Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-02-28 | 2015-03-02 → ↓
asciilifeform: fat carbon for clarity
asciilifeform: yeah everybody asks about fat carbon
asciilifeform: everyone i ever showed it to
asciilifeform: actually my explanation is off, the center is topologically unique. but the thing meets none of the ochem textbook graph-theoretical definitions for chirality
asciilifeform: but is optically non-superimposable on its mirror image
asciilifeform: and, incidentally, there are other chiralanes possible (you can generate them as computer model, that is. there is, afaik, no known synthesis for any of them)
asciilifeform: anyone who still gives a damn - read the paper.
asciilifeform: and o hey
assbot: organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbyBAs )
asciilifeform: al's still kicking.
gabriel_laddel: What Al would like to test is pretty simple. Is gravity mirror-symmetric? If it is, then you can drop two stereoisomers in a vacuum, and they'll fall at the same rate. We don't know that this is the case, and the universe actually violates mirror-symmetry on many scales. Perhaps a violation will be observable.
gabriel_laddel: But you have to test it.
ben_vulpes: (people can't do "crosseye"?)
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the interesting thing, and important to explain mircea_popescu's puzzlement, is that the enemy has been studiously arranging experiments to avoid actually testing the effect in question and declaring it 'settled'
asciilifeform: or rather, the question of nonexistence as 'settled'
mircea_popescu: eh get out already.
asciilifeform: seriously
mircea_popescu: "the enemy" coudl as well be in korea.
gabriel_laddel: The Eot-wash group won't test this. And the string theorist in that stackoverflow question is more than happy to state that because a large construction of molecules falls at the speed we expect it to, it couldn't possibly happen on a small scale.
asciilifeform: they proclaimed 'settled' after 'carefully testing' left- and right-handed machine screws in a torsion balance
gabriel_laddel: which is obviously horse shit
asciilifeform: and failing to find difference
asciilifeform: lysenko lives
gabriel_laddel: left and right handed machine screws != chirality !11!
gabriel_laddel: but the grant funding people don't know this
mircea_popescu: but this is not germane to the issue.
mircea_popescu: we're not discussing why some other blokes aren't testing it, we're discussing why the proponent isn't.
asciilifeform: the actual matter here is 'what's one physical effect vs hundred thousand respectable careers of respectable people (tm)'
mircea_popescu: and the proponent can't be doing or not doing "because of other people" (tm)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he thought (as of our last at-length exchange, ~3 yrs or so) that he still had a chance to make the torsion balance owners see the light
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: but this is not germane to the issue. << Oh, but it is. These people are prepared to lie at every turn. See the stack overflow post, or the output of the Eot-wash group. If Al or Stan were make a mistake in the run, they'd never be able to test it again.
assbot: HOME | The Eöt-Wash Group ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbzEAt )
asciilifeform: incidentally, he mentioned that other folks also offered to arrange, and he held off for same reason
gabriel_laddel: "1) Search for experimental signs of quantum gravity that violate Einstein's Equivalence Principle and/or the Newtonian inverse-square law."
gabriel_laddel: fuckwads
asciilifeform: aha see they are only interested in finding effect predicted by the usg-sponsored paper machine
asciilifeform: if it doesn't exist, they'd rather not turn up anything
asciilifeform: and certainly not a 'crackpot'-predicted boojum
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel exactly why not lol ?
asciilifeform: the legitimacy of the whole shebang is at stake
gabriel_laddel: As far as I can tell, it comes down to the basic strategic necessity of killing your enemy when you indend to.
gabriel_laddel: If you're not strong enough now, retreat, lick your wounds and then strike when the time is right.
mircea_popescu: i never heard of this bizarro shamanistic approach to research.
mircea_popescu: the shit's hard enough without waiting for complex voodoo to allign.
gabriel_laddel: !s cognitive dissonance
assbot: 13 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance
assbot: Logged on 27-11-2014 15:36:04; mircea_popescu: no wonder everyone in the us needs a college degree. there's no way native intelligence could deal with a tenth of the cognitive dissonance dished out on a daily basis.
mircea_popescu: just measure the damned thing. if it doesn't come out, either refine the machinery or give up.
gabriel_laddel: the US is fucking nuts right now. you live in a bubble of sanity
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's gedankenexperiment. say we build the thing and it runs as predicted (see the last chemistry.stackexchange link for what we'd be doing, roughly)
mircea_popescu: if it does come out, put it on your blog and move on.
asciilifeform: then what
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares what anyone else does ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's it.
asciilifeform: al doesn't, as i understand, agree. he wants it to keep walking from there
asciilifeform: which takes a few $b in imperial money
mircea_popescu: you will notice that the scam foundation is being fucking buried. in spite of... welll... consensus.
mircea_popescu: this shit only works if you buy into it.
mircea_popescu: all this nonsense of little girl stuck on the trans side of maturity river, discussing whether she wants to cross or not, what if the cis side won't be all that it's cracked up to be etc. wtf.
mircea_popescu: maturity is not optional.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: walk where? wants grant money for himself as a result of the discovery?
asciilifeform: have the thing pursued
mircea_popescu: well it's certainly closer to being pursued after being measured than before eh.
asciilifeform: see if effect can be had somewhere -left- of the eigth decimal
asciilifeform: for actual practical uses
asciilifeform: (we discussed some)
mircea_popescu: imagine! "i won't accidentally discover clorophorm unless it can be used as an anesthetic!"
mircea_popescu: this meta cancer upon the modern brain. people spend so much time considering "the implications" of shit that never happened they have no energy left to do stuff.
asciilifeform: what if chlorophorm cost what the 'difference engine' cost.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's time to do a kickstarter.
assbot: Causes and purposes pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBiC4 )
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBkdf )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought you had a handle on the 'provenance' thing - that is, that al doesn't win unless his opponents actually lose by their own rules and surrender by their own free hand
mircea_popescu: "This flat, unyielding ignorance-as-the-forerunner-of-oblivion is both perfectly safev and exactly the adequate pill for the poison in dicussion, because it expends very little productive effort on the part of the productive members of society, while at the same time forcing upon the unproductive the exact Gordian knot they've been trying to talk their way around (and plenty, no doubt, hoped they had succeeded). That k
mircea_popescu: not is of course practice, which is to say : if I were to declare I am ignoring "all that Einstein jazz", all physics penned after 1900 or so, and then built a cathodic tube television that worked just fine without accounting for quantum effects, the trashing and bashing of Einstein fans would be all in vain : I'll just shrug my shoulders, keep building and selling my television sets and care not on whit of whatever th
mircea_popescu: ey may write."
asciilifeform: that is, if one day we simply exterminate them, he still hasn't really won, just sat down in lysenko's throne
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing keeps him from forking chemistry tho.
gabriel_laddel: !s lab nigger
assbot: 2 results for 'lab nigger' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lab+nigger
asciilifeform: al actually spent years battling idiots who 'forked physics' and 'forked chemistry' on usenet, in much the same style as mpoe-pr battled btc sc4mz0rz
asciilifeform: it isn't really a concept he finds digestible
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a fundamental difference between lysenko (nutter whose shit DIDNT WORK) and this (if it works)
gabriel_laddel: Not as easy as it sounds. Life is finite, as exemplified by MP not reading Al's experiment spec, and Al not being MP
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look, irrespective of all that : he can just do the thing.
asciilifeform: except if the difference only becomes palpable a few $b and decades later, it does't really exist to the naked eye
mircea_popescu: it is still a material step that way.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the conclusive test requires the torsion rotor
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: would you mind explaining the exact logistics of the equipment you'd need to put together to run the experiment?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: there were two proposed experiments.
gabriel_laddel: so as to demonstrate exactly why it isn't as easy as "just measure the thing"
asciilifeform: the one i very nearly ended up participating in, is described (roughly) in earlier link
assbot: organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc1SN )
asciilifeform: or actually
asciilifeform: only the feedstock is described therein
assbot: PURSUING THE LIMITS OF FAILED SYMMETRY ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc4OA )
asciilifeform: see vi. parity calorimetry experiment
asciilifeform: section 'VIII. Parity Molecular Rotors' was my demented suggestion
asciilifeform: (suitably poured into the mold of the physically practical by al's expert hands)
asciilifeform: notice specific predicted divergence in microwave spectrogram.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel the problem isn't exactly of the equipment. the problem is that if you make new equipment, you don't know if you're measuring the new equipment vs the old equipment or an actual effect.
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...'
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I don't know the cost associated with calibrating these instruments and can't speak to the truth of that
asciilifeform: essentially, according to 'neutral' folks in physics, al simply doesn't -get to- make the instrument
mircea_popescu: well you asked as to the logisticsa.
asciilifeform: it doesn't count if it's his
asciilifeform: or, at this point, mine
asciilifeform: or mircea_popescu's
asciilifeform: in order for it to 'count' - yes, we have to 'fork physics'
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: well, I was asking Stan specifically becuase he could supply detailed information as to costs and political constraints
gabriel_laddel: which you have hand-waved away
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i can only speak re: the costs of the component which i was to wangle time on
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: well, as the resident expert, would you mind expounding on these costs?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's a thought : if al spent the past five years measuring things rather than skulking, he'd be in a much better position todasy than five years ago.
gabriel_laddel: just so we have a sense?
mircea_popescu: ya kno ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, iirc i also suggested use of microbolometer (aka infrared camera chip die) as a cheapo version of microcalorimeter
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he operates under constraints quite similar to mine
asciilifeform: that is, works in jungle conditions
mircea_popescu: yeah, wellllll....
asciilifeform: i even marvel that he managed to grow the benzil crystal without going to jail
mircea_popescu: why would he go to jail ?
mircea_popescu: i grew permanganate crystals, at least that's a meth precurso.
asciilifeform: unlicensed possession of glassware, caustics, 'drug precursors', ...
gabriel_laddel: intent to manufacture...
decimation: asciilifeform: it seems the polarization version of the experiment would be much easier to set up
mircea_popescu: !up kyuupichan
mircea_popescu: eh get out.
kyuupichan: Hello, bitbet is stuck on the blockchain.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ?
kyuupichan: Once it catches up please review submitted bets.
mircea_popescu: if thjey got rejected you'll prolly have to resubmit.
kyuupichan: Got rejected as no zeroconf but they were, so either reconsider or refund, but at the moment as you think zero was sent you won't be refunding anything right?
mircea_popescu: it'll refund once it catches up im sure.
kyuupichan: Perhaps site needs an alarm where e.g. it's compared vs blockchain.info or blockr.io?
mircea_popescu: this might be an idea.
asciilifeform: 'A money-losing economy, like a money-losing restaurant, sucks. It sucks in all kinds of ways that have no apparent connection to finance. The entire dining experience is grim. This, indeed, is the experience of the entire "old economy" outside the little bubbles of Silicon Valley and Wall Street. My in-laws live in Columbus. Columbus sucks. Even with Chairman Ben's 85-billion-a-month bond-buying "recovery." It is more
asciilifeform: and more palpably a Soviet restaurant.'
asciilifeform: ^ from mr mold's old post, dropped here for the record
asciilifeform: his problem, like al's, is quite arguably: that he hasn't fully accepted death yet.
asciilifeform: and so tries to carve some corner for himself in the shadow of the seemingly-invincible thousand-year reich
gabriel_laddel: Ah. I'd like to point out that Al, unlike Mr. M has done useful work in the interim.
asciilifeform: what al does in his cellar, only the devil knows
gabriel_laddel: From what I could tell, from reading his usenet posts, he continues to work at Occidental research corp.
asciilifeform: i'll point out that publishing -everything- one does is generally a habit of mediocrities desperate for attention
mircea_popescu: the soviet restaurant thing is quite palpable here in argentina.
mircea_popescu: the places where usians go ? shit service, shit food.
mircea_popescu: the rest of the city ? great service, great food.
asciilifeform doesn't publicize so much as a fraction of a percent of what he spends time on
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if they deliberately constructed a home away from home, these people.
asciilifeform: (same probably for everyone here)
mircea_popescu: i can't tell you how many times i've stormed out of a shithole, inexplicable in context.
mircea_popescu: mthreat saw a few instances.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the observation that usa tends to 'follow' the expats wherever they happen to congregate en masse, is an old one
mircea_popescu: there's even a chain of HORRIBLE icecream. in this town, that has the best icecream i have ever tasted, by a long shot, and abundantly supplied by numerous artisanal gelaterias
asciilifeform: fred 'fred on everything' reed mentioned it in his books
mircea_popescu: the usians have a fucktarded chain selling the worst goop.
asciilifeform: my brain melted the first time i learned that many folks in usa can't really make themselves eat actual food
asciilifeform: and only feel the least bit comfortable eating the recycled kind
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, now tell me this : how does teh ussa follow teh expat masse ? shadow fuhrer directs it ?
decimation: I had a similar experience when I went to italy on holiday
mircea_popescu: or is it just, like the gestapo, simply the only shared figment of their infertile imaginations ?
