Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-03-09 | 2015-03-11 → ↓
ben_vulpes: https://vid.me/e/HNrC << working on obedience at distance in casa vulpes esta noche
assbot: Video upload (HNrC) - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOfSdC )
decimation: mircea_popescu: re: terrorist < eh, I don't see it. what does it benefit the terrorist to even bother?
decimation: other than being a megalomaniac and/or sick fuck
decimation: on another note, another lesson to learn from the french revolution: the problem with being a lefty populist is that there's always someone else who is a little more left and a little more populist
decimation: because unlike reactionaries, nobody on the left can actually claim to legitimately vest sovereignty in a particular person - all leftist government are of a temporary and emergency nature
cazalla: not that i'd buy one, but at least these new mac laptops have 16:10 display.. with all the 16:9's doing away with master race 16:10's, it must be coming back into fashion
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that beast yours ?
asciilifeform: longdog is long
decimation: asciilifeform: re: old macbooks < apparently coreboot supports the old 1,1 and 2,1 macbooks
asciilifeform: decimation: iirc 'efi' (standard apple/sun/sgi bootloader) a) has published source b) doesn't do particularly much in the first place
decimation: yeah, good point.
decimation: the main issue are all the peripherals. they sort of work.
decimation: but probably not suspend-to-ram
asciilifeform has had more than his fill of 'sort of work
decimation: more interesting are all of the server motherboards, but it seems like support is limited to old opterons
asciilifeform: pretty much whole amd product line works
ben_vulpes: why is suspend to ram such a big deal?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: for me in particular? or asking why difficult to implement correctly
ben_vulpes: for you in particular.
asciilifeform: because i often use machine for a minute or two at a time
asciilifeform: and then put back on shelf or in bag
asciilifeform: and have no desire to boot
asciilifeform: or, conversely, to lose state when closed down
asciilifeform does not carry out crypto or secret work of whatever kind on such machines
ben_vulpes: http://imgur.com/F6KDREa << my beast, fairly long. yellow object is nine inches.
ben_vulpes: also tonight the beast acquired a new trick: "hold the fuck still while i put things on you"
cazalla: i love dogs but a dog in the house.. i dunno mang
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes got the dog properly level ?
cazalla: my staffy lived for 16 years and she was only permitted into the laundry
asciilifeform: leg shape in toilet on upper right hand corner of photo is ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: or other pet
cazalla: asciilifeform, towel or gown is my bed
cazalla: bet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00032869 = 7.0011 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: hahahahaha
ben_vulpes: towel.
ben_vulpes: y'no see the tag, and the drapes, and the tag, and the being of in the bathroom?
mircea_popescu: <decimation> other than being a megalomaniac and/or sick fuck << kinda the definition.
asciilifeform: processing of homo redditicus by countereconomic 'hobbyist' sick fuck is only one possibility
asciilifeform: there is also colonization and industrial rendering for biodiesel.
asciilifeform: a la incas or east eur. / east asia circa ww2
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6546 @ 0.00032732 = 2.1426 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 295.55, Best ask: 295.58, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 295.58, 24 hour volume: 69823.21671155, 24 hour low: 278.21, 24 hour high: 298.95, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00031871 = 4.3823 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65671 @ 0.00032748 = 21.5059 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: hey, has doge registered the .moon tld yet ?
mircea_popescu: doge.moon sounds pretty apt.
BingoBoingo: No idea if they have? can they afford a tld?
mircea_popescu: well if they sold all the doge in the world...
mircea_popescu: i guess the answer im looking for is no.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047115 << this is why i don't quite buy the "trillion dollar project" argument.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 00:04:10; mircea_popescu: i can accept that SOME PEOPLE actually need their monitor to graphics. so make a gamestation. otherwise, we're fucking literate, we're not women, nothing beats text. ever.
mircea_popescu: which argument is that ?
ben_vulpes: redoing modern compute is impossible without your own icbm and maintenance staff for.
ben_vulpes: icmbs*
ben_vulpes: and silos and etc etc
mircea_popescu: ah. alf just likes hyperbolae
ben_vulpes: i know this, but for the loggerheads.
mircea_popescu: a pretty good place to deploy them, too.
ben_vulpes: the argument deserves surfacing.
mircea_popescu: no rush anyway.
ben_vulpes: it's a trillion dollar project if you swallow the whole spitoon of what constitutes modern computing.
ben_vulpes: x11, the whole nine.
mircea_popescu: the world was apparently content to wait fifty fucking years for us to come along
mircea_popescu: it can wait while i finish my cake slice too.
mircea_popescu: it's so apt that, you know that ilf of ilf & petrov fame also was an initialism ?
mircea_popescu: for that matter, it is unclear to me that the notion of "fonts" adds any value whatsoever and is anything other than shitgnomism, 80s flavour.
mircea_popescu: not to mention i still distinctly recall my cat-ish mistrust as an 8 yo boy confronted with "special symbols". why exactly something like $ is even needed, or useful, is imo still open to debate.
mircea_popescu: 27 fucking letters and be happy if you get case next version.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/who-made-this/
mircea_popescu: and with that, i'm off!
assbot: kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source tree ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hs5VCs )
cazalla: thestringpuller, ya see hotline miami 2 is out.. i didn't, it's fucking banned in australia lol
ben_vulpes: movies get banned in oz?
cazalla: yes, e.g battle royale
cazalla: ken park was another
[]bot: Bet placed: 11 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 20(Y):80(N) by weight. Total bet: 41.1069007 BTC. Current weight: 98,697.
assbot: USB Killer ... ( http://bit.ly/1E7ZbbH )
mats: hello cuties
ben_vulpes: oh that's delightful
davout: ;;later tell mircea_popescu hory shet, i was just thinking about this, how every single bitcoin noob and nigger displays this particular feature, he has "found a problem", and "wants to fix it"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18500 @ 0.00032202 = 5.9574 BTC [-]
davout: !rate justusranvier -10 not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6614a2b084e35879
davout: !v assbot:davout.rate.justusranvier.-10:33cf38a1d7094b723a4e8dabbdb8362d2aabe73a3027fd1c9005f12243acc4b7
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -10 for justusranvier with note: not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
davout: ;;rate justusranvier -10 not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
davout: ;;eauth davout
gribble: Request successful for user davout, hostmask davout!~david@unaffiliated/davout. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/13288EAB01713428
davout: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:a6e8e3d9994b6f86570a948a761d8f8e9ec7e8f7240bc14b45ee3c59
gribble: You are now authenticated for user davout with key 13288EAB01713428
davout: ;;rate justusranvier -10 not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user justusranvier has been recorded.
cazalla: davout, that 20mb block size limit thread derailed 50 pages back
davout: cazalla: yeah, that's right. i just need to kill some time while http://xkcd.com/303/
assbot: xkcd: Compiling ... ( http://bit.ly/1wVwPlw )
kakobrekla: speaking of xkcd, such pogo: http://xkcd.com/1495/
assbot: xkcd: Hard Reboot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZBAWd )
davout: kakobrekla: lmao
davout: kakobrekla: you're not coming to BA btw?
kakobrekla: correct.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00032869 = 3.0239 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15327 @ 0.00032921 = 5.0458 BTC [+] {3}
davout: kakobrekla: :-(
cazalla: I’m actually, right now, working on just getting consensus among the five, what I call, core developers — the five developers who have push access to the git code. I think I’m getting close to convincing them that we have a plan that will work. I’m probably going to have to write some more code . . . I think we have a year to eighteen months. I would love the next release of bitcoin — the next major release, which will be sometime
cazalla: in the June timeframe — to have a scheduled hardfork to increase the block size in it. I probably won’t get there. It’ll probably be in the release after that, but we’ll see.
cazalla: i'll give you one guess as to who i am quoting
davout: cazalla: gah-veen of course
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27067 @ 0.00032643 = 8.8355 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: cazalla: battle royale << i'm sorry but that was a terrible movie, basically Running Man without arnie = worthless
cazalla: how dare you!
cazalla: adlai, are you sure you're not confusing br1 with br2?
adlai: usually i like cult films but this is an exception, if it wasn't for hours of boredom that had to be staved off somehow i'd never have even finished it
adlai: hmmaybe? i just watched whatever the other sergeant said was a movie we had to watch
adlai spent >90% of his lifelong screen-watching-time in the army
assbot: jarhead - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1EPXalL )
cazalla: i enjoyed it but it's not exactly up there amongst my top fav cult films, that spot is claimed by a chinese ghost story and the young and dangerous series
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42442 @ 0.00033399 = 14.1752 BTC [+] {2}
adlai: soylent green!
cazalla: i'll have to check that one out
adlai: what really amazed/disappointed me was that NONE of the initial press coverage of 'soylent cream' mentioned 'soylent green'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18359 @ 0.00033561 = 6.1615 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6691 @ 0.00033864 = 2.2658 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00032873 = 5.9829 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26564 @ 0.00032873 = 8.7324 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: davout ayup, it's a thing.
