones install could be impossibly tiny
BingoBoingo: <nubbins`> was bsd chosen because of smallest footprint or other? << small footprint no crud
danielpbarron: i wouldn't mind gentoo
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> (a passing draft will drop your channel capacity to nothing ?) << BUT DRM IN AUDIO WORKS!!!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes mod6 what do you two figure is a realistic timeline for "bitcoind version that doesn't allocate memory without checks and so doesn't crash in THAT particular way" ?
mircea_popescu: apparently ascii_field wants a provably-correct stack of five layers of software before we ship out ten dollar items.
ascii_field: neh just something that isn't guaranteed to kark its breeks after 40min
mircea_popescu: 40 mins is the new 2 weeks
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what was the current block count on those things ?
ascii_field: anyone who wants an illustration of roughly what has to be done, is invited to read my skull&crossbones patch
danielpbarron: height=295831 vs height=216046
mod6: For me, and I might be wrong here, but fixing that is a huge chunk of work. I'd have to break it down to give a decent estimate. But I'd guess 6 months or more, easy.
mircea_popescu: remind me, what are the configs on them ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 i am of the same persuasion.
mircea_popescu: if we live to see it we've lived a long life.
mod6: srsly.
ascii_field: wai wat
ascii_field: fixing leak ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you familiar with how long current foundation patch took ?
mircea_popescu: or anything else for that matter, deedbot, cardano, eulora, name it.
mircea_popescu: i'm just about to release v5 eulora here AFTER A YEAR
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one of these things is not like the other, i think
mircea_popescu: and that was a year of fucking work.
ascii_field: phoundation has no day job
ascii_field: they ought to have gone 100x faster.
mircea_popescu: o it doesn't ? why not ?
chetty: fisrt version of eulora was fast :)
mircea_popescu: o look at those kulaks over there... THEY have to do things right.
mircea_popescu: julia. not us.
ascii_field: gavin or whoever - isn't he a full-time dev for turdation ?
mircea_popescu: yes and he's doing his job to the best of his abilities.
mod6: Our goal is to get this resolved, but I think it seriously is going to take some effort. Part of going forward from this release is going to be breaking down goals and getting them lined up. I have high hopes to discuss much of this at the Cnof.
mircea_popescu: except he's currently rated F for failure.
mod6: *Conf
mircea_popescu: mod6 speaking of which, you never answered email.
mod6: Sorry! I'll get you something tonight :)
assbot: Thermal Sidechannel Carries 8 Bits Per Hour in Proof of Concept | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL8t9o )
mircea_popescu: just making sure you got it.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: we just did that one
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: I'd already started on it
mircea_popescu: he writes for qntra!
mod6: Yes, Sir. Should have responded lastnight, just got distracted hacking together my obsd lappy.
ascii_field: mod6, mircea_popescu: depending on what it means to fix the leak (total replacement for block sync mechanism and a mathematical proof for it? or something more like my patch ?) it could take anywhere from a weekend to maxint days
mod6: yeah, im talking about an all encompassing approach .. many small steps, the former.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron i meant, how are they different.
mod6: Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.
danielpbarron: refresh, i just added the other
danielpbarron: oh you mean parts?
danielpbarron: different hard drives
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the way system engineering is done, is either do not fix a problem, or else fix the problem. adding a problem++ to the list at the cost of a weekend is not on this list.
danielpbarron: one is solid state; other is 5400 rpm
mircea_popescu: that it ?
mircea_popescu: aha cool.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: adding a problem++ to the list at the cost of a weekend is not on this list << astute observation, which is why my patch was specifically labeled as a proof to nail down the locus of the problem, and not an item to be used on the battlefield.
mircea_popescu: cool. so then, these things are pretty much ready to launch are they ?
danielpbarron: i also had one going that was using a USB3 stick -- stopped it after a week or so when it was clearly way too slow
danielpbarron: they are not up to the defined spec
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron link me to your last version of "how to" again plox ?
assbot: Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL8MRu )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what's the shortcoming again ?
danielpbarron: this howto is more for developers
nubbins`: i have pogo x2 on the way, i'm gonna dig into this
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron hoply shit, this thing... dude...
mircea_popescu: what do you work irl ?
mircea_popescu: i haven't seen asciiart technical drawings in documents since the 90s.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: the shortcoming is it's using ArchLinux, doesn't boot from eeprom, requires a great deal of user setup to get working
trinque: all danielpbarron's docs rule
mircea_popescu: cool beans nubbins`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9311 @ 0.00022906 = 2.1328 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: would have to be shipped with SD card already configured if the end user is to just plug in a hard drive and forget about it
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what's your job offline ?
danielpbarron: it's a seasonal warehouse thing
mircea_popescu: shut up.
mircea_popescu: you're a tchnical / manual writer.
mircea_popescu: stop wasting your time with whatever. you have any idea what shortage is for these ?
mircea_popescu: or, for that matter, what it pays ?
nubbins`: ^ truth sauce, almost took this up as a career
mircea_popescu: no but this nut's fucking talented, look at this thing.
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> would have to be shipped with SD card already configured if the end user is to just plug in a hard drive and forget about it <<< that is actually preferable for almost everyone who would buy this
danielpbarron: it's not complete btw
mircea_popescu: you have any idea how fucking ~rare~ an actual talent for technical writing is ?
nubbins`: very
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron srsly. look into it.
danielpbarron: well i'm also really good at LTL, heh
nubbins` did well enough at this in uni to get pulled into strange prof's office for praise once
danielpbarron: "logistics" or w/e they call it
nubbins`: and i wouldn't call myself, y'know, outstanding
danielpbarron: i move millions of dollars worth of stuff over the course of a month or two
mircea_popescu: is ltl where you load trucks all day ?
danielpbarron: ya, and schedule them
danielpbarron: and get the orders ready for them
mircea_popescu: aha. well... your lyf, your calls.
mircea_popescu: i wish upon my enemies to be here with me
mircea_popescu: and enjoy the fucking TONEDEAF PARADE
mircea_popescu: thousands of people!
danielpbarron: good to know there are other options; i woudln't mind supplementing my income
danielpbarron: especially with food costing what it does these days
danielpbarron: i'm getting slaughtered at the supermarket
mircea_popescu: "dude, get into this thing you're great for it pays excellent" "oh, i do ok... and i know what food costs." "listen to me... you're not supposed to know what food costs."
nubbins`: if you did, you'd not eat it
mircea_popescu: anyway. so archlinux ? what happened to netbsd or w/e ?!
mircea_popescu: shit im behind.