asciilifeform: there's a great ru line from, i think, 'dog's heart'
asciilifeform: something like 'decay isn't this old witch who walks around, it's you and i having bad aim and missing the pisser'
decimation: in the major italian tourist cities, the 'inner ring' around the tourist sites are full of restraunts that are obvious chumpatrons targeting usians and germans
mircea_popescu: there's fruit, and it's grandiose. then there's "fruit", imported by supermarkets for the usian market. you can get quite startling contrasts by buying in both.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Что такое эта ваша разруха? Старуха с клюкой? Ведьма, которая выбила все стекла, потушила все лампы? Да ее вовсе и не существует. Что вы подразумеваете под этим словом? […] Это вот что: если я, вместо того, чтобы оперировать каждый
asciilifeform: вечер, начну у себя в квартире петь хором, у меня настанет разруха. Если я, входя в уборную, начну, извините за выражение, мочиться мимо унитаза и то же самое будут делать Зина и Дарья Петровна, в уборной начнется разруха. Следовательно, р
asciilifeform: азруха не в клозетах, а в головах. Значит, когда эти баритоны кричат «бей разруху!» — Я смеюсь. […] Клянусь вам, мне смешно! Это означает, что каждый из них должен лупить себя по затылку! И вот, когда он вылупит из себя всякие галлюцинации и
asciilifeform: займется чисткой сараев — прямым своим делом, — разруха исчезнет сама собой. Двум богам служить нельзя! Невозможно в одно время подметать трамвайные пути и устраивать судьбы каких-то испанских оборванцев! Это никому не удается, докто
asciilifeform: р, и тем более — людям, которые, вообще отстав в развитии от европейцев лет на 200, до сих пор еще не совсем уверенно застегивают свои собственные штаны!'
mircea_popescu: you'll get docked for spam!
assbot: Inside the food industry: the surprising truth about what you eat | Life and style | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/17HedcY )
asciilifeform: i suppose i gotta translate it now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50099 @ 0.00039606 = 19.8422 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: "The strapline for a product called Butter Buds®, described by its makers as “an enzyme-modified encapsulated butter flavour that has as much as 400 times the flavour intensity of butter”, sums it up in six words: “When technology meets nature, you save.”"
asciilifeform: problem is, 'разруха' doesn't translate.
mircea_popescu: decimation i think it was here. i didn't care to check it out.
decimation: it's as depressing as you would think
asciilifeform: approx. 'ruin' but also shades of 'decay', 'decline', general civilizational degringolade
decimation: "Over the past few years, the food industry has embarked on an operation it dubs “clean label”, with the goal of removing the most glaring industrial ingredients and additives, replacing them with substitutes that sound altogether more benign." "If you noticed that it contained an amino acid such as L-cysteine E910, your enthusiasm might wane, especially if you happen to know that this additive can be derived from animal and human
decimation: hair. But a range of new-wave yeast extracts is increasingly replacing E910. "
mircea_popescu: decimation there's a reason i don't live in "civilised" shitholes. i can taste their "feasts of engineering".
mircea_popescu: anyway, everything in that world devolves to spam, it's one and only true mother.
decimation: new! "contains" "natural" "ingredients"!! it's profitable for us and "ok" for you
mircea_popescu: "labels limit the shitification of food ? SPAM THEM!"
mircea_popescu: money prevents us from being stupid ? SPAM IT!
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only thing the west ever does is, "try and spam it!"
mircea_popescu: somehow the world should be impressed with this "progress", much in the manner parents should be impressed with "look, no hands!"
decimation: it smacks of 'all voice, no exit'
mircea_popescu: not to mention the "all metaconsiderations, no agency"
mircea_popescu: prolly the same exact fundamental.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tLsXBtS9 << passable 'pro' translation
asciilifeform: not mine
decimation: yeah in fact the reason the us succeeded as it were for the first hundred years was because there was much empty virgin territory, so people could 'express agency'
mircea_popescu: the story of individual america is basically one line : "there's no difference between the rich man and the poor man who hasn't yet decided what to buy".
mircea_popescu: as if. but somehow, a billion idiots picked this bit of shoeshiner's philosophy as their foundational line.
mircea_popescu: lettuce all sit forever and ponder the implications of asking the girl out, of measuring the fucking crystals, of spitting on the ant.
mircea_popescu: draw up the entire putative history eight nine steps removed in all directions, till the night comes and we go home.
asciilifeform still thinks the crystal thing made perfect sense in light of protagonist not being ready to 'fork physics'
mircea_popescu: better men later on.
mircea_popescu: but it's inescapable. everything's getting forked. gpg, linux, the world.
asciilifeform: we, in spite of the sweat required, are the lucky fellas.
asciilifeform: because don't need, at least for most of that list, $maxint
asciilifeform: but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ?
asciilifeform: build out of scrap iron in cellar ?
asciilifeform: it is also not entirely clear to me where the 'better men' are to get the $b
asciilifeform: and why they might like to throw it into a strongly -ev pit
asciilifeform: fact is, 'basic science' is -ev when viewed through the lens of a typical human lifespan
gabriel_laddel: "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151550 @ 0.00041401 = 62.7432 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: "-ev" < it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'
decimation: in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research
gabriel_laddel: nein nein nein nein!
asciilifeform: any who are inclined, as mircea_popescu seems to be, to think that 'any idea can be tested and developed in your cellar' should study the history of semiconductor
gabriel_laddel: ;; google John Von Numann
gribble: John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann>; John von Neumann | Institute for Advanced Study: <https://www.ias.edu/people/vonneumann>; History of Computing Science: John von Neumann: <http://www.eingang.org/Lecture/neumann.html>
asciilifeform: which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product
gabriel_laddel: ;; google manhattan project
gribble: Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project>; The Manhattan Project [ushistory.org]: <http://www.ushistory.org/us/51f.asp>; Manhattan Project | United States history | Encyclopedia Britannica: <http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/362098/Manhattan-Project>
gabriel_laddel: ;; google symbolics inc
gribble: Symbolics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolics>; Symbolics.com : The first and oldest registered domain name on the ...: <http://symbolics.com/>; Symbolics, Inc.: <http://www.symbolics-dks.com/>
gabriel_laddel: ;; google Leonardo Da Vinci
gribble: Leonardo da Vinci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci>; Leonardo da Vinci - Biography - Writer, Mathematician, Inventor ...: <http://www.biography.com/people/leonardo-da-vinci-40396>; Leonardo Da Vinci - The complete works: <http://www.leonardoda-vinci.org/>
gabriel_laddel: It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo
gabriel_laddel: and countless derps before that
decimation: gabriel_laddel: who was the 'herri seldon' who foresaw the development of leonardo?
decimation: er, 'hari seldon'
gabriel_laddel: decimation: afaik, no one predicted leonardo, but there were three generations of masters preceding him. He learned from their works
gabriel_laddel: my point is that science does not advance "at random"
gabriel_laddel: nor because of "cranks"
decimation: but the earlier masters couldn't have predicted the results of their erudition
gabriel_laddel: of course not
gabriel_laddel: but that doesn't make it random
gabriel_laddel: can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like?
gabriel_laddel: we know sorta-kinda how it is going to function, but I expect to be pleasantly surprised
decimation: I'm not using the word 'random' to mean 'acausal'
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 23:06:12; asciilifeform: the 'time microscope' thing is typical of aging inventors who, by virtue of being cut off from competent peers (either by having none alive, or being on the wrong side of a jail of one kind or another)
asciilifeform: 'crank' in this context is really anyone who 'forks science' and ends up an army-of-one
asciilifeform: happily chugging along on his lonesome blockchain
asciilifeform: (or not so happily, as the case may be)
decimation: sometimes this happens in unconnected pairs
ben_vulpes checks to see if a > 1mb block is floating around
gabriel_laddel: and sometimes it happens through e.g., MIT, Stanford, library of Alexandria, Manhattan Project
gabriel_laddel: "it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'"
gabriel_laddel: ^ I don't see that this is true.
decimation: what 'basic science' did the manhattan project advance?
gabriel_laddel: the effective use of computing machines iirc
gabriel_laddel: (is this 'basic science'? What is basic science?)
gabriel_laddel: (conceptually basic, atoms and the like, or basic in the sense of a starting point that is eventually abandoned, e.g., alchemy)
gabriel_laddel: is that science?
asciilifeform: basic in the sense of maximally distant from applications.
asciilifeform: e.g., boolean algebra in the lifetime of g. boole.
asciilifeform: in the same sense as the base of a tower is the point maximally far from its tip.
asciilifeform: and on which the rest of the tower - stands.
assbot: math is art | "Discovery is the privilege of the child: the child who has no fear of being once again wrong, of looking like an idiot, of not being serious, of not doing things like everyone else." — Grothendieck ... ( http://bit.ly/1DF4iA9 )
gabriel_laddel: ^ here is a blog I've not gotten around to reading yet
gabriel_laddel: this girl was given 100k by Pete Thiel to think.
gabriel_laddel: she is doing category theory and physics research.
gabriel_laddel: Does this qualify? will she produce anything of interest? I don't yet know.
gabriel_laddel: Christopher Olah, Thiel fellow. Does research on conv. neural networks.
gabriel_laddel: is this basic science?
asciilifeform: he also funded mr mold's crap.
asciilifeform: 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush
decimation: it seems to me that basic science is something that is only obvious in distant hindsight
gabriel_laddel: my point is that this is an organized effort
gabriel_laddel: and organized effords have existed in the past
gabriel_laddel: they will exist in the future, assuming we don't end up glassing the whole planet
gabriel_laddel: 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-02-2015#1035968
assbot: Logged on 28-02-2015 04:19:51; mircea_popescu: if you ask the slut, often enough it's because "he's the only one that asked, and i was getting bored"
asciilifeform: in that sense, the ubiquitous state lottery is also 'organized effort'
asciilifeform: thus far i know of no particular reason why thiel picked the folks he did
gabriel_laddel: (he is attempting to fund basic science)
asciilifeform: except for a vague 'flavour' of 'up&coming young'
asciilifeform: and he is, in that sense, continuing the tradition of the equally boring 'mcarthur prize'
gabriel_laddel: I'm not saying that I beneficiary agree with Thiel's funding decisions, but I am pointing out that there are people attempting to fund basic science, and that there are two specific people I've cited who can be vetted for their contributions.
asciilifeform: (can you name, off the top of your head, a single person who was given the prize - which is intended to set promising young thinkers free from workslavery) who amounted to anything ?
gabriel_laddel: Christopher Olah
asciilifeform: no idea who that was
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ? <<< i thought it was 50k.
asciilifeform: 50k for the might-work calorimetric variant
decimation: so did the swiss patent office 'organize' to advance physics by paying einstein in exchange for clerk-serfdom?
assbot: Archives - colah's blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNXZNa )
asciilifeform: decimation: no because serfdom
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, i'm not proposing anyone's obliged to follow any particular flight of fancy.
mircea_popescu: but the proposition that one shouldn't or understandably wouldn't for it may turn out to be just fancy... that's nonsense.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: and to what does that thing amount ?
mircea_popescu: this is the very stuff of life, following our flights of fancy.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: what would we lose if it never happened
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did try to convince the fella.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: well, in Chris's case, some research on neural networks
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i recall.
gabriel_laddel: In Rin's case, idk yet
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i confess that thiel's experiment would be considerably more interesting if it were 100m not 100k
mircea_popescu: incidentally... olah is kinda how hungarians say romanian.
mircea_popescu: corruption of valah
asciilifeform: 100k buys half a garage where i live
gabriel_laddel: A summary of my points. 1) there are some people attempting to fund basic science 2) I don't agree with all of their funding decisions 3) this isn't the first instance of this occuring in history
asciilifeform: and two garages in alaska
asciilifeform: but then he'd actually need a proper heuristic for choosing his 'soldiers'
mircea_popescu: but thiel wants web2.0 not a new nuke.
asciilifeform: and he hasn't a prayer, and knows it
gabriel_laddel: 4) perhaps the fault lies with those attempting to peruse basic science, for not giving him a heuristic
mircea_popescu: specifically for that reason, yes.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: find someone whose heuristic isn't 'give it to -me-'
asciilifeform: and then talk to thiel
asciilifeform: i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage
asciilifeform: 'why should -this- piece of shit get 100k to enjoy life, while i sit on this stake...'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037139 << of course. meanwhile the last attempt by some other kids to pretend this is the case just imploded ?
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:05:50; gabriel_laddel: "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect the idea wasn't that, but to educate thiel so he's less of a schmuck.
mircea_popescu: people with money they don't know what to do with are the very definition of schmuckdom
asciilifeform: i'm not certain that it is possible to give him a heuristic good enough that he can ditch 'r-strategy' and go with 'k-strategy', to use the zoologist's terms
gabriel_laddel: if you watch thiels videos in particular you can see that he wants to fund interesting things but doesn't know how
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037142 << this is necessarily true, it directly flows from the definitions of the words you use.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:09:13; decimation: in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel or what they are. or how to look for them. essentially he's a girl that'd like to fuck but never heard of clothes, or make-up or going out.
gabriel_laddel: lol I know
mircea_popescu: thiel the nubile savage.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: he's stuck relying on 'legitimate' communities of 'domain experts' and is doomed to never see anything of genuine interest, which is 100% on crank islands
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude gtfo, nobody said management is required to be illiterate.
gabriel_laddel: Eh, I read his startup notes, he has a brain.
gabriel_laddel: and uses it
mircea_popescu: but not an education.
gabriel_laddel: it remains to be seen if he'll grok bitcoin. if he does, he'll probably end up funding interesting things.
mircea_popescu quotes newman :
mircea_popescu: "the education which gives a man a clear conscious view of his own opinions and judgments, a truth in developing them, an eloquence in expressing them, and a force in urging them. It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant."