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047115 << implies that text is by far fastest/most reliable channel to push bits into the brain
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 00:04:10; mircea_popescu: i can accept that SOME PEOPLE actually need their monitor to graphics. so make a gamestation. otherwise, we're fucking literate, we're not women, nothing beats text. ever.
mircea_popescu: it does.
jurov: i concede all the other attempts were feeble, but it may not be the ultimate case
mircea_popescu: if it weren't, we wouldn't CODE IN FUCKING TEXT
mircea_popescu: the day someone makes derp++ and starts iterating splines in a cube conditional, we can revisit this.
mircea_popescu: that said, feel free to draw out your love and other emotions, preferably directly on the object, with sticky matter.
jurov: that's not what i'm saying
jurov: i'm saying it looks like local optimum and when retina is fully reverse-engineered, better methods may be found
jurov: but everyone is so used to text, it will be hard
jurov: *local maximum
mircea_popescu: that somehow didn't emerge. so wait, reverse engineer the retina ? in what sense ? it's pretty well described as is
jurov: even if, the knowledge is not yet being used in practice to achieve better bitrates
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 105 @ 0.01643809 = 1.726 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: i think the bitrate approach misses the fundamental point here. you'll never beat the bitrate of "put out random pixels" with any bitmap approach.
mircea_popescu: this is where anything but text fails : no abstractive power.
mircea_popescu: a curve does not meaningfully stand for a set of curves like a word stands for a set of words.
jurov: there was the cad example, for curves that meaningfully stand for something
mircea_popescu: only because there's a textual context to generously support it.
mircea_popescu: you can't make a cad based kernel.
mircea_popescu: and if you can't do that, which is the absolute bare minimum of communication, you can't do anything meaningful.,
jurov: you don't tell me what i can do and don't. i already combine charts and text for production code
jurov: but i consider things like drakon editor a feeble attempt led by gut feeling of russina mathematicians
jurov: *russian
mircea_popescu: well actually, yeah, this is what i do :) my fucking thesis was on the limits of knowledge.
jurov: and woinder if they have known what we know of retina, how would it end up
mircea_popescu: an' i'm tellin' you, "visual" is not a complete language.
mircea_popescu: obviously it's an adjunct. everything can be an adjunct to speech.
dignork: jurov: afaik it was russian project where they tried to build complex software, like space c&c.
mircea_popescu: (In linguistics, an adjunct is an optional, or structurally dispensable, part of a sentence, clause, or phrase that, if removed or discarded, will not otherwise affect the remainder of the sentence.)
jurov: lol. you know deafies are considering whole speech as "dispensable"
jurov: signs are teh best!!1
mircea_popescu: signs are a reimplementation of speech.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying "my ms dos fixedsys display is graphical"
jurov: not for prelingval deaf, the "grammar" is purely visual
mircea_popescu: (i didn't mean speech as in the sound thereof)
jurov: and they hate the 1:1 attempts to translat speech into signs
mircea_popescu: eh, while i can appreciate the theoretical beauty of this "fuck you, i'm a dragon" approach, i do not credit it any. in fact, i think it only exists because the context is of the "fuck you, dragons" nature.
mircea_popescu: and i think the sort of idiots running around pretending "everything;'s something!11" are doing deaf people a major disfavor.
jurov: as compared to pretending "text is everything and forever will be"?
jurov: i have videos and podcasts as anyone, but this?
jurov: *hate
mircea_popescu: let's move it in a different field. you acquainted with the happenstance that iconoclastic civilisations prospered intellectually whereas iconocladic civilisations failed ?
jurov: yes
mircea_popescu: so do you explain it ?
kakobrekla: just lucky i guess.
jurov: egypt prospered thousands of yeats with *very* augmented text
jurov: *years
mircea_popescu: to be fair, i loved the "visual equalizer" in whatever program first played mp3s on 386s, single session. and obviously computers are for pronz.
jurov: the original discussion was that having X*Y fixed terminal is sufficient for every intellectual endeavor
jurov: that was what prompted me
mircea_popescu: more like, "x*y field terminal is great for cutting out timewasters"
jurov: i see
mircea_popescu: it forces people to think, and it simplifies the task of rooting out thoise who haven't. exactly the opposite service of a powerpoint presentation.
mircea_popescu: but that said, computers are still for pronz.
assbot: Sorting algorithms/Quicksort - Rosetta Code ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gnitd1 )
mircea_popescu: adlai you're not seriously proposing innovative pagination turns text into "graphical" do you ?
adlai proposes nothing, just dumps links in the logs
mircea_popescu: particularly bad example too, quicksort is like seven lines forty words.
adlai: i've not yet encountered something which worked better for me than text, but i'm not sold on it being the global maximum, short of sticking wires in the brain
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it forces people to think, and it simplifies the task of rooting out thoise who haven't << why not goose quill pen, then
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's a simple restriction on volume.
asciilifeform: i understand the appeal of 'this is the fucking army, you will paint the snow white until your fucking beg'
asciilifeform: but pray tell what were the 'timewasters' on a 'symbolics' box ?
mircea_popescu: well, more like, "if you can't say it in words you've not understood it"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i will use your own body to defeat you! how long did you spent with the box, and how much did you make in that time ?
asciilifeform: or for that matter mathematical symbols. modern mathematics -began- when they switched from naked words to the occasional piece of graphical 'garbage'
adlai: how about "if you can't present it in an original fashion, you've not understood it"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no dice. spent as little time as did with box because a good chunk of it is replicated in my modern 'emacs' - with which i've made just about everything in my adult life
mircea_popescu: no it didn't. modern mathematics began once they gave up the "mysticism" and "unexpressible" and "obvious" visual/intuitive nonsense and started putting everything in words.
adlai: granted, most presentations will be words
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well then that's all i got, because i've never spent considerable enough time with one to say anything cogent.
adlai: !s SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v
assbot: 0 results for 'SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v
asciilifeform: now all of this probably plays into mircea_popescu's thesis, because it turns out that the main use of graphical bitmaps in a 'symbolics' box or in my emacs is to better shovel text around
asciilifeform: adlai: it used to be a link to my site
asciilifeform: adlai: but the original google video was censored
asciilifeform: so we cached it.
mircea_popescu: wait, we do that ?!
assbot: Loper OS » Kalman Reti, the Last Symbolics Developer, Speaks of Lisp Machines. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQPvJ8 )
asciilifeform: kakobrekla offered that time
asciilifeform: because thing wasn't just some idiot talking, but a film of the machine in use
asciilifeform: yet another example of an item for which you absolutely need a moving picture
mircea_popescu: is it computer pronz ?
asciilifeform: sumthinglikethat
adlai: eh, the information in a video can be reliably conveyed through a transcript
asciilifeform: adlai: nope.
asciilifeform: not that one.
asciilifeform: fucking watch it
adlai: 2 minutes left
adlai: until then, i'm here
adlai remains silent, to leave some doubt
adlai: asciilifeform: what of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=858 ?
assbot: Loper OS » May 2012 Update ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQQhGd )
asciilifeform: adlai: shelved
adlai: that's nice, for the shelf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54100 @ 0.0003155 = 17.0686 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: adlai: because started falling into c shitpit
adlai: why not write it in lisp?
asciilifeform: adlai: because c os
asciilifeform: adlai: if i could choose just one small idea from my entire set of writings to survive, it would be that 'abstractions push up'
asciilifeform: as well as down
asciilifeform: the basic idea was known to the ancients as 'spoonfull of shit in a barrel of honey'
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had an article re: same.
adlai: in this case, the problem is that limitations push upwards
mircea_popescu: well... chicks not having two cunts certainly has made it so we don't have two penises, amirite ?
asciilifeform: adlai: if you're curious, i quit the emulator when i realized that even the text output absolutely trivial on a dataflow machine cannot be rendered in real time on a von neumann box (simply attach dependency graph to each rectangle of video buffer ram)
asciilifeform: to explain this in usable detail would take a while
asciilifeform: but perhaps the basic idea is clear
adlai: the basic idea is an obvious limitation of von neumann
asciilifeform: and one that breaks, in practice, the turing thesis
asciilifeform: some things -can't- be emulated usably
asciilifeform: (mathematically - in 'batch mode' - yes. usably in real time - no)
asciilifeform: now wondering if mircea_popescu will suggest bringing back batch processing
asciilifeform: because that was surely the ultimate 'derp zapper'
asciilifeform: batch programmers typically never even saw the machine...