BingoBoingo: There's concurrent pogo threads
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo im gonna unwind this thing cause i think it ran into a problem.
mircea_popescu: soo where them threads lead.
nubbins`: if we're talking about a "pogo node" as a kit that one can purchase, i think, it's fine to start with w/e distro, booting from SD, skull-and-crossbones patches, w/e
BingoBoingo: Well, the pogo hardware was never marketed with multithreading
nubbins`: all else aside, owning one of these pogos is an opportunity
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so what exactly is it, how did it end up on arch ?
nubbins`: if it's got a real version of bitcoind that works enough to use, all the better
nubbins`: nobody who can't follow some simple instructions to flash nand down the road and reclaim their SD card is gonna buy one anyway
nubbins`: find any forum thread anywhere about pogoplugs being sold at these prices, most of the responses are "!!!!!!!!!"
danielpbarron: there was already a guide written for getting it to work on arch
danielpbarron: and then later i found a guide for debian, but the bitcoind was still dynamic and wouldn't work on it
mircea_popescu: ah so because easier ?
mircea_popescu: is the current arch thing static ?
danielpbarron: it's from ascii's portatronic instructions
danielpbarron: easier yes, in that i don't know any alternatives that work yet
danielpbarron: i think another unsolved problem is that we don't know how to compile a linux kernel that works
danielpbarron: or else maybe gentoo would work on it
mircea_popescu: so basically, you put archlinux according to ascii_field's brew on the pogo, and then compiled a static foundation bitcoind and loaded that up, and that's what we have now ?
trinque: danielpbarron: you can use localmodconfig for that
trinque: make localmodconfig
danielpbarron: no, i compiled the dynamic foundation bitcoind
trinque: build it on a working linux, and you'll get a kernel config
trinque: with all current mods
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron because static didn't work because ?
danielpbarron: it didn't exist at the time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.00022806 = 6.2032 BTC [-] {3}
thestringpuller: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 7D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00024954 / 0.000301 (46659 shares, 11.64 BTC)
mircea_popescu: mod6 do we have it yet ?
danielpbarron: yeah the current release is static
nubbins`: bbl supper but quite interested in getting this sorted
thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00019609 / 0.00022358 / 0.00025613 (1502516 shares, 335.94 BTC), 7D: 0.00019609 / 0.00028609 / 0.00033536 (17959206 shares, 5,138.11 BTC), 30D: 0.00019609 / 0.00034985 / 0.0004493 (81624050 shares, 28,556.94 BTC)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron can you try it ? on a like... 3rd pogo ?
mircea_popescu: so then the master here becomes, arch as per ascii, static as per current foundation release.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7869 @ 0.00022558 = 1.7751 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: any questions ? any laments ?
danielpbarron: i tried to build it for my gentoo laptop and it errored out
danielpbarron: it's for 64 bit systems atm
danielpbarron: and mine is 32
danielpbarron: idk if this also means it won't work on pogo or what
mircea_popescu: wait, gentoo stopped supporting 32 bit ?
danielpbarron: no, 0.5.3.1 did
mircea_popescu: oh right.
mircea_popescu: shit. don't tell me the pogos are 32bit ?!
trinque: it would appear to be 32bit arm
mircea_popescu: o fucking hell check out the gross mismanagement i managed to bless the world with.
thestringpuller: !up assbot
thestringpuller: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: mod6 so the emerging problem here is that while i said "ok" to 64 bit only foundation bitcoind, it turns out when need 32 bit support for our own fucking projects, which notably is the pogo.
mircea_popescu: now, can we has static etc 32 bit ?
thestringpuller: is netbsd still going to be the pogo "base"?
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, no way!
danielpbarron: is it being 32 bit a problem beyond getting bitcoind working?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron which bitcoind ?
danielpbarron: our version
mircea_popescu: seems that's 64 bit only now o.O
danielpbarron: i was lead to believe that getting it to work on 32 bit wasn't that big of a deal, just low priority
danielpbarron: i mean, is the pogo being 32 bit a bigger problem? like is 32 bit becoming obsolete or something?
danielpbarron: http://www.openbsd.org/images/poster31.jpg << theme for 5.5 was "back to the future" -- something about how 32 bit is a problem for unix time
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron everything's becoming obsolete eventually. but no, this isn't that.
assbot: Logged on 17-03-2015 15:07:01; mod6: anyway, it certainly is a goal to support x32. it'll just be in the next release. this has been dragging out too long.
assbot: Bitcoin is running 32 bit systems out of virtual memory · Issue #3324 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FTPPSZ )
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> i also had one going that was using a USB3 stick -- stopped it after a week or so when it was clearly way too slow <<< how far'd you get?
danielpbarron: well i didn't start it from scratch; I copied .bitcoin from the sata one
assbot: 40 results for 'from:danielpbarron vs' - #bitcoin-assets search
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that doesn;t apply : this is pre leveldb
nubbins`: ah look at that
mircea_popescu: they think "it may be fixed" because "anectodally" it doesn't seem to have displayed the behaviour.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00022541 = 7.123 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: basically, this would be prima facie evidence that the code the power rangers sign has very little to do with them.
mircea_popescu: they get it from a dead drop or something, and well, whatever. go to conferences.
nubbins`: the avionics systems haven't failed since last time, so we're pretty sure it may be fixed
nubbins`: seeya in the sky
mircea_popescu: "on this one plane i tried"
mircea_popescu: "which happened to run on a magically garbage collected computor that doens't exist anymore"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 306 @ 0.0034 = 1.0404 BTC [-]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> now, can we has static etc 32 bit ? << yeah. we'll put that at the top of the list.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.0002288 = 3.6379 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mod6 danke.
mircea_popescu: ok, so : pogo = arch as per ascii, static new bitcoind 32 bit as soon as foundation can bang it out.
mircea_popescu: moar comments ?
danielpbarron: it could be debian
danielpbarron: debian works well on pogo, i'm ircing from it right now
danielpbarron: the static bitcoind might work on that
mircea_popescu: it can't, it has no 32 bit support.
mircea_popescu: but iirc, a lot of valuable effort went into selecting and pepraring the os. what do you mean "it could be debian" ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25167 @ 0.0002288 = 5.7582 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: so far i've gotton both debian and archlinux to work on a pogo
danielpbarron: gotten* / and debian is preferable because no systemd
danielpbarron: but the dynamic bitcoind wouldn't work on it; this may be resolved with the "new bitcoind 32 bit"
mircea_popescu: dude this "let's try pluging things see what happens" approach only works if you actually test, and you're not tooled for the mindboggling thing this testing would be.
mircea_popescu: gotta go with an os brewed by someone with some experience so as to have at least a fighting chance the whole thing works.
danielpbarron: ascii did not brew the OS i'm using
mircea_popescu: what happened there ?
danielpbarron: his instructions were strictly for building bitcoind for pogo
mircea_popescu: wasn't the bulk of that "how to load the os on it" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you there ?
danielpbarron: i was holding out for the thing that gets installed in the eeprom
mircea_popescu: ie, the os ?
mircea_popescu: so what happened ?
danielpbarron: ascii was looking at netbsd for a time; there was some bug where it couldn't see the nand, plus we discovered nasty things about netbsd in general
mircea_popescu: so basically, i surmise, we'd have liked a clean "os in eeprom, data on disk" arrangement, but it seems we're not actually capable to do this, and so as a backstop you tried a few oses to go on disk
mircea_popescu: that basically it ?
danielpbarron: ascii is probably capable, but he's also very busy
danielpbarron: i'm not so busy, but not so capable
nubbins`: arch, fwiw, has the most available documentation re: installing on pogoplug
nubbins`: but afaik there's no reason, say, gentoo wouldn't fly
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the 128mb is the reason none of this flies. they all crawl so far.
nubbins`: consider the statement suitably modified
mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone listening would like to try his hand at "make your fave os 128mb in eeprom"...
jurov: i can do C/system programming fine but gotta pay bills... stepped aside from this for now
mircea_popescu: there is that.
danielpbarron: oh, i guess the reason no gentoo was the kernel and userland are bigger; but if it's not going into the eeprom gentoo should work
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00023581 = 1.9572 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 23:14:45; danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what about gentoo on the pogo?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron we want os on the disk like we want wallets on windows.
mircea_popescu: it's a horribru solution.
danielpbarron: right, but i'm just offering alternatives to ArchLinux (which is also on disk)
trinque: danielpbarron: busybox is made for tight spaces
trinque: gentoo can do that
nubbins`: potential for wasted effort if the chosen os won't fit into eeprom down the road
trinque: I'm going to just buy one of these fuckers and pitch in
trinque: as if I don't have enough going on :p
nubbins`: trinque they're a treat
mircea_popescu: nubbins` all effort in linux' is wasted effort!