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: think of how you, yourself, came upon al schwartz's thing
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: was it by speaking with 'legit' physicists ?
mircea_popescu gleefully notices how alf is now using the "you yourself" device.
asciilifeform: or with anyone to whom they might give the time of day?
asciilifeform: it was by hanging with sewer rats
gabriel_laddel: lemme find the video
asciilifeform: brown, grizzled, with monstrous teeth, no ?
mircea_popescu: in this line : "oh mp must be insane to spend all his time on irc, if i was rich i'd do [???]".
asciilifeform: would thiel read, e.g., my site ?
asciilifeform: for all the platinum-iridium toilet in the world ?
gabriel_laddel: he might
asciilifeform: nope. and you can take that to the bank
gabriel_laddel: and you know this how?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the matter with it, you writing with different letters or something ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel, mircea_popescu: simply pointing out that most fiat 'barons' are more like herr buffett than mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: but not for any structural reason, is the important point.
asciilifeform: for the structural reason of preferring their familiar private kitchens to a sewer hatchway
asciilifeform: that leads to hell knows where
mircea_popescu: whether most women in x population are more like californians or saudis has nothing to do wit ha cunt being a cunt.
asciilifeform: and smells funny
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage << a good eighth of my time is spent talking smart young guys down out of a shartup-inspired rage attack
gabriel_laddel: Youtube doesn't have grep, and I'm not going to troll through all these videos to find the one I'm thinking of. In any case, in one of them he states that "scientists have been replaced with baccarats" and that "MOOCs are not going anywhere"
assbot: Peter Thiel Was Right - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNYvux )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's pretty "disruptive" alright, huh. "what are we disrupting ?" "the moral fiber of society"
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel actually moocs are the superlative american college.
gabriel_laddel: baccarats -> bureaucrats
ben_vulpes goes to buy a bottle of wine to fuel the ruby rage
asciilifeform was actually trying to picture casino game
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037154 << i have my doubts about this "productive" perspective.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:11:21; gabriel_laddel: It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i appreciated your point about hating programming recently
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gabriel_laddel i just parsed it as "a weird way to say mountebanks"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm not even fully certain if i hate only programming specifically or work in general
gabriel_laddel: 06:54 << becuase american college sucks
mircea_popescu: well... because it's "universal". once no kid's left behind, the boat's not sailing anywhere.
mircea_popescu: the very fucking point of academia is to sail away.
gabriel_laddel: Yep. Which is my point. Thiel has detected this.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: thiel's spewing trendisms to work your hindbrain
gabriel_laddel: Is he here in #b-a? No.
ben_vulpes: work requires only energy.
ben_vulpes: programming requires obscene mental contortions.
ben_vulpes: oh and dealing with the output of people who "like it".
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: if he was spewing trendisms he'd be /supporting/ the MOOCs
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was speaking of work in the economic sense rather than physical
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel there are two threads here. one is "thiel is dumb". this is not being entertained. the other is, "thiel's uneducated". this is my position.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: he's selective re: which trendisms to employ
asciilifeform: so as to work your hindbrain.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'll add a third
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037147 << if memory serves industrial productness was no part of the discussion.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:10:30; asciilifeform: which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product
asciilifeform: which is that herr thiel is operating on an understanding with the folks who allow him to exist
mircea_popescu: we're at the "known for a long time" hurdle yet.
asciilifeform: that precludes certain things, and requires others
mircea_popescu: that's a null hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: for instance i said null hypothesis as part of a deal with my brain to allow me to continue to exist.
asciilifeform: let's make it concrete
mircea_popescu: (by nh i mean, a statement which has no content)
asciilifeform: what do you suppose would happen if herr thiel decided to pump every penny he had into buying btc ?
asciilifeform: how far would he get before 'having problems'
mircea_popescu: indefinitely far.
asciilifeform: would the folks who can zero his bank balance by pressing a button, let btc climb to 100k usd ?
mircea_popescu: in your craziest models you don't have a hitler lizard tribe capable to handle such sudden bends of activity.
asciilifeform: or use a ten cent bullet
gabriel_laddel: WE DONT KNOW
mircea_popescu: what you describe is a what, 3 sigma event ? there's not a plan in place for two sigma events even. banal shit like "they used plane as rocket"
asciilifeform: this is more along the lines of the mircea_popescu article where 'buffett is not actually rich because his dollars can't be sent to isis'
asciilifeform: ^ which is entirely true, imho
mircea_popescu: so far my bitcoins are getting sent to the btc bears lol.
mircea_popescu: anyway, whatever would happen would come as a surprise to everyone, including in no particular order : a) the people running btc-usd exchanges ; b) you ; c) the friendly usg log reader delegate ; d) isabelle boring or w/e her name is ; etc
mircea_popescu: what WAS that chick's name ?
asciilifeform: unless i catastrophically misunderstand, ^ the bears inevitably get the coin unless a fully bitcoinized supply chain materializes for mircea_popescu and others to use
mircea_popescu: ;;google boring miss florida congressional aide made a derpy "bitcoin chamber of commerce"
gribble: No matches found.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i meant the berkshire bet.
asciilifeform confesses that he wondered if the purpose of that bet was not necessarily to win, but to soften a target
asciilifeform: that is, to exhaust the resources of folks tasked with arranging mircea_popescu losing it
assbot: Bitcoin Press Center | A global media center for bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1zP24tZ )
mircea_popescu: and wtf is "rooteleven.com" anyway
asciilifeform: ;;calc sqrt(11)
gribble: 3.31662479036
gabriel_laddel: 10:37 - who is that with Thiel, could it be the evil racist Charles Murray?
gabriel_laddel: debating on the /same side/?!?!?!
gabriel_laddel: That's not respectable at all!
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the intelligence vs education thing. i wish i had words to express my meaning in intelligible english. let's try by saying that a good mark of one's education is what sort of thing he fills his space with.
asciilifeform won't give a damn if thiel appears with watson and putin also
mircea_popescu: "but honey, you can't marry this guy. his parents have no library in the house!"
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: this is, as far as I can tell, roughly the equivalent of reading your blog.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: lol nope.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you don't need to open a sewer hatchway to get to herr murray
asciilifeform: or watson, or putin
mircea_popescu: Charles Murray, 1st Earl of Dunmore ?!
mircea_popescu: what murray is this ?
asciilifeform: they're mainstream 'guiding lights', albeit - in the degenerate anglo world, with a 'minus' sign
assbot: Charles Murray (political scientist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZ33v )
asciilifeform: nah the other one
asciilifeform: aha him
mircea_popescu: "Charles Alan Murray (born 1943) is an American paleoconservative and paleolibertarian leaning political scientist, author, columnist, and pundit."
mircea_popescu: what's "paleo" mean in wikipedia ?
mircea_popescu: he doesn't eat bread with conservatives ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: so wait, would visiting e.g., Schwartz qualify for "stepping into the sewer"
asciilifeform: it would
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: try to see the pattern here
decimation: mircea_popescu: roughly, 'conservative' in america today means 'republican', which also means 'pro-state'
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I gotcha
gabriel_laddel: finally.
mircea_popescu: so paleo is anti-state ?
decimation: not exactly, but he wouldn't be invited to any parties at cpac
mircea_popescu: do words have any meanings whatsoever anymore ?
mircea_popescu: THIS is a fine example of what i fucking mean by educated.
asciilifeform: murray put his hands firmly on the 'third rail' in usa
mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter how intelligent us kids are.
mircea_popescu: in that cesspool they can't be anything but louts.
decimation: mircea_popescu: modern us politics is a sandpile built upon equivocation
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you need a full body containment suit just to survive as a thinking man here.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to what, finance ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: preferably with closed filtration cycle
mircea_popescu: or to wha texactly. erotica ?
mircea_popescu: what part of english as a single language ISNT perpetual and universally equivocal synonymy
mircea_popescu: Murray's Law:
mircea_popescu: 1. The Law of Imperfect Selection: Any objective rule that defines eligibility for a social transfer program will irrationally exclude some persons.
mircea_popescu: 2. The Law of Unintended Rewards: Any social transfer increases the net value of being in the condition that prompted the transfer.
mircea_popescu: 3. The Law of Net Harm: The less likely it is that the unwanted behavior will change voluntarily, the more likely it is that a program to induce change will cause net harm.
mircea_popescu: ok, that much makes sense.
mircea_popescu: no idea why this'd be "murray's law", but at least i see something.
gabriel_laddel: !s cognitive dissonance
assbot: 16 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance
gabriel_laddel: the US is fucking insane
mircea_popescu: 1. Any rule applied uniformly over a group with a view to some purpose will result in measurable contradiction of the purpose before it results in measurable achievement of the purpose.
gabriel_laddel: people try codifying common sense to make it more palatable - doesn't work
decimation: generally, my understanding is that 'paleoconservatives' want to wind us society back to something resembling the 'cis-democracy' in that moldbug peice
mircea_popescu: 2 is good as is.
mircea_popescu: for the record, the earl dunmore was pretty cool too.
decimation: one of murray's books advanced the idea that the ruling us elite were cutting asunder all social mores and strictures that bound the masses
mircea_popescu: i dun think this is controversial.
asciilifeform: one of the mega-lulz re: 'paleoconservatives' is that most of these folks (that i've had the fortune of reading) struggle with a mental bug - they yearn to roll back to some known-good state where various old-school religions were still strong, but don't personally subscribe to them
decimation: while they silently keep those mores alive amoung themselves
asciilifeform: and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot
asciilifeform: mr mold once confessed that he might like an 'islamization pill'
decimation: george will sort of fits that description
asciilifeform: i, (in my mental card catalogue, naturally) call this 'the green pill'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically they yearn to be women.
asciilifeform: adjunct to blue & red already in the pharmacy we know
asciilifeform: (green for the colour of the prophet's banner, naturally!)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it
decimation: oh, murray also co-authored 'the bell curve'
decimation: which controversially asserted that jews were smarter than blacks
mircea_popescu: how did the ets do ?
asciilifeform: based, iirc, on longitudinal (that is, lifetime progress) study of children, esp. adopted cross-ethnically at birth
asciilifeform: the conclusions of which, interestingly, none of the establishment types bothered to attack directly
asciilifeform: because it was bulletproof
asciilifeform: instead they had to declare murry a public enemy and 'hitler'
decimation: no, but they strongly 'taught the controversy'
mircea_popescu: how many children ?
asciilifeform: ~13,000
mircea_popescu: almost respectable.
mircea_popescu: i was all prepared to hear 300 and say "rubbish"
asciilifeform: it wasn't rubbish.
asciilifeform: that's why the solid wall of bullshit built around the subject by usg
asciilifeform: almost impenetrable by the idly curious
mircea_popescu: ftr, i dun actually credit the race/intelligence theory. not that i have strong feelings either way
asciilifeform: visit a university library; 'bell curve' is a little brick, the 'refutations' - a book case and climbing
mircea_popescu: but the whole thing strikes me like an attempt to establish a link between female beauty and hair color.
decimation: one datapoint "“The NLSY, administered in 1980 to by far the largest sample (6,502 whites, 3,022 blacks) in a national study, found a difference of 1.21 standard deviations on the AFQT.”"
decimation: AFQT means 'armed forces qualifying test'
mircea_popescu: if iq tests worked we'd have usable software.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can work without being any more than 'dismal science'
asciilifeform: that tells you just how fucked you are
gabriel_laddel: if iq tests worked we'd have usable software. << see symbolics inc
mircea_popescu: wait wut !?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i gather, intelligence is only slightly heritable, but stupidity - is very
mircea_popescu: intelligence, in a strict sense of whatever, bus speed ? bus width ? ram ? cpu cycles ? frequency of parity errors ?
asciilifeform: as are a thousand mental dysfunctions most of which haven't even a name
asciilifeform: !s myelin sheaths
assbot: 2 results for 'myelin sheaths' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=myelin+sheaths
mircea_popescu: is really the small part of the discussion. thiel is smart, and it doesn't help him
asciilifeform: ^ i had a physical, testable hypothesis
asciilifeform: check back in 10,000 years when the cockroaches replace us
asciilifeform: they'll test.
mircea_popescu: well... "testable" . you gotta kill people.
asciilifeform: i don't expect it tested in mouse or man in own lifetime
asciilifeform: 'too much fun'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037159 << your point actually fails under its own weight. are fractals random ?