mircea_popescu: well actually, under the "least bugs in code" criteria, the best programming was done 1100ad - 1700ad.
mircea_popescu: why stop at batch mode :D
asciilifeform: there we go.
asciilifeform: but going back to mathematical notation for a spell - let's write, e.g., a gnarly triple integral, in plain humanlang.
asciilifeform: what a bitch it'd be
asciilifeform: good abstractions are not only orthogonal and well-chosen, but -compact-
asciilifeform: brainspacewise
mircea_popescu: trivial to write integrals in plain language, what.
mircea_popescu: "integral"
asciilifeform: i said triple
asciilifeform: with varying params
mircea_popescu: i still dunno why you think the current notation is somehow nonverbal.
asciilifeform: it isn't nonverbal in the sense of what geometers liked to do
asciilifeform: but used 'weird symbols' not found on my keyboard, was the point
mircea_popescu: well that's your point, but notrly what was discussed. a simple mapping from that to "integral" and problem solved.
mircea_popescu: a symbol is a symbol.
asciilifeform: http://www.tutapoint.com/kcimages/TripleIntegraParaboloidPlate_.jpg << pulled out of the aether arbitrarily for folks who had too many years from school
asciilifeform: to illustrate what is being spoken of
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27660 @ 0.00032652 = 9.0315 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: simple mapping to the word brutally linearizes the expression
asciilifeform: forces you to demunge it in your head
asciilifeform: there is a reason why newton and leibniz both came up with new symbols for this example
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 500 @ 0.01588043 = 7.9402 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29540 @ 0.00034136 = 10.0838 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "triple integral for x = 4y**2 + 4z**2 and x=4"
asciilifeform: and what of the bounds ?
asciilifeform: glommed on separately somewhere ?
mircea_popescu: implicit neh ?
mircea_popescu: but it is!
asciilifeform: in this problem!
mircea_popescu: WHICH IS MY POINT :D
asciilifeform: whatddoihavetodo, scan a schoolbook! lol
mircea_popescu: exactly! see ?
asciilifeform: let's suppose they weren't implicit.
asciilifeform: easily most of real life
mircea_popescu: the very general case where it's easier to show me than to tell me reduces to pr0n.
mircea_popescu: (/me could have been deformed by years of insisting pets verbalize as part of their education)
asciilifeform: or simply to the fact that straight line of alphabet yes, can unambiguously describe everything. but it takes titanic space for a large class of concepts
asciilifeform: human languages as a class aren't even automatically unambiguous structurewise, and to hammer them into this shape results in the kind of verbiage that led people to invent 'squigglies' in the first place.
mircea_popescu: the more important point here was if you're somehow going to leverage the visual processor to think with, rather than whether it sometimes saves representative space for the linguistic processor to conveniently symbolize.
mircea_popescu: natural language "ambiguity" is a machine problem, not a human problem.
asciilifeform: when you teach the pets to reassemble kalash, will it be visually (tactile!) or verbally ?
jurov: there are cases linguistic processor may require storage of more than 7 items
adlai sees a surprising parallel between processing a long string of characters and the von neumann approach to executing a linear sequence instructions referring an array of memory...
jurov: which it the core of the problem
mircea_popescu: adlai not coincidental either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pronz!
mircea_popescu: there's no understanding involved in mashing the bits together. i also teach cooking by example only.
mircea_popescu: jurov 7 bits should be enough for everyone!
asciilifeform: i think he was speaking of the 7 levels of stack thing
jurov: yes.
asciilifeform: i've seen it trotted out as an argument that it is impossible to program in common lisp
jurov: and mnemonics is all about replacing the stuff eith rememberable *visual* interpretation
asciilifeform: because one encounters sometimes more than 7 levels of nesting
asciilifeform: which was a mega-l0l
jurov: i'm trying to get at that... you have to convert text into some internal representation in order to store more thasn 7 items
adlai: 7 is some average (mode?) though, rather than a neurological law.
jurov: so why it not possivble to feed these more directly to the brain?
asciilifeform: i promised yesterday to say why i quit the ibm green phosphour terminal; this was why
mircea_popescu: jurov you know this is nonsense. i store thousands of items.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: likely thinking of a different 'store'
jurov: but not as text!
jurov: i have seen you to mangle several names for example
asciilifeform: the original '7' thing was re: short-term memory and juggling arbitrary symbols as strings
mircea_popescu: jurov nothing is error free, not even non-ecc memory.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, my articles are generally preformed and i just tyoe them out.
adlai: like wagner
mircea_popescu: most of the "mind science" is pure gunk, ftr.
mircea_popescu: and it doesn't start with pharma, freud was closer to a fraud than anything. and all the way back.
jurov: ^ yes, that i meant by "feeble attempts" to present nontext information
asciilifeform: 'What’s the real difference between having a type signature in your short-term memory or prominently displayed in your second monitor? What’s the real difference between writing a comment in your mind or touch-typing it as fast as you create it? Just some speed. Just some time. And the more visible that type signature is, the faster you can type out that comment, the larger your ‘memory’ gets. And the larger your memor
asciilifeform: y is, the more intelligent/productive you can be.'
asciilifeform: ^ will sign under every word of that
mircea_popescu: minus the last sentence.
mircea_popescu: if memory made intelligence, computers'd be pretty smart.
asciilifeform: it's only true in the opposite
asciilifeform: artificially clamping your memory -> stupider
asciilifeform: like strapping weights to a runner
asciilifeform: removing bricks from on top another brick, will not make the latter a faster runner...
mircea_popescu: ok that's maybe your best analogy to date.
jurov: the human memory is content addressable. computers are very poor at that
asciilifeform: jurov: a von neumann limitation.
asciilifeform: jurov: think about how you can't 'ask' every machine word in your ram simultaneously whether it 'equals such-and-such'
asciilifeform: have to go through all $maxint of it and ask, ask, ask...
asciilifeform: because idiocy
asciilifeform: there is no physical/electrical reason why it can't worh the other way
assbot: CIA hacked iPhone, iPad and Mac security – Snowden documents reveal extent of privacy invasion ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQZNZN )
asciilifeform: !s TWINKLE
assbot: 11 results for 'TWINKLE' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=TWINKLE
jurov: yes, that. but it is fully parallel comparison really doable on 2D silicon?
nubbins`: "As well as targeting the iPhone and iPad directly, the CIA also claims to have developed a poisoned version of Xcode, the software development tool used by app developers to create the apps sold through Apple's hugely successful App Store. It is unclear how the CIA managed to get developers to use the poisoned version of Xcode, but it would have allowed the CIA install backdoors into any apps created using their version."
nubbins`: dat toolchain o.O
asciilifeform: compiler-infection is as old as time.
adlai: !s trusting trust
assbot: 13 results for 'trusting trust' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trusting+trust
assbot: Strawhorse: Attacking the MacOS and iOS Software Development Kit - The Intercept ... ( http://bit.ly/1KR1kis )
adlai: antecedent failure... for a moment, parsed that as [firstlook] cite thompson... but i guess they're just journalists
asciilifeform: lol re: usg spending $maxint to extract apple symmetric key from cpu
adlai: here's something that doesn't translate well to text: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/C-element-from-NANDs.svg
asciilifeform: where are the moles?
asciilifeform: adlai: a good chunk of the total world of engineering fits in this category
asciilifeform: know the saying 'picture is worth 1000 words' ? it isn't a joke
asciilifeform: and 1000 is, often, optimistic
adlai: eh, you can describe this picture in less than 1000
mircea_popescu: the only reason that picture is even meaningful to you is because you long ago digested its text
adlai: on the contrary
mircea_popescu: so now it's symbolized and you look at it and you figure hey, it's so much better than text
adlai: the only text which i needed was the filename
mircea_popescu: not unlike ruby programmer imagining "o wow, so much better than asm".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the reasons whereby ruby sucks have nothing to do with the representation
adlai would've had to use trial-and-error to figure out which gate was represented, if the filename hadn't specified it
mircea_popescu: otherwise, it translates to text quite perfectly well, and plainly : "if and only if". but this is familiar to people trained in humanities more than in cs i guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the c-gate !?!