trinque: pogo 4?
nubbins`: you should get a few
mircea_popescu: because the community is assholes etc.
nubbins`: we're assholes, yet here we are trying
mircea_popescu: trinque you seriously should buy a box.
danielpbarron: trinque, yeah "Pogoplug Series 4" the one with purple logo
trinque: alright
mircea_popescu: i bought hundreds.
nubbins`: blue logo if you want to store blockchain on usb stick ;p
nubbins`: i'm prob'ly gonna grab 50 or so once i'm satisfied i can make it work
assbot: Amazon.com : Pogoplug Series 4 Backup Device : Networked Attached Storage : Camera & Photo ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBgiGQ )
trinque: nubbins`: eh? what's the difference in logo color?
nubbins`: blue logo has no USB3 or SATA
nubbins`: just USB2 and SD
assbot: POGOPLUG MOBILE CLOUD DEVICE POGO-V4-A1-01 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBgshv )
trinque: so I want red/pink/whatever
danielpbarron: also, the blue one cannot boot from usb
nubbins`: boots from SD tho!
danielpbarron: the purple has a usb2 port on the top next to sata port
mircea_popescu: <trinque> as if I don't have enough going on :p << hey, in my spare time i'm designing a fucking game. up to my neck in, of all things, mysql!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5533 @ 0.000232 = 1.2837 BTC [-]
trinque: mircea_popescu: heh I don't mind; am merely setting expectations
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: nm, that's not a flute << bwahaha
mircea_popescu: and the woman's butt has been spanked.
mircea_popescu: "Japanese society can be notoriously conservative when it comes to gender roles. While there is a lot of talk about the negative effects of imposing traditional roles on women, their restrictiveness and destructiveness for well-being are rarely mentioned in regard to men."
mircea_popescu: prime fucking nonsense.
mircea_popescu: "traditional" gender roles not only happen to be correct, but the costs of getting rid of them are, simply put, societal collapse.
mircea_popescu: the notion taht they are "destructive" for either men or women is so idiotic as to wrap over the ridiculous threshold multiple times.
mircea_popescu: pro tip : not everything that's inconvenient is bad. on the fucking contrary.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: was in a meeting, l0l
mircea_popescu: ok, so tell me about osen.
ascii_field: ok 30sec version
assbot: Buildroot: making embedded Linux easy ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBisX8 )
jurov: i guess these roles were fit for manually working males, "inconvenient" for office rats
mircea_popescu: jurov i dun see there's a difference.
ascii_field: but kernel dies during boot and have not so far had the time to determine why
ascii_field: since everyone seems to be 'axe time sword time coooming clooser' i guess it's time for me to actually fix it
mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, i can see a 32 brew of bitcoind coming soonish, is this tacklable to go with it ?
ascii_field: i built for 32!
ascii_field: no one remembers? posted bins too
ascii_field: for armv5 (pogo)
ascii_field: on listserv
mircea_popescu: unrelated. foundation release.
mircea_popescu: i guess that'll be useful for mod6 as a reminder, tho i think he knows.
ascii_field: no reason why the latest recipe can't build on my cross-chain
ascii_field: for armv5
mircea_popescu: "PLEASE REMEMBER - these are for research use only.
mircea_popescu: DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT firing these in anger. You may lose limbs." << recall that ?
mircea_popescu: it'll have to come off.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not directly related
ascii_field: though it was used in the bin
mircea_popescu: anyway, wouldja focus here ?
ascii_field: the build recipe for the cross to armv5 was called 'portatronic'
ascii_field: yes, trying to describe from beginning
mircea_popescu: forget the 32 bit issue, mod6 is working on that.
ascii_field: unless some bug was -introduced- since i last played with bitcoind, it should work ok on 32
mircea_popescu: ascii_field so back to os topic.
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> no one remembers? posted bins too <<< i remember!
mircea_popescu: well, how soon can we have it ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: basic idea is that we mustn't ship with a kernel built by some random bozo
ascii_field: (but by known bozo!)
nubbins`: oh fuck, why don't i read
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you get all excited :D
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i said that above eh.
trinque: any reason not to use pogo with an sd card for the blockchain?
trinque: or should I get this usm thing
nubbins`: much of today will be useful in the future, i'm putting a pin in it
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: how soon can we have it << i personally will dust it off tonight and say where it's at before i turn in for the night
mircea_popescu: trinque you should try the sd if you're doing research.
mircea_popescu: we've not tried it much.
danielpbarron: store blockchain on SD card? that will take forever to sync
ascii_field: i tried this
ascii_field: not so hot.
mircea_popescu: maybe he has good sd cards.
ascii_field: sd is a few 100 kB/sec in practice
danielpbarron: the 5400 rpm sata drive takes long enough
ascii_field: serial protocol, ~33MHz iirc
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you gotta appreciate the following point : people have diff items hanging around ther house
mircea_popescu: and time is not much of a constraint here.
ascii_field: sd card isn't typically built for 100% duty cycle either
mircea_popescu: so it takes 6 months to sync instead of 4. oookay ?
ascii_field: (normal application is more something liek a camera)
mircea_popescu: if it runs for55 years ?
danielpbarron: might be interesting to see if an already synced .bitcoin directory is copied over to SD card and see if it can simply keep up
trinque: I am fine with doing the tortoise test
ascii_field: neh more like 2yrs vs 6mo
ascii_field: but -no one- must take my word for it
ascii_field: always - measure.
trinque: mostly interested in helping with the OS
nubbins`: cough
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you on the other hand have to appreciate the ricochet benefit.
mircea_popescu: let the man fucking play with things already
nubbins`: danielpbarron i'm wondering same but re: usb thumb
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's tested and sucks.
nubbins`: ok but what's sucks
assbot: Amazon.com: PNY Elite Performance 64GB High Speed SDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Up to 90MB/sec Flash Card - P-SDX64U1H-GE: Computers & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBkgiU )
mircea_popescu: very low speed
trinque: claims 10mb/sec
trinque: write
nubbins`: like 11 minutes to digest each new block sort of low speed?
mircea_popescu: more like 20
nubbins`: f off, srs?
mircea_popescu: it was atrocious.
danielpbarron: maybe i did it wrong or something; USB3 theoretically should be very fast
mircea_popescu: usbs have never been seriously optimised for FILMING TO THEM
mircea_popescu: some sds were.
nubbins`: hahah
ascii_field: i got pretty good results with usb3
nubbins`: yeah, fine
ascii_field: (samsung)
trinque: seems the above sd is intended for yeah, filming
danielpbarron: maybe it's a bad thumb drive i have
mircea_popescu: but as the guys say, maybe you find the magic stick.
trinque: buying it
nubbins`: so you're saying a synced .bitcoin/ copied to a usb2 thumb drive
nubbins`: and put into a pogo
nubbins`: will not pull down another block?
danielpbarron: nono, usb3
danielpbarron: and no, i haven't tried that
nubbins`: i said usb2 on purpose 8)
trinque: I like how they put 90mb/sec with a fucking asterisk on the thing's sticker
nubbins`: pogoplug mobile = usb2
mircea_popescu: nubbins` more like, it'll never catch up.
trinque: that will someday be the contracted form of "isn't"
mircea_popescu: lol trinque
mircea_popescu: "here's a large unrelated number *"
trinque: bullshit everywhere!
trinque bought
danielpbarron: would my .bitcoin/ data dir from 0.7.2 be compatible with 0.5.3.1 ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the situaton is : usb not usable for storage for our purposes, sd maybe usable. if one wants guidance, that's guidance, if one wants to do testing, that's your falsifiable hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron it should be yes.