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:13:09; gabriel_laddel: my point is that science does not advance "at random"
mircea_popescu: it advances at random to a random degree, is the thing.
decimation: from the book: “In any case, you are not going to learn tomorrow that all the cognitive differences between races are 100 percent genetic in origin, because the scientific state of knowledge, unfinished as it is, already gives ample evidence that environment is part of the story. But the evidence eventually may become unequivocal that genes are also part of the story. We are worried that the elite wisdom on this issue, for years
decimation: almost hysterically in denial about that possibility, will snap too far in the other direction. It is possible to face all the facts on ethnic and race differences in intelligence and not run screaming from the room: That is the essential message.”
mircea_popescu: which actually means a very good quality random.
mircea_popescu: decimation does it at any place say what it deems intelligence to be, this book ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no, but it does go into the subject of stupidity
mircea_popescu: not a very good book eh.
gabriel_laddel: http://youtu.be/xzTH_ZqaFKI?t=9m57s << neat, working software, with the foundations built by high IQ individuals
assbot: LiveCoding in CommonLisp. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZVVP )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a perfectly good epidemiological work.
mircea_popescu: why does it define stupidity and make statements about intelligence ? should stick to stupidity.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: eww opengl blackbox
asciilifeform saw five seconds, saw enough
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel it occurs to me the templeos guy is kinda high iq
asciilifeform: see also link to classic thread re: 'cranks' coming 'untethered'
asciilifeform: for good or ill
asciilifeform: terry davis doesn't have to answer to a grant committee
mircea_popescu: lmao wtf was this, monkey @ lisp term ?!
asciilifeform: and ends up with certain things, some interesting, some not, with a heavy flavour of jizzus jizzm
asciilifeform: i, in his place, would come up with something quite else
asciilifeform: you - yet else
mircea_popescu: i dun see what "in his place" would mean.
asciilifeform: his 'thiel fellowship' came from usg.
asciilifeform: starvation pension, but enough to keep his computer lit
gabriel_laddel: !s langton's ant
assbot: 9 results for 'langton's ant' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=langton%27s+ant
gabriel_laddel: "what is intelligence?"
mircea_popescu: "like beauty, but for men"
gabriel_laddel: haha yeah
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'his place' - thinking man who found, by accident or otherwise, an escape hatch from arbeit macht frei
mircea_popescu: i dun follow ?
asciilifeform: he doesn't have to work a day job
mircea_popescu: so then im in his place ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: perianne.
mircea_popescu: and you aren't ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes bless you.
decimation: the book has a whole chapter on the subject of defining intelligence
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because you HAVE to ?
mircea_popescu: decimation anything good ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: or just teachin' the controversy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to keep the lights on
gabriel_laddel: monkey @ lisp term ?! << outside of that, have you ever seen any program written as "fluidly"? Which comes back to the original discussion of "what is intelligence"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mayhap that needs work ?
decimation: but essentially ends up with the 'classical' theory, which is 'this statistical thing that tends to pop out reliably on these tests'
gabriel_laddel: "why prefer incremental compilation over batch?"
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i dunno, i dun tend to spy on people writing code that much, i'm prolly the most ignorant in the room on that score.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wai wat ?
gabriel_laddel: because its prettier
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "have to". if you were writing software it'd be a magic variabler.
asciilifeform: iirc i described the kinds of thing i do for living..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, that's not it. if i were in prison, would i HAVE TO be in prison to keep the lights on ?
mircea_popescu: ie, would it be my job ?
asciilifeform: in ru prison circa 1951 - aha, job. want to eat? dig
mircea_popescu: just then ?
asciilifeform: (or, if very talented, beat another fella into digging your share)
asciilifeform: just then << 'peak stalin'
mircea_popescu: my point being, your have to is weak. not to any personal effect, but it does ruin our theory.
asciilifeform: after he croaked, that kind of thing was - at least on paper - somewhat curtailed
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037164 << the important point here is that causes not purposes.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 06:14:45; gabriel_laddel: can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like?
mircea_popescu: for all i care the wot world can result in the sky combusing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is true in that, technically, i could cough up tomorrow's lottery number and play and then 'not have to' and no physical law prevents it
mircea_popescu: combusting*
asciilifeform: but this is not an algorithmic soluton.
asciilifeform: *solution
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or learn to eat air. or w/e.
asciilifeform: aha air
asciilifeform: unbeatable taste
mircea_popescu: well... maybe templeos guy did ?
asciilifeform: not according to his account
mircea_popescu: and he'd know.
asciilifeform: he gets usg pension.
mircea_popescu: because the first thing fish mentions is the water.
asciilifeform: i've no reason to doubt the fact of it
asciilifeform: plenty of folks do - simply that most of them don't write oddball os
mircea_popescu: if facts were facts debates would be silent observances.
asciilifeform: must confess, i don't know him in person
asciilifeform: but his self-portrait isn't in any way stretching belief
mircea_popescu: did i ever tell you about the naked gypsy girl ?
asciilifeform: gets small pension from usg, lives alone in tiny flat, eats little
mircea_popescu: took some ppls to see the enchanted gypsy palaces in turda (romania). which, you know, are pretty elaborate.
mircea_popescu: took a wroing turn, ended up on mud street from 1750. down towards us, completely naked 9yo girl, rope tied around her waist. literally rope.
mircea_popescu: everyone's aghast.
mircea_popescu: but barefoot girl in the mud aside : she probably had parents, who similarly had to work to keep the lights on.
mircea_popescu: in the shape of the sun, i guess.
decimation: someone had to shape the mud into huts
asciilifeform: unless the gurl photosynthesizes - yes, they have to, or starve.
mircea_popescu: no these are literally palaces.
mircea_popescu: lemme dig something up here
asciilifeform: what 'work' means in the gypsy palace, i haven't any notion
mircea_popescu: ;;google palate tiganesti turda
gribble: Palatele tiganesti din Buzescu - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHTBPhQcXCY>; case de tigani - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UQZ64SoDtw>; palatul lui Juliano radu - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7C00pWpDI8>
asciilifeform: but whatever it is they do to keep the trucks coming
mircea_popescu: see the pics / whatevs.
decimation: at any rate, the "iq" thing seems more useful when applied on the population level
asciilifeform: derivatives trading?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a long array of things, all more or less coney.
decimation: it might not tell you who to hire next, but it would explain why nobody in the city you are visiting has heard of plumbing
asciilifeform: or why 400 years of plumbing school at gunpoint had no effect
asciilifeform: decimation has it.
mircea_popescu: decimation would it now ? seems more a function of where htey were born, if they heard of plumbing or not.
asciilifeform: (by 'plumbing' here mean 'not shitting where you drink')
mircea_popescu: i doubt this is inborn.
decimation: wow those really are palaces
mircea_popescu: yes. and you should see the insides, furs and shit. it's really very azn
asciilifeform: complete with wall carpets?
mircea_popescu: always good for a culture shock for usians, because somehow they think starbucks is luxury.
decimation: is this what they do with all the coins they manage to scrape together?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile these dudes fuck on tiger fur.
mircea_popescu: decimation well, some of those were built out of begging, some out of scrap metal theft, some out of who knows what.
asciilifeform: eh betcha it's been deluxurized by chinese tiger farms
asciilifeform: but basic point stands
mircea_popescu: anyway, i was cheating a little ( http://trilema.com/2010/nuditatea-la-copii-si-sugari/ << original article where scene above is described). it just so happens that in that culture, kids are supposed to be naked pre puberty.
assbot: Nuditatea la copii si sugari pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC5Aqy )
asciilifeform: described in, among other places, orlov's
asciilifeform: '5 stages'
mircea_popescu: but point remains : what man HAS TO do is never clear.
asciilifeform: (he takes a strange fixation with the gypsies)
decimation: my usian upbringing causes me to conjure some dude living in a hovel or a wagon upon hearing 'gypsy'
mircea_popescu: decimation in fairness, most do. these are the rare exceptions not the bulk. recall orwell's "jew makes a dollar a day" thing
asciilifeform: i can picture that if mircea_popescu ever opens a jail, all of the cages will open from the inside with a 32-bit combination lock. nobody will 'have to' sit in this jail
asciilifeform: can always open the lock, no ?
mircea_popescu: 32 bit may be a little short.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 6**27
gribble: 1023490369077469249536
asciilifeform: this, incidentally, might be a fairly good 'business model'
mircea_popescu: 6 letter lock.
gabriel_laddel: "let me tell you a story about a mouse I caught in a field..."
asciilifeform: in that the occasional escaped maniac is outweighed by the folks who will sit for decades flipping digits
mircea_popescu: incidentally : this would be a great prison. judge doesn't give you a term. judge gives you a frequency count.
mircea_popescu: you can get out once you're industrious enough.
asciilifeform: i came up with this based on the more well-known 'schrodinger jail'
mircea_popescu: 1:1024*2 for theft.
decimation: plus the prisioners would be occupied with something, instead of scheming how to spray bodily fluids on whoever happens by the slot
asciilifeform: where you get a probability spread as sentence
asciilifeform: and get days off your term for playing 'russian roulette'
mircea_popescu: !up shesek
asciilifeform: decimation: aha, that'd be the point
mircea_popescu: lmao fucken dyslexia
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 27**6
gribble: 387420489
mircea_popescu: i was thinking wtf that many ?!
asciilifeform was thinking 'which six letters'
asciilifeform: and 'why 27 of'em'
decimation: another variant: all the prisoners play 'WoW' - upon gaining some princely sum of gold they can be freed
asciilifeform: decimation: sop in china
mircea_popescu: this is how china does it already.
decimation: hehe yeah
mircea_popescu: "rate jail best on ijail 5bn times, walk free!"
asciilifeform: except afaik they do 'get to eat' instead of 'walk free'
decimation: maybe someone should make a bitbet for the date of the appearance of an official usg 'game'
mircea_popescu: how'd you specify it.
asciilifeform: 'america's army'
asciilifeform: or some other kind of game meant here ?
mircea_popescu: wasn't it "army of one" ?
assbot: America's Army ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO23wG )
ben_vulpes: skinned counterstrike or some such?
mircea_popescu half expects to find some bad retailer on the other end
decimation: the purpose of the game would be to 'sink' hours of the otherwise idle usg employees
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah, zynga something.
asciilifeform: iirc it was freeware
mircea_popescu: "america's army products community" yep right on.
asciilifeform: 3d 'shooter' where you had to 'pass bootcamp', dig pits, die in ten minutes of firefight dropping like potato, etc
asciilifeform: 'realism'
asciilifeform: was commissioned as a recruiting gimmick
mircea_popescu: "About Rin I’m Cathe(rin)e Ray." not bad.
assbot: America's Army: Proving Grounds Beta on Steam ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC7PtG )
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i sent her an email. iron a shirt in case shows up.
gabriel_laddel: Not just you.
gabriel_laddel: Also, lots of asian males.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these are the only folks for whom there isn't already $maxint in handouts
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel azn as in indian, but not chinese.
gabriel_laddel: nah, some Chinese, Vietnamese too
gabriel_laddel: but yes, there are a lot of indians, which I didn't previously notice
mircea_popescu: and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt.
mircea_popescu: well... good for em.
gabriel_laddel: (these being from the previous generations)
mircea_popescu: "Alum and current fellows have produced more than $100 million in economic activity including investments, exits, revenue, and grants. "
gabriel_laddel: I, with the devil's own smile, invite them to take pictures
gabriel_laddel: "If we show up at the border with That We're going straight to prison!"
mircea_popescu: "Fifty-eight organizations and startups have been founded by fellows, employing over 200 people, and creating new technologies that are being deployed around the world."
gabriel_laddel: ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: wait, there's 40 people a year right ?
gabriel_laddel: (From MPs gypsy girl story)
mircea_popescu: so basically they employ themselves ?
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel truth.
gabriel_laddel: most of the companies are just pathetic in practice
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the u.s. military technical term for this is 'self-licking icecream cone'
asciilifeform: !s self-licking
assbot: 10 results for 'self-licking' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=self-licking
gabriel_laddel: the neat people in the Thiel fellowship are the mathematics kids, who are sort of the odd ones out
mircea_popescu was a recipient of something vaguely similar at a similar age.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't do much.
asciilifeform: because it's a temporary parole, for one thing
asciilifeform: if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ?
decimation: you could ration it slowly if you lived in rural kansas
gabriel_laddel: 2 years to play with Mathematics sounds wonderfully useful to me.
mircea_popescu: ah, i a) didn't actually need the money ; b) wasn't really about the money per se anyway
gabriel_laddel: well, in truth the Thiel fellowship doesn't even give it all away at once
gabriel_laddel: which is fucking stupid
mircea_popescu: no, it's not.
gabriel_laddel: they want them to play nicely with the world
gabriel_laddel: fuck that
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: play nicely ?
mircea_popescu: best way to get a bright kid killed is by giving him ten bricks of benjamins.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what, he buys bazooka ?
asciilifeform: what if getting killed with honour is precisely what he wanted and needed
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: they don't want them to e.g., make a napster
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: wai wut
asciilifeform: i thought that was the point
gabriel_laddel: they dole it out a month at a time
asciilifeform: make something thiel-flavoured
gabriel_laddel: and check up on you
asciilifeform: aha so kommisars.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kids. they'll find something to do.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i didn't think the thiel thing could get -more- snoreworthy
asciilifeform: but evidently i was wrong!
mircea_popescu: omg you buncha antisocial haters. you can't have a mentor or anything ?
gabriel_laddel: it seems to me the model is to find smart, angry people, fund them and then when things go to shit, stand behind them and keep them out of trouble.
mircea_popescu: da fuck are some kids gonna suffer from talking to adults ?
gabriel_laddel: but I don't know anything
decimation: what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better?
asciilifeform: decimation: nothing - it's called army
asciilifeform: if they dole it out month at a time - it's a fucking -job-
gabriel_laddel: the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in libgen.info + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery
gabriel_laddel: which would actually be useful
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's called an annuity!
mircea_popescu: which is the better way to get a windfall anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a job if you gotta do xxxxx to keep'em coming
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how do you know this, sight unseen ?
asciilifeform: and avoid doing yyyyy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do you know this ?
asciilifeform: only from gabriel_laddel's summary thus far
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt. << reminds me of the intro line newcomers to pdx-burningman were subjected to without fail for years, presumably if the political correctness mob hasn't gotten to them yet still are: "are you hot?"