asciilifeform suggests actually understanding what adlai linked to
mircea_popescu looks at gate again
asciilifeform: i regard c-gate as among the greatest inventions in 20th c. electronics
asciilifeform: (even though it is used virtually nowhere...)
adlai is trying to actually understand what loper-os links to...
mircea_popescu: "if not both"
asciilifeform: it lets you have asynchronous circuits without metastability problems
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the function of the 'extra' gates does not become clear unless you understand why extant cpus (which do not use muller's c-gate) need 'clocks' at all
asciilifeform: they have to wait for inputs to 'settle'
asciilifeform: because an ordinary logic gate can enter a 'metastable' wedge-state if it is given a 'pathological' input transition (i.e. you try to use the output before the inputs are stable)
mircea_popescu has been spending some time looking at this circuitry, understands why it backfeeds now.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 161 @ 0.0143529 = 2.3108 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: i'll note you'd have had a much more reliable response had you described rather than shown :)!!!
mircea_popescu: seeing how i'm not an electrical engineer, i'm prone to misinterpret. the boon of ignorance.
asciilifeform: but if didn't show, only explained why, the thing would have to be re-invented to be built
asciilifeform: not necessarily impossible - but who's to say when.
mircea_popescu: not our concern, now is it.
asciilifeform: my concern because life is short and i want to compute with c-gates.
mircea_popescu: and this is why i became a theoretical physicist
mircea_popescu: albeit briefly.
asciilifeform: wanted to see something physzed ?
mircea_popescu: no, simply did not give a shit.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, this IS a pretty beautiful thing huh ?
asciilifeform: sure is
asciilifeform: !s c-gate
assbot: 5 results for 'c-gate' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=c-gate
mircea_popescu: it actually can't ever be metastable can it.
asciilifeform: ^ iirc we did it a bit
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not sure if this is rigorously proven, but approximately yes
asciilifeform: but at any rate they do not end up wedged in practice (folks with $maxint have built otherwise conventional cpu without clock using c-gate, they don't wedge)
asciilifeform: exhibits other interesting properties.
asciilifeform: you cool it down, it speeds up
mircea_popescu: it would
asciilifeform: (no clock, so only propagation delays matter)
asciilifeform: but i seem to be the only one who (publicly) realized that it is the very thing for building dataflow comp.
asciilifeform: and was in fact the missing ingredient
mircea_popescu: i wonder if there;s a limit of how many you can plop together before you end up in some novel hell
asciilifeform: if never metastable, then no
asciilifeform: unless novel hell is of some higher-level mathematical variety
asciilifeform: rather than physical effect of individual gate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36268 @ 0.00034671 = 12.5745 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: but one can put together a few mil. of these, without any apparent daemonic possession of the machine, is what we experimentally have so far.
asciilifeform: somebody even sells a clockless 'arm'.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7682 @ 0.0003474 = 2.6687 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: (that, afaik, is the limit of what anyone with actual funding has dared)
asciilifeform: !s achronix
assbot: 0 results for 'achronix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=achronix
asciilifeform: or hmm, maybe that wasn't it
asciilifeform: !up stoya
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34000 @ 0.00033701 = 11.4583 BTC [-]
assbot: My Way into Clojure: Building a Card Game with Om - Part 1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mq5gEq )
asciilifeform: '...we should start with cleaner hardware, then write a cleaner replacement for the JVM (same cross-platform capabilities!?, same performance optimisations!?), as well as all its libraries... we'd be busy at least for another decade and required backing from several large companies.'
asciilifeform wrote a flame many years ago and the 'butthurt' over it never seems to abate
asciilifeform: and there's something palpably poisonous about that page
asciilifeform: not sure what the word for it is
asciilifeform: incidentally, my explanation at 14:39:46 is a bit broken but i'll leave it as exercise for the reader.
PeterL: asciilifeform:but going back to mathematical notation for a spell - let's write, e.g., a gnarly triple integral, in plain humanlang. << When writing such an integral, I use words in my head as I put down the symbols (eg. integral from 0 to 2pi integral from 0 to 1 integral from 4r^2 to 4 of xdxrdrd(theta) )
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 92.9005122 BTC. Current weight: 63,712.
jurov: http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer?ModPagespeed=noscript asciilifeform, good addition to cardano, i guess :D
assbot: USB Killer ... ( http://bit.ly/1ExDAMz )
jurov: "windows detected? zap it"
assbot: Ringo – The palm size robot with real personality! by Plum Geek — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1B0MlaK )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49314 @ 0.00032918 = 16.2332 BTC [-]
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1wpUaeG )
jurov: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 296.55, Best ask: 296.71, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 296.75, 24 hour volume: 83665.82771177, 24 hour low: 284.39, 24 hour high: 303.96, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15386 @ 0.00033681 = 5.1822 BTC [+]
assbot: Switch-pitcher placed on path early by dad | MLB.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1KS1d6h )
BingoBoingo: !up HeySteve
thestringpuller is excited for baseball season. Anyone else?
assbot: Subspace — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1KS1qXa )
HeySteve: not sure how it improves over bitmessage
adlai hasn't, beyond knowing that they claim to not require everybody to store everything (which bitmessage requires)
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
thestringpuller: ascii_field is with us live from the streets
ascii_field: 'subspace' >> 'Unfortunately, downloading all messages scales very poorly. In Subspace, we use a filtering technique that allows us to mix our messages with a user-defined subset of the total message space, reducing your bandwidth consumption while preserving your privacy.' >> shitgnomism
adlai: the catcher in the _field
ascii_field: 'let's do this thing except we'll do it without actually doing it because actually doing it is omghardm4thish4rd and weloveruby'
ascii_field throws up a little just writing this
ascii_field: in other news, apparently apple released a portable machine that not only has slower cpu clock than the typical such box 5 yrs. ago - but cannot charge and use an external peripheral at the same time!
ascii_field: literally. there is exactly one jack
thestringpuller: ascii_field and danielpbarron: generals of the pogo army
kakobrekla: i heard the 100 dorra device you plug into it can indeed charge at same time as you use usb or whatever it is
thestringpuller: "I’m actually, right now, working on just getting consensus among the five, what I call, core developers — the five developers who have push access to the git code. I think I’m getting close to convincing them that we have a plan that will work. I’m probably going to have to write some more code . . . I think we have a year to eighteen months. I would love the next release of bitcoin — the next major release, which wi
ascii_field: the turdmeisters replacing the genuine blockchain download process with an 'equivalent' one that 'omg111itfinallyscales!!11' - was inevitable
ascii_field: this is their most beloved gambit
ascii_field: take something that works but doesn't 'democratize' enough, or can be spun as such, and replace it with sham 'equivalent'
assbot: Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter Preview - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1KS4wdM )
assbot: Multiple Teams Creating Bitcoin-based Prediction Markets | Inside Bitcoins | Bitcoin news | Price | Bitcoin Conferences ... ( http://bit.ly/1AdIwzT )
assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
adlai: thestringpuller: you're missing the best part of the talk: "A tenth of a Bitcoin for anyone who takes the livestream and puts a pope hat on me during the stream. That would be awesome." http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/mit-bitcoin-expo-2015/keynote-gavin-andresen/
assbot: keynote-gavin-andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1AdIMPc )
kakobrekla: ascii_field not missing, 'betmoose' is right there, in the first comment.
ascii_field: bitbet
ascii_field: not that it 'needs' to be in there
ascii_field: down in the sewer
kakobrekla: bb css is not up to par.
kakobrekla: i always sucked at that.
ascii_field: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/us/secede-republic-claims-texas-never-joined-us.html << idiots who still imagine that a legalistic pill against usg exists. as described in mircea_popescu's 'sovereign citizens' article.
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1wpUaeG )
adlai: "fight fire with fire" breaks down when The Law is above itself
ascii_field: 'rule of law' is fundamentally a scam
ascii_field: always was.
ascii_field: the only thing statal (vs tribal) law ever was, is a '3 ring binder' affair to simplify peasant-herding
ascii_field: so you (crown) don't have to personally sit and review every idiot land dispute, stray ox, etc
ascii_field: but can delegate
ascii_field: but the (very modern!) notion that the state would or could tie its own hands - lunacy.
ascii_field: !s rule of law
assbot: 31 results for 'rule of law' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rule+of+law
jurov: "since french revolution" is "very modern" ?
jurov: and some such idea can be discerned in Roman Republic, too
PeterL: ascii_field: there is something to be said for making it hard to change laws, if changing the law is too easy then nobody will be able to keep track of it
kakobrekla: do you keep track of it now?