danielpbarron: hm, that's my most up-to-date copy
nubbins`: same version of db?
assbot: Building Bitcoin 0.7.2 on OpenBSD | Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1y33fp8 )
ascii_field: anyways i'ma do another buildroot tonight.
nubbins`: danielpbarron assuming same bdb, i'd say they're interchangeable
nubbins`: we'd want, class 10 sd?
nubbins` admittedly knows zilch about sd
mircea_popescu: class sexually adult, if it existed. 18+
nubbins`: so uhs 3
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067542 << for the record, moving is easy, but a year later and with tons and tons of support and roots and whatnot i still throw almost-daily tantrums
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:06:50; asciilifeform: the 'pathology' was that these people imagined they wanted to move to japan, but what they -actually- wanted was: -to have always lived there-
assbot: Transcend TS128GSDU3 128 GB High Speed 10 UHS-3 Flash Memory Card 95/60 MB/s: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBmnmL )
nubbins`: 30MB/s writes if it's up to spec
mircea_popescu: it usually goes like "omfg, argentines are fucking retarded" "unlike who, romanians ?" "but look at X!" "myeah..." "you got a point. fucking people."
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067551 << which is why japan even still exists anymore. they made it to california, that imploded, now they're moving to texas and places. i was kinda snickering at trinque's explosion yest, bexause well... texas won't survive the idiots either.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:08:20; nubbins`: a lot of them don't make it to japan
mircea_popescu: it doesn't have a policy to take out libtards and shoot them. so it's doomed.
trinque: austin's being infested with californians, yep
nubbins`: callafornee
mircea_popescu: i loved texas in 2004ish. san antonio esp.
mircea_popescu: but i wouldn't revisit.
trinque: time to time I regress to the delusion that somewhere within the state's there's still actual entrepreneurship
trinque: *states
mircea_popescu: you know, like the american beauty notion that somewhere in the obnoxious bitch that's anette benning there's still the girl that flashed helicopters.
mircea_popescu: "just gotta find the right zit to pop, and out she goes"
trinque: lol
assbot: Bug in forum software let people on while set offline DEFEATING THE PURPOSE OF GOING OFFLINE TO SPEED REBUILD! Now my IP only hence 403 msg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i see you got the boards delivert ?
nubbins`: re: bitseed node, are they using refurb HDDs or something?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i somehow doubt that guy has a problem with traffic.
nubbins`: SBC and 160GB hdd for $149, how they makin money!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Apparently he popped a RAID earlier this week and started his rebuild with the site still up
nubbins`: bahaha
nubbins`: <his disks> :(
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo guy runs a blogspot blog and has 50 followers. what difference does it make if its publicly visible or not.
mircea_popescu: public's not looking.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's his othersite with woes http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage
assbot: Finding the Treatment Options that Suck Less | The Good, the Bad & the Funny of these Crazy Meds ... ( http://bit.ly/1y36v43 )
mircea_popescu: o look, 403 didn't work either.
assbot: Medicated for Your Protection : Straitjacket T-Shirts ... ( http://bit.ly/1y36T2r )
mircea_popescu: im sure it's the damned forum bug.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 248.63, Best ask: 248.7, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 248.7, 24 hour volume: 62580.95742971, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 268.44, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 349081 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 1702 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 12 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 52114624863.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 11.55256
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.00023166 = 5.3398 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067616 << would not this problem be adequately solved with a huge slab of steel / al / we ?
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:21:38; nubbins`: the $300 one has... a domestic oven element. http://imgur.com/KJqDivg
assbot: Turkey: 'Guilt-Ridden' Japanese Engineer Kills Self Harakiri-Style over Bridge Collapse ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBr0wZ )
mircea_popescu: more points scored for japan than everything the us state dept did past decade put together.
trinque: I doubt I have the culture to even talk about honor but that seems in the ballpark
mircea_popescu: actually americans used to be pretty honorable as far as these things go.
mircea_popescu: then they became reasonable instead, sometime around ww1/ww2. by now...
nubbins`: mircea_popescu huge slab of steel = unreasonable heat-up times, plus the thing'd fall over frontwards
mircea_popescu: i thought this was used on a feeder, not 1 shirt at a time
Pierre_Rochard: http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/apple-acquires-durable-database-company-foundationdb/ < NoSQL just became NoDB. Everyone who jumped on that bandwagon got their comuppance
assbot: Apple Acquires Durable Database Company FoundationDB | TechCrunch ... ( http://bit.ly/1y3awFz )
mircea_popescu: if you do 1k of the things, metal is actualy very reasonable. just the right sort of q inertia
mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard heh.
nubbins`: this is a "Flash dryer" for semi-drying inks on-press between colors of ink
trinque: Pierre_Rochard: oh codd
nubbins`: i lay down a print, swing the arm 90deg to the left
nubbins`: dwell 10s while i print the next one, rotate again etc
nubbins`: THAT SAID, people can and do use the huge-coil ones
nubbins`: philippines in particular has a massive amount of small-industry silkscreen and almost all of them are using dismantled ovens for curing
jurov: actually that is what i meant, office rats can't really have honor. and without honor, also no role
mircea_popescu: jurov why couldn't they ?
nubbins`: which everyone thought was odd, until one guy from there explained how many ovens an actual flash cure would cost
mircea_popescu: see, to propose honor is somehow in the job ie external rather than i nthe person seems nonsense.
mircea_popescu: besides, historically, every new job was deemed to be "devoid of the possibility of honor"
nubbins`: you see some wild setups. like shirts being hung on a clothesline and wheeled across a 30 foot bank of hung oven elements
jurov: honorable person would refuse such job
mircea_popescu: i dunno about that.
jurov: know any counterexample?
mircea_popescu: now, you're right in saying that gender is not really an attribute of lower life forms, and if one becomes a part of some sort of machine the gender's useless to them, which is how we got bees and ants in the first place.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i dunno that there's something magical about the office automatically requiring this.
mircea_popescu: the uk ran offices of perfectly respectable folk for all of the 1800s.
mircea_popescu: for that matter - being A DOCTOR is becoming more like this, and wasn't like this before at all - it was the very pinnacle of liberal profession.
mircea_popescu: so i agree that punishing the plebs for being "bicurious" or "metrosexual" or "gender confused" or "Transsexual" or w/e is really silly, they're simply sexless.
mircea_popescu: but this does not flow from "office job" imo.
jurov: both cases were primarily defined tby going out and talking/doing something to people, not pushing papers and filling forms
nubbins`: hey, some people in office jobs have sharp teeth
mircea_popescu: jurov not sure socialisation is the key here. for instance, navigators perfectly honorable, except if not.
jurov: um, i can't put the finger exactly there
mircea_popescu: then again, pirates invented the "honor among thieves" thing which is what we're fundamentally continuating here. "how could there be rule of law otuside of usg ?!?!" "same way there was rule of law in the fucking bahamas"
trinque: jurov: are you equating office with cube-hell?
mircea_popescu: and this is where it comes out that mp sees only very moderate problems with "honor killings", for instance, as atrociously intoilerable they may seem to the libertard set. meanwhile mp sees some problem with say "hospital deaths", as totally benign and normal and expected they seem to the same set.
mircea_popescu: but not subscribing to that particular silly manicheism allows one to see that really, the modern story of "libertard society driving out honor society (aka, amusingly, honorata societa)" has everything to do with a happenstance :
mircea_popescu: that scientists happened to prefer working with one of the available ideologies rather than the other. there's nothing ~fundamental~ about the "well being" of democracy.
mircea_popescu: it all flows from packaging and selling other people's added value, and those other people are pointedly not part of the democracy, nor is their donation necessary in absolutely any sense.
mircea_popescu: so, on the score of "what is bitcoin disrupting" : getting scientists to donate to a honor-based system rather than to a socialism-based system will utterly restructure society.
mircea_popescu: /end rant
trinque: hm yeah, and the thing has inertia. places with scientists are better places for scientists, that sort of thing?
BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00019609 / 0.00022267 / 0.00025613 (1540463 shares, 343.03 BTC), 7D: 0.00019609 / 0.00028556 / 0.00033536 (17997385 shares, 5,139.37 BTC), 30D: 0.00019609 / 0.00034935 / 0.0004493 (81056609 shares, 28,317.29 BTC)
mircea_popescu: truth is scientists can't really be anything but scientists.
mircea_popescu: if they buy into the entire "socialist nice" thing, as exemplified by say the original dispute that created this place, or whatever recent quiote from some linus criticism of poettering's or w/e, you get one sort of failure mode of science.
mircea_popescu: if they buy into the entire honor thing, you get a different failure mode.
mircea_popescu: in principle whichever ideology (ie, principle of societal organisation) offers best insulation from failure modes will prevail.
mircea_popescu: since somehow "tradition" was for a while cognate with "don't need to read or write or even know history, tradition is what i say it is", there was a major, multi-secular migration towards "liberalism"
mircea_popescu: as that shit's coming to hit the fan with its "equality" and whatnot, the whole tectonic plaque's going to come this way again.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.00022649 = 6.1605 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: and so on. it's not just the dusk of "america", it's the end of "democracy" and liberalism etc.
trinque: this way being hierarchial power structures, wealth defining governance?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00022532 = 2.6024 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this way being hard to pinpoint yet, but mostly a wot based, loose and half anon, gpg empowered, bitcoin measured thing.
mircea_popescu: we're getting a new body, it's wot-innervated and bitcoin-perfused and im starting to guess the musculature etc.
trinque: mhm
mircea_popescu: most things too early to tell really.
mircea_popescu: for lolz, contrast this with the entire "we don't understand bitcoin but are excited at the blockchain technology" thingee.
jurov: these scientists need to be funded, and somehow despite mpex, this isn't happening
mircea_popescu: gossip networks and fault tolerant pow. stuff that was there for decades. "we don't understand what matters but we'll stick to clutching at the straws we recognise"
jurov: alf's everyday ramblings are case in point
mircea_popescu: suddenly the "don't need to read or write" shoe is on the other, liberal foot.
trinque: jurov: seems like it's early days
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, most infants have dayjobs too, the feed themselves o.O
mircea_popescu: read the case in point in say henry millers' books. the guy DROVE the sexual revolution,
mircea_popescu: he'smore a part of it than max fucking hardcore.
mircea_popescu: he also starved.
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "BTC to rise vs USD in March" http://bitbet.us/bet/1125/ Odds: 44(Y):56(N) by coin, 77(Y):23(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.088943 BTC. Current weight: 16,043.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33589 @ 0.00022402 = 7.5246 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: money comes after the glory.
trinque: good documentary about the band Death that invented punk rock
trinque: bunch of black dudes from Detroit
trinque: the leader there died of alcoholism or something along those lines
trinque: mircea_popescu: the permanent social memory thing; that's what interested me in deedbot
trinque: whatever's said there lasts at least as long as the currency
trinque: hell of a mark of cain
jurov: fuck the starvation
jurov: goodnight
mircea_popescu: jurov i couldn't agree more.
trinque: I have to admire someone who dies with a finger pointed at someplace better.
trinque: though I admire more the man who creates the better place
mircea_popescu: in the end, different people.
mircea_popescu: trinque people always wanted to fight forgetfulness huh.
trinque: I don't follow
mircea_popescu: lemme find you the quote
mircea_popescu: Pedalavo come se fuggissi, e in realtà fuggivo. Da lei, da quelle emozioni, dai sogni, dai ricordi, da tutto e pensavo che dovevo dimenticare. Ero certo che sarei riuscito a dimenticare, ma oggi che sono vecchio, che ho consumato banalmente la vita, che ho conosciuto tante donne che mi hanno detto: “Ricordati di me” e io le ho scordate tutte, ancora oggi e’ lei l’unica che non ho mai dimenticato. Malena!
mircea_popescu: you seen that movie ?
trinque: I haven't
mircea_popescu: ah, check it out sometime
trinque: should I be able to parse the quotation without the film?
trinque: comment on obsession?
mircea_popescu: well... on memory.
mircea_popescu: but no, i dun think its meaningful without the film
assbot: Memorial University students give 'rotten' cafeteria food a failing grade - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xfo6dR )
pete_dushenski: aramark funken blows
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067650 << guy that brought singapore from just under india to just above uk through five decades of caning.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:28:54; asciilifeform: in other news, lee kuan yew is dead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00021681 = 2.6559 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: singapore is now apple without steve jobs
mircea_popescu: well, going to china anyway
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067669 << quite. except, there's a difference between understanding and controlling.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:45:18; nubbins`: put another way: those who are unable to judge the character/nature of others are more likely to wish for escape, and their disability follows them to their new life, where they make the same sort of mistakes they'd make at home
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067693 "You're not seeing "a kid" that "made" "X money" with "a story". You're seeing an economic process. It's an ad. It converts to some degree, like any ad."
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:56:10; asciilifeform: reminds me of how when clinton was half-heartedly prosecuting microshit for antitrust violations, some 'think tank' (cato? i forget) had a 'microsoft defense fund' that the public was invited to contribute to !
funkenstein_: bring your air filter
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00023166 = 5.166 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: i just watched "under the dome" documentary on china air pollution
funkenstein_: good evening gentlemen
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:20:55; asciilifeform: the kind involving armoured trucks, rockets, demolition charges
pete_dushenski: "Get ready to ride in style Singapore, we’ve added supercars to the Uber platform. Starting this Saturday, March 21st, you will be able to request a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder or Maserati GranTurismo Coupe to come pick you up." << yew moves out, uber moves in.
mircea_popescu: buncha guys broke a coupla 17 yos out of juvenile detention. a
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the guy they were actually there to break out had already escapeds.
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_ did they feature the peri-air ?
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067737 << so wait, the case can only close if man = bad, woman = good ? no other outcome available ?
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:22:59; asciilifeform: 'Longo said the case is suspended, not closed. He said the fact that investigators could not find evidence “doesn’t mean that something terrible didn’t happen to Jackie.”'
funkenstein_: pete_dushenski, no i hadn't heard of it
mircea_popescu: why would anyone partake ? "i am not taking part in your kangaroo mockery. you want to either win or flip again, i dun have time for that"
pete_dushenski: !s canned air
assbot: 1 results for 'canned air' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=canned+air
pete_dushenski: ^yup. that'd be the one
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:25:53; nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/ksBVtHB.png
pete_dushenski: straight out of space balls.
funkenstein_: wow
mircea_popescu: seriously, women want to feel like something (even cancer) would fuck em ? heh
assbot: Perri-Air - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRpnb1 )
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform i see you got the boards delivert << aha see pics
trinque: #makers << my sides
asciilifeform: would not this problem be adequately solved with a huge slab of steel / al << i did say.
asciilifeform: Japanese Engineer Kills Self Harakiri-Style over Bridge Collapse << mega-respekt!!!
asciilifeform takes off hat
asciilifeform: office rats can't really have honor << wtf sure they can
asciilifeform: but then again it is rather like saying that sewer rats could read reddit (yes, the occasional iPnohe falls into a street drain.)