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: know what in particular?
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel thgat the adults are not going ot be happy.
gabriel_laddel: Oh, I've teh insider information
asciilifeform: i for one would like to know if any thiel folks have been 'fired'
asciilifeform: and if so, for what.
mircea_popescu: you know blondy, too ?
asciilifeform: i bet they're NDA'd etc. but if you turn the screws, can probably find out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a bad approach.
gabriel_laddel: ^ I know of one in particular...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes both genders ?
gabriel_laddel: He presented someone else's program as his own. They didn't check, being fuckwits, but eventually found out.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: everyone.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i bet you could toss 19 out of 20 of'em for this
ben_vulpes: portland's a moderately kinky town.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel why the fuck would he do that.
asciilifeform: almost invariably 'high powered' kids in usa are simply cribbing mindlessly
asciilifeform: ask a college prof
gabriel_laddel: being a poorfag
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes seems harmless enough.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: sets the tone, you know?
decimation to bed
decimation: !down decimation
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ? << good grief your burn rate, man.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes at least his harem isn't 40k a month!
asciilifeform: did i ever tell the tale of how i was once about to do a little consulting for an engineering prof, and discovered that the code that implemented 'his' algo was plagiarized wholesale by his students?
mircea_popescu: and what IS burning man but fuck club ?
asciilifeform: and that the same happened again after he fired the first set and replaced entire staff ?
asciilifeform: cribbed from public domain libs, quite unrelated to the actual project, passed off as 'new'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you didn't end up beaten as a result of this ?
mircea_popescu pictures kramer @ karate class.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had to refuse the client
asciilifeform: which was painful because he was a family friend and a man i respected
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is that *your* harem's burn rate?
asciilifeform: but he tried to convince me to participate in a sc4m4tr0n
asciilifeform: knew about the 'little problem' and said nothing when commissioning the work
asciilifeform: thought i wouldn't find out.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah merely reference to a discussion in logs a few days ago
ben_vulpes: !s 40k
assbot: 93 results for '40k' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=40k
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, what's the objection to macarthur prizes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no objection as such, aside from 'gimme'
mircea_popescu: 125k a year for five years, beats thiel, but anyway
asciilifeform: just that none of the folks involved, afaik, coughed up anything i'd miss if it were thermonuked
asciilifeform: all summed to zero.
mircea_popescu: imo it's pretty well designed.
asciilifeform: designed to what ?
mircea_popescu: wolfram guy got it, didn't he ?
asciilifeform: iirc he was already rich from scamming
asciilifeform: that is, cribbed 'macsyma' and passed off as own work
asciilifeform doesn't like sc4mz0rz
mircea_popescu: anyway, for 500k, enough respectable names there.
asciilifeform: yes but how many respectable -after- the prize and not before
asciilifeform: as in, not at all before
asciilifeform: street urchin
mircea_popescu: more than half.
mircea_popescu: Klainerman << fine example.
asciilifeform: did he need it ?
asciilifeform: or would've been golden with or without
mircea_popescu: romanian immigrant post revolution
mircea_popescu: whadda ya think ?
ben_vulpes: <decimation> what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better?, <asciilifeform> decimation: nothing - it's called army << do reconsider la serenissima in this light
asciilifeform not insisting it had a 0% coefficient of useful work
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: when do i get to die in a tank
asciilifeform: and can it be a t-34
mircea_popescu: Norman Manea << another fine example.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the way it worked (works? i think, still exists?) is via a kind of secret wot
asciilifeform: which means that these folks weren't total islands
mircea_popescu: o look daniela rus too
mircea_popescu: no srsly, it's 3/3 so far.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yup. which is why i had a vague positive idea about it. never bothered looking.
mircea_popescu: but now that i did look, it seems clearly that the thing works.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this is not the war you grew up idolizing. it's war, which means it's going to be horrible and unpleasant for all involved.
asciilifeform: it has same problem as the aids test
mircea_popescu: MUCH better than the buffett out. "i leave my money to bil lgates"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's got death, no ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'sexy' or not
ben_vulpes: so you claim.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes btw, daniela rus should be right up your alley.
asciilifeform: same problem as aids test meaning here, that i'm much more interested in the folks left bugling in the dark
mircea_popescu: self reconfigurin robots etc
asciilifeform: and i use extant academia as an antiwot
asciilifeform: i.e. if you can get printed there, you're suspect
asciilifeform: (at the very minimum - of being a snore)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm actually pretty disgusted with "modern" "robotics"
ben_vulpes: a) it's all usg "tin woman" crap
mircea_popescu: mebbe look into this one ?
ben_vulpes: i'll *keep* looking
ben_vulpes: cursory inspection reveals nothing interesting.
asciilifeform: wake me up when a roboticists asks me for the waveguide motor
ben_vulpes: i'm more interested in underactuated systems.
ben_vulpes: map servers and massively parallel SLAM
asciilifeform: y'know, the one where you can have arbitrary jointless articulation without precision parts, lubrication, or freely moving parts at all
asciilifeform: for the cost of a length of copper cable.
mircea_popescu: afaik the woman's idea was "hey, what if we made robots capable of altering their own geometry, that way they won't have to be pre-programmed"
mircea_popescu: which is a golden thought.
asciilifeform: when somebody so much as asks, i'll believe there's life in 'robotics';
ben_vulpes: you still have to program the meta layer.
asciilifeform: until then it's makework
asciilifeform: and cargokultism
asciilifeform: (yes i can buy a 4-axis arm from fujitsu, and it'll do same thing as in 1969, whoopie)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes or make more of them
gabriel_laddel: ^ ascii, I've mentioned this idea to 3 people - all reject it on grounds of "it can't be that easy, my school had all sorts people working on these problems and they never thought of it"
gabriel_laddel: none took the time to test it out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doing any of it with mechanical articulation is a sad joke
ben_vulpes: especially and in particular the underwater stuff.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think what was being contemplated was more akin to a synthetic amoeba than a mechanical sheep.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik the only place the required - non-negotiably - tech exists - is in my skullcase.
asciilifeform did look
mircea_popescu: so how would they ask ?
asciilifeform: because i spilled it here, for one thing
mircea_popescu: may take a decade.
ben_vulpes: as a guy who's cobbled together the odd machine or two, the notion that you can have a million little bits cooperating to give you the power of a purpose-designed driveshaft one moment and slither through a keyhole the next strikes me as wankery of the first degree.
asciilifeform: for another, spilled to various folks in periphery of academwot
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well, "cooperating".
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's your finger made of ?
ben_vulpes: purpose built mechanisms.
mircea_popescu: "if you're willing to pay for ten million of these, i can prove to you that in any conceivable situation no less than 3 will be useful to your purpose"
ben_vulpes: several joints, some tension mechanisms and some springs.
mircea_popescu: and good math to show it, too
ben_vulpes: grey goo pipe dreams.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is a great convo but bed's better, so! tomorrow.
asciilifeform: nightie
ben_vulpes: we don't even have computers that cooperate.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: basic idea, if you recall, was same as in ordinary ac motor
asciilifeform: that is, rotating field.
asciilifeform: except you don't have a rotor or stator as such, they're dynamically 'moving' via phase shifting
asciilifeform: this should be enough for chinese or north kr skunk works to build it.
asciilifeform: and i sincerely hope they do.
asciilifeform: perhaps same division that built al's thing.
ben_vulpes: superimposed waves traveling through wire applying force at arbitrary points?
asciilifeform: work it out yourself if you like
ben_vulpes: what's to work out?
asciilifeform: the details
asciilifeform: the ones where 'the devil lives'
asciilifeform: realize, it flexes
asciilifeform: (that being the point)
asciilifeform: so geometry is not static
ben_vulpes: right, there's a recursive aspect to the problem.
asciilifeform: only reason tesla didn't build it
asciilifeform: didn't have a pc
asciilifeform: otherwise all of the parts were available to him
ben_vulpes: aside from the sims.
asciilifeform: (no, this is not in his materials, don't bother looking, merely pointing out that the fella who discovered rotating magnetic field application could have made the next step and went here)
ben_vulpes: this brings back my hankering for real time optimization problems.
asciilifeform: i have a friend whom i see very rarely, and often asks about 'the elephant trunk'
asciilifeform: and i say to him 'no, and probably never, need 1+ yr when i don't have to think about work even once;
ben_vulpes: ugh this conversation makes me downright mournful
asciilifeform: the cockroaches take over - they will build.
ben_vulpes: morose*
ben_vulpes: do you know what i'm doing right now?
ben_vulpes: loading the "rails" stack into my head.
ben_vulpes: and yes - drinking. albeit lightly.
asciilifeform doesn't know precisely what is involved, but imagines that it's a rather dreary thing
ben_vulpes: i would rather be working on satoshi c++.
ben_vulpes: at least that bends somewhat to grep.
asciilifeform: and... whatever that was.. doesn't ?
asciilifeform: closed turd?
ben_vulpes: not...readily.
ben_vulpes: i must learn more incantations, apparently.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16389 @ 0.00040823 = 6.6905 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58718 @ 0.00038879 = 22.829 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: File:Frondizi y Kennedy en Estados Unidos 1961.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO6Uhr )
gabriel_laddel: they look like trustworthy fellows
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00038818 = 9.4328 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79150 @ 0.00040432 = 32.0019 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.0004118 = 14.9072 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.0004118 = 14.9072 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6344 @ 0.0004136 = 2.6239 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00039253 = 12.3254 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00041375 = 16.881 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22847 @ 0.00039253 = 8.9681 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23553 @ 0.00039181 = 9.2283 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100328 @ 0.00041223 = 41.3582 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74453 @ 0.0004198 = 31.2554 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 345698 | Current Difficulty: 4.668437631686029E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 346751 | Next Difficulty In: 1053 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 45 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47431145154.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.59961
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2747 @ 0.00039181 = 1.0763 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38353 @ 0.00038818 = 14.8879 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in libgen.info + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery << Plain OCR is normally sufficient for books without advanced mathematics as long as you are willing to liberate the pages from the spine. Test it with a sheetfed scanner sometime.
assbot: Adam Drake ... ( http://bit.ly/1wAlWFK )
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: That is a great experiment. The PGN format is maximally user and machine readable. Amazing how the blockchain makes some stuff people try to pass as "big data" seem much smaller.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
punkman: blockchain is not big data, not yet at least
punkman: everyone's wants to work on "big" data now, you use enough buzzwords you get a raise
fluffypony: yeah Hadoop != blockchain
BingoBoingo: punkman: Blockchain's awfully dense.
fluffypony: Hadoop doesn't have anything remotely resembling a blockchain
punkman: why would it
BingoBoingo: I dunno that hadoop does anything that can't be doen better with key value stores
fluffypony: it's also exceptionally powerful for analysing very large datasets
fluffypony: like in the multi-terabyte or multi-petabyte range
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: it *is* a key-value store
fluffypony: what it does better is that each piece of data is stored on at least 3 servers in the cluster
fluffypony: and then queries are distributed
fluffypony: so map->reduce works by sending the queries out to all the servers, they do the analysis, reduce it, and send the results back
fluffypony: and then all you're doing is re-assembling the small set of results you get and doing any final analysis on it
BingoBoingo: It sounds like if hadoop appears to solve a problem, then you have a number of other problems
punkman: well it's Java, so you are fucked
fluffypony: why? it's not accessible on the open Internet
punkman: because enterprise
punkman: maybe I've never seen the good Java
punkman: probably because it's buried in 132 subfolders :P
punkman: fluffypony: why? it's not accessible on the open Internet << or is it... https://www.shodan.io/search?query=hadoop
assbot: hadoop - Shodan Search ... ( http://bit.ly/1E66QIB )
fluffypony: badly configured anything is bad :-P
punkman: http://qntra.net/2015/02/tour-of-a-chinese-bitcoin-mine/ << so I tried this Path of Exile game mentioned in the article
assbot: Tour Of A Chinese Bitcoin Mine | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1E68nyk )
punkman: weird economy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33538 @ 0.00038826 = 13.0215 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up AdrianoOliveira
assbot: The Virgin Cobbler ... ( http://bit.ly/1aHnkwi )
BingoBoingo: Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could
jurov: by force of procrastination!
jurov: http://hpmor.com/chapter/113 lol yudkowski threatening the readers by "Otherwise you will get a shorter and sadder ending."
assbot: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 113: Final Exam ... ( http://bit.ly/1aHrOmp )
jurov: gotta start the monthly stuff now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00040201 = 16.6432 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: and what IS burning man but fuck club ? << not entirely this is about 1/3 of it. Another 1/3 is "Holy shit I'm on so many drugs what's even going on, how do I survive, OMG this is so fucking awesome I wanna run around and do nothing cause I have no obligations or worries at the moment." Another 1/3 is "Holy fuck that giant thing is burning holy fuck holy fuck that is fucking awesome." IMO Burns are probably the
thestringpuller: probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains.
thestringpuller: "With 2 million+ citizens, Buenos Aires is one of the most demanding cities in the world. All 16 political groups in power helped to make it the first one in Latin America to let its citizens have direct input on its bills." Uh huh.
asciilifeform: fuck - with the thickest stake in the wallachian forests - the people who brand every idiot ubuntu rebrand as an 'os'
thestringpuller: Looks like the founder is HQ'ed in B-A
punkman: asciilifeform: it's a web thingy, not ubuntu
asciilifeform: punkman: even worse
punkman: basically forum software
punkman: totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding."
thestringpuller: punkman: i think democracy and cryptofeudalism are incompatible
punkman: oh it has a blockchain too "Trust is deeply built into DemocracyOS using decentralized authority to certify every single decision made."
punkman: "But aware that in politics not everything happens online, we also created a new kind of political party: The Net Party. Its candidates are committed to always vote in Congress according to what citizens vote online."
asciilifeform head-desks
punkman: "The foundational document of The Net Party is its manifesto. Written in a collaborative process by the founding members, it consists of 60 expressions in tweet form so it can be easily shared in any kind of network. It expresses our deepest beliefs on how democracy and the net can help improve our institutions."
punkman: "The Net Party got 22.000 votes (1.2%) in its 1st election in Buenos Aires, October 2013."
punkman: myeah
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it's okay. it's not your fault.
asciilifeform: lol, virtually undisguised usg muppetronics
thestringpuller: but everyone loves Chuck E Cheese and Disneyland!!!