PeterL: big changes get put in the news, usually
kakobrekla: so thats a no
PeterL: right, I am not saying the current system is good
kakobrekla: so if its not good why want to change it slowly
PeterL: well, once you get a good system, then make it change slowly
kakobrekla: ok grandpa.
PeterL: bleh, maybe I just have no idea what I am talking about
thestringpuller: ;;later tell danielpbarron re: hosting images, direct that inuiry to BingoBoingo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> in other news, apparently apple released a portable machine that not only has slower cpu clock than the typical such box 5 yrs. ago - but cannot charge and use an external peripheral at the same time! << they want you to buy a thing to make more holes
ben_vulpes: still
ben_vulpes: hyuuuuu
cazalla: kakobrekla: ascii_field not missing, 'betmoose' is right there, in the first comment. <<< might be the funniest thing i've read for a while
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00030968 = 4.7381 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up excelor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11688 @ 0.00030762 = 3.5955 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.0003006 = 9.2284 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Alleged USMS Auction Winner Leaves Eldritch Message | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHfdsW )
cazalla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu lucy, u got some 'splain' to do!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
cazalla: how interesting is that eh
thestringpuller: a mircea_popescu appears
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 294.75, Best ask: 295.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 295.04, 24 hour volume: 67374.24839178, 24 hour low: 287.91, 24 hour high: 303.96, 24 hour vwap: None
mircea_popescu: wtf is this no vwap srsly.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 291.98, vol: 13364.07282246 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 289.92, vol: 14891.63951 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 294.99, vol: 67374.24839178 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 293.5286, vol: 199564.72520000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 295.0, vol: 28.37516667 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 293.6175, vol: 257.91908055 | Volume-weighted last average: 293.610134295
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1950 / 295
gribble: 6.61016949153
assbot: The conference, third edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHiI2F )
assbot: Various kinds of stickiness pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHiMPR )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00030333 = 5.0049 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: (real dooglus btw)
mircea_popescu: !up dooglus
thestringpuller: ah so mr. davout is going to conference
mircea_popescu: $conference
thestringpuller: that bot is down
mircea_popescu: btw - only a few days left, hurry up in case the btc collapses.
ben_vulpes: bit rottttt
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform:!up stoya <omfg no fucking wai.
mircea_popescu: stoya was here ?!
davout: mircea_popescu: ty for the quote
davout: however, it has more than 8 decimal places
davout: and if we're doing signatures it's probably the payment address that needs to be signed along with the amount
mircea_popescu: davout it's a running joke with jurov and others that watch the mpex statements :)
mircea_popescu: davout notrly, because i may have to verify people later, in person, whereas you won't have to verify payments later in a different venue.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: it's not funny. this is srs bsns.
mircea_popescu: that's what makes it funny.
thestringpuller: like nubbins` joking about dufflebag of cocaine in trunk while we cross canadian border
thestringpuller: sure we end up in jail, but it was funny!
BingoBoingo: !up _FeltPen
thestringpuller: i like how plane ticket is more expensive than VIP ticket
thestringpuller: like wtf airlines
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: how much was it from up there in the mountains?
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: who knows which stoya
ascii_field: it didn't talk..
ascii_field: i like how plane ticket is more expensive than VIP ticket << where'ya flying from
ascii_field: greenland ?
mircea_popescu would rather see stoya here than paul graham.
ascii_field: only if actual stoya
mircea_popescu: same for pg :)
davout: mircea_popescu: i noticed the decimals thing on mike_c's quote as well :)
davout: as for the signature, how do i verify your wordpress wasn't haxxored?
ascii_field: possibly we do a 'key party' this time ?
davout: ascii_field: totally
davout: with mandatory s.nsa collider std check
ascii_field: incidentally, if someone wants to generate a fatter key, now would probably be a good time
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yep, we are.
mircea_popescu: davout for one, it's the sameaddress everyone else paid to
mircea_popescu: the beauty of reusing addresses.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field has an excellent point : this is a fine time to make new keys / reorganize the keyplan, make a master key which then signs other keys as you need etc.
davout: mebbe the haxxorer also changed other addresses on the same page, signing can't really hurt can it
mircea_popescu: also i'm very well connected into the old style strong set, so there is that.
mircea_popescu: davout it can't hurt but i'm about to hop in a car. will make a deed when im back later
mircea_popescu: speaking of which yo trinque ! old deeds ? new display style ?
davout: mircea_popescu: no worries, just poking at you
mircea_popescu: (also what i meant was, you can check thje address see payments received)
davout: which dates and amounts i crosscheck against... teh webpage :p
thestringpuller: davout: how do I get a French passport?
ascii_field: lol 'meee tooo'
davout: thestringpuller: marry a french chick i guess
ascii_field: want cheaper!
thestringpuller: wait that works?
davout: thestringpuller: why do you want a communist nation's passport anyway?
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeh, in sqlite it's all still broken into parts; I might be able to hax that tonight
ascii_field: davout: because anything other than usa
ascii_field: even nork
thestringpuller: davout: although France is communist, they got style
thestringpuller: haven't you heard Niggas In Paris?!?
davout: haha what about them?
davout: (and technically you could also marry a french dude!)
mircea_popescu: what french dude'd have him ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, im off! tell all the stoyas.
davout: i presume anchor kids could also work
davout: or just come, hang around naked on a beach, pretend you're amnesiac
ascii_field: davout: whatcha gonna suggest next, the 'foreign legion', lol
davout: ascii_field: hah! that too
davout: go marry a french legionnaire
_FeltPen: excellent. qntra does good work, that site is how I discovered this channel. fwiw.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: mega-lol!
ascii_field: but did you really expect microshit to patch without opening a new orifice? because that'd be a first.
ascii_field: in fact (not big secret!) professional 0day-diggers regard microshit's patches as a golden source of goodies
ascii_field: and occupy much of their time reversing them
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Not at all, but it is interesting how the ghost of HP is trying to do anything it can to say "Butt weur gud guiz, buy from us"
BingoBoingo: _FeltPen: cool
thestringpuller: Ballmer was the Nero of MicroPoo
danielpbarron: i had to literally de-"bug" .. :/
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: !up airgapped
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: height=268264 vs height=204752
assbot: Notice to those Commenting on the Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework | ATF ... ( http://bit.ly/18yUUmp )
BingoBoingo: !up stunna
BingoBoingo: That's a good one
adlai: not his fault, he got framed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00032355 = 8.7035 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: TIL danielpbarron is mircea_popescu
cazalla: and here i thought it was nubbins or perhaps even hanbot
danielpbarron: i guess it's the beard or something
jurov: can't he be everyone?
danielpbarron: new tshirt slogan for nubbins "I AM MP"
assbot: Chemistry Incident in Manchester. In the Pipeline: ... ( http://bit.ly/1b0JQQF )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00032424 = 18.8383 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: reprieve << ahaha lol no. it's the usual 'we'll slip it up your arse later when brouhaha is over and nobody's paying attention' usg business.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They will likely try that yes. It's just very expensive politically to anger the gun lobby in this way.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ratchet still cranks.
asciilifeform: when has usg legalized anything formerly forbidden ?
asciilifeform: that'd be like a lion un-eating a gazelle
BingoBoingo: Well, there was that one time they listened to women on booze and retracted, but it was an earlier time.
cazalla: danielpbarron, it could be the beard, i'd wager there is a higher ratio of men with beards than not in #b-a and higher ratio of men with bikini wax at /r/bitcoin
asciilifeform: only retracted when found a new use for the armed thugs
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Still a lot of blame for this goes to the fuckers who made AR-style pistols. Some feasibe civilian arms in the US are simply not made due to the legal/regulatory cascade which would follow. (ex. 'smart' guns)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc 'smart' in the sense of electrical detonation is explicitly forbidden
asciilifeform: on account of being a software patch away from full auto
asciilifeform: and this apparently is a great irritant to many marksmanship types who would much like electrical striker for a few percent decrease in mechanical jitter
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That, but also 'smart' in the sense of authenticates user is defacto forbiden because of New Jersey law.
asciilifeform: the one that makes it mandatory if ever becomes available on the market ?