asciilifeform: getting scientists to donate to a honor-based system rather than to a socialism-based system will utterly restructure society << funnily orlov is 100% with this program, in his own peculiar way
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ...the original dispute that created this place... << now i'm curious
asciilifeform: what was it.
asciilifeform: <jurov> these scientists need to be funded, and somehow despite mpex, this isn't happening << jurov has it, unfortunately. we are in the jungle still.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: gmaxwell's anti-porn/free-speech stance
BingoBoingo: !up decimation
nubbins`: S.LORDSHIP-GENERAL-PROJECT-FUNDING
decimation: asciilifeform: have you tested the boards?
nubbins`: or, what was it the guy tried to pass off? "the peerage"
asciilifeform: Adlai: starting to warm... << one of the two practically-usable programming -systems- (note, i didn't say 'languages') designed by and for thinking people
asciilifeform: decimation: yes, tested. see photos.
asciilifeform: decimation: not proper test (will have to happen in weekend) but does output visually correct results.
decimation: where's the pics?
asciilifeform: in log, 1sec
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:10:21; asciilifeform: in other news: http://imgur.com/YqbQh33,VN8dqBv,xJ6WGhl,nTPgWYW,WX6hpiT#4
decimation: ah I was looking for png
decimation: well, it doesn't short, and has serial-ly output somewhere, these are good things
asciilifeform: decimation: it's a 100% analogue device, actually
asciilifeform: well, 99%
decimation: I've been thinking about building a 'geiger counter' rng like herr walker's
asciilifeform: not especially hard
assbot: A little bit of Bitcoin history pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xfqLUU )
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu
asciilifeform blew dust off pogotron and warming up
asciilifeform: considerably easier now that i have it booting off the lan
asciilifeform: ('i want too!' -- then see listserv)
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-03-2015#1064748 < yeah, this might make more sense - a conventional drone with missile. the important point is that these would be loitering at random radii and altitudes, making apriori 'air defense' clearance difficult
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 06:08:33; ben_vulpes: <decimation> I just thought of a brilliant anti-'area denial' (to usg term) weapon system. imagine a small turboprop uav ... that can drop its wings and turn into kerosene rocket << why bother with expensive turbomachinery? just use solid propellants...
decimation: asciilifeform: did you get the remote u-boot console working?
asciilifeform: decimation: i did, long ago, and replaced with real serial console
asciilifeform: which is considerably more pleasant to use
decimation: i imagine so
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00021568 = 1.3696 BTC [-]
assbot: Plugging a 1986 Mac Plus into the modern Web ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRtiod )
BingoBoingo: ^ latest in tradition of people doing this
asciilifeform: lol, CONFIG_SERIAL_MPSC_CONSOLE
asciilifeform: ^ not in buildroot menus, because tards
asciilifeform: or alternatively, 'quit believing the docs'
asciilifeform: hint to others: NEVER 'make clean' on a working buildroot cross-compilation tree
asciilifeform: nukes the toolchain (incl. gcc) too.
asciilifeform: that's another hour or three that i will have no useful output.
decimation: lol is that a freebsd feature?
assbot: ‘The Anarchist Cookbook’ and the rise of DIY terrorism ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRtPqu )
decimation: asciilifeform: did you see this http://www.manux.info/en/
assbot: The Manux operating system ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRtQuu )
decimation: it's an utterly crippled version of 'linux' with all the crud stripped out
asciilifeform: 'Withstanding zero-day attacks in userspace' << by definition impossible
decimation: it also is apparently nonfunctional
decimation: "Uh, many. It's currently text-only, its IP stack isn't functionnal and will have to be partly rewritten, privilege-checking isn't implemented, it can't handle more than one hard drive..."
asciilifeform: very bad phrasing right off the bat
asciilifeform: can't speak for anything else in there
asciilifeform: appears to be vaguely minix-flavoured
decimation: my daughter loves to watch Кро́т cartoons now
asciilifeform: decimation: i never saw the animated one. only had the book
decimation: heh I didn't realize there was a book
assbot: Новотны Й. - Крот в городе, скачать бесплатно книгу в формате fb2, doc, rtf, html, txt ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRujN4 )
asciilifeform has not checked the quality of the scan
asciilifeform: could be full of spam
decimation: somewhat related, apparently you can order books, music, dvds from amazon.de for 3eur + 3eur per kg shipping (to the us)
asciilifeform: woah that was fast
asciilifeform: (build finished)
asciilifeform: still no dice though. no console output
asciilifeform: found shitgnomery though
asciilifeform: where it apparently strips flags one added manually to .config
asciilifeform: for no particularly good reason
brendafdez: This is weird, do I lose cloak when using the web interface? :/
brendafdez: not nice.
BingoBoingo: You lose cloak with webchat, also logging
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00021322 = 2.9424 BTC [-]
brendafdez: what does it mean I lose logging? local logs? bc I do see it in the online log for the channel
brendafdez: Neteller will gladly take your bitcoin in exchange for their tokens, at no cost. You can proceed to then spend them through their debit card and such... http://www.coindesk.com/neteller-bitcoin-deposit-policy-reversal/
assbot: NETELLER Adds Bitcoin Deposit Option in Surprise Policy Reversal ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRvUTb )
brendafdez: No bitcoin payoutsa, however
BingoBoingo: The local logs
Adlai: brendafdez: identify before joining the channel and you'll be cloaked
Adlai: even better, use sasl (Auth to services: ☑)
nubbins`: !s bitnodes
assbot: 9 results for 'bitnodes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitnodes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00021321 = 2.2067 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 246.32, vol: 19197.38270643 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 247.456, vol: 13466.6437 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 246.32, vol: 64980.74454729 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 249.99, vol: 47.82915974 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 243.810164, vol: 199545.78660000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 247.04008, vol: 29.82396973 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 247.8613, vol: 143.09772369 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
funkenstein_: bezzle over 4 millies again
funkenstein_: anybody give me a book review? http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/1530.cfm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00021305 = 3.1105 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: alright, new droplet created for x32 deb6 testing.
Adlai: ;;more
gribble: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
Adlai: ;;more BingoBoingo
gribble: average: 244.688886748
assbot: dpaste: 3Z7TTT1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRA2T2 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00021457 = 4.4845 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00021655 = 4.2011 BTC [+]
mod6: x32 OpenSSL built: requires adding -m32 flag to ./Configure & setting: SSL_ARCH_TYPE=linux-generic32
mod6: will work on bdb & boost... will publish findings/changes to mailing list when complete...
nubbins`: pin woot
trinque: danielpbarron: ^
mod6: bdb built
mod6: building boost...
asciilifeform: 'This might be unduly harsh, but if Atomwise can do what they say, why are they on Ycombinator? Pull up to a big pharma, ask for some minimally proprietary data, and let the computers go to work. It'd be like printing winning lottery tickets.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah you did say, and yeah i guess pretty much everyone honestly trying has figured out the same thing, if not necessarily apt to express it.
mircea_popescu: re orlov.
asciilifeform: speaking of...
assbot: ClubOrlov: Financial Feudalism ... ( http://bit.ly/1BjO0cO )
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> where it apparently strips flags one added manually to .config << ahahaha
mircea_popescu: such logical.
asciilifeform: since phixed
mod6: ok statically linked bitcoind x32 version built & pulling blocks.
asciilifeform: now trying to find which of the 5 supported marvells is actually compatible with kirkwood
asciilifeform: (which, naturally, isn't)
mircea_popescu: <brendafdez> No bitcoin payoutsa, however << a) nothing surprising about it and b) everyone wants to get as many btc as humanly possible before having to admit it.