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-02-2015#1033086 "the administration is boosting efforts to counter ISIS on social media. The plan centers around a small State Department agency that pushes against ISIS and other groups' online propaganda."
punkman: ""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs"
asciilifeform: spam like a pro, usg.
thestringpuller: good afternoon mr. popescu
thestringpuller: how are you?
mircea_popescu: not bad.
assbot: Detienen a una mujer por masturbarse en el cine con 50 sombras de Grey . La Verdad ... ( http://bit.ly/1zvBgOt )
mircea_popescu: pr piece.
asciilifeform: ^ was my guess
mircea_popescu: so fucking transparent by now. you seen the buzzfeed "great idea" ?
asciilifeform: surprising that this isn't a more common tack for these
asciilifeform: "great idea" << nope
mircea_popescu: they created permanent sessions for users, showed some a dress like so, others a dress like something else
mircea_popescu: then idiot usians had debates about the true dress and the biological causes of not seeing it right
mircea_popescu: because they're, by now, this fucking stupid.
mircea_popescu: i could scarcely conceive of an experiment to more convincingly verify the "our audience is entirely worthless" theory. it's verified alright.
asciilifeform: wai wat
assbot: The Dress: La explicación del vestido que cambia de color genera más de 27 millones de visitas ... ( http://bit.ly/1AKWJYO )
mircea_popescu: there, to keep to the es theme.
mircea_popescu: !up lrak
mircea_popescu: !up mogreen
mircea_popescu: !up nijotz
mircea_popescu: !up Stellarflip
mircea_popescu: !up tsoulus
mircea_popescu: !up yrashk
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel argentina has a fixation on electing newspaper men. mitre, frondizi, etc.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.0003877 = 10.7781 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037936 << i played it maybe two years ago, was a decent diablo clone.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 16:09:30; punkman: weird economy
punkman: the crafting's kinda fun
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037942 << i found one before too! your bot's like broken.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 17:03:26; BingoBoingo: Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could
BingoBoingo: !s from: oglafbot
assbot: 0 results for 'from: oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3A+oglafbot
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 01:32:37; mircea_popescu: @ BingoBoingo : http://oglaf.com/rally/
kakobrekla: BingoBoingo i think you need to cut the space there
BingoBoingo: !s from:oglafbot
assbot: 28 results for 'from:oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aoglafbot
assbot: Logged on 23-02-2015 00:47:56; oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/rally/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65247 @ 0.00038578 = 25.171 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34350 @ 0.0003848 = 13.2179 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037950 << it's just "poor kids in college". roughly speaking salmon to the bear.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 17:48:00; thestringpuller: probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037958 i don't even want to get into a discussion of how barbarously stupid they are.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 18:10:24; punkman: totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037971 << "i have an idea... let's pay isis people to tweet anti-isis messages instead of beheading our guys. a) it worked for the idiot usians and b) it's easier to do, right ? which is what the consumers have come to expect"
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 18:18:36; punkman: ""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs"
mircea_popescu: this is pretty much the entire story of the us : let's pay everyone pretend money so they pretend we're important enough to invent money.
mircea_popescu: approximately the life plan of a sexually worthless, narcissistically superlative 15 yo priss.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "pay everyone pretend money" << reminds me of http://americandad.wikia.com/wiki/Red_October_Sky from american dad
thestringpuller: "When Francine tells Stan she wishes he hadn't spent all their savings, he says he needed to spend money to make money. Francine then says that Stan didn't make any money, which Stan says implies that he didn't spend any money either"
mircea_popescu: what's this, the simpsons theatrical release ?
thestringpuller: nah it's seth mcfarlane trolling amercians cause they're too dumb to realize what's really going on
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's a spin off of a spin off of a spin off, because when people develop a taste for a particular shit, why not enlist more orfices to produce it
mircea_popescu: for the record, i just started writing a solution to that harry potter thing.
asciilifeform: solution?
mircea_popescu: i never read the damned books, but the challenge is interesting.
mircea_popescu: should be done in an hour.
assbot: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 4: The Efficient Market Hypothesis ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI0nsQ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104700 @ 0.00038341 = 40.143 BTC [-]
assbot: The Harry Potter challenge pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI3CjT )
jurov: orly
jurov: it's good. But not clear if voldemort going completely insane implies "allow Harry to evade immediate death"
mircea_popescu: he crushed the situation.
mircea_popescu: it never happened.
mircea_popescu: anyway, some comments in the general, for the aspiring writer : a) the most important weapon in the quiver of the scammer, which is what all fiction is, is misdirection. you were being misdirected into thinking harry potter should have agency by all the insistence on how he doesn't. (look up chekov's gun, while at it). the correct solution of a problem of agency is to attack the agent.
mircea_popescu: which is why it took me twenny minutes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: related field - stage magic
mircea_popescu: b) agency means growth. you can recast any actual situation into something that's a personal experience, and vice-versa. this is a major power.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite.
asciilifeform: unrelated, and for aficionados only: re: the old 'integrated circuits by hand' thread: http://www.155la3.ru/k240.htm
mircea_popescu: voldemort jacking off by himself to visions of a destroyed enemy is not unlike harry potter "studying magic really hard".
asciilifeform: pictured device is a half-adder
asciilifeform: when i was a boy, these were being sold, laid on carpets in the town market, right next to rabbits and dogs
mircea_popescu: i saw that kinda flea market
asciilifeform: for some reason the theft of several examples of these curios by usg from sunken submarine is still considered a deep secret in usa
asciilifeform: (ru sub, howard hughes and his record-breaking salvage boat, famous project)
asciilifeform: if one were to read the data sheet (scan, http://www.155la3.ru/datafiles/2lb402_tu_1975.pdf ) will find that it had around 50-60 nSec propagation delay. which is pretty good for the period
asciilifeform: i should like to learn how these were assembled.
asciilifeform: one can safely guess that it was pants-creamingly cheap
asciilifeform: compared to american ic of the modern type, of that period
asciilifeform: also notice the em cage around the package.
asciilifeform: correction: first device pictured is a timer. second - half adder
asciilifeform: or rather, eight half-adders
thestringpuller: Full adders are cooler than half adders
thestringpuller: need dat carry bit all day erryday negro
asciilifeform: the timer appears, on cursory reading, to be a clone of the universally known '555'
asciilifeform: but contains six of'em
asciilifeform: anyway, posted here solely for the photos of 'what if we just had very small transistors and planted them down on very fine pcb'
asciilifeform: discussed in last week's thread.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you don't like IC's?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: thread was re: whether and how one could build a reasonable computer without access to ic fab or the output of one
asciilifeform: that is to say, with the ability to arrange arbitrary logical elements
thestringpuller: ah yes. log reference or search keyword?
thestringpuller: i have pondered the same thing myself
assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 18:03:08; asciilifeform: it does no good to take extant ic fab practice and work 'down'
asciilifeform: (thread above and below link)
thestringpuller: I do wonder if we'll ever be able to print IC's without being millionaires or wholesalers.
thestringpuller: wholesellers*
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if interested in this subject, read - at least that - thread
mircea_popescu: jurov what is this anyway ? i thought some woman wrote harry potter ?
mircea_popescu: who's yakudskty
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26323 @ 0.00040124 = 10.5618 BTC [+]
jurov: !s eliezer
assbot: 4 results for 'eliezer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eliezer
asciilifeform: !s yudkowsky
assbot: 18 results for 'yudkowsky' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yudkowsky
jurov: and yes, j.k. rowling aoriginally wrote it
asciilifeform: we did yudkowsky here at least five times, iirc
jurov: but herr yudkowsky was apparently upset at harry's stupidity and wrote a fanfic
mircea_popescu: i dun get it.
mircea_popescu: oh oh i c.
asciilifeform: jurov: nope. he wrote it as a propaganda device for his cult
asciilifeform: and it works
jurov: ah, that too
mircea_popescu: so ima have two things out of this. first an arguent with alf, then once laddel and the rest of the proponents of "intelligence" wake up, ima have one with them.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022584 << So what is the "value" of interns?
mircea_popescu: so asciilifeform, do you see how the situation here maps exactly on the uncle al and the magical molecule situation ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i read the foibles of al slightly differently. more as a failure to intellectually detach from usg
asciilifeform: because, in his mind, there is no place to go
mircea_popescu: but have i just forked "the world" ?
mircea_popescu: i have no guarantee that this goes into the... canon, or w/e, fanon-type-45345
asciilifeform: the way al saw his situation, there are precisely two choices for him - usg and its apparatchiks, and the world of unfiltered and unfundable idiot alchemists, astrologers, 'phree energy' imbeciles, and other usenet denizens which he spent all of the '90s recreationally hunting for sport
mircea_popescu: right. and here the same : paste your text as a "review", or publish it on your blog.
asciilifeform: these figures living, as they do, in 'forked worlds'
mircea_popescu: like you know, all the other blogs.
mircea_popescu: except... not.
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: he did publish on his www
mircea_popescu: in this perspective, al's lament reduces to tim sweeney's lament. "oh woe that not being in the wot my ideas hold no value"
asciilifeform: the thing's been there since mid '90s
mircea_popescu: well... stfu and get in the wot. nobody, NOBODY is above the intern work for a year.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is not how this works.
mircea_popescu: the equivalent of "story published on blog" is "50k calorimetry assay"
asciilifeform: he wants to be in the wot of the folks with the machine
mircea_popescu: not "also published on blog"
asciilifeform: the bloody machine
asciilifeform: not ours.
mircea_popescu: fuck him. it's not about what he wants.
mircea_popescu: he does not want, he does.
mircea_popescu: this is the cornerstone.
mircea_popescu: people have to fucking realise, for once in their life, that a_) fuck them and b) it's not about what they want.
asciilifeform: incidentally, upon rereading last night's log, i must publish a correction
asciilifeform: i did emphatically did -not- invent or design the calorimetric test
asciilifeform: but rather the feedstock for the spectroscopic test.
asciilifeform: of similar difficulty and expense
mircea_popescu: but back to the story : if your call on the y fellow is correct, he makes for an absoluely perfect model of "chemistry usg".
asciilifeform: idea being, 'me: if gravity has chiral component, consider two propellers glued back to back as 'barbell'. ought to rotate in a particular direction depending on orientation. align using electromagnetic means, infer angular momenta' al: 'here's how'
asciilifeform: *molecular 'propellers' that is
asciilifeform: not, of course, macroscopic ones
asciilifeform: 'barbell' rotates if propellers face in same dir
assbot: Google wants to rank websites based on facts not links - 28 February 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrcfGl )
asciilifeform: but if not - bond strain increases - which you can also measure
asciilifeform: chetty: based on phacts
mircea_popescu: chetty this has been going on for a while actually.
thestringpuller: ^- didn't he end up eating green eggs and ham at the end of the book?
asciilifeform: ^ l33t w4r3z
asciilifeform: and, spoiler: sure he did
chetty: <mircea_popescu> chetty this has been going on for a while actually.//it just sounds worse when the internet is a public utility
mircea_popescu: but seriously, wikipedia is returned because "fact:wikipedia is what we promote" rather than any "algorithmics"
mircea_popescu: and so are plenty of other things. the guardian and washpo and the rest of the buzzfeed carrion crawlers aren't up there because they favorably compete with qntra on some sort of machine basis
mircea_popescu: they're just "facts".