BingoBoingo: That one indeed
asciilifeform: still not sure how anything the size of a 1990s laptop can be called a 'pistol' with a straight face
asciilifeform: (in usa - anything that has only one hilt it being roughly 90 degree to the barrel, iirc, is legally 'pistol')
asciilifeform: ianal, but phun phact (tm):
asciilifeform: my understanding is that in usa, war machines that do not use pyrotechnic effects are not considered 'arms' and are not regulated at the national level
asciilifeform: e.g., arbalest, laser, electron beam weapon, etc.
asciilifeform: there are prohibitions on nukes (lol), poisons, and biowar - but that's, iirc, it.
asciilifeform: not that appropriate text couldn't be crapped into the penal code overnight if lizardhitler wished it, mind you
asciilifeform: but still entertaining, this omission.
BingoBoingo: There's state level prohibitions on top of things. In any number civilian taser/stun gun ownership is banned
asciilifeform: too 'humane' ?
jurov once had some stray thoughts about nanotubes-reinforced arbalest
trinque: asciilifeform: fascinating; all I can find re: lasers is labling requirements, etc
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So it seems
asciilifeform: trinque: i have a 'class 4' laser right in this room
BingoBoingo: trinque: With sufficiently good batteries laser, magnetic rail, and other exotica might finally be banned.
asciilifeform: trinque: if it were 10,000 times larger, would still be 'class 4'.
BingoBoingo: At the moment I imagine there is no explict ban because USG wants to see what Boeing might buy for them off of a sufficiently advanced crackpot while it is still safe to assume such things are minimally portable.
trinque: BingoBoingo: eh probably just hasn't been a problem yet
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: usg-sponsored ($maxint) laser shenanigans traditionally involve chemical (that is, single-shot) machines
trinque: there's something there too about being able to outwit the regulators by virtue of them not having the imagination to conceive the necessary ban
asciilifeform: loaded like cannon
asciilifeform: trinque: it isn't like one could cut through a phalanx of usg stormtroopers and stay legally in the clear simply because the machine is not banned per se
trinque: though I think that tends over time towards ever vaguer "regulations" which amount to "we can stop you for doing anything we deem 'dangerous'"
trinque: asciilifeform: heh! no, certainly not
asciilifeform: usg could and did put down rebellion even in the era when arbitrary hardware was permitted to whoever could afford it
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048068 <<< absolutely, it's also loads of fun
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 00:40:05; trinque: there's something there too about being able to outwit the regulators by virtue of them not having the imagination to conceive the necessary ban
jurov: carbon nanotubes can provide 10 times greater force than steel... that would make for quite an arbalest :>
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, but if sufficiently crazy/monied/intelligent crackpot produces solid state laser pistol with more than anti vehicle firings per charge that isn't too portable they would likely consider it a purchase
jurov: don't see how'd ban that
jurov: laz0rs can be bannet more easily than that
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: good physical reasons why you would not want to be standing even behind such a thing, much less holding it, when fired
jurov: *banned
asciilifeform: what will almost certainly be usg-banned quite soon - and banned the way chemistry as a class was, rather than as specific types of small arm were - is flying machines
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Of course, but maybe it might make sense USG-ified on a boat
asciilifeform: eventually a 'multicopter' (perhaps usg provocateur-piloted) will be used in some loud, public vandalism (graffiti of $landmark or wtf) and it'll be 'reichstag fire'
BingoBoingo: Ah, you mean like that time Uhaul rented a truck from their yellow competitor to sully that brand
BingoBoingo: The oklahoma scam
asciilifeform: aha lol
BingoBoingo: At one point in Civ II I edited the files to add the yellow truck as a unit type
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25476 @ 0.00032741 = 8.3411 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: incidentally, to continue an earlier thread with mircea_popescu et al re: 'jungle bullet' - has anyone ever attempted to militarize the old familiar 'hydrogen cannon' ?
asciilifeform: where the propellant is H and O produced via electrolysis for each shot
asciilifeform: (and ignited, of course, via electrical spark)
assbot: File:45mm CLGG figure 1.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1C5lt0g )
asciilifeform: not quite
asciilifeform: 'light gas gun' is its own animal, where a gas where speed of sound is faster than in air is used as a 'piston'
asciilifeform: typically used in experimental physics, rather than war, because it is rather fussy
asciilifeform: hmm seems like linked item does use for propellant as well..
BingoBoingo: It does, just combusted
BingoBoingo: next step from that is "scram cannon"
asciilifeform: at any rate this is a golden toilet
asciilifeform: but there is no particular reason why the principle cannot be applied to a man-portable small arm
BingoBoingo: tooling in the big challenge it seems. requires a finer grit than bastard file offers
asciilifeform: fundamentally less precision metalwork needed here
asciilifeform: and with correctly-shaped projectile, smooth barrel would suffice
asciilifeform: potentially bullet itself could even be molded during the process of firing
asciilifeform: (explosion-forming of vaguely correct quantity of $material)
BingoBoingo: These still require something of a piston system though?
asciilifeform: the gas is the piston
BingoBoingo: Interesting
jurov: get a pipe, seal one one side but connect it to electrolyzer, jam bullet into other side,
asciilifeform: jurov: that's the basic idea, yes
jurov: geerate gases, fire...oh need spark plug, too
BingoBoingo: AH, space musket
asciilifeform: need to have some notion of stoichiometry and strength of materials to avoid creating self-grenade instead of musket
asciilifeform: but again this is an ancient idea, not mine.
asciilifeform: it is interesting to remember that, at a certain velocity, it no longer really matters what a bullet is made of
asciilifeform: one could literally pierce a tank with a compressed turd
asciilifeform: -if- it could be made to travel fast enough.
asciilifeform: (think about micrometeorites, etc. and occasionally there is a cosmic ray travelling with the energy of a well-thrown baseball.)
BingoBoingo: But a better throw baseball isn't always a faster baseball.
BingoBoingo: (baseballs have effective target zone too)
jurov: lol.. someday maybe we learn how to generate cosmic rays with scotch tape
assbot: kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source tree ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeBCub )
cazalla: for any baldur's gate lovers.. pillars of eternity out in a few weeks, looks interesting http://youtu.be/roK1wzOLT-k?t=15m16s
assbot: Pillars of Eternity Gameplay 03/07/15 Pax East - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeBN8M )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21637 @ 0.0003348 = 7.2441 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20402 @ 0.00033535 = 6.8418 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: 'If however, anyone feels personally abused, threatened, or otherwise uncomfortable due to this process, that is not acceptable. If so, please contact the Linux Foundation's Technical Advisory Board at...' << linus begins to totter ?!!?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:49:56; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if you were planning to kill someone, would you helpfully tell him first ? << that's not the point. in a normal society, the threat is a fundamental tool to hierarchy building.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:51:36; mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.
BingoBoingo: It might be the case linus wavers
assbot: On Firing Open Source Community Members - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeDnrl )
assbot: ClubOrlov: Chaos: Practice and Applications ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeDWBe )
asciilifeform: ^ worth reading mainly for the slipping car anecdote
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.0003333 = 8.4325 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047818 << actually this is a remarkably good piece on the textual merits.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 14:59:37; asciilifeform: http://www.railslove.com/stories/my-way-into-clojure-building-a-card-game-with-om-part-1#Other_Misgivings << mega-l0l (from server logs)
mircea_popescu: jurov kukuruku is a great name. used to be this shitty wafer when i was a kid, most ridiculous advertisements.
asciilifeform: кукареку
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still fucking hate that piece. the sheer mendacity of rich hickey in saying 'simplicity matters' while crapping all over lisp concept
asciilifeform: fucker knows what he's doing. not ignorant.
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do4lkZ )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but formally, as far as writing is concerned, as far as the art of blogging is concerned, it's a good piece.
mircea_popescu: i can't be arsed to wade into the merits.
asciilifeform: i suppose it is 'good' in the sense in which the products of herr goebbels were.
mircea_popescu: which they definitely were. the russians copied liberally but never equalled
asciilifeform: whole world copied.
mircea_popescu: that's more recent
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16572 @ 0.0003429 = 5.6825 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: I mean the Germans did win the propaganda war.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55200 @ 0.00032968 = 18.1983 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell gavinandresen http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047857 << check it out, the shithead lies about imaginary consensus in december, then "is working" on building the consensus he lied about having, in march. get lost, fucksticks. your gig is up.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 18:05:42; thestringpuller: "I’m actually, right now, working on just getting consensus among the five, what I call, core developers — the five developers who have push access to the git code. I think I’m getting close to convincing them that we have a plan that will work. I’m probably going to have to write some more code . . . I think we have a year to eighteen months. I would love the next release of bitcoin — the
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: "i'm going to pretend like if i find five people that can be bribed, scared or fooled then that's all that was needed to begin with. just, the usg is so ridiculous, toothless and impotent I CANT EVEN SAY WHO THE FUCK THE FIVE WILL BE. hopefully we even find five idiots, or else... whatever, three's enough. one's me, one's me dressed as satoshi, one's me in my wife's panties. win!"