asciilifeform: i would dearly love to know what kind of 'open source' the folks who built that archlinux kernel practice.
asciilifeform: where, for instance, is their config ?
mod6: it's 1 change to the auto.sh file, & have to have the 3 vars at the top set correctly. I'll post a copy of this auto.sh, a diff to the 64 bit version and a diff to the original portatronic version yet tonight.
asciilifeform: they are in violation of gpl and, if anyone were actually concerned with this, would be made to swallow a hammer or whatever it is that is supposed to happen to such hooligans
mod6: > 15000 blocks & counting...
mircea_popescu: this is why i don't like reading orlov. the propaganda angle doesn't bother me as much, but the millitant, sheer ignorance does.
mircea_popescu: find a fucking count that was allegiant to a duke in the entire history of feudalism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10805 @ 0.00022068 = 2.3844 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i am willing to bet, on the strength of that diagram, that his disneyland notions of "feudalism" preclude him even knowing WHEN in time this happened
mircea_popescu: protip : no, it's not 1550, that's the cinquecento in italy, feudalism is already dead and rotting everywhere.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's using a ru dictionary, betcah
asciilifeform: *betcha
mircea_popescu: even so.
mircea_popescu: russia did not exist. the various duchies were not even feudal ffs.
asciilifeform: aha but the man's dictionary
asciilifeform: duke outranks count there, so.
thestringpuller: cyrptofeudalism is awesome
mircea_popescu: "outranks" is a purely courtly consideration
mircea_popescu: "what order do they follow the monarch in"
mircea_popescu: by the time anyone cares about this feudalism was long defeated.
mircea_popescu: in any case : counts as in, counts palatine, counts of the hre, etc, were sovereign.
mircea_popescu: dukes did not by and large exist, unless you mean dux, which was a leader of fucking cataphracts
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he meant герцог
mircea_popescu: marsh lord, what is known as marquis, actually outranked counts at court, chiefly because being the lord of a marsh he had much more legal power than the head of settled land
asciilifeform: this is pretty clear
asciilifeform: hertzog
mircea_popescu: and on and on and fucking on it goes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's a count
asciilifeform: граф
mod6: ok im gonna stop this thing, rebuild one more time for good measure, then will create diffs & publish.
asciilifeform: see i can tell where he got it.
mircea_popescu: grof ? that's a hungarian/polish count.
asciilifeform: and guess what other kind.
mircea_popescu: hey, more power to you, but really...
mircea_popescu: "here's what i remember of this bad translation of a phenomena by some people who didn't live it, and who are so far from me culturally i in turn have no idea. let's make an infographic and educate reddit."
mircea_popescu: pssssshhh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'll add that this is (or was) sop in ru world
mircea_popescu: ima insist this is no path to understanding
asciilifeform: sorta like those 'c' programmers who #define'd themselves BEGIN and END blocks
mircea_popescu: it may be a path to "respek" an autoritah
asciilifeform: it's an ill habit, sorta like the elaborate rules for mistransliterating german and english
asciilifeform: (in ru)
decimation: landgraf
decimation: ^graf who reports directly to emperor
mircea_popescu: decimation landgraf aka margrave aka march lord is a post-feudalist construct
mircea_popescu: "about half the power a count used to have back when the counts of belgium dominated france, for to protect the country borders"
mircea_popescu: (march = marsh = border, in this understanding. strips of marginal and thus uninhabited lands)
mircea_popescu: anyway. the peak of feudalism is around the peak of things like the tournoi as a public sport.
mircea_popescu: it was ending just as the hansa was coming into its own.
asciilifeform thought that this was reasonably well known
decimation: The German titles of Landgraf, Markgraf, and Pfalzgraf bei Rhein are in the same class of ranks as Herzog ("duke") and above the rank of a Graf ("count").
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unapparent from the orlov piece.
assbot: Landgrave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDonu2 )
mircea_popescu: decimation before long you'll be looking into subtle distinctions such as between "king of germany" and "king in germany"
asciilifeform: 'salute the uniform, not the man!' (TM)
decimation: Herr Fredrick took the "of" for himself
mircea_popescu: but basically, feudalism and metalwork almost look as a zero sum game : as the latter develops the former fades
mircea_popescu: (in favour of the centralised state)
mircea_popescu: in NO CASE was feudalism replaced by capitalism tho.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying bows were replaced by submachine guns. well... no. at absolutely no point had people using bows encountered people using submachine guns.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can tell he's using the su version of capitalism (it being, 'what is left when you subtract stone age + feudalism + communism from the cosmic background hiss)
mircea_popescu: perhaps an argument can be brought for places like sicily cca 1930, but it is still very tenuous.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with using a language is that you're stuck using it according to itself tho. this is like, orlov horribly mauled a teenaged girl and you're like "well clearly the bear thought her cunt's salmon."
mircea_popescu: this may be true, but the girl's still pretty badly bloodied.
asciilifeform: or, less crackpottishly, the idea of ascendancy of the merchant class probably equals capitalism in his head
mircea_popescu: the merchant class was ascendant cca 1300!
mircea_popescu: which i wager is before he thinks feudalism STARTS
decimation: polish calvary charging the motorized wehrmacht?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26066 @ 0.00021246 = 5.538 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: decimation that cavalry was not feudal tho. prussian military.
decimation: ah true
mircea_popescu: it was imperialism vs early steampunk democracy
mircea_popescu: sort of a rehash of napoleonic conflicts.
decimation: fredrick inspired much socialistoid bureaucracy too
mircea_popescu: the centralised state can only be a centralised state after all.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10235 @ 0.00021359 = 2.1861 BTC [+]
decimation: my male line lived under the landgraf hesse-homburg for at least 400 years
decimation: it was rolled up into prussistan
mircea_popescu: "A new system of economic relations was brought into being, based on money that could be generated at will, in the form of debt" << this is EXACTLY unrelated to capitalism.
mircea_popescu: for most of the industrial revolution, late 1600s to early 1900s, this view was exactly not held.
mircea_popescu: moreover, as late as during ww2, the west thought the war is mostly about preventing exactly that.
mircea_popescu: i mean shit, you can't go around conflating everything you don't know about for chrissakes.
mircea_popescu has angrily closed that blogspot
asciilifeform: unrelated,
asciilifeform: i can tell none of you tried to build pogo's vendor kernel
asciilifeform: (perhaps can already guess what happens)
nubbins`: doesn't work!
asciilifeform: doesn't build
asciilifeform: on any modern toolchain
decimation: And in fact there was a rear-guard action, launched in May of 1944, just before the Bretton Woods Conference, by a group of influential New York bankers, who very much hated the Bretton Woods agenda. They offered to lend Britain at least $3 billion dollars after the War, in return for which Britain would walk away from the Bretton Woods Conference. Clarke and others in the British Treasury wanted to pursue this idea. But Keynes would
decimation: have none of it. ... Because he wanted to be known as the man who overthrew the gold standard and replaced it with a new, rational, managed international monetary system. So he very much had his own personal legacy at heart here. <http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/02/benn_steil_on_t.html
asciilifeform: nor is there any ready means for determining which un-modern combination of tools it -did- build on
assbot: dpaste: 1YQR1W7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDsSF2 )
mod6: pulled over 70k blocks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 300 @ 0.00354894 = 1.0647 BTC [-]
decimation: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 247.2, Best ask: 247.23, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 247.25, 24 hour volume: 65365.6785161, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 267.49, 24 hour vwap: None
mod6: it seems a bit silly to post a patch also back to the original portatronic version for this. anyone have any objections if i just publish a full copy of the 32bit auto.sh and a patch of auto.sh to the previous version (v0.0.5 included in the -RELEASE) ?