mircea_popescu: and once i get my hands around their throats, the "facts" will be slightly divers.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 25000 @ 0.000065 = 1.625 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://portal.tpu.ru/files/departments/publish/VK_AkylovBaydakovVasiliev.pdf << even if you don't know ru, you may find this interesting for the diagrams. use and engineering manual to famous ru 'igla' ('needle') rocket.
assbot: Physical Examination of the Vulva, Vagina and Cervix in the Mare - Towcester Equine Clinic - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Drgyl5 )
asciilifeform: afaik no analogous american document exists in open literature
cazalla: punkman: re: path of exile, i like that the economy is based around orbs (at least it was when i was playing) but i quit after my hardcore char died in lower 90s
cazalla: for anyone that has not played it, orbs act a little similar to soj economy, but unlike d2, poe did away with gold drops and crap like that, pure barter system
thestringpuller: the soj economy was rigged!
thestringpuller: cazalla: was a dooper
thestringpuller: but srsly soj economy was so annoying. the rune economy was a bit better
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00040124 = 1.0031 BTC [+]
cazalla: i didn't play much lod which from memory brought runes
cazalla: i tried to sell orbs for btc in poe 2 years ago but noone had heard of bitcoin except 1 guy
thestringpuller: baal runs made it easy to get that XP
thestringpuller: just sit in corner level up
thestringpuller: then go magic find on meph runs
thestringpuller: LoD was dope
cazalla: thestringpuller, poe map runs > baal runs
cazalla: it's one thing they did really well but i think poe made it more noob friendly
thestringpuller: D2 was kinda like crack. You played it, didn't know why, and before you knew it you were hooked.
cazalla: problem with playing D2 from australia was that you could still only get dialup and it was better to play on a fake battle.net hosted at your isp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00039199 = 12.7397 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Background for non-transhumanists:
mircea_popescu: Transhumanists are not fond of death. We would stop it if we could. To this end we support research that holds out hope of a future in which humanity has defeated death. Death is an extremely difficult technical problem, to be attacked with biotech and nanotech and other technological means. I do not tell a tale of the land called Future, nor state as a fact that humanity will someday be free of death - I have no magic
mircea_popescu: al ability to see through time. But death is a great evil, and I will oppose it whenever I can. If I could create a world where people lived forever, or at the very least a few billion years, I would do so."
mircea_popescu: lmao this fucktard.
mircea_popescu: why are all these driven nuts so mentally simple anyway ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's bait
asciilifeform: he's no imbecile, but cynical bastard who knows exactly what he's doing
mircea_popescu: if it is or if it isn't...
asciilifeform: ancient device of immortality 'jam tomorrow' promise
asciilifeform: reworked for homo redditicus
mircea_popescu: so he's another modlbug. what difference does it make ? still simple.
asciilifeform: simple bait, works.
mircea_popescu: besides the point.,
mircea_popescu: "why are you spending your time with cockroaches ?" "i kill them" "yes. but you're still spending time with them."
asciilifeform: ^ life of programmers
mircea_popescu: imagine the horror of this. "i invented a machine which lets you live on for a billion years, so you can write stupid shit so that stupid people keep on powering it"
mircea_popescu: said every literary hack ever.
mircea_popescu: anyway. if there's anyone who actually had the patience ot read all this stuff and wishes to proffer a summary please do.
assbot: Logged on 18-11-2014 15:38:39; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu with regard to the 'abuse of statistical devices' outlined in note iii, the accomplished master of the art is a fellow named yudkowsky (search #b-a log). he isn't an idiot, bastard knows exactly what he's doing, and his cult is a veritable vacuum trap for thinking folks
mircea_popescu: i see the guy's been pouring out a coupla million words, which is more than moldbug, but i won't be bothering to actually read the shit, it's too stale.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "igla" << why must you torture me
ben_vulpes: there's no reason why these things should cost $MAXINT, aside from the prohibition on owning the constituent materials for any not favorite son.
ben_vulpes: ugh your paradigms are infectious.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: homo redditicus << can I use this in future qntra articles?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: IFF mechanism << another application for asymmetric crypto.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: gorgeous diagrams. thank you.
danielpbarron: !up indiancandy1
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: you must be omnitwitteraware
thestringpuller: second bb posted my article was downstaires getting moar beer
thestringpuller: i see "You have 1 new twitter mention" on my phone
indiancandy1: thanks daniel
assbot: Silbert's BIT To Trade On Pink Sheets | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0RMNn )
jurov: btw have you seen the "nyse to invest to CBSE" tidbit?
assbot: NYSE, USAA and BBVA Make $75M Coinbase Investment | PYMNTS.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0S1I6 )
jurov: !t m d.cbse
assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
jurov: lol, assbot ate it
jurov: The total raised by Coinbase has now hit $106 million. Coinbase, a San Francisco-based company reports that there are 2.1 million bitcoin wallets from a customer base of 1.9 million
jurov: ;;calc 106/1.9
gribble: 55.7894736842
jurov: ^ per chump
cazalla: jurov, yeah that's old news now
jurov: haven't seen it discussed here
jurov: maybe i miss something but D.CBSE looks attractive
cazalla: i think BingoBoingo wrote that up if memory serves
BingoBoingo: Old news, being repeated because google news sucks
thestringpuller: jurov: attractive to short?
jurov: you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million?
jurov: that's what D.CBSE price implies
thestringpuller: jurov: haven't they raised in the 100's of mn?
jurov: yes
thestringpuller: SF, prosperity built on fake money.
jurov: so if they manage to IPO coinbase, it can raise so much, no?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24666 @ 0.00039445 = 9.7295 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: they'd have to raise more than their "implied valuation" right? like 100 mn+ ?
thestringpuller: so early investors can exit cleanly, aka the FB IPO scam.
jurov: For D.CBSE long investment to be even, it needs "only" $46m IPO or buyout
jurov: at current btcusd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14984 @ 0.00040351 = 6.0462 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: and i'm curious why mircea thinks that won't ever happen
thestringpuller: risky cause who knows if they ever IPO...
thestringpuller: or get bought out.
jurov: imo they can't afford to wait either
jurov: (they=the bezzle investors)
thestringpuller: jurov: what if the bezzle investors don't care tho?
thestringpuller: you do bring up good question tho: what is the bezzle investors endgame (or what they have in mind at least)?
jurov: waterfall operators definitely care
jurov: yes, maybe they want just to drive it to the ground
jurov: i dunno, just asking. and don't want to tie more bitcoins for indeterminate time in D.CBSE, either.
mircea_popescu: !up indiancandy1
thestringpuller: if company is run into ruins (i.e. MtGox)...it is moot issue
mircea_popescu: <jurov> you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million? << you realise this round was utterly dillutive right ?
mircea_popescu: 75mn with btc at 250 means 300k extra btc worth of shares.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14539 @ 0.00038341 = 5.5744 BTC [-]
jurov: yes, dilutive.. on other side, it increased the number of people interested to inflate it beyond all reason and then release it
mircea_popescu: just because of btc/usd vagaries, the original investment (which happened at 1200) lost 85% of its value.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> that's what D.CBSE price implies << actually, no, the price implies they can't sell for over 350k btc at the time they sell.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: gorgeous diagrams << that thing contains perhaps 80% of the info required to construct the rocket.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the algorithmics are not described in great detail, but the waveforms representing the proportional-control mechanism are shown, and at this point the 'multicopter' folks have rederived all of it and then some
asciilifeform: very basic maths
jurov: they can't sell for over 350k btc.. << or else? you'll keep selling as many D.CBSE as necessary?
mircea_popescu: suppose in 2020 coinbase lists on nyse, 100mn shares, and they go for 50 bux each. that's 5 bn.
mircea_popescu: suppose at the same time btc/usd trades for 18`560
mircea_popescu: at that point, the coinbase listing has actually been a net loss for d.cbse holders.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: some of the more interesting stuff is in the text - e.g., description of the molten-electrolyte battery; the sensor cooling system; the guidance loop per se
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'll add that the document is in fact a textbook for detachment commanders operating the rocket
asciilifeform: published by tomsk politechnik university press
mircea_popescu: jurov as an example, if someone bought 100 shares on mpex today at the 0.239 price paying 23.9 btc, he would control (if memory serves) 1% of the 1% f.derp stake in the origial coinbase. that'd entitle him to 0.01% of the value of 50/350 parts in the coinbase ipo, which would come to
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 5000000000×50÷350×0.0001
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 5000000000*50/350*0.0001
gribble: 71428.5714286
mircea_popescu: 71k usd is a great return for a 24 btc investment,
asciilifeform: (yes, mircea_popescu would probably point out that it is not a cannon, but a heavy machine-gun.)
mircea_popescu: provided coinbase goes to 5bn while btc stays under
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 71428.5714286 / 23.9
gribble: 2988.64315601
mircea_popescu: otherwise, if coinbase opens for a mkt cap of 250mn in two years (accounting for inflation, basically)...
mircea_popescu: anyway, the utter chilling of d.* trade past while shows kinda plainly where that ship's going, imo.
jurov: i see
mircea_popescu: obv this is just napkin calcs, a definitive version'd come out once that unicorn stomps its foot.
mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net << remarkably unsticky, dat social media "traffic"
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1z30vvN )
jurov: oh and thx for shedding the light on d.cbse
assbot: Bitcoin Company Coinbase Raising New Investment at $400 Million Valuation | Re/code ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ4Wap )
mircea_popescu: basically, they're trying for a usg mpex. which... hey, fine, have fun trying.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, yeah i think it was bb that said we'd be lucky to turn 1% of it into reg readers
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 7D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 30D: 0.000206 / 0.00020657 / 0.000207 (1750 shares, 0.36 BTC)
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: they're trying for a usg mpex. << More like Reddit MPEX
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller no.
cazalla: i thought it was a cardinal sin for it to be called anything other than MPEx? :P
thestringpuller: although coinbase is a part of the waterfall only derps utilize it.
mircea_popescu: well, horowitz and the rest of the policy vehicles are on board, so.
thestringpuller: this doesn't mean the customer base is anything other than homo redditicus
thestringpuller: although MPex has it's idiots (see: http://trilema.com/2013/because-most-people-are-idiots-in-spite-of-never-manning-up-and-admitting-to-it/) don't think it's near the same percentages as coinbase users
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important in this discussion.
mircea_popescu: and incidentally that must be a typo, 1.9mn users 2.1mn accounts. more like 190k.
mircea_popescu: seems improbable even that many actually sent the ridoinculous "kyc" paperwork.
mircea_popescu: cazalla the "usg mpex" comment was chiefly because there's no conceivable need a webwallet operator could have for even 1mn.
mircea_popescu: somewhat mirroring the "mpex is worth a billion dollars ?!?!?!" thing.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important << I don't but the inevitabilibty of such an endeavor (i.e. http://qntra.net/2015/02/us-political-crisis-may-impoverish-homeland-security-department/#comment-11399), doesn't seem like a good thing
mircea_popescu: mebbe so.
thestringpuller: particularly with "those people" involved
mircea_popescu: im moreover curious if they're going to actually try and rescue the scam foundation or just make a new and "real" one.
mircea_popescu: kinda win-win situation, if they try to rescue the scam foundation they will fail, if they don't you know we scare them.
thestringpuller: what if they just let foundation die and then try again?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the only "people involved" by now are horowitz and the us fed.
thestringpuller: there is no endgame for them launching a foundation.
thestringpuller: or resucing existing one
asciilifeform: if there's one thing we 'know' about the undead, it is that they can walk indefinitely until physically scattered
asciilifeform: into smallish pieces
asciilifeform: consider the 'silent circle' and 'redphone' crap by the subverted zimmerman
asciilifeform: anal opening a mile wide is found? no matter, carries on exactly as before.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: we also know undead are more "effective" when there are lots of them.
assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice how none of the coverage included a "this C round utterly dilutes naive investors from the previous B and A rounds"
mircea_popescu: heck, the B round's not even mentioned AT ALL.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because that's SOP !
asciilifeform: also sop
asciilifeform: that'd be like coverage of an assassination describing the exact mechanical workings of the rifle
mircea_popescu: yeah well...
asciilifeform: 'and then the hammer hit the firing pin, and the...'
mircea_popescu: so some derp on reddit wanted to know "why do we even want to kill banks then" in the blockchain subversion debate.
mircea_popescu: well... this is why : so this sort of shit stops washing.
mircea_popescu: not so that random redditard can buy his porn for 0 fees.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.0003979 = 15.4584 BTC [+]
assbot: And then she went splat! on the asphalt. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ8Cck )
asciilifeform: 'why spent time with roaches ?'
mircea_popescu: i eat them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37739 @ 0.00040159 = 15.1556 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: chinese school, i see.
assbot: F.MPIF February 2015 trading statement - serialized delusions ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZbhmt )
cazalla: mircea_popescu, for sake of thestringpuller and mine private conversation, have you ever bedded a north korean woman?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70700 @ 0.00038261 = 27.0505 BTC [-] {2}
gabriel_laddel: !s my face is a pancake
assbot: 1 results for 'my face is a pancake' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=my+face+is+a+pancake
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35550 @ 0.00040421 = 14.3697 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> very basic maths << so much so that even i did them in 'uni'
ben_vulpes: there is a reason i call this kind of document torture.
ben_vulpes: i could make these things.
ben_vulpes: but...
ben_vulpes: "one year, no distractions."