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3VFJHE9.txt )
mod6: lol
asciilifeform: usg assets don't surrender, they keep doing their thing until the stool is kicked and the rope goes taught. or how did it go.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047858 << that part was inevitable. what was evitable, and usually is avoided, but couldn't be and consequently wasn't here is - the whole thing critically failing and in the process exposing them, their methods and the whole farm to public ridicule.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 18:08:18; ascii_field: the turdmeisters replacing the genuine blockchain download process with an 'equivalent' one that 'omg111itfinallyscales!!11' - was inevitable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the expression is, lolcow.
mircea_popescu: an internet retard who simply can not stop providing the lolz.
mircea_popescu: so people just milk it and milk it and milk it.
asciilifeform: but they did replace it (with the headers-only crap) and even a buncha morons are running the thing
mircea_popescu: a buncha morons are running ripple, what's your point ?
mircea_popescu: a buncha morons actually believe the song and dance about "ethereum investment"
mircea_popescu: a buncha morons were all over "neo bee revolution" last spring.
mircea_popescu: now if only morons mattered.
asciilifeform: point isn't that gavin&co are 'winning', but that the absence of said winning is not driven home to them
mircea_popescu: yeah, right.
mircea_popescu: which is why he's "building consensus", and which is why he's carefully waiting for my lunch breaks. because it's not driven home.
asciilifeform: they're still alive, well-fed, and polluting the sky
mircea_popescu: it's home alright. he sleeps with it in bed.
mircea_popescu: everyone's well fed, including the bums.
mircea_popescu: notacriteria.jpg
mircea_popescu: now if ben_vulpes an' mod6 get this show off the ground, it'll be reheheheally fascinating in short order.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047863 << the only one that solved the problem the usg backed "teams" are "working towards" i would presume without reading.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 18:13:45; ascii_field: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/multiple-teams-creating-bitcoin-based-prediction-markets/30429 << notice what site is missing from this article
mircea_popescu: it's ok, they've been doing this for years nao.
asciilifeform: 'parallel world where none of it happened' (tm)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047869 << no one knows kakobrekla s dry wit like i do hehehe
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 18:16:24; kakobrekla: ascii_field not missing, 'betmoose' is right there, in the first comment.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30423 @ 0.00032353 = 9.8428 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: anyway. so teh usg-vc-turdatron is "building prediction markets" and usgavin is "building consensus" among the "core developers" of a meanwhile obsoleted branch of bitcoin core.
mircea_popescu: welcome to late 2012 early 2013, i imagine a btc/usd run-up is coming ?
asciilifeform: we still need a goxoinbase ehem.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 291.28, vol: 12500.04342666 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 288.504, vol: 15536.49063 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 293.98, vol: 65572.1613873 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 292.227045, vol: 223377.47330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 289.0, vol: 29.73914519 | Volume-weighted last average: 292.369523406
BingoBoingo: ^ mircea_popescu Looks likely
BingoBoingo: most stagnant low in years + recent large scam deaths === bull run impending
asciilifeform: '2015-03-10 20:02:29One or More Panels Have Entered Into a Pick And Place Machine'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23566 @ 0.00031952 = 7.5298 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: the 200ish wallow is reminiscent (to me) of the $2 wallow
mircea_popescu: was a great fun time.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 00:12:42; cazalla: TIL danielpbarron is mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048036 << don't go there. marihuana is coming legal.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 00:25:57; asciilifeform: when has usg legalized anything formerly forbidden ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they'd have to backpedal on 50 yrs. of forced treaties with most of the planet
asciilifeform: for full-bore legal
mircea_popescu: it's now going into senate. most states are going off the ganja bust.
asciilifeform: rather than idiot contradictory crap like the netherlands
asciilifeform: (where use is legal but production & shipment is prosecuted)
mircea_popescu: no current western state is capable of noncontradictory, meaningful legislation
asciilifeform: wasn't speaking, note, of whether usians will smoke weed mostly without harassment (they already have for years) - but of whether fed usg specifically will let go of the bludgeon
mircea_popescu: strictly because of their sovereignity problem
assbot: /hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash core 0.10 was released feb 16 & is now 2nd largest "user agent" (node) on network. https://t.co/MUpvRFk2pP http://t.co/tUExE2e8gF
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> now if ben_vulpes an' mod6 get this show off the ground, it'll be reheheheally fascinating in short order. << just wrapping up the regression of the static binary: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ny9m6Q3R and after this, we just need to bundle up this thing and sign patches & tar ball. gettin close!
mircea_popescu: mod6 sweet.
danielpbarron: and because assbot and twitter don't get along: "@danielpbarron you are Mircea Popsecu. creator of #bitcoin-asssets, kicked of twitter for violating TOS due to threat on @aantonop"
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 00:34:58; asciilifeform: my understanding is that in usa, war machines that do not use pyrotechnic effects are not considered 'arms' and are not regulated at the national level
mircea_popescu: nasty thing, too. could definitely cut down a small amr.y
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lol mircea popsicle.
mircea_popescu: anyway, kakobrekla created bitcoin-assets.
asciilifeform: laugh or not, bolt will go straight through 'kevlar', 'spektra', etc. anything without solid plates.
mircea_popescu: not fast enough for rayon to do anything. powerfdul enough to cut through leather, wood etc
asciilifeform: cuts the fibers individually (they are designed to contain blunt impact, just as silk - the first ballistic vest material - did)
asciilifeform: archduke ferdinand, famously, wore one ^
asciilifeform: silk vest, that is
asciilifeform: not arbalest
BingoBoingo: Ah, cazalla's pice looms just under the threshold for srs reddit xposture https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ylqkl/alleged_usms_auction_winner_leaves_eldritch/
assbot: Alleged USMS Auction Winner Leaves Eldritch Message : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeI848 )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: As did Doc Holliday and other Western gunfighters who lived more than a few weeks into their careers
mircea_popescu: i thought holliday just had tb.
mircea_popescu: he also had sv ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @ 0.00031846 = 17.1968 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: I could have sworn he had one
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048076 << fwik it's the crankers strength that limits it, not the materials.
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 00:42:04; jurov: carbon nanotubes can provide 10 times greater force than steel... that would make for quite an arbalest :>
BingoBoingo: holliday had tb, twas what sent him to the dry west
mircea_popescu: bows are closer, but even there...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: materials. strength can be levered (literally) by gearing
asciilifeform: but speed of bolt will not exceed speed of sound in the spring
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
mircea_popescu: but levering by gearing slows down the operation.
mircea_popescu: well it's a problem.
asciilifeform: still generally faster than musketry.
mircea_popescu: IF you don't leverage the strength to the point where it isn't :L)
BingoBoingo: Wind the gears mechanically
mircea_popescu: that point is way below what steel can carry.
mircea_popescu: bows are almost limited by materials, but not really, still mostly the archer. crossbows however, it's all the shooter.
asciilifeform: at any rate, in the age of the arbalest the beryllium-copper spring did not exist. wood was the spring.
asciilifeform: and was, iirc, pushed to more or less the limit
mircea_popescu: nah, steel was still the spring./
mircea_popescu: steel was used for the x part in the xbow before it was abundant enough to go into swords.
BingoBoingo: Well, since the 1800's Krupp has done a lot to improve steel strengths and specializations...
asciilifeform: http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_dec04.htm << forensic archaeology, built, tested
assbot: Letter: December 2004 ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeITdp )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00034304 = 8.0614 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I'll just throw out again that less-wrong's propaganda Harry Potter dicided to solve the Voldemort thing by decapitating everyone with carbon nanofiber tightened by magic.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43950 @ 0.00034304 = 15.0766 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048128 << i don't understand this open ended "we will work toi resolve your problems" approach.
mircea_popescu: the only thing it does is it encourages "problems" being dreamed up by people who otherwise aren't worth the time of day.
mircea_popescu: if you don't know how to apply pressure, don't have an avenue to voice your concerns, that means that your concerns aren't worth shit. go die or whatever it is losers do.
BingoBoingo: Maybe Linus's ace in the whole just might be counting "STFU" as a resolution, but my hope for that is dim
asciilifeform: linus totters.
asciilifeform: eventually - falls.
mircea_popescu: everything fails eventually. guy's been doing it for what, 20 years ?
mircea_popescu: i don't personally expect anything further from linux. in this sense, he's retired already.
asciilifeform: 'single point of failure' and enemy knows it.
mircea_popescu: single point of failure of a meanwhile obsolete position, but hey. enemy loves to pat himself on the back over having "Conquered" the strongpoints of yesteryear, meanwhile abandoned.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: You want a press credential, yes?