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Silver at or over $22/oz before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1132/ Odds: 55(Y):45(N) by coin, 55(Y):45(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.665139 BTC. Current weight: 99,430.
danielpbarron: what does the portatronic thing do differently?
BingoBoingo: Ah, we're unthreading all of the vocabulary today!
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: specified toolchain for possible cross-compilation
danielpbarron: that's it? i thought maybe it patched stuff in the source or something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14728 @ 0.00021005 = 3.0936 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: going once... going twice ... SOLD! to the man with 3 letters and integer in his nick
mircea_popescu: decimation quite.
mircea_popescu: so to conflate "modern idiotic usgtronics" with "capitalism" which in turn conflates with "everything minus stone age, feudalism, and the soviets" is...
mircea_popescu: well distilled imbecility, frankly.
mircea_popescu: "teach the faux controversy mayhap people forget shit doesn't have tyo be eaten"
asciilifeform: still no boot, with this >> http://dpaste.com/2Z0E50V.txt
asciilifeform: (kernel config)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron there wouldn't normally be huge differences.
asciilifeform: building for arm922t which, as far as i can tell, marvell is compatible with.
asciilifeform: hangs on jump into kernel.
asciilifeform: just like the... 57? previous linux kernels i built for this thing.
asciilifeform: no signs of life.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12633 @ 0.00020725 = 2.6182 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so basically no os whatsoever builds on these things ?
asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/2MSHFN2.txt << buildroot config for completeness
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not quite. netbsd builds
decimation: keynes threw england into the shitter just so he could 'win at the game of life'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is the -only- thing i was able to build from source and actually get a shell on
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hence why i spent so long on it
nubbins`: kirkwood has 2x sata?
asciilifeform: http://buildroot.uclibc.org << anyone who wants to re-create my experiment, now can
assbot: Buildroot: making embedded Linux easy ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDziUy )
asciilifeform: use the two configs posted just now.
asciilifeform: one is buildroot's, the other is the kernel's
asciilifeform: nubbins`: 1
asciilifeform: or wait
asciilifeform: if you're thinking of speed - 2
asciilifeform: (1 connector, 2x speed)
asciilifeform: oh, and in case this wasn't clear,
asciilifeform: -none of these os-en build on the machine itself!!!-
asciilifeform: must use cross-compiler
nubbins`: "Two SATA 2.0 ports with integrated PHYs"
nubbins` shrugs
asciilifeform: nubbins`: one's a phantom limb, i think
asciilifeform: at any rate, precisely one plug.
nubbins`: "security engine"!
asciilifeform: we don't use it for anything
asciilifeform: does - would you believe - accelerated xor.
decimation: one sign that nobody is rich today is that nobody could possibly dream of floating the national debt of england
nubbins`: or a sign nobody's been that poor before
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> nubbins`: one's a phantom limb, i think << Phantom limbs got me much less excited about the latest Sun hardware I'd been investigating when the problem of keeping a post 2016 blockchain would have been a big challenge. (IDE limited to sub 127 GB, USB 1.1, and Firewire ports unsupported in OS of choice which means gambling on PCI USB 2.0 card working for moar storage)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> does - would you believe - accelerated xor. << megalol
BingoBoingo: In other news I discovered apparently firefighting trains exist
assbot: Gentoo Linux Documentation-- Gentoo on the Marvell SheevaPlug ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDC6Ru )
nubbins`: might be something of interest there
asciilifeform: nubbins`: there most certainly was not.
asciilifeform: was first place i looked way back when.
BingoBoingo: sheevaplug seems to be different beast for reasons only Vishnu knows
asciilifeform: that isn't why
BingoBoingo: sorry, reasons only Vishnuplug knows
asciilifeform: just that there is no meaningful detail in there about config for 3.18
asciilifeform: (or anything else)
asciilifeform: anyone here have pogo with debian running?
asciilifeform: please extract the config & post
asciilifeform: zcat /proc/config.gz > config.txt
asciilifeform: note that this may or may not work depending on whether the kernel was built with this enabled
asciilifeform: if no one has debian, but someone has arch - please post that
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mod6, danielpbarron, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes ???
asciilifeform: punkman ?
BingoBoingo yet to try .foundation build as spec'd, mostly has moar weird in his plan pipeline
nubbins`: gzip: /proc/config.gz: No such file or directory
nubbins`: haha wat.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: snipped to save space then
asciilifeform: but it means that there is no way to replicate the kernel build short of catching the perpetrator and slowly roasting him over a fire
nubbins`: (probably 0)
asciilifeform: nubbins`: not 3.18 !
nubbins`: right, 2.6
nubbins`: don't mind me
assbot: config-3.16.0-kirkwood-tld-3 - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDFZpD )
asciilifeform: nubbins`: from where ?
assbot: Linux Kernel 3.18 (FDT) and 3.16 (non-FDT) Kirkwood package and rootfs ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDG3Wh )
assbot: Qui's techNOLOGY Blog: Hacking the Pogoplug v4 (Series 4 and Mobile) with Linux (Debian or Arch) ... ( http://bit.ly/1LaLl9S )
nubbins`: which is what i followed to get my pogo up and running
nubbins`: but i think the guide i used was for 3.18
nubbins`: shrug
asciilifeform: nubbins`: ty, about to test it
nubbins`: np, lmk!
gribble: What do you think I am, a shell?
asciilifeform: woah the sheer amount of turdage in that one
nubbins`: it's looooooooooong, hey?
asciilifeform: crapolade that is not possibly used for anything, ever.
asciilifeform: i mean, it's 10x the size
asciilifeform: every possible sound card, gpu,...
nubbins`: i thought i accidentally pasted twice when scrolling down to pastebin submit button!
nubbins`: "for GoFlex Home/Net, Pogoplug E02/Mobile/V4, iConnect, Dockstar, Sheevaplug, NSA320, NSA325, Topkick, and all other Kirkwood plugs that are already in the mainline"
nubbins`: in other words, bring your own scissors :0
asciilifeform: and that is why ten thousand joysticks ?
asciilifeform: still building
asciilifeform: and for who knows how long.
mircea_popescu: !up eric
BingoBoingo: !up eric
nubbins`: shrug
nubbins`: !up eric
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17314 @ 0.00021445 = 3.713 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 247.58, Best ask: 247.72, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 247.97, 24 hour volume: 65174.61242121, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 267.49, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: nubbins`: no signs of life
asciilifeform: nubbins`: from that kernel.
asciilifeform: (the extra mass in the config was actually from building every possible module. which went into the rootfs and had no impact on the kernel proper)
nubbins`: boo. didja try 3.18 or .16
asciilifeform: anyway it's just as dead as the last maxint kernels
asciilifeform: nubbins`: 3.18
asciilifeform: which comes with buildroot
asciilifeform: using your config
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00021445 = 3.9244 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: perhaps pogolinux is actually just OS/2 with gratuitous text substitution?
BingoBoingo also learned today all of his most exotic fire extinguisher ideas have largely been incorporated into class D fire extinguishers already except for the DU based supressant idea
asciilifeform: the famous kerosene fire extinguisher.
asciilifeform: (hey it extinguishes - eventually.)
BingoBoingo: And the carbon tetrachloride fire extinguishing grenade
BingoBoingo: JetA puts out fires pretty well though provided you are flicking a cigarette butt into a bucket of JetA most of the time
BingoBoingo: God dammit, coyotes are back already this year
nubbins`: he's got config files going back to 3.8.11 fwiw
nubbins`: all hyooj
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