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: betcha one could do considerably better - from first principles - with modern tech
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the rocket described in the book is older than i am
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the originals didn't even contain microprocessor.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and does one even need a rocket against a rotating-wing machine, or would a swarm of multicopters suffice.
asciilifeform: (disposable, of course)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: well yes, improvements in performance and reductions in cost exercises for not even terribly alert reader.
ben_vulpes: anyways, armsmithing for the next engagements is terribly interesting and entirely impossible to do from where i am.
ben_vulpes: those who do in these parts - aren't interested in novel strategies or applications of commodity technology
asciilifeform: can still think.
ben_vulpes: dream.
asciilifeform: and write down for the ones who make it out alive.
ben_vulpes: these designs have value.
ben_vulpes: the *real* value though, is in the strategist given free reign to be creative.
assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 18:16:06; mircea_popescu: in any case, strategically speaking, it will be a lot easier, cheaper and blood-economical to unseat the fiat atrocity supporting the welfare state by destroying the "industrial" paradigm.
asciilifeform: similar discussion in old thread
asciilifeform: the rocket, just as the modern ic, was designed by and for industrial system.
asciilifeform: that is, to be produced en masse via the traditional processes for manufactured goods
asciilifeform: the opposite does not (yet) exist
BingoBoingo: Time to practice winding your own motors!
asciilifeform: one of the strongest levers of the 20th century totalitarian mega-state is air power
asciilifeform: against which there is no low-cost unindustrial counter.
ben_vulpes: monofilament's pretty low cost.
asciilifeform: if such a thing were to exist - major problems for the owners of jet-propelled statal enforcement.
ben_vulpes: not unindustrial, though.
asciilifeform: see also,
asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb
assbot: 12 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb
asciilifeform: (orwell's basic primer on the subject)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: http://copenhagensuborbitals.com/ << what about these d00ds?
thestringpuller: i thought other big cost in rocket was d00ds in black suits showin' up and shuttin down the studio
thestringpuller: enough bezzles makes them shoo tho
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: orthogonal.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it's either a usg-controlled semi-scam, or doomed to be suppressed
asciilifeform: but in both cases entirely not what i was speaking of
asciilifeform: nobody is ever building any of what is pictured on that page on anything other than a fleet-of-mazeratis budget
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00040618 = 17.7704 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: moreover, a largely useless project.
ben_vulpes: motor aside.
asciilifeform: chumpatronics with physical props.
ben_vulpes: submarine was more useful.
ben_vulpes: eh, it's just some guys having fun.
ben_vulpes: what of it.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i actually found the 'igla' article while looking for... the battery.
asciilifeform: there are certain methods of making a battery that are not used in modern consumer types
asciilifeform: single-shot and extremely expensive
ben_vulpes: i'm more interested in single-shot and extremely cheap.
ben_vulpes giving the whole armsmithing game away for some reason
asciilifeform: but just such a battery could make the difference between an unmanned flying machine that can deliver $thing between point a and b, say
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: you drink bottled water don't you :P
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: nope.
ben_vulpes: ;;google Bull Run
gribble: The Battle of Bull Run Summary & Facts | Civilwar.org: <http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/bullrun.html>; Bullrun: <http://bullrun.com/>; First Battle of Bull Run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Bull_Run>
ben_vulpes: ;;google bull run reservoir
gribble: Bull Run River (Oregon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Run_River_(Oregon)>; Bull Run Watershed | The City of Portland, Oregon: <https://www.portlandoregon.gov/water/29784>; Portland's Water System | The City of Portland, Oregon: <https://www.portlandoregon.gov/water/48904>
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if the thing's reasonably robust, a parabolic delivery trajectory should suffice.
ben_vulpes: $thing
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not everything likes travelling via icbm
ben_vulpes: tough cookies.
asciilifeform: nor is a 300km accuracy cone acceptable for most cargo other than nuke
ben_vulpes: that's a pessimistic cone.
ben_vulpes: missing variable: delivery distance.
ben_vulpes: if it needs to go that far, put an ice on it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51538 @ 0.00040687 = 20.9693 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: but do share your design envelope, i'm very curious what sorts of requirements you're considering that require some crazy one-shot battery.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ever find it interesting that there are wankatronic societies like the 'amateur space' thing linked earlier, but nobody (has admitted to) sending a 100% amateur-built unmanned machine across, e.g., atlantic ?
ben_vulpes: there are the S.A. submersibles.
asciilifeform: slow, expensive, and nobody's building one in his cellar or launching from back yard.
asciilifeform: and coasts are well-patrolled in the 'civilized' world.
ben_vulpes: lol nowhere near as expensive as their payloads are valuable.
asciilifeform: we are thinking of entirely different worlds, perhaps
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'well patrolled' << i'm pretty sure that 50+ sneak through for every single one busted.
asciilifeform: they pass unmolested - and the cargo travels on, on land - at lizardhitler's pleasure.
ben_vulpes: you're familiar i'm sure with the near-disposable cessna's thrown over america's southern border, stuffed to the gills with $substance?
ben_vulpes: cessnas*
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: toy store range, toy store machine
asciilifeform: and human operator.
asciilifeform: trivially radiolocatable.
asciilifeform: a 'cessna' would be a car-sized ordinary airplane, no ?
ben_vulpes: correct.
asciilifeform: aha, was still thinking of automatics
ben_vulpes: flying below ceiling at which all objects are 'trivially' observable.
asciilifeform: smugglers landing ordinary machines in sparsely-populated desert - century-old state of the art
ben_vulpes: yes well do away with the $maxint vehicle cert process, $maxint operator training...
ben_vulpes: construction fundamentals are well understood, automatics well understood (granted by fewer people)...
ben_vulpes: i still do not see a need for this wacky battery of yours.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: mental excursion in how 'silk road' etc. - in alternate universe where folks have brains - could have worked.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: think this way: what country, on what continent, has sovereignty over... birds ?
ben_vulpes: the chinese!
asciilifeform: even the fabled chinese sparrows
asciilifeform: still flying.
ben_vulpes: remember when all the children went out after...yes.
ben_vulpes: batteries are still bogus.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15645 @ 0.00040784 = 6.3807 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: or maybe not! maybe i'm crazy.
ben_vulpes: maybe the trick is to leverage existing industrial commodity electrical motors and do something clever with the batteries.
ben_vulpes: the power to weight ratio just *always* turns me off.
BingoBoingo: * ben_vulpes giving the whole armsmithing game away for some reason << Railgun?
asciilifeform: for batteries which don't need to be 'safe' or reusable or dirt-cheap - this changes.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: that prototype never worked and has long since been consigned to my parents dustbin.
ben_vulpes: i probably didn't know enough to make it work when i attempted it.
asciilifeform: by how much, requires a very detailed study of surviving soviet literature. which i presently lack the time for. but might get back to one day
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'd rather leverage my wot for landing sites and refuelers.
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 18:23:10; ascii_field: humans-in-the-loop is what -every single person nailed by usg so far- had in common.
asciilifeform: ^ relevant thread
ben_vulpes: this is a strictly us problem, though.
ben_vulpes: the rest of the world doth not operate so insanely.
ben_vulpes: and why (why why why?!) must everything be about enraging the insane bear in the room?
asciilifeform: us includes pretty much the entire planet outside of ru and cn
ben_vulpes: you vastly overestimate their abilities.
ben_vulpes: didn't they just retain some 20k unseasoned mercs to go after a mob of kalash-equipped pashtuns?
ben_vulpes: give me a break.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: objective was controlled chaos. not to remove the particular crop of (not pashtuns)
ben_vulpes: i've yet to see them achieve one thing they set out to, in my entire life of watching them ferry soldiers across the sea.
ben_vulpes: 'gulf war' perhaps aside.
ben_vulpes: i don't buy this 'controlled chaos'. isis is a mortal threat to the us (and all client states) and they desire desperately to wipe it out.
gabriel_laddel: !s gravity well
assbot: 26 results for 'gravity well' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gravity+well
ben_vulpes: implying, gabriel_laddel?
gabriel_laddel: Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't much of the discussion in this channel based on the assumption that usg is going to fall apart?
gabriel_laddel: why, all of the sudden are they a immediate threat to a hypothetical?
ben_vulpes: this conversation is about airspace control.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: it was quite clear in '43 that third reich would fall apart
asciilifeform: but it was also clear that it would not do so quickly or without damage to surroundings
asciilifeform: and could use help
ben_vulpes: I need a primer on that period.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm not certain that a worthwhile picture can be obtained solely in english.
asciilifeform: is that a mtgox otp generator ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29400 @ 0.00039939 = 11.7421 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: (rectangular keychain, black with gold-coloured button in center, usb male)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Appears to indeed be a Yubikey
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm telling you the film is a lulzmine
mod6: who is testing a pogo currently? asciilifeform, danielpbarron and BingoBoingo?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: can you tell me why an actual snowden would have himself filmed ?
BingoBoingo: mod6: Don't have pogo
mod6: ok
asciilifeform: mod6: i have one; currently writing a netbsd kernel driv. for the nand flash
asciilifeform: well, by 'currently' meaning a few hrs./wk, sadly
mod6: hows that going anyway?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: From film it seems he was worried about "black bag" and in the event wanted martyrdom.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: conveniently carried (red) bag?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "Privacy Hood" he called it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.0003989 = 8.8955 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Used to keep lizard in the room from watching him type
asciilifeform: why would anyone use a device such as 'yubikey' for access to a man-portable machine ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32399 @ 0.00038251 = 12.3929 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: because... pro idiotas
BingoBoingo: Perhaps he doesn't trust his brain to "brainwallet" strong passwords
BingoBoingo: Yubikeys have been used to store fixed long passwords for local use. Just works like a USB keyboard in that case. Just...
BingoBoingo: The Man Portable machine has a keyboard
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if such a thing were to exist - major problems << sure it exists. it's how the us navy lost china sea.
mircea_popescu: "you can always make a cheaper rocket"
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> us includes pretty much the entire planet outside of ru and cn << this is ridoinculous.
mircea_popescu: us doesn't even include fucking nebraska.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> i don't buy this 'controlled chaos'. isis is a mortal threat << more importantly, isis EXISTS because it was born out of the *previous* iteration of "we didn't really get our asses handed to us like little girls, we were really AIMING to be face down, feet in the air"
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> gabriel_laddel: it was quite clear in '43 that third reich would fall apart << is this some bit of original research ?
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall granpa churchill spinning some prime yarn bout how "and once england is defeated our realms across the sea will carry on without us"
jurov: lol i remembered one denizen of Golden Lane in Prague Castle.
jurov: She was a soothsayer and prophesied a fall of the Third reich
jurov: Was taken by getapo in '43.
jurov: *gestapo
jurov: ^ dat research
mircea_popescu: up until leningrad it was not at all clear the reich will ever end, especially not from outside.
mircea_popescu: certainly not to stalin.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, i just ingested a quart of the world's best icecream. BEST you hear me ?
mircea_popescu: i'm burping deliciousness now.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: that sposed to make us grape jelly?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00040543 = 10.6223 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42537 @ 0.00041077 = 17.4729 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20970 @ 0.00040543 = 8.5019 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53781 @ 0.00040963 = 22.0303 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.00041204 = 15.7811 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25600 @ 0.0004127 = 10.5651 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00040963 = 3.359 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.5 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $450 before 31st Mar" http://bitbet.us/bet/1113/ Odds: 21(Y):79(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 13.9553 BTC. Current weight: 37,208.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.5 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $413 before Songkran" http://bitbet.us/bet/1122/ Odds: 40(Y):60(N) by coin, 36(Y):64(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.3 BTC. Current weight: 84,017.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42125 @ 0.0004139 = 17.4355 BTC [+] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.22448973 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 27.15568201 BTC. Current weight: 78,806.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.12804235 BTC for No on "BTC to top $413 before Songkran" http://bitbet.us/bet/1122/ Odds: 32(Y):68(N) by coin, 29(Y):71(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.42804235 BTC. Current weight: 84,000.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2.02020202 BTC for No on "BTC to top $450 before 31st Mar" http://bitbet.us/bet/1113/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 15.97550202 BTC. Current weight: 37,192.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29162 @ 0.00040963 = 11.9456 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $413 before Songkran" http://bitbet.us/bet/1122/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 10.42804235 BTC. Current weight: 83,974.
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.03030303 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 32.18598504 BTC. Current weight: 78,786.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 32.18598504 BTC. Current weight: 78,786.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1108/ Odds: 7(Y):93(N) by coin, 11(Y):89(N) by weight. Total bet: 26.43707636 BTC. Current weight: 29,196.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "BTC to top $450 before 31st Mar" http://bitbet.us/bet/1113/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 17.97550202 BTC. Current weight: 37,170.
ben_vulpes: why do people do that?
ben_vulpes: now that person's oddsmaking choices are totally obvious
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5150 @ 0.00040963 = 2.1096 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16406 @ 0.00041449 = 6.8001 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: '43: stalingrad
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: us navy... china sea... cheaper rocker << line of thought was about rocket (or equiv.) that the 'next joe stack' can build. rather then chinese navy.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44800 @ 0.00041873 = 18.7591 BTC [+]
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