BingoBoingo: ;;google ULC press credential
gribble: Press Pass & Parking Placard | Universal Life Church Monastery: <http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/presspassparkingplacard-p-193.html>; Wallet Sized Press Pass - Universal Life Church: <http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/walletsizedpresspass-p-277.html>; Legal ID & Badges - Universal Life Church Store: <http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/-c-38.html>
BingoBoingo: It's what I use
thestringpuller: I iz /w da dly qnt
mircea_popescu: lol get a hat.
BingoBoingo: I wonder if this is the late Andreas of the house of derp http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-16766
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeK5xw )
asciilifeform: point re: herr torvalds was, that a healthy culture doesn't consist of a corral of helpless pets and one wizard waving iron staff standing on a bridge doing the 'thou shall not pass' thing
cazalla: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048025 << wait wut ?! <<< reference to some guy you might know and have written about before named tim swanson who thought danielpbarron was you, occurred on twitter
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 00:12:42; cazalla: TIL danielpbarron is mircea_popescu
cazalla: ah nevermind, in the logs..
danielpbarron: stoya was here ?! << is this the stoya you were thinking of? -> https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/575129423097147392
assbot: Do I know anyone who knows a bitcoin expert?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wtf is the point of the faux 'press' card ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's issued by a (actual) church publication. What n00b would deny it?
asciilifeform at one point had an entirely genuine card from $censored_media_conglomerate and never found any good 'social engineering' use for it
asciilifeform was not involved in broadcast chumpatronics in any way, even remotely, but ended up having paycheques issued by one such thing by sheer accident
BingoBoingo: There's always opportunities
asciilifeform: where, exactly, does one get in by virtue of having such a thing, that you would wish to go ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In plaintext best to attribute things to the imagination. Various other credentials that legitimate religious organization offers work well for prisons, nursing homes, other institutions....
asciilifeform: any idiot can print a card.
asciilifeform: not wunderwaffen.
asciilifeform: incidentally, dye-sub card printers are plentiful on 'ebay' and the like.
BingoBoingo: Sure any idiot can print a card, but special is the third pary that will keep a record of having issued such a card and affording it officialdom.
asciilifeform: creating such an 'organization' is basic spamatronics-101.
asciilifeform: using the same 'church' as 100,000 other would-be spamatronicists - fail.
asciilifeform: incidentally, if you want a mailing address inside an actual, historically-mapped church - it is trivial to arrange.
asciilifeform: many such properties in u.s. cities are hard up for cash and will rent as much as half the premises to random folks
BingoBoingo: Of course
asciilifeform: i was briefly a member of a kind of electronics club that met in a huge old church
asciilifeform: complete with massive circa-1920s boilers that didn't work
BingoBoingo: In USia there is a golden middle of Churches, generally for resource use you want an installation which is part of a larger mainline organization which happens to be helmed by a person favorable to yourself.
asciilifeform: caveat is that the ancient truce whereby usg would not openly fuck with a church - no longer really holds
BingoBoingo: Anything too new or independent tends to attract investigations for any number of reasons.
BingoBoingo: One good indicator though is people of the cloth who go for this sort of chumpatron are too be avoided http://www.ultimatebunker.com/wp-content/uploads/9000-sq-ft-underground-bunker.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27203 @ 0.00034153 = 9.2906 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: 'citadel' ?
asciilifeform: or wtf is that honeypot
BingoBoingo: The prefab end times bunker honeypot
asciilifeform: lol re: footprint of 'grow room' garden pots
asciilifeform: vs. bed count
asciilifeform: one inevitably concludes that it grows only ganja for the occupants
BingoBoingo: Although in that example with their allocation of floor space I like how they in a historically justified manner unspokenly conceed the "dental Room" to all manner of surgery
BingoBoingo: 2/3rd the square footage adds shooting range and "quarantine" room http://www.ultimatebunker.com/wp-content/uploads/6000-sq-ft-underground-bunker.jpg
mircea_popescu: cazalla oh lol.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mega-idiocy
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It really is.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yes, actually!
mircea_popescu: !s stoya
assbot: 32 results for 'stoya' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stoya
mircea_popescu: hey, tell her i'm a fan, see if she'll do http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/
assbot: I'll pay for your tits pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnVtLn )
mircea_popescu: she can have dbl bitcents because she's famous.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Especially lulzy since the already built nike garages go for ~$75k where one would need only hang drywall
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron and actually, since im in a great mood : you get 100 bucks worth of bitcoin bet on any bitbet of your choice, lemme know what you want.
mircea_popescu: dude got some pretty slick moves with da ladies i'll tell you that.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i have no idea who the chumpatronicists in question are, or what they charge, but the drawings show that none of it has any relation to physical reality
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You've watch computer engineering long enough to know reality doesn't sell. Charging+Input port sells. Reflective screens sell. Actual reality doesn't sell.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's ordinary chumpatronics, where someone at least showed a bit of effort, and there's utter rubbish that falls apart after thinking about it for ten seconds if you've half a clue
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49043 @ 0.00034462 = 16.9012 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've actually though that kindest thing to do for customers in this market would be standard grain silo pointing down (jsut like missile silo) full of rye. At least can trip balls or have mash to distil before doom
asciilifeform: the funny thing is, that the cost of a reasonable death bunker is nearly equal to the cost of escape.
BingoBoingo: Then again the last really big LSD production bust in the US if I recall correctly was an Atlas-F silo used pretty much this way
asciilifeform: (taken as an approximate thing)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> the funny thing is, that the cost of a reasonable death bunker is nearly equal to the cost of escape. << Yeah, seems at least as much as cost of escape.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo speaking of which, have passport yet ?
Vexual: ive got a nice new inkjet
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm still on the wade through mud plan.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20633 @ 0.00032916 = 6.7916 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you start now, could make it to next year's.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If I did foot the whole way still ~3-4 months late, not counting the antihills of the Darien
asciilifeform: sail might be faster.
BingoBoingo: It would, but requires sinking more costs on expendables. Considering indirect air travel.
Vexual: arent u on a river?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the funny thing is, that the cost of a reasonable death bunker is nearly equal to the cost of escape. << if you think about it, this is necessarily so.
asciilifeform: necessarily?
BingoBoingo: Vexual: A river is near. One navigable by small craft... Maybe...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58550 @ 0.00031464 = 18.4222 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: well yes. prices are not unlike communicating vessels.
mircea_popescu: substantially the same thing wil lcost substyantially the same in a free market. and this is one.
asciilifeform: i get that it's a price signal
asciilifeform: but sorta failing to grasp precisely which.
asciilifeform: death bunker is not substantially the same thing as escape
asciilifeform: except in the 'fuck you i'm a dragon' (tm) sense, i suppose
mircea_popescu: "solution to problem X"
BingoBoingo: Does anything else matter?
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/27SK2XV.txt )
asciilifeform invites aficionados of the subject to study what bunkers that were built by folks who weren't strangers to arithmetic looked like, what was inside, how long expected to function, under what kind of pushback, etc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26350 @ 0.00030937 = 8.1519 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: my mind is still reeling that anyone, anywhere, might have swallowed the '3000 sq. ft for two dozen people', 'grow room' the size of bedroom, idiot hollywood 'motorcycle garage' and 'gun vault', etc.
asciilifeform: instead of taking twenty seconds to find well-documented fortifications built in recent history, as many photos, drawings as could ever wish
BingoBoingo imagines better layout than popular belief one is modest wood frame farmhouse with "bunker" portion used as underground farm/garage
asciilifeform: the concept of clandestine 'farm' with electric lights is a sufficiently familiar one that folks ought to be able to take a napkin calculation and say
asciilifeform: what kind of energy is required, for how much biomass
asciilifeform: and how much, e.g., diesel this translates into
asciilifeform: and what the mtbf of your turbine is
asciilifeform: and how much exhaust
BingoBoingo: Granted this is all easier if you conceed to having an RTG or twenty somewhere on the property.
asciilifeform: a large rtg is about 1kW.
asciilifeform: sell the Pu, buy a cuba.
asciilifeform: from just one.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Most of Iowa is set upon a radio material goldmine, atm it is ust more economical to get food from the topsoil
Vexual: if you're digging deep, why not go to the hot rocks and steam power?
Vexual: then you can recycle water
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